11th Hour | Waseem Badami | ARY News | 28th August 2024
#traders #strike #pmlngovt #fbr #pmshehbazsharif #ShabbarZaidi #taxes #protest
۔Nationwide trader strike against electricity bills and taxes today - Waseem Badami's Report
۔Shabbar Zaidi Traders Ki Strike Say Khush Kyun??? - Shabbar Told Everything
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۔Nationwide trader strike against electricity bills and taxes today - Waseem Badami's Report
۔Shabbar Zaidi Traders Ki Strike Say Khush Kyun??? - Shabbar Told Everything
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
Official Facebook: https://www.fb.com/arynewsasia
Official Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/arynewsofficial
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Website: https://arynews.tv
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NewsTranscript
00:00In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.
00:06I am not speaking from the point of view of an economist, an economist, a chartered accountant.
00:15I am speaking from the point of view of a common man.
00:17There is a big problem in Pakistan.
00:18There is a very big problem.
00:18I don't understand what the solution is.
00:20The government wants to run the country.
00:22The government wants money to run the country.
00:24The government wants to take money from the people.
00:26For that, the government will have to impose a tax.
00:29In every budget transition, what we have been doing since childhood,
00:31is that the government does not do the steps that should be taxed.
00:35This comes up.
00:37It does not do the steps for which you will have to do a little bit of reform.
00:44Or it does not do the steps for which you will have to bring those classes into the tax head,
00:48who are very strong.
00:49For that, you will have to do strong steps.
00:51It does not do that.
00:53It does the steps that are just a pen and paper.
00:55For example, if you want to increase the tax on the salary class,
00:57you do not have to do anything.
00:59You have to say, not 15, but 25.
01:01Not 25, but 30.
01:03Not 30, but 35.
01:05Now, when the government,
01:07we always talk with a special reference.
01:09One thing always comes up,
01:11there are so many shops in the country.
01:13There are so many shops on every road.
01:15There are so many shops in every market.
01:17There are retailers who do not pay taxes.
01:19And when they do not pay taxes, the government needs money.
01:21So what does the government do?
01:23It collects from other places.
01:25Whenever there is something
01:27in which we hear that they are making an effort to tax them,
01:29then the retailers stand up.
01:31They put their voice forward.
01:33What are you doing to us?
01:35You have made electricity the most expensive in the region.
01:37That electricity does not come.
01:39There are different issues of infrastructure.
01:41There are different issues of export.
01:43On top of that, you have increased the tax so much.
01:45So what will we do?
01:47Today, there has been a successful retail strike in Pakistan.
01:49In Pakistan's tool wars,
01:51almost all the central markets
01:53have been closed.
01:55This has happened for the first time in recent history.
01:57The people of Karachi
01:59remembered the MQ Mall strike when
02:01there were shops like that.
02:03So what is the problem?
02:05The retailers are angry with the government.
02:07What do the retailers say?
02:09What does the government say?
02:11Let's put this in front of you first
02:13and then we will discuss it.
02:15Let's try to find answers to these questions.
02:17What do the retailers say now?
02:19If the government is serious about talking to the retailers,
02:21then first of all,
02:23we will have to take back the notification
02:25of the Taajir Dost scheme.
02:27What is the name of this Taajir Dost scheme?
02:29This is the name of Taajir Dost.
02:31Why are the retailers opposing it?
02:33We will discuss this in the program.
02:35We will ask Taajir Rehnaumah
02:37what is the problem with the Taajir Dost scheme.
02:39We will ask the coordinator of the Taajir Dost scheme
02:41to explain it in simple words.
02:43What is this Taajir Dost scheme?
02:45We will ask the tax expert Shabbar Jadhi
02:47whether the government is right or the retailers are right.
02:49Let's move ahead.
02:51What else do the retailers say?
02:53They say that to save the country from financial crisis
02:55and to save it from IMF,
02:57big companies should be brought to the tax stand.
02:59Stop imposing taxes on the people.
03:01The retailers will never
03:03pay taxes on their own accord.
03:05If the government does not take back
03:07the notification about tax and tariffs,
03:09then the strike can be extended
03:11for an indefinite period.
03:13The retailers get the most expensive electricity,
03:15while the government officials and bureaucrats
03:17are not happy with this.
03:19The people cannot bear the burden of taxes anymore.
03:21The retailers should be able to
03:23bear the burden.
03:25What does the government say?
03:27The government says that the FBR
03:29which is the Federal Board of Revenue
03:31which is the largest authority
03:33for tax collection
03:35should collect revenue from the people
03:37on behalf of the government
03:39so that the government can
03:41take care of the government.
03:43Its chairman Rashid Mahmood says
03:45that the FBR is ready to solve
03:47the legal issues.
03:49It is also ready to change the laws.
03:53But the FBR will not take back
03:55the Taj-e-Dos scheme.
03:57Its purpose is to bring the retail sector
03:59to the tax net.
04:01You know that the tax will be collected
04:03more or less when a group
04:05is in the tax net.
04:07If a group or an individual
04:09or a company
04:11is not in the tax net
04:13then it is over.
04:15Then they are operating
04:17outside the economy.
04:19If that group or that shopkeeper
04:21does not exist in the government's paper
04:23then everything is happening outside.
04:25So the government says that
04:27the FBR will not take back the Taj-e-Dos scheme
04:29because its purpose is to bring the retail sector
04:31to the tax net.
04:33The retail sector contributes 20%
04:35of the GDP of the country
04:37but is free of taxes.
04:39So now the government has no choice
04:41but to take back the Taj-e-Dos scheme.
04:43This is my opinion.
04:45The government says this
04:47and the retail sector says this.
04:49Let's go and talk to all the representatives
04:51including the government representatives
04:53so that we can ask them what the government is doing.
04:55The opposition, i.e. the PTI representatives
04:57are also involved.
04:59Will the PTI be involved with the retailers?
05:01Is this politics?
05:03Another point to score.
05:05What do you think?
05:07If the PTI government was involved
05:09should it not bring the Taj-e-Dos scheme to the tax net?
05:11The Taj-e-Rehnawa are also involved
05:13so that we can ask them
05:15what they think about this.
