Andrew and Adam are the creators of Ghostlore - an action-RPG where players can take on supernatural monsters from Southeast-Asian folklore. We find out how this two-man team created one of Singapore’s most successful indie games.
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00:00But like you know this like UI kind of stuff you can do better here and you can do better
00:05so I guess I was very direct with him and in hindsight it was probably not the best way to meet someone.
00:10Ghost Lore is a game developed by me and Adam with me being the one who originally came up with the idea.
00:31It is a retro game made in the style of games that came out in the 90s like Diablo 1 and 2.
00:37But instead of like in Diablo where you are fighting western demons right we're having like
00:43angels and demons and all that stuff right it's more of like an Asian flavor and it's more
00:48it's more focused on the demons that are found in Singaporean, Southeast Asian folklore such as the
00:55the Toyos and of course the Jiangshi, the Chinese hopping vampire.
01:00Hi I'm Andrew.
01:01Hi I'm Adam.
01:02And we are the creators of Ghost Lore.
01:05When I first saw Andrew post about Ghost Lore on Reddit
01:09I thought it was a really interesting idea and I also thought that
01:13it was something I could really help him with because he was not very strong technically
01:18and I thought I could contribute in that way to make sure that it reached its full potential.
01:24So I messaged him I was like okay like I'm interested in this game I want to work with you on it and we met up.
01:31Adam because after seeing the Reddit post he actually sent me a DM and and asked me
01:38hey you know would I'm a programmer would you like to collaborate on this game so
01:44at the time I thought I guess there's no harm in meeting a new person.
01:49So when I first met Andrew I was like criticizing like part of the game I was like saying that
01:54okay this is like great but like you know this like UI kind of stuff you can do better here
01:59and you can do better so I guess I was very direct with him and in hindsight it was probably
02:04not the best way to to meet someone so Ghost Lore has very much been an online production I guess so
02:10I've actually barely met Andrew in real life we only meet just to hang out basically and most of
02:15the work is done online on Discord and that's how we met Sarah as well so she's just someone who's
02:21been really successful in the US and she just wants to give back to the indie gaming scene in Singapore
02:29and so she's been helping us with Ghost Lore's marketing as well online.
02:33Hey Sarah!
02:34Hi Sarah!
02:35How are you?
02:36How are you doing?
02:37I'm good I'm good nice to see you guys again.
02:40How are you all?
02:41Yeah good good.
02:42How's the Discord for Ghost Lore going?
02:47It's getting a bit chattier in recent weeks which is always nice to see.
02:52It's going to be like more the bigger publications maybe like newspapers
02:56versus streamers and it's going to be more targeted towards like the local people.
03:09Welcome to my house this is where we started working on Ghost Lore.
03:13We usually have meetings here.
03:15So this was something which I worked on around the same time as Ghost Lore because I guess I
03:20like building things in general so this is something we did from scratch.
03:25I actually built all the wood by myself.
03:31Welcome to my kitchen.
03:34Usually after working on Ghost Lore we might like cook a meal together to eat together and
03:39I do like to eat chai tau kueh.
03:41This is my office and most of the programming work for Ghost Lore is done here.
03:53It is actually very very difficult to say what a good game actually is because what we think about
04:02actually is because what we think about as games right or video games in particular
04:10are actually a very very wide range of activities.
04:14You would find that it's a bit like trying to compare basketball with chess with solitaire.
04:21To me a game that is a game that is actually good will be one that is
04:27easy to learn but difficult to master.
04:30So for me to create games which are easy to play but difficult to master
04:36from a very simple rule set there can be a lot of strategies.
04:41This is actually something that I try and design in my own games.
04:51So actually the game is 2D but it still looks 3D.
04:55We are a very very like retro game.
04:57We sought to be very very faithful to that look.
05:01Not only did we try to replicate the look just from the outside looking in
05:04but we also tried to replicate the workflow that they were using back in the 90s
05:11in order to make the game look very very faithful.
05:13Right now they could equip a variety of weapons that are also inspired by some of the local weapon sites.
