JD Vance Outsmarts Dana Bash in Tense CNN Interview(1)
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00:00Thank you so much for doing this.
00:02I appreciate it, Senator.
00:04So, within a week of you being named on the VP ticket, the Democratic nominee changed.
00:09And you guys seem to be struggling a little bit with how to approach the new dynamic.
00:15How are you approaching your new opponent and the new ticket?
00:19Yeah.
00:20Well, I think it's pretty straightforward, actually.
00:21We're running against a set of policies that I think have failed the American people.
00:25And we're running to a set of policies, President Trump's four years in office, that I think
00:28really succeeded for the American people.
00:31And I think that what's different about it, and you're right, Dana, it is different.
00:34But what's different about it is that we're running against a different person who a lot
00:37of Americans just don't know.
00:39And so I think we have to remind people that President Trump delivered lower prices, lower
00:43inflation, a prosperous and peaceful world, and also a secure border.
00:48And Kamala Harris's policies have produced the exact opposite.
00:50Now, that was an easier case to make when Joe Biden was in there, because people associate
00:54Joe Biden with the policies.
00:55But I think Kamala Harris clearly owns the policies of the Biden-Harris administration,
01:00especially when we consider the fact that, as we've all learned over the last few months,
01:04Joe Biden clearly isn't capable of doing the job.
01:07And so I think that drives home that Kamala Harris really has been the one calling the
01:10shots.
01:11I mean, how could she not?
01:12I think Joe Biden doesn't really know where he is.
01:14Kamala Harris has been calling the shots?
01:16Says who?
01:17Well, I think she has to have been, right?
01:18Because if she's not calling the shots, Dana, then who is?
01:20And I do think it drives home something that's fundamentally dishonest about the way that
01:24Vice President Harris, and also a lot of senior Democrats, have approached this.
01:27If you remember, for months, even years, the argument was that Joe Biden was sharp, he
01:32could clearly do the job.
01:34And the minute that he performed poorly in that debate and he became political deadweight,
01:38you have Kamala Harris and everybody else trying to throw him overboard.
01:40But I think the more troubling question is, why did so many senior Democrats, including
01:45the vice president, cover for him?
01:46And if Joe Biden wasn't capable of doing the job, as even a lot of Democrats say now, was
01:51Kamala Harris in charge, or was somebody else in charge?
01:53And that's a real, real issue.
01:55There's no evidence that Kamala Harris threw him overboard.
01:57But I just, I want to move on to something that Governor Walz has called you and Donald
02:03Trump, and that is weird.
02:04Sure.
02:05And it is taken off.
02:06The New York Times reports that when Donald Trump was asked about it, he said, not me,
02:11they're talking about J.D.
02:12Well, certainly, they've levied that charge against me more than anybody else.
02:19But I think that it drives home how they're trying to distract from their own policy failures.
02:23I mean, look, this is fundamentally schoolyard bully stuff.
02:26They can accuse me of whatever they want to accuse me of.
02:29As Harry S. Truman once said, if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
02:33And I'm doing this because I think that me being vice president will help improve people's
02:36lives.
02:37So I accept their attacks.
02:39But I think that it is a little bit of projection, Dana, if you think about, you know, just take
02:44a couple of days ago, Tim Walz gives this big speech.
02:48He's been announced as the VP nominee.
02:50And I remember when I had just been announced as the VP nominee, I gave my big speech and
02:54I saw my wife and I gave her a big hug and a kiss because I love my wife.
02:57And I think that's what a normal person does.
02:59Tim Walz gave his wife a nice, firm Midwestern handshake and then tried to sort of awkwardly
03:04correct for it.
03:05So I think that what it is, is two people, Kamala Harris and Tim Walz, who aren't comfortable
03:08in their own skin because they aren't comfortable with their policy positions for the American
03:12people.
03:13And so their name calling, instead of actually telling the American people how they're going
03:16to make their lives better.
03:18I think that's weird, Dana.
03:20They can call me whatever they want to.
03:21You're saying Tim Walz doesn't have affection for his wife?
03:24I don't even understand that.
03:25I said that he acted weird, which he did, on a national stage in front of his wife and
03:30in front of millions of Americans who presumably were watching at home.
03:33And I think that it's projection, Dana.