05:17And the tax expert,
05:19the economic expert, Mr. Shabbar Zaidi
05:21is also with us.
05:23We have introduced Mr. Shabbar Zaidi.
05:25We also have Mr. Afnanullah Khan
05:27from the Government side,
05:29Member National Assembly,
05:31Pakistan Muslim League Noon,
05:33Mr. Shabbar Zaidi,
05:35and Senator Humayun Momin
05:37who will join us soon.
05:39I want to start with them
05:41so that I can ask them
05:43what the issue is
05:45and what the problem is
05:47so that we can move forward with the debate.
05:49Mr. Shabbar Zaidi,
05:51we have just heard about the Taj-e-Rehnawa
05:53but we know a lot about it.
05:55So, if I start with you
05:57with a basic question,
05:59in this specific point,
06:01is the government
06:03playing a role or the retailers?
06:07In the name of God,
06:09Mr. Badami,
06:11the position we are in today
06:13is that
06:15the government
06:17is playing a role.
06:19But this is
06:21absolutely true
06:23that this time,
06:25there has been a fraud with the retailers
06:27in the sense that
06:29the retailer scheme
06:31that was introduced,
06:33the retailers thought
06:35that it is a fixed tax
06:37and they have been given
06:39a limited liability.
06:41But as I said earlier,
06:43this is not a fixed tax scheme.
06:45This is only
06:47advance tax liability
06:49and the income will be determined
06:51based on that.
06:53So, when they introduced
06:55this new tax scheme,
06:57at that time, the retailers
06:59should have understood
07:01that what they are understanding
07:03is not a fixed tax.
07:05Now, when the return date
07:07is approaching,
07:09they have understood
07:11that this is not the case
07:13and that is why
07:15they have come to the streets.
07:17So, this is the basic issue.
07:19The second thing,
07:21Mr. Badami,
07:23you keep saying that
07:25the retailers,
07:27tell me,
07:29if I make an agreement
07:31with them
07:33or do something with them,
07:35can they enforce that?
07:37For argument's sake,
07:39Mr. Ajmal Chaudhary comes,
07:41Mr. Kashif Chaudhary comes,
07:43Mr. Naeem Bir comes,
07:45there are other people,
07:47very reasonable people,
07:49they have made a big deal with me.
07:51If I agree with Naeem Bir
07:53that every retailer will give
07:55Rs. 10 for argument's sake,
07:57only Rs. 10,
07:59then will Mr. Naeem Bir
08:01be able to bring all the
08:03retailers of Pakistan in this?
08:05Sir, if there is a representative
08:07body of the retailers
08:09and they are coming for argument's sake,
08:11then they will be responsible
08:13if something is agreed upon.
08:15There is no representative body.
08:17There is no representative body.
08:19No, my question is,
08:21Mr. Maseeb, it is a question again,
08:23that these retailers
08:25that you see,
08:27these are the representatives of the retailers,
08:29but my question is,
08:31when I agree with them on something,
08:33can they enforce it?
08:35Then at least,
08:37Mr. Shabbar,
08:39we will not be able to morally
08:41oppose it in our programs.
08:43No, I will make it easy for you.
08:45Right now,
08:47Mr. Naeem is the chief coordinator
08:49of the Taj-e-Dos scheme.
08:51Yes.
08:53He is the chief coordinator of the Taj-e-Dos scheme.
08:55If I agree with Mr. Naeem,
08:57if I agree with Mr. Naeem,
08:59that everyone's liability
09:01will be Rs. 5000,
09:03for argument's sake,
09:05will Mr. Naeem be able
09:07to get me Rs. 5000
09:09from all the retailers in Pakistan?
09:11Yes, Mr. Naeem is standing on the other side.
09:13That is fine.
09:15I will take this matter forward.
09:17I understood your point.
09:19And now let's go into detail.
09:21Mr. Javed Qureshi is the president
09:23of All Pakistan Anjuman-e-Tajaran, Sindh.
09:25Mr. Javed, Assalam-o-Alaikum.
09:29Mr. Javed, can you hear me?
09:31Yes, sir, I can hear you.
09:33Can you hear me?
09:35Yes, sir, I can hear you.
09:37Okay, sir, let's go.
09:39I wanted to talk about something else,
09:41but Mr. Shabbar has raised a point.
09:43First of all, please answer this.
09:45You can say this on national television
09:47when millions of people are watching you.
09:49Your organization, All Pakistan Anjuman-e-Tajaran
09:51is a representative body in Pakistan.
09:53And if any government agrees to this,
09:55then it will be your responsibility
09:57to enforce it.
09:59Inshallah.
10:01Absolutely.
10:03But Mr. Naeem Mir, he is also a trader.
10:05He is also the head of an Anjuman.
10:07But he is not with you.
10:09I will not pass any comments for him.
10:11He is not a trader representative.
10:13He is working for a political party.
10:17The people of those political parties
10:19who have participated in today's protest,
10:21will they tell you that you are working for a political party?
10:23No, no, no, Mr. Badami, let me tell you.
10:25We have given Kaal.
10:27They have supported our Kaal.
10:29Kaal is from the side of the traders.
10:31And what Mr. Shabbar is saying,
10:33his logic does not make sense.
10:35Today, we have proved that
10:37by shutting down all of Pakistan,
10:39all the traders
10:41were on the same platform.
10:43That is why the whole of Pakistan was shut down.
10:45This is the best message
10:47that has been sent to Pakistan.
10:49What Mr. Shabbar is saying,
10:51he does not like it.
10:53It was the same when Mr. Shabbar,
10:55when he was the chairman of FVR,
10:57he left it in the middle.
10:59There was so much pressure on him
11:01that he could not tolerate it.
11:03Today, the way he talks to the traders,
11:05I have a disagreement with him,
11:07with Mr. Shabbar.
11:09Okay, fine.
11:11But he is just raising a point
11:13that the government,
11:15today's strike is a sign
11:17that we are a representative organization.
11:19Because today, by and large,
11:21business in Pakistan has been shut down.
11:23You are saying this. I noted.
11:25Mr. Naeem Mir is also with us.
11:27Mr. Waseem?
11:29Yes, sir.
