Agility Robotics CEO Wants Humanoid Robots To Do The Jobs People Won't

Forbes

Agility Robotics CEO Peggy Johnson sees opportunity in an American labor shortage. The company's humanoid robots have already been put to work commercially. Johnson doesn't think they'll displace human workers, she tells Forbes, but rather make them more productive.  Peggy Johnson has forged a unique “over 50” career: She was Satya Nadella’s first hire when he took over Microsoft in 2014 and, from 2020 until last year, she ran augmented reality company Magic Leap. Today, Johnson helms Agility Robotics (total funding: $180 million to-date), which makes human-like robots to work in America’s warehouses. “In the logistics area alone, there are over a million jobs that are going unfilled,” she says. “It makes sense to put a humanoid robot into these spots.”  Read the full story on Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/maggiemcgrath/2024/08/01/50-over-50-innovation/  Subscribe to FORBES: https://www.youtube.com/user/Forbes?sub_confirmation=1  Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:  https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript  Stay Connected Forbes newsletters: https://newsletters.editorial.forbes.com Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes More From Forbes:  http://forbes.com  Forbes covers the intersection of entrepreneurship, wealth, technology, business and lifestyle with a focus on people and success.

Transcript

00:00Peggy Johnson, thank you so much for sitting down with Forbes.

00:12Thank you so much for having me, Maggie.

00:14You are the CEO of Agility Robotics.

00:18You sit at the helm of an industry that Goldman Sachs expects to generate $38 billion by 2035.

00:25That is a lot of money.

00:27Tell us, what is Agility Robotics?

00:30What do you do?

00:32Agility Robotics is a humanoid robot company.

00:35So it's a robot that stands as tall as a person.

00:39It has arms and legs and a head.

00:42And it can operate in environments that humans operate in.

00:47So what are those environments?

00:48Where?

00:49And it's called Digit, correct?

00:50Digit is the name of the robot.

00:52And there's a lot of places in our worlds that were built for humans.

00:58So shelves are only a certain height, as tall as humans can reach or as low as humans can

01:04reach.

01:05Aisles down a corridor are a certain width for humans to walk down.

01:11And so there are tasks in those environments that Digit can step in and operate in, where

01:19other perhaps types of robots might not be viable in those areas.

01:24They might be too big, or they can't reach high enough up.

01:27So that's what makes humanoid robots purpose-built for those situations.

01:32So what you're describing sounds like warehouses, factories, manufacturing.

01:37Is that the primary sector in which you're operating?

01:39Today it is.

01:40Those are the areas that first have a big demand for labor.

01:45It's hard to fill these kinds of jobs.

01:48And already they have quite a bit of automation in those big warehouses.

01:54But they tend to be islands of automation.

01:56So you'll find a conveyor belt bringing product along.

02:00The product then needs to be picked up by a human and sent over onto perhaps an autonomous

02:06robot that zips it down a corridor.

02:09And so those are the areas where humanoid robots can step in and take over some of these

02:15very repetitive tasks that humans are still doing today.

02:18So it'll be the connector between these islands of automation.

02:21Interesting.

02:22What other applications are there for Digit and for Agility's products?

02:27So Digit is a multi-purpose robot.

02:30And although we're starting in the logistics area because the demand is so high there,

02:35Digit can learn new skills.

02:37It can operate in the healthcare industry, retail, transportation.

02:42There's a whole world out there.

02:44But we're starting where the demand is highest and where we have the current feature set

02:49that can meet that demand.

02:51But AI now will be able to help us teach Digit new skills very quickly to move into these

02:56other markets.

02:57I have so many follow-up questions.

02:59Let's start with healthcare because we hear so much about the shortages of doctors and

03:03nurses and the burnout rates.

03:07Are robots going to be my primary care practitioner soon?

03:12I think you'll never take a human out of the loop, but you can really see a robot coming

03:18in and maybe just doing some of the task work that happens inside of an operating room or

03:25inside of a doctor's office.

03:27Just bringing instruments to the doctor, not perhaps doing everything the doctor does.

03:34And certainly there's an empathy side that you want to keep in the loop.

