Thatcher & Reagan episode 2 - A Very Special Relationship
Thatcher & Reagan episode 2 - A Very Special Relationship
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00:00Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States and Mrs. Reagan.
00:14I love the way this is so dramatically placed, the nose of the great presidential plane looking
00:20out right in those hills that you can imagine in some cowboy film.
00:25I think that gives you a very strong feel of the drama of Reagan.
00:32Well, it's a bit surprising the first thing you see is the lavatory.
00:40Though this is very sleek and impressive on the outside, it isn't a great plutocrat's palace at all, is it?
00:45It's very much a working environment.
00:46I don't feel too comfortable sitting in the presidential chair, but it's an honour.
01:01My name is Charles Moore.
01:03I was a journalist throughout the 1980s when Reagan was in power.
01:09And I wrote the biography of Margaret Thatcher, his closest ally on the world stage.
01:14Prime Minister Thatcher was the North Star for Ronald Reagan.
01:21When you look back 30 years later, as we can now, you realise, I realise anyway, how much they differed on things.
01:30She went off the deep end, absolutely ballistic.
01:35British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and US President Ronald Reagan were in power together for eight tumultuous years.
01:44They saw the beginning of the end of the Cold War as the world emerged from the shadow of nuclear Armageddon.
01:54I believe they were central to this turning point in history.
01:58So to understand it, I'm going to mine the records Thatcher and Reagan left behind.
02:05And meet witnesses who can help me get to the heart of this special relationship.
02:11I put my hand over the phone and I said, it's the President of the United States.
02:15And she picked up the phone and said, hello, Ron, in this melting voice.
02:22So I indicated I was leaving the room, not my place, and I walked out.
02:41We're in this almost sacred, ghostly atmosphere to protect these unique and actually rather beautifully bound documents.
02:51What we have here is President Reagan's original manuscript diary, which he kept pretty well every day while he was president.
03:00Absolutely remarkable achievement.
03:03This is the 29th of September, 1983, and he's recording a happy conversation with Margaret Thatcher.
03:15PM Margaret Thatcher arrived.
03:18She and I had an hour's talk before lunch, mainly about the Soviets.
03:27I don't think US-UK relations have ever been better.
03:31Thatcher and Reagan had been in power together for two and a half years.
03:36Their most striking achievement so far was the imminent arrival of hundreds more American nuclear missiles across Western Europe.
03:47We reaffirm today our resolve to maintain a strong Western defence to protect freedom and maintain peace.
03:56The Prime Minister informed me of what her government is doing to prepare for the scheduled deployment of cruise missiles.
04:05Mr. President, ladies and gentlemen, I think I can put our position like this.
04:11We both believe in defending our way of life, and we must do that to keep that way of life secure.
04:19We must not falter now. Thank you very much.
04:24The background is that both leaders are in very strong political positions.
04:29Already there's that sense that we in the West have got the upper hand,
04:34particularly on the subject of nuclear rearmament and the need to take on the Soviets.
04:39That's so central to both their ideas about what ought to happen in the Cold War.
04:46It was a very profound relationship between Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan.
04:51I think it combined both principles and emotional links.
04:56I think they were both people who were very comfortable in their own skin and didn't require constant reinforcement,
05:03but I think that was also part of the appeal, that they both were strong personalities,
05:08and they recognised that in each other and appreciated it.
05:12But the point here, I think, is that no relation between any two leaders of any two countries will always be harmonious.
05:24The leftist military is in control of Grenada this morning.
05:27The Prime Minister Maurice Bishop was shot to death last night.
05:31In October 1983, Reagan and Thatcher clashed head-on.
05:35It was also a day of indiscriminate slaughter in St George's by members of the Revolutionary Army.
05:42The Foreign Office has warned holidaymakers from Britain not to visit the Caribbean island of Grenada.
05:47A curfew is in force there, and people who go outdoors there risk being shot on sight.
05:53Grenada was a Commonwealth country, but because of the Cold War it was strategically important to the US.
05:59It was close to both America and Communist Cuba,
06:02whose military engineers were already building an airfield on Grenada.
06:09I'm going to meet an adviser who was with Reagan when the President decided to intervene.
06:15Bud McFarlane.
06:18Good morning, sir.
06:19Hello.
06:20Welcome to see you.
06:21Please come in.
06:23Good morning, sir.
06:24Welcome to see you.
06:25Please come in.
06:28About two in the morning, Vice President Bush rang from Washington
06:32and said that he had had a call from Eugenia Charles, Prime Minister of Dominica.
06:40And she was speaking on behalf of the five East Caribbean states,
06:44out of concern that the buildup of Cuban and Soviet forces
06:50was really a strategic move to take advantage of Grenada
06:55and make it a platform for the launch of aggression.
07:01The President said, well, we can't very well reject the viewpoint of five sovereign countries.
07:10Will this picture be a political plus?
07:13It shows Ronald Reagan working at five o'clock in the morning,
07:16for perhaps the first time in his presidency.
07:21Reagan ordered the US military to make plans to invade Grenada and restore democracy.
07:28Ten US warships carrying some 2,000 Marines
07:31sailed toward the Caribbean hotspot of Grenada today,
07:34and the Marxist leaders who have just taken over that island in a bloody coup
07:37are mobilising their forces for a possible invasion.
