• 2 months ago
Green Tiger executives on Times roundtable

The Manila Times' columnist Ben Kritz interviews Carlos Korten and John Knorring, co-founders of Green Tiger Markets Pte. Ltd. during a roundtable at The Manila Times on Aug. 12, 2024. Korten is the company's president and Knorring is CEO.

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Transcript
00:00Hey, good afternoon, I'm Ben Kritz and I'm here with the brains behind Green Tiger Markets,
00:11John Noring and Carlos Korten.
00:15Thanks for coming in.
00:16It's good to see you guys again.
00:18As a little background, I first met John and Carlos about four years ago, right?
00:25About four years ago, when they were beginning the journey to develop the electricity forwards
00:32market platform that's available here in the Philippines.
00:37And I understand you guys are meeting with all kinds of success and have had some new
00:44developments now.
00:45So how's it going?
00:49First of all, thanks so much for having us.
00:53We really do appreciate it.
00:54It's great to see you again in person.
00:56I remember our first meeting back in February of 2020 in these offices.
01:00Little did we know that the world was going to change shortly after that.
01:05Yeah, I mean, Carlos and I were basically the last flight out of here.
01:08And we came away with a really high level of optimism about the Philippines and just
01:15the growth story.
01:19People were great.
01:20This is a market where, hey, they can really benefit from some of the skills that basically
01:24Carlos and I had picked up in our professions earlier.
01:27And of course, the pandemic hit.
01:31And for the first four or five months, from March of 2020 onwards, Carlos and I, we learned
01:38how to Zoom and we were writing user stories and doing wireframes for the platform to get
01:48it up.
01:50Real quick, the Green Tiger Markets is a platform where both generators of electricity and consumers
01:57of electricity can go to hedge or lock in the price either that they're going to pay
02:01or receive for power in the forward market.
02:05And so this is a concept that is widely accepted in the US.
02:12We have got lots of these markets.
02:16We saw, hey, there was an opportunity here in the Philippines to basically bring some
02:20of that technology and some of that expertise to help support the electricity market here.
02:26And Ben, you know this as well as anyone, but the Philippines has every kind of energy
02:31technology.
02:32It's hydro, it's solar, there's coal, there's natural gas, there's wind, there's biomass.
02:38And they all have different economics.
02:40And they all have different price exposure to risk.
02:43The spot market, the Western spot market, is very volatile in terms of prices.
02:47And any company that's exposed to the price, either if they're selling to the spot market
02:52or if they're buying from the spot market, they're just going to take whatever the price
02:56happens to be.
02:57And that results in wild fluctuations in price, which results in things like price shock.
03:06And consumers will feel price shock.
03:10And that is part of what makes our platform so timely for the Philippines, is you can
03:16put financial hedges in place against spot prices in wholesale electricity and lock in
03:23for a forward term for a year, a month, many years, and lock in a price that is fair and
03:30even, and then know that that is guaranteed.
03:34A lot of the wildness in the spot market is insulated.
03:39Yeah.
03:40Okay.
03:41Let's back up a second here, because I get this question all the time, every time I mention
03:48this.
03:49So, as simply as we can explain it, exactly what are suppliers and buyers of electricity
04:02doing in a forwards market?
04:04What exactly does that mean?
04:06Yeah.
04:07So, if you are a supplier or a generator, you have power to deliver to the market.
04:15And so, if the market price is very high, you benefit.
04:20And if it's low, you benefit a lot less.
04:24And so, the generator or the supplier is generally a seller into the market.
04:29And that way, they can lock in today, they can get a guaranteed price for their supply.
04:36Now, on the flip side, the consumers, they are exposed where, hey, if the spot market
04:43is very high, they get a problem, it costs them a lot more for their power.
04:49And if the spot market is very low, that's a big benefit.
04:52We saw prices during the pandemic in March, April, May, sometimes the power is free.
05:01And even there were some hours where it was negative price, where they were paying you
05:07to take the electricity.
05:12But very simply, a consumer, hey, they're going into the forward market, and they're
05:16looking to hedge by buying.