03:35Look, I think this election should be about who's going to solve the inflation crisis,
03:39who's going to make groceries and housing more affordable, who's going to secure that
03:43southern border.
03:44Kamala Harris's record is that she supported all the policies that made that problem worse,
03:48Dana.
03:50I'm not trying to say we're going to take the country in a different direction.
03:51I really think that it's important to point this out, Dana.
03:54Their entire campaign has not been about, here's our policy for how we're going to make
03:58your life better, or here's what's wrong with Donald Trump and J.D. Vance's policies.
04:02We're going to name call and hope that you don't notice that we don't have an agenda.
04:06That is the entire Democrat approach to this election.
04:09They have done both.
04:10They have both policies, and they are trying to define it as well.
04:14No, no.
04:15If you go to Kamala Harris's campaign page right now, they still don't have a policy.
04:19Well, let's talk about policy versus-
04:20Policy positions about what they're going to do.
04:22I think that's really insulting to Americans.
04:24You started out talking about the policies in this interview, but you have been on the
04:30campaign trail questioning Tim Walz's military record.
04:34You say it was shameful that Governor Walz retired from the military before his unit
04:38deployed to Iraq.
04:39I want to read you something that Joe Ucis, who is a veteran.
04:44He served with Governor Walz, said.
04:46He said that's a lie.
04:48He said, he was as good a soldier as you'll find.
04:51I'm not trying to defend him.
04:52I hope people don't think that.
04:54What I'm trying to do is defend someone who served his country.
04:57I'm not voting for him.
04:59I'll campaign against him, but I don't think it's fair to characterize his service the
05:03way they have.
05:05Governor Walz served 24 years.
05:07He even stayed after he could have retired because of 9-11, more than the country asked
05:13of him.
05:14Do you honor his service?
05:15Well, of course, Dana.
05:16I honor his service, and I've never criticized what Tim Walz did when he was in the military.
05:23I criticized his retirement decision, and most importantly, Dana, I criticized his lying
05:29about his own record, okay?
05:31This is a guy who was captured on video saying, I carried a gun in war.
05:36He never went to war.
05:37This is a guy who's been captured on video.
05:39As other people say, he's an Afghanistan veteran.
05:42He's a veteran of a war, nodding along in agreement instead of saying, no, no, no, I
05:46did serve my country, and I did it honorably, but I never went to a war zone.
05:49I'm not criticizing Tim Walz's service.
05:52I'm criticizing the fact that he lied about his service for political gain, Dana.
05:57Now, I served in the United States Marine Corps, and you know this.
05:59And look, there are a lot of things that I'm proud about.
06:01I've never lied about what I did or overstated it because it would be beneficial to me in
06:06an election.
06:07I think that's what Tim Walz did.
06:08That's what I was criticizing.
06:09And yes, I do think it's scandalous behavior.
06:12You talked about one of the things that he said, weapons of war.
06:14He was talking in a campaign stop about, he was trying to talk about gun control.
06:19Sure.
06:20And he said, weapons of war, I carried in war.
06:22I will say that the Harris-Walz campaign did say that the governor misspoke there.
06:27Sure.
06:28Do you accept that?
06:29He misspoke.
06:30Another word is that he lied about it, and he didn't correct the record for 15 years
06:34until he was put under political pressure because I called it out, Dana.
06:39Whatever you want to call it, a misspeaking or a lie, I think Tim Walz should have to
06:43correct the record.
06:44Now, you pointed out a soldier who defended his service.
06:46There have been a number of soldiers who served with Tim Walz who have criticized him on the
06:50exact same grounds that I have because it's not right to misstate or to embellish what
06:56you've done.
06:57And I think that's what he did.
06:58And on the question of when he left the National Guard, he filed his election paperwork February
07:0610th, 2005.
07:07That was a month before the National Guard even announced that it was possible that they
07:12would deploy to Iraq, and it ended up being two months.
07:15He retired two months before they actually got the paperwork.
07:18But on CNN last night, Dana, one of the people who was actually in charge of him said they
07:22knew they were going to deploy to Iraq in February of 2004, or excuse me, fall of 2004.
07:27So he knew he was going to Iraq.
07:29He decided to quit, to retire, whatever word you want to use.
07:32Retire.
07:33Because, whatever, because he wanted to run for Congress.
07:37He lied about that.
07:38He said that when he decided to retire, he did not know that he was going to Iraq.
