Ted Cruz And Maria Cantwell Repeatedly Square Off During Major Senate Commerce Committee Markup

4 months ago

The Senate Commerce, Science, and Technology Committee held a markup hearing.

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Transcript

00:00:00order. Today the committee will consider 33 bills as well as nominations in this

00:00:04committee's jurisdiction. One of the main thrusts this morning is executive session

00:00:10on artificial intelligence and we have eight bipartisan bills on AI and I want

00:00:15to thank Senators Young, Moran, Blackburn, Wicker, Thune, Klobuchar, Hickenlooper,

00:00:20Lujan, and Sinema. We have seen a continuous increase in AI from

00:00:25breakthrough neural network advances and algorithms and growing computing power.

00:00:31I'm proud that the Pacific Northwest and its research institutions like the Allen

00:00:36Institute have been key leaders in this particular area. In the United States AI

00:00:42may increase annual GDP growth by 1.2 trillion to 3.8 trillion dollars per

00:00:49decade or even more. But China and other countries are investing hundreds of

00:00:54billions of dollars and taking action to gain economic and national security

00:00:58advantage from AI. The United States, the private sector, leads the way on this

00:01:04technology. Congress should build good strong public-private partnership

00:01:10collaboration to drive innovation even further. As policymakers we must make

00:01:14sure that emerging technologies work as intended and reliable in order to scale

00:01:19up this deployment. One of the bills on this morning's agenda, the Future of AI

00:01:25Innovation Act, builds on legislation that my colleague Senator Young and I

00:01:30originally introduced in 2020 and was passed into law. This Future of AI

00:01:35Innovation Act for 2024 builds on that continued support for competitiveness in

00:01:41the United States. It does not include any new requirement on companies but it

00:01:47does create a new federal cooperation aimed at helping more public-private

00:01:52collaboration. The AI Safety Institute is a specialized unit within NIST. It

00:01:58develops voluntary guidelines, rigorous tests for advanced AI models, and

00:02:03measurement science to ensure reliability. It convenes leading private

00:02:09sector and government experts to promote the development of voluntary standards.

00:02:14We need to keep going and not cede ground to foreign adversaries. The United

00:02:20Kingdom, Japan, Canada, Singapore, Kenya, European Union have all established

00:02:25similar safety institutes on these issues and the United States I believe

00:02:30should lead on reliability and transparency. Targeting the

00:02:37help here is essential also for safety. I would like to enter into the record as

00:02:44unanimous consent a letter by Americans for Responsible Innovation, more than 40

00:02:49companies and organizations calling for the authorization of the AI Safety

00:02:53Institute. Objection. The Thun-Klobuchar Artificial Intelligence Research and

00:03:00Innovation Act, also on the agenda, establishes a framework to promote

00:03:03greater structural transparency and risk management in the development of the

00:03:07highest AI impact implications. This is important provisions that will help

00:03:13identify major risk factors related to critical infrastructure. This is

00:03:19critically important. It also establishes a process for coming up with standards

00:03:25for provenance. While the U.S. government must support and deploy the

00:03:29reliability in AI, there is also a massive need for STEM talent and

00:03:34virtually every future job will involve AI. So I certainly appreciate the

00:03:40Thun-Klobuchar legislation on this matter. There's also the need for

00:03:46additional test beds at our national laboratories, AI models to create

00:03:49materials for advanced manufacturing, and to make new scientific discoveries to

00:03:54benefit the U.S. In addition, the Warner-Blackburn bill is promoting

00:04:00leadership in these standards and increasing public sector participation

00:04:04in that NIST process and appreciate their contribution. The Hickenlooper

00:04:08Capito Validation and Evaluation of Trustworthy Artificial Intelligence Act,

00:04:12which directs NIST to develop voluntary specifications and guidelines and

00:04:16assurances for AI. The Luhan-Thun Test AI Act, which would formally authorize a

00:04:23NIST DOE pilot program on AI test beds. The Young-Schatz Artificial Intelligence

00:04:29Public Awareness and Education Act, which would establish a public awareness

00:04:33campaign about the benefits and risks of AI. The Cantwell-Moran National Science

00:04:39Foundation Artificial Intelligence Education Act to help NIST award

00:04:44undergraduate and graduate scholarships in AI and quantum hybrid computing

00:04:50because the centers of AI excellence at our community colleges and important

00:04:55issues need a trained and skilled AI educational workforce. And the Cantwell-

00:05:01Moran Small Business AI Training Act expands access to training for small

00:05:06businesses so they can use AI to access capital and small business and achieving

00:05:10new export and government contracts. I also would like to enter into the record

00:05:15a letter that is supportive of this legislation from Intuit. The last of

00:05:24these bills, the Heinrich Young Creative AI Act, would authorize the National

00:05:28Science Foundation and AI research to broaden U.S. research access to

00:05:33computational data and software and other resources to fully participate on

00:05:38research and development. Under these bills, developers and deployers of AI and

00:05:43the federal government and agencies, schools, and universities must apply with

00:05:47existing requirements. I urge the committee to act on these bills and to

00:05:52bolster the competitiveness of our public-private sector partnership for

00:05:57decades to come. There are numerous other bills on the mark up today and I want to

00:06:02thank our colleagues for that. I'll have more to say about those legislation,

00:06:08those pieces of legislation, as we move through the process and at the end of

00:06:13the hearing. I'll now turn it over to my colleague, the ranking member, Senator

00:06:17Cruz. Thank you, Madam Chair. Earlier this month at the committee's hearing on

00:06:23artificial intelligence and privacy, I described two roads diverging ahead of

00:06:28our nation. Down one path, the European model of government technocrats

00:06:34micromanaging AI businesses and industry. Down the other, entrepreneurial freedom

00:06:41and technological innovation. At the dawn of the tech age and at the inception of

00:06:47the Internet, the United States chose the road less traveled and that has made

00:06:53all the difference. It enabled the tech boom that led to America's economy

00:07:00eclipsing the EU's by nearly 50 percent within just three decades. This success

00:07:08and prosperity owes itself to entrepreneurs, their willingness to take

00:07:15risks to try to change the world. Essential to their success has been an

00:07:20American government that recognized the individual's freedom to innovate and to

00:07:25take those risks. At the hearing, I warned of this administration's

00:07:31executive actions, led then by Vice President Kamala Harris, and legislative

00:07:37proposals on AI that risk deviating from that historically proven path. Sadly, at

00:07:45today's markup, the committee fulfills that prophecy as it takes the first

00:07:50steps following the Europeans to heavy-handed AI regulation. Private

00:07:57individuals developed this amazing product, all without the government's

00:08:02help. Today we hear, without a trace of irony, that American AI can only be

00:08:09successful now with the government's help. I think it's worth reflecting on

00:08:15how we got to this point. Some very wealthy and very well-connected AI

00:08:20entrepreneurs and their corporate allies hype up AI inventions as uniquely

00:08:26powerful and dangerous. Of course, these existential dangers are all theoretical.

00:08:33We've never actually seen such damage from AI. Nevertheless, these companies

00:08:39say they need to be saved from themselves by the government because

00:08:45their products are so unsafe. Next, these companies systematically place

00:08:52former employees inside the government, both the executive branch and the

00:08:58Congress, to write frameworks and bills about how to, quote-unquote,

00:09:04responsibly use their products. Then these companies dutifully applaud the

00:09:10government and the lawmakers for creating a new bureaucracy that will

00:09:15stop these powerful risky tools from spreading disinformation, promoting bias,

00:09:19accelerating climate change, and even the entire annihilation of the human race.

00:09:27Big tech and big government get together to protect us rubes who can't be

00:09:33trusted. In reality, what is happening here is a tale as old as time.

00:09:41Regulatory capture. The biggest impact of overly broad AI regulation, predicated on

00:09:50an absurd exaggeration that would make Arthur C. Clarke and Isaac Asimov

00:09:56laugh, will be the riches bestowed on the consultant and contractor class.

00:10:04Congress will have unwittingly, or more to the point, wittingly, protected giant,

00:10:11powerful, incumbent companies from competition while simultaneously driving

00:10:17real innovation across the Pacific to China. China right now is actively

00:10:24working to get ahead of the United States through any means necessary in

00:10:29the race to develop AI and other critical emerging technologies. Just this

00:10:34week, the New York Times showcased how open source AI is being used in China to

00:10:39catch up to the U.S. China also influences international

00:10:44standard-setting organizations to get ahead, a problem that Senators Warner and

00:10:49Blackburn seek to address through a sensible bill that we will consider

00:10:53today, the Promoting U.S. Leadership and Standards Act. But China is just as

00:10:58happy to sit back and let the U.S. Congress do the work of handicapping the

00:11:05American AI industry for it. To avoid the U.S. losing this race with China before

00:11:12it has even hardly begun, Congress should ensure that AI legislation is

00:11:17incremental and targeted. There are likely some risks with AI that we can

00:11:23guard against now, such as cybersecurity vulnerabilities or a problem targeted by

00:11:29a bill introduced by Senator Klobuchar and myself called the Take It Down Act.

