Where will Charles Barkley go next? Is Tom Brady really worth $375 million behind the microphone? Plus, the tectonic shift of sports media. Watch!
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00:00The sports media landscape is undergoing a tectonic shift at the moment, away from traditional
00:06broadcast networks towards streaming, with big tech leading the way and some big dollars
00:11following.
00:12And everybody wants a piece of two of the biggest stars on TV today.
00:17Front Office Sports is at the center of all of that there.
00:20Dan, you hosted the leaders from ESPN, ABC, YouTube, and the most opinionated man on television
00:26today.
00:27We're going to get into all that.
00:28Let's take a look at that dynamic, though, between broadcast and streaming.
00:31What did you learn from the biggest leaders in the media space?
00:34Yeah, we started the day with Berg Magnus, who's head of programming at ESPN.
00:37And then after that, we talked to Mark Lazarus at NBC, the chairman of NBCUniversal.
00:41Of course, NBC coming off a mega Olympics.
00:44So as we were hanging out in the green room, everyone was going up to Lazarus saying, congrats,
00:48congratulations, which must be nice.
00:49What I thought was interesting was I asked him, of course, about the crowding into the
00:53room of streamers.
00:54There's Amazon, there's Netflix.
00:56Later in the day, we spoke to YouTube.
00:58And what he said was, we still have a big advantage over those guys because of the broadcast
01:01component.
01:02And I thought that was interesting because for all the talk about cord cutting and everything
01:05is heading online, you know, an NBC still has a major advantage.
01:09NBC and Disney are really the only names that have cable broadcast digital.
01:13And Peacock has seen huge growth.
01:15So as we continue to see the tech guys try to get rights, someone like an NBC still wields
01:19a lot of power because they say, you know, yes, there's Peacock, but there's also TV
01:23where we have a huge audience.
01:24I'm curious, though, with big tech, these are multi trillion dollar companies.
01:28At some point, will the league say numbers are nice?
01:32We want the cash.
01:33Right.
01:34And they cannot compete in that regard.
01:35I think it's an easy prediction.
01:37Maybe it takes five, 10, even 15 years.
01:39What I like to say is we're kind of living through this transition period.
01:42It's almost awkward, right?
01:43Like everyone knows that the future is going to be you can completely cut the cord and
01:47you can just get everything you want on streaming.
01:49But we're not quite there yet.
01:51Like a lot of people in the country, depending on what city you live in.
01:53If you need to see your MLB team, if you need to see your NHL team that you're a loyalist
01:57of, you have to get one of the RSNs.
02:00And it's kind of this long interim transition.
02:02And we're all trying to look in that crystal ball and see what it'll be like in 15 years
02:05when we can fully transition away.
02:08But you still need cable in many in many cases, still need broadcast.
02:11And in some cases, you can actually use rabbit ears.
02:14You've got Amazon, Netflix and Apple rabbit ears.
02:18How did that come into the conversation?
02:19Yeah.
02:20Brian Lawler, I think of Scripps is the one who mentioned that.
02:24And again, there are sports that are still endemic to a television station.
02:28By the way, this is what everyone talks about.
02:29Major League Baseball, MLB probably in the long term needs to get everything under its
02:33own umbrella because it's a mess right now.
02:35Some teams own their RSN like the Yankees and Yes Network.
02:38The Mets don't.
02:40Some teams have to have some kind of fragmented deal.
02:43But all that matters is for the consumer, where can I see every single game?
02:46What we all hope for is just tell me how much I need to pay to see my teams out of market.
02:51But that's the whole problem is these the way these deals are structured and have been
02:54for decades is you have to show the local in-market games on the local channel and then
02:59out of market in the NFL.
03:00You get something like Sunday Ticket with MLB, you get MLB TV.
03:04But there are all kinds of little distinctions and caveats and you can't see this game because
03:07of this reason.
03:08And hence bunny ears.
03:09All right.
03:10Let's talk about one of the biggest stars in sports media today.
03:12He's Stephen A. Smith.
03:13He spoke for two front office on Tuesday.
03:16His deal is up next year.
03:18How important is Stephen a not just ESPN?
03:20Is it Disney?
03:21And what type of numbers might he come at?
03:23Yeah, I will say, you know, he's the loudest voice in the room.
03:27Just this morning, he tweeted something about he was voted most annoying person in sports
03:30media and he celebrated that.
03:31And a lot of people roll their eyes and they go, Stephen A. Stephen A. But even just the
03:35minute he walks into the room or walks onto the stage, there's an energy change.
03:38He turns it on and he is as successful as he is for a reason.
03:42He arguably ushered in this embrace debate era at ESPN, the era of the take.