03:39But a lot of the other tasks that nurses and other healthcare personnel find to be a bit

03:47of a drudgery part of their job, you can see a robot stepping in and taking that, leaving

03:52the human to do this part of the job that they really enjoy most.

03:56Which hopefully is talking to people in another way than a robot would.

04:00Now, you mentioned demand, and I'm really curious.

04:03What does demand for Digit from corporations tell you about the state of the economy and

04:08the general supply of labor in this country?

04:11Well, we're in a tough situation because these jobs in the logistics area alone, there's

04:18over a million jobs that are going unfilled.

04:21So we can't find people right now to step into these jobs.

04:25And that number has been accelerating.

04:27It was about 600,000 just a few years back.

04:31Part of what's going on in the logistics area is we all love our next day delivery or two

04:35day delivery.

04:36And that puts a heavy burden on these logistics facilities to turn product around quickly

04:41and get it shipped out the door.

04:43And so the more that becomes an expectation for each of us, the more of a burden it comes

04:51on to that logistics facility to find somebody to step into those roles.

04:55So in that area alone, the demand is great and growing.

05:00And you can see very much a replication of that across other industries.

05:04So right now, when you look across industries, it's almost uncapped, the need for some device

05:10to step in and take over these sorts of jobs.

05:13Because the people just aren't filling those jobs.

05:16Right.

05:17And you really can think of these as tasks.

05:20They're parts of jobs that somebody has to do for a certain amount of their eight hour

05:25shift.

05:26And I almost don't even want to call it a job because it's just something that has to

05:30get done.

05:31You want to free people up to learn new features and new skills inside these facilities to

05:39become perhaps the manager of the fleet of robots, giving that person a digital job that

05:45they never would have had access to before if all they did was the physical part of the

05:49job.

05:50So it's really trading cycles, giving the dull, repetitive, sometimes injury prone jobs

05:56that were tasks to the robot and giving the job or the career to the person who's managing

06:04the robot.

06:05So it sounds like for folks who might be afraid that a robot will take their job, your answer

06:09is no, it just might change your job.

06:12Right.

06:13And it will change out the parts of your job that you didn't love and allow you to focus

06:19on moving up in your career, learning new skills, showing more of your creative side.

06:27So hopefully we can take off the dull jobs, the dull tasks, give those to the robot and

06:33allow the human worker to bloom.

06:37I feel like robots and humanoid robots sound like sci-fi, which is where a lot of those

06:42consumer concerns come from.

06:44What do you think the other big misunderstandings are?

06:47Yeah, we've all seen those sci-fi movies.

06:50And so we have to overcome a bit of that.

06:53I think the biggest misunderstanding is that robots are going to take jobs.

06:57They're not.

06:58They're going to take tasks.

06:59They're going to take those parts of your daily job that you didn't want to do, that

07:07are not very exciting.

07:10They might be physically challenging.

07:13That's what we can have the robot do and leave the human worker to learn new skills, to actually

07:21have a career versus just a set of tasks that they're completing throughout the day.

07:27And these jobs, there's so many that are going unfilled anyway.

07:31It makes sense to put a humanoid robot into these spots.

07:35Now Agility has two lines of business that helps drive revenue.

07:38What are those business lines?

07:40So we have the physical robot itself, and we also have a layer of software that sits

07:47on top of the robot.

07:50And both of those will continue to evolve and expand.

07:54But over time, you can think of that layer of software as actually moving into almost

08:00an app store, just like we have on our phone.

08:02So you can come in and very quickly get a company up and running on some of the existing

08:07applications that sit on the software layer, per whatever need they have in their facility.

08:15Now speaking of making money, Agility is revenue generating.

08:19It's an early stage startup, but you are generating revenue.

08:21We do have revenue, yes.

08:23And you have an announcement related to this, I believe.

08:25We do.

08:26We have just stepped in to become the first humanoid to be commercially deployed.

08:33We are on the warehouse floor of a company called GXO, a third-party logistics provider

08:40just outside of Atlanta, and we are moving product for them.

08:44We are taking shift work, and the line just moves along, and Digit has stepped in and

08:52is moving product for them in those areas that I've talked about, the islands of automation.

08:57It's connecting those two areas.

08:58Interesting.

