Taiwan’s Soft Power at the Paris Olympics
This interview was recorded on August 6, 2024.
Taiwan’s ambiguous political status makes it difficult for the country to participate in several international organizations and events. On the rare occasion it does participate, such as at the Olympic Games, Taiwan does so under a different name: Chinese Taipei.
On this episode of Zoom In Zoom Out, TaiwanPlus reporter Leslie Liao sits down with Taiwan’s representative to France, François Wu. Representative Wu is also the appointed deputy minister of foreign affairs. We first zoom in on Taiwan’s presence this year in the Paris Olympics, then zoom out to understand Taiwan’s strategy for cultural diplomacy.
Taiwan’s ambiguous political status makes it difficult for the country to participate in several international organizations and events. On the rare occasion it does participate, such as at the Olympic Games, Taiwan does so under a different name: Chinese Taipei.
On this episode of Zoom In Zoom Out, TaiwanPlus reporter Leslie Liao sits down with Taiwan’s representative to France, François Wu. Representative Wu is also the appointed deputy minister of foreign affairs. We first zoom in on Taiwan’s presence this year in the Paris Olympics, then zoom out to understand Taiwan’s strategy for cultural diplomacy.
Transcript
00:00Welcome to Zoom In, Zoom Out, your global look at news from Taiwan. I am Leslie Liao.
00:18We're here in Paris for the 2024 Summer Olympics, where Taiwan has sent not only 60 athletes
00:24to compete in the games, but also hundreds of performers to showcase Taiwan's soft power
00:29on the global stage. Now, to better understand how Taiwan uses culture and sports as a form
00:35of diplomacy, we are joined by Taiwanese representative to France, Francois Wu, to tell us more.
00:42He's also the incoming deputy minister of foreign affairs. Representative Wu, thank
00:47you so much for joining us today.
00:48Nice to meet you. My honor.
00:50Let's zoom in first on the Olympics. Now, we all know how hard it is for Taiwan to be
00:55on the international stage. How important is an event like the Olympics for Taiwan?
01:01As you know, Taiwan is not treated as a very normal country in the international relations.
01:10We have very great difficulty to join a lot of international organizations like the WHO,
01:18like the United Nations. So, for Taiwan, a very, very high, important priority is to
01:26let the world know that we are able to function, to act like a sovereign country. We are a
01:32sovereign country, but we need also to prove it. So, for us to be present, to be here is
01:38very important. So, we, the government, and even I think all the people of Taiwan try
01:44to do their best to join in this Olympic game and showing that Taiwan is an independent
01:53entity and also is able to function very well.
01:57You said that China is doing a lot to block Taiwan here at the Olympics, and we've seen
02:01Taiwanese fans have their signs taken away, their flags taken away. Can you tell us a
02:06little more about what else China has done to maybe stifle Taiwan here at the Olympics?
02:13I think the way that we are treated in the Olympic arena is really very, very rude and
02:21very exceptional. This time, China convinced the Olympic Committee even to put our flag
02:28in the same level as the flag of Russia, the yellow Russia, to say our flag is for the
02:35arena. It is a result of China working with the International Olympic Committee. So, a
02:43lot of this kind of thing is not easy for us, even for the cultural Olympiad. At the
02:50beginning, we signed with France it should be the House of Taiwan, the Pavilion Taiwanais.
02:57And later, when China knows that we are using the House of Taiwan, then again they are forcing
03:04the CIO and then to force the French government, I believe, to change the name from the Taiwan
03:12House to Chinese Taipei House, the Pavilion Taipei Xinhua. It's really ridiculous. Everyone
03:18knows that it's Taiwan, but just everything concerning Taiwan is forbidden. So, I think
03:24to be a Taiwanese diplomat in the world is not easy. But when we win the golden medal
03:30of badminton, I need to say it is really the medal that was the most in this Olympic game,
03:37because we are treated with such an unequal way, and we still can win the championship.