00:11:35Our bill targets bad actors who use AI to create and publish fake, lifelike,

00:11:42explicit images of real people. The Take It Down Act, which has a bipartisan group

00:11:49of 16 co-sponsors, would also require big tech to follow a notice-and-take-down

00:11:54process so that ordinary Americans who are victimized by these disturbing and

00:12:01non-consensual images can get them offline immediately. This bill is a

00:12:08tailored solution to a real problem, unlike many of the other AI-related

00:12:14bills on today's markup. The committee will consider several other important

00:12:19bills today as well. One such bill is my Illegal Red Snapper Enforcement Act,

00:12:24co-sponsored by Senators Tuberville and Britt. The bill would address a problem Gulf

00:12:30State fishermen face, cartel-backed Mexican gangs poaching lucrative red

00:12:37snapper in American waters and then exporting their illegal catch to unwitting U.S.

00:12:43consumers. Our bill would require the development of new testing methods for law

00:12:48enforcement to identify and crack down on poached red snapper. This sensible

00:12:53legislation will help protect the livelihoods of law-abiding Texas fishermen.

00:13:00Turning to Chair Cantwell's National Landslide Preparedness Reauthorization Act,

00:13:05I would like to thank the Chair for incorporating my amendments to improve water

00:13:10observing systems at the U.S. Geological Survey. Texans and others across the country

00:13:17rely on water observation from USGS to protect communities from flood and drought,

00:13:24both of which lead to slope destabilization and landslides. Even now, communities and

00:13:30farmers in South Texas are facing a devastating drought. The stream flow information my

00:13:36amendment requires will help predict and prepare for both droughts and landslides.

00:13:44I very much hope that we will have another markup when we return from August recess because

00:13:49there's a lot more work to be done. While I was pleased to see the Senate just approve

00:13:54Senator Blackburn's Kids Online Safety Act, a major step forward, we still need to go further.

00:14:01Many states have begun blocking children from accessing social media, especially at school.

00:14:07Senator Schatz and I have a simple common-sense bill called the Kids Off Social Media Act

00:14:13that parents are demanding and that demands consideration by this committee,

00:14:19bipartisan support, and passage into law. Thank you. Thank you. And I'll now turn to Senator

00:14:26Klobuchar. Oh, wait. Nope. Well, yeah, that's right. Turn to her for a motion. Okay. I move that

00:14:34S-4178, the Future of Artificial Intelligence Innovation Act of 2024, as amended by the

00:14:42Cantwell Young Substitute, as modified by Bud 1, Bud 2 as modified, Bud 3, Cruz 4, Cruz 5,

00:14:55Schatz 3, Schatz 4 as modified, Schatz 6, and Young 1 be favorably reported. Is there a second?

00:15:04Second. Any discussion?

00:15:11Madam Chair. Yes. Do you want a roll call on this? I want to call up a minute.

00:15:20Madam Chair, I would call up Cruz 1.

00:15:34Would you give us the bill number, please? 4178.

00:15:47Go ahead, Senator Cruz. Madam Chair, I call up Cruz 1, the No Environmental Assessments in AI

00:15:52to the Cantwell Substitute. When President Biden announced his massive 110 plus AI executive order

00:16:00last year, he called on the federal government to mobilize on regulating AI. And arguably,

00:16:07at the center of Biden's plan was the National Institute of Technology's NIST being charged with

00:16:14guiding all other federal agencies and private industry in developing standards by which to

00:16:20regulate AI. When NIST released their latest AI risk management framework for generative AI this

00:16:27year, the harms and and quote, unquote, risks listed were extraordinary, quote, misinformation,

00:16:37quote, environmental impacts and, quote, amplification and exacerbation of historical,

00:16:44societal and systemic biases. This bill takes the authorities and directions that Biden gave to NIST

00:16:53and codifies a radical AI safety institute run by White House political officials and members

00:17:01of big tech and gives it the authority to make this, quote, risk management framework

00:17:08the standard for regulating AI. And there should be little doubt that environmental

00:17:14impact assessments would be required for developers and deployers of AI.

00:17:20They'll be audited on it, required to certify it, and regulated by international climate agreements.

00:17:28If agencies adopt this risk management framework, all AI products will be subject to an environmental

00:17:36impact assessments. It's not hard to imagine any use of AI being subjected to NEPA.

00:17:44We're in a race against China to develop AI, and the administration and radical

00:17:49activists want to slow down AI development and drive up the cost of innovation.

00:17:55If we want to lose the race with China, setting up environmental impact assessments for every

00:18:02single innovation is a really certain way to surrender to China and give up U.S. leadership.

00:18:09We cannot allow that to happen, and so this amendment is straightforward.

00:18:14It prohibits environmental impact assessments or climate change analyses

00:18:18from being forcefully applied to AI decision making or development.

00:18:24Speaking against the amendment, my colleague, I think, hopes that the government doesn't

00:18:31overreach here, but in reality, it is exactly what has helped us grow the innovation economy.

00:18:39When you think about what we came together on in the internet in setting standards that allowed

00:18:46various language models to propel us into the internet we know today, government standard

00:18:52setting done in collaboration with the private sector is the main reason why we lead in innovation

00:18:58today. In fact, approximately 93% of global trade is affected by standards and these regulations and

00:19:06impacts trillions of dollars. So what we're doing here today is trying to create a fair,

00:19:13safe, and competitive business environment, and as I introduced in a letter, it's pretty hard to get

00:19:19public knowledge and palantir on the same letter, but yet they do agree, as does other research

00:19:26institutions. So I'd ask my colleagues to turn down this amendment.

00:19:33I'd ask for a roll call then. Clerk will call the roll. Ms. Klobuchar. No. Mr. Schatz. No. Mr. Markey.

00:19:45No by proxy. Mr. Peters. No. Ms. Baldwin. No. Ms. Duckworth. No. Mr. Tester. No. Ms. Sinema.

00:19:57Ms. Rosen. No. Mr. Lujan. No by proxy. Mr. Hickenlooper. No by proxy. Mr. Warnock. No. Mr. Welch.

00:20:08Mr. Cruz. Aye. Mr. Thune. Aye by proxy. Mr. Wicker. Aye. Mrs. Fisher. Aye. Mr. Moran. Aye. Mr. Sullivan. Aye.

00:20:24Mrs. Blackburn. Aye by proxy. Mr. Young. Aye. Mr. Budd. Aye. Mr. Schmidt. Aye. Mr. Vance.

00:20:41We don't have a vote. Skip. Next. Mrs. Capito. Aye.

00:20:45Mrs. Capito. Aye. Mrs. Lummis. Aye.

00:20:54Mr. Thune. Yes. Mr. Vance.

00:21:03He's not here. We don't have a proxy. Clerk will announce the result. Ms. Canwell. No.

00:21:10The noes are 14. The yeses are 12. It is not agreed to. Senator Cruz,

00:21:18did you want to offer something else? Yes, Madam Chair. I call up Cruz 3.

00:21:27Cruz 3 is designed to get rid of the Biden executive order on artificial intelligence. As

00:21:32I discussed in my opening remarks, there really is a choice of how to regulate. And in fact,

00:21:39I'm going to do something I don't often do, which is sing the praises of a Democrat president.

00:21:45Bill Clinton, during the Clinton administration, put in place an executive order

00:21:50that memorialized a very light touch on innovation with the growth of the internet.

00:21:56And it worked incredibly well. At the time, the United States economy and the EU's economy were

00:22:02almost exactly the same size. Because of the light touch on regulation, we saw incredible

00:22:09innovation in the United States. And in just three decades, we are now 50 percent larger,

00:22:15our economy than the EU's. Unfortunately, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris learned no lessons

00:22:23from that success. Instead, they looked at how the Europeans approach the Internet and said

00:22:29that was a dismal failure. Let's do the exact same thing here in the United States and let's

00:22:35hurt American jobs and innovation, just like the nanny state regulators in the EU have done in

00:22:41Europe. This executive order, if there is a new president, will be rescinded, I believe, on the

00:22:48first day of a Trump presidency. I would note that the Republican Party platform that was just

00:22:54adopted in Milwaukee explicitly calls for repealing or rescinding the Biden executive

00:23:02order designed to shackle the development of AI. And so I would urge the adoption of the amendment

00:23:10that rescinds that executive order. For my colleagues' information, other than this

00:23:16amendment, the executive order is not in any of the legislation before us today. So I understand

00:23:23the interest in somehow trying to debate the president on this issue. But the opportunity

00:23:29before us today is the collaboration by this body to continue on what we did in 2020 to push forward

00:23:39the administration to even think about AI that then became the NIAC and the discussion that

00:23:46we've had today on how to move forward as a government. I hope the administration is asking

00:23:53every agency to continue to work quickly and collaboratively to understand the risks and the

00:24:01threats to AI. I do think my colleague mentioned he wasn't sure that we were actually seeing

00:24:08these threats today, but we are seeing threats from AI today. We have people who are using your

00:24:14own personal information against you to raise prices, whether it's in the automobile sector

00:24:20looking at your insurance rates, or Uber who basically decided if your battery was low they

00:24:27were going to charge you a higher rate, or numerous other policies. So yes, I want the administration

00:24:34to move quickly and aggressively. So I would say that an administration that is pushing people to

00:24:43think about that critical infrastructure, work collaboratively across Homeland Security and many

00:24:47agencies, and I would say from my own personal interests, I want a faster response on weather.

