Saawan Kumar Tak was a renowned producer and director in Hindi cinema. Initially aspiring to be an actor, he started as a producer and gained fame with his debut film, Naunihal. In a special conversation with Lehren, Saawan Kumar reflected on his career, his work with new actors, and his setbacks. Relive these moments with Lehren’s flashback podcast.
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00:00Mostly the film makers have their own kids and they have their own pre-publicity.
00:03Like, this is someone's daughter, this is someone's son, this is someone's brother.
00:06So they look like stars to people.
00:08And I want to work with Hrithik or Shah Rukh Khan or Sunny Deol or Bobby Deol.
00:14But if I approach them with the idea, they love the idea but then they don't have the dates.
00:18So by the time I get their dates, the idea becomes still.
00:21I'm a human being, I'm bound to make mistakes.
00:23I'm not a God that if my every film hits, then I'll become God.
00:30I came here to become a hero, but at that time, it was a dream to take on a new artist.
00:41It was impossible.
00:42No one gave me a chance.
00:44There were big stars at that time.
00:46Raj Kapoor, Dilip Kumar, Dev, Sunil, Jatji, Dharmendra.
00:51All of them were big stars.
00:52So who would ask a person like me?
00:55And even today, the chances are not easy.
00:58But still, people have the courage to work with new people.
01:01Mostly, film makers have their own kids.
01:03They have their own pre-publicity.
01:05This is someone's daughter, this is someone's son, this is someone's brother.
01:09So they look like stars to people.
01:11So that is one reason.
01:13And secondly, if someone is talented, whether it's a boy or a girl, people have the courage.
01:18I have given many people a chance.
01:20Because no one gave me a chance, I gave many people a chance.
01:23And by the grace of God, those who were given a chance, they were reasonably successful.
01:27And some of them were very, very successful.
01:29Like, first break, I gave to Sanjeev Kumar.
01:33I had made a film, Nonihal.
01:35That film did not go so well.
01:36He got a lot of awards.
01:37He also got a national award.
01:38But Sanjeev Kumar was a great actor out of that film.
01:41Then I gave a chance to Anil Kapoor in Laila.
01:45So Anil Kapoor is doing fantastic.
01:48And he is a good actor as well.
01:50Handsome guy.
01:51I always liked Anil Kapoor.
01:53So I gave a chance to Neetu Singh, Padmini Kolhapuri, Sadhika Simran, Chandni and Kanchan Sanam Bewafa.
02:01So I gave a chance to many people.
02:03Many music directors, many photographers, the ace cameraman Manmohan Singh, Harmeet Singh.
02:07They were all, they started with me only.
02:10And I also gave a chance to a new music director, Mahesh Kishore.
02:14He was Usha ji's assistant.
02:16So I gave a chance to many people.
02:18I also gave a chance to writers.
02:20There is a plus point in every film of yours.
02:24How much do you jail your music director?
02:27You see, because I write a song, I don't write a song.
02:32I write the scene into a song.
02:35So that is why generally my songs are a hit.
02:38If there is a song, a story, they are saying something, something is happening.
02:43So that song will not appeal to you.
02:46If the song is a part of the story, the scene is the story, which takes the story forward,
02:50then the song feels very good.
02:52So I try in my own film, or I write for someone outside, in friendship,
02:57that the song should take the picture forward.
02:59It must be telling the story.
03:01It should not feel that if the song is removed, it does not make any difference.
03:04If the song is removed, then the film should make a difference.
03:06Such a song should be written.
03:08So I always try and bring the situation like this,
03:12that it should be a part of the story,
03:14that it should take the story forward.
03:16This is what I take care of my songs.
03:18Sir, like you said, I came here to become a hero.
03:22So now you produce and direct the film.
03:24So don't you feel that I should also act now?
03:28No, what happened, I thought about it many times.
03:30When I came new, I could not become a hero.
03:33Then I said, I can't go back.
03:35As somebody has said, I burnt all the bridges behind.
03:38So all the ways to go were closed.
03:41So I thought, let me start from the top.
03:43If it has not started from the bottom,
03:45then I thought that I should make a film.
03:48And I had a lot of struggle in those days.
03:51But one of my relations came forward and helped me financially.
03:54So I made that film.
03:56Then I never looked back.
03:58Then I continued.
04:00God has been kind enough to help me and push me.
04:03I have seen success.
04:05I made hits, super hits, flops also.
04:08I have achieved what I wanted to.
04:11In which film did you get recognized?
04:14How did I get recognized?
04:16The first film, Nau Nihal, was highly publicized by media.
04:22Because it was again a different film.
04:24It was based on Pandit Nehru and a child.
04:27So it was very different.
04:29And there was a song, which is still very famous.
04:31Listen to my voice, listen to the secret of love.
04:33I had kept a flower on my chest.
04:35I had kept you in my heart.
04:37That song made that film very popular.
04:40And the film also had some different message.
04:43Though it didn't do commercially well.
04:45At that time, even I didn't understand cinema that much.
04:47And I was only the producer of that film.
04:49The director was someone else.
04:51So I didn't know much about cinema.
04:53And what people will like, what people didn't like.
04:57So gradually I have also learned everything.
05:00But still that film was very good.
05:03Memorable film.
05:06Which film gave you job satisfaction?
05:09This is an unending process.
05:10So long you are working, I don't think you are satisfied.
05:12And till you are not satisfied, you will keep on working.
05:15Maybe tomorrow you are satisfied.
05:16That day you will think, no, nothing.
05:18There is nothing that I can do.
05:21So keep doing.
05:22But I enjoyed filmmaking.
