Taiwan Is Not Ready To Further Develop Nuclear Power
Taiwan is on track to fully decommission its last nuclear power plant by 2025, as part of the government‘s nuclear-free homeland policy.
On this episode of Zoom In Zoom Out, TaiwanPlus reporter Herel Hughes sits down with Professor Wen-Ling Tu, director of the Research Institute for Democracy, Society and Emerging Technology (DSET) and dean of the International College of Innovation at National Chengchi University. We first zoom in on the facts of nuclear power in Taiwan, then zoom out to understand why nuclear policies are so controversial.
On this episode of Zoom In Zoom Out, TaiwanPlus reporter Herel Hughes sits down with Professor Wen-Ling Tu, director of the Research Institute for Democracy, Society and Emerging Technology (DSET) and dean of the International College of Innovation at National Chengchi University. We first zoom in on the facts of nuclear power in Taiwan, then zoom out to understand why nuclear policies are so controversial.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Welcome to Zoom In Zoom Out, your global look at news from Taiwan.
00:16I'm Harrell Hughes.
00:18Taiwan is in the process of decommissioning its last nuclear power plant as part of the
00:22government's nuclear-free homeland policy.
00:24It will be fully offline by 2025.
00:28What does this mean for Taiwan moving forward?
00:31To dig deeper into nuclear energy in Taiwan, we're joined today by Dr. Thu Nguyen-Ling,
00:35the Director of the Research Institute for Democracy, Society, and Emerging Technology,
00:41and the Dean of International College of Innovation at National Chengchi University.
00:44Dr. Thu, welcome to the show.
00:47Thank you for having me here.
00:49So first, let's zoom in on nuclear energy and the science behind it.
00:53Very simply, how does nuclear power work as an energy source?
00:56How is the energy made?
00:58The principle of nuclear power plant is to use nuclear fission reaction to generate heat,
01:06which is converted to the electrical energy.
01:08First, it's a nuclear fission reaction, and then heat exchange, and then driving the turbine
01:15and electricity generation.
01:18And finally, it's a cooling and recycling.
01:22So basically, it's the same as the thermal power plants, that they both use fuel to generate
01:28the high-temperature, high-pressure steam, which they use to drive turbine and the generators
01:34to produce electricity.
01:36So talking about the dangerous part of this is because the uranium, they have a side effect
01:43of radiation.
01:45And are there any additional costs we should consider in terms of this?
01:48The operation site is not only for the power generation.
01:55You still need to consider the nuclear waste storage.
02:00And in Taiwan, that takes a long time to make that which site will be appropriate for the
02:07nuclear waste.
02:09The problem is that because it's open storage, I mean, the Kansas site is open in the indigenous
02:16territory, traditional territory.
02:19So it's making it harder.
02:21Would you say that the indigenous areas are fully aware that there is nuclear waste in
02:26the area?
02:27OK, so far, we only have one low-level radioactive waste site, which is in Lanyu, the Okie Island.
02:37It's also within the indigenous community.
02:41So people there are aware of the nuclear waste because they also receive the compensation
02:47from Taipower.
02:48The government officially offered the apology to the Lanyu people because at the beginning,
02:55they told the locals it's a fish can factory instead of the nuclear waste storage.
03:03And then, over the years, of course, people realized it's not a fish can factory.
03:09It's a nuclear waste factory storage site.
03:11But still, they want the government to make a promise to remove the nuclear waste out
03:17of Lanyu.
03:18Has that happened?
03:19The site is still in operation.
03:23I think the biggest problem is that they need to find the final disposal site so they can
03:30remove the nuclear waste out of the Lanyu.
03:34So given these risks, how would you classify nuclear energy?
03:37Is it green?
03:38Is it clean, renewable?
03:40I think you can classify nuclear energy from different perspectives.
03:45For example, from the kind of carbon emission perspective, the carbon neutrality perspective,
03:53it can be classified as clean energy by some kind of financial company.
03:58So with the symbol of clean energy, they can provide some kind of financial support.
04:05And I think it's very important after the Ukraine war, because the natural gas has been
04:10cut down.
04:11People are looking for the alternative energy, you know, to support the electricity generation
04:18as well as the battle against the climate change.
04:22By thinking about the life cycle of the nuclear power plants, you know, from the mining, the
04:28uranium to the final disposal, it's probably not clean at all, because you still need to
04:35find the final disposal site, which can guarantee the safety of the nuclear waste, the leakage
04:41of the nuclear radiation.
04:44So it has been very difficult to find this kind of site, the permanent site for the nuclear
04:50waste.
04:51Do you mind just explaining the difference between what is considered clean energy versus
04:55green energy versus renewable energy?
04:58The renewable energy, in general, is like the solar panel, the solar energy, the wind
05:05energy or, you know, like a geothermal, that kind of renewable.
05:09It's not, you know, like kind of burning the coal or, you know, like making pollution.
05:14When we talk about the clean energy, I would say maybe two factors.
05:18One is the carbon emission.
05:20And the other thing is that if they cause any, you know, that kind of air pollution.
05:26Is nuclear a viable option when pursuing net zero policies?
05:30I would say, you know, probably not the conventional nuclear power plants, because now we already
05:37have two nuclear power plants in the decommissioning stage.
05:42The third nuclear power plant, which is in Kenting, is going to be decommissioning this
05:48month and next year.
05:50So I would say if that's the policy, we probably need to think about, you know, like if we
05:57have the same amount of money, should we put in the, you know, kind of renewable energy,
06:03you know, which probably would be more sustainable or more kind of beneficial to Taiwan?