07:42Although Grenada was in the Commonwealth,
07:44Reagan initially kept Mrs Thatcher in the dark about his planned invasion.
07:49And her personal papers reveal that when he did cable her,
07:53he didn't tell her the full story.
07:56Well, what we've got here is the President telling the Prime Minister
08:00that he's received a request from the Organisation of Caribbean States
08:05to intervene in Grenada.
08:07He wants to know what Mrs Thatcher thinks about it,
08:09and he undertakes to inform you in advance
08:13should our forces take part in the proposed collective security force.
08:18Well, if you're the British Prime Minister,
08:20and you're also friendly with the US President,
08:23and he says,
08:25I will therefore undertake to inform you in advance
08:28should our forces take part,
08:31you would think he meant that.
08:37But much later in the same day comes the second cable,
08:41which says, actually, we've gone in.
08:45And without saying that he has broken his promise of the first cable, he has.
08:52He went off the deep end,
08:55absolutely ballistic.
08:59Who does he think he is,
09:01invading the Queen's territory without so much as by your leave?
09:08MUSIC
09:12She felt affronted.
09:16Was she more angry or more hurt or...?
09:20She was embarrassed.
09:22She knew it would be a demonstration
09:25that her relationship with the United States and with the President
09:29wasn't as strong as she would like it to be thought to be.
09:34But on that evening, we said to her,
09:37I think you must pick up the telephone and speak to the President about this.
09:42And she was very unwilling to do it.
09:45But the consideration we put to her was
09:48that there's going to be a big fuss about this,
09:50and you're going to have to say something in the House of Commons tomorrow,
09:54and not to have done the most obvious thing
09:56and to have rung the White House would look very negligent.
10:01So, reluctantly, she did it.
10:05The President received a call in the middle of this meeting
10:08with the Congressional leaders in the residence,
10:12and I was on the call.
10:15She made it clear,
10:17look here, Ron, this is a sovereign member of the Commonwealth.
10:22The Queen is the head of state here.
10:26And the Prime Minister was...
10:30livid is not too strong.
10:34And she started reaming the President out about Grenada.
10:38We have a special relationship.
10:41We have a personal relationship.
10:43And he didn't even tell me.
10:45And Reagan does what Reagan does,
10:47which is he bobs and weaves,
10:49and he's like, you know, just going along.
10:53Oh, yeah, and so she's getting nothing from it.
10:56I listened into this conversation,
10:59and he expected her to be angry,
11:02and certainly this was not...
11:05there wasn't a very amicable start to the conversation,
11:10such as it was.
11:12And he sounded like a naughty schoolboy.
11:15She's getting no apologies from him.
11:17She's getting no explanations from him.
11:20And so, consequently, she's getting nothing from him.
11:24And so, consequently, she's getting madder and madder and madder
11:27because she's gotten nowhere.
11:29And all of a sudden, Mike Deaver, who was a note-taker on our side,
11:34is going to break in and break protocol
11:37by saying, you know, Madam Prime Minister,
11:40remember you're talking to the President of the United States.
11:43And he's all ready to do that,
11:45and he hears from across the room, psst, psst.
11:48So he looks up, and there's Reagan behind the presidential desk
11:52holding up the phone and holding it up.
11:55He says, Mike, Mike, isn't she marvelous?
12:01And she then said, well, I don't want to talk any further about this, Ron,
12:06because we're on the telephone, and you never know who may be listening.
12:10And he said, but Margaret, this is our most highly encrypted line.
12:15And she said, never mind, I never trust the telephone.
12:18And she put the telephone down,
12:21and it was quite clear to me
12:24that she just didn't want to prolong this conversation, and nor did he.
12:35In the American-led invasion of Grenada,
12:38three United States troops, 12 Cubans and three Grenadines
12:41are now reported killed.
12:43A surprisingly light casualty list, perhaps,
12:45for what the Pentagon tonight has described
12:48as the deadliest American military operation since the Vietnam War.
12:52But will a longer-term casualty be the special relationship
12:55between America and Britain
12:57after the takeover of a Commonwealth country?
13:02The invasion of Grenada was a successful military operation
13:06which restored democracy after a period of upheaval.
13:13And Reagan sent one of his top diplomats
13:16to have lunch with Mrs Thatcher.
13:20The then-Deputy Secretary of State and me
13:25were sent to see Mrs Thatcher.
13:30And I flew to the UK
13:33and had breakfast with her at Checkers.
13:37And she was fit to be tied.
13:40And she just, you know, lowered the boom.
13:45And we couldn't...
13:47I mean, we had our talking points, of course, and all the things to say,
13:51but we didn't even try to use them.
13:54We took our beating...
13:58..and left with our tails between our legs.
14:03And I do remember one thing.
14:05She said, I can't believe that Ronnie would do this to me.
14:11Mrs Thatcher had a good understanding
14:13of how national interests are different,
14:15but it's almost like, but you're my boyfriend
14:18and now you've cheated me.
14:22What bugged her so much is that he wasn't straight with her.
14:34The big disagreement over Grenada
14:36came at an important time for Reagan.
14:40He was trying to find a way out of the nuclear arms race.
14:46This great effort had begun in early 1983
14:49when he announced the Strategic Defence Initiative, or SDI.
14:54My fellow Americans, thank you for sharing your time with me tonight.
14:58Let me share with you a vision of the future which offers hope.