03:47He knows what he's doing.
03:48And he had a quote on there that's like, why shouldn't I be a capitalist?
03:51I've been number one for 12 years.
03:52Why shouldn't I get paid?
03:54And later in the day, we had Jay Williams, who's, you know, former Duke star, also an
03:57ESPN voice.
03:58And he said, Stephen A. deserves to get paid.
04:00Now what's reported is ESPN has offered him 18 million a year.
04:04That alone, you say, how could that not be enough?
04:06It's not enough.
04:07Stephen A. wants 25 million a year.
04:09And what he said when we asked him point blank, what's the current situation?
04:12Can you give us any update?
04:13He goes, I got nothing else to say.
04:15They made an offer.
04:16We countered and we're waiting.
04:18And what I've heard from sources is, you know, a lot of people in media have talked
04:20about it.
04:21Like they're close.
04:22They're close.
04:23What I've heard is they're not that close.
04:24You know, we're still early in the discussions here.
04:26So the question is going to be, what if they say, look, we're not going above 20 million.
04:29Take her to leave it.
04:30It's the highest we're paying anyone.
04:31Even with McAfee out there and Nick Saban, you know, is he really going to leave ESPN?
04:36We've seen some people do it.
04:37We've seen some people do it and have success.
04:39But mostly I find that when people leave the mothership in Bristol, they're never quite
04:43as big as they were than when they were with ESPN.
04:45It's like Tucker Carlson leaving Fox News.
04:48I mean, I hate to make that comparison, but when you leave that type of megaphone, it's
04:54difficult to ever find that type of relevance.
04:56Charles Barkley is another guy whose contract is up because TNT owned by Warner Brothers
05:01loses the NBA after next year.
05:04Everyone in the business is clamoring for Charles.
05:07The bidding has begun.
05:08Where does he end up?
05:10What type of dollars?
05:11Yeah.
05:12Unsurprisingly, Berg Magnus said, boy, we'd love to have him.
05:14Then I asked Mark Lazarus of NBC.
05:16He said, we'd love to have him.
05:18What people suggest for Charles at this point is he should just treat himself like his own
05:23asset and go shop to the highest bidder.
05:25Why wouldn't he go to an Amazon?
05:27Why wouldn't he go to a even a Netflix?
05:29The problem is the beauty of that TNT show inside the NBA is the whole crew.
05:34Like, yes, Barkley is is the biggest, but there's Shaq.
05:37There's Kenny.
05:38I mean, there's Ernie.
05:39They are really, really funny.
05:40They're really good.
05:41Everyone's sad.
05:42That's going to be going away.
05:43They do have one more year.
05:45What he has said for now is that he's actually going to stay with TNT, said, I'm loyal to
05:48TNT.
05:49And it's like, OK, he can say whatever he wants.
05:50I mean, he also said six months ago that he was going to retire after his TNT deal was
05:54up.
05:55Now he said, I'm not going to retire.
05:56So nothing, he says, really matters in the long term.
05:57He can say whatever he wants.
05:59We're talking 30 million as well with him.
06:01That's a hard one.
06:02That's a hard one to predict.
06:03I'm not sure he'd get as much as Stephen A. Actually, I mean, a Stephen A is doing so
06:07many different things.
06:08He's got the radio show, the podcast, multiple TV shows.
06:10First take.
06:11It's an empire now.
06:12He's the executive producer and owner of his show, his IP, which I think is smart.
06:15Barkley, I don't know if you divorce him from the rest of those guys.
06:19I don't know how many millions that is.
06:21I don't think it's Stephen A level, but everyone would love to have him.
06:24Barkley makes a Peyton Manning like move because he doesn't want to work that hard.
06:27And he can do a broadcast from his basement that would probably draw millions of eyeballs.
06:31That's right.
06:32Wouldn't rule that out.
06:33A lot of talk about the Manning cast, by the way, all day.
06:35People citing that at our conference as an example of the new way you do things.
06:39It doesn't look so fancy.
06:40They're just in a basement or whatever.
06:41It's on YouTube.
06:42You can broadcast that, simulcast that.
06:44And it's about the loyalists who want to watch a game with the Mannings in their rear.
06:47There will be a Manning cast Super Bowl in 2027 on ESPN.
06:52Not much talk about, I think, the most interesting media story that in terms of personality,
06:57Tom Brady made his debut over the weekend.
06:59I didn't have high hopes.
07:01I think I was spot on.
07:02It was just OK.
07:03It is not the quarterback.
07:04He's the goat.
07:05He is not that in the booth.
07:07What are you hearing?
