75 years on from that mysterious night in Roswell in 1947, we take a look back at the first hand accounts of those who saw, held and were instrumental in disclosing what the government could not, the crash of an alien spaceship.
Conspiracy, cover-up and condemnation… Those brave enough to share their stories from that mysterious night in Roswell 1947 faced humiliation and intimidation. 75 years later, as all those who had first hand knowledge of the event have now passed, the truth may never be accepted. We take a look back at the first hand accounts of those who saw, held and were instrumental in disclosing what the government could not, the crash of an alien spaceship. Diluted over the years, this documentary re-examines and focuses on the personal experiences, from witnessing a close encounter to traumatic military threats, which the ordeal had on unwitting bystanders within the Roswell community. Sucked into the story stuck in time, hear first hand accounts from Jesse Marcel, Frankie Rowe, and Walter Haut, on what transpired into the greatest ufological mystery of the century. Along with expert analysis from Kevin Randle (retired USAR) and Kent Jeffrey (coordinator of The Roswell Initiative). Something definitely crashed into the desert of Roswell New Mexico, the air force maintains it was a weather balloon, the eyewitnesses store their belief in a cover up. Who do you believe? Are you being deceived?
Conspiracy, cover-up and condemnation… Those brave enough to share their stories from that mysterious night in Roswell 1947 faced humiliation and intimidation. 75 years later, as all those who had first hand knowledge of the event have now passed, the truth may never be accepted. We take a look back at the first hand accounts of those who saw, held and were instrumental in disclosing what the government could not, the crash of an alien spaceship. Diluted over the years, this documentary re-examines and focuses on the personal experiences, from witnessing a close encounter to traumatic military threats, which the ordeal had on unwitting bystanders within the Roswell community. Sucked into the story stuck in time, hear first hand accounts from Jesse Marcel, Frankie Rowe, and Walter Haut, on what transpired into the greatest ufological mystery of the century. Along with expert analysis from Kevin Randle (retired USAR) and Kent Jeffrey (coordinator of The Roswell Initiative). Something definitely crashed into the desert of Roswell New Mexico, the air force maintains it was a weather balloon, the eyewitnesses store their belief in a cover up. Who do you believe? Are you being deceived?
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FunTranscript
00:30No, I just wish this whole thing would go away, just, it doesn't go away.
00:53Most certainly the people who have this information for the most part would love to share it with
00:59their loved ones, to share it with their grandchildren, to share it with humanity in general.
01:05We're not paid a penny for anything.
01:08I'm hoping that they will someday release the information.
01:13It's information of such great consequence that it's something that should be shared
01:17by all humanity.
01:19It's not something that should be limited to a privileged few within the United States
01:23government.
01:24The only reason we're doing this is to try and get as much of the truth out as we can
01:30while some of us are still alive.
01:33Now, Doctor, could they be hallucinations or some other misrepresented objects?
01:39They could, but I am firmly convinced that such an explanation is not valid for all of
01:45them.
01:46It might be in few cases, but they are still remaining a solid block of very reliable good
01:52observations which cannot be explained by such means.
01:56I think we are entitled to know what's happening in this world.
02:00We live in it.
02:01It's our world.
02:02Deadline edition July 8th, 1947.
02:06It's getting to be a long lost story.
02:10It's not going to be too long before there's not going to be anybody left that was alive
02:15in 1947.
02:17The Army Air Forces has announced that a flying disc has been found and is now in the possession
02:22of the Army.
02:23They just think that you're nuts if you talk about it.
02:27And I don't just generally talk about it, you know, to anybody unless somebody calls
02:32and asks me to tell them what happened.
02:38It's not a source of conversation over coffee.
02:42If I didn't think the government was withholding information on the overall situation, I wouldn't
02:48be sitting here being interviewed for one minute.
02:55It doesn't get any easier, because every time that I tell somebody about it, I feel like
03:03I'm 12 years old again.
03:07They might regularly land outside on oceans or in uninhabited parts of countries, but
03:16they might also not be ready to tell us.
03:20He said, he said, I mean the rest of your life.
03:28We will find you.
03:30Tell us what actually happened.
03:37Well, well, finally got back home.
03:44I don't know what you could do, Roswell.
03:51Oh, man, I'm tired.
03:57I'm happy to be back home, I guarantee you.
04:07It's part of the ordeal.
04:10I spent all day looking for that ranch where we found this stuff.
04:15We finally located it.
04:16It was too late to take pictures, so we had to drive all the way back into Roswell.
04:20I tell you, I enjoyed going out there, but it's too hard on you.
04:24I'm sorry, I'm getting too old for that kind of stuff.
04:27We can say that, but...
04:29Yeah, but I got to the point where I couldn't even walk.
04:32I mean, it's tiring.
04:34We had trouble finding the place to begin with.
04:37We searched the whole day for the place.
04:39But when I saw the place, I recognized it.
04:41Well, that's good.
04:42So, the house where Mr. Brazzere used to live, it's a...
04:49They renovated the whole thing.
04:51It's a bogey.
04:52You know a bogey who lives there.
04:54He took over the grass, you see.
04:56And he was very helpful.
04:58He took us right to the spot.
05:00And he knew exactly where it was.
05:02So, we were lucky in that respect.
05:04And I walked over that entire area.
05:07Too much happening at one time.
05:09But I did recognize the exact spot.