08:59And this is the first application of a humanoid in this way.

09:02The very first, yes.

09:04So we have put Digit to work.

09:07And that's quite quick.

09:08You took the helm of this company just in March.

09:11In March, right.

09:12So the company was on a good trajectory already, and we're just narrowing the focus to some

09:19initial use cases that we can concentrate on where the need is greater, but we will

09:26continue to add to those use cases over time.

09:29What else is part of your mandate as new CEO of Agility?

09:33Well, we want to make sure that we understand a customer's problem, and we bring to them

09:38the solution that can solve for that.

09:42We do have areas where people just want to innovate and see what the robot can do.

09:49We are very much focused on putting the robot to work.

09:53So we want to make sure that with Digit's current set of skills, that we put the robot

09:59to work solving a problem that has a need today, because that's very possible.

10:05It's not a futuristic thing.

10:07Digit can work today.

10:08So that's what I'm focused on, and if we don't find that when we're talking to a customer

10:14because we don't have the skill set yet, we move on, because the demand is so great just

10:19in that area.

10:21And you price the humanoids comparable to a human worker, less than a human worker.

10:27How do you structure that?

10:28Yeah.

10:29So when we come in and talk to companies, generally they're looking for an ROI of under

10:34two years, and we can meet that, compared to a human salary and the full comp package

10:42that surrounds putting a human to work for that same period of time.

10:46So after two years, then the robot becomes cheaper.

10:49Correct.

10:50Correct.

10:51So that does seem a little risky for human workers, but you still think it's the task

10:55that is being taken and people aren't going to lose their jobs over this.

10:59Right.

11:00It's a job that can't be filled to start with.

11:02And we're going to stay focused on that, because that's where the need is near term.

11:08Longer term, we are a multipurpose robot, and we can go off into other directions to

11:13augment the human workers and not to replace them.

11:16Well, you mentioned transportation, and the first time I heard you say that, I thought,

11:19like, oh, high speed rail.

11:20We'll just make it faster.

11:21Selfishly, I think that's what I want to say.

11:24I love that idea.

11:25We'll start thinking about it.

11:26There you go.

11:27Add it to your to-do list.

11:30Yes.

11:31So talking about the technology and trust, I am curious.

11:33There are so many deepfake videos on the internet today, and a lot of deepfakes can surround

11:39robotics.

11:40I could be watching a video of a robot doing something on my computer that it is not actually

11:46doing in real life.

11:47So how do you think about instilling trust in consumers and the business community when

11:50you put out videos of Digit and other agility products?

11:54We are very pragmatic in our videos, and we show what Digit can do today.

12:00And I think the real proof point is now stepping in to a customer and providing value, providing

12:06hours to that customer to put on their factory floor and do real work.

12:12That's the proof point right there.

12:14We're not about making fancy videos and showing what the robot can do in the future.

12:20We're about what the robot can do today.

12:23You sit in such an interesting seat today, but you have also had a really fascinating

12:27journey to get to where you are today.

12:30And that journey starts with being a sibling in a very large family.

12:34Can you tell me, how many siblings do you have?

12:37I have 14 brothers and sisters, so I'm one of 15.

12:41You're one of 15.

12:42I'm going somewhere with this.

12:43What does being one of 15 do for your leadership abilities?

12:48Do you think you are a CEO because you grew up in such a large family?

12:51I do.

12:52And being the second to the youngest, you know, I wasn't the youngest.

12:57I didn't get all the attention.

12:58I was just one of the middle ones, you know, the, you know, what was it, Jan Brady from

13:03the Brady Bunch.

13:04I was somewhere in the middle.

13:06So not the oldest, not the youngest, but being nearer to the bottom, the lower ages, I was

13:14a big listener and it was hard anyway to get a word in edgewise, as you might imagine,

13:19at our family dinner table.

13:22And so I became a listener.

13:24That I think has been one of the areas that I was able to leverage in my management roles

13:33over the years and then my CEO roles.

13:35Oh, that's so interesting.

13:36And I'm sure many personalities too.

13:38You learn how to juggle the family dinner table in the same way you learn how to juggle

13:43the C-suite meeting or the board meeting.

13:45Yeah, we had one of every kind.