05:20And a supplier is going into the forward market and looking to sell.
05:25And important is that sellers, what they worry about every night when they go to bed is that
05:31the price will drop or go negative.
05:34And buyers are really worried that it's going to peak.
05:39And so, our contracts are designed so that buyers and sellers can mutually agree on a
05:44price and indemnify each other against the volatility.
05:49So, if John's a generator and I'm a buyer, we can agree that, hey, for 10 megawatts,
05:56you're going to protect me against spikes, and I'm going to protect you against a drop.
06:01Right.
06:02Now, this by itself, you know, the forwards trade, does it really necessarily reduce the
06:11power rates that we all pay?
06:14But how does it help for consumers?
06:18Yeah, so it doesn't necessarily today reduce the price that you see on your bill.
06:25However, what it does do is it makes it easier for both generators and consumers to lock
06:34in a price so that they have certainty.
06:37And if you're thinking about, hey, I've got this really volatile cash flow or stock or
06:45asset, hey, sometimes it's really good, sometimes it's really bad.
06:48Or I've got this other one that just it's the same amount every single day, that consistent
06:54same amount every day, asset or power plant or stock, whatever it is, is a lot more valuable
07:00than the one that's bouncing around a lot.
07:03And so, that certainty and that kind of guarantee of those straight cash flows makes it so that
07:11the market as a whole has to charge less of a risk premium into the price.
07:17So, there's a big portion of the Wesson price right now that we refer to as risk premium.
07:24And that's because, hey, it might be high, it might be low, I need to, if I'm a generator,
07:28I need to get kind of a little extra compensated because it's really volatile.
07:32And the same as, you know, and basically that gets passed through to the consumer.
07:38And so, over time, because less risk premium is demanded by the generators, the price will
07:47tend to drift lower.
07:48But in the meantime, that idea of, hey, if you're locking in a price and it's the same
07:54price that you're paying every month versus, you know, what we saw this year, the first
07:58three months of the year were very, very cheap, then the next three months were very, very
08:03expensive.
08:04So, there's a big difference in weather and rain, but, you know, if you're a consumer
08:10and you say, oh, man, my price was, you know, seven pesos in January, February, March, and
08:16then April you wake up and it's 11 pesos, that's a problem.
08:22But that comes from the fact that basically the DUs and the ECs aren't hedging enough.
08:28They aren't spreading that risk and locking in today.
08:34Well, okay.
08:35Here's an example, I guess, that people could actually relate to because this has been in
08:41the news, you know, fairly recently.
08:44But Moralco's rates where they ran into the problem with the fuel got so much more expensive
08:51because of the Ukraine war.
08:54So, I was telling you yesterday when we spoke, if you look at their applications for power
09:00supply agreements, you know, they actually, in their calculations, they actually calculate,
09:06well, here's some slack, you know, in case the price goes up or down a lot.
09:15And so, with the forwards market, they no longer have to add that part in their calculations,
09:23which instantly becomes that disappearing off of our bills.
09:28In the supply chain, it really helps if there's certainty.
09:32And the economics are locked in and smooth.
09:35Even if electricity is going to get more expensive just because the economy's growing and there's
09:40more demand, that can be done in a smooth, over-time manner as opposed to volatile and
09:45spiky.
09:48And to the positive, if there's a lot of new generation that comes in that would drive
09:51prices down on a forward, that would also be smoothed out, but you would be able to
09:56see it in a gradual kind of over-time.
10:00And one of the points of a forward market is we have price signals to say, oh, there's
10:05a trade that just happened for 2026 electricity, and it was at a certain price point.
10:11And then we make that price available to the market so that everyone knows, hey, electricity
10:15just traded in 2026 at this price, and that becomes an indicator for investors who may
10:21be looking to buy generation or electricity cooperatives that are trying to lock in their
10:25supply for future years.
10:28Where is the price of electricity on a forward basis so that they can be more planful and
10:33more efficient in their capital utilization?
10:37If you can share, I know some of this is probably confidential information, but how much have
10:48you guys grown?