15:02It is that we embark on a programme
15:04to counter the awesome Soviet missile threat
15:07with measures that are defensive
15:09to begin to achieve our ultimate goal
15:12of eliminating the threat posed by strategic nuclear missiles.
15:17At the heart of SDI
15:19was a plan to shoot down nuclear missiles with weapons based in space,
15:24hence its nickname, Star Wars.
15:30Reagan announced what became collectively known as Star Wars.
15:34Can you recall how she approached this subject?
15:37Margaret Thatcher had not been given any advance warning.
15:41So it came as a surprise.
15:44Alarm bells rang.
15:46The essence of Star Wars was that it was a protection, it was a shield.
15:53It made a missile attack ineffective.
15:58She felt, first of all, you could never be sure that would work.
16:03But also, her concern always was
16:06that there shouldn't be something that undermined deterrence.
16:15The thing about nuclear weapons is that they have prevented
16:19not only nuclear war, because they are so horrific,
16:23but they have prevented in Europe conventional war as well.
16:29And I hope people will learn that lesson.
16:33Mrs Thatcher's trust in nuclear weapons was the official orthodoxy at the time.
16:38John. How very kind. Thank you so much. Good to see you.
16:42As British diplomat John Kerr told me...
16:45Margaret believed in the doctrine of deterrence
16:48because she believed what people like me had told her,
16:53that the Soviet armed forces, conventional forces,
16:57would go through Europe like a knife through butter.
17:01And the only way of preventing them doing that
17:04was to maintain strategic nuclear forces.
17:13When you look back 30 years later, as we can now,
17:17you realize, I realize anyway, how much they differed on things.
17:22Prime Minister Thatcher thought analytically,
17:25you know, like a scientist that was her training.
17:28So she would be very analytical.
17:30Reagan wasn't analytical at all.
17:33I think Ronald Reagan pushed STI through because he was romantic.
17:39He looked at the situation and said, it's crazy.
17:43And this was a very seminal event.
17:45In March of 1981, he was shot.
17:50The bullet went, you know, a quarter, half an inch from his heart.
17:58Now, if I were shot, I'd be kind of resentful.
18:02I'd think, this is terrible. Why did this happen to me?
18:05That's not what Reagan thought.
18:09What are you going to do when you get home?
18:11Reagan thought, I'm saved.
18:14I'm saved.
18:16Now, what am I saved for?
18:18I'm saved for doing something really important.
18:21What is that really important?
18:23That's on the nuclear issue.
18:29I'm going to get out of here.
18:31I'm going to get out of here.
18:33I'm going to get out of here.
18:36I'm going to get out of here.
18:38I'm going to get out of here.
18:41Our objective is a world of lasting peace.
18:45One in which no one country could shatter the future
18:48by the insane launch of a nuclear attack on another.
18:52I'd like to think this could be the beginning of a modern crusade for peace.
18:59Do you remember her being aware of quite how big the disagreement in principle on this between Reagan and her was?
19:11That's to say, he really did think you could rid the world of nuclear weapons and that it would be a good thing to do.
19:17And she really thought you couldn't.
19:19Yes, I mean she thought you couldn't and you shouldn't get rid of nuclear weapons.
19:26She was very anxious that as a result of his idealism, he shouldn't be taken for a ride by the Russians.
19:34In June 1984, Mrs Thatcher welcomed her fellow world leaders to London for an economic summit.
19:42Mrs Thatcher and her guests at the summit have received any number of notes and messages
19:46and each leader, as he arrived and was greeted, felt obliged to stress that this was a forum for discussing problems, not for solving them.
19:56Thatcher and Reagan avoided announcements that might highlight their differences over his Star Wars idea.
20:03So the special relationship appeared as close as ever.
20:07Her overriding motive was not to cause a permanent rift which would damage her relationship with Reagan in a serious way.
20:19She sensed, I think, how much weight Reagan put on his aspirations for SDI.
20:26This was a real personal initiative of his and she wasn't going to rain on his party.
20:36I think she was very tactful with Ronald Reagan and I think she realized that this was an important relationship.
20:43It's nice to meet with the President of France and the Chancellor of Germany, but this is the one that really counts.
20:54Reagan was a very good looking and charming man.
21:00And so she took to him in that respect as well, but also she always was very conscious of how important the Americans were.
21:10As well as her natural inclination towards Reagan himself.
21:17When she talked about SDI, I think she was always very cognizant of the importance of the United States and how much she liked Ronald Reagan on a personal basis.
21:28She was soft paddling what she really felt because she didn't want to offend him.
21:33I think what they're trying to do is manage a massive disagreement between them on a big principle.
21:40And how do you work your way through that?
21:44Potentially they could have a total bust up about this and it could be a total disaster for the alliance.
21:48But neither doubts for a moment that each is trying to win the Cold War for the right side.
21:54Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Ronald Reagan.
22:02Mrs. Thatcher knew that Reagan wasn't going soft on the Soviets, quite the reverse.
22:08Let us be aware that while they preach the supremacy of the state,
22:12declare its omnipotence over individual man and predict its eventual domination of all peoples on the earth,
22:18they are the focus of evil in the modern world.
22:25We had a very good inside source in the Soviet machine.
22:31Some of the President's rhetoric about evil empire were being interpreted in a very alarmist way in the Kremlin.
22:44Mrs. Thatcher began to consider reaching out to the Soviets.