00:24:55AI, every particle in a storm, is an algorithm. Every opportunity to now advance in fire season,

00:25:03in hurricane season, tornado season, more information, and getting the government to work

00:25:10quickly together to get us accurate forecast information so we can respond is critical. So

00:25:17I'd ask my colleagues to turn down this amendment. Yes, clerk will call the roll.

00:25:23Ms. Klobuchar? No. Mr. Schatz? No. Mr. Markey? No by proxy. Mr. Peters? No. Ms. Baldwin? No.

00:25:35Ms. Duckworth? No. Mr. Tester? No. Ms. Sinema? No. Ms. Rosen? No. Mr. Lujan? No by proxy.

00:25:46Mr. Hickenlooper? No by proxy. Mr. Warnock? No. Mr. Welch? No. Mr. Cruz? Aye. Mr. Thune? Aye.

00:25:56Mr. Wicker? Aye. Mrs. Fisher? Aye. Mr. Moran? Aye. Mr. Sullivan? Aye. Mrs. Blackburn? I don't

00:26:06by proxy. Mr. Young? Aye. Mr. Budd? It's it's Mr. Schmidt? Aye. Mr. Vance? Mrs. Capito? Aye.

00:26:23Ms. Lummis? Aye. Ms. Cantwell? No. The noes are 14, the yeses are 12.

00:26:31Madam Chair, I would not... The amendment is not agreed to. It was Senator Cruz.

00:26:39Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd now like to call up Cruz 10, the no international agreements without

00:26:46congressional approval. On October 30th of last year, the Biden administration announced a massive

00:26:52110-page AI executive order, one of the largest executive orders in history, and called on the

00:26:59entire federal government to mobilize on regulating AI, not just through our own government,

00:27:06but through international agreements. He directed the Commerce Secretary to coordinate with

00:27:11international allies to develop and adopt AI standards, to share resources for AI safety,

00:27:17and to develop common regulatory principles. The very next day, Vice President Kamala Harris flew

00:27:25to the Global AI Safety Summit in the United Kingdom and announced that she was establishing

00:27:31a U.S. AI Safety Institute at the Commerce Department to build upon Biden's EO and

00:27:38coordinate AI standards with other international AI safety institutes like the UK's. This year,

00:27:47the Commerce Department announced that it had entered into a non-binding agreement with the UK

00:27:52AI Safety Institute with almost zero public details of what was in that agreement.

00:28:00This bill expands this authority at our federal agencies and directs the Secretary of Energy

00:28:05and NIST to develop international AI standards to form alliances and coalitions and to coordinate

00:28:11regulations with international institutions. If Washington bureaucrats are going to backdoor

00:28:18the EU's regulations or tech policy into our federal agencies and the guidance they issue,

00:28:26at the very minimum, we should know about it and know what the hell they're doing.

00:28:30This amendment addresses this issue by prohibiting federal agencies from entering into these

00:28:36international agreements without notifying Congress. Now, based on the last couple of

00:28:41amendments, I assume we're going to see a party-line vote of Democrats voting no,

00:28:46and I would just underscore if you are voting no, you are voting for Congress to give away our

00:28:51authority and not even to know what is happening, but rather to empower bureaucrats to team up with

00:28:58foreign bureaucrats to destroy jobs in America. I would urge the adoption of my amendment.

00:29:06I think this amendment is a longer conversation about an actual treaty or agreement,

00:29:14but this is non-binding agreements that do not require approval. This is about whether the

00:29:22United States wants to try to advocate about policies that will help us win the day. In fact,

00:29:30I have called similar ideas a technology NATO. We should be evangelizing the best ideas about

00:29:38technology and AI, like no government back doors. We should be building a coalition with

00:29:44like-minded democracies and sophisticated technology countries like Japan or India

00:29:50and getting them to think on the same page as us. So I hope my colleagues will give the flexibility

00:29:55for us to continue to look at this, and if there is a major agreement, yes, I agree with you,

00:30:00Senator Cruz, it should come before, but let's not hinder right now the cooperation that will get the

00:30:06best ideas by Americans on the international stage. Madam Chair, if I could just give a quick

00:30:13clarification. What you just advocated for is exactly what this amendment does. This amendment

00:30:19does not prohibit international agreements. What it says, it's a very short amendment,

00:30:23it says if the head of a federal agency enters into any agreement, contract, or memorandum of

00:30:28understanding with respect to a policy relating to the oversight and regulation of artificial

00:30:33intelligence technology in the private sector with a foreign government, such agreement, contract,

00:30:38or memorandum of understanding shall not take effect until such agreement, contract, or memorandum is

00:30:45submitted to Congress and a joint resolution of approval is adopted by both the House of

00:30:49Representatives and the Senate approving such agreement, contract, or memorandum of understanding.

00:30:53If the United States and Japan today can enter into a MOU that basically says let's study test

00:31:04bed technology on next generation composite materials so the United States doesn't lose

00:31:10the race in aerospace and you want them to come up here to the United States Congress and get

00:31:15approval before they can get that agreement, I want competitiveness for our nation. I want products

00:31:21and services that are going to win the day and if some Department of Commerce agency can go craft

00:31:27that deal with somebody, I want them to do that. Clerk will call the roll. Miss Klobuchar? No.

00:31:35Mr. Schatz? No. Mr. Markey? No by proxy. Mr. Peters? No.

00:31:41Ms. Baldwin? No. Ms. Duckworth? No. Mr. Tester? No. Ms. Sinema? No. Ms. Rosen? No. Mr. Lujan? No by proxy.

00:31:55Mr. Hickenlooper? No by proxy. Mr. Warnock? No. Mr. Welch? No. Mr. Cruz? Aye. Mr. Thune? Aye.

00:32:07Mr. Wicker? Aye. Mrs. Fisher? Aye. Mr. Moran? Aye. Mr. Sullivan? Aye. Mrs. Blackburn? Aye by proxy. Mr. Young? No.

00:32:21Mr. Budd? Aye. Mr. Schmidt? Aye. Mr. Vance? Aye. Mrs. Capito? Aye.

00:32:30Mrs. Lomas? Aye. Mrs. Cantwell? No. The noes are 15, the yeses are 11.

00:32:39The motion is not agreed to. Any further discussion on this? If not, I turn to Senator Klobuchar.

00:32:48We should vote on my motion.

00:32:52I'm fine to do that. The motion. This bill?

00:32:54The pending motion. My pending motion for a vote. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed?

00:33:04Amendment is agreed to.

00:33:10Okay. Senator Cantwell, I have another motion. Senator Klobuchar. I move that S-4394,

00:33:19the National Science Foundation Artificial Intelligence Education Act of 2024, as amended

00:33:26by the Cantwell-Moran substitute, Budd 1 and Budd 2, Cruz 4 as modified, and Peter Schmidt 1,

00:33:35be favorably reported. Is there a second?

00:33:42Second. Is there discussion?

00:33:50Senator Klobuchar?

00:33:57All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? The motion is agreed to. I now turn to Senator Klobuchar.

00:34:05I move that S-2714, the Create AI Act of 2023, as modified by the Young substitute, and Cruz 6,

00:34:16be favorably reported. Is there a second?

00:34:24Second.

00:34:26Is there a second?

00:34:41Madam Chair, I have an amendment. Senator Cruz.

00:34:44Madam Chair, I want to call up Cruz 7, which is prohibiting taxpayer data in government AI

00:34:51research labs without their consent. Over the last year and a half, this committee has negotiated

00:34:56and pontificated about the importance of comprehensive data privacy bill to protect

00:35:01Americans' digital identity. Congress passed the TikTok ban to stop China from spying on

00:35:07Americans' phones, and another stopped data brokers from transferring Americans' sensitive

00:35:13data to foreign adversaries. Yet, when it comes to the government, tracking, transferring,

00:35:20and buying Americans' data, there's absolute silence. Under the Create AI Act, the government

00:35:27has given the authority to have all federal agencies transfer taxpayer data into a massive

00:35:33repository that they then share with each other to study, to track, and to regulate our citizens,

00:35:42while also giving unknown access for whatever study the government chooses,

00:35:48all without any Americans' consent. This amendment is straightforward. It says the government cannot

00:35:55transfer any American taxpayer data to be used in this new AI laboratory, the NAIRR,

00:36:03for agencies to share or researchers to study without the prior written consent of the individual

00:36:10to whom the data belongs. It also says the government cannot go and purchase data from

00:36:16data brokers, which we know it does, and use that data broker information to circumvent obtaining

00:36:23the data holder's consent. The individuals protesting Israel's war against Hamas...

00:36:32Never mind that.