10:50How many customers have you got?
10:51How many deals have you got?
10:53Now, I understand you've also just recently had a kind of a noteworthy one, so if you
10:59guys want to talk about that a little bit, too.
11:01Yeah, sure.
11:02So on the client front, we're signing clients up kind of every week right now.
11:08The measure that we like to look at is, okay, if you're a generator and you signed up and
11:15you've got 2,000 megawatts of generation, we put that on the generator side, and if
11:20you're a consumer and you're a res and you've got 1,000 megawatts or whatever it is, we
11:26sort of add that up, and I think we're up to about 14,000 or 15,000 megawatts of generation
11:34that has signed up out of, call it 25,000 to 28,000 nameplate installed capacities.
11:41Right, so about 28,000, yeah.
11:44So roughly half of the generation stack has signed up, and we're running about a third
11:49on the consumption side.
11:51So yeah, so if you add up all the consumers that are generally on the buy side, yeah,
11:57it works out to about a third of the consumption stack here, which is really exciting.
12:03I mean, it's been a challenge.
12:06Obviously, we started during the pandemic, and sort of getting the ball rolling took
12:10some time, but we did our first transaction early last year, and it just seems like it's,
12:20I grew up in Chicago, so to say that it's snowballing, yeah, so maybe not appropriate,
12:27but yeah, it's picking up steam, and I'm glad you brought up the significant transaction,
12:34so it was really exciting.
12:36On Friday, one of the innovations that we came up with during the pandemic, as we saw
12:42the push from the Philippines government to add more RE to the mix, was the contracts
12:51that were available for the solar generators didn't match the risk that they had.
12:59So most of the contracts were a baseload or a 24-7 contract, so if you're a solar generator
13:08and you sold one of these baseload contracts, you had to deliver power every hour, but your
13:15generating facility only produced it basically between the hours of 8 a.m. and 4 p.m., so
13:20there was a lot of extra risk that the generators were actually taking on by hedging that way.
13:27So what we did was we said, hey, there's a solution here, which is, one, what if the
13:33contracts only referenced 8 a.m. to 4 p.m.?
13:37Now, that's great for the solar generators, but a market can only function if there's
13:43both a buyer and a seller.
13:45Well, it turns out that no surprise during the middle of the day is the peak demand,
13:51so we've seen a lot of these retail electricity suppliers that come in and say, hey, I need
13:56to buy power from the middle of the day.
14:00People are flipping on their air conditionings, the elevators are running, all kinds of different
14:04uses for the electricity.
14:07So they've got the buy exposure, and the solar guys have the sell exposure, and so we created
14:14this product with that in mind, and actually we just executed our first transaction on
14:20Friday.
14:21So we had a generator sell all of 2025, so every month of 2025 from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m.,
14:30and then on the buy side, we had a retail electricity supplier.
14:33So they both locked in their price today for power for the next, starting in January, for
14:40the next 12 months.
14:41I think the important innovation here is these contracts that John's describing, the base
14:46load contract exists in the U.S. market, and exists in Japan, and exists in Europe,
14:51and now on our platform exists in the Philippines.
14:54What's new is the construct that John was describing, the 8 a.m. to 4 p.m., which is
14:59uniquely suitable for solar and renewable energy, and that's something that when we
15:04look around the world in terms of innovation, that structure hasn't been brought to market
15:09before.
15:10So the trade that happened late last week was the first time the midday power sold as
15:16a standalone product.
15:17So not only the first here in the Philippines, but possibly the first in the world.
15:23So far as we know.
15:24Yeah.
15:25So far as we know, it's the first midday contract.
15:28And the importance of that is, of course, the solar electricity is generally much cheaper
15:37than produced.
15:38And there's going to be a lot of it.
15:41Produced by coal plant, and especially at that time of the day when demand is high,
15:45because, of course, that makes the price go up.
15:47So now at the time of the day when power would ordinarily be more expensive, the retail electric
15:56supplier has now gotten a good deal on it.
15:59Yes.