13:47So it's definitely understanding personalities, understanding the other person's point of

13:52view.

13:54So that's always helped me in negotiations and it all started, I think, going back to

13:58that dinner table.

13:59That's amazing.

14:00And then you went to college as a business major, but you eventually changed to engineering.

14:06Why?

14:07Well, I loved math and science and I was asked about what I wanted to be in high school.

14:15And I thought, well, my older brothers and sisters went into business.

14:19I guess I'll go into business.

14:21No one ever during all of my high school years mentioned the words engineer to me ever.

14:28Never thought it was a good fit.

14:30And yet I loved all of the sciences.

14:33I loved, you know, we had a high school where we took calculus in high school.

14:39I think I took two years of calculus in high school.

14:42It was a great public school from up near Los Angeles area.

14:47But why that wasn't presented to me, I think it was because, you know, women generally

14:51didn't go into the engineering field, so it wasn't even considered an option.

14:56And so I went off to San Diego State and I was a business major and I had a job on campus

15:02because I was putting myself through college.

15:04And I walked into the engineering department one day to deliver mail and the two administrative

15:12assistants behind the desk thought I was there to learn about engineering, to ask

15:17about getting a degree in engineering.

15:20And I said, nope, just here to deliver the mail.

15:23And they said, well, do you know anything about engineering?

15:26And I said, you know, I really don't.

15:28I had no idea what an engineer did in their profession.

15:33And so they sat me down and walked me all through the different types of engineering

15:38that I could go into.

15:40And then at the end of the conversation, they pushed the papers across the table to

15:44change my major.

15:46So that night I filled it out, came in the next day, became an engineering major.

15:50Became an engineering major and then got a job in engineering in the 1980s.

15:55What was it like as a young woman in your first job?

15:58You know, there weren't very many women definitely in my first job, but oddly, I had a female

16:05manager, which I am so thankful for.

16:09And she instilled so much confidence in the women on her team.

16:15She really bolstered us in a kind of a tough environment, being oftentimes we were the

16:21only, you know, singly, we were the only women in a room of men.

16:27And she, you know, walked us through strategies to have your voice being heard.

16:33That really kept me engaged and in the field when so many of my fellow graduates were gone

16:41from the field after about the first five years.

16:43I would check back in with them and they said, well, you know, it just wasn't quite right

16:46for me.

16:47And they moved on, but she was a real, just such a role model and kept me in place through

16:55those early, more challenging years.

16:57It's a real example of you have to see it to believe it and to be it.

17:02Exactly.

17:03And as she was there and I looked up at her and I thought, I can do that.

17:07What have you taken from her or from other mentors in your career that you're bringing

17:12with you into agility and your more recent roles?

17:16You know, I think for me, the biggest takeaway, my biggest learning of my entire career was

17:23just to be myself because as I went on to my next job and did not have a female manager

17:30at my next job, I was oftentimes criticized during performance reviews for not speaking

17:36up enough, for not talking enough in meetings.

17:41And it became a detriment to my upward mobility in these companies.

17:47And I thought, well, you know, but I'm a good team builder.

17:51I fit in well in these environments.

17:55My work product was good.

17:56So this is what's holding me back.

17:59Maybe I need to leave too.

18:02And then I thought, well, no, maybe I'll try and be that person they want me to be.

18:08I tried to be louder in meetings and, you know, one day I even like, you know, hit my

18:12hand on the table and said, I want to speak.

18:15And everybody looked at me, startled and said, what's wrong with Peggy?

18:19Because I wasn't myself for sure.

18:22And then my manager said, you know what, you just be yourself.

18:28And that will carry you through.

18:31And he was right.

18:32That actually gave me the confidence to be the introvert that I was.

18:36And I did communicate, but not always in a big meeting.

18:39I would go to someone's office or I'd call them or send an email.

18:43And that was my form of communication.

18:46So although it wasn't the same as perhaps the others in the room, I was communicating.

18:50I was getting my point across.

18:52And he helped others recognize that.

18:55And I'm very grateful for that.

18:58How have you identified the opportunities in your career?

19:01You said just now that you felt like your personality was a detriment.

19:05And then you found ways to overcome that.