11:31Mr. Waseem,
11:33let me tell you something.
11:35I am absolutely right.
11:37The gentleman who is sitting with you
11:39is absolutely right.
11:41They are all together in the strike.
11:43When I will come to enforce,
11:45they are not together.
11:47I am not saying this in their evilness.
11:49I am saying this in their goodness.
11:51And you are saying this
11:53based on your personal opinion.
11:55No, I have been dealing with this
11:57for 40 years.
11:59And I have only been the chairman
12:01of FVR for 6 months.
12:03But I have been in the tax business
12:05for 40 years.
12:07And I have been looking at this.
12:09And this time, the gentleman
12:11who is sitting with you
12:13has been greatly deceived.
12:15He did not understand
12:17that there is no tax scheme.
12:19There is no scheme.
12:21It was just a way of advance tax
12:23which he thought to be a tax scheme.
12:25Is his innocence more
12:27or is the government's cunningness more?
12:31There is no cunningness.
12:33He was thinking that the government
12:35has given him a scheme
12:37and the amount taken in advance tax
12:39is the liability.
12:41But this is not the case.
12:43Did the government make a wrong statement
12:45or did he misunderstand?
12:47No, the government did not make a wrong statement.
12:49The government repeatedly said
12:51that this is an advance tax.
12:53He did not understand.
12:55Mr. Naeem Mir is also with us.
12:57He is the coordinator of the tax scheme.
12:59And of course, we have Mr. Afnanullah
13:01and Senator Humayun.
13:03Mr. Naeem Mir, Assalam-o-Alaikum.
13:05Wa-Alaikum-Salam.
13:07I have already asked a related question.
13:09Mr. Shabbarjahid has already touched on this.
13:11Then we will come to the tax scheme.
13:13He says that the problem is
13:15that even after the government,
13:17there is no representative
13:19of the tax scheme.
13:21You are also a taxpayer.
13:23But your opinion is different
13:25from that of other taxpayers.
13:27Mr. Javed himself said that
13:29he will not comment much about you.
13:31But he thinks that you have a political tilt
13:33towards the political party.
13:35What is the organization
13:37of the trade representatives?
13:39The thing is that
13:41all our trade organizations
13:43are not registered bodies.
13:45They are all
13:47like-minded friends
13:49of the various
13:51district organizations
13:53where elections are held.
13:55They get together
13:57and form a body
13:59of like-minded friends
14:01or like-minded people.
14:03There can be any reason
14:05for that.
14:07People from big cities
14:09can be like-minded.
14:11Some beneficial groups
14:13can be like-minded.
14:15Do you consider yourself
14:17a part of All Pakistan Anjuman-e-Tajran?
14:19Of course,
14:21we are in All Pakistan Anjuman-e-Tajran.
14:23But where are we?
14:25But your opinion is different
14:27from that of other taxpayers.
14:29They are protesting against the tax scheme
14:31Yes, the tax scheme
14:33had provisions in it.
14:35And this is not a protest
14:37against the tax scheme.
14:39Let me clarify this.
14:41He is saying it himself.
14:43I have seen it on TV since morning.
14:45You take my opinion.
14:47The thing is that
14:49this came in 42 cities.
14:51But the protest took place
14:53in more places than 42 cities.
14:55There is no tax scheme in Nawabshah.
14:57There was also a protest there.
14:59This is not a protest
15:01against the tax scheme.
15:03Because the tax scheme
15:05has not been enforced yet.
15:07There has been no action on it.
15:09The real problem is
15:11the price of electricity bills,
15:13the economy is down,
15:15and the real problem is
15:17that the tax is under pressure.
15:19Just like our state
15:21is under pressure.
15:23It is a trickle-down effect.
15:25Let me clarify this too.
15:27Mr. Javed,
15:29please tell me
15:31in detail
15:33what were your demands
15:35for today's protest?
15:37There is the tax scheme,
15:39the price of electricity bill,
15:41but what is the role
15:43of the tax scheme in today's protest?
15:45First of all,
15:47Mr. Balami,
15:49this protest is against
15:51the tax scheme.
15:53My brothers who are
15:55working for the government
15:57do not know
15:59that they introduced
16:01this tax scheme in 6 cities.
16:03After that, they introduced it
16:05in 42 cities.
16:07After that, they introduced it
16:09in 42 cities.
16:11But they are saying
16:13this very simply.
16:15I want to answer
16:17their second question.
16:19We have a registered body
16:21and there is an election.
16:23I don't want to get involved
16:25in this matter.
16:27I don't want to get involved
16:29in this matter.
16:31I don't want to get involved
16:33in this matter.
16:35I don't want to get involved
16:37in this matter.
16:39I don't want to get involved
16:41in this matter.
16:43I don't want to get involved
16:45in this matter.
16:47I don't want to get involved
16:49in this matter.
16:51I don't want to get involved
16:53in this matter.
16:55I don't want to get involved
16:57in this matter.
16:59I don't want to get involved
17:01in this matter.
17:03I don't want to get involved
17:05in this matter.
17:07I don't want to get involved
17:09in this matter.
17:11I don't want to get involved
17:13in this matter.
17:15I don't want to get involved
17:17in this matter.
17:19I don't want to get involved
17:21in this matter.
17:23I don't want to get involved
17:25in this matter.
17:27I don't want to get involved
17:29in this matter.
17:31I don't want to get involved
17:33in this matter.
17:35I don't want to get involved
17:37in this matter.
17:39I don't want to get involved
17:41in this matter.
17:43I don't want to get involved
17:45in this matter.
17:47I don't want to get involved
17:49in this matter.
17:51I don't want to get involved
17:53in this matter.
17:55I don't want to get involved
17:57in this matter.
17:59I don't want to get involved
18:01in this matter.
18:03I don't want to get involved
18:05in this matter.
18:07I don't want to get involved
18:09in this matter.
18:11I don't want to get involved
18:13in this matter.
18:15I don't want to get involved
18:17in this matter.
18:19I don't want to get involved
18:21in this matter.
18:23I don't want to get involved
18:25in this matter.
18:27I don't want to get involved
18:29in this matter.
