(8:29:24) Work Stream 1:5

Slanderous Streams
Slanderous Streams
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00:10:48Oh, uh, by the way subscriber alerts are now off.
00:10:50be a little thing on the screen when someone subscribes anymore.
00:11:50Yeah, I had to choose between either turn off subscriber notifications or just stop
00:12:01being able to hear the notifications because that actually did damage to my ears.
00:12:20The fact that it continued even after I'd already asked the person to stop, like...
00:12:50Well, I think I'm just going to have to expect it. I'm just going to have to expect a certain level of casual disrespect.
00:13:20I don't know.
00:13:50The realist says, well, it's the Internet, so...
00:14:07The Internet doesn't magically make people behave like this. They were always like this.
00:14:14See, I think one thing that is... Where is it?
00:14:32People always say, you know, what's done damage to this generation or whatnot?
00:14:37I think the one thing that did the most damage was this.
00:14:42They released this fucking thing that they called the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory,
00:14:47which is basically you take a normal person, you give them anonymity plus an audience, and you get a total fuckwad.
00:14:54And the truth of the matter is, no. That person was always a fuckwad.
00:15:03This idea that, like, the anonymity of the Internet is some kind of corrupting influence isn't real.
00:15:17If you're a fuckwad online, you're a fuckwad offline, too.
00:15:26Okay.
00:15:57Hmm, hmm, hmm.
00:16:09I have the damage on your ears as impermanent. Eh, it shouldn't be.
00:16:15For those wondering, for those who weren't here last time, last time we had somebody basically gift 32 subs.
00:16:26Now, I have the alert box notifications. They play through my headset, and they play very loud so I don't miss them,
00:16:34which is fine when it's, like, the occasional follow or the occasional donation or the occasional sub.
00:16:40But recently, we had this problem of, like, people would gift, like, 10 subs at a time,
00:16:47which would cause them all to rattle off right in my ear rapid fire.
00:16:52That wasn't good.
00:16:55And last stream, we had somebody do 32 of the damn things, until eventually I had to just shut the...
00:17:02And, like, they kept doing it even after I said, dude, stop. Like, that's enough.
00:17:07Ah. Hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm.
00:17:12I can't imagine a streamer, having a streamer say, I appreciate the support, but please stop the subscriber spam.
00:17:16It hurts my ears. And deciding to just ignore that. It just comes across as acting malicious in a way that makes a streamer look bad.
00:17:22Yeah, that's exactly what it is.
00:17:26Like, I think if a streamer asks you not to do something, and then you go and do it anyway, you are an unbelievable cunt.
00:17:38Like, it is so easy. It costs absolutely nothing to just not do that shit.
00:17:48It blasts it 10 times when someone gifts that many?
00:17:51Yeah, blast them one after another. And like I said, the alert is very loud.
00:17:54And once in a while that's fine, but that kind of sustained...
00:17:57That kind of... Those kind of sustained notifications are like...
00:18:01Yeah, that... That wasn't good.
00:18:06It also doesn't... It's also the fact that when that kind of noise is going off, I can't work.
00:18:12And when it's going off one after another after another, I have to just sit there and not do anything until it stops.
00:18:24And like, a lot of people do it because it's like, oh, well, I want to support you.
00:18:33But like, the donation button is down there.
00:18:35Like, Amazon... I don't think people really appreciate this.
00:18:38Amazon takes a large revenue share on Twitch.
00:18:42It's the same with super chats in YouTube.
00:18:45Like, Amazon takes a huge amount of it.
00:18:47And I've said this multiple times, and it doesn't get through to people.
00:18:54On our end, it just played it one time per batch.
00:19:00No, it played them one after another after another.
00:19:02I saw it on your end.
00:19:04Yeah, just...
00:19:22And just in general, I have no patience for anyone who has to be told twice.
00:19:32Like...
00:19:49The people were surprised by this one.
00:19:51That's a common tactic.
00:19:52It was very strange to witness.
00:19:53No, the worst part is like, they're surprised by it.
00:19:57They're surprised to learn that that's how revenue sharing works.
00:20:01And then they keep doing it.
00:20:05It's like, you know, guys, oh, I just want to support...
00:20:08It's like, I just want to support you.
00:20:09Well, you'd support me a lot better if you used the donate button instead of gifting subs or super chats.
00:20:14And they just don't.
00:20:19I don't get it.
00:20:22I literally do not get it.
00:20:28It was annoying and disrupting.
00:20:29I can't imagine how worse it was on your end.
00:20:31Yeah.
00:20:43Even if what you're doing is positive, that's just being a dick.
00:20:46Yeah.
00:20:49I had to tell the same person when I was last streaming on YouTube.
00:20:52Like, okay, you're spending way too much money on super chats.
00:20:55Enough.
00:20:56And they kept doing it.
00:20:57And I had to just put them in timeout.
00:21:20So I've now turned off the streaming.
00:21:22I've turned off the, you know, are they the same?
00:21:25Probably.
00:21:26I've now turned off the streaming notifications.
00:21:28And I've turned off the subscriber notification.
00:21:33So the only notification that shows up is donations now.
00:21:36No followers, no subs, no bits, none of that.
00:21:59People abused it, so it got taken away.
00:22:01It's not even a matter of, like, people abused it.
00:22:03It's like, if I have to tell you twice, it's gone.
00:22:07If I ask you to stop doing something and you keep doing it,
00:22:10I'm going to take away the thing that I asked you to stop doing.
00:22:18I don't have, look, I'm not a very strict person.
00:22:21I have literally one rule.
00:22:23Don't do something that I asked you to stop doing.
00:22:25That's literally it.
00:22:28That is the one rule for the fucking stream.
00:22:30Aside from just the usual don't be a bigot.
00:22:46So simple directions, yep.
00:22:48It's just logical cause and effect.
00:23:17Hmm.
00:23:20What are we working on?
00:23:23The idea popped into my head this morning.
00:23:25It's basically about game dialogue.
00:23:29Which I know is just going to draw the absolute worst kind of assholes, but.
00:23:47Hmm.
00:24:16Hmm.
00:24:35Hmm.
00:25:04Hmm.
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00:27:28Hmmm.
00:27:29Hmmm.
00:27:30Hmm.
00:27:31Mhmm.
00:27:32Now, hang on.
00:27:44Hang on.
00:27:49Not even the garbage genre?
00:27:50No!
00:27:51A really bad defense of certain, of like, bad dialogue that I hear a lot of people make
00:28:07is like when you complain about Pokemon games and it's like, um, they're JRPGs, hello?
00:28:16By the way, don't you hate that when people try to make a rebuttal and frame it like a
00:28:19question? It's like, yeah, they're JRPGs, and you know what? Some JRPGs are actually
00:28:27good. I avoid certain kinds of games, namely Undertale likes, oh god. Undertale is actually
00:28:42very tightly written because it's made by somebody who can write. I think like a lot
00:28:48of, uh, it's just become kind of an expected formula at this point, I'm gonna put this
00:28:52in here, that certain genres of games, well, they have a lot of dialogue. Therefore, people
00:28:58go in and they start making them and they're like, well, I need to have a lot of dialogue.
00:29:04And so they write in a way that creates way more dialogue than necessary. It's this really
00:29:09awful circular Ouroboros.
00:29:40Most JRPGs are, how do you put it, melodramatic think pieces that say nothing and mean nothing.
00:29:44When it comes to anybody saying like, well, they're JRPGs and they're just like that,
00:29:50I always say Kingdom Hearts is not like that argument over. Kingdom Hearts is the ultimate
00:29:57win card in any of these things. Like, well, you can have skippable dialogue. You can't
00:30:02skip the cut scenes in a JRPG because the story is why you're there. Kingdom Hearts
00:30:05lets you skip the cut scenes. So shut the fuck up.
00:30:11Terrible Moffat monologues when I came here for the Pokemon battles. Oh God, the monologuing.
00:30:35Simulators, visual novels, Pokemon, JRPGs can all be tightly written. They can be written
00:30:39well and succinctly. You just have to have an author that doesn't suck at their job.
00:30:43I was just thinking about your thesis on how the more complex the game story is, the less
00:30:47useful a silent protagonist would be. Some types of games can afford having a silent
00:30:51protagonist like Skyrim, but not something like Mass Effect with the tension and relationships
00:30:54between the characters make the story. Yep. The problem is a lot of people stick to the
00:30:59silent protagonist because like, it's not, it's not that they think it would make their
00:31:03story better, it's because it's tradition.
00:31:33The more time spent not being a game, the worse it is. I think you mean blank slate
00:31:53per tag. No, they mean silent per tag. The more time spent not being a game, the worse
00:32:02it is. But even this isn't a universal truth. A universal truth. A game can have basically,
00:32:14can have more dialogue and gameplay and gameplay and people and have people and have nobody
00:32:19complain and have nobody complain about it. Complain about it while a game with leh.
00:32:36From the audience. Now, now there is a subset of people, a subset of people, now there is
00:32:41a subset of people who think, who think disliking dialogue at all, dialogue at all means, at
00:32:47all means you can't read. Dialogue at all means you can't read and are impatient and
00:32:53have no attention span. Have no attention span. I attention span. I call those people
00:32:58cunts. Wait, no, I can't say cunt on YouTube, can I?
00:33:14Done. So it's not punching enough.
00:33:44Anyone who tries to act like not liking a part of a game is an inherent failure on you is deeply
00:34:00unserious and shouldn't be listened to. You can dislike a game for any, for any reason you want,
00:34:09reason you want. It's your time and money. It's your time and money.
00:34:15You can dislike a game for any reason you want. It's your time and money.