19:07But then how have you identified the opportunities that helped take your career to the next levels

19:11and to get to where you are now?

19:13Well, I had a manager early on.

19:15I was in engineering and I used to raise my hand when they needed an engineer to go out

19:20to customer sites and explain what our product did.

19:22I really enjoyed that.

19:24And he said, you know, you have an antenna for people.

19:28You're a good listener.

19:29I've seen you in action.

19:31You should think about doing something different, maybe going into sales.

19:35And I thought, oh, no, I can't go into sales.

19:37I'm an engineer.

19:38I'm not a salesperson.

19:40The engineers always used to make fun of the salespeople too.

19:42So that was something I was never going to do.

19:45But he kept pushing and said, you just need to get out of your comfort zone a little bit.

19:52And you have that little knot of worry in your stomach and you think, can I do this?

19:57Can I do this?

19:58And a couple of months went by and I went back to him and I said, I think I'm ready

20:01to try that.

20:03And I moved over into the sales area and I learned a new skill.

20:08And then from there, I moved over into the product area and I learned a new skill.

20:12But each time I made that transition, I felt that little knot of worry.

20:16Can I really do this?

20:17You know, the imposter syndrome.

20:20I don't think I'm able to.

20:22But I had some very, very, very supportive managers along the way who kept me moving.

20:30And it was that aggregate of experience that got me to where I am today.

20:35I generally don't like to ask women, what's it like now as a woman in robotics?

20:39But there are so few female CEOs who sit in seats like yours.

20:44So I won't ask what it's like now, but I will ask, how is the industry doing?

20:49Has it changed enough from when you were an early employee?

20:53It has changed for sure.

20:54And I celebrate that.

20:56I celebrate that because I have a daughter who's coming up and I want to ensure that

21:01the world for her is different than the world for me.

21:05So we have made progress.

21:07And that has been good because now we have more women as role models to look up to.

21:13Younger women can see that more and more.

21:15Definitely more to do, of course.

21:17But it does feel very different.

21:19It feels more inclusive.

21:20By the way, not just of women, inclusive of everybody.

21:24And actually, the management team that I inherited when I stepped in at Agility is wildly diverse.

21:32In a tech field, there's several women.

21:36There's different ethnic groups.

21:39My CMO is part of the LGBTQ community, but they were the right person for the job.

21:45And that has built the company into what it is today.

21:50We have a working robot.

21:53We have the capability of showing that we can help humans with these repetitive, dull

22:00tasks that they have to do.

22:02It was that team, it was those different voices all speaking together and rowing in the same

22:08direction that got to the company.

22:11So it's proof that having that kind of diversity of thought is very valuable for companies.

22:18So you say they were the best people for the job, these folks on your team who represent

22:23diverse communities.

22:24Yet it's also very good for business.

22:27Yet it's also something that's under fire right now in different parts of the country,

22:32in different political circles.

22:34What responsibility do you feel now in your current role to serve as an example?

22:39And did you think about this also when you were CEO of Magic Leap, which was working

22:42in augmented reality, which is another type of technology that can benefit from diversity?

22:47Well, look, as a CEO, I have a responsibility to my shareholders to build revenue and to

22:54deliver revenue.

22:56And for me, I want to make a product that serves the broadest market.

23:01How do I do that?

23:02I have to hear from more people, not just one group.

23:05I think if I had a team full of Peggy Johnsons, I would build a product that I would love,

23:13but I wouldn't be able to sell it to most of the world.

23:16That's not being responsible as a CEO.

23:19So for me, I take that very seriously.

23:22I want to understand everything that can go into a product that can open my market as

23:28wide as possible so I can deliver that revenue for my shareholders.

23:33You were saying you had a story that came to mind?

23:36Yeah.

23:37Back in the early days of Qualcomm, we actually built mobile phones.

23:41I don't know if you remember that, but there was a period of time that Qualcomm built mobile

23:45phones.

23:47And I remember we built one of the first smartphones, and it had some early data capabilities, but

23:54it was very, very big.

23:56And the engineers were so proud of it.

23:58And the first time I saw it, they handed it to me.

24:01It was huge and heavy.

24:04And I said, where do I carry this?