16:00So that their customers will benefit from lower rates that way.
16:04That's right.
16:05And so it turns out that in terms of the price that actually transacted, it's about 10 percent
16:10cheaper than we're seeing for the around-the-clock power strip.
16:16So the retail electricity supplier during his peak demand is getting power cheaper than
16:24kind of the average price of the day.
16:27So now we've got a seller because he wants to lock it in and guarantee his cash flows
16:33for next year.
16:34Right.
16:35So he wants to go and move on and build another utility-scale solar farm.
16:42But basically the only way that he can do that is if he basically can hedge his project.
16:48So both parties seem to be very pleased with the end result, even though the price was
16:56a little bit lower for the generator.
16:58Right.
16:59But you kind of hinted at another, they want to build some more.
17:03That's right.
17:05This is a signal to other investors that government wants to add more renewable energy and sell
17:09off their capacity in the green energy market or the auction that they have that they only
17:16sold about 30 percent of the last time.
17:19But now an investor that's interested can look at it and say, ah, OK, I can do this
17:24and I know that I will get a consistent price for an extended period of time.
17:30So now it's worth it.
17:33That's an important point.
17:34There are a lot of solar developers that are looking to secure their financing to put utility-scale
17:39solar in place.
17:40And one of the things that the underwriters really need is certainty in future revenues.
17:45That's always been the challenge, especially for solar, I think, is that they can't get
17:50financing unless they're going to have guaranteed revenue and they can't guarantee the revenue
17:57unless they build the thing.
17:58So that's right.
17:59They're stuck between a rock and a hard place.
18:01It's a big chicken-and-egg problem, but it is solvable.
18:08If you look at electricity markets, either in the U.S. or Europe or Australia, they provide
18:13that price signal to the market.
18:15And right now, the Philippines is flashing, I guess, green, saying, hey, the price is
18:20really good here.
18:22And we like to sort of use the example that if the price is high, that sends a signal
18:29to the market that, hey, you should produce more of this good.
18:33And if the price is low, it sends a signal to the market that you should consume more
18:37of this good.
18:38But if you don't know what the price is, how do you make a decision on to produce more
18:43or consume more?
18:44And so now that there's an actual market-traded price for this power, it's sending a signal
18:50all over the world right now saying, and trust me, we're telling people all around that,
18:55hey, here's the price that it's transacting.
18:58And solar developers around the world are eyeing the Philippines now.
19:04And it's probably a good moment for the country because there's other places like the U.S.
19:10and Australia where the environment is a little bit tricky for investors, or they're becoming
19:17not so favorable.
19:20What kind of, two questions.
19:25First of all, how hard was it to get that first trade?
19:31It was easy.
19:33I know you've told me this story, but just to give people a taste of how things work
19:42here, how difficult was it to get the first buyer and seller to jump?
19:49And what other kind of challenges have you guys encountered as far as pushback from regulators
19:58or skepticism within the industry?
20:03Because I know it's been four years, and I know it's not been an easy road the whole
20:09time.
20:10Yeah.
20:11I mean, the pandemic obviously was a challenge.
20:13We weren't able to come over here and be here in person.
20:16And I would say that single factor was probably the most important to going from zero to one,
20:23was being able to come here in person to meet the clients.
20:27Yeah, Zoom's great.
20:30Once you've had a few in-person meetings, hey, Zoom's all you need.
20:33So you can avoid the traffic situation.
20:38But we came over in January of 23, and it took a couple months for a few of the players
20:47to get organized, say, OK, we really want to do this.
20:51And so we had our first client sign up in March, I believe, of last year.
20:57And then we had two or three more come in over the next few months.
21:02They were all sellers.
21:04And then we had a client sign up as a buyer.
21:08And so obviously, in a market, you need a buyer and a seller.
21:10If you just have sellers, it doesn't work.
21:12So it took a little while to find a buyer.
21:14But once we found that buyer, the market very quickly firmed up in terms of, hey, what was
21:21kind of the price that was going to trade?
21:24And we got the transaction done.
21:27Our first trade was August to December around the clock power.