00:34:31And you don't owe it to people, owe it to people, uh, to people to stick with something,
00:34:36to stick with something you aren't having fun with.
00:34:42Can you say the same thing if you didn't see about TV shows? Yeah, what of it?
00:34:54Mm.
00:35:04Some people will bitch and moan and bitch and moan and scream at you and scream at you,
00:35:10at you if you drop a, if you drop a game or any media, a game or any media, media really,
00:35:17really that you aren't having fun with, that you aren't having fun with,
00:35:20fun with, but that's a, but that's an inherent failing on them.
00:35:24Failing on them taking your dislike, your dislike of something, something so in, so personally.
00:35:33Anyway.
00:35:45Anyway, I got to thinking about this, we're gonna,
00:35:48while making the Pokemon video, Pokemon video, where some,
00:35:52where some of the games, where some of the games, but I didn't really have them.
00:36:07I got to thinking about this while making the Pokemon video,
00:36:09where some of the games had a story that had me on the edge of my seat,
00:36:12on the edge of my seat, edge of my seat, laugh, seat and laughing my ass off,
00:36:18my ass off, while other games, while other games had me basically,
00:36:22had me begging for a skip dialogue button to show.
00:36:29I still consider, I still consider, I can still consider Ruby and Sapphire to be based,
00:36:33Sapphire to be the best written, the best written games in the Pokemon series,
00:36:38in the Pokemon franchise basically, franchise, because their story,
00:36:41because their story is simultaneously, simultaneously high stakes, but also,
00:36:46but also really goofy.
00:37:01Hey, Lolo, you want to hop in with me?
00:37:11Sure. Great.
00:37:23Hello.
00:37:24Hey, everybody, thrill me.
00:37:32Both of you.
00:37:34I'm doing all right, my ears are still ringing.
00:37:38Oh, gosh.
00:37:42I've never had ears ringing that last that long, I think that needs to be a bit more serious.
00:38:00Hi, chat. Hi, everyone.
00:38:06Hi, Lex.
00:38:06I went to the emergency room, and there's like,
00:38:18there's strain on my eardrums, but it'll heal eventually.
00:38:23All right, good.
00:38:28Eventually, is it like, what, a couple of weeks or a couple of days?
00:38:32Um, eventually, it's like, I was just told it will heal.
00:38:35I don't know how long it'll take.
00:38:40In order to figure out how long it would take to heal, they would have to like,
00:38:44really get in there and get in there with like, a better camera, but
00:38:51but I was like, look, if it'll heal, I'm fine, I'll just, I'm gonna head out.
00:38:55Oh, man. Yeah, guys, you think I'd tell you to stop spamming subs if it was just mildly annoying?
00:39:05Nah, man, that shit fucking hurt.
00:39:21Man, being a content creator,
00:39:23man, being a content creator does not come with workman's comp.
00:39:27Yeah.
00:39:31Let's hope you get a swift recovery.
00:39:43Two particularly idiotic souls, both competing.
00:39:46Both competing to see, uh, to see who can destroy the world first.
00:39:54What's this a video about?
00:40:00Game dialogue.
00:40:03Oh.
00:40:08They're also utterly baffled.
00:40:10What do you mean?
00:40:11What do you mean, flooding the planet?
00:40:14What do you mean, flooding the planet will kill everything?
00:40:20What do you mean, flooding the planet will kill everyone?
00:40:24It's also a G, it's also a G, a Game Boy Advance game, a Game Boy Advance game, and game, and
00:40:30therefore, and therefore space, and how much space did a fucking, how much space did a GBA cartridge
00:40:39have?
00:40:4164 megabytes, okay.
00:40:44And therefore space, and therefore space limitations.
00:40:53Hmm.
00:41:04Hmm.
00:41:21It's also a Game Boy Advance game, and therefore space limitations meant that the games,
00:41:25the games had to, meant that the games had to make that dialogue as concise as possible.
00:41:30I don't want to spoil myself for what?
00:41:46And that the games had to make that dialogue as concise as concise as possible.
00:42:00So
00:42:30so
00:43:00so
00:43:22Where's the bus?
00:43:24What?
00:43:24Oh just, I'm talking to a couple of people in the chat, because we're talking about Maxi and
00:43:29Marchi.
00:43:54So
00:44:07the worst with this, because increased space means the characters can go on long philosophical rants
00:44:12every time you encounter them, which the player is not actually, every time you encounter them,
00:44:16and because this is a base, and because this is Pokemon, Pokemon, the player can't really,
00:44:23can't really take part in it.
00:44:27So it becomes a game of, game of standing there, standing there,
00:44:30waiting, waiting for, waiting for the character to stop talking.
00:44:45Some of those can be verbose on top of the edge.
00:44:47Yeah, it's because it's, it's now just accepted that Pokemon games have a lot of dialogue, so
00:44:52when people make fan games, they make them have a lot of dialogue.
00:44:56That's why I don't play fan games, because fan games are going to take
00:44:59the problems Pokemon has and amplify them 12-fold.
00:45:07It's a funeral dirge. Oh, is that a thing?
00:45:22Oh my god, there is an acoustic version.
00:45:38I'm gonna keep that in my back pocket.
00:45:40Insurgents and Reborn especially. Oh, I think I, one of those I remember. Hang on.
00:45:56Oh, yeah, fucking, oh no, no, that's Rejuvenation, never mind.
00:46:16I was like, one of these fan games that I know of only through like,
00:46:26watching a playthrough of it on YouTube, has the most,
00:46:30the edgiest fucking villain you will ever see in your stupid fucking life.
00:46:35Oh, I'm looking forward to this.
00:46:46It's in your DMs.
00:46:50Hold on.
00:46:54Oh my god.
00:46:59Why is one hand like the other evolution? Why, like, what's with the pentagram halo?
00:47:07Why does it have Giratina wings? Why? Just why? Why? Why?
00:47:13It's, he's got a pizza slice halo.
00:47:22What even is that symbol? Please share. I can't, I can't, it's, it's too cringe.
00:47:28It's too cringe, like.
00:47:32Oh, come on. We're a connoisseurs of cringe.
00:47:43I just love how one arm is like a fucking, like a
00:47:54pizza cutter and the other's just like a normal Gardevoir hand.
00:48:01It's time to duel.
00:48:06I hang out with Newblood on a regular basis too, you know.
00:48:09The only one who doesn't know what insurgents are, Reborn are insurgents.
00:48:14Okay, all right.
00:48:16Look at this fucking thing.
00:48:18This is the final boss of one of those, of one of these fan games.
00:48:25This, this looks like it leaped right out of Sinners.
00:48:30Oh god, yeah, totally.
00:48:32What the fuck?
00:48:36It is right here. It looks like a fucking, like, she's got a bicycle wheel.
00:48:40There's a halo.
00:48:41That's a fucking bicycle wheel.
00:48:44Why does she have a dual disc? Oh dear universe, that looks majestic.
00:48:49Majestically dumb. Ultra emo.
00:48:52I love her fucking adventure time legs.
00:48:55I love her adventure time legs.
00:49:01Oh, and the dress is torn because of course it is.
00:49:06And again, the Giratina wings.
00:49:08And just, just to really like, just sew the cherry on top.
00:49:15Oh my god, that's so funny.
00:49:23Oh god, it reminds, yeah, exactly Lisa.
00:49:25That reminds me of Angel of Darkness too.
00:49:38Reminds me of the song Angel of Darkness.
00:49:40Oh, gee, I wonder why.
00:49:44Look, I'm somebody who loves dark magic aesthetics, okay?
00:49:47Like, fucking necromancy, demon shit, like, I love that shit, but my god.
00:49:58It's Little Timmy's first OC.
00:50:00Yeah, it's Little Timmy's first OC.
00:50:03Yeah, it's Little Timmy's first OC.
00:50:21I didn't even tell you the best part.
00:50:27As you fight it, you beat it down until it's just a head.
00:50:31Of course.
00:50:34And then, and then, after the fight's over,
00:50:40it gets abandoned by its master, and then teleports itself outside of the final boss
00:50:47fortress and commits suicide.
00:50:50Oh my god.
00:50:51This is the edgiest fucking thing ever.
00:50:55I watched someone play through this on YouTube, and the whole time I was sitting there like,
00:50:59what the fuck?
00:51:04Oh my god.
00:51:11And you know what?
00:51:19It's a blood owl, god.
00:51:21That's what I cried to.
00:51:24Wait, hang on.
00:51:26No, I don't, I don't, I don't think so.
00:51:28I don't think so.
00:51:29I think, like, after this point, it's turned back into, like, a normal Banshee.
00:51:33But, like, my fucking god.
00:51:37Oh, that would have been perfect.
00:51:59So,
00:52:21please don't say that on my stream.
00:52:26Like, unlike a lot of people, I don't,
00:52:28I don't, I didn't circle around to, like, ironic enjoyment of that song.
00:52:31I think it's still really fucking stupid.
00:52:43Now, if you want, if you want, like, the fun kind of edge, I recommend,
00:52:48I recommend everyone the Sonic the Hedgehog, like, theme song.
00:52:53That is pure edge and cringe, and it's pure finery, and I love it.
00:53:07I am me.
00:53:16It's the world.
00:53:17Oh, don't do that.
00:53:18I know what that's a reference to.
00:53:20Becomes a game of standing there, waiting for the character to stop talking,
00:53:23and the actual character part of the game.
00:53:36Doesn't become apparent until the final, until the final act,
00:53:38long after the point, long after the point you've stopped caring.
00:53:50Fan games are so dang edgy sometimes.
00:53:52I just want to go on my journey with my fairy Bulbasaur.