22:50She saw little value in getting to know Konstantin Chernenko.
22:54Over 70, he was the latest in a long line of aged Russian leaders.
23:00But she was persuaded to meet a younger member of the Soviet Central Committee.
23:06The man tipped to be the new President of the Soviet Union,
23:10The man tipped to be the next Soviet leader has arrived in Britain for a one-week visit.
23:18Mikhail Gorbachev said he came with goodwill and good intentions,
23:22hoping his visit would improve relations between Britain and the Soviet Union.
23:28I'm going to meet someone who was there when Gorbachev first visited Britain.
23:34Mrs. Thatcher's private secretary, Charles Pearl.
23:38Hello, Charles. Very good of you to see me.
23:40Very kind of you to see me. Thank you so much.
23:44What struck me was the confidence.
23:48Smiling, he was bouncing on the balls of his feet.
23:54It was just so different.
23:56For those like her and me who had attended endless funerals of decayed Soviet leaders,
24:02this was a completely different sort of human being.
24:08And then the party swept off to the most important meeting of the trip,
24:11lunch with Mrs. Thatcher at Chequers.
24:15I think it was very important to visit Chequers.
24:18Chequers met Gorbachev's expectations of what sort of high-level Brits had.
24:24A country house with a park.
24:27The Thatcher of a British Prime Minister.
24:32You were around at the famous Chequers meeting.
24:37Before the lunch, she told me what she was going to say to him.
24:43Welcome to the United Kingdom and to Chequers, Mr. Gorbachev.
24:48I want our relationship to get off to a good start.
24:52I want there to be no misunderstanding between us.
24:55I hate communism.
24:58She was taking no prisoners, which she never did.
25:00No holding back on either side.
25:03And they hammered away, hammer and tongs at argument.
25:11They didn't agree with each other, but they began to trust each other as people.
25:17Trust doesn't rely on agreement.
25:20Trust is when you have a certain sense,
25:22what someone is telling you or what they're offering to do
25:25or what they're saying they would do, that they mean it.
25:30The afternoon with the Thatchers and Gorbachevs was so convivial,
25:33both leaders said there should be greatly expanded East-West contacts like this.
25:38Mrs. Thatcher will raise with President Reagan when she meets him in a few days.
25:44Having experienced Gorbachev firsthand,
25:47and realized how very different he was from the previous generation of leaders,
25:51she wanted to make sure that President Reagan understood this.
25:55It was an inauspicious start to Mrs. Thatcher's visit.
25:58Thick fog at Andrews Air Force Base,
26:00a VC-10 diverting 50 miles to another airfield.
26:05A week after meeting Gorbachev,
26:07Mrs. Thatcher flew to the US for a lengthy meeting with Reagan,
26:11at which she hoped to discuss his Star Wars scheme.
26:15She'd made this big breakthrough with Gorbachev.
26:19She felt immediately that he was a man that she could do business with,
26:24and of course she wanted to go and tell Reagan about that.
26:29But her objective of this trip was to stiffen the Americans about maintaining deterrence.
26:37Finally, toward midnight last night, Mrs. Thatcher neared the British Embassy.
26:42Reagan's people have been startled by the way Britain was bowled over by the Gorbachevs,
26:46and those in the know here believe the gloomy start to her brief sojourn here
26:50mirrors the atmosphere in which she's now to see the President.
26:55Just three days before Christmas,
26:57Reagan welcomed Mrs. Thatcher to his presidential retreat, Camp David.
27:02The President was always pleased to see her. He loved Camp David.
27:05She was usually pretty relaxed when they met up there.
27:09But there's a sort of frozen smile as he drove the golf cart around her.
27:13She was clearly terrified she was going to be ejected by a sudden swerve or something like that.
27:20That's all.
27:26So Prime Minister Thatcher comes to Camp David.
27:30She tells him, I met the guy.
27:33He doesn't drool. He's not on a defibrillator.
27:40She didn't go over the top in describing Gorbachev, but she certainly gave a clear impression.
27:47But a lot of the time was spent actually talking about his SDI and the impact of that.
27:54Do you remember her mood and presence?
27:57She basically took charge and wanted to make sure on the issue of the Strategic Defense Initiative
28:06that the United States was not going to fundamentally alter its strategy of extended deterrence.
28:17She didn't pull any punches.
28:20She said, now look here, Ron.
28:23First of all, this is going to cost a lot of money for you.
28:28Secondly, technologically, it's not going to work.
28:32It may someday 20, 30 years from now, but let's be serious here.
28:36We're needing a deterrent that is up and running right now.
28:40Thirdly, it's going to look to the Russians that you're developing a first strike capability.
28:48I mean, after all, if you defend America and you're safe,
28:52why wouldn't they expect you to just take advantage and launch the first attack?
28:58What I remember about that weekend, I think, was that Reagan didn't do much talking at all.
29:09Indeed, I wondered whether he was there sometime.
29:13But what sticks in my mind was the president's expression.
29:18The expression was, as of Cary Grant, admiring Joan Crawford in action.
29:25Gee, isn't she a star?
29:27He was a performer and admired a really good performer.
29:32Even when she was being quite insulting sometimes,
29:36I mean, she was capable of being, he would think, Betty Davis, Joan Crawford, wow.
29:43Reagan eventually endorsed a statement, which Mrs Thatcher suggested.