05:17For example you got the parang here, you got the kukris which is kind of like the
05:22I think it's more commonly known as the Gurkha blade and you have those magic paper talismans
05:27and you have the kris which is the very very distinctive curved sword.
05:32One thing that players were asking us about was that
05:35you know why are the characters all just you know dressed in black?
05:38You know I cannot change the look of my characters.
05:40So what I did was I actually went back to go in to actually create
05:44kind of like different styles of clothing for the 3D model.
05:47So now based on this right Adam has actually created a software that will actually
05:54like randomize the colors of the clothing.
05:56So I don't have to do it by hand.
06:02Something I'm passionate about for Ghost Lore is the procedural generation in Ghost Lore.
06:07So it's something we put quite a lot of effort in
06:10and something which is I think quite true to the roots of Diablo-likes.
06:14The maps are all procedurally generated which means that the computer generates it each time
06:20and every time you play like the map is made from scratch.
06:24So all the artwork which Andrew does is it makes it very fresh each time
06:30even though it's the same few pieces of artwork every time
06:33but every time you play it's something completely different.
06:40When we launched the game I had a like small kind of party at my place
06:44and it was quite funny because like Andrew was really really stressed about it.
06:50Like I don't even know what to say about that.
06:52Everyone was just like are you okay dude like are you okay
06:55and like he just locked himself in the room the whole night
06:58and he was just like oh my goodness like what if this person hates the game
07:01and like you know like no one's gonna like the game
07:04and there was nothing anyone could do to get him out of the room.
07:07When the game launched and like there were a lot of sales
07:11and there were a lot of positive review and positive press
07:14I felt a tremendous amount of relief that I was wrong about my own game
07:19and Adam was right about it.
07:20Adam and I we complement each other well in terms of our skill sets
07:27because I am the artist and he is the programmer.
07:31Sometimes we also may disagree with each other about some things
07:37but we do not consider this to be a bad thing necessarily.
07:40We consider it to be a part of our how we complement each other
07:43because you know we have a broader perspective of the issue.
07:49So fortunately I think both of us are even if we may disagree
07:55we are still willing to change our minds
07:58as long as the other person can provide good evidence
08:02for why we should make a certain decision.
08:05I would say that I am a very very perfectionistic person
08:10compared to Adam who I feel is a more flexible thinker.
08:15I think I've been very lucky like working with Andrew
08:17because in some ways we are very similar people.
08:21We are both very introverted people.
08:23We both do not deal well with like talking with a lot of people
08:27and we are both very direct like you know to the point
08:30like if you ask me or Andrew like what do you think about this
08:34I'll just tell you like no it's terrible or like you know it's bad
08:37and obviously you cannot do that when you are working with everyone
08:42because people will just be really like angry with you.
08:45So that's something which we really share in common
08:48and in other ways we are also very like dissimilar
08:51because Andrew I guess is an artist and I'm a programmer
08:54and like it's just very different the way we think about things
08:58but at the end of the day we can go back and we can sleep on it
09:01and the next day we'll just be like okay yeah
09:03you have a point in this and we can compromise in between
09:06and like that really is very like lucky I guess.
09:09We actually have thought a little bit about
09:11whether we want to expand the company
09:14whether you want to do the full-on video game company
09:17and hire people and deal with all of that
09:21and it's very scary because once you do that
09:24you have like a lot of responsibility
09:26and we're not sure whether that's worth it
09:29and like I think my parents would be very happy to do that
09:32but like it's just like maybe it's not for us you know
09:35like so we were kind of undecided and I guess we'll see
09:39like whether we want to go for that path
09:42but I think it's also like a very valid path
09:46to just want to do your craft
09:48like to just want to be like a craftsman
09:51for like okay I'm going to be a really good programmer
09:54and I think that's kind of underrated especially in Singapore
09:57where like everyone thinks that okay to be like successful
10:01you need to be the next CEO
10:02or you need to be the next like Simone Koon or something
10:06I think it's fine to just be like
10:07okay I'm going to be a really good programmer
10:08I'm going to be a really good chef
10:10or I'm going to be a really good artist
10:11and like you know I think that might be a path
10:14it might not be I don't know