00:53:54Think about the kind of person who makes a fan game,
00:53:57and the idea of, and, like, they really want Pokémon to be adult.
00:54:02They want Pokémon to, like, grow up with them.
00:54:06Yep.
00:54:09That's, like, classic insecurity shit.
00:54:19Yeah, it's like, honestly, for a long time, for a long time, I've just realized,
00:54:42you know what, I don't give a fucking shit if you criticize me for liking Pokémon,
00:54:47for being, for being, like, a light and fun, and, like, a fun, like, a kid's game.
00:54:51So, shut the fuck up and let me enjoy Pokémon.
00:54:55Yeah.
00:54:58It's always annoying when that kind of fan tries to ruin it for everyone else.
00:55:02Mm-hmm.
00:55:06We get it.
00:55:07Your mum laughed at you because you had a, had a, had a Pokémon, um,
00:55:12had a Pokémon-themed bedroom, all right?
00:55:14Just, like, deal with your shit somewhere else, preferably away from me.
00:55:25That will always be my biggest, biggest, um, biggest thing that grinds my gears,
00:55:30when people are, like, um, they're so insecure about what they like,
00:55:34they just make it everyone else's problem to deal with.
00:55:44So, you don't give a shit if I like a Pokémon the same way, I mean, it's only games with you.
00:55:48Yeah, like, just, cool, you like FIFA, Madden, like, good for you,
00:55:53pat on the back, like, just, if you're gonna enjoy that, enjoy that, then let me enjoy that.
00:56:14So,
00:56:24if what you're enjoying isn't annoying, isn't harming you or anyone else, go for it.
00:56:44So,
00:56:46so,
00:57:12people who make Pokémon fan games are the kind of people who brag about ratioing someone.
00:57:17Mm.
00:57:21Hmm.
00:57:45Exactly, Lisa, exactly.
00:57:52Mm.
00:57:54It's always interesting, like, I'll, like, somebody will ask me if, like, my experience
00:57:58with, like, a certain piece of media, and I'll just say, nah, I kind of fell off of it.
00:58:01It's like, oh, how far did you get?
00:58:02And I'm like, if I answer that question, you're gonna tell me,
00:58:07oh, you should have gone N plus 30, N plus 12 hours in.
00:58:14Oh, yeah, definitely.
00:58:16They want to know how far I got, so they can give me some kind of,
00:58:18so they can, like, mark a point farther than that as, like, the part where it gets good.
00:58:22Oh, you really should, you really can't have an opinion of it until you've done it for,
00:58:25like, X amount of time.
00:58:26No.
00:58:27Like, oh, you can't have an opinion on Final Fantasy XIV until you've played it for 300
00:58:31hours.
00:58:31Okay, well, one, go fuck yourself.
00:58:33And two, I think if an MMO makes you not want to keep playing,
00:58:39literally moving the goalposts, yeah, that's all that shit is.
00:58:41If an MMO, if in 20 minutes you find yourself going, yeah, I'm done, I don't want to play
00:58:47this MMO anymore, that is a, like, that's a pretty strong mark against the MMO.
00:58:56It's so weird how much these people view entertainment as work.
00:59:04Because what does that say about the time they've wasted?
00:59:06I mean, spent.
00:59:08Yeah, you've wasted.
00:59:09I mean, spent, spent, time you spent.
00:59:12Whatever you're saying there, I was just like, yeah, that's literally it.
00:59:16That's literally it, in a nutshell.
00:59:18These people have, like, wasted their time, and they're finding everything they can to
00:59:22say, no, it's, it's totally fine.
00:59:25It's totally, like, not a waste of my time on this earth.
00:59:28Yeah, it's coped.
00:59:28Other, other people basically making, like, some people just get really fucking angry
00:59:33when, uh, when people make different decisions than them, because it's basically like, well,
00:59:37if they could make that decision, what does that say about me?
00:59:40It's very deeply insecure.
00:59:42It's the same kind of people who interpret criticism of art as a personal attack against
00:59:46them.
00:59:46Like, bro, why are you so raw?
00:59:48Why are you, why are you so bitchy all the goddamn time?
00:59:52And then it's like, it's, it's, it's turned into this, like, weird, into this weird thing
00:59:57where, like, if you don't stick with a piece of media, that's a failing on you.
01:00:01Like, oh, you're lazy, or you can't read, or you just don't, like, or you're xenophobic.
01:00:12Oh, people, oh, here's the best part.
01:00:26People really get mad at me when I call the, uh, when I call the, uh, Cardcaptor's characters
01:00:31by their English names.
01:00:35Like, let me tell you, I, it was delightful watching someone clip me calling, uh, calling
01:00:41the main character Sakura, and, uh, I just see the rage from people.
01:00:53Yeah, like, look, I, I got introduced to Cardcaptor's through the, uh, through the, uh,
01:00:59through the Canadian dub.
01:01:00Uh, I read the comic.
01:01:04I put down the comic once it started getting weird.
01:01:07I will always know Cardcaptor's by the English dub.
01:01:09That's just, that's how I know the characters.
01:01:19Yeah, nobody does.
01:01:22Nobody does.
01:01:22I think I saw one person who did, and that was clearly somebody who had, like, been watching
01:01:27the, uh, subtitled version from, like, day one.
01:01:31Nobody calls it.
01:01:32Even if you watch the subtitled version, they still call him Ash.
01:01:36I'm sorry.
01:01:36I went through that with Yu-Gi-Oh, I'm gonna call him Joey.
01:01:38Oh, yeah, Joey Wheeler.
01:01:41Yeah, no, fuck it, all of y'all, that guy's name is Joey Wheeler.
01:01:44It's like, who the fuck is, who the fuck is Taichi?
01:01:47That's Tai.
01:01:48Fuck you.
01:01:52Digimon, Digimon was actually really clever making all the English names into, like, short
01:01:55form nicknames.
01:01:58It's cool.
01:02:00Yeah, I've never been, like, fully victim to that type of thing.
01:02:03Yeah, I've never been, like, fully victim to that, too, when I was watching the subtitled
01:02:07version of Sailor Moon, and I just called everyone by their Japanese names there, and
01:02:10I'm like, gee, Serena's a pretty nice name, too, and I think it fits her character just
01:02:15as well, so, yeah.
01:02:18Somebody was talking to me about Sailor Moon, and the first time I heard somebody say Usagi,
01:02:21and I was like, who?
01:02:23It's like, I thought you said you watched Sailor Moon.
01:02:25Yeah, like, who the fuck is that?
01:02:27That's the main character.
01:02:28No, that's Serena.
01:02:29It's like, oh, you watched the English version, yeah.
01:02:33Yamato into Matt was funny.
01:02:45Oh, no, it gets even better, because, like, one of the characters had a really egregious
01:02:49name change that I stick with to this day, and that was Madison Taylor.
01:02:53The, uh, like, in Cardcaptors, Sakura's best friend, it was like, she had her name straight
01:03:00up, just, was like, no, she, like, she hit the border, and immigration went, no, your
01:03:08name is Madison Taylor.
01:03:11What was her original Japanese name?
01:03:14I have to look it up, because I can't remember.
01:03:23Oh, yep, there it is.
01:03:33Now, admittedly, that is pretty extreme.
01:03:35That is pretty fucking egregious.
01:03:37Oh, yeah.
01:03:39However, I don't care what anyone says, that's still Madison.
01:03:43The German dub called Serena Bunny, but kept the names of everyone else.
01:03:55I remember someone going on a rant about Princess Tutu and going, you know, Ahiru means duck,
01:04:00right?
01:04:05Yeah, like, main character's name in Japanese is Ahiru.
01:04:09Of course, that word just literally means duck, and so in English, her name is duck.
01:04:14It's just, that's how translation works.
01:04:20People look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them that all modern, or basically,
01:04:23descended from, say, uh, um, no, I wouldn't say that.
01:04:27I would not agree with that.
01:04:28The modern anime's main problem is that it just like,
01:04:36it's like, it's made and developed, it's made for and developed by weebs.
01:04:42Yeah, I think it was like, it was something that Miyazaki said, it's like, a big problem
01:04:45with the industry is that a lot of the people in it are just fans of anime, and they don't
01:04:50have any, they don't have any creative reference point other than other anime, and as a result,
01:04:54certain ideas end up getting, like, no new ideas come in.
01:04:58It's all just the same, the same ideas constantly cannibalize one after another after another.
01:05:06Like, at least, like, 90s anime have, like, come from somewhere.
01:05:10Like, Rose of Versailles is, of course, based on the French Revolution, and they're all
01:05:13just, like, for reference from actual classical, classical French literature.
01:05:17Sailor Moon is based on, like, Greek and Roman mythology, and also that, so everything right
01:05:24down to the music is take, it's like, it can reference for something.
01:05:28The music in Sailor Moon is 17s disco.
01:05:33Oh, here's another one, and this one is entirely on, it's entirely on me, is that I keep calling
01:05:38the protagonist, I keep calling, it's like, people get on my case for calling the, for
01:05:44calling the character Utena, when her name is Utena, but I have, but pretty much since,
01:05:50since, like, I was a kid, and I first saw the title, I just read it out, and it's like,
01:05:53Revolutionary Girl Utena, and even when watching the show as a kid, and getting the correct
01:05:58pronunciation, I have always just been like, no, no.
01:06:03See, I always say when people, like, have an argument about pronunciation, like, who
01:06:07cares?
01:06:08Yeah.
01:06:09People use that as an excuse, it's like, oh, well, this is proof that you didn't watch the,
01:06:13didn't watch, you never watched the show, otherwise you'd know how to pronounce the
01:06:15main character's name.