00:36:37Speaking against the amendment, expanding the access of AI research will lead to innovative

00:36:42breakthroughs in medicine, and I look forward to the day that Senator Cruz joins myself and

00:36:49Congresswoman McMorris-Rogers in getting a real privacy bill that would prohibit the federal

00:36:54government and companies from selling your data without your authorization. But this is about

00:37:00allowing the NSF and NAIRR partnering with the National Institute of Health on biomedical data

00:37:07sets so healthcare-focused AI research can be done. The Creative AI Act provides that the data

00:37:14must be something that is publicly available and has anonymized the data sets so that it does not

00:37:21put privacy at risk, and consumers have already given their consent. This is an important issue,

00:37:28as my colleague has pointed out, but leaving us without this option right now would stifle the

00:37:33innovation that the very act is trying to enable. I ask my colleagues to oppose the amendment.

00:37:39Clerk will call the roll.

00:37:42Ms. Klobuchar? No.

00:37:45Mr. Schatz? No.

00:37:46Mr. Markey? No.

00:37:48Mr. Peters? No.

00:37:50Ms. Baldwin? No.

00:37:52Ms. Duckworth? No.

00:37:53Mr. Tester? No.

00:37:57Ms. Sinema? No.

00:38:00Ms. Rosen? No.

00:38:03Mr. Lujan? No by proxy.

00:38:09Mr. Hickenlooper? No.

00:38:12Mr. Warnock? No.

00:38:14Mr. Welch? No.

00:38:17Mr. Cruz? Aye.

00:38:19Mr. Thune? Aye.

00:38:21Mr. Wicker? Aye.

00:38:24Mrs. Fisher? Aye.

00:38:26Mr. Moran? Aye.

00:38:27Mr. Sullivan? Aye.

00:38:29Mrs. Blackburn? Aye.

00:38:33Mr. Young? No.

00:38:35Mr. Budd?

00:38:39Mr. Schmidt?

00:38:43Mr. Vance?

00:38:46Mrs. Capito? Aye.

00:38:49Ms. Salamis? Aye.

00:38:51Ms. Cantwell? No.

00:38:54The noes are 14, the yeses are 12.

00:38:57Motion not agreed to.

00:38:59Senator Klobuchar.

00:39:00Senator Cantwell, I move that S-4769,

00:39:04the validation and evaluation for the trustworthy artificial.

00:39:11You want to vote on the underlying?

00:39:15Underlying bill.

00:39:17Roll call vote on the underlying.

00:39:19Bill, my past motion.

00:39:214769.

00:39:22Nope, it's the one before that.

00:39:242714.

00:39:29A roll call has been requested on 2714.

00:39:33Thank you.

00:39:34Clerk will call the roll.

00:39:36Ms. Klobuchar? Aye.

00:39:39Mr. Schatz? Aye.

00:39:41Mr. Markey? Aye.

00:39:43Mr. Peters? Aye.

00:39:45Ms. Baldwin? Aye.

00:39:47Ms. Duckworth? Aye.

00:39:49Mr. Tester? Aye.

00:39:51Ms. Sinema? Aye.

00:39:53Ms. Rosen? Aye.

00:39:56Mr. Lujan? Aye by proxy.

00:39:59Mr. Hickenlooper? Aye.

00:40:01Mr. Warnock? Aye.

00:40:02Mr. Welch? Aye.

00:40:04Mr. Cruz? No.

00:40:06Mr. Thune? Yes.

00:40:10Mr. Wicker? Aye.

00:40:13Mrs. Fisher? No.

00:40:15Mr. Moran? Aye.

00:40:17Mr. Sullivan? No.

00:40:20Mrs. Blackburn? Yes.

00:40:23Mr. Young? Aye.

00:40:26Mr. Budd? No.

00:40:28Mr. Schmidt? No.

00:40:30Mr. Vance?

00:40:32Mrs. Capito? Aye.

00:40:36Ms. Lummis? No.

00:40:38Ms. Cantwell? Aye.

00:40:41The ayes are 19, the noes are 7.

00:40:43The motion is agreed to.

00:40:45Senator Cantwell, I now move that S4769,

00:40:48the validation and evaluation

00:40:50for the Trustworthy Artificial Intelligence Act,

00:40:53as amended by Cruz 1, Cruz 3, Cruz 4, Cruz 6,

00:40:58Hickenlooper 1, Hickenlooper 2,

00:41:00and Hickenlooper 3 be favorably reported.

00:41:05Is there a second? Second.

00:41:10Is there discussion?

00:41:14Markey, are you going to do an amendment?

00:41:19Yes, Madam Chair, I have an amendment.

00:41:23Markey, amendment number one.

00:41:29Senator Markey, would you like to call up the amendment?

00:41:33Yes, Madam Chair, I ask amendment number one.

00:41:38Thank you, Madam Chair.

00:41:42AI has a Dickensian quality.

00:41:45It's the best of technology

00:41:48and it's the worst of technologies simultaneously.

00:41:52It can enable, it can ennoble,

00:41:55it can make tremendous breakthroughs,

00:41:59but it can also degrade.

00:42:02It can also debase.

00:42:04It can also undermine other goals

00:42:07which our society needs to achieve.

00:42:11We'll write it down.

00:42:12And one of those issues that is not being addressed today

00:42:19is that while AI can help to meet environmental challenges,

00:42:28while it can help to ensure

00:42:31that we have more efficiently cooled buildings,

00:42:36that it can help us to respond to natural disasters,

00:42:41but at the same time,

00:42:42we know that AI is going to ultimately demand

00:42:46a huge amount of our electricity

00:42:52while also requiring significant quantities of water

00:42:56to actually cool the data centers

00:43:01that are being constructed all across our country.

00:43:07One recent report found that a chat GPT query

00:43:14requires nearly 10 times as much electricity

00:43:17as a Google search.

00:43:2010 times as much electricity.

00:43:22Chat GPT as opposed to a Google search.

00:43:26So who says that this is going to be big?

00:43:30Sam Altman, the CEO of OpenAI.

00:43:34He said that we would need a, quote,

00:43:36energy breakthrough

00:43:38if we're going to feed AI's growing energy appetite.

00:43:43So my amendment takes a first step

00:43:46towards understanding how AI might change our energy usage.

00:43:52It would, one, direct NIST to convene a consortium

00:43:57to create standards to measure the energy

00:44:00and environmental impacts of artificial intelligence.

00:44:05Two, to create a voluntary impact reporting program

00:44:09for AI developers.

00:44:12And three, help us understand the effects

00:44:17of AI's energy and environmental impacts.

00:44:22So let me be clear.

00:44:24This amendment requires no regulations.

00:44:28It poses no requirements on companies.

00:44:31It is simply about measuring and understanding

00:44:36for our country's long-term environmental well-being

00:44:40what the benefits and costs of AI

00:44:43to our energy and environmental systems will be.

00:44:48As AI becomes more widely adopted,

00:44:51this transparency will be vital

00:44:53for maintaining a stable electricity grid.

00:44:57And managing very scarce water supplies in our country.

00:45:03So this bill has broad support

00:45:06in both the AI and environmental communities,

00:45:09including endorsements from Salesforce,

00:45:12the AI company Hugging Face,

00:45:16the Green Software Foundation,

00:45:18and Sierra Club, amongst many, many others.

00:45:22The amendment represents a consensus position

00:45:25and a sensible next step

00:45:27just to understand the emerging issue

00:45:30of AI's energy and environmental impacts.

00:45:35I urge my colleagues to vote aye.

00:45:39And I would like to hear the discussion.

00:45:45And I might be persuaded to withdraw it at this time,

00:45:48but I think it's an important discussion for us to have.

00:45:52We all know it's there.

00:45:54It's the elephant in the room,

00:45:56the environmental impact of AI on our society.

00:45:59So with that, Madam Chair, I yield back.

00:46:03Madam Chair?

00:46:05I can't see who's...

00:46:07Oh, Senator Hickenlooper.

00:46:09Thank you.

00:46:10And I want to make sure that we recognize

00:46:14that we agree that we have to be mindful

00:46:17of the harmful impact to our environment from everywhere,

00:46:19and certainly including AI.

00:46:21I'm shuttling back and forth

00:46:24between the Energy and Natural Resources Committee,

00:46:27where we're taking a step forward today

00:46:31on a bipartisan package to improve permitting

00:46:34for various energy projects,

00:46:36speeding up the review and citing of transmission lines

00:46:40to transfer energy where it's needed as the most,

00:46:44and make sure that our grid stays reliable and resilient,

00:46:48help address the needs of AI

00:46:52and the needs of climate change.

00:46:54We are going to need to have a lot more energy

00:46:56going in a lot of different directions.

00:46:58Certainly support the intent of Senator Markey

00:47:01with this amendment,

00:47:02but we can't support the amendment at this time.

00:47:04The bill requires a study led by the EPA

00:47:07to examine the impacts of AI on the environment.

00:47:09While the AI Environmental Impacts Act

00:47:12has been referred to this committee,

00:47:14I think we need to build further consensus

00:47:16before we pass amendments for agencies

00:47:18outside Commerce Committee's jurisdiction at this moment.

