Scran: Stirling's secret food and drink past

The Scotsman

To mark the 900th anniversary of the Royal Burgh of Stirling, Forth Valley Food and Drink has launched a series of four captivating short documentaries that delve into the lesser-known stories of Stirling’s rich food and drink heritage. Rosalind wanted to learn more about this series so spoke to Lesley Wilkinson who researched and commissioned the films and Murray Cook, Stirling Council's archaeologist to learn more. Lesley talks about why the films came about and some of the amazing finds they made in the process of researching the films including about a world-record breaking grape vine. Stirling Castle and Bannockburn House feature in the series as do fascinating stories about how Bonnie Prince Charlie was treated for an injury there using a posset. Funded by Scotland Food and Drink’s Regional Food Fund, the films uncover a range of unexpected tales including how the first dram was drunk there by James IV in 1494 and how the first firework was also set off there. Murray also shares stories of beer witches and those being accused of witchcraft and the sad fate they met.

Transcript

00:00I'm joined now by Lesley and Murray, and we're going to chat a bit about the rich and really

00:08interesting history of Stirling. There's a lot of things I didn't know about, because

00:13there's a series of short YouTube films out just now. But before we get into all that,

00:19could I just start with Lesley, and can you just introduce yourself and let us know who

00:24you are and what's going on with Stirling's food and drink history in all their little

00:30videos?

00:31Yeah, so I'm Lesley Wilkinson. I run a company called Stirling PR. I also help run a food

00:36and drink network in Stirling called Fourth Valley Food and Drink. So we obviously are

00:42celebrating Stirling's 900th birthday this year. And I was just kind of conscious that

00:48people kind of know a lot about Stirling's history. They think about William Wallace,

00:52Robert the Bruce, but they don't really think about Stirling's food and drink history.

00:57So I wanted to uncover the kind of lesser known tales about Stirling. And I feel like

01:02Stirling's got some really good food and drink stories to tell.

01:06And Murray, what about you? Because they all seem to focus around like kings and queens

01:10in the castle and all that.

01:13It's very true. So my name is Murray Cook. I'm Stirling Council's archaeologist, and

01:20I kind of get called in to talk about Stirling's history and its past. And really, Stirling

01:27is one of the most important places in Scottish history because of its sitting at the lowest

01:33crossing point of the fourth. So the castles there, the kings, the queens, the battles

01:39all take place around Stirling because of that crossing point. And basically for the

01:44last 2,000 years, from the Romans through to the Jacobites, Stirling has been this kind

01:50of tight pinch point in Scottish history where everything that needs to happen has to go

01:57through Stirling. And therefore, the kind of food and drink cascades all out from that.

02:02So it's a fascinating spot.

02:03Yeah, I mean, as I said, there's a lot of things I didn't know. And there's a lot of

02:09things that obviously we could write about, which is great. But I mentioned the kings

02:16and queens and the castle. In one of the first episodes, you talk about there's a three-day

02:22banquet held by Mary, Queen of Scots. Do we know the types of food that would have been

02:25eaten at that? I don't know if you want to go first, Murray, since it's all about food.

02:32Very happy to go forward with that. So in effect, where the monarchs are here, and you're

02:38really looking, the kind of peak is James IV to James V. So the late 15th through to

02:44the early 17th century, Scotland is independent, right? And wherever the monarch is, is the

02:52kind of, in effect, the de facto capital. So the monarch moves around castles for banqueting,

03:00for kind of court decisions, for moving around, making sure people aren't kind of plotting

03:06against them. So we have a series of very, very elaborate feasts throughout history,

03:11wherever the monarch is. So we sometimes have the menus, we sometimes have the budgets.

03:18We know that typically the equivalent 60 to 70,000 pounds is being spent on a kind of

03:26a banquet at these places, along with fireworks, along with plays, along with pipers, candles

03:33are being celebrated. And within all of this, there's a kind of, there's a background of

03:38religion. Everybody's Catholic prior to the Reformation, so baptisms, Christmas feasts,

03:46they're all religious ceremonies. The religious ceremonies where the monarch is saying to

03:51the world, yes, Scotland is here, Scotland's a major player in Europe, and here is what

03:57we can do. So when you do see the menus, it combines both tradition with the best.

04:04So sometimes Christmas meals have a hog's head, which is a kind of traditional Christmas

04:09feast. There's salmon, there's boar, there's rabbits, there's pig's feet. And actually

04:16that enormous range of food, mostly meat-based, lots of bread as well. And all of that is

04:27a celebration of power and the kind of the wealth of Scotland to saying to an international

04:33audience, this is what Scotland does, we're still here, you know, watch out for us.