01:06:16No, I do that deliberately.
01:06:18Like, I did that deliberately on the simple basis of, I refuse to change how I pronounce
01:06:22it for absolutely no reason.
01:06:23But now I keep doing it because I know it pisses you off.
01:06:26I'm sure it's Rayquaza, Rayquaza, that's how I always pronounce it.
01:06:39It's unforbidden, people live in different countries and have different experiences with
01:06:42language.
01:06:43Mispronouncing Pokemon names is peak comedy.
01:06:45I don't know what you're talking about, Arceus has always been how it's pronounced.
01:06:49Yeah, same.
01:06:51Well, I say Arceus because, you know, classic southern accent right here.
01:07:02Because I want to see people go, name a character Jasper, and they go Jasper.
01:07:10Herb, herb, oh yeah, I love, oh yeah, I love pronouncing that metal wrong.
01:07:17Aluminum?
01:07:18Never heard of it.
01:07:18That's aluminium.
01:07:20Yeah, that's what I say too.
01:07:24I actually do say aluminum.
01:07:27No, it's fine.
01:07:30However, I think we all know what the dumbest mispronunciation is, and nobody ever uses
01:07:37it.
01:07:37Well, one person uses it, and everyone else only ever uses it to mock that one person,
01:07:42and that's nuclear.
01:07:44Oh, yeah.
01:07:54Arceus and Giratina caused so many fights at school.
01:07:57Yeah, I heard Giratina, and I was like, no, fuck you, that's Giratina.
01:08:03Girafatina.
01:08:13How do you say nuclear wrong?
01:08:15Oh, it's Bush who did that.
01:08:16George W. Bush did that, and he was the only one who ever did that.
01:08:27Hey, man, never heard of it.
01:08:28It's Charmin.
01:08:37God, didn't, like, the Avatar fandom get really pissy whenever someone mispronounces
01:08:43Sokka or Katara's name?
01:08:49What?
01:08:50Didn't, like, the Avatar fandom get really into, like, screaming at people who pronounce
01:08:55the main character's names wrong, like Sokka?
01:08:58The movie referred to called Aang Ong.
01:09:02Actually, hang on, I think there was a reason that Shyamalan did that.
01:09:08Let me take a look here.
01:09:10Oh, my God, everyone just lost their shit.
01:09:27The actors are often criticized for mispronouncing the characters' names,
01:09:29this being ascribed to them not being familiar with the source material.
01:09:32The decision was made by Shyamalan, who felt that the original pronunciation was wrong,
01:09:36who felt that the original pronunciation was wrong,
01:09:38and that he was being true to the Asian roots of the names.
01:09:48Oh, good for him.
01:10:04Really?
01:10:06Hang on a second.
01:10:07Oh, yeah, I heard about that.
01:10:10I feel like the 1960s...
01:10:14Nope.
01:10:16No, I don't think so, because Princess Knight is older than Bewitched.
01:10:22Oh, yeah, that was, like, early 1960s, wasn't it?
01:10:26That was 1950s.
01:10:29Oh!
01:10:29Both Magical Girls and that weird thing that was, like, a thing in, like, the 80s and 90s of, like,
01:10:38anime about sword fighting girls who wear, like, really big shoulder pads.
01:10:44Like, both of those things spun off from Princess Knight.
01:10:59Hang on a second.
01:11:02Scrooge McDuck first appearance.
01:11:091947 Astro Boy release date.
01:11:171963.
01:11:18Okay, yeah, that tracks.
01:11:24I just think it's very funny for Scrooge McDuck to be the founder of all anime.
01:11:29Yeah.
01:11:31That would explain a lot.
01:11:34I'll explain the money he's made.
01:11:43But unlike a lot of anime, he actually touches grass because he goes on adventures.
01:11:50So he...
01:11:50Astro Boy debuted the same year JFK was assassinated.
01:11:54Coincidence?
01:11:55I think not.
01:11:58Astro Boy...
01:12:02Astro Boy, film, JFK, it all connects.
01:12:12That reminded me of when, um,
01:12:13the British version of Dennis the Menace and the American version of Dennis the Menace
01:12:17were created- were conceived in the exact same week, the exact same month, or the exact same year.
01:12:33Now, you want to know what the grandfather of, like, the
01:12:37adventure fantasy genre is?
01:12:41No.
01:12:42You know, yeah, it's just, yeah.
01:12:49I swear, every single, like, cartoon that, like, starts out lighthearted and turns into
01:12:54grimdark toward the end is all taking the same- is all, like, going through the same
01:12:59motions that this one is, like, going through the same motions that the other one is, like,
01:13:04is all taking the same- is all, like, going through the same motions that this comic book did.
01:13:11When did this come out?
01:13:121991 was the first one.
01:13:15Ah, yeah, that tracks considering how a lot of the producers were, like, were 90s babies.
01:13:21Yep.
01:13:23It's a British version?
01:13:24Yeah, it was.
01:13:29There was a UK Dennis the Menace and he was an actual menace, unlike the US one.
01:13:34I remember the video you used that when talking about Cerebus Syndrome.
01:13:37See, the thing is, Bone is actually pretty good.
01:13:41And Bone is rather consistently good, because it kind of, like, it starts out-
01:13:46you never get away from the fact that one of the main characters looks like this.
01:13:50Yeah.
01:13:52Well, Casper the Friendly Ghost- like, fucking, fucking bleached Mr. Game and Watch here.
01:13:57Uh, but Bone actually managed to be, like, consistently good.
01:14:00I mean, like, for one, like, it's- it's stakes kind of ramp up gradually.
01:14:06Like, everyone's just having a good time out in the val- out in the valley and then s-
01:14:10out in the valley and then suddenly creatures attack and they gotta go run for it.
01:14:15And it does still manage to keep its rather comedic tone even- even as things get rather grim.
01:14:20Like, it's still a good comic book.
01:14:22It does still manage to keep its rather comedic tone even- even as things get rather grim.
01:14:26Like, there's two other versions of this guy and they're- they're always up to some comedic shenanigans.
01:14:33Like, you want to know the- here's the- here's the great part.
01:14:38Here's the great- this is the part where I was like, okay, this is great.
01:14:42Uh, because, like, the main villains are after who they call the one who bears the star,
01:14:47which is that guy's cousin, who wears a shirt with a star on it.
01:14:51Presumably he's part of some prophecy.
01:14:54But then it turns out they only think that because- because, like,
01:15:00a fucking parade balloon from when he was running for election back in his home city
01:15:05blew over into the valley.
01:15:08And these numbskulls were like, this is a sign.
01:15:13Oh my god.
01:15:21So,
01:15:33eventually had to be told enough about the one who bears the star.
01:15:39Okay, that is awesome.
01:15:41I've never heard of this before, but consider my curiosity peaked.
01:15:44I've seen religion.
01:15:45It's a cult spring up from worse things.
01:15:48It was hysterical.
01:15:52I reached that point and I was like, what the fuck do they want Phoney with?
01:15:55And it's like- then it reached that point.
01:15:56It's like, oh, oh, oh, oh, they're all just really fucking stupid.
01:16:05This is great.
01:16:06Like, even he can't believe it.
01:16:19It's like, am I seriously about to be fucking sacrificed to a god over this fucking balloon?
01:16:25Idiot plots are great for comedy.
01:16:27Because that's the thing.
01:16:28You always wonder what the fuck is- why do they want Phoney so badly?
01:16:31Like, out of all the characters, why is Phoney part of a prophecy?
01:16:34And then you finally realize why they think that.
01:16:36It's so fucking stupid and I love it.
01:16:57So yeah, Bones pretty good.
01:16:58You should read it.
01:16:59Be warned, though.
01:17:05It is very big.
01:17:06You can get them all- you can get it packed into one volume.
01:17:10And that volume is bigger than a fucking phone book.
01:17:14Oh, how long is Bone?
01:17:16Let's see.
01:17:18Bone comic.
01:17:19How long is it?
01:17:26There we go.
01:17:26The complete cartoon epic in one volume.
01:17:29Does it give a length?
01:17:32Well, I know the paperback-
01:17:33Well, it's long enough that the paperback version is 70 Canadian dollars.
01:17:38Oh, that's like 50 quid.
01:17:41Ah, here we go.
01:17:421,360 pages.
01:17:49This is a comic book, by the way.
01:17:54How long does it go on for?
01:17:561,360 pages.
01:17:59Wasn't it like- I thought it was like issues or something.
01:18:02Oh, originally, yeah, I think it had nine-
01:18:05I think it had like 55 comic book issues,
01:18:09which then got packed into nine volumes,
01:18:11which then got packed into one collection.
01:18:19160.
01:18:20Remember, guys, it's a comic book.
01:18:23So of course it's going to be longer than a novel.
01:18:29So.
01:18:56Yeah, this is going nowhere.
01:18:59So.
01:19:19Is that Linux?
01:19:20No, it's Windows.
01:19:30Can I say what- drop the campfire?
01:19:38What?
01:19:39Oh, sorry, just talking to myself.
01:19:42Excuse me.
01:19:45Trying to draw a campfire scene.
01:19:47I'm trying to like find, um, what can I use for seats?
01:19:50Because I don't want to use like logs.
01:19:52I'm thinking of using like, um, normal like chairs and stuff.
01:19:57Okay.
01:19:59I think for a bit of fun, I'm going to use the plastic chair,
01:20:02the classic like white plastic chair.
01:20:05Okay.
01:20:20LGBT representation in Western animation has been a hot issue for a decade now.
01:20:24Ever since The Legend of Korra ended with a very hasty canonization of a pairing
01:20:28that had initially been born out of spite toward the love triangle
01:20:30in the first and second season and evolved into the most pop-
01:20:33No.