18:31I don't want to get involved
18:33in this matter.
18:35I don't want to get involved
18:37in this matter.
18:39I don't want to get involved
18:41in this matter.
18:43I don't want to get involved
18:45in this matter.
18:47I don't want to get involved
18:49in this matter.
18:51I don't want to get involved
18:53in this matter.
18:55I don't want to get involved
18:57in this matter.
18:59I don't want to get involved
19:01in this matter.
19:03I don't want to get involved
19:05in this matter.
19:07I don't want to get involved
19:09in this matter.
19:11I don't want to get involved
19:13in this matter.
19:15I don't want to get involved
19:17in this matter.
19:19I don't want to get involved
19:21in this matter.
19:23I don't want to get involved
19:25in this matter.
19:27I don't want to get involved
19:29in this matter.
19:31I don't want to get involved
19:33in this matter.
19:35I don't want to get involved
19:37in this matter.
19:39I don't want to get involved
19:41in this matter.
19:43I don't want to get involved
19:45in this matter.
19:47I don't want to get involved
19:49in this matter.
19:51I don't want to get involved
19:53in this matter.
19:55I don't want to get involved
19:57in this matter.
19:59I don't want to get involved
20:01in this matter.
20:03I don't want to get involved
20:05in this matter.
20:07I don't know
20:09I don't know
20:11I don't know
20:13I don't know
20:15I don't know
20:17I don't know
20:19I don't know
20:21I don't know
20:23I don't know
20:25I don't know
20:27I don't know
20:29I don't know
20:31I don't know
20:33I don't know
20:35I don't know
20:37I don't know
20:39I don't know
20:41I don't know
20:43I don't know
20:45I don't know
20:47I don't know
20:49I don't know
20:51I don't know
20:53I don't know
20:55I don't know
20:57I don't know
20:59I don't know
21:01I don't know
21:03Yassin Akhtar
21:05Yassin Akhtar
21:07Yassin Akhtar
21:09Yasinsakar
21:11Yasinsakar
21:13Yasinsakar
21:15Yasinsakar
21:17Yasinsakar
21:19Yasinsakar
21:21Yasinsakar
21:23Yasinsakar
21:28Yes, if you understand
21:30it with your modulation
21:32If they want to strike, then the law and the constitution allow them to do so.
21:38But they should understand that a scheme under which a tax of Rs 100 to Rs 10,000 per month
21:47will be given to retail and wholesale businesses, depending upon their revenue,
21:55then this is not a big amount.
21:59If this amount is collected, then this tax will be around Rs 50,000.
22:09But if you look at the salaried class, then this year they will pay a tax of Rs 400,000.
22:15Now you tell me, the salaried class is already surviving on their salary,
22:22they are below the business class.
22:25They are paying Rs 400,000, and the businesses are paying Rs 1.5 million,
22:29and they are being taxed, so why should we pay?
22:32So you tell me, is this a fair matter?
22:36But Mr. Rafnaat, Mr. Javed will tell you in detail,
22:39he says that, as you said, the tax should be on the amount you earn.
22:43I have heard this from various programs,
22:46that you have put the tax on the valuation, that if the shop is this much, then the tax will be this much.
22:50This does not happen anywhere in the world.
22:53The thing is, if they have a better criteria, then we are ready to listen to them.
23:02But if the size of the shop is big, then its business, its rent will be high,
23:09its electricity bill will be high, its tax will be high, its revenue will be high.
23:13If the shop is small, then its business will be low.
23:16According to that, or if someone has another idea,
23:19electricity bill or some other idea, then he should take his idea into account.
23:22But you can't put more weight on the salaried class.
23:27You can't go to anyone.
23:30And this is the affluent class of our country, the business class,
23:34which is much better than the salaried class.
23:37So, despite that, if they don't pay the tax, then I can say that this is a sad thing.
23:41As far as it is being said that other classes should be taxed,
23:44agriculture should be taxed, and the other classes,
23:47I completely agree that this should not happen.
23:50That we will not pay tax to a single class.
23:53Everyone should pay tax.
23:54And you also agree, Mr. Afnan, that even in this budget,
23:57we have not seen any reform, in which we say that the start of revolutionary actions
24:01has been right, that these classes should be brought into the tax net in a good way.
24:05Did you see any such revolutionary action in this budget, Mr. Afnan?
24:10Look, this Taajir 2 scheme is an extension,
24:14this program is being extended further.
24:17And there is a country in the IMF program.
24:20We have set targets for tax collection.
24:22According to that, we are moving forward.
24:24And I think that our Taajir brothers,
24:27keeping in mind the situation of the country,
24:30should take a good view,
24:33should look at it in a better way.
24:36Because, you tell me,
24:38there are such big challenges in the country.
24:41If we strike like this,
24:44and there is such a small amount of tax,
24:46Rs. 100 to Rs. 10,000 per month,
24:49if the Taajir brothers can't even pay this,
24:51then you tell me how to move forward.
24:53Then the rest of the classes,
24:55You are saying Rs. 100 to Rs. 10,000,
24:57I am not talking about Mr. Ismail Shah,
24:58he was telling a bigger number than this.
25:00Okay, noted, fine.
25:01Mr. Javed, please, a specific question,
25:03then I will take Mr. Shabbarbhai's explanation.
25:05What is the problem with the Taajir 2 scheme?
25:07Please tell us precisely,
25:08what is wrong and what is not.
25:09Look, first of all,
25:11the tax they have imposed on valuation,
25:13is our biggest objection.
25:15And what is it?
25:16Please explain it in simple words.
25:17In simple words,
25:18they will determine the rent,
25:20this is a shop worth Rs. 2 crores,
25:22they will determine the rent,
25:24and then the tax will be imposed on it.
25:25And the Senator, who is saying,
25:27that this tax is for Rs. 1,000 to Rs. 10,000,
25:31he has sent a notice of Rs. 60,000 to the FVR.
25:34And he is saying,
25:35that Chhota Taajir is paying Rs. 17 billion.
25:38So, my friend has very little knowledge.
25:42Overall, the biggest tax,
25:44Chhota Taajir and our Senator,
25:46is paying the tax right now.
25:48And the country cannot run without tax.
