On the next episode of Go to Bat, actor Alicia Vikander speaks with The Independent’s Jacob Stolworthy on Tudor feminism, the essential need for Intimacy Coaches on-set, and whether she has ever rewatched the film where she met her future husband Michael Fassbender.
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00:00You would have returned as Lara Croft, given the choice.
00:02Yeah, of course. I had so much fun.
00:04Yeah.
00:04Alicia, hello. How are you?
00:05Hi. I'm very good.
00:06I watched Firebrand last night.
00:08Cool.
00:09It's a good film. It's a good film.
00:10I think it's this series that I do here.
00:13It's called Goatsbane. It champions the, let's say,
00:16the things that we should be talking about more
00:18or hasn't had enough praise.
00:20And I think Katherine Park kind of fits the bill there
00:22because there's...
00:23Very much so.
00:23Yeah. There's like a lot there that I didn't realise
00:26when I was watching it.
00:27Yeah.
00:27I think she needs to be written about more.
00:28No, I mean, I felt the same thing when I read the script
00:32the first time.
00:33I felt like, you know...
00:34And I'm not even British. I didn't grow up here.
00:36It's the thing, though.
00:37It's like, you know, films, books, documentaries
00:39about Henry VIII.
00:41It's always told kind of through...
00:42We all know he's volatile, unpredictable.
00:45And it's kind of always told through the eyes
00:47of the aides around him.
00:50But when it's kind of told...
00:52When it's told through the eyes of one of his wives,
00:55it suddenly becomes quite clear.
00:57Wow.
00:57This is just like the ultimate abusive relationship.
01:00Yeah.
01:00And I think also, you know, with things throughout history,
01:02we kind of, you know, things were pretty grim
01:05and especially for this time.
01:07But we kind of like indulge in it.
01:09And we're like, yeah.
01:10And then there was another head thing.
01:11We're chopped off and...
01:13Yeah, the vibe in itself is almost like reducing it.
01:15Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:16No, totally.
01:17And I mean, I actually think that has happened
01:20a few times when I've done especially period dramas
01:23because the times were, you know, quite different and tough.
01:26But it's like when we actually shot it.
01:28And you obviously...
01:29Especially with how Karim wanted to attack
01:33this particular story and drama
01:35was from a very kind of domestic point of view.
01:38And when you kind of then, you know, strip it down
01:41and you're playing this woman
01:43with her kind of ladies-in-waiting
01:45and you're stuck in these two rooms
01:47practically all the time.
01:48And with people just, you know,
01:50are announced on a daily basis
01:52that are executed around you.
01:54And then having to navigate this relationship
01:58with this man daily
02:00and knowing that your life is at stake,
02:03you know, constantly.
02:05You know, it was kind of overwhelming
02:09when you started to shoot to kind of realise that.
02:11Every shot that you're in,
02:13I could sense this unease.
02:15Or you're trying to outwardly show,
02:18I've got this.
02:19But you know that any wrong word or movement
02:22could end your life.
02:24And that's a lot to convey just from your face.
02:27As an actor, how do you kind of go in and approach that?
02:29You know, we did have a lot of discussions
02:33between Karim, I and Jude
02:35and how we wanted to kind of, you know,
02:38tell something quite intimate and true.
02:42And I think that was something that we did kind of...
02:45That was a lot of the things that I was trying to discover
02:48during our time in rehearsals.
02:50And it was that kind of, like,
02:52the manipulation between them two.
02:55The kind of...
02:56The rules that they unknowingly kind of
02:58have already set up.
02:59Yeah.
03:00Her trying to, like, navigate him constantly
03:04and trying to, you know,
03:06always be one step ahead to keep him pleased.
03:11And I think that's also where I felt like
03:13I was able to kind of express the intelligence
03:17that I really kind of, you know,
03:19wanted to put forward.
03:21Because, you know, when you narrowed it down
03:25to the kind of obvious situation she was in
03:29and then to know that she actually managed
03:31to stay in this relationship for that many years,
03:34she was able to raise the children Elizabeth
03:38to become the woman and queen in the future.
03:42And if you look at the text that she actually published
03:45and the fact that she was the first ever woman
03:47in British history who published under her own name
03:50and no one seemed to know.
03:52I mean, I didn't.
03:53I didn't know that.
03:54And that she wrote then also about ideals and thoughts
03:58that towards Henry was extremely controversial.
04:02I mean, that itself is kind of just a big proof
04:04what she was capable of doing.
04:07And Jude Law as King Henry,
04:10at what point did you realise he was going to be
04:12playing your King Henry?
04:14He was already attached.
04:16Obviously that was a big thing too.
04:18Yeah.
04:19I mean, I kind of, I think, you know,
04:21he's proven so much, you know, throughout his career,
04:25you know, that he's made some incredible transformations
04:29and he's, you know, such a, you know, brilliant actor.
04:32And I just knew that I was up to, you know,
04:35that I was going to get to see something pretty remarkable
04:38and kind of unseen.