07:43That is another untruth, as even his senior military officer said.
07:46So again, I'm not criticizing the service.
07:49I'm criticizing the dishonesty, dishonesty spoken in favor and for the purpose of political
07:55benefit.
07:56But the most important thing here, Dana, is it goes to Kamala Harris's judgment.
08:00Tim Walz is ultimately going to be the vice president.
08:02Kamala Harris is in great health.
08:04I'm sure she's going to be president, if she wins, for four or maybe even eight years.
08:08Why did Kamala Harris choose a person who has lied about their military service?
08:13I think that is a serious lapse in judgment.
08:16And I don't want to hear from a campaign spokesperson of Kamala Harris.
08:19I want to hear Kamala Harris herself address what I just said.
08:22You know, I've seen a lot of statements from veterans, including those you serve, saying
08:27it's just untoward to be criticizing somebody who served for 24 years.
08:32Dana, I'm not interested in the ad hominem.
08:35I've heard from a lot of veterans groups who criticize Tim Walz.
08:38The question is, he said he served in war, and he didn't.
08:42That is a dishonesty.
08:43I really, I couldn't care less what one or the other person says about it.
08:47I care about what the truth is.
08:49The truth is that Tim Walz didn't tell the truth.
08:52And importantly, Dana, this is about Kamala Harris's judgment.
08:55And I think that when you ask, why has Kamala Harris allowed the border to be wide open?
09:00Why has Kamala Harris supported policies that have promoted the increase in inflation?
09:04I think it goes to the heart of her judgment.
09:07And I think that that's what we should be talking about.
09:09One last question.
09:10Donald Trump didn't serve in the military.
09:12He received a medical draft deferment for bone spurs to avoid serving in the Vietnam
09:16War, reportedly as a favor to his father.
09:19Do you find that shameful, too?
09:21I think that Donald Trump didn't serve in the military, but he didn't lie about it,
09:24Dana.
09:25I've known Donald Trump for a long time.
09:26You don't think he—
09:27He really honors our veterans.
09:28So you think he had bone spurs?
09:29He honors me for my service.
09:30Donald Trump didn't lie about serving in the military.
09:33He didn't say that he went to Vietnam when he didn't.
09:35This is the problem.
09:37I don't criticize anybody.
09:38Whether they served our country or not, I think it's honorable to serve.
09:41But obviously, a lot of people have reasons for not serving.
09:43I criticize somebody for embellishing their record, for lying, saying, I went to war.
09:48Dana, do you think that it's a problem that he said, I went to war, but he didn't actually?
09:52That seems to be a problem to me.
09:54Well, they've corrected that.
09:55Let's move on to—
09:56They've corrected it by admitting that he lied.
09:57Let's move on to another important issue to voters, and that is the issue of abortion.
10:01You wrote the foreword for a new book by Heritage Foundation President Kevin Roberts of Project
10:072025.
10:09Project 2025, among many other things, calls for rolling back approval of the abortion
10:13drug Mifepristone.
10:15Donald Trump told me during the debate that he would not block the drug.
10:20And on Thursday, when he was asked, he didn't rule it out.
10:23So which is it?
10:24Well, look, Dana, first of all, Project 2025 is not affiliated with the Trump campaign.
10:28Kevin Roberts is a friend of mine, but I wouldn't say that he speaks for the president in the
10:32same way I wouldn't say that he speaks for me.
10:33Now, what Donald Trump has said is that he respects the Supreme Court's opinion on the
10:37Mifepristone ruling.
10:39Let me just stop you right there.
10:40Please.
10:41The Supreme Court—you're a lawyer, so you know this better than I.
10:42Sure.
10:43The Supreme Court, all they did was say that what came to them didn't have standing.
10:47So they let it stand.
10:48A real question, a substantive question, hasn't made it to the Supreme Court.
10:52So my question for you is whether or not a Trump-Vance administration would allow Mifepristone
11:00to continue to be sent around the country.
11:03Well, President Trump won the nomination of the Republican Party.
11:05He said it to you, and he said it repeatedly, that his goal is not to block Mifepristone.
11:09It's to let states make the decision on abortion policy.
11:12Now, of course, that does mean, Dana—we have to be honest about this—that California
11:16might have less restrictive rules than Ohio, which might have less restrictive rules than
11:19Alabama.