21:31And I think the price was 5,900 pesos per megawatt hour.
21:37So 5.9 per KW.
21:41So yeah.
21:42So it was a challenge.
21:45Now a lot of it is, hey, we send documents, they send documents.
21:50We kind of go back and forth.
21:51And just the time change, it does present a challenge.
21:55So I got to get up pretty early in the morning to have a business hours meeting here.
22:00One thing that John's talking about in terms of being here in person is that trust is so
22:04important, especially for an early stage company.
22:07Nobody knows what Green Tiger Markets is.
22:09So to build those relationships in an industry, it's an established industry with established
22:14players, it really helped for us to be present and attentive and responsive.
22:22And face-to-face really helped with that in our early days.
22:26Our product in the market construct itself is novel for the Philippines.
22:31Novelty is a challenge, just in general, because it's not the way companies have operated
22:37in the past.
22:39Most of them haven't done a contract for difference in the past.
22:43They have different orientations or mindset around spot exposure and what is risk to them.
22:50And so we've spent a lot of time and we continue to spend a lot of time teaching.
22:54A lot of it is about how does commodities work and what is a financial hedge.
23:01How is that different from a PSA?
23:04And how does the legal construct work and how does settlement work and the mechanics
23:07of these contracts?
23:10Because there isn't a lot of precedent and we spend a lot of time with companies meeting
23:15with their accountants and meeting with their lawyers and talking about compliance and talking
23:20about being good citizens and things like that.
23:23And that is a process that takes a long time.
23:26But where we are now, I think we have really good relationships with the participants we
23:34have on place, which is like half the generators and about a third of the distribution.
23:40And that is paying dividends now.
23:41And what we're seeing as a proof point is for the first time this year, we have inbounds
23:47coming to us where we have independent power producers that we haven't discovered that
23:54are discovering us and saying, oh, I need replacement power.
23:58And I was shopping around and someone said, oh, you should think about Green Tiger.
24:03And then they sent an inbound to us and we're like, oh, how have we not met before this?
24:08And that's a new thing now.
24:11We use those types of proof points just as a measure of our progress.
24:16I think one of the other exciting inbounds was the electricity cooperative that called
24:21and said, hey, we heard about this Green Tiger markets.
24:24Our power prices are all over the gym.
24:28And what can you do to help?
24:31And so that is an ongoing discussion right now.
24:35But I'm confident that our products, whether it's an electricity cooperative or a DU or a
24:41res, it's the same.
24:43It's a level playing field for everybody.
24:45So to allow the ECs access to this hedging market, we believe is really important for
24:56the growth and stability of the electricity market here.
25:00I think we started out targeting a lot of the big players in energy.
25:05And one of the things we're doing now is reaching out to the middle market and the long tail.
25:09So smaller generators, electricity cooperatives in rural areas.
25:15And it's a very different problem for them because the big players know exactly what
25:18the price of electricity is at any given time.
25:21They have a giant phone book of companies to call and consumers.
25:26The smaller power producers don't have those types of sales resources and a marketplace
25:32like ours that gives them price transparency on a forward basis and access to lots of buyers
25:38and sellers is a real game changer for them.
25:41And then the same thing on the EC side.
25:43Some of the electricity cooperatives we're looking at take 70 or 80 percent of their
25:48power from spot unhedged.
25:50Right.
25:51And so sometimes they're paying 2,000 pesos per megawatt and sometimes it's 13 or 15.
25:56And it could be anywhere in between.
25:58And they're trying to manage that for their customers and show a fixed price.
26:04It's a very, very problematic situation for them.
26:08And for them to use our platform to lock in and say, I'm going to find someone that's
26:12going to sell me power for 5.5 per kilowatt, that's a great price.
26:17And then they know that they can offer, they'll put in their margins and then they can offer
26:23that price for the duration of their hedge.
26:27And that'll go a long way to solving price shock.
26:31That just gave me a thought.
26:36Have you had any discussions with the National Electrification Administration?
26:42Not yet.
26:43They're on our list.