25:50We have never denied the tax.
25:53We have said,
25:54that it should be an easy way,
25:55and this tax scheme will not stop here.
25:58The tax that they imposed on Taajir 2,
26:01that Rs. 1,200 per month,
26:03will be imposed on you.
26:07But along with this,
26:08they have done one more thing,
26:10which is,
26:11the registration of people,
26:13has been put in the Taajir 2 scheme.
26:16What kind of law is this?
26:17In which country,
26:18is this tax imposed on them?
26:19So, you are saying,
26:20that your fundamental objection is,
26:21that the 10% tax on market value,
26:24you have an objection on that.
26:25You are saying,
26:26that as much as...
26:27Bill, Bill, Bill, Bill,
26:28Mr. Badami, you are right.
26:29Mr. Shabbar,
26:30how logical or illogical,
26:32do you find this objection,
26:33that Mr. Javed is saying?
26:36Look, the thing is,
26:38first of all,
26:39I am very happy,
26:41that the thing has reached this point,
26:45and I was waiting for this strike,
26:49and this place to be deadlocked.
26:52And it has to be deadlocked.
26:55And the reason for this deadlock is,
26:58that there is no mutual trust,
27:02between the government and the merchants.
27:04Why are you happy about this?
27:05This is wrong.
27:07Yes, I am very happy.
27:08Why?
27:09I am very happy,
27:10because now things are in the right place.
27:13When your fight is over,
27:16then the decision is made.
27:18Okay.
27:19If, if, if,
27:20that is why I am happy,
27:22that I was waiting for this thing,
27:24that this Taajir 2 scheme comes,
27:27and then it fails,
27:29and after it fails,
27:31there is a strike on it,
27:34and now we will sit down,
27:36and decide what has to happen.
27:38If a merchant thinks,
27:41that he will take a fixed tax,
27:43and limit it to Rs. 10,000,
27:45or limit it to Rs. 1,000,
27:47then his dream is empty.
27:49Ultimately,
27:51he will have to pay tax on his income.
27:54This is wrong.
27:58What?
27:59I am saying,
28:00this is what should happen.
28:01What are you saying?
28:02Tax on income.
28:03This is what should happen.
28:04Yes, we will have to pay tax on income.
28:06There is a clear position from IMF.
28:09Naeem is also right,
28:11that we will have to pay tax on income.
28:13This is our habit,
28:16that this scheme, that scheme,
28:18fixed tax scheme,
28:20all these can be done by very small merchants,
28:22not by medium and big merchants.
28:25But Mr. Javed,
28:26Mr. Shabbar has an objection,
28:27that on the basis of market value,
28:29you are determining the revenue.
28:31I agree,
28:33that there should be no market value.
28:36I agree.
28:37I mean to say,
28:38understand what I am saying.
28:40My question is,
28:42that there is a very small merchant,
28:44you can put a fixed scheme on him.
28:46But you tell me,
28:48is Bori Bazar,
28:49Akbari Bindi,
28:50Anarkali,
28:51Liberty,
28:52will you put it in Raja Bazar?
28:54What are you saying?
28:56You are saying,
28:57that my shop is in Raja Bazar,
28:59my shop is in Anarkali,
29:01my shop is on Hall Road,
29:03should I give you salary tax of Rs. 10,000?
29:06What happened to you?
29:07We are in our census.
29:09These are useless talks.
29:11And this,
29:13this thing,
29:14is reaching on its logical basis.
29:17This is one strike,
29:18there will be more strikes,
29:20and they will deadlock each other.
29:22And after deadlocking,
29:24the government,
29:25now the government will have to decide,
29:27and our establishment,
29:29whether they want to take tax from the merchants or not.
29:33This thing,
29:34that there should be reform in FBR,
29:36this should happen in FBR,
29:38that should happen in FBR,
29:39this is just,
29:40from both sides,
29:42an attempt to twist things.
29:44And I want to say this for the last time,
29:47that any scheme,
29:49any scheme,
29:50can never be applied generally on the retailer.
29:54It should not be.
29:56Every person has to pay tax on their income.
30:00This is the fundamental.
30:02Now you are the coordinator of the scheme,
30:04you tell us,
30:05clearly Mr. Javed and Mr. Shabbar told us,
30:07that this is their opinion,
30:09that this is not the way to decide on the basis of market value,
30:13you have to pay tax on income.
30:14So you tell us, what do you have to say on this, Mr. Naeem?
30:16Look, the thing is,
30:18that tax will be taken on income,
30:20when someone expresses their income,
30:23in their tax return,
30:24then that will be taxed.
30:26If no one is satisfied with that income,
30:29then the tax authority will audit it.
30:33This is a very simple method.
30:35Now the real problem is,
30:37that when people do not deposit tax returns,
30:40then who will determine their income?
30:44There has to be a way,
30:46an indicator.
30:48Now this indicator has been made,
30:50there is an objection on it.
30:52Very good.
30:53Very good.
30:54Mr. Shabbar Zaidi raised the objection.
30:56Mr. Javed Qureshi raised the objection.
31:00He says,
31:01that tax should be paid on income.
31:03Then there is only one way to determine the income,
31:06that is the point of sale.
31:08There is no other way.
31:10Then it means,
31:11when they are demanding,
31:12our retailers,
31:13to pay tax on our income,
31:15then they are demanding,
31:17that our shops should have a point of sale.
31:20Yes, absolutely right.
31:21Then they should make their demand clear,
31:24and loud.
31:25Then these things will not be hidden.
31:27Mr. Javed, the problem is,
31:28that when the point of sale comes,
31:29there will be an objection on that too.
31:30No, no, no.
31:31What Mr. Mir is saying,
31:33the point of sale is already there.
31:35It is not there in every shop in Pakistan.
31:38Yes, it cannot be there in every shop in Pakistan.
31:42Mr. Mir, please give me a chance to speak.
31:45I had to take my time.
31:47Okay, you speak.
31:48If you have asked me a question,
31:50then let me answer it.
31:52When you ask Mr. Mir a question,
31:54then he should also answer it.
31:55He has a right.
31:56He should also get time.
31:57Let him complete.