29:48His Star Wars idea wouldn't move from research to deployment without further discussions.
29:54For now, the US was not putting weapons in space
29:57and would remain committed to the West's nuclear deterrent.
30:01The US would be the only country in the world to have a nuclear weapon.
30:05For now, the US was not putting weapons in space
30:08and would remain committed to the West's nuclear deterrent.
30:12I think it was beneficial that he was a big man, big-minded and generous,
30:18otherwise he might not have put up with it.
30:22And eventually he bought a statement, said, I'll buy that.
30:28I remember that very well because she gave it to Reagan across the table
30:35and Reagan read through it and said, looks all right to me.
30:43I think given this relationship she had with the president,
30:47he just wasn't going to object.
30:49At a news conference afterwards, Mrs Thatcher set out the principles of their joint position.
30:54I was not surprised to discover that we see matters in very much the same light.
31:00And Mrs Thatcher's emphasis was all on the research
31:02and not the deployment of Star Wars weapons.
31:05There were, in fact, no differences.
31:07I have been concerned about reports to the effect that there were.
31:11Those reports were not based on the facts.
31:14I have been concerned about reports to the effect that there were.
31:17Those reports were not correct.
31:23I think, as I recall, the atmosphere on the way back was that a rescue had been achieved.
31:30There's a delightful picture of you and Mrs Thatcher
31:32wearing sort of Christmas cracker hats on the plane flying back.
31:36Absolutely. One of the few lighter moments.
31:40Which shows she was very happy with this extraordinary week.
31:43Yeah.
31:47Well, I think President Reagan was a very exceptional politician
31:50in not sort of taking offence and not pulling rank.
31:54He was prepared to let the less important person, Mrs Thatcher, make a lot of the running.
32:00And also I think there was a genuine respect, even tinged with fear that he sometimes felt,
32:05which is that she could explain things and she had a sort of sharpness.
32:10And often his aides would be thinking, she's going a bit far,
32:13she's been pretty cheeky or whatever.
32:16He, as it were, got the point of her and let her let rip.
32:31By 1985, the special relationship was as close as ever.
32:36But a third player was about to join Thatcher and Reagan on the world stage.
32:41In the Soviet Union, a new era has begun under Mikhail Gorbachev.
32:46Within hours of the state funeral of former President Konstantin Chernenko,
32:50Mr Gorbachev was meeting many of the most influential statesmen in the world.
32:55Mrs Thatcher was greeted warmly.
32:57She had private talks with the new leader, lasting nearly an hour.
33:01They spoke in considerable detail.
33:03Do you see this as the start, possibly, of a new era in discussions with the Soviet Union?
33:08I think it augurs well for reaching agreement between East and West and for increasing cooperation.
33:16Do you still like him?
33:17Of course. I respect him. He's very able.
33:21And on that basis, yes, we can do business.
33:31Seeing Gorbachev convinced her that she was on the right course,
33:34and she thought the moment had come to start feeling out this opportunity
33:40as to whether it was possible to reach agreements in a way that had just seemed impossible beforehand.
33:48When Gorbachev actually ascended and took office, the president said,
33:56Prime Minister Thatcher is keen for us to get going with this.
34:02And he said, I want to get to the table with this guy.
34:06And committed us to a November summit in Geneva.
34:17Good evening from Geneva, where the leaders of the two superpowers will meet for the first time in the 1980s.
34:26The two superpower chiefs are arm-wrestling on arms control and worldwide public opinion.
34:37Reagan spent the first morning with Gorbachev.
34:40He came out, and then the first thing he said was, Gorbachev is a different kind of Soviet leader.
34:46Mr. Reagan, how's the meeting going?
34:49Fine.
34:50Are you getting along?
34:52You can see that, can't you?
34:54I was thinking to myself, well, you haven't met any other kind of Soviet leader,
34:59so how do you know how different that was?
35:01But I didn't say that, OK?
35:04But I think he just got that from Prime Minister Thatcher.
35:12But Mrs. Thatcher was losing influence.
35:17Because once Reagan and Gorbachev got together,
35:20there was less need for the Prime Minister of Britain, which was not a superpower.
35:26In September of 1986, Gorbachev writes a six-page letter to President Reagan and says,
35:33let's meet and do it between our two capitals.
35:37The two places that were halfway between were London and Reykjavik.
35:42American television viewers are being given their first glimpses of Iceland.
35:46It's being presented to them as somewhere near the end of the Earth.
35:50Ronald Reagan chose Reykjavik. Why?
35:52Because in London, he would have to meet with Thatcher.
35:56He just wanted to have this meeting with Gorbachev and do nothing else.
36:05Mrs. Thatcher was nervous about any nuclear disarmament.
36:09And Reagan assured her his weekend in Reykjavik was unlikely to produce a formal agreement.
36:17Mr. President, what is the first topic you'd like to discuss?
36:22The weather.
36:23You've said nothing!
36:27The Reykjavik summit was a very difficult moment for Margaret Thatcher.
36:32She didn't know what was going to happen there.
36:36President Reagan kept things pretty close to his chest.
36:40And news of it only sort of trickled out during the meeting.
36:48News of this morning, insofar as anyone can make it out,
36:51a criminal official, unidentified, but a criminal official said a short while ago,
36:56according to the Associated Press, that the two sides were close to agreement
37:00on deep cuts in long-range nuclear weapons
37:05and elimination of medium-range missiles in Europe.