11:20I think what President Trump is really trying to do on the abortion question is really admirable,
11:24and I wish that the press was a little bit more honest about it.
11:27He's saying, we've had a 50-year culture war over abortion, where unfortunately this
11:32issue has just divided the country, and he wants to provide some ground for us to come
11:37together, for states to make these decisions, for voters to make these decisions, and for
11:42us all to respect one another.
11:44That's all he's proposed.
11:45On that issue, a few months ago, on the question—his position, which you've adopted as it is up
11:50to the states, I spoke to a woman named Kate Cox.
11:54She lives in Texas.
11:56She was 20 weeks pregnant.
11:57Her fetus was diagnosed with a disease called—it was a deadly genetic condition called trisomy 18.
12:05She said that carrying the pregnancy—she was told this by her doctors—to term, if
12:10the fetus even survived, would hurt her chances for having more children, which she and her
12:14husband desperately wanted.
12:17Why is not allowing her to end that pregnancy helpful or supportive of expanding families
12:26like you want it to be?
12:27Well, first of all, Dana, my heart breaks for this woman.
12:29I don't know her personally.
12:30I've certainly heard the story, and our heart breaks for her.
12:33We want people to have healthy, happy families, and it's extremely unfortunate that sometimes,
12:37you know, medicine, the act of God, whatever happens, just doesn't work out.
12:42What the president has said, I think very clearly, is that he is not trying to prevent
12:46women who have nonviable pregnancies from getting access to the medical care that they need.
12:52But allowing the states to decide a place like Texas, which has very strict laws now,
12:59doesn't allow a Kate Cox to end a pregnancy that is fatal and could potentially hurt her
13:05ability to have more kids.
13:07But what President Trump has said is that we are going to let voters make these decisions.
13:10And again, Texas might have a view that President Trump disagrees with.
13:14They might have a view that President Trump agrees with, but you've got to let the voters
13:18make these decisions.
13:19So you're comfortable with that law in Texas?
13:21I'm not comfortable with anything, Dana, because I'm not passing judgment on what these
13:26laws should be.
13:27And you ask me my own personal view, I campaigned against an Ohio referendum.
13:32But I think that we have to let voters decide, and when they speak their mind, you have to
13:37be respectful.
13:38Agree or disagree with whatever voters decide, they're going to make these decisions.
13:43Welcome back to State of the Union.
13:45Here's more of my interview with GOP vice presidential nominee J.D. Vance.
13:51John King is doing a project talking to voters all over swing states.
13:54He talked to Republican voters in the critical swing state, must win, I would say, swing
13:59state of Pennsylvania.
14:02One of them, Carol Cardi, said she was almost a childless dog lady because she didn't happen
14:07to meet the right person until she was 40 years old.
14:11Your mother, Joan Lunden, was offended that you don't think she has a stake in the future
14:17of the country because she doesn't have children.
14:20What do you say to key voters like that, Republicans, swing voters, who are put off by your views?
14:25Well, what I would say, Dana, is if you look at what I said in context, the Karras campaign
14:31has frankly lied about what I actually said.
14:33I'm pro-family.
14:34I want us to have more families, and obviously sometimes it doesn't work out, sometimes for
14:38medical reasons, sometimes because you don't meet the right person, but the point is that
14:42our country has become anti-family in its public policy.
14:46Let me just give you an example of this.
14:48After our second child was born, my wife and I, we have three little kids, after our second
14:51child was born, we get the baby home from the hospital.
14:54We get this ridiculous, out-of-network medical bill that is financially shocking, and we're
15:00pretty well off, and that happened because we have ridiculous laws in this country that
15:05are anti-family.
15:06I've sponsored legislation to try to fix things like that so moms and dads don't get these
15:11surprise medical bills.
15:12I think it's important for us to be pro-family.
15:14That's all that I've ever said.
15:15If you want to be pro-family, I want to, because you do criticize, as you just did, the Democratic
15:19Party for being anti-family.
15:20I do.
15:21You called out Kamala Harris and Pete Buttigieg in particular.
15:25Kamala Harris has two stepchildren.
15:27Pete Buttigieg and his husband have adopted twins.
15:32Do you recognize them as parents, and more broadly, as being part of families?
15:36Well, of course I do, Dana.
15:37I mean, you know my life story.