04:40And there was also the first fireworks display was at Stirling Castle, is that right?

04:45What would that have looked like?

04:47Well, the fireworks would look astonishing. They're not as sophisticated as we have them

04:54today. But in a place where there's no electric lights, where, you know, when it gets dark,

05:02there's normally a curfew. People aren't on the streets. And if you're in the streets,

05:07you might be up to no good, or the authorities might suspect you're up to no good. So the

05:13idea that the whole of the night sky would be aflame with these kind of bright bursts,

05:19although we're not necessarily the first, we are claiming that, but our kind of bigger brother

05:25in Edinburgh also claims to have the first fireworks too. So there's a bit of a fight

05:31going on between Stirling and Edinburgh for who precisely has that. But it's all to do with this

05:38baptism of the future, James the Sixth. It's Mary, Queen of Scots, saying to Protestants,

05:45saying to people in England, saying to our enemies at the court, you know, I've had a son,

05:51this is my male heir. We're French backed, we're Catholic, we're very proud of it. And here's some

05:57fireworks to prove it, along with a big feast. And it's all about statements and power.

06:04And Leslie, was there anything when you first started getting into this that you're quite

06:08surprised at when it came to the Food and Drink House today?

06:12At the castle specifically, or just in general?

06:14Just in general, because there's a lot of things that came up in the films that I was like,

06:17I did not know that. I did not know that.

06:20I mean, the castle feasts are obviously really spectacular. And obviously, Mary, Queen of Scots'

06:26son, James, his original baptism, he also threw a big party as well. So he has a giant ship pulled

06:33into the Great Hall, and the people would eat the food off the decks, they fired brass cannons,

06:37so they obviously went for it big still when they went for, you know, partying up at the castle.

06:43But I think the biggest one for me, probably the most surprising one for me would be the

06:48Kipping grapevine. So to find out that Stirling was once home to the largest grapevine in the

06:53world, to me just seems like, seems a bit mad really, a bit of claim like that. You know,

06:59if you think about all the kind of places we think of as where you would get, you know,

07:02grapes from, we think about France or Italy, but you know, I wouldn't think of a little village

07:08near Stirlingshire. But yes, it did. And back in, it was 1891, the vine was planted.

07:16It was the gardener from Killian Castle, who came, he leased some land in Kipping,

07:22planted some vines, one particular vine, the Gross Coleman, took off,

07:26and ended up growing to about 300 feet long. It was about 5000 square feet. It was over several

07:34heated glass houses. And we actually caught up with a lady who lives in Kipping now,

07:39who still remembers the vine from when she was a child. So the vine was cut down in the 60s.

07:45Unfortunately, when the family retired, they couldn't find someone to buy the vine and take

07:51it over. But a lot of people in the village still have cuttings of the vine. So we got to see some

07:56cuttings from the original vine in greenhouses, which was really nice. And also really great to

08:01get the memories of people who remember it being there. So yeah, I mean, a fantastic visitor

08:07attraction in its day. There was a Scotsman News article with the world's largest vine on the front

08:14cover that we can supply you with. But apparently, it attracted over 20,000 visitors a year.

08:20They got about 3000 bunches of grapes off it in a good year. So a massive enterprise, obviously,

08:26employed a lot of people locally as well. And lots of kind of skilled work to keep the vine

08:32vine growing. So yeah, I think that was the one for me kind of like really kind of,

08:37I suppose surprised me the most.

08:40Yeah, it's really surprising. Do you think anyone who's got a cutting from is going to try and

08:44grow another massive vine?

08:46Well, we did we did chat about the grapes because I've been to I am in producing the series,

08:52I did visit a lot of people in Kipping to find out a bit more about the vine. So I have seen

08:55some offshoots of it. I think unfortunately, because of the weather in Scotland, and without

08:59having a heated greenhouse, the grapes don't grow to a very big size. So Margaret, who I spoke to

09:04in the series, and she remembers all these these giant juicy grapes from our childhoods, and the

09:10ones in her greenhouse this summer, not quite so big, not quite so sweet. And you know, so I think,

09:16you know, I think it's supposed to be the right, you know, recipe. I mean, as I mentioned today,

09:19it may be a bit expensive to heat those greenhouses. And but yeah, so I suppose like a

09:24fantastic claim to fame for Kipping.

09:28Yeah, definitely. And like you say, no one was expecting that. Something else that I wasn't

09:34expecting, Murray, was the first jam was drunk at Stirling Castle. Do we know any more about that?