01:20:34Ever since The Legend of Korra ended with a very hasty canonization-
01:20:36That's a fucking run-on sentence.
01:20:43Ever since The Legend of Korra ended with a very hasty canonization of a pairing
01:20:46that had initially been born out of spite toward the love triangle in the first and second season,
01:20:50it even managed to eclipse the ever popular Zutara
01:20:52because Korrasami's fandom weren't abusive fucking ghouls.
01:20:56When this happened, it was a big-
01:21:00When this happened, it was a big moment, a-
01:21:06Explorer just crashed.
01:21:13When this happened, it was a big moment,
01:21:15a milestone for gay representation in a cartoon for children.
01:21:18Korra screaming in agony.
01:21:20Hypothetically.
01:21:21Hypothetically for children.
01:21:25Hypothetically for children.
01:21:34LGBT representation in western animation has been a hot issue for a decade now.
01:21:38Ever since The Legend of Korra ended with a very hasty canonization of a pairing
01:21:41that had initially been born out of spite toward the love triangle in the first and second season,
01:21:46it even managed to eclipse the ever popular Zutara because Korra-
01:21:51Once again.
01:21:55Once again.
01:22:01LGBT representation in western animation has been a hot issue for a decade now.
01:22:05Ever since The Legend of Korra ended with a very hasty canonization of a pairing
01:22:09that had initially been born out of spite toward the love triangle in the first and second season,
01:22:13it even managed to eclipse the ever popular Zutara because Korrasami's fandom weren't,
01:22:17you know, abusive ghouls.
01:22:20When this happened, it was a big moment,
01:22:22a milestone for gay representation in a cartoon for children.
01:22:26A milestone for gay representation in a cartoon for children.
01:22:29Korra screaming in agony.
01:22:30Hypothetically.
01:22:31Hypothetically for children.
01:22:38This blew open the door for other creators to start putting gay and trans characters in their
01:22:42show.
01:22:43This blew open the door for other-
01:22:45This blew open the door for other creators to start putting gay and trans characters in their
01:22:49shows.
01:22:49Gravity Falls got to have a pair of gay cops.
01:22:52Oh, well, that's not-
01:22:53Gravity Falls got to have a pair of gay cops.
01:22:56Oh, well, that's not very-
01:22:57They got to have a simil-
01:23:00Oh, well, that's not very-
01:23:01They got to have a similar moment in the finale, just like Korrasami did.
01:23:07Steven Universe went even further and gave an entire series-long character-
01:23:12This blew open the door for other creators to start putting gay and trans characters in their
01:23:16shows.
01:23:16Gravity Falls got to have a pair of gay cops.
01:23:19Oh, well, that's not-
01:23:21They got to have a similar moment in the finale, just like Korrasami did.
01:23:24Steven Universe went even further and gave an entire series-long character arc for a
01:23:28character getting over the love of her life, and then later had-
01:23:33Steven Universe went even further and gave an entire series-long character arc for a
01:23:37character getting over the love of her life, and then had se-
01:23:40And then later had several gay couples, some of whom even got to be on screen, and have,
01:23:45like, speaking roles.
01:23:47Then, just a few years later, the She-Ra franchise was rebooted into She-Ra and the
01:23:51Princesses of Power, which went even further and featured a series-long romantic arc between
01:23:55the two lead characters, who are adopted sisters, and one of them relentlessly stalks and abuses
01:23:59the other, like Jason Dean on Estrogen.
01:24:01But they kiss!
01:24:02And that was a milestone!
01:24:04Messing with a Dora Halloween chiptune.
01:24:13And then, in the year of Our Lord 2022, Dana Terrace released The Owl House, which featured
01:24:17not only a gay relationship-
01:24:20And then, in the year of Our Lord 2022, Dana Terrace released The Owl House, which featured
01:24:32not only a gay relationship that got to be a relationship before the finale, but also
01:24:36multiple trans characters who get to be fully fleshed out characters.
01:24:39And I'm not about to be sarcastic, like with the others.
01:24:41The Owl House was great.
01:24:42Ending was kinda crap, but that's not relevant to this video.
01:24:50Finally, the work that had started in 2014 had reached its goal.
01:24:53Finally, we had gay rep in a children's cartoon that didn't have to compromise anything.
01:24:57Finally, western animation could stand on top of a hill it-
01:25:00Finally, western animation could stand on top of a hill it had struggled to climb for
01:25:04the last ten years and look backwards at the other hill that had been-
01:25:08Finally, western animation could stand on top of a hill it had been struggling to climb
01:25:12for years and look back at the other hill that had already been climbed a decade prior.
01:25:19I'm not the first person to suggest that the discourse around LGBT representation
01:25:23in western animation hasn't always been very productive.
01:25:25From putting creators on pedestals and treating them as infallible gods,
01:25:28to hyper-focusing on one genre of animation,
01:25:31the push for better LGBT representation in animation hasn't been as extensive as it could be.
01:25:37These five series are often treated as the pioneers of gay rep in western cartoons,
01:25:41the big boundary pushers who set the stage for everyone else,
01:25:44but all of them have some pretty egregious flaws that could cause some people to argue
01:25:48their importance or others to discount them entirely.
01:25:57Plenty of shows dur-
01:25:58Plenty of shows during this era had come out with arguably better gay rep
01:26:02more quickly than these ones had.
01:26:04The Loud House had rather notably-
01:26:05The Loud House rather notably had a multi-episode long arc involving Luna and her girlfriend Sam,
01:26:10even dropping the G word long before the Owl House did.
01:26:14The Casagrandes also beat them to the-
01:26:16The Casagrandes also beat them to that punch as well.
01:26:19Kipo and the Age of Wonderbeast opened its first season with a character
01:26:22talking very frankly about being gay,
01:26:24and Craig of the Creek has been doing casual gay rep almost non-stop since 2018.
01:26:35Craig of the Creek is actually made by all of Steven Universe's good writers,
01:26:41who burned out and left.
01:26:43In discussions about LGBT rep,
01:26:45these shows are often discounted if not ignored entirely,
01:26:48because all the attention and focus is on the big-scale adventure epics
01:26:51with plenty of action and huge worlds and high stakes,
01:26:54and so they just-
01:26:56and so the others just don't count.
01:26:58They're something else, a lesser class of animation.
01:27:02This is pretty clear and obvious erasure,
01:27:04but the point I'm about to get at is that this erasure goes back even further,
01:27:08because it wasn't 2021 when a gay character finally got to say boyfriend or girlfriend,
01:27:13and it wasn't even 2017.
01:27:16It was 2004.
01:27:21The forgotten gays of western animation.
01:27:24So one of the most frustrating parts of discussing western animation
01:27:26is that to most people, western strictly means American.
01:27:29See, anime doesn't have this problem.
01:27:30We all know what that means, and nobody calls it eastern animation.
01:27:33Some weeb probably is somewhere, but whatever.
01:27:36Anyway, like everything else related to the west,
01:27:38the US is centered as the single most important entity,
01:27:40and so when something is created or produced by other countries in the-
01:27:44and so when something is created or produced by other countries in the west,
01:27:48its importance is related back to America in some way.
01:27:51Case in point, Canada has had a healthy and thriving animation industry for years,
01:27:55producing a lot of cartoons that Americans remember fondly,
01:27:58like the Care Bears, the Donkey Kong series, Franklin, Redwall, Clone High,
01:28:02the Berenstain Bears, My Dad the Rockstar,
01:28:04and also Friendship is Magic was made in Canada.
01:28:07Canadian programs were more likely to be seen in Canada over the US,
01:28:11owing to laws mandating that any network that does business in Canada
01:28:14has to in some way promote Canadian-made art.
01:28:19So shows from Disney, Cartoon Network, and Nickelodeon
01:28:22would have to share space with shows made by Canadian studios.
01:28:25Hence why most Canadians didn't really get the Disney Channel or Cartoon Network.
01:28:29Instead, we had Teletoon and YTV.
01:28:39Actually, here's a fun fact in that regard.
01:28:40In Canada, we have restrictions on how much advertising you can put in children's media.
01:28:45So cartoons imported from the US and Japan would have spaces in between them
01:28:48for ads that had to be filled with something.
01:28:50So YTV ran this in-between segment called The Zone,
01:28:53which had two hosts discussing the shows,
01:28:55and then later on started developing their own stories.
01:29:00For those of you who aren't Canadian, you have to see this.
01:29:04I feel like one of the hosts, Pat Kelly, one of the original hosts, is...
01:29:10He's...
01:29:12He's all of us. He is all of us working today.
01:29:25Welcome back to The Zone. It's Monday, as you can see.
01:29:28I'm currently out of the box. I have to go to the bathroom.
01:29:32I'm currently out of the box.
01:29:33I have now received from the producers, I think, at YTV,
01:29:38a brand new co-host.
01:29:40Ladies and gentlemen, introduce to you, Sugar.
01:29:48So Sugar, I'd like to be the first to welcome you to The Zone.
01:29:51Thank you. Thank you very much.
01:29:53I still... I'm still a little confused. I have no idea where you came from.
01:29:57How did you get the job here?
01:29:59Like, did the producers just listen to my cries all weekend, and then you came?
01:30:03They were worried about you.
01:30:06And so on and so forth, and then I just...
01:30:08Honestly, it's a really long story.
01:30:11I had to call this guy, and that guy, and the next girl, and...
01:30:14Sugar, Egghead here.
01:30:15Hi, Egg!
01:30:15We've got two and a half minutes. How long a story is it?
01:30:18Long.
01:30:19Oh, okay.