05:11Oh, you did, huh?
05:12Oh, yeah.
05:13I took them to the exact spot where the rest of it was found.
05:15But there wasn't any debris out there, I guess.
05:17Oh, no.
05:18Lord, that thing is vacuum-cleaned.
05:20There's nothing left.
05:22Roswell right now is composed mostly of retirees.
05:26It's a beautiful sight, the illumination around that place.
05:31But I really enjoyed that.
05:33So, my trip was worthwhile anyway.
05:35Well, I'm glad.
05:36I'm very happy about it.
05:37Well, son...
05:38It makes me feel better, too.
05:40I tell you what, I'd love to live there again.
05:42Well, I would, too, you know.
05:44And I spent quite a bit of time at Walter's house, too.
05:47I went to his art store.
05:49We had dinner together Tuesday night, Wednesday night, right?
05:53So, everything went okay.
05:55I had a good time.
05:56It sure sounds like it.
05:57I'm very happy for you.
05:58It makes me feel better.
06:00It takes me down out of my lonely.
06:02I'm telling you.
06:04Well, son, I'm going to let you go now.
06:06Okay, Daniel.
06:07I'll give you a call next week.
06:08Okay, fine.
06:09Keep your chin up and have as much fun as you can.
06:11Okay.
06:12That's all I think you do.
06:13I'll try to do that.
06:14Okay, bro.
06:15Okay, bye-bye.
06:16Bye-bye.
06:19I think there were 15,000 people living in Roswell,
06:22and 7,000 of them were out at the base.
06:24It was a huge benefit to the community.
06:27Now, Roswell was probably one of the most patriotic towns in the whole United States.
06:32They saved every tin can around.
06:34They scraped the tin foil off of gum wrappers.
06:40We saved the string.
06:42We turned everything in for the war effort.
06:45And even two years afterwards, we were still doing it.
06:58The secret of events, as I've been able to establish them in my mind,
07:02is you've got radar sightings taking place early in July, 1st, 2nd, 3rd of July.
07:08You've got people watching this thing with great interest.
07:11I mean, here we are over the site where the atomic bomb was detonated in 1945.
07:16Atomic research still continues.
07:18The 509th Bomb Group and rockets being launched from Alamogoro.
07:22So it's an area of high interest, especially to a space-traveling race.
07:25Friday, July 4th, the object disappears from the scopes.
07:30There's reason to suspect it's down.
07:33The next morning, we've got an archaeology team out there.
07:37We also have a man and a woman.
07:40This story now begins like every science fiction movie you've ever seen.
07:44I've got a couple out in the desert.
07:46I've got a man and a woman.
07:48It's like every science fiction movie you've ever seen.
07:50I've got a couple out in the desert.
07:52She's married. He's not.
07:54They're not supposed to be there.
07:55The thing roars overhead and slams into the ground.
07:58They look at it the night before, but they're so drunk, they don't do anything about it.
08:02The next morning, they sneak back to see what's going on.
08:04About the time, the archaeology team shows up.
08:07The archaeologists send someone back to call the sheriff.
08:10The sheriff alerts the 509th Bomb Group.
08:13We've got trucks coming in on the morning of July 5th.
08:16We've got a military cordon going up around the area here close to Roswell.
08:20And this is what's critical.
08:22Why do you put up guards on the roads right off Highway 285 just north of town
08:28if all you've got is the debris field some 75 miles northwest?
08:33You don't need to do that.
08:34If the craft impacts much closer to Roswell, then the guards make perfect sense.
08:39You want to keep people out of the area.
08:41The team picks up the bodies at that location.
08:44They're brought back to Hangar 84.
08:46The debris is brought back to this area.
08:49It's transported out on the night of July 5th.
08:52The next day, they're sitting around congratulating themselves.
08:55Aren't we bright? We got this thing contained.
08:57Nobody knows what's happened.
09:00Mack Brazel shows up at the sheriff's office with a box full of the debris.
09:05Clearly, this is something else.
09:15When Kevin came to you, did you then come to your family after that?
09:26Not for about two years.
09:28Not for about two years.
09:32The first two years that Kevin called me, I wouldn't talk to him.
09:37And then finally he told me, he said,
09:40We've been to a meeting, and we know the firemen were out there.
09:45We know that your dad was on the crew that went out there.
09:49We think you must know something. Will you come and talk to us?
09:53So I agreed to come and talk to him, and they were staying here at the Roswell Inn.
09:59I was making a trip to Portales to see my daughter and stopped to see them on my way back.
10:07And we had a conversation about, yes, I knew that there had been a craft that had crashed,
10:14but we didn't go into details on it.
10:18And Kevin was talking about the corona site.
10:22And after our conversation, I told him, We're not talking about the same thing.
10:27Apparently, what you have heard does not match what I know about, because the location is wrong.
10:36I said, The place where Daddy went, he did not go to corona, and he would not have gone to corona.
10:42The Roswell Fire Department would not have gone to corona.
10:47So at that point, they started looking for clues to this other crash site,
10:56when I told them where Daddy said it was.
11:02So that's how this started.
11:07That's how it all came out, anyway.
11:21My name is Frankie Rowe, R-O-W-E.
11:27I know you've probably told this story a million times, but if you could tell it as fresh as possible for our audience,
11:35that would be great.
11:37Just tell me what happened when your dad came home that day.
