• 4 months ago
Transcript
00:00:30I often wonder about the nature of reality, about our relationship to the creative force
00:00:36that forged the particles of our stars and intertwined them with the molecules of our
00:00:41bodies.
00:00:42Who are we, and where are we actually sitting within the architecture of our universe?
00:00:47Are we alone, or is the answer simply stranger than we can think?
00:00:53My name is Jeremy Korbel, I seek to weaponize your curiosity, and if you're ready to
00:00:59suspend your own prejudice, welcome to the world of extraordinary beliefs.
00:01:29This week, we've heard the contention of UFO researchers that there is a secret government
00:01:46within our government.
00:01:47Well, there are several, actually nine flying saucers, flying disks, that are out there
00:01:54of extraterrestrial origin.
00:02:24Not to burst your bubble, but the Earth is not the center of the universe, at least not
00:02:35anymore.
00:02:36You are not the star of your own movie, humans are not the top of the food chain, and fate
00:02:45is a fantasy.
00:02:46But I can't prove any of this, even if I wanted to.
00:02:54There is an indefinable, mysterious power that pervades everything.
00:03:00I feel it, though I do not see it.
00:03:03It is this unseen power which makes itself felt.
00:03:07There is an indefinable, mysterious power that pervades everything.
00:03:14I feel it, though I do not see it.
00:03:17It is this unseen power which makes itself felt.
00:03:22There it is.
00:03:24Reality simply isn't what it used to be.
00:03:52Things are not what they seem.
00:03:55Everything around us is a mental construct.
00:03:58We create our own reality.
00:04:01Breaking that down is hard to do.
00:04:04And once it's done, there ain't no coming back.
00:04:14What happens to people when their fundamental beliefs, the bedrock of their understanding,
00:04:20explodes into a million puzzle pieces?
00:04:23When something comes careening from out of the blue, and it messes with everything we know?
00:04:31How do we react?
00:04:33How do we react?
00:04:50How do we react?
00:04:52How do we react?
00:04:54How do we react?
00:04:56How do we react?
00:04:58How do we react?
00:05:00How do we react?
00:05:02How do we react?
00:05:04How do we react?
00:05:06How do we react?
00:05:08How do we react?
00:05:10How do we react?
00:05:12How do we react?
00:05:14How do we react?
00:05:16How do we react?
00:05:18How do we react?
00:05:20There is an indefinable, mysterious power that pervades all of us.
00:05:49That pervades everything.
00:06:19By now, they weren't real at all.
00:06:24This story is extraordinary.
00:06:27Especially if it's true.
00:06:30And it all started in the desert, just north of Las Vegas.
00:06:49Area 51, the most secretive spots on the planet, is located on the northeast edge of the Nevada test site and is said to be where numerous top secret weapon systems have been tested over the years.
00:07:18According to some UFO researchers, it's also where the government is test flying alien spacecraft.
00:07:24It sounds pretty far out, but some Las Vegas residents report having seen these flying saucers.
00:07:30A local scientist who says he worked at Groom Lake and saw the saucers joins us in tonight's interview.
00:07:35He has asked that his identity be shielded.
00:07:38Sir, how do we know you are who you say you are and that you actually have knowledge about what's going on at Groom Lake?
00:07:44Well, I guess there's no way you could really know.
00:07:47There's really no way I could prove it without revealing my identity and getting myself into more trouble than I have already.
00:07:54Exactly what's going on up there?
00:07:56Well, there's several, actually nine, flying saucers, flying disks, that are out there of extraterrestrial origin.
00:08:06And they're being test flown and basically just analyzed.
00:08:12You say there's nine saucers? How are those tests going?
00:08:16As far as what?
00:08:18As far as whether they're successful and that sort of thing.
00:08:22Oh, well, some of them are 100% intact and operate perfectly.
00:08:27The other ones are being taken apart. I was involved mainly in propulsion and the power source.
00:08:33Where did we get these saucers? How did they come into the hands of the government?
00:08:37I haven't the slightest idea, and you have to understand the information is very compartmentalized.
00:08:43And I was only allowed information that pertained particularly to what I was involved in.
00:08:48But, I mean, couldn't our government have made them as opposed to getting them from some alien beings?
00:08:53Totally impossible.
00:08:55The propulsion system is a gravity propulsion system. The power source is an antimatter reactor.
00:09:02This technology does not exist at all.
00:09:05In fact, one of the reasons that I'm going forward with this information,
00:09:07it's not only a crime against the American people, it's a crime against the scientific community,
00:09:12which I've been part of for some time.
00:09:14We're actively trying to duplicate these systems, yet they are in existence now
00:09:18and basically in the hands of the government.
00:09:21What would happen to you if the government learned that you were giving us this information?
00:09:26Anything could happen. I don't know. I haven't the slightest idea.
00:09:31You said you were referred to getting into trouble. Have you had some repercussions already?
00:09:37Yeah, I've been threatened with being charged with espionage.
00:09:41I've had my life threatened by them, my wife's life threatened by them.
00:09:45And, I mean, I don't know where else you can go from there.
00:09:49Well, we want to thank you for joining us. Pretty interesting stuff you've got to say. Thank you.
00:09:53Thank you, sir.
00:09:55More news in just a moment.
00:09:57Now, first we go to Dan Rather in Beijing for a look ahead at the CBS Evening News.
00:10:00CBS Evening News from China. We'll have extensive coverage of Mikhail Gorbachev.
00:10:08The live interview with the shadowy Dennis drew international attention.
00:10:13Portions were broadcast by radio in six European countries
00:10:17and in a nationally televised TV special in Japan.
00:10:21Despite numerous inquiries and feelers, Dennis has remained anonymous until now.
00:10:26His real name is Robert Lazar.
00:10:29He says he was hired to work at an area called S4, which is a few miles south of Groom Lake.
00:10:34At S4, he says, are flying saucers, anti-matter reactors,
00:10:38and other working examples of technology that is seemingly beyond human capabilities.
00:10:43Gordon Knapp, Iowa News 8.
00:10:49Good evening, everyone. You're in the right place at the right time.
00:10:53Blasting out of the Mojave Desert like a Chiraco.
00:10:56Blazing across the land, into your town, into your home.
00:11:00Slamming into your radio like a supercharged nanoparticle of unobtainium.
00:11:05Greetings to all of you from the boldest, bodiest, most outrageous city in the world.
00:11:11Planetary capital of sun, fun, sin, sex, and secrets.
00:11:15My not so humble hometown, Las Vegas, Nevada.
00:11:21You know, there are a lot of people, myself included,
00:11:25who would like to focus on big picture stuff.
00:11:27Who are these visitors? Why are they here?
00:11:30What is the nature of reality? What is their interest in us?
00:11:33Where do they come from?
00:11:35Now, those are the questions that people have been asking about the UFO mystery since the beginning.
00:11:39We're no closer to answering any of them, but Bob got pretty close.
00:11:43Bob got to read these briefing documents that provided those kind of answers.
00:11:47The thing is, when we were covering his story,
00:11:50so much of the effort was in proving that he really was the person he said he was.
00:11:54Is it true? Is it plausible?
00:11:57That really, that was the focus more than the really important stuff.
00:12:02You have to cover the story of Bob Lazar.
00:12:05And the only way to do that is to talk to Bob.
00:12:07And I don't know if he'll talk to you or not, but you need to try.
00:12:10It's all going to be circumstance for you.
00:12:13Is the moment that you approach him, the mood that he's in,
00:12:16what else is going on in his life at the time,
00:12:19you might hit the jackpot and get him in exactly the right time
00:12:21and the universe is aligned and he's willing to talk about it.
00:12:25But you have to be awfully lucky.
00:12:27Because in general, Bob doesn't like to talk about it.
00:12:30I think he's very happy in his life.
00:12:32He's happy to have left the UFO stuff behind.
00:12:35He misses his friends.
00:12:37He misses John Lear.
00:12:39He misses Gene Hough.
00:12:41Maybe even me, to some extent.
00:12:43But he doesn't miss the UFO topic.
00:12:45And he doesn't miss talking about it.
00:12:47Because ultimately, it's disturbing.
00:12:48These are disturbing issues.
00:12:50They go to the heart of who we are as people.
00:12:53As human beings.
00:12:55The nature of reality itself.
00:12:57Is this a computer simulation?
00:12:59Are we all the product of an alien video game?
00:13:02Or some multi-dimensional movie,
00:13:05drive-in movie theater production or something?
00:13:08Big questions.
00:13:10Disturbing answers.
00:13:12And Bob has never been comfortable in talking about it.
00:13:15Never.
00:13:17He reacted by going into a cocoon in a lot of ways.
00:13:21He didn't like...
00:13:23He doesn't like the attention.
00:13:25And it totally screwed up his life.
00:13:27It's not surprising that even years later,
00:13:29he still is uncomfortable in discussing these things.
00:13:32It's a very disturbing view of reality.
00:13:46Being a young person's guide to UFOs.
00:13:49Wow, this looks old, man.
00:13:50Cheers.
00:14:20Hey, what are we talking about anyway?
00:14:23We'll go through...
00:14:31My name is Bob Lazar.
00:14:34I'm known for working at a classified base
00:14:38known as S4 out in the Nevada desert,
00:14:40near Area 51.
00:14:42And there,
00:14:44we reverse-engineered alien spacecraft.
00:14:48And it's changed my life.
00:14:50A lot.
00:14:52You know, it's probably changed every aspect of it.
00:14:55Positive or negative?
00:14:58Well, for the most part, negative.
00:15:01I mean, it's really difficult to find positive aspects of that.
00:15:07I mean, I'm sure there are some here and there,
00:15:09but most of them were negative.
00:15:13Would you take it all back and just be Bob the jet car guy
00:15:18and never have done this if you can?
