'This is an extreme measure,' says Norway's foreign minister after Israel revokes envoys' diplomatic status
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00:00In the past, it was the country that Israelis and Palestinians could turn to for quiet diplomacy.
00:06Today, the row between Norway and Israel is out in the open.
00:10Oslo, summoning an Israeli official after the government of Benjamin Netanyahu announced
00:16that the diplomatic status of Norwegian envoys to the Palestinian Authority would be revoked
00:22over what the Israeli foreign ministry calls Oslo's, quote, anti-Israel behavior.
00:28For more, let's cross to the Norwegian capital and Foreign Minister Espen Bart Eide.
00:34Thank you for speaking with us here on France 24.
00:39Good to be with you.
00:41Have the Israelis specified what they mean by anti-Israel behavior?
00:47Not very precisely, because they should know that Norway is a friend of Israel and Israeli
00:52people, but we do have our severe disagreements with the Netanyahu government, the way that
00:58they have behaved in the Gaza war, where we think there have been excessive use of
01:02force.
01:03And also, we have been among the clearest countries when it's about the illegality of
01:09the occupation.
01:10So, we've been clear on that.
01:11But we have continued the work which we've had for decades in supporting the construction
01:16of Palestinian authorities, which is a key element of a future Palestinian state.
01:22And I think this is just a part of the efforts of this Netanyahu government to actually undermine
01:28any idea of a Palestinian state and a two-state solution.
01:32I think they do that to Israel's detriment.
01:35In your discussions with the Israeli charge d'affaires, what did you get the sense of?
01:38What irked them more?
01:39Was it the case before the International Criminal Court, the recognition of a Palestinian state,
01:45or the increased funding that Norway is giving to the refugee agency, the aid agency UNRWA?
01:53There were actually no specific explanations.
01:55It was, you know, Mr. Katz, the foreign minister of Israel, has talked about so-called anti-Israeli
02:03behavior, which we completely disagree with.
02:06But I actually asked for the specifics of what the reason was, and she promised to come
02:12back to me with an answer.
02:13Unfortunately, I didn't have it at the time, but without Jerusalem.
02:16And frankly, I think this is an extreme measure.
02:19It aims at undermining our support for Palestinian people, our humanitarian, developmental efforts
02:26and support for a Palestinian state.
02:28And I firmly believe that the road to peace in the Middle East is that there is a Palestinian
02:33state living in peace with Israel, and that there is no real alternative to that.
02:38And we will continue to work for that.
02:40We are not deterred.
02:41And I just explained to the Palestinian prime minister a few hours ago that our commitment
02:46remains as strong as ever.
02:49Even before the assassination of Ismail Haniyeh last week, the true power inside Hamas seemed
02:55to lie with the hardliner Yahya Sinwar.
02:57He's now been officially anointed as its head.
03:04Is it possible to negotiate with Hamas under the current conditions?
03:07Are they just as hard-lined as the Netanyahu government in your eyes?
03:11Is it the same?
03:12Well, the tragic situation of this is that extremism fosters extremism.
03:19So these hard-line positions, they embolden each other, and that's exactly why we try
03:23to reach out to the moderate forces.
03:25Of course, the Palestine Authority, which is run by the PLO and the different groups
03:31like Fatah, is the opposite to Hamas.
03:34So this is very much an attempt.
03:37What we are doing is trying to build the alternative, a strong Palestinian state that is able to
03:42live in peace with Israel, which is not what Hamas wants and seemingly not what the current
03:46Israeli government wants.
03:48We will continue to work for that because our commitment to Israel's security and the
03:53Palestinian state will remain.
03:55We are friends of both people, but then friends must be able to criticize each other when
04:01we think they are doing something wrong.
04:03And frankly, the expansion of settlements on the West Bank, the violence on the West
04:07Bank and the extreme measures in Gaza is undermining any hope of a two-state solution just at the
04:14time where the international community is more united than ever before on the need for
04:18a two-state solution.
04:19And we're playing a role in that, and that's, I think, exactly why Foreign Minister Katz
04:25and the Netanyahu government singled out us with this.
04:28We are informing our close allies in Europe and North America about this, and this of
04:33course will have consequences.
04:36And we will also have to come back to what consequence it has in our bilateral relation
04:39to Israel.
04:41But our primary concern is how to help the quest for peace and also building a Palestinian
04:47state in the long run.
04:48Again, can you do it without talking to the hardliners, the hardliners who are inside
04:56the Israeli camp and the hardliners inside the Palestinian camp?
05:01Well, our policy is that we should talk to everybody that has influence.
05:06You know, talking is not the reward.
05:09Actually when you disagree, there is more need to talk than when you agree.
05:12So diplomacy is about reaching out to people, including those you disagree with.
05:17So we would like to have, we want to speak also to the Israeli government.
05:23We have contacts with the different groups in the Middle East.
05:27And that's, I think, why we remain relevant.
05:30And we will continue to strive for that.
05:31But I mean, this type of behavior from a government which is increasingly isolated internationally
05:39is not good and not so much concerned about Norway.
05:43I'm concerned about the situation in the Middle East and the effect it has on the Palestinian
05:47authorities.
05:48And I think that what Prime Minister Mohamed Moustafa just said publicly is very correct.
05:55This is first and foremost another sign that Israel simply does not want the Palestinian
06:00state, which runs counter to what the United Security Council, the General Assembly and
06:05the G20 keeps asking for.
06:09Were you surprised by what was said?
06:12Yes.
06:13You know, we have been used to language from this Israeli government, which, should I say,
06:21politely transcends the normal rules of diplomacy.
06:24That is not news.
06:25But this action, I think, exceeds that and is a very stark diplomatic move.
06:32Remember that it's not the diplomats serving to Israel.
06:37These are the diplomats working with Palestine.
06:41Their status that is revoked is a large mission for Norwegian standards, several people.
06:46But it's impossible in the current circumstances to work in the West Bank without diplomatic
06:53accreditation also to Israel.
06:55So the aim is clearly to undermine our work with Palestine.
06:59So we will now find other ways.
07:00It will be more complicated, but Norway will not be deterred.
07:05Espen Bartheida, many thanks for speaking with us here on France 24.
07:09Thanks for your interest.