11:41The very first time that I heard about this at all.
11:46Okay. Daddy came home from work.
11:51They worked shifts of a type that they would be on duty maybe 24 hours or 36 hours,
11:59and then off 8 or 12, like that.
12:02So we hadn't seen him for a time.
12:05He got home that evening, and he came in so excited.
12:09I was in the kitchen with Mother.
12:12He asked Mother, he said, I've got something I want to tell everybody.
12:17Get everybody in here.
12:19We're cooking supper right now.
12:21And he said, well, how long is it going to be?
12:23Because I've got to talk to everybody.
12:26And it was just my mother and myself and the three younger kids at home and my other sister was working.
12:32So we hurried and we got it on the table and called the kids in.
12:37And he started telling us that they had gone on a call of what they thought was going to be a plane crash north of Roswell.
12:48And he said they got called out to Blackwater Draw.
12:52And when they got out there, what they saw was not a plane that was our plane,
12:59but he said it was a flying craft from somewhere else.
13:07Well, we didn't ask questions, but Mother asked all the questions, and we were just listening.
13:12And she started, what do you mean somewhere else?
13:15It's not an airplane, he said. It's not from this world.
13:18Now here on this map are pinpointed locations where some 30 saucers have been sighted and are still unexplained.
13:26The following proposition could be established.
13:29There actually have been and may now be present in the Earth's atmosphere strange aerial objects.
13:36Some are of a geometric order.
13:39Others can only be described as brilliant light sources.
13:42Their form cannot be determined.
13:45He said the crash was like the flying saucers that they had talked about,
13:51because there had been a few comments on the news about flying saucers.
13:56And he said it was one of the flying saucers crashed.
14:01And I don't think really Mother believed him at first, and he said, no, I mean it.
14:08We went out there early today, which I don't know what time that was,
14:13but early to him could have meant they left before dark.
14:17And he said when they got there, they could see that there were two bodies
14:24that were laying on the ground outside of this craft, and that there was one, what he called, little person.
14:30And he said there's one little person that was walking around, and he said they were still alive.
14:39So she asked him, you know, what do they look like? Do they look like us?
14:46And he said they were very small, about the size of a small 10-year-old child.
14:53But the head looked like the little insect that we played with
14:58or that we saw around our house called Child of the Earth.
15:02We all knew what that looked like, so nobody asked any questions on that.
15:07We assumed that meant that the head was too large for the body,
15:12and it had no hair, and it would have large eyes.
15:17We knew that because that's what the Child of the Earth insect looks like.
15:22He said they looked quite a bit like us.
15:27He said they were a lot smaller than we are.
15:30Because when he said a small 10-year-old child, I knew he meant smaller than I was.
15:34And I wasn't very big at 12 years old. I was a little small for my age.
15:47And he said that the other two were dead and that this one that was alive was very sad.
15:55But he emphasized and he kept saying there's no need for us to be afraid.
16:00They're not here to hurt us.
16:02And he said we couldn't help them.
16:06And he was more upset over the fact that they couldn't help this little person.
16:11And that's something he really felt badly, that he couldn't help this one that was alive.
16:21He said you could feel the hurt from this little person
16:26that was so saddened by the death of the others with him.
16:33And apparently they hadn't been there but just a few minutes.
16:37And he said the military came up and they made them leave.
16:45And so they went back to the fire station.
16:49And he said there had not been a grass fire, which would have been their purpose for going.
16:54And they thought there could have been if it had been a normal plane crash.
16:59I don't think Mother really wanted to believe it at first.
17:03And he talked about how could we be so smug to think that we were the only ones that God could create.
17:12If he could create this earth, he could create a lot of others too.
17:18So that was just a conversation over dinner that night.
17:24And then there wasn't too much said about it for the next couple of days.
17:30Then I was at the fire station one afternoon because I'd gotten sick.
17:35I had to see the doctor and we only had one vehicle.
17:39So I went back to work with Daddy. He came home at noon and picked me up on his lunch.
17:44And I had gone to the doctor and was sitting in the kitchen part of the fire station.
17:51And I was eating a glass of ice chips.
17:56And the state policeman came in and he yelled at Daddy.
18:00He said, Hey, Dad, come over here and get all the guys. I want to show you guys something.
18:04The state policeman reached into his pocket.
18:07And he said, I don't think you guys got to see anything like this the other day.
18:12And he pulled his hand out of his pocket and it was closed up.
18:18He opened his hand over the table and dropped a piece of material that when it hit the table,
18:27it was all wadded up when it left his hand.
18:29And when it hit the table, it spread out like it was water.
18:34And they were asking him, you know, how'd you get by with this?
18:39And he said, well, he had helped with some of the pickup of debris.
18:45And he had managed to sneak that one piece in his pocket.
18:49He said, I don't know how long I'll get to keep this before I get caught.
18:53Because he said, everybody they catch, they're taking away whatever they've got.
18:57Last count, I had spoken to around four dozen people who handled various aspects of the debris.
19:06The most dramatic is the foil-like material that you could wad up in a ball and let it go and it would unfold itself.
19:14A lot of people reported that.
19:16What kind of material did we have in 1947 that had those properties?
19:22There were things like foil backed with cloth that when you wadded up, it would tend to unfold itself somewhat.
19:29But there were always the signs of creases.
19:31And some of the people were very specific.