00:15:20What's your experience?
00:15:22Yeah, that's hard to say.
00:15:24I don't know, I think I'd lean towards not...
00:15:27At this point in my life,
00:15:29I'd probably lean towards not saying anything.
00:15:31You know, what would be your message to a young person now
00:15:34about looking at your story and thinking about the world?
00:15:37What would you say to them?
00:15:39Just pay attention.
00:15:41Just pay attention.
00:15:43I can't really say much else.
00:15:45The world's a lot different now.
00:15:47The way information is disseminated
00:15:48and the way things are passed around,
00:15:51it's distorted even faster and more now than it used to be.
00:15:55So they've got a rough road ahead
00:15:57if they're trying to cut through the bullshit.
00:16:00What do you want them to know?
00:16:04That in the late 1980s,
00:16:06the U.S. government had recovered alien spacecraft,
00:16:11several of them, and the technology
00:16:13in the Nevada desert that they were keeping quiet and analyzing.
00:16:18That's a fact.
00:16:20They don't need my story,
00:16:22but that's all my story was,
00:16:25was that I was just one of the people
00:16:27working on these craft.
00:16:41Well, fine, I'll just say everything
00:16:43instead of holding back on anything,
00:16:45and then you can edit it later on.
00:16:46All right.
00:16:48Well, take it from the top then.
00:16:50Okay.
00:16:52Well, go ahead.
00:16:54How you got involved with this program?
00:16:56I had sent resumes to several national labs.
00:17:01I got a response from a couple of them.
00:17:03I went in for an interview.
00:17:05They had a job in mind,
00:17:08and then they continued questioning me,
00:17:12mainly on my interests outside of work.
00:17:14They seemed to be really concerned about that.
00:17:17About things like jet cars?
00:17:19Right.
00:17:21What do you do in your spare time?
00:17:23You know, you say you work on little projects.
00:17:25I said, yeah, I have a particle accelerator
00:17:27in my master bedroom and things of that sort.
00:17:30And some time went by,
00:17:32and they called me back in.
00:17:34They said there was a senior staff physicist
00:17:36that was leaving this organization,
00:17:38and they basically interviewed me for that job.
00:17:41I was given a lot of briefings to read.
00:17:44I believe there were 121 different briefings.
00:17:47And they just sat me in a room,
00:17:49and while they were going and updating my clearance
00:17:52to a level that they call majestic.
00:17:55You start reading these reports,
00:17:57you see some of them deal with flying saucers.
00:17:59What's your reaction?
00:18:01Well, I was completely shocked.
00:18:03I couldn't believe it,
00:18:05but I was fascinated.
00:18:07I was so excited.
00:18:08It's a science dream, really.
00:18:12Eventually I would have shown them.
00:18:14One close-up, one operating.
00:18:17They had one of the reactors out of the crafts,
00:18:21which was an antimatter reactor.
00:18:23I was given a demonstration on how it worked,
00:18:27things that it did,
00:18:29and the physics of it.
00:18:31The thing they were most interested in
00:18:33is duplicating the reactors
00:18:35without using this element 150.
00:18:39Which is, of course, impossible.
00:18:42They were trying to,
00:18:44and there have been projects before that,
00:18:47just trying to use a normal nuclear generator
00:18:50filled with plutonium.
00:18:52And it was really a futile attempt.
00:18:57Some people are sources of gravity.
00:19:01Their certainty and wholeness commands our attention.
00:19:04We are drawn to them by a natural law
00:19:06that requires we don't quite understand the mechanism.
00:19:13But the pull is like a tide,
00:19:15a current you can't deny.
00:19:17And eventually, it wears you down.
00:19:22Call George Knapp.
00:19:25Calling George Knapp, mobile.
00:19:37Hey, George.
00:19:39What's up, man? How you doing?
00:19:42This is now 30 years
00:19:44since you initially broke the story of Bob Lazar.
00:19:47So, I mean, the amount of information is overwhelming.
00:19:50And I just want to go over with you
00:19:52some of the details of the case.
00:19:54We're talking about UFOs, alien craft,
00:19:57back engineering,
00:19:59and there's Lazar saying he did all that.
00:20:01And from what I understand, it's spread everywhere.
00:20:06And then in May of 1989,
00:20:09with him as Dennis,
00:20:11not his real identity,
00:20:13not known, not revealed to the audience.
00:20:16And even that, before we know who Bob Lazar was,
00:20:19that sparked a great deal of interest among the public.
00:20:23I spent the eight months between May and November
00:20:26trying to verify Bob's background
00:20:28to see if we could solidify the case,
00:20:31to see if we could find out if he was telling the truth.
00:20:33And then the plan was to unleash it in November,
00:20:36which is what we did.
00:20:38It was the highest rated news series we've ever done.
00:20:41It was the highest rated news special
00:20:44that ever aired in Las Vegas.
00:20:46And then it really exploded.
00:20:48It went all over the world.
00:20:50Bootleg copies of the tapes were being sold
00:20:53and shown in movie theaters.
00:20:55You had media interest from all over the world.
00:20:57And I think a lot of it was skeptical in the beginning,
00:21:00which of course it would be.
00:21:01But in the end, every major news organization in the world
00:21:05beat a path to Area 51's door.
00:21:07And tens of thousands of people started showing up out there
00:21:11to see whatever it was that was flying around in the desert.
00:21:14They're still coming, all these years later.
00:21:16And I know a lot of my media colleagues
00:21:18who had problems with that story,
00:21:20but they've all covered it, all of them.
00:21:22You put Area 51 on the map,
00:21:24it's now known all over the world.
00:21:26Even though Lazar worked at S4,
00:21:28Area 51 is the term that the public knows.
00:21:31It was huge. It was huge then, it's huge now.
00:21:37The mountains appear to float on dry lake beds
00:21:40like spaceships from another world.
00:21:42They seem to ride on a viscous material
00:21:45channeled through empty space by heat
00:21:47that rises and separates.
00:21:49It vitrifies everything it contacts
00:21:52like a green glass honey.
00:21:55A goddamn psychedelic liquid
00:21:58drowning the emptiness of imagination.
00:22:02This desert is pocked and punctuated
00:22:05by a thousand gaping holes
00:22:07created in a thousand atomic blasts
00:22:10that define an era.
00:22:13What are they building in the desert
00:22:15north of Las Vegas?
00:22:17What are they hiding?
00:22:19What the fuck are they hiding?
00:22:32What is your name,
00:22:34and what's your relationship to Bob Lazar?
00:22:36My name is Mario Santacruz,
00:22:38and I met Bob actually in my neighborhood.
00:22:41He lived like one block over.
00:22:43My attraction to Bob was his jet dragster.
00:22:46So I saw this jet dragster
00:22:48sitting out in front of his house
00:22:51in our neighborhood,
00:22:53which was extremely,
00:22:55just the jet dragster alone was rare.
00:22:58I was like,
00:22:59that alone was rare.
00:23:01But in my neighborhood
00:23:03to see something like that
00:23:05was unbelievable.
00:23:07People were harassing Bob,
00:23:09threatening him,
00:23:11and you were with him
00:23:13in one of those experiences,
00:23:15at least one.
00:23:17A couple of times actually.
00:23:19I actually had a weapon with me
00:23:21when we rode together
00:23:23because he had been shot at.
00:23:25What was the weapon?
00:23:27Was it the UZI?
00:23:29When it comes to talking about Bob,
00:23:31being careful what I say,
00:23:33you know what I mean?
00:23:35So it's kind of a forced habit
00:23:37to kind of just walk on eggshells a little bit.
00:23:39He just wanted to stay alive.
00:23:41That's why he exposed himself.
00:23:43His life was in chaos.
00:23:45How he pulled out of it,
00:23:47he dug deep.
00:23:49It's a pretty incredible story.
00:23:54They shot at you?
00:23:56Somebody shot?
00:23:57It was a good warning.
00:23:59I had my back tire shot out on my car
00:24:01as I was getting on the freeway.
00:24:03Solid guy?
00:24:05Yeah.
00:24:07Is this a secret worth killing to keep?
00:24:09I mean, the government, would you say?
00:24:11Obviously.
00:24:13But in fact,
00:24:15the only reason
00:24:17that getting this on tape
00:24:19is insurance.
00:24:21Well, that's one reason.
00:24:23But I mean, also,
00:24:25as an American citizen,
00:24:27you're one of those people.
00:24:29Yeah, I am,
00:24:31but not enough to have stood here
00:24:33and have it on the record.
00:24:35Insurance is the true motivation behind this.
00:24:44At four months old,
00:24:46in our little apartment in Florida,
00:24:48and that's me holding him.
00:24:50Very proud mom holding him.
00:24:52We have a beautiful little place in Florida.
00:24:58One Sunday morning,
00:25:00must have been about six o'clock in the morning,
00:25:02everyone was sleeping with this huge bang.
00:25:04Bob had put a jet engine in the bike.
00:25:07At six in the morning,
00:25:09he decided to take it out for a trip.
00:25:11What did you guys think when he said,
00:25:13Mom, Dad, I'm building here?
00:25:15Scared out of my mind.
00:25:17I didn't know what he was going to do next.
00:25:19Was he going to blow up the house, blow up the world?
00:25:21I don't know. I don't know.
00:25:23It's out there, you know?
00:25:25He's out there.
00:25:28You know, if he proves his story, let's say,
00:25:32maybe it would cause problems.
00:25:34Maybe it would blow shit up.
00:25:37More than likely it would.
00:25:39He's best off keeping things on low, down low, really.
00:25:44But at the same time, he has said there are ways,
00:25:46there is a way he could prove his story.
00:25:49I want him to be happy.
00:25:51If vindication is what he wants, fine.
00:25:54But that's up to him.
00:25:55You believe him or not.