01:30:19Long.
01:30:20It's longer than...
01:30:21Well, we have lots of time, because we're now going to be in The Zone here together.
01:30:26Now, I guess one of the things that I have to do for you...
01:30:28That cannot be her real voice, is it?
01:30:30That is her real voice.
01:30:36Oh, I am echoing like crazy, by the way, Lolo.
01:30:44Oh, yeah, I've turned the volume up.
01:30:45...do is show you The Zone.
01:30:47Why don't you hop down off the thing?
01:30:50One of the things you need to know about Sugar, too, is that she's very short.
01:30:53Look at that.
01:30:54Goes up to my Adam's apple, which means that she's about three feet.
01:30:59Three feet tall, because...
01:31:01No, you're...
01:31:01You're probably, what?
01:31:02How tall are you?
01:31:03I am exactly 4'11".
01:31:054'11".
01:31:05How tall are you, Pat?
01:31:06I'm exactly one foot taller than you.
01:31:08Wow.
01:31:09Because I'm 5'11".
01:31:10Well, anyway, come on.
01:31:11Here's The Zone.
01:31:12Sugar...
01:31:14Isn't Pat, like, just a mood?
01:31:17An eternal mood?
01:31:21They had storylines with this.
01:31:24They had a story.
01:31:25They had a story.
01:31:31They had a story.
01:31:33They had a story.
01:31:35They had a story.
01:31:37They had a story.
01:31:39They had a story.
01:31:41They had a story.
01:31:41...says me about this situation, is that I think it's a joke.
01:31:45Okay?
01:31:45Just one big joke.
01:31:47I kind of...
01:31:48Why did Finley cross the road to get to...
01:31:49Okay, I think you're delirious.
01:31:50No, no, no.
01:31:51I'm not.
01:31:52It's...
01:31:52Breathe.
01:31:52Hey, breathe.
01:31:53Ow, watch the thumb.
01:31:54You know what? I'm fine. I'm fine. The thumb will be fine. We'll be fine. Jenny, I think we should go to YTV right now.
01:32:01Professor, thank you very much.
01:32:02No, I don't think that's a good idea.
01:32:04Jenny, we're done here. Yes, we should go.
01:32:07Thank you for all your help, Professor.
01:32:09You take care of that hand.
01:32:11I will.
01:32:12You take care of his thumb.
01:32:13I'll put it on ice.
01:32:17He's still acting today.
01:32:24The Zone clips. I'm pretty sure I'm the only person alive who remembers The Zone or the Yokamites.
01:32:36Anyway, here in Canada, laws about what you could and couldn't put on TV were a little different.
01:32:40This, along with Canadians generally being more progressive on average than Americans,
01:32:44meant that gay characters made it to screen in Canada long before they did in the U.S.
01:32:48And two of my three examples are from Canadian shows that were promptly censored when they crossed over to the U.S.
01:32:54Brace Face, Dion and Houston.
01:32:56Brace Face is a show about Sharon Spitz, a teenage girl who gets braces one day that turn out to be electromagnetically charged,
01:33:02as in they can intercept phone calls and use Sharon's mouth as a speaker,
01:33:06they can magnetically pull in metal objects, they can absorb electricity and redirect it somewhere else,
01:33:10and they can even just straight up summon lightning when Sharon's angry.
01:33:17No, this isn't a superhero show. It's just an intense inconvenience to Sharon at every hour of every day.
01:33:23It's like That's So Raven, but with significantly higher chances of property damage.
01:33:29A lot of shows were like that back then.
01:33:31These days there'd be an entire season-log arc to learning the ins and outs of Sharon's magnetic teeth
01:33:36and then being a part of some conspiracy by a villain with mommy issues,
01:33:39but back then cartoons were doing weird shit like this all the time.
01:33:44The entire show is just about Sharon's personal life,
01:33:46trying to navigate the social minefield of vicious, sociopathic teenage girls in middle school,
01:33:51or grown-ass adults on Twitter for you young folk.
01:34:00The entire show is just about Sharon's personal life,
01:34:02trying to navigate the social minefield of vicious, sociopathic teenage girls in middle school,
01:34:06or, for you young folk out there, your Gen Z teachers posting TikToks talking shit about you.
01:34:14Or, for you young folk out there, your teachers posting TikToks talking shit about you.
01:34:19Anyway, in the second season, yes, this show is good enough to get three entire seasons,
01:34:23Sharon starts high school and every single ninth grader is given a mentor from the older grades.
01:34:28Canadian high schools don't actually have this.
01:34:30Instead, they have a school supply list that doesn't include mandatory Kevlar.
01:34:33Canadian high schools don't actually have this.
01:34:36Instead, they have a school supply list that doesn't include mandatory Kevlar.
01:34:40Sharon ends up getting Dion, who, in her words,
01:34:432x1453
01:34:48How unique is Dion? Well, just looking at him, you can already tell exactly where they're going with him.
01:34:54The best part is, he has a dead name.
01:34:57The best part is, he has a dead name.
01:35:002x1616
01:35:03Dion is a...
01:35:04Dion is a...
01:35:09Dion is a part-time fashion designer who does all sorts of weird recycling bits,
01:35:13like trying to make a dress out of paper bags,
01:35:15like trying to make a dress out of paper bags,
01:35:17and succeeding to make a sequin dress out of soda can tabs.
01:35:21His first episode largely deals with him being the freak at school, meaning gay,
01:35:25and Sharon getting wrapped up in his reputation, as you can probably...
01:35:30His first episode largely deals with him being the freak at school,
01:35:34and Sharon getting wrapped up in his reputation, as you can probably...
01:35:44However, Dion lets it mostly roll off his back.
01:35:46You get the sense he's used to this kind of treatment from others, which is tragic,
01:35:50to the point that when Sharon gets skittish about being around him because of how it affects her ability to fit in,
01:35:55Dion cuts through her mealy-mouthed waffling because he's been through this before.
01:35:582x1, 1445.
01:36:02Sharon comes around eventually, and she and Dion are friends for the rest of the series,
01:36:05though Dion only appears in a few episodes,
01:36:07and only two of them involve him playing a significant role in the story.
01:36:10The other one is game, set-up, and match,
01:36:12where Sharon decides apropos of nothing that Dion needs a boyfriend.
01:36:16No, literally.
01:36:183x8, 444.
01:36:20Yeah, they just drop that with no fanfare at all, like it's the most casual thing in the world.
01:36:24This was 2004.
01:36:27So she decides to set him up with a new character, Huston,
01:36:29who is introduced with a bag adorned with a rainbow flag with a pink triangle in the center,
01:36:33and even mentions having an ex-boyfriend.
01:36:353x8, 257.
01:36:38Yeah, the writers of Braceface weren't mincing words.
01:36:40They don't actually... I mean, they don't say gay, but they basically say everything else.
01:36:433x8, 422.
01:36:48422 gays it.
01:36:53Oh, I forgot to unmute you.
01:36:56The entire episode is Sharon making increasingly desperate attempts to set Huston and Dion up,
01:37:00falling into the usual girl-with-a-gay-friend trap
01:37:03of thinking her friend will rut himself into the closest available gay guy in the room.
01:37:08Falling into the usual girl-with-a-gay-friend trap
01:37:10of thinking her friend will rut himself onto the closest gay guy in the room.
01:37:15However, Dion isn't actually looking for anyone at the moment.
01:37:17He makes a remark about looking for The One eventually,
01:37:20but it's not his focus,
01:37:22and the whole experience ends up being awkward for both of them.
01:37:25Which is why they end up getting back at her almost immediately afterward.
01:37:28The whole episode is a very cute parable about boundaries
01:37:30and not projecting your own single angst onto your friends,
01:37:33because that's what Sharon's doing.
01:37:41But I think what stands out about Dion as a character is how relaxed he is.
01:37:45You can easily see that he's that flamboyant kind of gay man,
01:37:48but he's not at the extreme caricature that Glee would hit five years later.
01:37:52He's just vibing and being himself.
01:37:56Hmm.
01:38:03It's interesting how good Dion looks in hindsight,
01:38:05because I remember fifteen years ago when a character like Dion
01:38:08would have been derided as a stereotype.
01:38:10A flamboyant fashion designer who sasses the popular girl
01:38:12wasn't exactly setting the world on fire,
01:38:14even if it was such a casual first for children's animation.
01:38:17And even today, there are some people who look at that kind of character and cringe.
01:38:21But time makes fools of us all,
01:38:23and if we can get article after article
01:38:26about what a milestone for gay representation it is
01:38:29that a show had a five-season-long arc
01:38:31of someone being both abusive and possessive toward their older sister,
01:38:34then I think a guy sparkling a little bit
01:38:37can be officially declared an unproblematic fave.
01:38:41The environment around Dion is so casual,
01:38:43so you might be wondering how this happened in 2004 of all times.
01:38:47Well, in Canada, there was always a market for teenage animation.
01:38:51Nelvana, the production company behind Braceface,
01:38:53was producing a lot of animated shows aimed at teenagers
01:38:56about things teenagers cared about.
01:38:58This was a market that the United States just straight-up doesn't have.
01:39:02Animation for teenagers was usually cut up to be made child-friendly
01:39:06or pushed into the adult animation ghetto.
01:39:12Or pushed into the adult animation ghetto.
01:39:15This has extended into the rest of the American animation industry
01:39:17and even to the audience, with shows made for teenagers in other regions
01:39:20often being filed under adult animation,
01:39:22giving some people the idea that there's no middle ground
01:39:25between a show for five-year-olds and a show for adults,
01:39:27and giving some people a complex about what constitutes adult.
01:39:33Mean Xander clips.