19:32There was no sign of a crease or a fold in this thing when it was let down.
19:37After a while, they tried to burn it.
19:40Almost all of them carried the large, the old-fashioned lighters.
19:46They tried to burn it and they couldn't burn it.
19:49It wouldn't catch on fire.
19:50And they took out their pocket knives and they tried to cut it and they couldn't cut it.
19:56So they got into a discussion as to how bad a force it must have been to tear this piece of material.
20:07And they talked about whether it came from the inside of the ship or the outside or wadded.
20:13Of course, nobody knew where it came from.
20:17And while they were talking, I guess they all had their chance to play with it for a while and it was laying on the table.
20:23So I reached over and picked it up.
20:26And I played for probably about five minutes.
20:30And I tried everything they had done with the wadding it up.
20:34When you would wad it up in your hand, you couldn't feel it in your hand.
20:37You couldn't feel you had anything there.
20:40And it would go to a size that was so small that you'd have to look to see if it was still in your hand.
20:48And then when you dropped it, it spread out all over the table.
20:51It made no noise, no sound of any kind.
20:56It was just like it was nothing.
20:59It was like you were meshing air together.
21:02Oh, absolutely not.
21:04No, we didn't scrape aluminum foil off of everything for the war effort.
21:08No, I knew aluminum foil.
21:10No, this definitely wasn't.
21:13I didn't realize the significance of it at the time.
21:18No, I just knew it was different than anything I'd ever seen before.
21:23So I forgot all about it after that.
21:32The Foster Ranch
21:40Something came down during the first week of July 1947 on what's known as the Foster Ranch.
21:47A man named Matt Brazel was the foreman of that ranch, and he was out checking his sheep.
21:53He found all this strange debris.
21:55He brought it by his neighbors the next day.
21:58They suggested he go into the sheriff with it.
22:01He went into Roswell, which was a big journey.
22:04This was about 70 miles north-northwest of Roswell.
22:07The sheriff, George Wilcox, called the local air base Roswell Army Airfield.
22:13Two officers were dispatched, Jesse Marcel Sr. and Sheridan Cavett, a CIC officer.
22:21Matt Brazel shows them the debris field.
22:23Clearly, it's just metallic debris.
22:25The question I posed to a number of people, why didn't they react differently?
22:28And the answer's always been because they knew there was only one.
22:30They knew there was a single craft.
22:31They knew there was a single crash.
22:33They had it all contained.
22:34They took a calculated risk.
22:36Matt Brazel found some of the same stuff, but they knew it wasn't a craft itself.
22:40They knew it was just debris.
22:44They loaded pieces of debris into the Jeep.
22:46By the time he got back to the vicinity of the air base, it was close to midnight.
22:51He stopped by his house to show his wife and 11-year-old son, Jesse Jr., this unusual debris.
22:58Well, Jesse Jr. now is an M.D.
23:03He's a colonel in the Montana Air National Guard.
23:10He's a helicopter pilot.
23:13He was standing flute choppers in Vietnam.
23:16Very stable individual.
23:19The type of person that is seeking no notoriety, has no axe to grind on this,
23:26I think to a great extent he participates in these things to see if he can't help get the truth out.
23:36I think this is what a bulk of us are doing.
23:40We're not, we have nothing to gain by doing this.
23:47My father was on the intelligence team at the Roswell Army Airfield,
23:51and it was his job to look at what they thought was a crashed aircraft
23:55or crashed something out there out of Roswell.
23:59When he came in, he was very excited.
24:01He woke my mother and myself up.
24:03It must have been 1 or 2 o'clock in the morning,
24:05and he wanted us to see what he was bringing in from the field.
24:10He said, this is parts of a flying saucer.
24:13It was all brought in and spread out on the kitchen floor, and we just looked at it.
24:19I picked up this particular I-beam and held it up to my upper left to look at it
24:24with the kitchen light reflecting on the inner surface,
24:27and that's when I saw the writing or the symbols of some sort.
24:32I thought at first, this is hieroglyphics or some kind of writing like that.
24:37It certainly looked alien to me.
24:43Okay, well, yeah, just tell me what to do,
24:46because I don't know how much of me you've got in the picture or anything.
24:49This was developed with the help of Jesse Marcel, Jr. and Kent Jeffrey.
24:55This is a replica of what was picked up off of the desert by Major Jesse Marcel back in 1947.
25:03The one I saw was probably greatest 3-8 of an inch in cross-sectional diameter, 12 to 18 inches long.
25:11Actually, the material that I saw almost resembled something that could have been blown out through the side of the craft,
25:18like there was an in-flight explosion just spreading debris or blowing debris out of the side.
25:27There is a debris field.
25:29It's three-quarters of a mile long, 300 feet wide, according to Jesse Marcel, loaded with this metallic debris.
25:35Mack Brazel describes it, the debris being thick enough the sheep won't cross it.
25:40There's clearly a lot of debris.
25:41Bill Brazel talks about a gouge down through the center, 500 feet long, 10 feet at its widest.
25:46We don't pretend to understand the mechanism of the shedding of this massive amount of debris in one area
25:52and the craft impacting much closer to Roswell.
25:54It's a much smaller craft, 15 to 20 feet wide, maybe 25 feet long, more or less intact.
26:03There seems to be some sort of damage to it, and there was some debris scattered on the impact site itself.