31:59Let Mr. Naeem complete.
32:00Mr. Naeem, it is your turn.
32:01I am saying,
32:02that this is what it means.
32:03And when we go to the point of sale,
32:06then the biggest fight we had,
32:08during the era of Shabbar Zaidi,
32:10that when he put a point of sale
32:12on the basis of rakhwa,
32:13there were riots,
32:14there was a dispute,
32:15and then the law of the point of sale
32:17ended on the basis of rakhwa.
32:19That is, the point of sale means
32:21that there will be a registration of the sales tax,
32:24then you will have to pay the value addition tax,
32:26then you will have to keep that Babu,
32:29then you will have to keep that box,
32:31there will also be someone to run it,
32:33who is called a computer.
32:34When you have to do all these things,
32:36then your compliance cost will increase.
32:39Now, keeping all these things in mind,
32:42this is an indicative income,
32:45that is, a conceptual income,
32:47which can also be wrong,
32:48it can also be right.
32:50Now, the tax that has been imposed
32:52on this conceptual and conceptual income
32:54is adjustable.
32:56And it has even been said
32:58that after a year,
32:59you take credit for this tax
33:01in your bank account,
33:02its expression has been shown
33:04in the easy tax return,
33:06that your easy tax return form
33:08and I will give my account number
33:10and this amount will be credited in it.
33:12So, I think the restrictions
33:14that were in it,
33:15they have been removed.
33:16I know, when I was handling this responsibility,
33:18then I told the Prime Minister
33:20all its flaws.
33:22He said that we will fix it, God willing.
33:24And now we are going to fix it.
33:26And the last thing,
33:27this tax table,
33:28which has been issued on the basis
33:30of different areas,
33:32has now become a committee
33:33of the additional commissioner level.
33:35And in that,
33:36it has been inducted and said
33:38that if you have an objection
33:40to our tax table,
33:41then you yourself sit with our commissioner
33:44and tell us
33:45in which area
33:46how much tax should be imposed
33:48on the indicative income.
33:50In our opinion,
33:51this is the income.
33:52In your opinion,
33:53this is the conceptual income.
33:54Noted. Fair. New medium.
33:56New medium.
33:57Waseem, give me a minute.
33:59Say it.
34:00Waseem, give me a minute.
34:01Say it.
34:02Waseem, I am saying
34:04that Mr. Naeem has said a very good thing.
34:06This is indicative income.
34:08It is not final income tax.
34:10Yes.
34:11Understood.
34:12Yes.
34:13Your traders are understanding
34:16that this is final income.
34:18Mr. Naeem is right.
34:20This is indicative income
34:22and this is adjustable
34:23against final income.
34:25This is the deception
34:26that has happened to the traders.
34:28And when they have come to their senses,
34:30now they have come to the streets.
34:32Right.
34:33What is the deception in this?
34:35He is saying that you have not given.
34:37He has done it.
34:38No.
34:39He has done it.
34:41You have not done it.
34:43You have not done it.
34:44He has done it.
34:45He has done it.
34:46Okay.
34:47Give me a chance.
34:49Mr. Naeem, thank you very much.
34:51Let's take a break.
34:52Mr. Naeem, thank you very much.
34:53I will talk to you after the break.
35:04Welcome.
35:05Quickly.
35:06PTI's Senator Humayun Momin.
35:08Mr. Humayun, tell us.
35:09Mr. Naeem has explained this in full detail.
35:12It is clear that this is the first step
35:15to bring this class to the tax rate.
35:17And because overnight
35:18it is practically not possible
35:20that you can determine
35:21the monthly income of every trader in Pakistan.
35:23We all know.
35:24I am sure you would also agree
35:25that this mechanism cannot be made overnight.
35:27So, this imaginary income
35:28which is adjustable,
35:29can you determine
35:30what is wrong in it, Mr. Humayun?
36:00The bigger the shop is,
36:02the higher the expenses will be.
36:07So, it is not necessary
36:08that if it is a big shop,
36:09then its income will be more than that of a small shop.
36:12Which I call net income.
36:14That means after expenses.
36:16It is possible that
36:17the income after expenses
36:19is that of a small shop
36:20in which your expenses are very less
36:24and its net income is more.
36:26You are right.
36:27A high-end shop
36:28is a very good phrase.
36:29This is not how it started in the market.
36:30But you and I are saying
36:32that we should improve the criteria.
36:34But in principle,
36:36this approach is right.
36:37In your opinion as well.
36:39Look, in principle,
36:40direct taxation is better.
36:43But in Pakistan,
36:44it is the same thing
36:45that here,
36:46there is no documentation.
36:50Secondly,
36:51at the government level,
36:52we have legalized dishonesty.
36:55For example,
36:56the so-called DC rate
36:59is basically dishonesty.
37:02Basically,
37:03you are making black money.
37:05You are legally showing
37:06a property worth 5 crores
37:07to a property worth 2 crores.
37:09Okay,
37:10after that,
37:11let me tell you one thing.
37:12All the houses in Islamabad,
37:13all the houses in F6, F7, F8,
37:16which are of two canals,
37:17four canals,
37:18are not less than 15 to 20 lakhs.
37:21Go and see
37:22how much tax their owners are paying.
37:25They take cash from you.
37:27They don't pay you tax.
37:30So, Mr. Shabbar,
37:31when the government has taken a step
37:32to solve these problems,
37:33to bring a group of people
37:34under tax,
37:35the merchants have raided
37:36and you are standing with them.
37:38No, no, no.
37:39Look, the thing is,
37:40we are standing with them
37:42because if you look at the whole package,
37:44there is injustice in the whole package.
37:47If you are with a merchant,
37:49I am telling you
37:50that in a way,
37:51I am working.
37:52I am paying tax.
37:53I am also paying rent.
37:54I am doing everything.
37:55But when you are increasing
37:56the net tax on me,
37:58you are putting indirect tax on me,
38:01you are taking advance tax from me,
38:03which later becomes a problem.
38:05So, in the end,
38:06I feel like
38:07I can't earn anything from this business.
38:10So, what is happening
38:11is that people are going out of Pakistan
38:13and then you are increasing
38:14electricity bills.