00:47:22Additionally, many of the bills we're considering today

00:47:24have been bipartisan,

00:47:26and we're committed to working with Senator Markey

00:47:30to help build a bipartisan consensus

00:47:32on the issues his AI Environmental Impacts Act focuses on.

00:47:35Lastly, the Department of Energy,

00:47:37another agency outside our primary jurisdiction,

00:47:40is already looking at the impact of AI

00:47:43on our electric grid.

00:47:44Just yesterday, the Secretary of Energy's Advisory Board

00:47:47gave recommendations to Secretary Granholm,

00:47:51A, to mitigate the potential impact from peak demand

00:47:54for energy driven by AI and data centers,

00:47:58B, to task DOE's industrial efficiency

00:48:02decarbonization office

00:48:03with benchmarking current data center energy use

00:48:06and establish that data,

00:48:09and then also establishing communication channels

00:48:11between the tech center and the power suppliers.

00:48:15We certainly appreciate very much Senator Markey

00:48:19for his leadership on such a broad range of issues,

00:48:22and especially in including the environment.

00:48:25I hope we can continue working going forward,

00:48:28but I cannot support this amendment at this time,

00:48:31and certainly I encourage my...

00:48:33Would the Senator yield?

00:48:35Senator Markey.

00:48:35I yield.

00:48:36No, thank you, Madam Chair.

00:48:38In 2005, in the House,

00:48:43on the Energy and Commerce Committee,

00:48:46I made an amendment, a very simple amendment.

00:48:49As more and more Americans had their computer

00:48:53in their workspace at home or at the office,

00:48:58I had a very simple amendment,

00:49:00and it was directing the computer industry

00:49:05to figure out a way

00:49:07for when Americans had their screensaver on overnight

00:49:12with the picture of their favorite things up there,

00:49:15that they just reduced the energy,

00:49:19the electricity consumption by 30%,

00:49:22because they were like vampire devices

00:49:25just consuming electricity

00:49:26just to keep that screensaver up.

00:49:29So we had a debate just like this in the committee,

00:49:33and it passed.

00:49:34Now, the leadership then got some calls,

00:49:38and in the Rules Committee in the House,

00:49:39they took my amendment out

00:49:40even though I had one in committee,

00:49:42because everyone knew there was a problem,

00:49:44because the industry can't have it both ways.

00:49:47They can't say, oh my God, look at AI.

00:49:51It can find the cure for cancer,

00:49:54and then when we turn and say,

00:49:55well, can you make the device more energy efficient?

00:50:00They go, oh, you don't know what you're asking.

00:50:01That's so complicated.

00:50:04And so again, year after year,

00:50:06more and more coal-burning plants had to be constructed

00:50:10so we could have screensavers on overnight.

00:50:13And all of us right now, every night,

00:50:16we've got this device plugged in,

00:50:17that device plugged in, that device plugged in.

00:50:20That's the addition to our grid over the last 20 years.

00:50:23It's all those things being plugged in,

00:50:24and AI is just gonna add to that problem.

00:50:28So if we're gonna discuss this,

00:50:30if we're gonna discuss this subject,

00:50:33we have to discuss that incredible impact

00:50:37it's gonna have on our environment,

00:50:38because all that oil or gas or coal

00:50:42that's gonna be burnt,

00:50:43it's gonna create more disease in our society.

00:50:46It's gonna cause more storms

00:50:49that are gonna hit state after state.

00:50:52So I realize I don't have the votes right now,

00:50:56but I will say that we can't avoid this issue.

00:50:59This industry just can't sit over here

00:51:02touting all the wonderful things that AI is gonna do

00:51:06and not deal with the obvious, obvious side effects

00:51:11that it has.

00:51:11And by the way, they're building many of these facilities

00:51:15in very vulnerable areas.

00:51:18They're going to places that are very close

00:51:21to where those environmental sacrifice wards

00:51:24in cities all across the country have always been.

00:51:28So we have to deal with it,

00:51:30because we know those fumes are gonna be going up

00:51:32in those same neighborhoods to generate the electricity

00:51:34that then will be fueling the AI revolution.

00:51:37And one of the goals I know in your legislation

00:51:41is to further NISC AI risk management framework.

00:51:47And I think if there's a risk,

00:51:49it is a risk of climate change.

00:51:51It's a risk of families being nearer

00:51:54these new permitted, perhaps natural gas facilities

00:52:00that are gonna have environmental consequences.

00:52:02So I just wanted to raise the issue

00:52:04that people know that we can't avoid it.

00:52:06It's coming and it's gonna be our responsibility.

00:52:10The bill is referred to our committee.

00:52:12So if it comes to our committee,

00:52:14we have a responsibility to talk about it.

00:52:15I know that we don't have the votes right now

00:52:18and out of respect the senator from Colorado,

00:52:22I will withdraw my amendment and ask unanimous consent,

00:52:26Madam Chair, to withdraw the amendment.

00:52:27But I wanna work with you.

00:52:28I wanna work with all the members of this committee.

00:52:30We just can't avoid that massive impact

00:52:33that's gonna have upon us.

00:52:34Madam Chair.

00:52:36Senator Sullivan.

00:52:37Madam Chair, just a quick comment.

00:52:39I think Senator Markey is raising an important issue.

00:52:42I don't always agree with him on energy issues,

00:52:45but when we're looking at AI

00:52:47and we're looking at cloud computing

00:52:49and we're looking at these things,

00:52:50it is important to recognize

00:52:52we're gonna need a lot of energy in America

00:52:55if we're gonna be the lead in these areas.

00:52:56And that's why in many of my colleagues

00:53:00on both sides of the aisle,

00:53:01I would say more on the Republican side of the aisle,

00:53:03are for all of the above energy

00:53:05and not going to certain states like mine,

00:53:07like the Biden administration has done

00:53:08and saying we're gonna shut down all of Alaska's energy.

00:53:11It doesn't make any sense

00:53:13and we're gonna need energy for this.

00:53:15And so I think it's an important topic

00:53:18that we need to look at.

00:53:20America needs more energy.

00:53:21We should have all the above energy,

00:53:23not going after certain states like mine,

00:53:26which has been the focus of a lot of shutdowns

00:53:29by the current administration.

00:53:32And if the gentleman would yield.

00:53:34Senator Markey.

00:53:35Thank you.

00:53:36And I hope we can move.

00:53:37And I can wrap it up.

00:53:38I can wrap it up.

00:53:39I can wrap it up.

00:53:40And just to say this,

00:53:43my mother would always say to me,

00:53:44Eddie, when I'm 10, 11, 12,

00:53:48very disappointed.

00:53:50She would say, Eddie, your father and I,

00:53:55we're gonna donate your brain to Harvard Medical School

00:53:57as a completely unused human organ.

00:54:00You have to learn how to work smarter, not harder.

00:54:03Well, that's all I'm calling for here.

00:54:06Let's have the study.

00:54:07And then what are we gonna call upon the industry to do

00:54:11to reduce their unnecessary electricity consumption?

00:54:15I don't wanna hear them boasting

00:54:16about all the wonderful things

00:54:18they're gonna do for our society.

00:54:20And then say they can't themselves.

00:54:22Like doctor, heal thyself.

00:54:23AI industry, heal thyself.

00:54:25How are you gonna be more energy efficient?

00:54:27How are you gonna get this done

00:54:28using your own technology

00:54:30that doesn't necessitate us

00:54:31ever having to build the plants in the first place?

00:54:34So this is not really about megawatts.

00:54:36It's about negawatts.

00:54:38It's about the negativity,

00:54:40the negative watts that never have to be built

00:54:42because we were smarter and not working harder.

00:54:45So I thank you, Madam Chair.

00:54:46I look forward to withdraw the amendment.

00:54:49We'll look forward to working with you.

00:54:51Is there further discussion?

00:54:52Good, thank you.

00:54:54Senator Cruz, do you want a roll call vote on this?

00:54:56Voice vote, voice vote.

00:54:58Yeah, voice vote.

00:54:59All those in favor?

00:55:00I'd like a roll call vote on this.

00:55:01No.

00:55:02Is this the?

00:55:03Markey is withdrawn.

00:55:04And now we're voting on final passage of 4769.

00:55:10All those in favor say aye.

00:55:12Aye.

00:55:12Opposed?

00:55:13No.

00:55:14The motion is agreed to.

00:55:15I recognize Senator Klobuchar.

00:55:17I move that S3312,

00:55:20the Artificial Intelligence Research Innovation

00:55:23and Accountability Act of 2023,

00:55:26as amended by the Thune-Klobuchar substitute,

00:55:29be favorably reported.

00:55:31Is there a second?

00:55:33Second.

00:55:35Is there a discussion?

00:55:37Madam Chair.

00:55:38Senator Cruz.

00:55:40Madam Chair, I call up Cruz 15,

00:55:43the No High Impact AI System.

00:55:46This bill is the only AI bill being considered today

00:55:49that contemplates mandatory standards

00:55:52and certifications for certain AI systems,

00:55:55as well as robust enforcement

00:55:57from the Department of Justice.