26:07But I don't begin to understand the mechanism for the shedding of that much debris in one area
26:11and the craft being more or less intact in the other area, unless there's some kind of an outer shell that it shed.
26:16Or this was some kind of an escape capsule, and the entire craft disintegrated, and this is how they attempted to get out.
26:22We just do not understand that, and we have to speculate about it.
26:26Something crashed into the desert outside Roswell in 1947,
26:31and the ham-fisted fashion in which the U.S. Air Force handled the incident
26:35convinced a great many people that it was a flying saucer
26:39and that at least one alien creature was recovered from the crash site.
26:44It is precisely the mixture of religion, science, superstition, and folklore, intelligence, and ignorance
26:51that has produced among Americans an entire subculture of belief in extraterrestrial life.
26:58It has gotten old, like anything else.
27:02It has become a job, a task, no longer an exciting experience.
27:13My name is Walter G. The G stands for George Haught.
27:18H-A-U-T. You ought to remember Haught.
27:28I'm not the only one. There are other people that have been involved in this
27:33that are in the same position.
27:38We're not paid a penny for anything.
27:42The only reason we're doing this is to try and get as much of the truth out as we can
27:49while some of us are still alive.
27:54You've got to look at the age group that was out at the base at that time.
27:59So many of the people that had been doing the legwork, so to speak, were in their 20s.
28:06I was one of them.
28:10At the base, I was a crew member, navigator-bombardier.
28:16That was my primary duty assignment.
28:19My secondary was as public relations officer for Roswell Army Airfield
28:25and the 509th Bomb Group.
28:28The 509th Bomb Group, incidentally, was a very elite group.
28:32It was the only atomic bomb group in the world at the time.
28:36The 509th Bomb Group was originally organized during World War II.
28:42Their mission was to drop the atomic bombs on Japan.
28:49We also dropped the bomb on Bikini.
29:00The organization was pretty much of a tight-lipped organization.
29:04By the time you get to Roswell in 1947, it's the only atomic strike force in the world.
29:10They're training people to begin other atomic bombing groups in the Air Force.
29:17If you became the commander of the 509th Bomb Group,
29:20you inevitably were promoted out of the job and became a general.
29:25It was the premier group in the Air Force in 1947.
29:32Today's edition presents a roundup of the latest developments in the finding of a flying disk.
29:37I was called to headquarters, was given copies of a press release
29:43which stated in essence that we had in our possession a flying disk.
29:51The Army may be getting to the bottom of all this talk about the so-called flying saucers.
29:56As a matter of fact, the 509th Atomic Bomb Group headquarters at Roswell, New Mexico,
30:01reports that it has received one of the disks which landed on a ranch outside Roswell.
30:07From what we know, it was shown to William Blanchard in the morning
30:12about 12 o'clock at noon a press release was issued by Blanchard.
30:17My father is a 30-year retired Air Force colonel, a World War II fighter ace,
30:22and he knew and worked with William Blanchard in the early 1960s.
30:28And according to my father, Blanchard was no fool.
30:32Blanchard was not the kind of man to put out a press release about something so dramatic as a crashed UFO
30:40without being absolutely certain he was correct.
30:43In other words, if Blanchard said there was a crashed disk, there was a crashed disk.
30:50Colonel William Blanchard of the Roswell Air Base refuses to give details of what the flying disk looks like.
30:58The media here was localized media.
31:02You had a radio station of 250 watts.
31:04If you were outside of town, you basically didn't get it.
31:06You had a second radio station of equal size.
31:08You had two newspapers.
31:10You could control the media very carefully.
31:14It strikes me as odd in today's environment to hear a radio station owner tell me
31:20that the FCC would call and say, if you broadcast this story, you will lose your license,
31:25and they don't tell the FCC to go play with themselves and broadcast the story anyway.
31:31They suppressed the story, and they were able to suppress the story.
31:34They were able to do what they needed to do to suppress it.
31:36This was a military town in 1947.
31:39The Army Air Forces has announced that a flying disk has been found
31:43and is now in the possession of the Army.
31:45Army officers say the missile, found sometime last week,
31:48has been inspected at Roswell, New Mexico, and sent to Wright Field, Ohio, for further inspection.
31:54We have the military moving in, cleaning all of that material up.
31:58Walter Haught issues his press release saying we've got a flying saucer.
32:02I was told to hand deliver to the four news media we had in town at that time.
32:09We had two radio stations and two newspapers.
32:12After I had lunch, I went back out to the base.
32:16First phone call that I got when I got back to the office, a fellow from London, England.
32:23His interest was why did we put out the press release in the manner we did,
32:30and how did Major Marcel know how to fly this object?
32:36I had to explain to him that the press release was put out on orders of the base commander, number one,
32:42and number two, Major Marcel did not fly this object.
32:47He took this material and put it on an airplane, and the airplane was flown forward.
32:53The phone rang and rang and rang and rang until I would guess somewhere around 4.30.
33:06I got home somewhere around 5 o'clock.
33:09That was the end of it.
33:12The next morning when I went out and picked up the newspaper,
33:18it said the headline that General Ramey emptied our saucer.
33:25The story was done.
33:28Ramey says that so far as can be determined, no one saw the object in the air,
33:43and he describes it as being made of some sort of tin foil.
33:49That was aluminum foil or a foil of some kind.