38:15When you look at all these things,
38:17there is a lot of injustice
38:19that starts happening.
38:20So, Mr. Afnan,
38:21what is the solution to this,
38:22Mr. Afnan,
38:23being a government?
38:24Look,
38:25Mr. Shabbarbhai was also saying
38:26that we are stuck.
38:27On one hand,
38:28the merchant says
38:29that you are hitting me
38:30with electricity from here,
38:31the rent has increased so much from here,
38:32the purchasing power of the customer has died,
38:34so the footfall has already reduced.
38:36And on top of that,
38:37you are also hitting this,
38:38so he is crying.
38:39The government is crying
38:40that brother,
38:41if you want to run the country,
38:42you will run the country
38:43when the money comes.
38:44So, we are stuck.
38:45What is the solution to this,
38:46Mr. Afnan?
38:49Look,
38:50the solution to this
38:51is that
38:52we want to onboard
38:53the merchant community
38:54with us
38:55and we want to review
38:56their legitimate demands
38:57and we want to take the matter
38:58forward.
38:59But,
39:00you understand this,
39:01the representatives
39:02of the merchant community
39:03who were here,
39:04they said
39:05that this number
39:06is not correct
39:07that I am telling you.
39:08They are listening to you now.
39:09You tell me
39:10that in Pakistan,
39:11how many businesses
39:12are there
39:13in the shops
39:14that are working
39:15on cash?
39:16Millions.
39:17Where are they
39:18coming from?
39:19Where are they
39:20coming from?
39:21Where are they
39:22registered?
39:23Where are they
39:24registered?
39:25Where are they
39:26paying taxes?
39:27You tell me.
39:28It is happening in the air.
39:29Because,
39:30I am saying that
39:31if you say
39:32that we are
39:33paying taxes,
39:34then somewhere
39:35it will be reflected
39:36in the collection.
39:37So,
39:38what we have
39:39checked
39:40is this.
39:41And,
39:42there is not
39:43that much tax
39:44as well.
39:45There are such
39:46merchants
39:47who have
39:48revenue of
39:49crores of rupees.
39:50There are no
39:51big shops
39:52and the work
39:53of gold has
39:54been done.
39:55There is revenue
39:56of crores of rupees.
39:57If you cannot
39:58pay tax
39:59of Rs 10,000
40:00per month,
40:01then this is
40:02a matter
40:03of regret.
40:04And,
40:05if you have
40:06problems
40:07then what
40:08can a person
40:09say?
40:10You were
40:11saying Rs 10,000
40:12earlier as well.
40:13Mr. Javed
40:14disagreed with
40:15that.
40:16I was
40:17talking to
40:18Mr. Ismail
40:19and he
40:20said that
40:21this is
40:22a matter
40:23of regret.
40:24And,
40:25there is
40:26not
40:27that much
40:28tax as
40:29well.
40:30There is
40:31revenue
40:32of crores
40:33of rupees.
40:34There is
40:35revenue
40:36of crores
40:37of rupees.
40:38There is
40:39revenue
40:40of crores
40:41of rupees.
40:42There is
40:43revenue
40:44of crores
40:45of rupees.
40:46There is
40:47revenue
40:48of crores
40:49of rupees.
40:50There is
40:51revenue
40:52of crores
40:53of rupees.
40:54There is
40:55revenue
40:56of crores
40:57of rupees.
40:58There is
40:59revenue
41:00of crores
41:01of rupees.
41:02There is
41:03revenue
41:04of crores
41:05of rupees.
41:06There is
41:07revenue
41:08of crores
41:09of rupees.
41:10There is
41:11revenue
41:12of crores
41:13of rupees.
41:14There is
41:15revenue
41:16of crores
41:17of rupees.
41:18There is
41:19revenue
41:20of crores
41:21of rupees.
41:22There is
41:23revenue
41:24of crores
41:25of rupees.
41:26There is
41:27revenue
41:28of crores
41:29of rupees.
41:30There is
41:31revenue
41:32of crores
41:33of rupees.
41:34There is
41:35revenue
41:36of crores
41:37of rupees.
41:38There is
41:39revenue
41:40of crores
41:41of rupees.
41:42There is
41:43revenue
41:44of crores
41:45of rupees.
41:46There
41:47is
41:48revenue
41:49of crores
41:50of rupees.
41:51There
41:52is
41:53revenue
41:54of crores
41:55of rupees.
41:56There
41:57is
41:58revenue
41:59of crores
42:00of rupees.
42:01There
42:02is
42:03revenue
42:04of crores
42:05of rupees.
42:06There
42:07is
42:08revenue
42:09of crores
42:10of rupees.
42:11There
42:12is
42:13revenue
42:14of crores
42:15of rupees.
42:16There
42:17is
42:18revenue
42:19of crores
42:20of rupees.
42:21There
42:22is
42:23revenue
42:24of crores
42:25of rupees.
42:26There
42:27is
42:28revenue
42:29of crores
42:30of rupees.
42:31There
42:32is
42:33revenue
42:34of crores
42:35of rupees.
42:36There
42:37is
42:38revenue
42:39of crores
42:40of rupees.
42:41There
42:42is
42:43revenue
42:44of
42:45crores
42:46of
42:47rupees.
42:48There
42:49is
42:50revenue
42:51of
42:52crores
42:53of
42:54rupees.
42:55There
42:56is
42:57revenue
42:58of
42:59crores
43:00of
43:01rupees.
43:02There
43:03is
43:04revenue
43:05of
43:06crores
43:07of
43:08rupees.
43:09There
43:10is
43:11revenue
43:12of
43:13crores
43:14of
43:15rupees.
43:43There
43:44is
43:45revenue
43:46of
43:47crores
43:48of
43:49rupees.
43:50There
43:51is
43:52revenue
43:53of
43:54crores
43:55of
43:56rupees.
43:57There
43:58is
43:59revenue
44:00of
44:01crores
44:02of
44:03rupees.
44:04There
44:05is
44:06revenue
44:07of
44:08crores
44:09of
44:10rupees.
44:11There
44:12is
44:13revenue
44:14of
44:15crores
44:16of
44:17rupees.