01:39:34No, Mom, you don't get it.
01:39:35This is totally mature and important to the plot.
01:39:37Why are you laughing?
01:39:38This is supposed...
01:39:39No, Mom, you don't get it.
01:39:40This is totally mature and important to the plot.
01:39:42Why are you laughing?
01:39:43This is supposed to be horrifying.
01:39:46So shows like...
01:39:47Why are you laughing?
01:39:48This is supposed to be horrifying.
01:39:54So shows like Braceface didn't air in a state that wasn't butchered.
01:39:57Most of the subject matter, not just Dion,
01:39:59but a lot of other material in the series,
01:40:01didn't survive the trip over to the United States.
01:40:05The third season especially wasn't aired at all
01:40:07because it started tackling heavier subject matter.
01:40:10This contributes to why Dion isn't remembered.
01:40:12Sure, American animation fans were aware of Dion,
01:40:15and many were even fond of him,
01:40:16but since he didn't air in the US,
01:40:18there's a sense among Americans that he didn't count.
01:40:24This is a sentiment that only got worse as the years went on
01:40:26and Western animation started hyper-inflating the importance
01:40:29of the adventure fantasy genre.
01:40:33So you also didn't count unless you were in a show
01:40:35that was already important.
01:40:39So even if he was available through the same mediums
01:40:41that saw subtitled 90s anime get into everyone's hands,
01:40:44Dion just wasn't remembered because he didn't fit
01:40:46into that very narrow mold.
01:40:50Sixteen. Gene.
01:40:53Sixteen was an animated sitcom aimed at teenagers
01:40:55that aired from 2004 to 2010.
01:40:57Fuck, six years? Really?
01:41:01Anyway, the premise was about six teens and the shit
01:41:03they get up to at the Galleria Mall after they all get part-time jobs.
01:41:06The series was actually a lot better than most people
01:41:08ever gave it credit for, and its staying power
01:41:10has only dwindled since the adventure fantasy scourge
01:41:12pushed every contemporary show into a ghetto.
01:41:16The episode we're talking about is a role reversal.
01:41:18Specifically the B-plot.
01:41:20Specifically the B-plot where Nikki has a new co-worker
01:41:22at the khaki bar named Gene,
01:41:24who she hits it off with pretty quickly.
01:41:26Nikki's actually really glad to have a co-worker
01:41:28she doesn't want to strangle because her other co-workers
01:41:30are the other girls that she's totally not like.
01:41:37In keeping with the theme set by Braceface,
01:41:39everyone else clocks Gene as gay almost immediately.
01:41:4112-16.
01:41:43Once again, there's a casual air
01:41:45with which a gay character can just exist
01:41:47and everyone treats it as so mundane
01:41:49that they're all giggling about Nikki's new girlfriend.
01:41:51Except not really, we're getting to that.
01:41:53Actually, that happens earlier in the episode as well.
01:41:55And guys don't ask out other guys.
01:41:57Some guys ask it, not the conversation we're having.
01:42:01Oh, also, this is the episode
01:42:03where that Tumblr meme comes from.
01:42:05Snake traps.
01:42:09Anyway, now wracked with insecurity,
01:42:11Nikki tries to subtly figure out if Gene
01:42:13is actually gay without actually saying it.
01:42:15You know, that old chestnut.
01:42:17Something even Braceface didn't manage to get away from.
01:42:19I'm swimming in the shallow end.
01:42:21However, Gene just cuts through all of that.
01:42:2314-17.
01:42:25And that's it. Gene is seen with her girlfriend
01:42:27during the dance later, and that's actually the last
01:42:29we ever see of Gene.
01:42:3116 dedicated a single sub-plot of a single episode
01:42:33to a character for whom being gay is such a
01:42:35straightforward part of themselves that it's talked about
01:42:37so casually.
01:42:39Sure, Gene is a one-off bit character, but
01:42:41at no point is she made to hide behind
01:42:43metaphors, at no point is she made the butt
01:42:45of the joke, and at no point are you expected to follow
01:42:47the showrunner's livestreams in order to figure out
01:42:49if she's actually gay.
01:42:51This was 2010,
01:42:53four years before Korra and Asami held hands
01:42:55into the Spirit Portal. In fact, compared
01:42:57to Dion, who is a regular member of the cast
01:42:59and gets a few episodes dedicated specifically
01:43:01to him, this is actually a backslide.
01:43:03Both Braceface and 16 were made by the
01:43:05same company, though Nelvana technically made
01:43:07most of the shows in Canada.
01:43:09So to see them go from a regular
01:43:11recurring character to a single bit character
01:43:13and actually a few more, but I can't find footage of those
01:43:15episodes, is a touch odd, but the shows
01:43:17ultimately have different crea- but
01:43:19is a touch odd, but the shows ultimately
01:43:21have different creators anyway.
01:43:23People may forget this, but the prevailing attitude
01:43:25about writing gay characters in 2010 was that
01:43:27you have to be subtle.
01:43:29It has to be subtle. You can't just say it
01:43:31outright. You can't just say it
01:43:33outright. You have to be
01:43:35subtle.
01:43:39This wasn't just homophobes saying this, this was
01:43:41actual gay people saying this as well,
01:43:43saying it was better to sneak under the radar.
01:43:45And two Nelvana series
01:43:47just straight up refused to do that to varying degrees
01:43:49of enthusiasm.
01:43:53Still, I like Jean. I might be-
01:43:55She might be in only one episode,
01:43:57but it's a good episode.
01:43:5916 in general had better writing
01:44:01than most animated shows of its day, and it even
01:44:03had an episode about periods years before
01:44:05turning red, made it acceptable to talk about
01:44:07it on American TV. I'd say if you
01:44:09like delving into animation history, 16
01:44:11should be on your radar.
01:44:13Lloyd in Space. Zoit.
01:44:21Lloyd in Space, yet another
01:44:23show that really couldn't possibly air today.
01:44:25It's another slice of life show, but the hook is that
01:44:27it takes place on a space station between a bunch of
01:44:29aliens. The titular Lloyd is your old-fashioned
01:44:31green alien with an antenna, and then you have
01:44:33a one-token human, a giant blob monster
01:44:35voiced by Patrick Starr, and a sentient brain.
01:44:41If this show aired today, there'd be a periphery of 20-somethings
01:44:43demanding to know the lore behind humans
01:44:45getting into space.
01:44:49Anyway, the episode in question
01:44:51is Neither Boy Nor Girl, an episode centered
01:44:53around a genderless alien named Zoit.
01:44:55As the boys start arguing with a group
01:44:57of girls about whose music is better, they decide
01:44:59to ask Zoit for their input, only for
01:45:01Zoit to... four minutes.
01:45:03Go full YouTuber
01:45:05on it. Well done, Zoit.
01:45:07Then, when one of the guys genders Zoit as male,
01:45:09it starts an argument over what gender Zoit
01:45:11is, leading to a string of attempts to discern
01:45:13Zoit's gender before they just up and ask them.
01:45:15And Zoit says, 720.
01:45:19Side note, anyone miss when
01:45:21commercial breaks were used to establish tension?
01:45:23Anyway,
01:45:25Zoit explains that their species doesn't have
01:45:27a gender until they hit puberty, and then
01:45:29choose what their gender is... and then choose
01:45:31what their gender is going to be.
01:45:33Leading to an all-out battle of the
01:45:35sexes as two groups of kids trying to push
01:45:37Zoit in one direction... as the two...
01:45:39Leading to an all-out battle of the sexes as the
01:45:41two groups of kids try to push Zoit in one
01:45:43direction over the other, with each of the guys
01:45:45all secretly getting into the feminine things they're
01:45:47watching Zoit do, so good job there.
01:45:53Zoit eventually finds out they're
01:45:55being u... Zoit...
01:45:57Zoit eventually finds out they're being used,
01:45:59and is rightfully...
01:46:01Zoit...
01:46:05Zoit eventually finds out
01:46:07they're being used, and is rightfully upset about it,
01:46:09and the groups flip and...
01:46:11and the groups... then the groups flip,
01:46:13then the groups feel bad about it, and flip,
01:46:15and give Zoit birthday gifts for the opposite gender
01:46:17as an apology. They're trying,
01:46:19they're not very bright, but they're trying.
01:46:21Unfortunately, they start arguing again,
01:46:23but this time Zoit cuts them off, and...
01:46:25really cuts to the heart of the issue of cis-normativity.
01:46:271923.
01:46:29The very next scene is what tends
01:46:31to leave a sour taste in people's mouth, but...
01:46:33Fuck.
01:46:35Fuck it. This was 2002, and that's a...
01:46:37that's better...
01:46:39The very next scene is what tends to leave a sour taste
01:46:41in people's mouth, but... fuck it.
01:46:43This was 2002, and that's better material for a
01:46:45little baby trans still in their eggs than anything
01:46:47that airs today.
01:46:49It's not just aimed at them, it's aimed squarely
01:46:51at their cis-normative parents sitting in the living room
01:46:53with them.
01:46:57The next day Zoit comes back into school
01:46:59looking no different, and actually refuses to tell
01:47:01any of them what they picked, and... 2107.
01:47:03Yeah, this is the part
01:47:05that tends to stick in people's craw, to the point that
01:47:07they ignore Zoit's speech earlier in the episode.
01:47:09It's weirdly heteronormative for an
01:47:11episode about how gender essentialism is stifling,
01:47:13and ignores the reality that gender
01:47:15identity and orientation are not mutually exclusive.
01:47:19However...
01:47:21It's not nearly as bad as five seasons
01:47:23of abusive codependent catgirl
01:47:25incest, so like...
01:47:27perspective.