37:11We didn't know in advance, and we couldn't have.
37:15The American administration didn't know what was going to happen.
37:23Is this the sort of thing that always terrifies officials,
37:26that the principals will just get on with it in some way that's absolutely unthinkable?
37:32Unthinkable.
37:37Ronald Reagan at Reykjavik, much to our surprise, much to my personal shock,
37:43was just anti-nuclear.
37:45Talking about wouldn't it be nice to not have any nuclear weapons.
37:49Did Reagan know perfectly well that they were just sort of developing ideas,
37:52him and Gorbachev, or do you think he was running away with himself
37:58and really doing something which scared not only Mrs. Thatcher
38:01but actually quite a lot of people in the administration?
38:03Yeah.
38:06Was he serious about giving up nuclear weapons?
38:08He was very serious. He really wanted it to happen.
38:13I got an agitated call from the number 10 switchboard
38:16saying I was to ring the Prime Minister immediately.
38:19And so I did, and she said,
38:22saying, have you heard what he's doing? Where are you?
38:26And I said, well, I'm in the country.
38:28Well, you'll come here.
38:30And anyway, she was in a great state
38:32because it appeared that he was going to even possibly reach an agreement
38:38to get within 10 years the abolition of all nuclear weapons.
38:44The phrase that sticks in my mind was the ground moved under my feet.
38:49The doctrine of nuclear forces being primarily deterrent
38:56was dead if Reykjavik survived.
39:02Have you made any real progress, sir?
39:09Are you going to meet again, sir?
39:11This afternoon?
39:13It was just so astounding that the Americans got that close
39:17to that sweeping agreement that would have overturned the nuclear architecture
39:22without consulting with the British.
39:27She knew all this was in the back of his mind.
39:29She just hadn't thought that it would all come pouring out
39:32into a head-to-head negotiation with the General Secretary
39:36of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.
39:38Are you making headway at least?
39:42Why didn't we inform Mrs. Thatcher?
39:45Honestly, I think it never really occurred to him
39:48because he thought so highly of her
39:50and understood her as such a deeply moral person
39:53that when it really came to it, she didn't agree with him.
39:56Of course she must agree with him.
40:00The sun went down but not the expectations.
40:02As the meeting dragged on, two, three, then four hours,
40:05it became known that this wasn't one meeting but a whole series.
40:08Officials walked back and forth in twilight bringing in papers
40:11and at one point a typewriter.
40:14Mr President! Do you have an agreement, Mr President?
40:18Do we have an agreement, sir?
40:21Will you meet again?
40:23Have you agreed on anything?
40:26In the end, Reagan and Gorbachev did not agree
40:29to eliminate any nuclear weapons.
40:33The Iceland summit collapses without agreement,
40:36the stumbling block, Star Wars.
40:38An hour ago, President Reagan and Mr Gorbachev
40:41ended what had been the longest session they've ever had together,
40:45both men serious and unsmiling.
40:49SDI scuppered the deal
40:51because Gorbachev wanted it confined to the lab.
40:54Reagan wouldn't accept that constraint.
40:59So in your view, was Reykjavik nearly the most terrible mistake
41:04or was President Reagan actually doing something rather interesting,
41:08which is floating a great big idea without giving away the shop
41:12because of his holding the line on SDI?
41:14Well, I think you just put it the right way.
41:17He didn't have to walk the cat back because the cat hadn't walked.
41:21But on the other hand, he was demonstrating to Gorbachev
41:25that there was a way to work things out.
41:29But if Reagan continued to seek the abolition of all nuclear weapons,
41:33this would put the special relationship under enormous strain.
41:38As I recall, she said,
41:40''Hasn't the man gone mad?''
41:44Another weekend was on the cards, crossing the Atlantic,
41:48as the Foreign Office say, to wash his head.
41:55The President and the Prime Minister
41:57meeting at Camp David outside Washington
41:59for the first time since Mr Reagan's summit in Iceland with Mr Gorbachev.
42:04As before, the purpose was to coordinate some arms control policies
42:07that seemed to be drifting apart.
42:09And as before, Mr Reagan came out to greet her alone,
42:12a little uncertain at the wheel of the presidential golf cart.
42:19She was deeply worried about Reykjavik
42:21and she had this opportunity to put that right.
42:25And she had to work out the most practical way
42:31of expressing that.
42:35What we have here is a whole load of speaking notes.
42:38This is a sort of rhetorical one I found just now going through.
42:43Here's a quote from Churchill that's been stuck in
42:45that she's ready to throw at him.
42:47''Be careful above all things not to let go of the atomic weapon
42:50''until you are sure, and more than sure,
42:52''that other means of preserving peace are in your hands.''
42:55She thought it was sort of an unbelievable risk,
42:58Reagan was ready to take, so it really did frighten her.
43:01You can almost hear her voice, I think, sometimes,
43:04''Ronnie, you can't think...''
43:11Reagan had a one-on-one meeting in his cabin with Margaret Thatcher.
43:16At night you can see the lights down in the valley and all.
43:19Yes, but you want to, but you need to get away, don't you?
43:23Oh, yes.
43:24From the White House.
43:27And Thatcher just went on and on and on
43:31and totally controlled the whole dialogue
43:34for at least 45 minutes, if not close to an hour.