44:18There
44:19is
44:20revenue
44:21of
44:22crores
44:23of
44:24rupees.
44:25There
44:26is
44:27revenue
44:28of
44:29crores
44:30of
44:31rupees.
44:32There
44:33is
44:34revenue
44:35of
44:36crores
44:37of
44:38rupees.
44:39There
44:40is
44:41revenue
44:42of
44:43crores
44:44of
44:45rupees.
44:46There
44:47is
44:48revenue
44:49of
44:50crores
44:51of
44:52rupees.
44:53There
44:54is
44:55revenue
44:56of
44:57crores
44:58of
44:59rupees.
45:00There
45:01is
45:02revenue
45:03of
45:04crores
45:05of
45:06rupees.
45:07There
45:08is
45:09revenue
45:10of
45:11crores
45:12of
45:13rupees.
45:14There
45:15is
45:16revenue
45:17of
45:18crores
45:19of
45:20rupees.
45:21There
45:22is
45:23revenue
45:24of
45:25crores
45:26of
45:27rupees.
45:28There
45:29is
45:30revenue
45:31of
45:32crores
45:33of
45:34rupees.
45:35There
45:36is
45:37revenue
45:38of
45:39crores
45:40of
45:41rupees.
45:42There
45:43is
45:44revenue
45:45of
45:46crores
45:47of
45:48rupees.
45:49There
45:50is
45:51revenue
45:52of
45:53crores
45:54of
45:55rupees.
45:56There
45:57is
45:58revenue
45:59of
46:00crores
46:01of
46:02rupees.
46:03There
46:04is
46:05revenue
46:06of
46:07crores
46:08of
46:09rupees.
46:10There
46:11is
46:12revenue
46:13of
46:14crores
46:15of
46:16rupees.
46:17There
46:18is
46:19revenue
46:20of
46:21crores
46:22of
46:23rupees.
46:24There
46:25is
46:26revenue
46:27of
46:28crores
46:29of
46:30rupees.
46:31There
46:32is
46:33revenue
46:34of
46:35crores
46:36of
46:37rupees.
46:38There
46:39is
46:40revenue
46:41of
46:42crores
46:43of
46:44rupees.
46:45There
46:46is
46:47revenue
46:48of
46:49crores
46:50of
46:51rupees.
46:52There
46:53is
46:54revenue
46:55of
46:56crores
46:57of
46:58rupees.
46:59There
47:00is
47:01revenue
47:02of
47:03crores
47:04of
47:05rupees.
47:06There
47:07is
47:08revenue
47:09of
47:10crores
47:11of
47:12rupees.
47:13There
47:14is
47:15revenue
47:16of
47:17crores
47:18of
47:19rupees.
47:20There
47:21is
47:22revenue
47:23of
47:24crores
47:25of
47:26rupees.
47:27There
47:28is
47:29revenue
47:30of
47:31crores
47:32of
47:33rupees.
47:34There
47:35is
47:36revenue
47:37of
47:38crores
47:39of
47:40rupees.
47:41There
47:42is
47:43revenue
47:44of
47:45crores
47:46of
47:47rupees.
47:48There
47:49is
47:50revenue
47:51of
47:52crores
47:53of
47:54rupees.
47:55There
47:56is
47:57revenue
47:58of
47:59crores
48:00of
48:01rupees.
48:02There
48:03is
48:04revenue
48:05of
48:06crores
48:07of
48:08rupees.
48:09There
48:10is
48:11revenue
48:12of
48:13crores
48:14of
48:15rupees.
48:16There
48:17is
48:18revenue
48:19of
48:20crores
48:21of
48:22rupees.
48:23There
48:24is
48:25revenue
48:26of
48:27crores
48:28of
48:29rupees.
48:30There
48:31is
48:32revenue
48:33of
48:34crores
48:35of
48:36rupees.
48:37There
48:38is
48:39revenue
48:40of
48:41crores
48:42of
48:43rupees.
48:44There
48:45is
48:46revenue
48:47of
48:48crores
48:49of
48:50rupees.
48:51There
48:52is
48:53revenue
48:54of
48:55crores
48:56of
48:57rupees.
48:58There
48:59is
49:00revenue
49:01of
49:02crores
49:03of
49:04rupees.
49:05There
49:06is
49:07revenue
49:08of
49:09crores
49:10of
49:11rupees.
49:12There
49:13is
49:14revenue
49:15of
49:16crores
49:17of
49:18rupees.
49:19There
49:20is
49:21revenue
49:22of
49:23crores
49:24of
49:25rupees.
49:26There
49:27is
49:28revenue
49:29of
49:30crores
49:31of
49:32rupees.
49:33There
49:34is
49:35revenue
49:36of
49:37crores
49:38of
49:39rupees.
49:40There
49:41is
49:42revenue
49:43of
49:44crores
49:45of
49:46rupees.
49:47There
49:48is
49:49revenue
49:50of
49:51crores
49:52of
49:53rupees.
49:54There
49:55is
49:56revenue
49:57of
49:58crores
49:59of
50:00rupees.
50:01There
50:02is
50:03revenue
50:04of
50:05crores
50:06of
50:07rupees.
50:08There
50:09is
50:10revenue
50:11of
50:12crores
50:13of
50:14rupees.
50:15There
50:16is
50:17revenue
50:18of
50:19crores
50:20of
50:21rupees.
50:22There
50:23is
50:24revenue
50:25of
50:26crores
50:27of
50:28rupees.
50:29There
50:30is
50:31revenue
50:32of
50:33crores
50:34of
50:35rupees.
50:36There
50:37is
50:38revenue
50:39of
50:40crores
50:41of
50:42rupees.
50:43There
50:44is
50:45revenue
50:46of
50:47crores
50:48of
50:49rupees.
50:50There
50:51is
50:52revenue
50:53of
50:54crores
50:55of
50:56rupees.
50:57There
50:58is
50:59revenue
51:00of
51:01crores
51:02of
51:03rupees.
51:04There
51:05is
51:06revenue
51:07of
51:08crores
51:09of
51:10rupees.
51:11There
51:12is
51:13revenue
51:14of
51:15crores
51:16of
51:17rupees.