33:54He used the material just so that the material that he brought into Ramey's office
33:59was not what he was photographed with.
34:03That was more of the cover-up.
34:06I believe he said, I didn't want to be a liar about this,
34:10but I was told this is what you're going to do.
34:13When the general tells you, you did it. Simple.
34:17Jesse Marcel, in fact, told a number of people that it was a weather balloon.
34:22He had shown the picture in the book.
34:25He said, that's not the stuff I brought home.
34:27When he came back from Carswell, after flying the debris,
34:31he did tell me not to talk about this, tell my mother not to talk about this.
34:35This is a non-event. Play like it never happened.
34:37Don't even talk about this with your friends, which I didn't.
34:40Years later, he confided that he was actually part of the cover-up
34:45because he went along with the Air Force explanation,
34:49even though he knew full well that that was not true.
34:52What do you think about the weather balloon story?
34:57I think it's been a lie from the beginning.
35:01But they have to cover up some way.
35:06It was no weather balloon.
35:08My dad would not have gotten excited over a weather balloon.
35:12He was not easily excitable.
35:14And this is the most thrilled I'd ever seen him in my life.
35:18He thought that was the most fantastic thing in the world.
35:21Roswell was a brainwashed town.
35:24When the government said it was not a flying saucer,
35:27there were no space people here, it was a weather balloon,
35:32the people in Roswell said, OK, it's a weather balloon.
35:37Roswell seems to be the first event like this
35:41because they were simply not prepared.
35:43So we've got a lot of interest in this area.
35:46The lid is slowly being shut down.
35:48And it's absolutely brilliant what they did.
35:51They announced they have a flying saucer,
35:55but they've already captured it, they've already got it.
35:57There's nothing to see, so nobody goes out looking for the thing.
36:00Then they shift everything to Fort Worth.
36:02The higher headquarters says, no, no, those guys made a mistake,
36:04it was just a weather balloon.
36:06The press can't find Jesse Marcel because he's in Fort Worth
36:09and he's been silenced.
36:11They can't find Mac Brazzo because he's held at the guest house here at the base.
36:14All the people they can find, General Ramey,
36:17General Ramey is saying it's a weather balloon.
36:19Colonel Blanchard suddenly goes on leave on Tuesday.
36:22So you can't get a hold of anybody.
36:24Blanchard's gone, Marcel's gone, the rancher's gone.
36:27All you can get are official spokesmen saying, yeah, it's a weather balloon.
36:29The press has got nowhere to go.
36:31The story dies at that point.
36:33Nothing to go on.
36:35And everybody forgets about it until Jesse Marcel says,
36:39I picked up pieces of a flying saucer.
36:42So other than those people that had any immediate access to the material
36:48and handled it or saw it, the story was over.
36:52We had made a mistake.
36:58Fear will do a lot of things.
37:01And that was fear.
37:05In 1947, it was much easier to intimidate a child than it is in today's world.
37:14We were not exposed to things like TV.
37:17We didn't have a TV in 1947.
37:20And it was just, we were a very patriotic town.
37:26If we were told you don't do something for government safety,
37:30the safety of your country, we didn't do it.
37:34I'm not sure what the time span was.
37:38Maybe three days, maybe four.
37:40It could have been less.
37:41It could have been more.
37:43But I was at home, and a car came driving up the driveway,
37:48and we had a pretty long driveway.
37:50It was a military car.
37:54And Mother and I walked to the door.
37:59And Mother and I walked to the door.
38:03They knocked on the door, and I answered the door.
38:07And Mother was beside me, and he told Mother who he was
38:13and that he wanted to talk to the girl that had been down at the fire station.
38:23And so she told him it was me.
38:27So he came in.
38:30And we started to sit down in the living room, and he said,
38:34No, I want you to go in there in the dining room.
38:38You could see the dining room from the living room there.
38:42He told Mother to sit at the end of the table, and he told me to sit at the side.
38:46He positioned himself across the table, and he told us to sit down, and he stood.
38:57And he said, I understand you were at the fire station the other day.
39:02And I told him, Yes, I was.
39:05And he started out by saying,
39:09I want you to understand that you were never there.
39:13And I didn't understand what he meant,
39:16because this was kind of not a way of talking that we were accustomed to.
39:23And I said, Yes, I was there.
39:27And he said, No, you weren't.
39:30And I said, Yeah, I was there.
39:32And he had mentioned at first that he wanted to see the one who had seen the piece of material
39:39that they had been handling down at the station.
39:44I said, Yes, I did handle it.
39:47Then he started emphasizing, No, you didn't.
39:51Well, my mother was pretty strict, and we didn't lie.
39:55So I'm insistent that, Yes, I saw it.
39:57Yes, I held it.
39:59And he got mad, and the more I insisted I had seen it.
40:05He didn't just come out and say, This is not something you're going to be allowed to talk about.
40:10He was trying to get it through my head that I never saw it.
40:15And he got louder.
40:17And he had one of those, looks like a small baseball bat that hooks on the side of your belt.
40:25And he took that out, and he's holding it, and he starts beating his hand.
40:29Every time he said something, he would hit that on his hand.
40:33And he would say, I want you to understand, you were never there.
40:39You did not see anything.
40:42You did not hear a conversation.
40:46And he said, If you can't understand this, there are things that we can do.