00:25:57It's a fearful thing to think
00:25:59that there's something out there
00:26:01that we don't know anything about.
00:26:03Are they dangerous? Can they hurt us?
00:26:06Will they attack us?
00:26:08You don't want to know, so you don't believe it.
00:26:11You'd rather not believe
00:26:13there might be other things out there,
00:26:15other things in the universe.
00:26:17There has to be. We can't be all by ourselves.
00:26:20We can't be.
00:26:25We can't be.
00:26:43My name is Joy, and I am Bob's wife.
00:26:46We've been together. It'll be 17 years.
00:26:48What is it that you think is most misunderstood?
00:26:52Um, that he really is an honest guy, you know, he doesn't make stuff up.
00:27:02I guess it's just so big, so the easier thing to do is to point the finger and say liar.
00:27:10Yeah, that's so sad. That's really sad that they don't know real Bob.
00:27:23There's particular moments that define each one of us.
00:27:29We may not know it at the time, but we learn it later.
00:27:37Every action creates a cascade of reactions. Life is a web of events.
00:27:42Actions overlaid by consequence.
00:27:52And woven across the fabric of time, the fabric of time.
00:27:57Future determined by past. Past defined by present.
00:28:04Present experienced throughout the lens of personal history.
00:28:09But for some, it's obvious. You can put your finger on it.
00:28:14That definable, indelible moment when everything changed.
00:28:23I love my job. There's a lot of craftsmanship in the stuff that I do.
00:28:26I really like working with my hands. It's a really unique job.
00:28:30I don't think there's any other job where you get to do this kind of stuff every day.
00:28:33We'll either get a really interesting order coming in or Bob will get bored
00:28:38and try to come up with a new product, and that's when it gets really fun.
00:28:41So there's another one that he wants to do, like recreate a grand atomic chemistry set,
00:28:48something of that sort, and I think that would be really cool if he ever decides to really hone in on that.
00:28:53This is the Atomic Energy Lab kit. It's something from the 1950s, a toy,
00:28:58like a chemistry set you get for your kid. It was made by a company called Atomic Energy.
00:29:03Chemistry is today a fascinating adventure for youth of all ages.
00:29:08Gilbert has made this exciting science available in safe and easy-to-understand form,
00:29:14made as completely safe as human ingenuity can devise.
00:29:22This actually came with radioactive material. You could really conduct atomic energy experiments
00:29:28in it. It was fascinating, and it was billed as the most dangerous toy ever made, and still,
00:29:35in some respects, is still considered that way today. But the thing is, it wasn't. It was just
00:29:40people's fear.
00:30:11So here I am, and I'm watching you do your work. When people don't know you, it's so easy
00:30:17for them to just make shit up about you and to dehumanize you. How simple that is to do.
00:30:24The fact that somebody would say you're not a scientist. I mean, all I've ever done
00:30:29is science-related stuff my entire life, so I don't know. I guess the point is, do I really care what
00:30:39people I don't know think? And probably, to some extent, I do, but I don't dwell on it.
00:30:47I guess it is easier to discredit someone that you have no information on because you can
00:30:51just say anything about them, and there's nothing to refute it.
00:30:56I mean, I feel privileged I got to work in it. So, in some respects, I shouldn't be allowed to
00:31:03complain. I've given the example of transporting a small, modern-day, portable nuclear reactor
00:31:12back into Victorian times and giving it to the scientists there. Back in that time,
00:31:16they didn't even know about radiation. So they'd see a machine making power,
00:31:19kind of like what we're doing, and marvel at it. Wow, it's producing a lot of power. There's no
00:31:24smokestack. There's no coal. There's no fuel. How is this thing working?
00:31:28They start taking it apart. Well, they'll all die. As soon as they get close to the core,
00:31:34people that come in to check on them will all die. And no one knows. Nothing touched them,
00:31:39so they're going to think it's haunted or there's some evil forces or something in there.
00:31:43But, I mean, who says that can't happen to us? The first time Barry showed me the reactor in
00:31:49operation, here it is on the bench, and he said, try and touch the sphere on top. And you couldn't.
00:31:55Your hand was pushed away, just like two light poles of a magnet. It's the exact same feeling,
00:32:02but there was no metal involved. And that's shocking. That's really shocking, because
00:32:07nothing does that. That's an operating, powerful force field. So just seeing something like that
00:32:14immediately starts that whole chain reaction in your mind, going, wow, wait, if you can do this,
00:32:19there can be force fields on tanks. There can be things that lift off the ground. We don't
00:32:22have jet and rocket engines anymore. That means there's, wait, there's no use for cars. I mean,
00:32:25boom, the whole thing changes. The entire world, the economy, everything would go end-on-end
00:32:32just if we had an answer to how that machine worked that I was sitting there touching.
00:32:38The potential for us to re-understand human experience is...
00:32:44Right. Right. I mean, there's life somewhere else. It's a big deal. It's an important part
00:32:51of human history that we've found that out. It was awesome, but fearsome at the same time.
00:33:02It was being completely fucking scared all day long. It's not exactly the most fun job when
00:33:09you're there. You know, almost three decades later, the fear drops off and you're just left
00:33:14with the amazement and technology that you were exposed to. We have, you know, an artifact here
00:33:20from another civilization. It really changed the way a lot of people think. We're all looking for
00:33:26an answer. Having physical proof is an awful big deal. I think what a lot of people find really
00:33:32compelling about Bob, he legitimately appeared and appears sometimes just perplexed by what he saw.
00:33:40Have you noticed that kind of about him? Yeah, he was aware that this was weird. He was aware
00:33:46it was weird that they hired him. I mean, you know, he's a smart guy and he thinks outside the
00:33:51box. So in a lot of ways, he might have been just what exactly what they needed for a program that
00:33:57seemed to be stalled. But he knew that he wasn't their kind of a guy, that they could have had
00:34:03their pick of any scientists in the world, presumably, to work on this. So it was strange.
00:34:08And it was strange that they started showing him these briefing books with this incredibly
00:34:12sensitive information right off the bat. As soon as he gets there, they start showing him this
00:34:17stuff with alien bodies broken down so you can see their organs and the history of human alien
00:34:25interaction and all kinds of things that the UFO community had suspected, but no one could prove.
00:34:31And he just thought it was weird that anyone would show him this stuff. He wondered what the heck was
00:34:36going on. I think he was thrilled. You know, part of him was really thrilled to be there and thrilled
00:34:40to see it, even if it turned out to be some kind of a ruse. But, you know, he knew that something
00:34:47was not quite right about the whole thing or suspected that anyway. You were telling people
00:34:53since 1989 that there was some sort of hand scanner that was like a bone scanner. And you
00:34:58tried to describe it. You said you think it took measurements of the bone. There are these pegs. You
00:35:03put your hand on it. It's a small plate with some pins on it that you could put between your fingers.
00:35:08There's a bright light above it. The interesting thing is when you walk into the facility or even
00:35:13to leave, they have a hand reader. I was told that it has to do something where it measures the
00:35:20bright light, measures the bones in your finger. They're unique to each person. It sounds like
00:35:24something out of a TV show, but it's exactly the way it is. Man, I looked for that kind of thing
00:35:31all over the Internet, never found anything. And then all of a sudden this article comes out and
00:35:36it says that at the Nellis Range, they were talking about the stealth program, there was
00:35:43indeed this hand scanner that was used in these secret programs. And they just admitted or
00:35:48announced it publicly. And there were some photos. And I just was interested. And so
00:35:55I never thought I'd see one of these again. But I tried to explain this to people so many times,
00:36:01and they either didn't believe me or say, yeah, yeah, I'm sure. And there it is. There it is.
00:36:08It's like a biometric thing for the hands. Yeah.
00:36:10The beginnings of, yeah, I mean, it wasn't all that advanced back then, but yeah, that's it.
00:36:17I can't believe you found a picture of this. I really can't. This was the scanner used to get in
00:36:23to S4. And I tried to explain this to people so many times that there was pins in, you stuck your
00:36:29hand, a light above, and it supposedly measured the length of the bones in your hand that,
00:36:34you know, is unique in each individual. It's exactly, exactly how it was.
00:36:44Yeah, that's amazing. It's amazing you came up with these. It's amazing to see this again.
00:36:51Back then, this was the hot take.
00:36:54What does it feel like when these little things that you said
00:36:57become public and there's this tiny bit of vindication?
00:37:00It is. There's little moments of vindication, you know, little pieces here and there that,
00:37:04you know, little I told you so's, you know, pop up every couple of years or so. But this is a big one.
00:37:13A lot of people said these didn't exist. And, you know, it was some just
00:37:20fanciful thing I came up with. But yeah, this is exactly it.
00:37:24Ideas are the most dangerous weapons on the planet. They creep under your skin. Dormant,
00:37:31volatile, explosive. They attach to our collective consciousness. And then one day,
00:37:40man, they bubble to the surface to assert their power.
00:37:43And when detonated, life is never the same again. And we immediately know we're always wrong.
00:37:52We're always fucking wrong.
00:38:03I don't know if I'm going to be able to do this.
00:38:05I don't know if I'm going to be able to do this.
00:38:07I don't know if I'm going to be able to do this.
00:38:09I do not believe that this should be a security matter. Some of it, sure, but just the concept
00:38:19that there's definite proof. We even have articles from another world, another system.
00:38:26You just can't not tell everyone.
00:38:28Checking out Lazar's credentials proved to be a difficult task. He says he earned degrees in
00:38:33physics and electronics, but the schools we contacted say they've never heard of him.