26:44I'm here for another week to 10 days.
26:47That is right.
26:48Something in their wheelhouse is helping these cooperatives be a little more financially
26:54stable.
26:55And that's obviously a big part of it.
26:57I think, Ben, it's fair to say that we're discovering the best way to reach out to the
27:03industry on the generation side, on the distribution side.
27:07There are a lot of industry groups that help solar developers get financing.
27:11So we're trying to talk to them and help familiarize them with financial hedging.
27:17And then spending time with the regulators, with the DOE and with the ERC to make sure
27:23that they understand what we're doing in the market and how we can help and familiarizing
27:28them.
27:28Because they get a lot of inbound calls about us to say, you know, what are these green
27:32tiger guys doing?
27:33What has been the feedback from the DOE and the ERC?
27:41I mean, are they supportive of this?
27:45Or, you know, are they like, hey, you know, it's fine.
27:49Yeah, we're solving a lot of problems that are important for them, right?
27:52But I will say that, again, to the point that its novelty is very unsettling.
27:59And the regulators don't have an established rule book for how to handle a marketplace
28:05like ours.
28:06So they're trying to put fair guardrails in place without removing competition and without
28:14stifling the private sector.
28:16So I think from their perspective, they're doing a lot of learning.
28:20We're doing a lot of outreach to make sure that they're familiar and they have the
28:23information that they need to just to help that conversation go to go forward.
28:29But I would describe their participation as supportive.
28:34Yep.
28:35And maybe attentive is maybe the better adjective, which is they're attentive.
28:42They're maybe cautiously optimistic.
28:45But again, there's so much that's new.
28:48And as regulators, I think they're trying to find their right role.
28:52So, yeah, I mean, I think we're having very productive conversations with both the DOE
28:58and the ERC.
29:00Now, ultimately, our regulator is actually the Monetary Authority of Singapore because
29:04we are a Singapore based company and we fit into their regulatory framework just fine.
29:12And so, you know, it does sort of present a bit of a challenge when you have another
29:18regulator looking at, you know, a company that that sits under somebody else's purview.
29:24So but ultimately, you know, we were here to help bring transparency and price discovery
29:31and liquidity to the Philippines electricity market.
29:35And, yeah, we'd absolutely like to work, you know, constructively with the industry
29:41and basically all of the stakeholders because it matters.
29:44I mean, you've got some very expensive electricity here and, you know, it doesn't need to be
29:49that way.
29:50And just because the price of electricity goes down a little bit doesn't mean that the
29:53generator's profitability goes down.
29:55So that's that's one thing to keep in mind.
29:59And that goes back to that certainty argument.
30:01So if you're guaranteed a profit, you know, your your stock price is probably going to
30:07go up.
30:08So, yeah, yeah, we're we're, you know, keeping an open dialogue and an open mind.
30:15It helps with the regulators that we didn't invent these products, right?
30:20This construct exists in other markets in the world.
30:23And so we can reference the experience of the U.S. market, the Australian market, and
30:27then and then project that into the Philippines.
30:30And the Philippines is a really interesting place for these products to succeed.
30:34So and especially because prices are so high and so volatile, it's like we're exactly the
30:40right solution at the right time.
30:43So you've just you've just had your first your first trade on the on the on the new
30:50solar product.
30:50Yeah.
30:51What's what's next?
30:53What kind of things are you looking at?
30:55Yeah, well, I can add beyond that.
30:58Obviously, it's it's it's rinse and repeat on the on the products that that we've done,
31:04you know, already.
31:06And that's just kind of the beauty of the way that the technology works that, you know,
31:09to do it again is is really, really easy to do.
31:14Now, we've started discussions.
31:15So so we mentioned we've got about half of the installed capacity of the Philippines
31:21market.
31:22Now, you'll if you know anything about the fuel stack here, it's probably 60 to 70 percent
31:28coal and then anywhere from 10 to 20 percent gas.
31:32That gas is coming from Malampaya generally.
31:37And that's obviously depleting now.
31:40Yeah, for now.
31:41Exactly.