43:38And Reagan listened, and listened intensely, but he didn't respond.
43:44There was no pushback, none at all.
43:48I think it was slightly startling.
43:50Some members of the American administration
43:53Then we took a break, and I was alone with Reagan,
43:56and I said, ''What's going on?''
43:59I said, ''You haven't said a word. Is everything OK?''
44:03And he said, ''No, Jim, don't worry.''
44:08And he said, ''You know, Maggie and I are close friends,
44:11''and we've been friends for a long time, and that's... I'll be fine.''
44:16Mrs Thatcher left Camp David, reassured by Reagan
44:19there'd be no repeat of Reykjavik.
44:22He told her he remained determined to reduce nukes,
44:25but he'd stick to limited goals,
44:27and that would leave the West deterrent in place.
44:35After Reykjavik, the idea that, you know,
44:39we're going to have a nuclear war,
44:43After Reykjavik, the idea that
44:46Prime Minister Thatcher needs to be heard,
44:50needs to be understood,
44:53needs to be mollified in some way,
44:56I think that is absolutely true.
44:58To me, what Ronald Reagan was thinking
45:02was the world needs to get rid of nuclear weapons.
45:06That's more important than this flitting prime minister.
45:13He had in his mind, number one,
45:17I, in my limited time in government,
45:20can make an impact of the world
45:23like no president ever has,
45:26and that is to do away with nuclear weapons.
45:29So are you saying that Mrs Thatcher needed to be bothered?
45:32It made her feel better, it made her, you know,
45:35probably help the relationship because she felt she got a hearing.
45:40I think that Reagan handled it very well.
45:48I absolutely don't think that Mrs Thatcher thought
45:51before Reykjavik, Reagan's great,
45:54and after Reykjavik, Reagan's awful.
45:56It wasn't like that at all.
45:58You know, it comes up sometimes in a relationship
46:00that you effectively, you've fallen apart so much
46:03that your conversations become,
46:06only make things worse.
46:08It wasn't at all like that.
46:10It was more, for goodness sake, let's have the conversation,
46:13and then I'm sure we'll get somewhere.
46:16And indeed, that's exactly what happened.
46:25British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher,
46:27one of the Soviet Union's strongest critics,
46:29is in Moscow tonight where she's expected to give
46:31Soviet leader Gorbachev's new spirit of openness a test.
46:36Margaret Thatcher's visit to Russia in 1987...
46:43..was inspired by several different things.
46:46One was that she was not averse to the opportunities
46:49which television would offer of her going into the lion's den.
46:55Secondly, it was indeed to take a further step forward,
46:58her relationship with Mr Gorbachev,
47:00so that she could play that card with greater vigour
47:04in her relationship with the United States
47:06and in talking to the president.
47:10Leader Gorbachev, who invited Mrs Thatcher,
47:12will try to persuade the British that Moscow is now less threatening.
47:17Gorbachev claimed to be opening up the Soviet Union.
47:20Mrs Thatcher wanted to see for herself if this was really happening.
47:26It was not her instinct to look for compromise,
47:29to look for solutions with Soviet leaders,
47:33and yet she was wise enough to understand that in Gorbachev,
47:37not just the Soviet Union, but the world as a whole had an opportunity.
47:43That he took the trouble to allocate a whole day to discussions
47:47and we went on and there wasn't time to come back to change
47:50for the evening's dinner, so we've just gone straight on to dinner.
47:53It has really been a most interesting and valuable day.
47:58Margaret Thatcher's relationship with Gorbachev
48:01was not without controversy,
48:03and what I would call the traditionalists
48:06believed that she was going too far.
48:08She was taking too much on trust from Gorbachev,
48:11that he would never actually be able to do any of the things he promised.
48:16She had to judge how far it was prudent to go.
48:19I wish you happiness.
48:21I wish you health and happiness.
48:24After her trip to Moscow, Mrs Thatcher was convinced
48:27Gorbachev's reform was real.
48:29And if encouraged, it would unleash forces that could undermine communism.
48:36We're looking further into the future
48:38and we've seen new possibilities developing
48:41and we're going to try to bring them about.
48:47A few months after Mrs Thatcher's trip to Moscow,
48:50Reagan and Gorbachev signed the Intermediate Nuclear Force Treaty.
48:56Good evening from Washington.
48:58The first nuclear arms reduction treaty in history has been signed.
49:02Mr Reagan calls it a giant step.
49:04Mr Gorbachev says that together they're now undoing the logic of the arms race.
49:15Reagan and Gorbachev signed the agreement on December 8th of 1987.
49:21Great ceremony in the White House.
49:24It was one of the great days of my life anyway.
49:29One of Britain's most controversial nuclear weapons bases,
49:33Greenham Common, would be returned to Heathland.
49:39The missiles that had been here were among the 2,692 nukes
49:44scrapped as a result of this first-ever nuclear arms reduction treaty.
49:53But it still wasn't the end of the Cold War,
49:56particularly in the minds of President Reagan or Margaret Thatcher.
50:00I don't think either of them were yet sufficiently convinced
50:03that they'd reached that point.
50:09Mrs Thatcher is in Washington for a one-day visit to President Reagan.
50:20For the Cold War to end, West and East would have to stop being enemies.