00:38:37He also said he worked as a physicist at Los Alamos National Lab, where he experimented with
00:38:42one of the world's largest particle beam accelerators, a half-mile-long behemoth capable
00:38:47of generating 700 million volts. Los Alamos officials told us they had no records of a
00:38:52Robert Lazar ever working there. They were either mistaken or were lying. A 1982 phone book from the
00:38:58lab lists Lazar right there among the other scientists and technicians. A 1982 clipping
00:39:04from the Los Alamos newspaper profiled Lazar and his interest in jet cars. It too mentioned
00:39:09his employment at the lab as a physicist. We called Los Alamos again. An exasperated official
00:39:15told us he still had no records on Lazar. EG&G, which is where Lazar says he was interviewed for
00:39:21the job at S4, also has no records. It's as if someone has made him disappear.
00:39:26One thing that people say about your story and your experience is that you were a puppet,
00:39:30a marionette, that you had no control over what was going on at that time. That you were
00:39:35taken advantage, you were compromised, and you're being used as a source of disinformation.
00:39:39And what evidence to support that?
00:39:43Right.
00:39:44Yeah, and what's the evidence to support those claims? Is that just something to say?
00:39:48No, I'm just saying that's what, that's the kind of thing.
00:39:50If you make a statement, you have to have some evidence to say where the statement came from.
00:39:54You're basing it on emotion.
00:39:56Right.
00:39:57Fear.
00:39:57And you're afraid that I'm right.
00:39:59Tell me what you've heard that makes this impossible.
00:40:03I'm trying to tell you exactly the way things work.
00:40:06Where is it? Show me the alternate reality that you believe.
00:40:13That doesn't lock up with my actual reality.
00:40:18I mean, where are those other facts? Just show me what they are,
00:40:21these facts you grabbed together and painted a different story of my life than I did.
00:40:30I mean, I thought I set the record straight 30 years ago.
00:40:35Can we ever be made whole if we're not believed? If our life story is challenged by a consensus?
00:40:42Most of us are not forced to answer for our past.
00:40:45We can freely navigate this moment with reverence for what came before.
00:40:51But some people are placed under a microscope.
00:40:54Their words, their actions scrutinized and challenged.
00:40:58And then they're told to quiet the lies.
00:41:02How much can a man take before he submits to the weight and consequence of distrust?
00:41:07Does he fade back into the shadows that formed him?
00:41:11Or does he lash out to carve his words into your flesh?
00:41:24I don't know what else can I say.
00:41:27What else can I say? How can I prove anything else?
00:41:30At the worst case scenario, you lied for a girl or you lied to get a job.
00:41:35What does that mean about your story?
00:41:39Do you think Los Alamos just hired me out of high school?
00:41:47If you don't think that's possible, then something had to happen in between.
00:41:53I don't understand how everybody gets so caught up in the minutia.
00:42:01Because you can debate that stuff forever.
00:42:05We can go back before MIT.
00:42:07And you can start fighting whether or not and where I lived in high school.
00:42:13That is not going to translate into answering the questions.
00:42:18And the things that I've brought into the public eye.
00:42:21That's the important stuff.
00:42:23It almost seems like this is an intentional distraction.
00:42:26You need to pay attention to the bigger picture.
00:42:28If you really want to research all the other stuff, fine, go ahead and do it.
00:42:33But you really need to pay attention to what I'm saying.
00:42:36Because I have better things to do than come up with this.
00:42:39I'm not interested in doing this.
00:42:41I'm not, I don't like, I don't like being in the public eye.
00:42:45I don't like being in the public eye.
00:42:47I don't got money for doing this.
00:42:49And quite frankly, I could make up a better lie.
00:42:51But I have no motivation to lie.
00:42:56This hasn't, this hasn't helped me out.
00:42:59What does that mean for Lazar's story that we can't prove his schooling, in fact?
00:43:05It was a problem.
00:43:06I mean, I had, I wondered, can we go forward if he, if we can't verify
00:43:11what was going on in his background?
00:43:13The central point for me was, if he worked at Los Alamos, that suggests
00:43:18he had to have an education somewhere.
00:43:19I think he said it to me a couple of times, you know, what do you think?
00:43:22They hired me right out of high school.
00:43:24I looked at people who knew him back then.
00:43:27Jim Taliani, for one, who said that, yeah, Bob went to Caltech back then.
00:43:31I dropped him off.
00:43:32I interviewed another person who also knew Bob then and said that he would drop him off
00:43:38at Caltech, would pick him up from the library.
00:43:40That if he wasn't going to school there, he sure was making a good show of it back then.
00:43:46Would it prove his story about working on Flying Saucers if he could show he had
00:43:52degrees from Caltech and MIT?
00:43:54No, of course not.
00:43:56It would not prove that he worked on Flying Saucers.
00:43:59It would just prove that he went to school.
00:44:01The people who despise him and who doubt the story the most, the debunkers, would
00:44:07find something else to bitch about.
00:44:09Bob got into some trouble after he became a worldwide UFO celebrity.
00:44:13He did a typical Bob sort of a thing and got mixed up with some hookers.
00:44:17He was helping them set up a little mini brothel in a neighborhood.
00:44:22When he told me about it, I thought, oh, my gosh, my professional life is flashing before
00:44:26my eyes.
00:44:27The most high profile witness and the biggest story I've ever done is now telling me he's
00:44:33involved in this criminal enterprise.
00:44:35He kind of thought it was funny, but it wasn't funny to me.
00:44:38So I said, you got to stop this stuff.
00:44:39You got to shut this down.
00:44:41I called the cops.
00:44:42I let some people know, look, he made a mistake.
00:44:44It's being shut down.
00:44:46They raided the place, arrested Bob.
00:44:48And in those days, there weren't many people who were ever prosecuted and arrested for
00:44:53pandering.
00:44:53Lazar was.
00:44:55So parole and probation.
00:44:57They're doing a background investigation and they're going to make a recommendation to
00:45:01the court what the sentence should be for his crimes.
00:45:04He tells them the same story where he went to school, where he worked for MIT, Caltech,
00:45:10all that.
00:45:11And they investigated.
00:45:12They were having the same problems that I was having.
00:45:14They couldn't verify a lot of this stuff.
00:45:17If Bob truly was a UFO con man, that was the time to come clean because parole and probation
00:45:25was ticked off.
00:45:26They thought he was misleading them.
00:45:29And as a result of that, they were going to recommend they did recommend that he do hard
00:45:33time, go to prison.
00:45:36He knew it.
00:45:37That was the time for him to come clean because it was a much better chance that he would
00:45:41not be sent to prison.
00:45:42He didn't.
00:45:43He stuck to his story.
00:45:44He told them the same story that he told me.
00:45:47That went a long way for me in showing that he had been telling the truth because it was
00:45:53definitely in his own self-interest to fess up at that point.
00:45:58And that's not what he did.
00:45:59He stuck to his guns.
00:46:00Here's the thing.
00:46:01I can see Bob Lazar pranks the UFO world and the UFO community.
00:46:06I can see him doing something like that.
00:46:08But does he lie to his mom and dad?
00:46:10Does he lie to his wife?
00:46:12Does he lie to all of his close friends and tell them the same story and try to get away
00:46:17with it?
00:46:17You look back on the people who knew him while this was going on, who knew him before he
00:46:22was hired to work out at S4, who knew him during the time he was going back and forth
00:46:27out there, and who stuck by him after this whirlwind of international publicity kind
00:46:33of rained down on his head.
00:46:35Everyone who knew him, everyone who was close to him, supports his story and says he's
00:46:40telling the truth.
00:46:41You saw something up there that you think might have been.
00:46:43I hate, I really hate to say stuff that I can't put my hands on and say this is absolutely
00:46:48for sure.
00:46:49What did you see?
00:46:50I walked down the hallway at one time while I was working out there and there were doors,
00:46:56the doors that go to the hangars, the smaller doors from the corridors that have a nine
00:47:00inch or 12 inch square window with little wires running through it, just about head
00:47:04level.
00:47:05And as I was walking by, I just glanced in and I noticed at a quick glance there were
00:47:13two guys in white lab coats facing me towards the door and they were looking down and talking
00:47:20to something small with long arms.
00:47:24Now, I was just surprised as I walked by and I only caught a glance, but I don't know
00:47:29what on earth that was.
00:47:32People say you saw an alien.
00:47:34Did you see an alien at S4, Bob?
00:47:37I don't think I saw an alien at S4.
00:47:39We're splitting hairs here.
00:47:41This had to do with a glance through a window that I wasn't supposed to be looking at
00:47:46anyway, and I'm still convinced I looked in the window and I think these guys had a
00:47:52doll in a small chair, which was similar to what was in the craft.
00:48:00And I think they were just looking at dimensions and they put something in there and I just
00:48:04took a glance and it was just something tiny sitting in the chair.
00:48:09I don't think there was an alien there posing for them.
00:48:12I think they just had a small character or something, doing measurements or something.
00:48:18Again, we're talking about a 400 millisecond glance.
00:48:25Now, how much can you see out of that?
00:48:27I never saw any aliens walking around there.
00:48:29I never heard anybody saying anything about living aliens, so I don't think that was it.
00:48:35But they did have a nickname for the aliens.
00:48:39The Kids.
00:48:41The Kids.
00:48:49Is someone else here?
00:48:51Maybe visitors interested in us, in our genes, in our souls.
00:48:58Maybe we're property, just a goddamn commodity.
00:49:03We're like livestock.
00:49:05Maybe they'd like our condors and cupcakes, the kimono or the top hat, who the fuck knows.
00:49:12Or maybe every single sighting of things in the sky is a product of our collective consciousness.
00:49:19The false hope that humanity desperately needs intervention by external powers.
00:49:26We've always looked to the skies for answers, instead of looking into ourselves.
00:49:36All right, so when, at what point describe the evolution of your knowledge
00:49:41here, I mean, did you realize that this thing that you're working on came out of a flying saucer?
00:49:47Well, of course, I know that technology doesn't exist at all.
00:49:49Why?