00:55:59I have noted my longstanding concerns

00:56:01with the effects of heavy-handed regulations

00:56:04and what that means

00:56:05for U.S. technological competitiveness and innovation,

00:56:08particularly with respect

00:56:09to our competitive edge over China.

00:56:12It can also serve to benefit incumbent operators

00:56:16and entrench powerful giant companies

00:56:20with the resources to comply

00:56:22with these onerous standards.

00:56:24Currently, the bill has robust DOJ enforcement

00:56:28with respect to entities that deploy

00:56:30so-called, quote,

00:56:32high-impact AI systems

00:56:35that make decisions with respect to credit,

00:56:38employment, health care, et cetera.

00:56:40These are systems that are deployed

00:56:42by some of the most highly regulated entities now,

00:56:45like your local hospital,

00:56:47your bank, or your alma mater.

00:56:51I'm concerned with adding layer upon layer

00:56:54of new mandatory regulations for nascent technology.

00:56:58But I'm particularly concerned

00:57:00that if your bank, your town's college,

00:57:02or your hospital decides to use AI systems

00:57:05to improve outcomes for Americans,

00:57:08they will suddenly be swept into being regulated

00:57:11by the Department of Commerce

00:57:13on top of existing federal agencies,

00:57:16which already drives up the cost

00:57:18of essential services for the average American.

00:57:21Inflation is ravaging American families now,

00:57:25and we should not take steps to make it worse.

00:57:28Regulating these specific AI systems

00:57:31in the manner proposed in this bill

00:57:33could also give the tools

00:57:35to the Biden-Harris administration

00:57:37to pursue many of the nefarious AIEO

00:57:41and Bill of Rights policies

00:57:43that the radical left wishes to use

00:57:46to censor speech.

00:57:48I've offered a number of amendments today

00:57:50to try to narrow the scope of this bill

00:57:52and to protect nascent technology

00:57:54and to stop duplicative regulations

00:57:57and multiple federal agency regulators.

00:58:00Unfortunately, the bill sponsors and I

00:58:02were not able to reach agreement today

00:58:04and find an appropriate scope for this bill,

00:58:07so I'm calling up Cruz 15.

00:58:10My amendment would limit the scope

00:58:11of the enforcement in this bill

00:58:14to only the critical high-impact AI systems,

00:58:18i.e., the critical infrastructure systems

00:58:21tied to our nation's security.

00:58:23I believe this is a better scope for the bill,

00:58:26especially given how nascent this industry is

00:58:29and how we ought to be cautious

00:58:30in adopting a command-and-control regulatory system

00:58:34that sets the United States back.

00:58:36I urge my colleagues to support this amendment.

00:58:39Further discussion?

00:58:41Madam Chair, thank you.

00:58:42I understand and support the ranking member's interest

00:58:45in minimizing the regulatory burden

00:58:48and providing room for AI development to flourish,

00:58:51but I have to oppose the amendment.

00:58:55Let me just say that the bill itself

00:58:58includes provisions which explicitly exclude

00:59:01deployers of these systems

00:59:03who are already subject to a similar regulation

00:59:04at other agencies,

00:59:05provisions that I have worked

00:59:07with the ranking member to improve.

00:59:10This provision is meant to provide

00:59:12some basic transparency

00:59:14with respect to deployment of these systems

00:59:16while minimizing burden

00:59:18and preventing duplicative regulation

00:59:20of these industries,

00:59:21and even for deployers of systems

00:59:24who are not subject to regulation elsewhere,

00:59:26they are simply required to submit a transparency report

00:59:29to the Department of Commerce.

00:59:31This does not require,

00:59:32does not require deployers to hand over data

00:59:35or any sensitive information,

00:59:37only describe actions that they're taking

00:59:38to manage risk in the deployment of their systems.

00:59:41Importantly, this entire framework

00:59:44recognizes the body of existing law

00:59:47that already addresses many of the risks posed by AI,

00:59:49and I've taken significant steps

00:59:51to minimize regulatory burden

00:59:54and to maximize transparency.

00:59:56I'm committed to working with the ranking member

00:59:59to resolve his concerns going forward,

01:00:01but I would urge opposition to this amendment.

01:00:03And I would also point out

01:00:05that this bill is not at all,

01:00:08at all,

01:00:09informed by the Biden EO.

01:00:12In fact, it is a very pragmatic,

01:00:16fact-based and risk-based alternative

01:00:18to the EO,

01:00:20and which creates more certainty out there

01:00:22because these EOs come and go

01:00:24with every administration.

01:00:25And I think the EO is the wrong approach.

01:00:27I believe this is the right,

01:00:29light-touch approach

01:00:30that encourages innovation

01:00:33and, at the same time,

01:00:35provides a framework

01:00:37to address some of the riskier applications of AI.

01:00:40I think it's the right touch.

01:00:41Madam Chair.

01:00:42Senator Klobuchar.

01:00:43I just wanted to reinforce what Senator Thune just said.

01:00:46This bill was long in the making

01:00:49and it has broad support on both sides of the aisle.

01:00:52It's narrowly tailored.

01:00:54I know that Senator Thune,

01:00:56as the lead on the bill,

01:00:57has worked with Senator Cruz on other issues.

01:01:00We've worked with him on issues

01:01:02and we will continue to do that.

01:01:04But this really creates some base regulation

01:01:07for non-defense applications of AI

01:01:10and is a very important bill.

01:01:11And I thank Senator Thune

01:01:12for his leadership on the bill.

01:01:15Further discussion?

01:01:16Madam Chair,

01:01:17one suggestion I'd have for my colleagues

01:01:20to consider, perhaps,

01:01:21when referring to the Biden AI EO

01:01:24as the AI EIO.

01:01:28And with that,

01:01:28I'm happy to have a voice vote on this amendment.

01:01:30All those in favor of the Cruz amendment,

01:01:34say aye.

01:01:35Aye.

01:01:36All those opposed?

01:01:37No.

01:01:39Motion is not agreed to.

01:01:41Madam Chair.

01:01:45Senator Schmidt.

01:01:46I'd like to call up Schmidt, amendment one.

01:01:48I think, hold on one second, Senator Schmidt.

01:01:50Is this on the Thune-Klobuchar bill?

01:01:58It is.

01:02:07Senator Schmidt.

01:02:09Thank you, Madam Chair.

01:02:09Call up for vote Schmidt, amendment one.

01:02:12This amendment would prohibit the FCC,

01:02:18who has no legal authority at all,

01:02:21to impose controls on political speech.

01:02:23They're moving forward with that rule.

01:02:26Senators McConnell, Thune, Cruz, and myself

01:02:29wrote a letter on June 6th.

01:02:32Recognizing this issue,

01:02:33this is a very dangerous road to go down.

01:02:35In my view,

01:02:36the first amendment is not a partisan issue.

01:02:40We should not be empowering an agency

01:02:41that has no legal authority at all

01:02:43to censor political speech

01:02:45just in time for the 2024 general election.

01:02:51Thank you.

01:02:53Members, we had not expected this to come up.

01:02:57I thought we had had a discussion about this.

01:03:01AI, as we know,

01:03:02has the potential to upend campaigns and elections

01:03:05unless there's some rules of the road.

01:03:08Today, actually, I'm calling up two bipartisan bills.

01:03:11One I have with Senator Hawley

01:03:13and Senator Collins and others on deepfakes.

01:03:16And then the second one is on labeling

01:03:19with Senator Murkowski.

01:03:22This is like a hair-on-fire moment.

01:03:24And given that we've seen some opposition,

01:03:27they are bipartisan bills,

01:03:29and we hope we can work through it.

01:03:30We don't want to then take away the authority

01:03:35that the FCC has had for decades

01:03:38to require information about political ads

01:03:41on television and radio to be made public,

01:03:44like who bought an ad,

01:03:45how much they paid for it, when it ran.

01:03:48So I would argue to my colleagues,

01:03:50I'm happy to talk to them about this later,

01:03:53but this is not the time or place to do this.

01:03:56And if anything, the last thing we want to do

01:03:59when we don't have any set rules in place on AI

01:04:02is to take away the authority of the FEC or the FCC

01:04:07to be able to continue to do their job.

01:04:09And I hope that our colleagues would consider

01:04:13withdrawing this and we could discuss it at another time

01:04:16or we could have a vote if you would like.

01:04:19Madam Chair.

01:04:21Senator Schmidt.

01:04:21There had been a conversation

01:04:23about doing a study about this

01:04:26as long as there was a pause.

01:04:28There is no pause.

01:04:30And to the point, the FEC has come out

01:04:33and said that the FCC has no legal authority.

01:04:36So, you know, outside of the conversation

01:04:39about censoring political speech

01:04:42from a government agency,

01:04:43the fact of the matter is

01:04:45the FCC has zero legal authority to do any of this.

01:04:49So if we want to study it, I'm all for it,

01:04:50but they need to pause it.