24:08And they said, well, you just put it in your pocket.

24:10Well, I didn't have a pocket big enough for that.

24:12And then they said, well, then you put it in your purse.

24:14And I thought, well, what use is it in my purse?

24:17It's just too big.

24:19But most of my comments were ignored, and off we went with a very big device.

24:24And we sold it to mostly men.

24:26I think it was 80% men was the market at the time.

24:31And if we had just had a few other voices saying, hey, maybe one of the priorities should

24:37be to make it a bit smaller so at least it's manageable for smaller people, which I was

24:45one.

24:46Smaller people and people who often wear clothing that don't have pockets.

24:49Doesn't have pockets, exactly.

24:51So I always think even today, maybe the mobile phone would look different if we had had more

24:56women back then.

24:59Because even today, oftentimes women put their mobile phone in their purse, though there

25:05are more and more women's clothes with pockets now.

25:08Even wedding dresses I've seen that have pockets.

25:10I think that's one thing people of all political opinions can agree on.

25:14Pockets and dresses and skirts are really good things.

25:17Are really good.

25:18I agree.

25:19OK.

25:20So we have a few questions that we ask everyone on the 50 over 50, and I want to ask them

25:23to you now.

25:25Is being over 50 an advantage or disadvantage in your current line of work?

25:30Absolutely an advantage because I have this plethora of experiences that one has built

25:36on the other that's built on the other through several companies.

25:39And I couldn't have done that in a compacted amount of time.

25:43And I had to live, by the way, through the highs and lows of different projects and different

25:48companies' cycles.

25:50All of that is cumulative to the experience I bring today in my current role.

25:56So it's absolutely an advantage, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

26:00Now before we started rolling, we were talking about running.

26:03Yes.

26:04You are a runner.

26:05You've recently completed the Tokyo Marathon.

26:08Tell me what you learned running this marathon, because I think it's a running lesson, but

26:11it's also a life lesson.

26:12Well, it's interesting.

26:14I have been working on and just completed in Tokyo the Abbott World Majors.

26:18So these are the largest marathons around the world.

26:21There's a set of six of them, and Tokyo was the last one.

26:25And I would say with the first five, I was always thinking about my time.

26:29What is my time going to be?

26:30And I have to try and go faster, and it's a burden to feel that all through the marathon.

26:38And I decided with this marathon, my last, I just wanted to enjoy it.

26:43And I wanted to look at the sights of Tokyo and take in the crowds and the noise and the

26:47splendor of it all.

26:50And that's what I did.

26:51And I remember thinking, usually in the 20s, mile 21 and above, if things aren't pleasant.

26:58And I loved it.

27:00I loved every minute of it.

27:01I was enjoying it.

27:02I crossed the line, and I thought, I could keep going.

27:05That is the first time that's ever happened.

27:07But it really taught me that I think that was the more important way to go, to enjoy

27:15it in the moment.

27:17And that's what I did in Tokyo.

27:18Well, maybe in ultras in your future, if you felt like you could keep going.

27:21Possibly.

27:22Possibly.

27:23I did.

27:24The thought crossed my mind that day.

27:25Possibly.

27:26Oh, my goodness.

27:27Well, speaking of the future, what's next for you?

27:29What's next for you as a person, and what's next for you as the CEO of Agility?

27:32Well, right now, we are heads down, working on our next generation product, expanding

27:40use cases, teaching Digit new skills.

27:44So that's my near-term focus, and I will continue to do that.

27:50Longer term, I would love to do something in the political arena.

27:54I know it's crazy.

27:56It sounds crazy right now, given the current environment, but that is a goal of mine that

28:01I've held.

28:02And someday, I think I'll head that direction.

28:05Run for office?

28:06I'd rather be appointed.

28:07I don't know.

28:08Running seems very challenging.

28:10So that's the future.

28:12So future ambassador, maybe.

28:13That would be great.

28:14Wonderful.

28:15All right.

28:16You heard it here first.

28:17You're going to have to come back and sit down with us when you get that role.

28:18Okay.

28:19I'll definitely do that.

28:20Peggy Johnson, thank you so much for being here.

28:22Thanks, Maggie.

28:23Thanks for having me.

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