00:49:51Well, it doesn't.
00:49:52Take my word for it.
00:50:00It's just technology that doesn't exist yet.
00:50:05Science doesn't even know what gravity is, much less how to produce it or control it.
00:50:11And here is a device that's producing it and controlling it and using it as a propulsion.
00:50:19You're telling me there's a different physics.
00:50:21That was your job.
00:50:22You were working on that.
00:50:23The science was something we were trying to figure out.
00:50:26But we knew how the devices would operate.
00:50:29You know, for instance, the propulsion of the craft.
00:50:32Everything that we have, whether it's a propeller plane or a jet or a rocket,
00:50:39it throws something out the back, either high-speed exhaust or a large volume of air.
00:50:45It's an action-reaction force.
00:50:47The action is you throw something out the back and it moves you forward.
00:50:51It's how everything works.
00:50:52This is the first time there's a craft that's, it's a reactionless craft.
00:50:58It's a field propulsion craft.
00:51:00And what it does is it creates a distortion in space and time in front of it, where space
00:51:05actually bends.
00:51:06And my analogy to that has always been, put a bowling ball in the middle of your bed and
00:51:13then a foot in front of it, take your fist and push down on the mattress.
00:51:16Bowling ball will roll towards it.
00:51:19And that's exactly how the craft works.
00:51:20It creates a distortion right in front of it and the craft falls forward.
00:51:25So there's a different physics that we're...
00:51:27Well, the science that explains how the technology works.
00:51:30I mean, it's all encompassed as one thing, alien technology and science.
00:51:35What is the big picture?
00:51:37What are the, what is the takeaway of your story after you're gone?
00:51:42You're not a rebel kid with a, with a jet car at Los Alamos today.
00:51:47Today's a different Bob Lazar, right?
00:51:49Right.
00:51:50What have we learned?
00:51:51What's, what's the message of your story?
00:51:53The big thing is the suppression of extremely advanced technology and the suppression of
00:52:01unknown science.
00:52:02That's it.
00:52:03Those two things to me is the only thing that's important about what was going on out there.
00:52:12Yeah, there's another civilization.
00:52:15And like I've said before, that's a crime not to tell humanity about that, but that's
00:52:22a separate thing.
00:52:24Meaning that there is something different in science dramatically that we're not allowed
00:52:30to know?
00:52:31Right.
00:52:32Right.
00:52:33That is a true statement.
00:52:35Yeah, that's a true statement.
00:52:38The fact that there is another intelligent, technologically advanced civilization, we
00:52:43have some of their objects.
00:52:45That is really the pinnacle.
00:52:48That there is another civilization in existence that's intelligent that we know about.
00:52:55And we actually have artifacts from them that can operate.
00:53:00That can operate.
00:53:01So I mean, that's, that's a big, big deal.
00:53:05But in my mind, that's, there's a lot to deal with that.
00:53:10However, the science and the technology can change us dramatically.
00:53:16It can change the way the entire world operates, the economy, everything.
00:53:22So those stick out in my mind as being critically important.
00:53:28And we have it.
00:53:30Oh, we have them.
00:53:32You don't have to believe it, but we do.
00:53:36And you've seen it.
00:53:37I've seen it.
00:53:39And you've touched it.
00:53:41I've dismantled it.
00:53:47After you're exposed to it, just for a little while, it begins to settle in your mind that
00:53:51these are normal things.
00:53:52Okay, 115 belongs there on the chart and all these, this flies and this is how gravity
00:53:56works, great.
00:53:58Just like someone being from the 1800s being exposed to a car for a few days, he takes
00:54:03it for granted very quickly.
00:54:06The most shocking thing was when I actually got to look inside the disk, the seats in
00:54:12the panel associated with them were very small.
00:54:14They were, you know, perhaps that far off the ground, like something small.
00:54:17Now you, if we had made something like that, we wouldn't have made it to fit children.
00:54:23It was, uh, it just led me to believe with the size of the alien cadavers I saw, the
00:54:31size of the seats inside.
00:54:36Memory is a mirage and mistress to desire.
00:54:42Shapeshifting and ethereal.
00:54:45She's inherently elusive and malleable.
00:54:50We acknowledge her if it suits our fantasy.
00:54:53In the moment, we fear her because she is unpredictable.
00:54:57She's unpredictable.
00:55:00Can we trust her in memories?
00:55:02What if we can?
00:55:03What if we can?
00:55:04What if we can?
00:55:06Can we return to the scene of the crime to extract hidden details and to see more clearly
00:55:14what we thought we saw?
00:55:15I was told the rhythmic shouting and the constant threats.
00:55:21That's a form of hypnosis.
00:55:23When did they, when did this happen?
00:55:26Oh, this happened almost immediately.
00:55:28They started yelling and screaming at you?
00:55:30Yeah.
00:55:31Oh, on place to work?
00:55:35Well, no, like I said, it was a, it was a terrible atmosphere to work in, but when you
00:55:39weigh that with what you're going to be around and, uh, you know, you'll basically go through
00:55:45anything.
00:55:46Yeah.
00:55:46Let me go ahead.
00:55:47When can we get back to the flying saucers?
00:55:49So, uh,
00:55:51you did hypnosis to try to recall details from your employment and from the physics.
00:55:59Right.
00:56:00Of what you learned.
00:56:01Is that correct?
00:56:03Yeah, that's correct.
00:56:03With Lane Keck.
00:56:04Okay.
00:56:06Okay.
00:56:07And did you recall anything?
00:56:10Yeah, I did.
00:56:10I mean, specifics, things you might, might've missed.
00:56:13I basically wanted to try everything I could to prove what I was saying.
00:56:17So this is just another tool.
00:56:19You're, you were familiar that hypnosis can work.
00:56:22Yeah.
00:56:22To recall.
00:56:23Yeah. And I, I had had it done to me before.
00:56:26So I had proven that, yeah, this really does do something.
00:56:29Let's try and remember some fine details or.
00:56:34You wanted to recall some physics that you learned there.
00:56:37Yeah. I wanted, I wanted to recall as much as I possibly could.
00:56:40I mean, so much went through my mind.
00:56:42Just imagine all the things you were seeing and everyone is completely fascinating and
00:56:49something you haven't seen before.
00:56:51It's just data overload.
00:56:53So I was hoping that hypnosis would get me relaxed enough where maybe everything was
00:56:59packed so tight together.
00:57:00Maybe I could just start thumbing through things and just pick up even a couple little
00:57:06more tidbits could paint a bigger picture.
00:57:08And I could, you know, possibly explain things better or, you know, possibly locate some
00:57:15of these other guys or anything, any bit of information.
00:57:19So yeah.
00:57:20And it was pretty handy.
00:57:22So you did recall some things technically.
00:57:25Yeah.
00:57:25Technical things and probably others too.
00:57:31More and more hypnosis is accepted.
00:57:35However, there's still a lot of misconceptions about it.
00:57:39Like what?
00:57:41Oh, they think that you go into a trance and the hypnotist does something and you don't
00:57:47remember it and all of a sudden your life changes.
00:57:50And that's not the case at all.
00:57:52There's no mind control happening.
00:57:57Take a nice deep breath.
00:58:01And just think relaxation.
00:58:07Now just think about your head and relax your head.
00:58:15Now what I want you to do is to get as comfortable as you possibly can and just relax completely.
00:58:24Now double your relaxation and the number 100 will be there.
00:58:30One, zero, zero.
00:58:33Double your relaxation and the number 99 will come right on in.
00:58:42Bob, Bob, from this moment on, from this moment on, you will recall and remember the material
00:58:53that you seek and no one or nothing, past, present, or future will stand in your way.
00:59:02Bob, Bob, Bob, you will remember because you desire to remember, to remember, to remember.
00:59:18At one point, he was in hypnosis, I think it was drawing a reactor.
00:59:33He was trying to recall what was in the book.
00:59:35He saw it in the book and then I told him, well, you'll come up and open your eyes and
00:59:42you'll be able to draw.
00:59:44And he did, but it didn't mean anything to him.
00:59:48But it was a drawing that he drew this way.
00:59:56Oh, no way.
00:59:57But it was this way.
00:59:59And so afterwards, he looked at it and he, you know, came back over and sat down here
01:00:05for a while and, oh, that's because all he had to do is turn it.
01:00:09So that's the super conscious and literal.
01:00:13The subconscious takes things literal.
01:00:15Right.
01:00:15Like it's like the mind is absorbing all this stuff and then he discovers what his
01:00:19mind had absorbed.
01:00:20He's remembering.
01:00:21Yeah, I was writing so fast.
01:00:24I can't imagine what you were thinking too, because you're discovering with them that
01:00:30kind of shock.
01:00:32What's the truth?
01:00:34Hypnosis is the best possible tool of getting to the truth.
01:00:38If a person makes things up normally, they can lie under hypnosis just as easily as out
01:00:44of hypnosis.
01:00:45But if they're really trying to get to and retrieve information, then it's the best
01:00:51tool that I know of.
01:00:56He came in to find out what he didn't know.
01:00:59We were able to go back, overcome the fear and bring forth those memories.
01:01:08According to Lazar, his employer was the United States Navy.
01:01:12He says he and other government employees would gather near EG&G, fly to Groom Lake,
01:01:16and then a very few people would get into a bus with blacked out or no windows and drive
01:01:21to S4.
01:01:21When you get off the bus, what do you see?
01:01:24Very interesting building.
01:01:25It's got a slope of probably about 30 degrees, which are hangar doors.
01:01:33And it has textured paint on it, but it looks like sand.
01:01:38It's made to look like the side of the mountain that it's in, whether it's to disguise it
01:01:41from satellite photographs or what.
01:01:43He says he was never told exactly what he'd be working on, but figured it had something
01:01:47to do with advanced propulsion.