01:04:51If they're not going to pause it,

01:04:53this is the opportunity to,

01:04:54in a bipartisan way,

01:04:55to stand up for the First Amendment together.

01:04:57I just think, again, it is the very last time

01:05:00we want to be setting a new precedent

01:05:02to limit the FCC's ability

01:05:04to regulate political broadcasting

01:05:06at this moment where we are seeing

01:05:09used against,

01:05:10whether it was former President Trump

01:05:12during the primary in New Hampshire

01:05:14an ad that had a fake video

01:05:17of him hugging Dr. Fauci,

01:05:19or whether it was the fake robocall

01:05:22of President Biden's voice

01:05:23telling people not to vote,

01:05:25or whether it's the fake video

01:05:27of Elizabeth Warren that we saw.

01:05:29It's been going on on all sides.

01:05:30And the last thing that you want to do

01:05:32is to limit the FCC's ability

01:05:34or the FEC's ability right now

01:05:36as we try to put some rules

01:05:38of the road in place.

01:05:40Maybe there's some we could talk about

01:05:42if we weren't being blocked

01:05:43of putting AI rules in the place

01:05:45of Senator Hawley in my bill

01:05:47to ban these deepfakes

01:05:48except for parody and things

01:05:50that would be limited by the Constitution.

01:05:54Madam Chair, I'll ask for a roll call vote.

01:05:56Thank you.

01:05:56Speaking against the Schmidt Amendment,

01:05:59I think the FCC has made it clear,

01:06:01it's been in the press,

01:06:03that they are not going to affect

01:06:05what happens in this election.

01:06:07So the desire by you to try to affect this

01:06:10is an admirable one,

01:06:11but I think Senator Klobuchar's point

01:06:14is that what we need to see

01:06:15is action that people agree on

01:06:17by this body as opposed to something

01:06:19that might curtail the current authority

01:06:22of the FCC.

01:06:22I urge my colleagues not to support.

01:06:24Clerk, we'll call the roll.

01:06:26Ms. Klobuchar.

01:06:29Mr. Schatz.

01:06:31Mr. Markey.

01:06:33Mr. Peters.

01:06:34No by proxy.

01:06:35Ms. Baldwin.

01:06:37Ms. Duckworth.

01:06:39Mr. Tester.

01:06:40Ms. Sinema.

01:06:42No by proxy.

01:06:43Ms. Rosen.

01:06:45No by proxy.

01:06:46Mr. Lujan.

01:06:48Mr. Hickenlooper.

01:06:50No by proxy.

01:06:52Mr. Warnock.

01:06:53Mr. Welch.

01:06:56Mr. Cruz.

01:06:57Aye.

01:06:58Mr. Thune.

01:07:01Mr. Wicker.

01:07:03Mrs. Fisher.

01:07:05Mr. Moran.

01:07:08Mr. Sullivan.

01:07:10Mrs. Blackburn.

01:07:12Aye by proxy.

01:07:14Mr. Young.

01:07:16Mr. Budd.

01:07:18Mr. Schmidt.

01:07:20Mr. Vance.

01:07:22Mrs. Capito.

01:07:24Ms. Lummis.

01:07:26Aye by proxy.

01:07:28Ms. Cantwell.

01:07:29No.

01:07:31The noes are 14.

01:07:32The yeses are 12.

01:07:33Motion is not agreed to.

01:07:41So the motion is not agreed to.

01:07:50We're now voting on 33-12 and be reported favorably.

01:07:58All those in favor say aye.

01:08:00Aye.

01:08:01Opposed.

01:08:03The motion is agreed to.

01:08:04Senator Klobuchar.

01:08:05I move that S-1008 Setting Consumer Standards for Lithium-Ion Batteries Act be favorably reported.

01:08:14Is there a second?

01:08:16Second.

01:08:19Is there discussion?

01:08:21Madam Chair.

01:08:22Senator Cruz.

01:08:24Madam Chair, I call up Cruz 1 on this.

01:08:29When acting within the authorities that Congress has given them,

01:08:32the CPSC fulfills an important mission to protect the American consumer.

01:08:37But lately, unfortunately, the CPSC has been operating outside of its authority,

01:08:42particularly with respect to its ridiculous escapade to try to ban gas stoves.

01:08:48This is unacceptable.

01:08:50And Congress should not reward that conduct by giving more authorities to this rogue agency.

01:08:58It is also true that there has been a rise in fires, some causing fatalities and serious injuries,

01:09:06due to rechargeable lithium-ion batteries for devices such as e-bikes and electric scooters.

01:09:12This is particularly the case due to cheap, defective imported products, often from China,

01:09:19that don't comply with the current voluntary manufacturing standards that are recommended by

01:09:25CPSC and commonly adopted by U.S. manufacturers.

01:09:30My amendment is a compromise to address the risk of fires while placing guardrails around the CPSC.

01:09:38My amendment proposes requiring the CPSC to adopt the current voluntary standards

01:09:44for batteries recommended by the CPSC and that have been adopted by the New York City Council.

01:09:51Yes, I'm asking for this committee to take the very same position that New York City took.

01:09:58By adopting these standards, Congress is speaking to the fire risk

01:10:03without giving the agency broad authority that can be abused.

01:10:08Especially in light of the Supreme Court's decision in Loper,

01:10:12Congress must begin to reclaim its legislative authority,

01:10:15so I urge my colleagues to support this amendment.

01:10:18My colleague is right that fires caused by poorly made batteries coming from China is an issue,

01:10:25but the CSPC needs every tool we can give it to make safety and protect consumers

01:10:31and help first responders a priority.

01:10:34The purpose of this amendment is really to limit the CSPC's ability

01:10:39by requiring the agency adopt voluntary standards.

01:10:44The House passed legislation, which is in this underlying Bill 378-34,

01:10:50included the future APA rulemaking,

01:10:53so we should not let the fear-mongering about an agency

01:10:58now hobble them from doing their true mission,

01:11:01which is safety, protecting consumers, and protecting responders.

01:11:06The House passed legislation is endorsed by firefighters, fire chief,

01:11:09building owners, and consumers report.

01:11:12I oppose the amendment.

01:11:16Clerk will call the roll.

01:11:17Ms. Klobuchar.

01:11:19No.

01:11:20Mr. Schatz.

01:11:22Mr. Markey.

01:11:26Mr. Peters.

01:11:28No by proxy.

01:11:29Ms. Baldwin.

01:11:31Ms. Duckworth.

01:11:33Mr. Tester.

01:11:35Ms. Sinema.

01:11:38Ms. Rosen.

01:11:39No by proxy.

01:11:41Mr. Lujan.

01:11:44No by proxy.

01:11:45Mr. Hickenlooper.

01:11:47No by proxy.

01:11:49Mr. Warnock.

01:11:51No by proxy.

01:11:53Mr. Welch.

01:11:55Mr. Cruz.

01:11:57Mr. Thune.

01:11:59Mr. Wicker.

01:12:05Mrs. Fisher.

01:12:09Mr. Moran.

01:12:11Mr. Sullivan.

01:12:13Mrs. Blackburn.

01:12:16Mr. Young.

01:12:19Mr. Budd.

01:12:23Mr. Schmidt.

01:12:25Mr. Vance.

01:12:28Mrs. Capito.

01:12:30Ms. Lummis.

01:12:32I by proxy.

01:12:34Ms. Cantwell.

01:12:35No.

01:12:36The noes are 14, the yeses are 12.

01:12:38Motion is not agreed to.

01:12:41So now we have a motion that the S-1008 is ordered to be reported favorably.

01:12:50All those in favor say aye.

01:12:51Aye.

01:12:52All those opposed.

01:12:53The motion is agreed to.

01:12:55I recognize Senator Klobuchar.

01:12:58I move that S-3348, Harmful Algal Bloom and Hypoxia Research and Control Amendments Act

01:13:06of 2023 as amended by the Sullivan substitute be favorably reported.

01:13:13Second.

01:13:15Is there discussion?

01:13:18Madam Chair.

01:13:18Senator Cruz.

01:13:21Madam Chair, I call up Cruz Amendment 11.

01:13:25This bill would authorize eight million dollars for the EPA to perform

01:13:29Harmful Algal Bloom Research, HAB.

01:13:34The EPA has never been authorized before for these funds.

01:13:38We need to be good stewards of our environment because we all need clean air

01:13:42and we all need clean water.

01:13:43However, this administration's EPA is more interested in stifling development,

01:13:48not actually taking care of the environment.

01:13:51The Biden-Harris administration EPA cares more about appeasing the left-fringe environmental

01:13:57lobby than they do about American families, as can be seen in their national pollution standards

01:14:04for passenger cars.

01:14:06The EPA's regulations are setting up this country for a dangerous economic decline.

01:14:12Biden, Harris and their officials care more about their radical climate agenda than they

01:14:18do about the welfare of the American people.

01:14:21The EPA has gone overboard by imposing massive burdensome rules on farms over the years,

01:14:27making it harder for people that put food on our tables to survive.

01:14:32The goal of the EPA is to impose irrational regulations on American families,

01:14:37making it more difficult for them to survive and prosper.