31:42But there's actually a very large and well-developed market for liquefied natural gas.
31:48And there was just the announcement between San Miguel and Aboides and Moralco on the
31:53LNG import facility that we're working with some of the generators.
32:00We're already helping them sell the products that they that they are producing, the electricity
32:06now to be able to and to hedge that exposure.
32:09And now we're turning the other direction, saying, hey, can we help you hedge your input
32:14cost or your fuel cost?
32:16And so, you know, we're optimistic that we can get our first transaction in LNG done
32:22later this year.
32:23I feel like we're we're close.
32:26And but yeah, that that's that's probably, you know, what's next.
32:32And one of the longer term projects, well, we think it's longer.
32:36We're we're ready to go today on it, but is the renewable energy certificate market.
32:41And obviously, you know, this is a market that's been in construction for about six
32:46years or so here.
32:48We've talked about this several times and I've also I've also talked to people like
32:56Wesson, you know, about the same thing.
32:58And yeah, that's that's a that's apparently a challenge for everyone.
33:04Yeah.
33:05Now, ultimately, to to to list that market and have it trade in a transparent manner
33:12that's repeatable for us, that's our core business.
33:16We actually already have built the marketplace for renewable energy certificates to trade
33:22on a renewable basis, just like we have for electricity, just like we've done for all
33:27the other metals markets that we launched before Philippines electricity.
33:30And so we've got that up and running.
33:32It's just a matter of, hey, can we get everybody to agree that this is how it's going to work?
33:38And so that's one of the projects that we're working on.
33:40It's going to take a little longer than we imagine for ourselves and Rex is the forward
33:45market.
33:46So there is a described mechanism for to trade the current vintage of Rex, not fully
33:53implemented, I'd say.
33:55But we could certainly be the market for for companies to buy and sell future vintages.
34:04Like, for example, if I'm a solar developer, I can sell 10 years worth of Rex and we use
34:11our platform as the mechanism to find the right price and to actually find a counterparty
34:16for that.
34:16So we'll see.
34:18Like John said, that is probably a long road.
34:22Yeah, well, like you said, they haven't quite figured out the they haven't quite figured
34:27out the current.
34:28Yeah.
34:28You know, the current edition yet, as I know from talking to the wholesale market guys,
34:35this is a conversation that if we really got into it, there would be one or two government
34:40agencies that, you know, might look bad.
34:43So maybe we won't get into all that here.
34:47We have just we have just a couple of minutes left.
34:51But why don't you guys make a little pitch?
34:54If any electric cooperatives or, you know, RES people are, you know, listening in, how
35:02do they get in touch with you?
35:04Yeah.
35:04You know, what's what's the steps that they can take to, you know, to to look into this?
35:09Yeah.
35:09So in terms of getting in touch with us, we we obviously have a website, www.greentigermarket.com.
35:17There's there's a hey, learn more on the website.
35:24But yeah, when it comes to an electricity cooperative or RES, you know, we've seen a
35:30lot of kind of Facebook posts of people complaining about their electricity cooperatives that
35:36their their electric bill more than doubled from February to to May.
35:42Ultimately, that's a solvable problem and it's being solved every day on Green Tiger
35:49Market.
35:49So so we'd love to have you.
35:52Don't don't hesitate to reach out over the website.
35:56And yeah, we're we we'd absolutely love to have you.
36:00Yeah, the the all of our rule books and our contracts are listed on the website.
36:06And then we also have a series of YouTube videos on how does this work?
36:12And where's the compliance framework?
36:14So there's a lot of self-study material that we mentioned.
36:18We do a lot of teaching in terms of this is a new construct.
36:22And here's what it means.
36:23And here's how it can be applied in the context of different businesses.
36:26So if there's interest, that's a that's a good resource as well.
36:32OK, well, I think we'll we'll leave it at that.
36:35John Norring, Carlos Korten from Green Tiger Markets.
36:38It's great to see you guys again.
36:41And thanks for taking a little time out to talk with us.
36:44I'm Ben Kritz and have a good afternoon.

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