01:01:49On his first day, he was told to read a series of briefings and immediately realized how
01:01:53advanced the propulsion was.
01:01:55The power source is an antimatter reactor.
01:01:59They run gravity amplifiers.
01:02:01There's actually two parts to the drive mechanism.
01:02:06It's a bizarre technology.
01:02:07There's no physical hookup between any of the systems in there.
01:02:13They use gravity as a wave, using wave guides, almost like microwaves.
01:02:17Polygrapher Terry Tavernetti runs a corporate security operation and is a former Los Angeles
01:02:22police officer.
01:02:23He put Lazard through four tests and concluded there was no attempt to deceive.
01:02:28And I left there thinking that I feel we do have some credibility to what the subject
01:02:34had to say.
01:02:36And that's when I went to some of my colleagues.
01:02:38Tavernetti sent the test results to a third polygrapher who agreed the results appeared
01:02:42truthful.
01:02:45Bob has explained to me multiple times he tried everything in his power to prove his
01:02:50story.
01:02:50I wanted to feel better for myself.
01:02:53So I said, hey, would you be willing to undergo a polygraph test?
01:02:56He did not hesitate.
01:02:57Four different tests on four different areas of Bob's claims.
01:03:02And he said afterward, there is no attempt to deceive at all.
01:03:05He's telling what he believes to be the truth.
01:03:08I have asked the question many times over the years, how did Bob Lazard know this stuff
01:03:12if he wasn't there?
01:03:13He knew there was a place called S-4.
01:03:15I had called Nellis Air Force Base public information office.
01:03:18They confirmed for me there really was a place called S-4.
01:03:21Now, there's no news story prior to Bob Lazard about any place called S-4.
01:03:25He knew about it.
01:03:26He also knew that EG&G had arranged to hire personnel that if you were going to get a
01:03:33job at a group like EG&G was the company that you would go through.
01:03:36He knew that there had been investigators at his home for the background check.
01:03:41He remembered the guy's name.
01:03:42It was an odd name, Mike Thigpen.
01:03:44And how did he know?
01:03:46How did he know that Mike Thigpen works for a federal agency that does this stuff?
01:03:50After 30 years and this guy dodging you, I found Mike Thigpen.
01:03:56I found Thigpen.
01:03:57That's amazing.
01:03:57I couldn't believe it.
01:03:59He's on the East Coast.
01:04:01I called him.
01:04:01I've talked with him multiple times.
01:04:03You know, he won't go on camera because he doesn't want to kind of put a dark shadow
01:04:08upon the work that he did before.
01:04:09But personally, he conveyed to me that that was his job.
01:04:14That was exactly what he did in Las Vegas in 1989.
01:04:19And in fact, he remembers Bob Lazard.
01:04:21The most important thing Bob knew is that they were flying something that looks exactly
01:04:26like a flying saucer over Papoose Lake.
01:04:28And they flew them on Wednesday nights.
01:04:31And he took people out there three weeks in a row and showed it to them.
01:04:35And at least once, maybe twice, they recorded it on video.
01:04:39That's real.
01:04:40How did Bob know that?
01:04:41There have been no stories about test flights of flying saucers at Papoose Lake.
01:04:45And by the way, that's where it was.
01:04:47It wasn't over Groom Lake.
01:04:48It was over Papoose Lake.
01:04:50We checked out so many details that Bob had told us that turned out to be true.
01:04:55The existence of S4, element 115, really did become an element years later that Bob had
01:05:01been consulted by the lab, which first synthesized man-made element 115.
01:05:07There was a whole long string of things that he knew that checked out.
01:05:12These milestones along the way, no matter how much we nitpick it apart, no matter how
01:05:17much people don't want to believe it, the evidence that he's telling the truth outweighs
01:05:21the evidence that he's not.
01:05:23Well, I agree with you.
01:05:24And if I did not believe that, I would not still be working on the story.
01:05:28I would not be publicly defending Bob Lazar.
01:05:37What was your function of working on this?
01:05:39You were doing what?
01:05:41What was your job?
01:05:43We were to reverse engineer the power and propulsion system of this craft and see if
01:05:51it can be duplicated with available materials.
01:05:56I just want to go over with you what it is that you saw to draw it out for people, to
01:06:03make a sketch.
01:06:04As you're seeing it, as if you're there at that moment, you kind of go back in the
01:06:08past.
01:06:09It's the thing I termed the sport model.
01:06:13Underneath this floor, there are three, three large cylindrical devices.
01:06:23These are on mounts that allow them to completely swivel up to 180 degrees and in 360 degree
01:06:30rotation.
01:06:31Directly above each one is a small rectangular object.
01:06:37This is on the floor above.
01:06:40And these are the gravity amplifiers themselves.
01:06:44Looking down from the top, you'd have the center.
01:06:51In the very center, there is a small reactor.
01:06:56There is a small reactor.
01:07:00Surrounding this in three equally spaced areas are the amplifiers.
01:07:08So this is looking at it sideways.
01:07:09This is looking at it down from the top.
01:07:11And under these amplifiers, underneath the floor below, are the gravity emitters.
01:07:19So it's the reactor here powering the gravity amplifiers.
01:07:23Gravity amplifiers output goes into the gravity emitters at the bottom.
01:07:29And the resulting gravity beam or anti-gravity wave can be pretty much put anywhere you want
01:07:37to.
01:07:40There was another level up here.
01:07:42Now, I had access and was permitted to view and look at the operation of this main level
01:07:48with the gravity amplifiers and the level below the gravity emitters.
01:07:55There is a level above which consisted of these two areas that I'm not all that familiar
01:08:03with.
01:08:04I assume these to be some sort of navigational engine.
01:08:12People call these large black rectangular areas on the top portholes.
01:08:16I believe they were some planar sensor array that just took in information from the surrounding
01:08:23area, whether it be patterns of stars or what have you.
01:08:29And there was their version of a computer or something to make determinations here that
01:08:34takes input from those sensors and then let the craft know how to orient itself and where
01:08:40it was in space.
01:08:42So that's what I assume to be up there.
01:08:45I don't know for a fact.
01:08:46Again, that was not part of my job and I was only led to believe that.
01:08:52The center antenna is really an extension of the reactor in the center.
01:08:57And that's a waveguide, which allows the emission of the gravity wave, which forms
01:09:04kind of a heart shape over the whole craft.
01:09:09That's how it creates its distortion.
01:09:11These gravity emitters can be swung all the way up to 180 degrees.
01:09:20And this allows the craft to essentially stand on two of them and hover, while this one swings
01:09:28up and creates a distortion in front of it, allowing the craft to slide forward.
01:09:33So that's how their low power mode Omicron configuration operate.
01:09:41The Delta configuration uses all three.
01:09:44And unlike science fiction movies, where you see flying saucers just flying along like
01:09:50that, they actually fly belly first.
01:09:52The craft flies along, leaves the atmosphere of the planet, it turns its belly to the destination,
01:09:59the three amplifiers focus in on the destination, and that's how it proceeds.
01:10:04So that's basically the operation of it and overall how things were laid out inside the
01:10:09craft.
01:10:10This is an alien spacecraft.
01:10:13Right, right, obviously.
01:11:03This was the Albuquerque Journal.
01:11:10Is that your particle accelerator you have?
01:11:11Yeah.
01:11:12The guy that promised not to say anything.
01:11:14I won't say anything about the UFOs.
01:11:18The article is titled...
01:11:20UFO guy in spotlight.
01:11:24Thanks, dude.
01:11:25Isn't that when, after this came in there, then the fire department, police, the zoning
01:11:31commission, everybody descended on our hands.
01:11:33Yeah, I wanted to know.
01:11:34Here's lab supplier and controversy.
01:11:39I don't think it's that.
01:11:40So originally the thing was supposed to be about what?
01:11:43What did the guy say the article was?
01:11:45The hydrogen car, I think.
01:11:46Well, the raid.
01:11:47It was about the raid.
01:11:50This one?
01:11:51Yeah, that's why lab supplier and controversy.
01:11:53Yeah.
01:11:54The raid in New Mexico.
01:11:57And the guy called, you know, he said, hey, I heard about the raid and all that, can I...
01:12:01I mean, you know, do that.
01:12:03And then he says, are you Bob Lazar, Area 51 guy?
01:12:06I said, yeah, but I don't want to get into that.
01:12:11This is something more important.
01:12:12He said, oh, yeah, we don't even mention it.
01:12:14No problem.
01:12:15Literally your house was taken over by a SWAT team.
01:12:19Yeah.
01:12:19Yes.
01:12:20Don't just send a letter in the mail or call us.
01:12:23Right.
01:12:24Have the whole SWAT team invite themselves to our home.
01:12:31Hidden things are the most seductive.
01:12:34Secrets reach deep into our desire.
01:12:38They titillate and torment us like a ticking clock or a distant alarm with no origin.
01:12:45They agitate us and force us to react.
01:12:48They endanger our complacency.
01:12:52There is a missing element to your faith, but that's the nature of faith.
01:12:57That there is something out there that offers the promise of salvation.
01:13:01Salvation.
01:13:03Your call has been forwarded to an automated voice messaging system.
01:13:07At the tone, please record your message.
01:13:11Hey, Jeremy, it's Bob Lazar.
01:13:14Listen, I have something to ask you.
01:13:16Something's really come up that's important.
01:13:20If you would text me and let me know when is a good time to call you.
01:13:25I don't want you to call me.
01:13:27I just need to run something by you.
01:13:30Okay.
01:13:30Thanks.
01:13:30Bye.
01:13:38All right.
01:13:39So the only record of this is going to be on the audio on this one file and then this video clip.
01:13:46I'm not going to cut it.
01:13:46I'm going to let it run.
01:13:47Understood.
01:13:48Okay.