01:47:29So like... perspective.
01:47:33For 2002, a show for children
01:47:35taking a moment to stop and say,
01:47:37Hey, all this gender essentialism isn't just bad
01:47:39for me, it's bad for all of you as well.
01:47:41It's actually rather novel and touches on
01:47:43something we sometimes talk about, but not enough.
01:47:45Cis-normativity isn't
01:47:47just bad for trans people, it's bad for
01:47:49everyone. It harms everyone,
01:47:51puts pressure on everyone, and is used as a
01:47:53cudgel against people cis and trans alike.
01:47:57Zoit sort of gestures to the root of the issue
01:47:59of that all...
01:48:01Zoit sort of gestures to the root of the issue of that...
01:48:03of that all of them...
01:48:05in that all of them are implying men and
01:48:07women can't actually be friends, or like the same
01:48:09things. Their perception of what it means to be
01:48:11a boy or a girl is centered on the
01:48:13stuff. Consumption. Hobbies.
01:48:15Things that aren't explicitly gendered.
01:48:17Something that Zoit themselves demonstrates earlier in the
01:48:19episode. Zoit analyzing music.
01:48:21It's similar to Princess Knight
01:48:23in that it's ostensibly about sexism,
01:48:25but becomes an interesting look at gender identity.
01:48:27Because cis-normativity...
01:48:29because cis-norm...
01:48:31It's similar to Princess Knight in that it's ostensibly about
01:48:33sexism, but becomes an interesting look at gender
01:48:35identity, because cis-normativity and sexism
01:48:37go hand in hand.
01:48:39These aren't issues that are separate from each other,
01:48:41especially as the modern day trans panic
01:48:43continues to fester and rot.
01:48:57A lot of people
01:48:59analyzing this episode tend to mark it down for the
01:49:01last second heteronormativity toward the end,
01:49:03but I think that's small potatoes compared to the surprisingly
01:49:05profound...
01:49:07But I think that's small potatoes compared to the surprisingly
01:49:09profound deconstruction of cis-normativity,
01:49:11and the way in which the episode sticks to its guns
01:49:13by not revealing Zoit's gender at the end.
01:49:15And to that end, how do we know
01:49:17Zoit's not messing with them? I mean,
01:49:19their crush...
01:49:21I mean, their crush could be on anyone and not necessarily...
01:49:23I mean, their crush could be on anyone, not necessarily
01:49:25them.
01:49:27Especially since Zoit never appears after this
01:49:29and thus was never part of the group.
01:49:31So yeah, I'm gonna say Zoit is good. No caveats,
01:49:33no asterisks, no nothing. Zoit's just
01:49:35damn good.
01:49:41This is a video of two goals. The first is to
01:49:43bring attention to moments in animation that are
01:49:45sadly forgotten. Characters who are
01:49:47uniquely forward-thinking for their time and who were
01:49:49genuinely well-written and earnest, decades
01:49:51before The Owl House was even a glint in
01:49:53Dana Terrace's eye.
01:49:55A time when creators didn't have to compromise
01:49:57their entire creative vision in some weird
01:49:59Pavlovian mind game with the studio.
01:50:01They could just say shit.
01:50:03I used to have a bare minimum standards
01:50:05for LGBT rep in animation, and those standards
01:50:07were main characters in a healthy
01:50:09relationship before the finale.
01:50:11And it wasn't because I secretly hated other
01:50:13LGBT creators and wanted to put them under a
01:50:15microscope, despite what some morons would
01:50:17say. It's because I'd already grown up with
01:50:19good, and the next step was better.
01:50:21I used to watch Braceface as a
01:50:23kid, and Dion was the first time I'd seen
01:50:25a gay character being so casually in
01:50:27the cast.
01:50:29An accepted member of the group
01:50:31without any caveats or conditions.
01:50:33Yeah, he was Sharon's
01:50:35gay friend, but he was never just Sharon's
01:50:37gay friend. He didn't appear a lot
01:50:39He didn't appear in a lot of episodes
01:50:41He didn't appear in a lot of episodes, but whenever he
01:50:43But whenever he did, he was always just
01:50:45good.
01:50:49His self-respect, how he doesn't take garbage
01:50:51from people lying down, and how the story doesn't just
01:50:53humiliate him without acknowledging it as a problem
01:50:55were all things I needed to see.
01:50:57Dion was a character who wouldn't accept
01:50:59anything less than what he deserved.
01:51:01This was in 2004, where
01:51:03even in Canadian schools it wasn't uncommon
01:51:05to see gay or faggot being thrown
01:51:07around as casual insults.
01:51:09Children were
01:51:11very casually homophobic without
01:51:13thinking about it, so being presented with a world
01:51:15where that just didn't happen was important.
01:51:17As a young
01:51:19closeted bisexual going through
01:51:21some pretty horrific shit at the time,
01:51:23a character like Dion struck a chord with me that I never
01:51:25knew existed.
01:51:27And I'm sad to say
01:51:29that even I forgot about him.
01:51:31And I'm sad to say that even I forgot about him.
01:51:33I've long cited 16 as the first example
01:51:35of gay rep in animation, in fact I did it
01:51:37just last video, because after a certain point
01:51:39watching a show like Braceface wasn't
01:51:41cool, and so I let it vanish into the
01:51:43memory hole. Re-watching
01:51:45it for this video, I'd expected to have to put asterisks
01:51:47all over it, saying, well, it was
01:51:492004, but I was surprised at how
01:51:51well it held up. How well
01:51:53all of them held up, really. They were small,
01:51:55but they've aged extremely well in a time where
01:51:57not only is older gay rep aging poorly,
01:51:59but even the newer stuff
01:52:01is coming out with some moldy spots on it, right out of
01:52:03the box.
01:52:09Which brings me to the second goal, and that is
01:52:11to express a long-standing frustration
01:52:13with how LGBT rep in animation
01:52:15is often discussed, and often presented.
01:52:17Because Dion, Gene, and Zoit are
01:52:19characters that are presented with respect
01:52:21and- because Dion, Gene, and Zoit
01:52:23are characters who are presented with respect and
01:52:25dignity, who get to just exist.
01:52:27And whenever I'm bringing them up, I'm always told
01:52:29how they don't count.
01:52:31The narrative of Korra to
01:52:33Steven to She-Ra to Owl House
01:52:35is so important for some people
01:52:37to maintain, that this-
01:52:39that this prestige genre of adventure
01:52:41animation has to have a uniquely
01:52:43different position above everything else.
01:52:49It's so weirdly arrogant
01:52:51for a subgenre that couldn't get its shit together
01:52:53for over a decade.
01:52:55Legend of Korra was subjected to all kinds of myth-making
01:52:57about how Brike were setting up Korrasami
01:52:59from Season 3, and how they were taken off
01:53:01the air because of gay subtext, and they
01:53:03fought tooth and nail for it, and
01:53:05none of that was true.
01:53:07It was a popular ship thrown in
01:53:09for the last few ep-
01:53:11It was a popular ship thrown in
01:53:13for the last few episodes, and it was in fact
01:53:15so ambiguous that the creators had to confirm it
01:53:17on Twitter after the fact.
01:53:19Steven Universe is often hailed
01:53:21as the messiah of gay animation,
01:53:23and yet when you actually watch it, you're treated to maybe
01:53:25a few scenes of Ruby and Sapphire,
01:53:27where their entire personality is each other.
01:53:29And the majority of the real estate
01:53:31is taken up by a slave being hopelessly
01:53:33and destructively in love with her master.
01:53:35And this is presented as some kind
01:53:37of tragic love story.
01:53:39It wouldn't be until the sequel series and several years
01:53:41of the creator being bludgeoned over the head by Twitter
01:53:43that this would actually be unpacked to any significant
01:53:45degree.
01:53:47She-Ra spent five years on-
01:53:49She-Ra spent five years-
01:53:51She-Ra spent five seasons on increasingly elaborate
01:53:53displays of Catra brutalizing the object
01:53:55of her affections.
01:53:57With both the situation they were in and production
01:53:59materials making it clear that the two
01:54:01of them were adoptive siblings.
01:54:03And this was given a media parade
01:54:05for years, even with the creators who have
01:54:07the- even with creators who- even creators
01:54:09who have their heads on straight were lavishing
01:54:11it in tongue baths, and Catrador
01:54:13didn't have the plausible deniability that Rose
01:54:15and Pearl could have. At least they were
01:54:17able to say at the end, yeah, that was unhealthy
01:54:19and I was definitely not dragging that out for three seasons
01:54:21longer than necessary.
01:54:23No, they just have Adora hook up with her
01:54:25murderous, possessive sister.
01:54:27It wouldn't have been
01:54:29until The Owl House that we actually had gay characters
01:54:31that were healthy, not evil,
01:54:33not- that were- that we actually-
01:54:35It wouldn't have been until The Owl House that we actually
01:54:37had gay characters that were healthy, not
01:54:39evil, equals, not
01:54:41hidden from the audience, and not legally
01:54:43related.
01:54:45Ironically, coming from the studio, that was the most
01:54:47skittish about the gays.
01:54:49So it took the Wanamay crowd until 2022
01:54:51to reach the point that Braceface was at in
01:54:532004. With the know-
01:54:55with the knowledge of recent history, this is looking
01:54:57less and less like an increasing set of milestones
01:54:59and more like a course correction, back
01:55:01to a- back to the point we were at.
01:55:03All the while, contemporary shows
01:55:05were sailing along as they'd always had been
01:55:07doing just fine.
01:55:09All the while, contemporary shows were sailing along
01:55:11as they always had, doing just
01:55:13fine in terms of LGBT rep.