15:38I was actually raised.
15:39I would say, of course.
15:40I would call them out by name.
15:41Dana, I was raised.
15:42By name.
15:43One of the first people that I gave a hug to, after my RNC convention speech, was my
15:47stepmom, who's been an incredibly important person in my life.
15:50So she's not childless.
15:51My kids call her Mamaw.
15:52Of course she's not childless, but again, the criticism, I certainly did not call my
15:56own stepmom childless.
15:57No, no, no.
15:58Kamala Harris.
15:59I criticized Kamala Harris for being part of a set of ideas that exists in American
16:04leadership that is anti-family.
16:06I never, Dana, criticized people for not having kids.
16:10I criticized people for being anti-child.
16:12And I do think that Kamala Harris has made some bizarre statements.
16:16She has said things like, it's reasonable not to have children over climate change.
16:20I think that's the exact opposite message we should be sending to our young families.
16:24I want to expand the child tax credit.
16:26I want to stop those surprise medical bills.
16:29I want to make housing more affordable, so that if you have a young family, you can actually
16:32afford to put them in a home.
16:33And I think that it is unfortunate that so much of our public leadership has become anti-family.
16:38One final point on this, Dana, if you go back to the COVID era, one thing that really frustrated
16:42me and motivated some of these comments is we were at a point where we were kicking kids
16:47out of school.
16:48We were masking three-year-olds and putting the masks back on them, even as they were
16:52trying to rip them off at school.
16:54I think that if we had more people who took the right perspective and had a little bit
16:59more understanding of how little kids actually operate, we would not have made so many of
17:03those mistakes during COVID.
17:04Well, that's a whole other conversation.
17:05No, it's related to this.
17:06No, because people didn't know as much because it was literally a novel virus.
17:11But Dana, you've now asked me three questions about comments that I made three years ago.
17:17I wonder what Kamala Harris thinks about the fact that she supported policies that opened
17:21the American southern border.
17:22I wonder what Kamala Harris thinks about the fact that she lied to the American people
17:26about Joe Biden's middle facility for the office.
17:30You are interviewing me, Dana, because I respect the American people enough to sit
17:33down for an interview.
17:34I appreciate that.
17:35Kamala Harris has been the nominee for three weeks.
17:37She hasn't sat down for a real interview.
17:39Believe me.
17:40We are asking.
17:41You're not going to get a disagreement there.
17:42But the point is, Dana, you've got me for 15 minutes or however long you have me.
17:45We should be talking about public policies that matter.
17:48How are we going to lower inflation?
17:50How are we going to reduce the cost of food and housing?
17:52How are we going to close down that southern border?
17:54We've talked so little about that.
17:56We've talked a lot more about a sarcastic remark I made three years ago.
17:59I think we should talk about the issues that most Americans care about.
18:01I only asked you one question about that.
18:03I asked you about policies and I was asking about the military record that you brought
18:08up.
18:09Nobody else did.
18:10Of Tim Walz.
18:11One last question.
18:12This is on policy.
18:13Please.
18:14The Federal Reserve.
18:15Yeah.
18:16Donald Trump said this week that he feels strongly that the president should have at
18:20least a say when it comes to the Federal Reserve and how to handle interest rates.
18:25Do you agree that a president should direct the Federal Reserve on how to handle interest
18:30rates?
18:31Well, not direct.
18:32That's not what he said.
18:33He said the president should have a say.
18:34But one, I absolutely agree with what he said.
18:36Right now the president doesn't have a say.
18:38Well, the president has a say in the sense that the president appoints the Federal Reserve
18:41governors.
18:42But he's saying, to be clear, President Trump is saying I think something that's really
18:44important and actually profound, which is that the political leadership of this country
18:48should have more say over the monetary policy of this country.
18:51I agree with him.
18:52That should fundamentally be a political decision.
18:54I fear disagree.
18:56We should have America's elected leaders having input about the most important decisions confronting
19:01our country.
19:02That would be a huge change, just so people understand that.
19:05It would be a huge change.
19:06But whether the country goes to war, what our interest rates are, these are important
19:10questions that American democracy should have important answers for.
19:14And I think all President Trump is saying is that, look, it's kind of weird that you
19:18have so many bureaucrats making so many important decisions.