04:40Yeah.
04:41And so he was that excitement of, you know,
04:43having rehearsals, but then leading up to the first day,
04:46it was pretty incredible to see, you know,
04:48the fully formed version of his Henry walk on set.
04:52And of course the sex scenes,
04:53which are the most unsexiest sex scenes I've seen in a while.
04:56I mean, in terms of intimacy coordinator, choreography,
05:00how do you, like, is it just a, yeah, just roll with this?
05:03No, I mean, first of all, I mean, it's kind of interesting.
05:06I don't know how many actors I've had this conversation
05:08with now for the past couple of years.
05:10The fact that we do have intimacy coordinators,
05:13which it's like, you can't understand
05:16that you've gone to work before without them.
05:19Really?
05:20I mean, it's kind of like nuts.
05:21Yeah.
05:22You know, it's like a working situation.
05:24And often at the times, you know, it's actually like,
05:27and I think one thing that has actually shown,
05:30and I think we're quite a few of us that agree,
05:32it's actually sometimes the directors that are the most shocked
05:36because, you know, the intimacy coordinator
05:38will actually come into the room and say,
05:40okay, so can you now in front of everyone
05:42just tell us exactly what you want?
05:44And we'll listen to you first.
05:46And that's when you realise the director's like,
05:49yeah, so, you know, I think, you know,
05:52and that's exactly what it was.
05:54So very often actors would just put in a room and like,
05:57yeah, you know, I want this and, you know,
06:01and then they just kind of let you to whatever.
06:04Wow.
06:05And obviously that can create just the worst situations.
06:08And I think most, you know, including I was, you know, really tough.
06:12And I did a lot of them at quite a young age.
06:14Yeah.
06:15The beginning of my career.
06:16What year would you say up to that started changing?
06:18I mean, it was kind of during the whole Me Too era.
06:21That was suddenly when the world kind of flipped and like, oh.
06:24Realised it was a messed up situation.
06:26I mean, it goes with the fighting sequences or the physical scenes too.
06:30It's kind of, you do have intimacy and stunt coordinated for those too.
06:34Yeah.
06:35And it kind of is like stunts in that sense.
06:38Yeah.
06:39That it is very kind of prepared.
06:40You talk through every single step.
06:42You know, are you doing it?
06:44And then I think you can make some really interesting
06:47and valid like situations and scenes, hopefully.
06:50Definitely.
06:51It's like a safety blanket, essentially.
06:53You know, and it's interesting was like,
06:54you can talk about all the other scenes.
06:55So let's not sit down and be addled about this too.
06:59That's really interesting.
07:00Do you believe in hell?
07:02I think we're both bound for it.
07:05I'm ready.
07:07Are you?
07:11So this series, Go To Bet,
07:12we like to shine a light on films from your catalog that deserve more love.
07:18And do you want to tell us what you picked?
07:21Yeah.
07:22I mean, I thought, you know,
07:23it's so interesting to think what I would choose.
07:25But I went for the film that I think, you know,
07:29critics were like, you know, okay with.
07:32Yeah.
07:33You know, but it's probably one of the films like that
07:37that I've had the most people throughout these years
07:40who end up like, oh, I love that film.
07:42Or like, oh, I just want to say because, you know,
07:44and I said, oh, really?
07:46And that is The Light Between Oceans.
07:49Is that something that kind of surprises you?
07:51Yeah, I guess, you know, because something comes out
07:53and if it's not like, you know, he's backing around it,
07:56sometimes, you know, they kind of go away, you know, fast.
07:59So, you know, it felt like it was one of those films.
08:02And then I guess, you know, it's been 10 years
08:05and it's still one of those films that people tend to mention.
08:08Yeah.
08:09So you obviously had a lovely time filming it.
08:10Derek's in France.
08:11Yeah.
08:12I think there was a festival situation
08:14where there was embargoes broken with reviews that weren't.
08:17Oh, yes, at Venice.
08:18At Venice.
08:19That's true.
08:20And he kind of thought this was not a good thing to have done.
08:24And I agree with that.
08:25Yeah, before we went out to the premiere.
08:27Yeah.
08:28That's right.
08:29It's disheartening as hell.
08:30Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, especially, I think,
08:32the filmmakers who, you know, spend so many years leading up to it.
08:36And I mean, we all know that especially these big film festivals
08:39are kind of a celebration, a time for people to kind of come together
08:43and like, you know, really honour this piece of work
08:46that they spent a lot of time, especially for them, you know, years doing.
08:49Absolutely.
08:50Yeah.
08:51That's what people forget, right?
08:52Yeah, I forgot about that.
08:53It's just not a quick thing that they just cooked up.
08:55It's years of their life.
08:56Yeah.
08:57No, it's a really good film.
08:58I've re-watched it.
08:59I've seen it before.
09:00I re-watched it in advance of this.
09:02The chemistry between you and Michael Fassbender
09:04obviously is a big part of the film.