50:26But that's the thing, that's what Gorbachev said to us,
50:29and I think there's a bit of friendship going on, but that is politics.
50:34The final step of him going to Moscow,
50:36which was a very, very big step indeed for the Americans,
50:39which was widely opposed within the administration at the time,
50:42again, she encouraged him absolutely all out to do it.
50:50President Reagan set his foot on Soviet soil
50:53for the first time in his life three hours ago.
50:58An astonishing sight.
51:00President Reagan greeted by Soviet General Secretary Gorbachev
51:03inside the Kremlin.
51:05The Moscow summit began.
51:09Here's a guy who was a child brought up,
51:12a Cold Warrior all his life.
51:15For his part, Gorbachev was punching up the idea
51:18that he had gotten Cold Warrior Ronald Reagan
51:21to reverse course in policies and come to the heart
51:24of what Mr Reagan used to call the evil empire.
51:28Do you still think you're in an evil empire, Mr President?
51:31No.
51:33On the other hand, the Soviet system then was in the process of imploding.
51:42I mean, nobody realised how quickly it would happen,
51:46you know, the collapse of the Soviet empire.
51:49Nobody forecast this, nobody saw that happening as fast as it did.
51:54But Reagan was convinced with Gorbachev there was a fundamental change
51:59because Gorbachev had ceased to be hostile to us.
52:03We want friendship between our two peoples.
52:08Just three years after Reagan's visit to Moscow,
52:11the Soviet Union would collapse and the Cold War would be over.
52:17But before things get too far out of hand...
52:24I would find ourselves standing like this.
52:30The world as a whole was incredibly fortunate
52:33that Gorbachev was in power at that time
52:36and that the United States had a president
52:39that was able and willing
52:44to see the opportunities that now existed
52:47and Margaret Thatcher, in a sense, was the glue that made that possible.
52:58But Thatcher and Reagan's time in power together
53:01did not last to see the end of the Cold War.
53:04By 1988, his time as president was nearly over.
53:09Good evening.
53:10The special relationship between Britain and America
53:13comes to the end of a special chapter in Washington today
53:16as President Reagan welcomes Mrs. Thatcher to the White House for the last time.
53:23They started thinking about how they would kind of tie it up in a bow,
53:27was the term that was used.
53:29How would the presidency end?
53:31We had a long list of ideas,
53:33but the one thing that there was universal agreement on
53:36in the administration should be Margaret Thatcher.
53:41Mrs. Thatcher's visit in 1988 was a royal visit in all but name.
53:50This was the apotheosis of the Reagan presidency
53:54and the final sort of feast of the gods.
54:01Because Ronald Reagan, the screen actor,
54:04had gone into politics to fight the communists.
54:08Alongside him, the Iron Lady,
54:11with whom he'd formed this close political kinship.
54:17Prime Minister Thatcher,
54:19today the American people express to you
54:22our thanks, our affection and our determination
54:25to stand with you until freedom has triumphed.
54:30So we had this elegiac sense of one chapter closing,
54:36the sort of music, if it had been a film,
54:40the bars would start to come up,
54:43and a new chapter opening.
54:47As usual, she had a ghastly cold and sore throat.
54:51She always seemed to develop on these grand occasions,
54:54but she got through it.
54:56Didn't improve her temper, but she got through it.
54:58Mr. President, the office which you hold
55:02is the greatest in the world.
55:05But it is the man who holds that office,
55:09you, sir, who has enabled us
55:12to begin the world over again.
55:15We salute and thank you for it.
55:19There was a very emotional atmosphere to the whole thing.
55:24Now, would some people perhaps say
55:26it was a little bit over the top?
55:28I'm sure they would.
55:36Mr. President, any thoughts about your last meeting
55:39with Prime Minister Thatcher as President?
55:42Well, yes.
55:44Sad thoughts that this will be the last time
55:49that we shall meet in this capacity.
55:53My thoughts are sad.
55:55Sad that I'll not sit in this position
55:58with him sitting in that chair again.
56:00It really is not too much to say
56:02that those two people changed the world.
56:04They changed the world.
56:08And I also believe it is not too much to say
56:12that neither could have done it without the other.
56:15We knew one another before the President was the President
56:19and before I was the Prime Minister.
56:21And we talked then about what we wanted to achieve
56:24and how we were going to do it.
56:26Each would have been too alone,
56:29too isolated,
56:31too easy to attack,
56:33too likely, honestly, to give in
56:35to a certain amount of self-doubt.
56:37They were human beings after all.
56:40But look what they accomplished.
56:42It's a very different world now,
56:44and a very much better one,
56:46and a very much more hopeful one.
56:48The things she says about the state of the world,
56:51she has played a major role
56:53in bringing those things about.
57:19I think the relationship did help bring about
57:23an end to the Cold War.
57:25I think it was partly to do with timing
57:28and partly to do with the coincidence of these two,
57:31in many ways, like-minded people.
57:33It really was a common purpose.
57:35There were differences,
57:37but there was a common purpose.
57:39And I think it was partly to do with timing
57:42and partly to do with the coincidence of these two,
57:45in many ways, like-minded people.
57:47There were differences, but there was the same mission.
57:51I think that Reagan and Thatcher
57:55were more than the sum of their parts.
57:58And over several years,
58:02you have, from freezing cold
58:05to fairly warm,
58:08and the world's different as a result.
58:47© transcript Emily Beynon