03:44This is the second year in a row where the host country of the Olympics clarified that Chinese
03:50Taipei is Taiwan. In Japan, they said Taiwan-desu, that was a big thing. And here, it was a big deal
03:57when the French media said Chinese Taipei is Taiwan. Has that ever happened before in any
04:03other place? I don't have this kind of memory that before the presenter were clarified, because
04:09already they don't know very well Taiwan. But I can say, if now looking at the media in France,
04:15of course, when you have a ranking of the medal, if you go into the official page of the CIO,
04:22Taiwan, you cannot find Taiwan. It's always Chinese Taipei. But for example, if you go to
04:27L'Equipe, it's a sportive journal of France, very famous. If you go to Le Monde, it's the most famous
04:37journal, media, newspaper of France. And they also have this page that are putting the ranking of
04:45every country in the Olympic game. And you can find it's not Chinese Taipei, it's Taiwan. The French
04:49society is really getting more and more familiar with Taiwan. And also, look at what China is doing
04:54against Taiwan, and making the world supporting Taiwan even more. That shows me there is a
05:01perception of Taiwan here in France. Yeah, yeah, getting better and better. It's a positive
05:05perception. Can you tell us? Very positive perception. This is how this has been cultivated,
05:09and what their views of Taiwan is, and how you've been cultivating that over the years.
05:14If you came here three years ago, or I mean, in the past, when a guy would say you're from Taiwan,
05:23you got a very high possibility to say, okay, you're from Thailand, or where is Taiwan? And now,
05:31not only do they know Taiwan, they also know Chinese Taipei. Chinese Taipei is much more
05:36difficult to know what means Chinese Taipei. In the long term, of course, we feel sad, we feel
05:44not really not comfortable. But if we look at this situation in another point of view,
05:51maybe China is also helping the world to know what is Taiwan. If you look at the open ceremony,
05:58the presenter even said, Chinese Taipei, it is a country as we know is Taiwan. So I think when he
06:07explained what is Chinese Taipei, he put 20 seconds to introduce Taiwan. And when it comes to
06:12China, only five seconds. Taiwan has put a lot of emphasis on the Cultural Olympiad in the coming
06:18weeks. More than 200 artists is coming. More than 200. That's more athletes, more than the
06:25athletes that we have. What kind of experience did you want to give the people who went to the
06:29Taiwan Pavilion? My belief that the force of Taiwan is diversity. Taiwan is composed by a lot
06:40of diverse culture. So I always say that Taiwan is not part of China, but China is part of Taiwan.
06:46So, of course, we have a very great, important influence from Chinese culture, but it's not
06:51only Chinese culture. We also have a strong influence from Europe, from Japan. If you look
06:57at all the history of Taiwan, in general, it is composed by the Borigen period at the very first
07:04beginning. And now, actually, we got also a lot of immigration from Southeast Asia. So for Taiwan,
07:11it's really diversely very important. And not only diversely, but also I think all the people,
07:18all the French, or even a lot of people will agree with me, that liberty, democracy. And we will
07:26see all this kind of value in this Cultural Olympiad. How has the reaction been to Taiwan
07:33at the Cultural Olympiad? I remember the first day, we just think maybe if we can have hundreds
07:40of people, it would be very good to come to see the open ceremony. And we attract more than 4,000,
07:47nearly 6,000 people is coming. And everything just is going. It's all gone. Every present is all gone.
07:54So I think our people in Taiwan are also very surprised for our performance. But to show again
08:01what I always said, that Taiwan now attracts a lot of attention of French people, of French
08:09society. And I'm very happy that it is happening now. And I think it will continue to happen
08:16in the future. So we want to zoom out really quickly, and we want to talk about cultural
08:23diplomacy, which because you're based in France and Paris, it must be a big part of your work
08:30as an ambassador here for France. Can you tell us a little bit more about what cultural diplomacy is?