05:23Like Sajan Bina Sohagan, Sautan, Sanam Bewafa, Sautan Ki Beti, Pyaar Ki Jeet.
05:29They were quite good films.
05:30Khalnaika, it was a very nice film.
05:32But few films, you know, something went wrong.
05:35Because this period has changed a lot.
05:37In thinking, in films, in making, technically.
05:42So now I am trying to cope up with the new techniques.
05:46New style of talking, new style of saying.
05:49But still, you know, nothing old is old.
05:52The great thing is this, that, like Usha Khanna.
05:57She is a very great music director according to me.
06:00I have worked with her in 8-9 films.
06:02Music of 8-9 films is super duper hit.
06:05Whenever she gave music.
06:07So satisfaction, Sajan Bina Sohagan gave me great satisfaction.
06:10Even Sautan gave me a great satisfaction.
06:12Even Sanam Bewafa gave a great satisfaction.
06:16Satisfaction comes when your picture is accepted by people.
06:19They are the final judge.
06:21They please you, they displease you.
06:24If they like something, you also feel wonderful in your heart and mind.
06:28If they don't like something, then they are somewhere hurt.
06:31They didn't like your idea.
06:33So if they have liked your idea, that means your work is done.
06:37You achieved what you wanted to say to them.
06:40You succeeded in doing this.
06:42Every film of yours has been romantic.
06:45Are you a romantic producer-director for this?
06:49No, there is no qualification of a romantic producer-director.
06:53But how can a film be made without romance?
06:56What we see in the movies.
06:58Any great film like Sholay, you can take.
07:00It is all about romance.
07:01Even Mother India you can take.
07:02You can take Mughal-e-Azam.
07:04So without romance, there is no life.
07:07It is love.
07:09But love has a lot of shades.
07:11There are a lot of positive shades in love.
07:14And still those shades are not explored in the movies.
07:17All the shades.
07:18Because every different human being experiences different thing.
07:22And different colors.
07:24So it all depends.
07:25What shade of love you want to show.
07:27It could be vulgar.
07:28It could be the most beautiful.
07:29It could be the most wonderful.
07:31Depends.
07:32Love is an unending process.
07:33And without love, there is nothing you can do in this world.
07:38Which star did you enjoy working with the most?
07:41He was according to you.
07:45You see, I really enjoyed working with the seniors.
07:48Like Nootan, Meena Kumari.
07:50They were really institutes.
07:53And I worked with all top heroes like Sridevi, Rekha.
07:55I did 5 films with her.
07:57Then I worked with other like Padmini, Tina Manim.
08:02They were all wonderful.
08:04Rajesh Khanna, Anil Kapoor.
08:06I did films with them.
08:07I am really happy with them working.
08:09But the point is this, today the actor has become extremely busy.
08:15This is a different chapter has started in film industry.
08:21Suppose I want to make a story which is fresh today.
08:24And I want to work with Hrithik, Shah Rukh Khan, Sunny Deol or Bobby Deol.
08:29But if I approach them with the idea, they love the idea.
08:32But then they don't have the dates.
08:34So by the time I get the dates, the idea becomes still.
08:39If the vegetable is cooked, cook it and eat it.
08:43Otherwise it will rot.
08:45You can keep it in the fridge for 2-3 days.
08:47So this is the whole problem today.
08:50And if you don't...
08:51After a year, I will find the idea stale.
08:55The idea which is fresh and inspiring today.
08:57After 1-1.5 years, the idea becomes old.
09:00Then everyone starts feeling, think of something else.
09:03This is done.
09:05So this is a big problem.
09:07When you want to do something immediately, you can't do it.
09:11And to wait for the artist's date for 1-1.5 years.
09:14It's such a problem for a maker.
09:19In many of your films, there is a story.
09:21But the film doesn't work.
09:23Even if you have a good star cast and all.
09:25Why is that?
09:26Something or the other will go wrong.
09:28I am a human being. I am bound to make mistakes.
09:31I am not a god that if my film hits, I will become a god.
09:35There should be a few flops so that people feel...
09:38I should feel myself that something is going wrong with you.
09:41So I better correct, better learn, better see what went wrong with me.
09:44So there is nothing wrong in this.
09:46It's a film which flops. It's not the maker who flops.
09:49If he keeps on making, he will make another hit.
09:52You make sometimes great films.
09:54They don't run, like Mera Naam Joker.
09:57We all actors, producers unite. We cannot make Joker.
10:00We cannot assemble the kind of star cast in that film Mr. Raj Kapoor has gathered.
10:05So it didn't work at that time.
10:07They say the film is very good, but why didn't it work?
10:10It didn't work at that time because people could not understand that film.
10:14After that people started appreciating it.
10:17Now the film has become epic.
10:19Everybody is keeping it in their library.
10:21It's such a good film.
10:23So it happens sometimes.
10:25Bobby was just a non-star cast film which broke so many records.
10:28So this happens. You know, you can't help it.
10:31Like your film Sanam Bewafa.
10:33People still remember it.
10:35They still remember Sautan.
10:37When did you get such stories?
10:39You don't get such stories again.
10:41People who made Sholay couldn't make it again.
10:44So it happens.
10:46You shouldn't compare that film.
10:48It is not possible.
10:50Which heroine do you like to work with?
10:53I don't mind. It depends on the script.
10:56Who suits whom.
10:59If it is anybody, I don't mind.
11:01Without talented people.
11:03Nowadays artists have become very smart.
11:05They are very capable of doing.
11:07Now they know how to wear clothes, makeup, dressing.
11:10Earlier it used to depend on others.
11:12So they are quite sensible and quite capable of doing things.
11:16The problem is that there are no dates.
11:19This is the big problem.