19:21If the American people don't like our interest rate policy, they should elect somebody different
19:25to change that policy.
19:27Nothing should be above democratic debate in this country when it comes to the big questions
19:31confronting the United States.
19:32OK.
19:33One last question.
19:34Please.
19:35And I can't believe I have to ask you this, but I do, because Donald Trump has been attacking
19:39Kamala Harris's racial identity.
19:42He has not been.
19:43But ask your question.
19:44Well, he questioned her racial identity.
19:46He said a number of years ago she happened to turn black.
19:49Her father is Jamaican.
19:51Do you believe Kamala Harris is black?
19:54I believe that Kamala Harris is whatever she says she is.
19:58But I believe, importantly, that President Trump is right, that she's a chameleon.
20:02She pretends to be one thing in front of one audience.
20:04She pretends to be something different in front of another audience.
20:07Look, Dana, she's not running a political campaign.
20:10She's running a movie.
20:12She only speaks to voters behind a teleprompter.
20:15Everything is scripted.
20:16She doesn't have her policy positions out there.
20:18She hasn't answered why she wanted to ban fracking, but now she doesn't.
20:21She wanted to fund police, but now she doesn't.
20:23She wanted to open the border, but now she doesn't.
20:25She should have to answer for why she presents a different set of policies to one audience
20:30and a different set of policies to another audience.
20:33And I think that's what President Trump is getting at.
20:34This is a fundamentally fake person.
20:36She's different depending on who she's in front of.
20:39With respect, you changed your position on an important thing, which is Donald Trump.
20:43Of course I did.
20:44And I'm honest about it.
20:45So why are you not a chameleon?
20:46Because, Dana, I've explained to the American people what's different.
20:49People change their minds when the facts change.
20:51They should.
20:52But if you want to be the people's vice president or president, you should have to stand before
20:56an interviewer and say, this is why I changed my mind.
20:58So to everybody who's seen that I criticized Donald Trump since he asked the question,
21:02here are two things about—
21:03You didn't just criticize him.
21:04You said he could be America's Hitler.
21:05Well, that's a criticism.
21:06And I didn't say that exactly, but set that to the side.
21:09What I said about Donald Trump and what I believed about Donald Trump, two things that
21:13really change.
21:14First of all, I didn't think Donald Trump would be a good president.
21:16He was a great president.
21:18Wages were rising.
21:19The world was more peaceful.
21:20Remember, when Donald Trump was running for president the first time, they said he would
21:23start World War III.
21:24He brought more peace to the world than any president of my lifetime.
21:28The second thing, Dana, is I believed—and I'm ashamed of it—I believed a lot of the
21:32media lies about Donald Trump in 2016.
21:35I believe that he said things like, for example, the media said Donald Trump accused all Mexicans
21:40of being rapists and criminals.
21:41You actually look at what he said.
21:42He did not say that at all.
21:44And I think it's important when you see something, you change your mind, and that's all I've
21:48done.
21:49And my pitch to the American people would be, I imagine a lot of folks who are thinking
21:53about voting for Donald Trump in 2024, maybe they've bought into the media lies about him.
21:58Think for yourself.
21:59Look at what he actually said.
22:00And I think you'll find that he's, one, a very engaging guy, but two, he was a very
22:03good president.
22:05There aren't media lies.
22:07We play him, and we let him speak for himself.
22:09And so people are getting exactly what they want.
22:11I'm not accusing you of lying, Dana.
22:12No, I know.
22:13I know.
22:14You know I like you.
22:15But the media lies from time to time about Donald Trump.
22:16I know you're not.
22:17But people hear him for himself.
22:18Last question.
22:19Please.
22:20Are you going to debate Tim Walz?
22:21Of course.
22:22I want to debate Tim Walz.
22:23I think it's important.
22:24And I think that it goes to a very fundamental difference between the Trump-Vance ticket
22:26and our opposition.
22:27We believe in talking to the media.
22:30We believe in answering questions.
22:31We believe in debating.
22:32I think it's really important.
22:33I mean, look, I'm asking the American people to make me their vice president.
22:38It's really important to stand before the American people to make that case.
22:42And I'm going to keep on doing it in whatever form I get the opportunity.
22:44So thank you.
22:45We look forward to it.
22:46Thank you so much for sitting down and taking my questions.
22:47Of course.
22:48Thank you for coming here.