09:41Well, yes. So this is another one of these slightly complicated things. But basically,

09:46the first record of a royal order for whisky is James IV in 1494. Now, what this means is it's

09:56being bought for the royal estate. So it's inconceivable that he isn't drinking it in

10:03Stirling Castle, because Stirling is his second favourite place to be after Edinburgh. So wherever

10:10the king goes, the whisky goes with them. So we're looking at the first drams being drank

10:17quite well, again, rivalry between Edinburgh and Stirling. But it's inconceivable that the king

10:24isn't traveling with whisky. And the fact that he knows that this is an order, I think it's likely

10:31that there are orders prior to this point. But again, you know, this is one of those things that

10:37binds the kingdom together. You're getting people from the upper lands, the highlands are actually

10:43placing orders. You're getting everybody congregating around the king. And James is very interested in

10:50binding kind of highland and lowland elements of Scotland together. So everybody comes to Stirling

10:56when he's there. And everybody is getting fed. And everybody is getting drunk on whisky, you know,

11:02and the amount that he buys. And I was thinking about this, that this feeding thing,

11:09the feasting thing, we've spoken about it. And James is likely to build Stirling's Great Hall,

11:15which at the time was the biggest feasting hall in Britain, right? Absolutely huge. It's still

11:22upstanding. It's the big yellow building when you go there. Now, his brother-in-law, Henry VIII,

11:29found out that this was the biggest feasting hall in Britain and built one that was slightly bigger.

11:37But it gives you this kind of idea about the rivalry, about the jostling between the kingdoms.

11:44And it's simply inconceivable that there wouldn't have been whisky, that early whisky, drank in

11:50the Great Hall, toasted quite what it tasted like. And I'm sure it's a single malt

11:57rather than a blend. But coming out of barrels, how much would they have watered it down? Would

12:03they have watered it down at all? All of it being mixed, all of it to celebrate James, an independent

12:10kingdom. And that kind of food story, our food traditions, feeding right into the kind of politics

12:19of the kingdom. I was just going to say on top of that, I think that one of the things that

12:26came through the series as well was this idea of conspicuous consumption, about people wanting

12:32to be shown how wealthy they were. And I think one of the things that Murray and I talked about

12:38early on when we were researching the series was to do with obviously West Stirling becoming a royal

12:42borough. It meant that it could start to import goods for the first time as well. So spices would

12:47have been really important. And that would have been one way that people would have showed off

12:50their wealth by the spices they had and the food. Which kind of leads on a little bit to the other

12:57wee story in the series as well at Bannockburn House. So we know that Bonnie Prince Charlie

13:02stayed at Bannockburn House and used it as a battle headquarters. But one time when he was there,

13:08he was injured and he was nursed back to health by the niece of the owner of the house, a lady

13:15called Clementina Walkinshaw. And they ended up having a child together. But Clementina made

13:23Bonnie Prince Charlie a medicinal posset. So he, which wouldn't be like the kind of possets that

13:28we would have now, it was more like a curdled milk. But then again, it would also have been

13:33kind of heavily laid with spices and alcohol. So that obviously was the way to get him back to

13:40health. So yeah, so really kind of interesting things that I suppose people wouldn't, people

13:44obviously know about the association perhaps of Bonnie Prince Charlie with Bannockburn House,

13:47but maybe not about the foods that he would have eaten there when he was there.

13:52Yeah, and then the thing, posset you recognise, but like you say, it's nothing like what we would

13:57have now. So it's interesting that these things like start off and then develop and are still

14:00around in a kind of form now, which is quite cool. Yeah, yeah. And I think it's been quite

14:05fascinating as well. The house have found like, you know, recipes, receipts. We found out, although

14:12we don't feature in this series, that coal from the grounds of the house actually were used in

14:17the castle kitchens at Stirling Castle as well. So there was lots of kind of circular connections

14:21that we found between different stories in the series as well. So I think it's been really

14:26fascinating. I think as someone who is from Stirling and has lived here all my life, you know,

14:30to find out something new has been really quite exciting, you know. And I think that also just

14:35kind of, it's nice to look at Stirling's history through like a food and drink lens rather than

14:39just thinking about the kind of obvious subjects. Yeah, definitely. And one of the other things that

14:45I thought was very interesting was the beer witches. So obviously there was women making

14:49beer and you could get, you know, accused of being a witch. Could you tell us a bit more about

14:54that? And if anyone was actually accused and, you know, burned at stake for doing that?

15:00So obviously, it's worth making that clear. It's always worth making that clear. The witchcraft,

15:09the witchcraft, back at each other, getting back at each other. And, you know, and here in Stirling,

15:25we have more, Stirling, we have more, so we don't, so we don't, there are people getting into trouble.