40:53He asked Mother, he said, Can she keep a secret?
40:56And Mother said, Yes.
40:58She said, Just tell her what you want her to do.
41:03And he said, Well, first of all, you've got to understand that if you ever talk about this the rest of your life,
41:13he said, there are things that we can do, and we'll do them now.
41:17We can take all of your kids.
41:20We will take you either to Orchard Park or to Artesia.
41:23Orchard Park was the German POW camp during World War II, and Artesia was the Japanese POW camp.
41:32And he said, But we don't have to do that.
41:35We don't even have to let you live.
41:37He said, We'd put you in one.
41:39We'd put your parents in the other one.
41:41We don't have to do that.
41:43He said, We can take you out here in the middle of this desert.
41:46He said, No one will ever find your bodies.
41:48No one will ever know what happened to you.
41:52And so he said, The only way I'm going to let you stay around or live is if you promise you'll never talk about this the rest of your life.
42:02So I told him I wouldn't.
42:05But that really was pretty much all that was involved.
42:10I was probably there at the house maybe 45 minutes to an hour.
42:15Mother sent me into the bedroom, and I don't know what he had to say to her afterwards.
42:21One of the other military police that was with him stayed in the backyard with the younger kids so they didn't come in the house while he was there.
42:30And I never discussed it again until recently.
42:38And I'm sorry.
42:42Someday, I will get over it.
42:45I haven't yet.
42:47Your mother must have had a hard time explaining to you.
42:50Obviously, you were raised to be honest.
42:52She never talked to us about it, never.
42:54It was never mentioned again.
42:56From the time you came walking out of your bedroom?
42:59From the time I went to the bedroom until the day she died, we never mentioned it.
43:05There was no conversation.
43:09What about your father?
43:11I never talked to him about it either.
43:13I'm sure they must have talked to him down at the station.
43:17He must have gotten a good talking to.
43:19I imagine he did.
43:22Excuse me just a moment.
43:24That's all right.
43:26Do you want a drink or something?
43:29No, I just wish this whole thing would go away.
43:34It doesn't go away.
43:42And it doesn't get any easier.
43:45Because every time that I tell somebody about it, I feel like I'm 12 years old again.
43:54I can see the guy standing there with his sunglasses on.
43:59And he never took his hat off and he never took his sunglasses off.
44:03Beating his hand with that stick and threatening us.
44:08And at the time he did it, it was okay.
44:11Because we'd been through the war, we understood.
44:15And I didn't realize it was intimidation.
44:20I had no idea what it was until probably the last five years actually.
44:28Because I never talked about it again.
44:30I never mentioned it to anybody.
44:33When this all came out and my kids found out about it, they were really upset with me.
44:38Why?
44:39Because I never told them about it.
44:42My husband was very upset with me about it too because I never told him about it.
44:49Kevin Randall.
44:52If we had Frankie Roe's story stand alone, I would be bothered by it.
44:58A 12-year-old girl who meets with military officers can certainly misconstrue what they're trying to tell her.
45:06Especially the way that they arrived at her house.
45:11We know the event took place because her sister corroborates it.
45:15Her sister corroborates her father's involvement.
45:17We have affidavits on that.
45:20So, yeah, I believe Frankie Roe's story.
45:23I think that they did visit her and they did suggest the things she says they suggest.
45:28And I believe that because we know that others were intimidated in similar fashions.
45:33We have the military people telling us they were sworn to secrecy.
45:36All of this going on around it.
45:38So Frankie Roe is not stand alone.
45:40There's corroborative testimony that suggests somebody was putting pressure on people to silence them.
45:46And they used what means were necessary to keep those people silent.
45:50With the military people, it was merely the threat of imprisonment and going to jail because they understood that.
45:55With some of the civilians, they were told that if you ever talk about it, you will be killed.
45:59One of the people, I forgot, Sheriff Wilcox, his family was told the same thing.
46:03That if he talked about it, not only would he be killed, his wife would be killed, and his daughters would be killed.
46:08The whole family would be wiped out.
46:10That comes from Sheriff Wilcox's granddaughter, Barbara Dugger, who heard the story from her grandmother.
46:16So we have a wide range of testimonies from various individuals telling us of the pressures that were placed on them to keep them silent.
46:24And I think they used the technique that was best for that specific group of individuals.
46:28The material that was found out on the debris field was secondary to the crash of the actual object on the night of the 4th of July.
46:47I have heard secondhand that there were alien bodies.
46:55My mother had a friend. I told you, she and I never talked about it again.
47:01She had a lady that would come out and visit with her occasionally, and this woman's husband was working out at the base.
47:08He was a painter, contracting to the government, and he was painting in the base hospital the day they brought them in.
47:16And he saw the one walking in.
47:19And I heard Mother and Ulamay talking about Herbert seeing the one that walked in, and that they brought others in on stretchers.
47:32And Mother said to Ulamay, did Herbert tell you what the face looks like? Because Dan said it looked like the child of the earth.
47:42And Ulamay said, that's what Herbert said.
47:46And of course they put them in this side room, but a bunch of guys are not going to just stand there.
47:54They're going to peek if they possibly can. And they looked.
47:58And I'm sure that probably Mother and Ulamay and maybe Daddy and Herbert, maybe there was more discussion than I know about, but not in my presence.
48:08It was the only reference I ever heard her make about that.