01:13:48Then what I'm going to do is I'm going to encrypt it and I'm going to put both of those
01:13:52two files into an encrypted thing to not be touched unless we decide it should be touched.
01:13:57That's fine.
01:13:58Okay.
01:13:58It'll be on two drives, but that those two files will both be in an encrypted folder.
01:14:04So here's the deal.
01:14:12Did you ever get a piece of element 115 out of Los Alamos?
01:14:19I don't know how much monitoring they do with me.
01:14:22I'm sure it's virtually none after all this time.
01:14:25Hold on one second.
01:14:26Let me, um, do you have your phone on you?
01:14:29Yes.
01:14:29Um, let's at this point, uh, take our phone.
01:14:32Let me just throw them.
01:14:33Let me put them in the ground over there.
01:14:34I'll turn mine off.
01:14:42I mean, maybe this has been kept from us for a good reason.
01:14:45A lot of people agreed to keep the secret.
01:14:48So first of all, who am I to upset it?
01:14:51And second of all, who am I to outthink these guys?
01:14:54Maybe they went over all these scenarios already and they know how fucked up everything will be.
01:15:00So there's no guarantee that this revelation is going to make everything great.
01:15:04There's just as much chance it's going to make everything terrible.
01:15:07And I'll be to blame for that.
01:15:15They identified themselves as FBI and, um, they, uh,
01:15:20said here, Bob was all right.
01:15:21And then, you know, one of them got on the radio saying, yeah, he's here.
01:15:26Apparently they also had my house staked out and they were deciding whether or not to go there.
01:15:34The conveyor belt of vehicles and agents and police did not stop.
01:15:42The whole thing was like a twilight zone episode.
01:15:46They came in and then they said, there'll be a few other people coming here.
01:15:48Just got a couple questions to ask you.
01:15:51In a short time, the street filled up with vehicles and the building completely filled
01:15:57with agents.
01:15:58It was really something else.
01:16:00Did they identify themselves initially as FBI?
01:16:03Yeah, FBI identified themselves.
01:16:05Then came in state police and a few other agencies.
01:16:10I don't remember who, but, um, there were a lot.
01:16:15A lot.
01:16:16Standing room only in the building.
01:16:18It was, it was crazy.
01:16:19Yeah.
01:16:20They had like a forensic truck.
01:16:21They had a bunch of different agents.
01:16:22They gridded off the building.
01:16:24I mean, obviously they're, they're looking for something.
01:16:27Yeah.
01:16:28Yeah.
01:16:29And what they said, they were looking for some paperwork, an old order from two years ago
01:16:34about a customer that, uh, you know, ordered some potentially toxic material,
01:16:40which they could have called for.
01:16:44But, uh, this was certainly way over the top.
01:16:47I looked up to select the right key and they were right beside me.
01:16:52It was quite surprising considering you could see all around here and there would
01:16:57generally have to be a vehicle or something somewhere, but I just pulled up, got out,
01:17:01picked the key and then they started talking from behind me.
01:17:05I thought that was really strange.
01:17:07Of course, it got much stranger as the day went on.
01:17:10What, what got stranger about it?
01:17:11Well, just the sheer amount of people that came, agency after agency.
01:17:19I mean, they had computer experts here going through, you know, all the computer equipment
01:17:24we had here.
01:17:24They had people sectioning off the building, labeling it in cubic meters so they can search
01:17:31each one.
01:17:32You know, what they were looking for was just an ordered one.
01:17:36So very strange.
01:17:41So,
01:18:00You've been raided two times?
01:18:03Twice by more agencies than I can really recall.
01:18:06The FDA, the NRC, the FBI, but they usually come in mass and it's hard to pick out who's
01:18:15who.
01:18:17So this is beryllium?
01:18:19Yeah.
01:18:21And what is it used for again?
01:18:23It's used in aerospace.
01:18:24It's very lightweight, quite strong and high temperature metal.
01:18:34Do you think that you were shaken down to some degree or being fucked with?
01:18:38I don't think they're just fucking with me.
01:18:40I'm convinced there's ulterior motives.
01:18:43I firmly suspect that there's a lot more to it than they're saying, that they're looking
01:18:50for something else.
01:18:56What they're supposed to do is tie you up, put you in the middle of the room, have everyone
01:19:02watching you so that you can't, you know, collaborate a story or, you know, try to trick
01:19:07them or whatnot.
01:19:08So they just kept us all in separate rooms.
01:19:11There's bomb squad, computer squad, I think they have like a biological hazard squad,
01:19:17hazmat squad.
01:19:18Everybody made the full gamut because they had no idea what we had in our shop or like
01:19:24what we're capable of or are we going to retaliate or anything like that.
01:19:27So it was pretty much like the full Michigan FBI was here.
01:19:30I mean, they had the van, they had multiple cars lined up, you know, so.
01:19:35I mean, in looking at Bob's life, there's always the suspicion that there's something
01:19:40more going on on shaking him down because he had that experience before.
01:19:45Yeah.
01:19:45So this is the second time that I know of that he's gotten raided.
01:19:49So he's always had like this kind of knowledge that there's somebody watching, no matter
01:19:53what he does, there's always somebody watching you.
01:19:56And it does have to be related to the Area 51 stuff and all that, you know, to kind of
01:20:01put him on a list.
01:20:02I think they do like toying with him and keeping an eye on him.
01:20:04But I don't believe that it's like they're opening up a 30-year-old file and they're
01:20:09like, all right, we're going to crack down on the Bob story.
01:20:11We're going to find out what he has, what information he's got.
01:20:13I don't think that they're necessarily doing that.
01:20:15But I do think that there's like a culture maybe within these agencies of they know who
01:20:19this guy is and they'll have, you know, they'll look for any reason that they can to kind
01:20:24of, you know, poke him with some thorns and make sure that he knows, you know, who's
01:20:28watching him.
01:20:29I, I believe that.
01:20:30It's too coincidental for it all to be just, you know, you know, just some luck of the
01:20:36draw, basically.
01:20:36Like there's, there's something going on.
01:20:42Everybody knows the story is that you got some element 115 out of Los Alamos that that's
01:20:47public knowledge.
01:20:49Something you said a while back.
01:20:51Do you think that what happened had to do with that?
01:20:54Where did I go in there?
01:21:03Are they trying to shake you down to find the 115 that you said 30 years ago that you
01:21:10got out of the lab?
01:21:11People are going to ask that.
01:21:12So let's just address that.
01:21:15If you feel comfortable addressing it.
01:21:18No.
01:21:18Do you not feel comfortable addressing that?
01:21:20No, I don't feel comfortable addressing.
01:21:28You would think after 30 years, who cares what I have to say?
01:21:32I'm more convinced than ever that the key to the story is element 115.
01:21:52If you could get to that piece and have it independently analyzed, I think it would prove
01:21:58beyond all question that it came from somewhere else.
01:22:01We didn't make it.
01:22:02And it would go a long way toward establishing the story that was told by Bob Lazar as truth.
01:22:07So I think about that a lot.
01:22:08I think about the cloud chamber experiment.
01:22:11I get a lot of emails from people who say, oh, God, where's this video?
01:22:14You owe it to the world to show this video, cough it up.
01:22:17And I tell them, look, I've looked for it.
01:22:19I've got all these boxes of crap and stuff and tape and news clippings.
01:22:24And I've looked for it and I can't find it.
01:22:26But when somebody like you comes and talks to me about the Bob Lazar story, it gets the
01:22:31juices flowing here.
01:22:33You know, I can't help it.
01:22:33I'm human.
01:22:34And and and right now I want to go find that tape.
01:22:39I went through every tape that Bob had in his personal home archive.
01:22:43And one of those tapes on the outside in tiny, tiny little scribble said cloud chamber.
01:22:49And lo and behold, there's about just less than a minute of that cloud chamber test on
01:22:57tape.
01:22:58I have it.
01:22:59People have been so pissed at me over the years.
01:23:01I can't find that tape or they think I'm hiding it on purpose, but I've looked everywhere
01:23:05for it.
01:23:05And if you found it, that's awesome.
01:23:08I did.
01:23:08Now, here's the deal.
01:23:09In typical Bob Lazar fashion, there's only about a minute of it.
01:23:14However, after all these years, 30 years, we have some footage of it, but it doesn't
01:23:19prove shit because it's recorded.
01:23:22I was there the night that they did the cloud chamber test.
01:23:25I could tell you what it was.
01:23:27I didn't know what a cloud chamber was.
01:23:28This beam of light was bent and it was bent because they had an element 115 in as part
01:23:35of the experiment.
01:23:36I said, well, that's pretty important.
01:23:37That would be huge to include in the story.
01:23:40I spent time trying to understand why everybody was saying this 115 being stabilized is pseudoscience.
01:23:46So I called some of the top heavy element physicists on the planet from Russia to up
01:23:52in San Francisco to Washington, D.C.
01:23:55And I spoke with about eight or nine, but three in particular who would really talk
01:24:00to me in depth about it, all of them across the board said, you cannot rule out a stabilized
01:24:07version of element 115.
01:24:10In fact, that we believe it is theorized that in the island of stability that it would and
01:24:16could and probably does exist.
01:24:18So their way of saying it is we can't rule it out.
01:24:21So all these people saying that is pseudoscience.
01:24:24What Bob said about element 115, I wanted to find out, is it pseudoscience?
01:24:28And definitively, we cannot rule out a stabilized form of element 115.
01:24:33I'm sorry.
01:24:34It is not pseudoscience.
01:24:36And after doing this research, you know, that that argument no longer holds water.
01:24:41Makes perfect sense that it could be stable.
01:24:44And scientists have said it for a long time.
01:24:47So, of course, you can't rule it out.