15:38There are people getting, you know, politicians, you know, a branch or a scald's bridle.

15:50And this stops, this is an iron mask, and it has something to stop your tongue moving so that your,

15:56stops you casting a spell. And depending on your kind of crime and the severity of it,

16:02you might have to wear it, you might have to carry it round, and round the city as part of

16:06your punishment. But we certainly have women who are executed for witchcraft in Stirling,

16:13and some of the places associated with their so-called crime are still upstanding. So this

16:19idea of the beer witches, a lot of that's just jealousy. Get a rival out the way, call them a

16:26witch, and then move in on their business practices. And, you know, just a horrendous period to live in.

16:33And beer is essential at the time, because you can't drink the water,

16:37because it's full of horrible things. You need the beer.

16:45And is, am I right in saying it was mainly women doing this? So they're brewing beer and making

16:49sort of early whiskey, and then that's obviously where, you know, you can say they're a witch,

16:52but it's the women doing it. Yeah, I was just going to say, yeah, so it was a household duty

17:00to make the beer. So they would have been brewing that at home.

17:04And also, I think we, although I'm not, I can't tie them specifically to Stirling in terms of

17:09the beer witches, there were references to brewing or making of medicines. So that has

17:14been referenced in kind of witchcraft. So yeah, so yeah, that would have been, so I think that's

17:19where, you know, the women would have been, I suppose, prime suspects, where something went

17:24wrong, or somebody, you know, I suppose a bit like if we had a bad pint or a bad pie these days,

17:29you know, you go to the source. So, but yeah, obviously much more serious than that day. And

17:35I think that obviously people were looking for scapegoats, you know, when things went wrong,

17:39and unfortunately, you know, the fingers would have been pointed at the women then.

17:45And you mentioned a pie there. In the past, the council had a special pie they handed out

17:50to officials to prove they attended a council meeting, which sounds like a great reason to go

17:54to a council meeting. So what do we know about that? Strictly speaking, this is the guildry,

17:58kind of one of the predecessor bodies for the council. So when they've been meeting for nearly

18:05900 years, it's basically one of the oldest institutions in Scotland, after the crown and

18:12the church. But the symbol of the trade, the trade guild is a backwards four, symbolising

18:18trade with the Baltic, picking up on Leslie's point about spices and ambers and timber,

18:24and all sorts of things. So in order to prove that you attended it, you got a wee pie with a

18:29backwards four baked on it. And you gave that to your wife to prove that you were at your meeting,

18:34because again, it's mostly men attending these things and running what's going on. So

18:41there are currently no backwards four pies available in Stirling Council. But we do think

18:46it might be a good idea to bring them back just to show people were there, or to sell them. Who

18:52knows? Maybe there's, are there backwards four pies at the festival, Leslie?

18:59I know, maybe I'll need to get out baking before the weekend.

19:03Yeah, so do you want to tell us a little bit about what's happening

19:06just this weekend? You've got your food and drink festival coming up.

19:10Yeah, so as part of the celebrations for Stirling's 900, we're having a food festival in Stirling

19:17on Saturday, the 24th of August from 10 till five. It's going to be outside the engine shed,

19:23which is right next to Stirling train station, so very easy to get to. We're going to have over 50

19:28food and drink stalls, chef demos, lots of things for the kids to do as well. And the big part of

19:34it is about getting people to support local. I think that's one of the big messages from our

19:38food and drink network, is that we want people to support local. We were given funding from

19:43Scotland Food and Drink to create the films, and we've been given funding from

19:47Forth Valley and Lowman's Leader to help with our food festival. And we really want,

19:51obviously, to get people out there. We have seen an upsurge certainly since COVID,

19:55but people wanting to use and buy more local foods as well. So it's really a big showcase

20:02this weekend of our local food and drink suppliers. And one of the, so obviously there's a lot about

20:09history and the videos, but one of the more modern day people you talked to is Upper Bulliard Farm,

20:16and they talk about biodiversity and crop rotation and not using pesticides.

20:20Is that something that's quite common in farming around about Stirling,

20:24or do you think they're sort of leading the way on that?

20:28I think there's certainly a movement towards smaller scale farming in some parts. And I think

20:34that also, and about connecting people with the land as well. So a lot of it is about

20:40connecting to communities, so people can buy direct from the farm, you can become

20:44a member of their, oh, I'll try and say that again. So yeah, you can become part of the farm

20:53community at Upper Bulliard, so you can buy a membership, and that way you can get like a

20:57vegetable box. And because you buy a share in the farm rather than a set box, so you share in the

21:03harvest. So at certain times of year, you may get more, sometimes you may get a little bit less.