48:13But I think that was done before they came out to the house.
48:19Because after they came out to the house, I never heard another comment.
48:43The U.S. Air Force is about to tell us what it says happened.
48:46We're going over to the Pentagon now where Colonel John Haynes of the U.S. Air Force will tell us what happened.
48:52For some bizarre reason, the Air Force, which whenever you queried it about UFOs said we have no interest in UFOs.
48:59If you feel threatened by them, contact the local law enforcement.
49:02Decided they were going to reinvestigate the Roswell case.
49:05The conclusion of the first report left no doubt that what was recovered near Roswell, New Mexico, in July 1947,
49:11was debris from a formerly top-secret Army Air Force's research project codenamed Mogul.
49:18In 1947, they told us it was a balloon with a ray-wind target attached to it.
49:22They then looked at their documentation and said, well, we told a little white lie in 1947.
49:27Instead of just being a normal meteorological balloon, it was part of the array train for what was then classified,
49:34the classified project, Project Mogul.
49:36Mogul was an attempt to acoustically detect Soviet nuclear blasts and ballistic missile launches.
49:44The Air Force said that explains it. It's a highly classified project.
49:48The people at Roswell wouldn't have recognized the balloon. That's why it was covered up.
49:52We didn't want the people to get back to Project Mogul.
49:55Where this falls down is they have no documentation to prove what was picked up at Roswell was a Project Mogul balloon.
50:02The people at Roswell, Jesse Marcel, for example, the air intelligence officer, was part of Operations Crossroads,
50:08and we're told that the ray-wind targets in the meteorological balloons were used as part of the atomic testing,
50:15so he should have been familiar with the balloons.
50:17So you've got a situation where they're saying these guys with their fingers on the triggers, if you will,
50:22can't identify a balloon and are so hysterically possessed that they claim it's a flying saucer.
50:29They didn't review the tapes of Louis Rickett, the counterintelligence NCOIC at the base,
50:33who saw the debris and commented on it.
50:35They didn't review the tapes of Major Edwin Easley, who told me that he couldn't talk about it
50:41because it was still classified 47 years later.
50:44He told me a number of times in our first conversation, I can't talk about it. I was sworn to secrecy.
50:48They didn't even talk to Brigadier General Arthur Exxon, who reported that he flew over the two sites,
50:54two distinct sites, and reports the gouge. A balloon will not leave a gouge.
50:58So they didn't talk to the people I would think were key people.
51:01Instead, they talked to the people that are going to lead them directly to the Project Mogul explanation
51:05and let it go at that.
51:07They say this was a top-secret project, implying there was special equipment.
51:11It's a neoprene balloon and ray-wind targets.
51:14Ray-wind targets had been used for 20 years.
51:17At first, they were used because they reflected the sun and they could track them visually much easier.
51:22Now they were adapted to radar use.
51:25Irving Newton said they launched literally hundreds of them during the invasion of Okinawa.
51:29There's nothing special about these balloons, nothing at all.
51:32And by placing it with Project Mogul, we're implying that there was something unusual about these balloons,
51:39that there was something that would keep these people from identifying, but there wasn't.
51:43This is in reference to Charles Moore, who was the project engineer on Mogul.
51:49With respect to the neoprene rubber used on those meteorological balloons,
51:54and they were standard meteorological balloons,
51:57the idea that the Mogul array was something special or out of the ordinary is an illusion.
52:03But Moore explained to me the type of rubber, how thin it was.
52:08He actually compared it to a giant condom.
52:11He said it was very thin and that's what it looked like.
52:15And my response to that was, well, if that's the type of material that this resembled,
52:20it certainly isn't anything that would have fooled any members of the United States Armed Forces.
52:26Therefore, this was not a Mogul balloon.
52:40I don't know that the Air Force has ever explained what took them so long
52:44to say this is the explanation, if this is the explanation.
52:48When I sent the first request to the Secretary of Defense for a response about the Roswell incident,
52:55in view of the fact that there were these accusations, essentially of a government cover-up,
52:59the response I got was a very terse letter that said in about a sentence or two from the Air Force,
53:05we referred your letter to the National Archives, and that's all it said.
53:09The National Archives then said we don't have any information about the Roswell incident,
53:13which I was convinced the Defense Department had to know before they were sending me there.
53:18So in other words, I thought I was getting the runaround.
53:21They believe that the records, in fact, were destroyed more than four decades ago,
53:26so there's not an individual on the job now we can just call up and say, what happened to these records?
53:31And so the GAO has simply no further recommendations or ideas on how to go farther.
53:38The only records we're talking about being destroyed are communications from Roswell Army Airfield,
53:43509th, the only atomic bombing group in the world, out, out, moving messages.
53:48How about the analysis of the materials? How about the autopsy reports?
53:51How about the eyewitness testimony from those who stood guard, those who carried it,
53:55those who tested it in various government labs? There ought to be a ton of other paper.
54:00What happened to this? What happened to the one that was alive?
54:06I'm positive that there is information being withheld from the public domain concerning the Roswell event.
54:17There are a lot of things that our government hides, and it isn't right.
54:26They shouldn't, they especially shouldn't do it to a town like Roswell that was so supportive of every single thing that they did.
54:39The story is going to end one of these days because there's nobody going to be able to refute it or say anything about it.
54:56For more information, visit www.fema.gov
55:26www.fema.gov