07:08Well, first of all, you know, and I'm I'm from Boston, so I'm a huge Patriots fan.
07:10I'm a fan of Tom Brady.
07:11But I always said, like, why do people assume that just because someone was a great football
07:14player, they'll be great on TV?
07:16Some of them, yes.
07:17But I think people hope for some kind of Romo debut where the minute Romo went on, people
07:21went, wow, he's incredible.
07:22He's having so much fun.
07:23He's having so much energy.
07:24That's not really Tom Brady.
07:25Usually, he's very kind of rehearsed and careful and groomed by PR.
07:29I mean, some people wonder, can he get to the point of that natural kind of organic
07:35energy, but also give him a second.
07:37Right.
07:38I mean, give him a second.
07:39It's been one game.
07:41Give him a second.
07:42I did ask Jay Williams on stage, who's been at ESPN since 2008.
07:44And what he said was, I've hung out with Tom Brady and I know there's a real Tom Brady
07:47there who is funny and fascinating and lively and organic.
07:50So I'd like to see, will we get that Brady on camera?
07:53We haven't yet.
07:54You're right.
07:55But he needs to settle in.
07:56And he was probably pretty, you know, stiff and nervous.
07:58And he knows tons of pressure on him.
07:59Everyone's going to analyze every second of everything he does, his performance.
08:03There was one moment where he predicted something that should happen on field and then it did
08:06happen immediately.
08:07And those are the moments that people go, OK, he's smart.
08:09He sees it.
08:10Give him a second.
08:11Right.
08:12Another prediction.
08:13His ownership deal with the Raiders allows him to escape this broadcasting deal because
08:18he won't be allowed in production meetings if he becomes an owner.
08:21Again, another prediction.
08:22I like that.
08:23YouTube snagged a seven year, $14 billion deal to bring in NFL Sunday ticket.
08:28How has it changed YouTube?
08:30Yeah, they've been very careful and cautious about sharing exactly the numbers we all want,
08:35which is here are the Sunday ticket subscribers that we've gained who weren't subscribing
08:39to YouTube TV otherwise.
08:40So here's directly a price tag on how much of a boost it's been to YouTube TV.
08:44They're not giving that.
08:45What we do know, though, is, look, it was a really fascinating bidding war for Sunday
08:48ticket that other tech giants were involved in.
08:50There were reports Netflix wanted in, there were reports Apple wanted in.
08:53Those companies bowed out.
08:55By the way, DirecTV famously lost money always on Sunday ticket.
08:58So can YouTube TV make this a value add where their subscriber numbers go up big?
09:03They're at eight million, which compare that to Peacock, 33 million kind of seems small.
09:07But then again, it's a digital only.
09:09So depends what context, eight million subscribers to YouTube TV.
09:12And what they've said is people act like getting Sunday ticket was the was the first step.
09:16And now we're going to go after tons of live sports rights.
09:18It's the opposite.
09:19It was the culmination of all the years we've put in with NFL content on YouTube main.
09:24And what I translated that to mean is you're not going to see us go after any other big
09:28live sports rights deals.
09:30This was about our relationship with the NFL.
09:32It's kind of an end point.
09:33And it's a value add to try to get more people to YouTube TV.
09:36But the 45 percent growth in people watching sports stuff on YouTube was very interesting
09:42to me.
09:43I mean, sports content is still the main driver of the living room, as they say.
09:45Yeah.
09:46Creators really drive YouTube, as they said.
09:48Final question.
09:49What's the story that drives 25?
09:52And it's going to be interesting because all the biggest rights are kind of spoken for
09:55now.
09:56You know, so now people are to be looking at these kind of smaller leagues.
09:59What happens with an NWSL, the National Women's Soccer League?
10:02What happens with you know, you've got PLL, which is Premier Lacrosse that went from being
10:05on NBC's streaming app to ESPN plus?
10:09What happens when ESPN has ESPN flagship and does something like a venue launch?
10:13That's going to be a big story.
10:14We asked a lot of people yesterday.
10:16Venue is this live pay TV bundle that was a, you know, triumvirate joint venture between
10:20Disney Fox Warner Brothers and Fubo came along, tiny Fubo, and said, we think this seems monopolistic
10:27and unfair and we're going to sue for an injunction.
10:29And they got the temporary injunction.
10:32So they won that case.
10:33Now, venue is appealing, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if Disney just backs
10:36out of that and says, wait a minute, we didn't know we were getting into here.
10:39This isn't the hill we want to die on, especially when Disney is more focused on the ESPN flagship
10:44app that's going to stream ESPN TV channel.
10:47So does venue ever launch?
10:49I don't think so.
10:50I don't think so either.
10:51We agree on that.