21:07I think one of the most inspiring things we've seen, though, is the collaborations that take

21:10place between local food and drink producers. So for example, last summer, Upper Bulliard had a

21:17huge amount of green tomatoes, which they weren't able to sell on. So they collaborated with another

21:24local farm, a foreign farm, who then have turned those into small batch salsa. So which was amazing

21:31and tasted really great. So I think that they are kind of leading the way in terms of reducing food

21:36waste, and making people eat more seasonally as well, and also reducing their food miles.

21:44Yeah, and I think just more and more people are getting into that these days,

21:46aren't they? Just because we all know we need to do our part, and it all tastes so much better.

21:51Yeah, definitely. I mean, my kids can be a little bit picky sometimes, but that

21:56jar of green tomato salsa disappeared in about a day. So I definitely think it tastes a lot better

22:04than anything you could buy in a supermarket. And one of the other things that was talked

22:11about in the films was the sterling jug. I don't know if you want to give us a quick

22:16explainer on that. In the medieval periods, the weights and measures around Scotland are broken

22:23up, and boroughs have specific responsibility for certain things. So this is the jug, the kind of

22:29formal measurement in Scotland. So that, you know, if you buy a pint of beer, you're not being

22:36shortchanged, because you know what a pint looks like. And if you wanted to measure it, you go to

22:40sterling, and you get a formal copy made. So other places have the weights, other people have the yards

22:47for like the eel for linen. So the jug is our measurement to kind of make sure if anybody wants to

22:57ensure they know what a jug looks like, they come to sterling, they get a copy made, that goes

23:02back. So this is in the Smith Museum and Art Gallery, along with the world's oldest football

23:10and the world's oldest curling stone. So you know, lots and lots of things, along with lots of other

23:16things from Stirling's history. It's a great wee day with a lovely cafe, actually.

23:25That sounds great. It sounds like everyone was eating and drinking really well in the past too.

23:31Yeah, I mean, I think the jug, I mean, I actually got to hold the jug, which was amazing. It was

23:36such a heavy object to hold. I mean, it's unbelievable. And it's much bigger than your

23:40standard pint measure today, it's about three times the size. And it was made of bronze,

23:44so the fact that it hadn't been melted down and made into something else is pretty incredible

23:48that we have this object that's over 500 years old in the museum. So yeah, it's well worth going

23:54down to have a look, like Murray said, you know, and I think that, you know, like you said, it

23:58wouldn't just be in the measure for Stirling, it would have been a measure for Scotland. It was

24:01also known as the Scots pint. So yeah, I don't think anybody would very easily drink out of it,

24:06though. I was going to say, of course. Of course, it's a Scots pint if it's three pints.

24:12Yeah, yeah, it's very, very heavy. And that was with nothing, nothing inside it.

24:20Nice. And so for anyone who wants to watch the films, where can they see them? And anyone who

24:25doesn't already have tickets for, or I don't know if you need tickets for the festival, do you?

24:29What's the taste of hills?

24:31No, the festival is free to attend. And it's going to be on from 10 to five on Saturday,

24:35the 24th. Pop along. I'll also be there giving away free goodie bags. So if that's not a big

24:41enough incentive to come down, then hopefully, hopefully that will attract some more people in.

24:48What was the other thing you asked me? I've forgotten.

24:49The films.

24:52Yeah, the films can be viewed on the Force Valley Food and Drink Facebook page. And they're also

24:57on our YouTube channel. And so they will all be published by this weekend.

25:03And so can you tell us a bit about the smallest whisky distillery?

25:07I suppose once we started this process, we did a lot of research,

25:10and lots of things came up and we had to kind of narrow it down to what we could fit in.

25:15And one of the other things we've got in there as well is Scotland's smallest whisky distillery.

25:19So we started distilling whisky again in Stirling for the first time just in hundreds of years,

25:24actually. And it's a very small distillery only producing about 20,000 litres of whisky a year.

25:31So yeah, I think that we've got a fair few claims to fame, I think, in this area. So I would really

25:37encourage people to, you know, get into YouTube or go into our Facebook page and have a wee watch.

25:42There are nice little, easily digestible chunks of film, you know, so they're

25:48and there's four in the series, and it's called Force Valley Food Tales.

25:53Well, thank you very much. And it's been really, really interesting. And yeah,

25:56I would recommend everyone watch the films. And like you say, they're digestible. So don't feel

26:01like you're going to be sitting watching like an hour and a half thing on YouTube.

26:04But yeah, thank you very much. It's been great. And I'll need to come along and visit Stirling soon.

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