08:36Cultural diplomacy is to let people love our country by, not to be forced,
08:47but really by their own interest, by their own feeling, especially their feeling. I think it's
08:53very interesting to observe that the culture from Taiwan really attracts the love of a lot
09:00of French people. And we also have a Taiwanese cultural center here in the embassy. So they are
09:06doing a great work. So for example, just a few months ago, we were even invited for the
09:12Festival of Avignon, a very important event. Almost all the Avignon city, they support Taiwan very much.
09:20Another event in another city from the same thing, they invited Taiwan to present our cinema.
09:28And so I think in one month, more than 70 Taiwanese cinemas were presented in this
09:38festival. You cannot imagine, it's never happened in Taiwan to have 70 cinemas presented in the same
09:46time. And it's not free. Everyone needs to pay to enter. And also it's a great success. So I think
09:55Taiwan in the past eight years, we are very successful to put this cultural diplomacy to let
10:03France know what is Taiwan. And of course, identity, the name is also very important.
10:10Every time we insist that we need to put Taiwan, it's not Republic of China, it is Taiwan. Of course,
10:16Republic of China is our official name. But in the foreign language, to let people know better
10:24about Taiwan, it's Taiwan. How important is cultural diplomacy to Taiwan? You will be going
10:30back to be deputy foreign minister, which means you will craft the overall kind of foreign affairs
10:36strategy for Taiwan. I try also, and I think I was very successful to say that Taiwan also
10:41represent the best part of the Chinese culture. Because in Taiwan, we conserve the traditional
10:50character. We also have a national museum. All this kind of thing is one of the very best part
10:58of the Chinese culture and was very good conserve in Taiwan. And at the same time, we are also able
11:03to prove that Chinese culture can adapt very well with universal value. That the Chinese society is
11:12not condemned only to live in authoritarian system or under the Xi Jinping system. So cultural
11:21diplomacy is not only the soft side. You also have a hard part because we show an alternative
11:32of the future of the Chinese speaking society. Has cultural diplomacy, because it's kind of a
11:39soft power, it's a kinder power, has it helped us work around political blocs on the international
11:47stage? Has it been able to help us get around some of these challenges that we've been facing?
11:51I will say that the cultural diplomacy has helped us to have more friends in France and in the world.
12:02You know, one of the very important reasons that Taiwan in the past was really isolated by the
12:10international community is that we lost a lot of friends. We no longer have the possibility
12:15to have a formal discussion with the politician. Because we don't have a formal diplomatic
12:23relation. We are excluded in almost every international organization. Cultural power,
12:28cultural diplomacy, it allows that we can remake or relink our relation and become good friends.
12:38And then we can give us a chance to explain what is Taiwan and what Taiwan insists and what is
12:44the value of Taiwan. So I think it is also one of the very important key of the cultural diplomacy
12:50of Taiwan. A lot of Taiwan is probably globally most known for bubble tea. Is there any other
12:57thing that you might see that Taiwan is gaining popularity for in the cultural realm beyond just
13:02the movies and the food? Very easy, whiskey. The Taiwanese whiskey. Now it's very well known in
13:09France. French people love wine, love whiskey, and Taiwan now is able to produce a very good whiskey.
13:16The Taiwanese tea, the Taiwanese food. So I think a lot of things now more are better and better
13:23known by French people and attracting the French people to pay more attention about what Taiwan
13:32can do. It's not only now every time I'm saying that Taiwan not only produces semiconductors,
13:37it's very important for everyone. But as well as whiskey, tea, bubble tea, cinema, film.
13:45And also Taiwanese people are welcome also more in change with French people,
13:52with the French culture. Well, Representative Wu, it's been incredible talking to you about
13:58Taiwan's cultural diplomacy and how it fits into the country's overall foreign affairs scheme.
14:03Thank you so much for joining us. It's also my honor, my pleasure. Thank you so much.
14:07This has been Zoom In Zoom Out. For more stories from Taiwan and around the world,
14:10be sure to check out Taiwan Plus on our website and social media.
14:14I'm Leslie Liao. Take care and I will see you next time.
14:40Transcribed by https://otter.ai