01:24:49Again, if you want to disbelieve Bob, if you want to cross him off the list and say he's
01:24:55a fraud, then you your research goes one inch deep and you say element 115, as he described
01:25:02it, can't exist and then move on.
01:25:05If you want to be honest about it and dig further into it and understand it, then you're
01:25:11going to find out that, in fact, what Bob says does make sense.
01:25:15It can be true.
01:25:18Element 115 was what we would call the fuel that provided the power for the reactor to
01:25:30work.
01:25:31What happens with gravity and 115?
01:25:34Element 115 affects gravity.
01:25:36Element 115 produces its own gravitational energy.
01:25:41It had a very specific manufacturing technique.
01:25:44I don't really know how that information came to be.
01:25:50Its code name was LA-1000.
01:25:56That's what it was referred to off site.
01:25:59Its purpose was supposed to be, again, this is just a code and deception, was supposed
01:26:07to be an advanced armor.
01:26:10So it's an unusual material.
01:26:12So now we can take it to a national lab.
01:26:15This is LA-1000 classified material.
01:26:18It's a very advanced armor that takes care of all weird questions.
01:26:22So you immediately start operating on lies.
01:26:26This fuel is in the form of just a three-dimensional thin triangle, little rounded edges.
01:26:42It's somewhat copper in color, you know, that reddish brownish.
01:26:50The way this is manufactured is really critical.
01:26:53It's not just cut out of a heavy sheet of material.
01:26:58A cylinder of this material is taken.
01:27:04This is machined into a cone.
01:27:09So this is the outer part is shaved off using a lathe or something like that until you have
01:27:16a three-dimensional cone.
01:27:19Once you have the cone, it's sliced like this.
01:27:31And these slices become that.
01:27:35Now, even this starting piece, a solid cylinder, is not even a solid cylinder.
01:27:42It consists of many disks stacked up.
01:27:50And these are fused together to produce that.
01:27:53And all of these steps are necessary to produce a successful triangle that brings fuel.
01:27:59So actually, you know, if you were to look at how this came to be, this would actually
01:28:03be pieces of all these disks that were cut at unusual angles.
01:28:12Now, apparently, if you don't do all this, that doesn't work.
01:28:15So unfortunately, that's the extent of my knowledge on this.
01:28:20This makes no sense anywhere.
01:28:24But that's what it takes for it to operate.
01:28:27Now, with the alien technology that was present in the craft, it takes that basis,
01:28:35that extra gravitational energy, in a small reactor, amplifies it through the equipment
01:28:43there, directs it through the wave guides and archways into the emitters, and allows
01:28:51it to propel the craft and manipulate the gravity wave for whatever use they want.
01:29:02How can this be true?
01:29:04I don't believe a word of this, but do you expect people to believe this?
01:29:08No, I'm not going to change anyone's mind.
01:29:09That's not my intention.
01:29:10I'm just relaying the experience, the job that I went through.
01:29:16It is a fantastic thing.
01:29:17It's a fantastic story.
01:29:19But it's true.
01:29:20It's true.
01:29:20These crafts came from another, not just another planet, another solar system entirely,
01:29:26extremely far away.
01:29:28And they're here.
01:29:39I mean, I've been making fireworks since I was 12, and professional fireworks for at
01:29:45least 20 years.
01:29:46Fireworks are just fun.
01:29:47They're artistic.
01:29:49It's like painting the sky.
01:29:51Controlling a large amount of energy has always been impressive.
01:29:56Since the New York Times story broke, since Lou Elizondo came forward, since those videos
01:30:01went public, the world is now talking about UFOs in a more serious vein.
01:30:07I think that's a good thing.
01:30:08And I think it reflects positively on Bob Lazar's story.
01:30:12And I hope that the world will take another look at it.
01:30:15And thus the jet bike, the jet car.
01:30:20Yeah, to take, you know, a large amount of energy, which would normally be thought to
01:30:24be out of control, to take that and harness it and have it do what you want has always
01:30:30been impressive to me.
01:30:31The easy way out is to say he's a liar.
01:30:34He's making it up.
01:30:36It's hard to go ahead and accept the possibility that he's telling the truth.
01:30:40If I did not believe it, if I thought for a moment that he was lying about it, I'd be
01:30:47done with it.
01:30:48I wouldn't still be supporting it 30 years later.
01:30:52Your life has been under a microscope.
01:30:55Every word you said for 30 years recorded has been under a microscope.
01:30:58And that's affected you.
01:31:00Yeah, of course it is.
01:31:00It could affect anybody.
01:31:02How has it affected you?
01:31:04In the way I talk and how much I do.
01:31:06I'd rather not, you know, in a public forum, I'd rather just not say anything.
01:31:11Why do you think people are so obsessed with every word that you say about your experiences?
01:31:17You know, they're just looking for a way to look for an inaccuracy and to be able to
01:31:23discount the whole thing.
01:31:24Oh, he said this one time and said it slightly different this time.
01:31:27You know, obviously he's making it up.
01:31:29No, that's just the first word that entered my mind.
01:31:32You know, I don't put that much thought into it.
01:31:35When I'm saying it.
01:31:39Look, as much as a lot of people hate it, this stuff really happened.
01:31:45I mean, if it bothers you, that's too bad.
01:31:48I think that's just hard for people to accept.
01:31:50I mean, so...
01:31:51Yeah, it would be...
01:31:52Look, I fully understand.
01:31:53I would feel the same way.
01:31:55I'm not sure I would believe my story.
01:31:57Boy, there's not enough evidence, you know, but I couldn't discount it either.
01:32:02The fact is the people that know him best believe him the most.
01:32:06I hope that one thing that comes across in your film is the real Bob.
01:32:11Once you get to know him, it becomes much more plausible as a story.
01:32:16He's not lying to his mom and his wife and all his friends.
01:32:20He's not lying to the UFO world either.
01:32:23You saw alien ships.
01:32:24Yeah.
01:32:25You worked on a gravity wave amplification system trying to figure it out.
01:32:29Right, a propulsion system and a power source that's completely unknown to mankind.
01:32:34And there's no way human beings could have made it.
01:32:36There is no way human beings could have made it under any circumstances in any country,
01:32:40anywhere, period.
01:32:42And for 30 years, you are telling us the truth.
01:32:45You bet.
01:32:46This shit happened.
01:32:47You got it.
01:32:48You know, the fact is that that raid that happened in Michigan,
01:32:52that's a very dramatic and very important development.
01:32:56They weren't there looking for records about some customer he had a couple of years ago.
01:33:01They were looking for 115.
01:33:03When you bring two dozen agents and investigators and crime lab analysis,
01:33:08and you can bring people to duplicate the whole computers and all that stuff,
01:33:13they're looking for something else.
01:33:16Sure as hell are not looking for a minor receipt.
01:33:21People may not believe that 115 is real, but somebody does,
01:33:24because that's what they came to look for.
01:33:27You know, if you want to cross it off and you don't want to believe it, fine.
01:33:31I don't care anymore whether people believe it or not.
01:33:33But Bob's telling the truth.
01:33:35And once you realize that, it changes everything for you.
01:33:39It changed everything for me.
01:33:47To crack a life open and it seems to defect to examine its content is unnerving.
01:33:54Like the reading of omens by viewing the entrails.
01:34:00We all tell our own stories.
01:34:03Sometimes we even believe them.
01:34:05And sometimes we tell them one last time.
01:34:11If you don't believe it, that's your problem.
01:34:17What you do with that is up to you.
01:34:25Well, I am telling the truth.
01:34:30I've tried to prove that what's going on up there could be the most important event in history.
01:34:37You're talking about contact, physical contact and proof from another system,
01:34:44another planet, another intelligence.
01:34:46That's got to be the biggest event in history, period.
01:34:50And it's real.
01:34:51And it's real and it's there.
01:34:53And I had an extremely small part in it.
01:34:56But I'm convinced that what I saw is absolute proof of that.
01:35:00There is there is no way we could have created those systems.
01:35:03There's no way we could have made the disks, the power supplies, anything to go with.
01:35:08Lazar says he has no intention of going on any UFO lecture circuit.
01:35:12He's not looking to do any additional interviews.
01:35:15In fact, he wasn't too crazy about doing this one.
01:35:17He did it after certain unfavorable things started happening in his life.
01:35:21And he did it because he feels that whoever is running the show up at S4
01:35:24is perpetrating a fraud on the American people and on the scientific community.
01:35:29We intend to have much more about this story, about the operation up there on Monday and beyond.
01:35:34This is by no means the end of this series of reports.
01:35:37In fact, on Monday, including in our story there,
01:35:39support testimony from other people who say they have knowledge of the flying disks at the test
01:35:44site and information from people who know Lazar very well and insist his story is true.
01:35:49If indeed they have these flying saucers, George,
01:35:52it seems like it would be really hard to keep it such a secret.
01:35:54Well, yeah, it would seem that way.
01:35:56Except for as Lazar asked his superiors up there,
01:35:59they say it's the easiest secret in the world to keep.
01:36:01It's leaked out many times before and nobody believes it.
01:36:05What's the Navy saying about all of this?
01:36:07Of course, the Navy is supposed to have been his employer.
01:36:10And we have put some fairly pointed questions to them.
01:36:13Of course, number one, it may not be the Navy at all.
01:36:15Information is so compartmentalized up there.
01:36:17No one is exactly sure who is in charge.
01:36:20We have put the questions to several Navy departments.
01:36:23The answers thus far have been unsatisfactory.
01:36:25We've applied for more information through the Freedom of Information Act,
01:36:29and that information will be revealed on Monday as well.
01:36:32You believe his story, don't you?
01:36:33Yeah, I do.
01:36:34Yeah, I've gotten to know him pretty well over the last couple of months,
01:36:37and I believe he's telling the truth.
01:36:40Fascinating stuff.
01:36:41Thank you, George.

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