09:06Word.
09:07Yeah, well, you know.
09:09Was that, is that something you remember when you were making it?
09:12I mean, I haven't seen it since it came out.
09:14Really?
09:15No, I saw it in Venice.
09:17I think that's it, to be honest.
09:19Yeah.
09:20And I guess, you know, obviously it's one of those films that, you know,
09:24is going to be maybe sweet for if they want to see it one day,
09:28but our children.
09:29Yeah, absolutely.
09:30Yeah.
09:31Yeah, see the young versions of us when we met.
09:33What a nice rare position to be in.
09:35Yeah.
09:36See your parents just, you know.
09:37Yeah, I mean, I've thought about that too.
09:38Just the fact that not just with that film,
09:40but that they will be able to like track.
09:42Just track your.
09:43Yeah, yeah.
09:44And I, you know, when I did see it that I think, you know,
09:46what I love that Derek, what Derek did is he created something that to me
09:51felt like very kind of old fashioned, big, epic,
09:56like dramatic and romantic filmmaking.
09:59Yeah.
10:00Which I think I really appreciate.
10:02The film that I think deserved more love was your Tomb Raider.
10:04Oh, right.
10:05I thought that was great.
10:06And I was sad when I read that you might not be returning as Lara Croft.
10:09Yeah.
10:10Me too.
10:11Yeah.
10:12You would have returned as Lara Croft.
10:13Yeah, of course.
10:14I had so much fun.
10:15Yeah.
10:16You know.
10:17You can tell when you watch that film.
10:18Yeah.
10:19It's really fun.
10:20It's a really good film.
10:21Yeah.
10:22You're going to work.
10:23Oh, you have worked with Michael again on a film directed by,
10:25am I right?
10:26The director of The Wailing.
10:27Hong Jin Noh.
10:28What the hell?
10:29Isn't that an amazing film?
10:30It's one of my favorite films.
10:31Absolutely.
10:32It's incredible.
10:33He came aboard to maybe like do a film that I was developing.
10:36And I was like kind of over the moon thinking also because he's such an
10:40auteur.
10:41He only writes and directs certain films.
10:42And then he in a very nice way kind of came back and said,
10:45I'm so sorry.
10:46I'm not going to be able to do it because I had this crazy like big epic
10:51film that I've had in my head for like over 10 years.
10:55And obviously I was never going to get to make it because it's too big.
10:59Yeah.
11:00And then apparently they're going to throw money at me now.
11:02And I was like, wow.
11:04But also, okay.
11:06I'm like, well, that's okay.
11:09But totally understood it, obviously.
11:12But then like two years after that, he came back and said,
11:16well, it is happening now.
11:17And do you want to be a part of it?
11:19This is great.
11:21You remembered.
11:22This is brilliant.
11:23You put something out in the universe and it comes back.
11:24I can't wait to see it.
11:26Busan Film Festival, which is the biggest Asian film festival in South Korea.
11:33That was my first ever film festival outside of Sweden that I ever went to.
11:38Really?
11:3921 years old.
11:40And I kind of like, you know,
11:42back then it was most people didn't even know that festival,
11:46even in like the film industry here in the West.
11:48Yeah.
11:49And I wanted to saw films for six days and I was like,
11:52almost like a whole new universe.
11:54And that was also when this like hope or dream that felt so distant,
11:59but like, oh, I would love to go.
12:01Just very quickly working with Michael.
12:03What does it bring?
12:04Does it bring a first hand when you're on set that you might not necessarily have
12:08with an actor you've not met before?
12:10You know, we're obviously like, he's like, you know,
12:14my best friend and my partner and love and all those things.
12:18But he's like, I think he's one of the best actors of his generation.
12:24So, you know, that feeling of obviously getting to work with him
12:28and see him in action and kind of have to like, you know,
12:32go up against that.
12:34It's boring, you know,
12:36cause it's kind of like,
12:37it's not a fight when people are going to get hurt and it's not about beating the
12:41other one, but it is about like pushing it.
12:43Well, I think we run out of time.
12:45I wanted to find out what your go to bat would have been for a film that you
12:47just love generally.
12:48So if you want to quickly mention that,
12:50no worries if you don't have an answer.
12:52I mean, no, I mean, Ex Machina.
12:54I absolutely love.
12:55I mean, and I think a lot of other people like it too.
12:59I mean, I saw Civil War again this year and I love that film too.
13:03So, so, you know, it kind of brought me,
13:05but I was just so happy for Alex.
13:08He's brilliant.
13:09What a guy.
13:10What a guy.
13:11Yeah.
13:12Ex Machina was my first ever poster quote.
13:14Oh, really?
13:15Three incredible performances.
13:17You were one of the incredible ones as well.
13:19Listen, thank you so much for your time today.
13:21Congratulations on Firebrands.
13:24I can't wait for the world to see it.
13:25And thank you for your openness about the light between oceans.
13:28Yeah.