06:10Or should we, you know, like keep on, you know, conventional nuclear power plants?
06:15Yeah.
06:16So I think that's the choice that we need to make.
06:19Okay, so now that we have the facts, we want to move on to how nuclear power is received
06:23by people in Taiwanese society.
06:25We'll be back with Dr. Tu in the studio in a moment.
06:28But first, let's see how people in Taiwan view nuclear power.
06:31I think the whole world has had a major rethink of nuclear power in the wake of several existential
06:53threats, the biggest one of which is climate change.
06:57And we know that nuclear energy is zero carbon.
07:27So, as we just saw, there's a wide range of knowledge and opinions on nuclear power
07:46in Taiwan.
07:47So back to our conversation with Dr. Tu, let's zoom out and talk about how Taiwanese society
07:52stands on nuclear.
07:54In your opinion, how do people view nuclear energy here?
07:57Okay, I think it really depends on what kind of information they receive.
08:02And you know, when there is a kind of big events such as Fukushima incident or Chernobyl,
08:10of course, people will be much aware, you know, what kind of consequence the nuclear
08:17power may bring.
08:19Because another narrative will be provided that nuclear power is a kind of a stable energy
08:27provide the power abundance.
08:29So I think there's always a different kind of public opinion or public perception on
08:36the nuclear power.
08:38Why is nuclear so controversial and polarized in Taiwan?
08:43Because there's a kind of long time anti-nuclear power, anti-nuclear movement, but it's also
08:52supported by the democratic movement of Taiwan.
08:56Because at that time, it's been the time lifting of martial law and people can, you know, express
09:02their concern.
09:04And the second one is the nuclear waste siting issue.
09:09Because as I say, you know, Taiwan is a very small country with a density of the people
09:15and a lot of earthquake, of course.
09:18We do not only need to consider about the engineering part itself, but also, you know,
09:25thinking about the geology, hydrology, you know, public health, all kinds of signs involved
09:33in the nuclear power operation and then the nuclear waste siting issues.
09:40And I know this summer, there have been several power outages on Xiaoliuqiu and in other areas
09:45of Taiwan.
09:46So do you expect public opinion to change on nuclear power because of that?
09:50I think we need to clarify that, you know, sometimes the power shortage or, you know,
09:57the outbreak of the power is not because we don't have enough power, but because we don't
10:02have the good structure of the power grid.
10:05So sometimes, you know, this kind of infrastructure cause the power outbreak.
10:11But you know, people just don't know what's the relationship between the power shortage
10:17and the power generation.
10:18We cannot only focus on the power generation, but also need to focus on, you know, the power
10:26distribution, power generation, and this also about the resilience of the power grid we have.
10:35And how has the government been acting on these public opinions?
10:38For example, the nuclear-free homeland policy?
10:42I would say nuclear-free homeland policy is based on the third nuclear power plant decommissioning,
10:49the timing of the third nuclear power plant decommissioning time.
10:54So I think it's also, you know, that when government initiated this policy, it also
11:01responds to kind of reality, you know, like Taiwan, the overall power generation in Taiwan,
11:07and also in response to the Fukushima incident.
11:12What is the current state of nuclear energy in Taiwan compared to other energy sources?
11:17Okay.
11:18You know, I have data from 2023, which is last year.
11:24The renewable energy account for about that 10%, and the nuclear energy is about the 7%.
11:31So the renewable energy already surpassed the nuclear energy.
11:36While we have the power from gas is around like 44%, and from the whole thermal plants
11:45is around like 34%.
11:47The renewable energy share is expected to reach 27% to 30% by 2030.
11:55That's the Taipower company power development plan.
11:59That's good to know.
12:00Well, that was going to be my next question was about net zero.
12:03Okay.
12:04So you mentioned that Taiwan is hoping to achieve net zero by 2050.
12:08Does Taiwan need nuclear energy to achieve that?
12:11I just like to show a chart developed by National Development Council, which shows
12:17the nuclear power play no role in our 2050 net zero, the future.
12:25So in this chart, you can see in 2050, the renewable energy will count for 60% to 70%,
12:34while the hydrogen will account for 9% to 12%.
12:39And gas NCCUS is around 20% to 27%.
12:44So in this part, you don't see the nuclear power is, you know, in our future energy conversation.
12:53And can that change at all?
12:55Of course, you know, that everything may change.
12:57And also, you know, that when we talk about the nuclear power, in general, we were thinking
13:05about conventional nuclear power plant, which, you know, Taiwan has, but now a lot of people,
13:10you know, talking about the kind of new generation of nuclear power, for example, in South Korea,
13:17they already have that kind of industry, you know, that kind of very proud and confident
13:23in exporting those kind of technology to the other countries.
13:27Taiwan does not have that kind of industrial base, you know, to export.
13:32So we can only import nuclear power plants or nuclear energy, you know, to the island.
13:40So we probably can think about, you know, what is the comparative advantage for Taiwan,
13:46for example, the wind power, which we already, you know, built up the supply chain, have
13:51a kind of a stronger supply chain in Taiwan.
13:55And probably we can, you know, use our, you know, advantage, industrial advantage to advance
14:01the certain type of technology for our energy generation.
14:04I just want to say thank you so much for joining us today.
14:07It was really great to hear your thoughts on the show.
14:10And thank you for having me here again.
14:14This has been Zoom In Zoom Out.
14:15For more stories from Taiwan Plus, follow us on social media.
14:18Thank you and see you next time.
14:21Transcribed by https://otter.ai
14:51Transcribed by https://otter.ai