01:14:40Look at how the EPA in California are pushing to ban gas-powered vehicles over the next decade.

01:14:48The rules the EPA continues to push on the American people will create a greater dependence

01:14:52on China-produced vehicles.

01:14:55This amendment removes a provision that provides additional funding to the Biden administration's

01:15:00out-of-control EPA, and I urge members to vote yes on this amendment.

01:15:05Madam Chair.

01:15:07Senator Schatz.

01:15:08Just very quickly, look, obviously Senator Cruz and I have a deep disagreement about

01:15:13climate policy and energy policy, but the idea that we're going to pull out money for a real

01:15:18problem, algal blooms are like, that's a real thing.

01:15:21It may be something that is easy to characterize as goofy, but that's a real thing.

01:15:25If you fish, if you hike, if you are ever in nature, you can see this in lakes and streams

01:15:33and coastal areas.

01:15:34This is not the target that Senator Cruz thinks it is.

01:15:38If you want to attack the EPA, attack the EPA, but allowing the federal government to

01:15:44do pure research to try to solve an actual problem is not the way to do it.

01:15:52That's our roll call.

01:15:55Clerk will call the roll.

01:15:57Ms. Klobuchar.

01:15:58No.

01:15:59Mr. Schatz.

01:15:59No.

01:16:00Mr. Markey.

01:16:01No.

01:16:02Mr. Peters.

01:16:04No by proxy.

01:16:05Ms. Baldwin.

01:16:06No.

01:16:07Ms. Duckworth.

01:16:07No.

01:16:08Mr. Tester.

01:16:09No.

01:16:10Ms. Sinema.

01:16:12No by proxy.

01:16:15Ms. Rosen.

01:16:17No by proxy.

01:16:18Mr. Lujan.

01:16:19Mr. Hickenlooper.

01:16:23No by proxy.

01:16:24Mr. Warnock.

01:16:26Mr. Welch.

01:16:28Mr. Cruz.

01:16:30Mr. Thune.

01:16:32Mr. Wicker.

01:16:37Mrs. Fisher.

01:16:40Mr. Moran.

01:16:42Mr. Sullivan.

01:16:44Mrs. Blackburn.

01:16:46Mr. Young.

01:16:48Mr. Bud.

01:16:52Mr. Schmidt.

01:16:54Mr. Vance.

01:16:56Mrs. Capito.

01:16:59Ms. Lomas.

01:17:03Ms. Cantwell.

01:17:04No.

01:17:05The noes are 14, the yeses are 12.

01:17:07Motion is not agreed to.

01:17:10I think that now the vote is on S3348.

01:17:13Be reported favorably.

01:17:17Voices.

01:17:18All those in favor say aye.

01:17:20Aye.

01:17:21All those opposed.

01:17:22The motion is agreed to.

01:17:24Madam Chair.

01:17:26Senator Wicker.

01:17:27Madam Chair, I move that S2238 as modified by the substitute,

01:17:36including Sullivan 1, Thune 1, and Fisher 1 be favorably reported.

01:17:44Second.

01:17:47Second.

01:18:17Second.

01:18:47Thank you.

01:19:17Thank you.

01:19:47Thank you.

01:20:00Madam Chair.

01:20:02Senator Schmidt.

01:20:02Thank you, Madam Chair.

01:20:03I would call up Schmidt Amendment 1 to Cruz Amendment 3

01:20:09as modified.

01:20:10The amendment's at the desk.

01:20:11We haven't seen the modified amendment, Senator Schmidt.

01:20:15I was wondering, Senator Schmidt, if you would,

01:20:17this bill has been a lot of members and a lot of different issues.

01:20:21We're trying to keep this out of a big proxy fight on so many of the spectrum issues,

01:20:27but we do support Senator Wicker's underlying bill

01:20:31and the consensus reached by members, and we would like to move ahead.

01:20:36I would ask you to support Senator Schmidt Amendment 1,

01:20:40I would ask you if you would withdraw your amendment

01:20:45in hopes that we could keep this focused on broadband and move it through the process.

01:20:51Well, Madam Chair, I'm actually confident we would have bipartisan support for this amendment.

01:20:57I'm sure the Senator, we all want to solve these problems,

01:21:01and certainly there is divergent opinion on this committee about how to solve them.

01:21:06Well, the part of the problem, Madam Chair, is

01:21:08we don't get amendment votes on the floor, ever, unless they're sure to fail.

01:21:13And if we're not allowed to offer amendments that we're sure to pass in committee,

01:21:18an individual member has very little recourse to advocate for things

01:21:22that actually have broad support.

01:21:24And so we've tried to work on this.

01:21:26This is a simple amendment that would fund the rip and replace that, again,

01:21:29was overwhelmingly supported by Republicans and Democrats

01:21:32to expand auction authority to pay for that, the three billion bucks.

01:21:36I don't view this as particularly controversial.

01:21:40I would say that we had a hearing and a subject on this

01:21:46in which members on your side literally brought up

01:21:50that this were things that we shouldn't be doing

01:21:53because this shouldn't be a bill about spending priorities.

01:21:56That can't well bill before the committee in a hearing.

01:22:00So I do think that we all want to solve these issues.

01:22:04And I would just ask the senator again,

01:22:06if he would just hold and work with us on this.

01:22:10We will make sure that he gets a vote at a future time,

01:22:12either on the floor or in this committee.

01:22:17When?

01:22:19In September.

01:22:19Like...

01:22:26So, I mean, quite frankly,

01:22:28I'm just saying there's no vehicles.

01:22:30This is a vehicle.

01:22:31Trust me, we've made great progress in the last month

01:22:36of having many people at DOD and Department of Commerce come to terms.

01:22:41But when you offer your amendment,

01:22:43then other people will want to offer ACP.

01:22:45And then we'll have other amendments.

01:22:47So we will be here for several more hours trying to decide these issues.

01:22:53So I will promise you, sir, to have a vote on this when we return in September.

01:22:57In committee?

01:22:58Yes, or on the floor, either one.

01:23:01Well, we were blocked on amendments on spectrum bills previously.

01:23:04Well, because there is disagreement.

01:23:06We are trying to work them out.

01:23:08So for the comedy of what great work our colleagues have done today,

01:23:12I ask you if you will take that agreement for a vote in September.

01:23:20Listen, Madam Chair, you and I have a good working relationship.

01:23:23I really want to work with you.

01:23:24I don't...

01:23:26We've had so few markups.

01:23:28This is a bill that's moving.

01:23:30It fits.

01:23:32It has broad bipartisan support.

01:23:34I mean, what you're asking me to do is to bet on the come

01:23:39that there'll be something down the road for a markup that may not happen.

01:23:42And in a floor process by Senator Schumer that totally doesn't allow amendments.

01:23:47So I want...

01:23:48I'm asking you to not have a broadband discussion

01:23:52that now would turn into a spectrum discussion

01:23:54that would then get lots of other amendments added

01:23:57and a promise that we will give you a chance

01:24:01either on the floor or in this committee

01:24:03to offer, if it isn't resolved by then, a vote.

01:24:07So this is about whether you want to work with people

01:24:11to have that opportunity.

01:24:12I'm trying to do that.

01:24:13I really am.

01:24:14And we've gotten commitments from Democrats on this bill

01:24:19who support this amendment.

01:24:22We all support getting a spectrum policy.

01:24:24This really isn't about spectrum policy.

01:24:26This is about rip and replace, you know, Huawei.

01:24:30It is about a broader policy.

01:24:31And it is about other amendments that people want to offer

01:24:35when you turn Senator Wicker's bill

01:24:37that is a basic bill on broadband into a spectrum discussion.

01:24:42So I just would...

01:24:43I look forward to working with you on it.

01:24:46And I would just ask your consideration.

01:24:49Madam Chair.

01:24:50Senator Thu.

01:24:52I just...

01:24:52The senator from Missouri makes a good point.

01:24:56This is...

01:24:57It's relevant to the underlying bill.

01:24:59And I am a co-sponsor of the underlying bill.

01:25:02I think it helps passage of the underlying bill.

01:25:05And it does address an issue

01:25:07which is of concern to members on both sides of the aisle.

01:25:10And I appreciate what you're saying

01:25:12about getting them a vote here in the committee.

01:25:14My experience, however, has been

01:25:16that committing to votes on the floor

01:25:18sometimes aren't the most reliable

01:25:21because that's not something that you or I

01:25:23or anybody on this committee controls.

01:25:26And we just haven't had, as he points out,

01:25:29votes on the floor on amendments period for a long time.

01:25:33Every bill that hits the floor these days,

01:25:35the amendment tree has been filled.

01:25:37So I don't think that's probably a realistic option for him.

01:25:41But, you know, we have a bunch of bills in front of us today.

01:25:44We have two, three weeks in September,

01:25:47a handful of days that we're actually going to be in session.

01:25:50And a vehicle that's moving now,

01:25:53which fixes a problem, needs to be fixed,

01:25:55and doesn't, in my view, in any way,

01:25:57affect the underlying discussion

01:25:59we need to have on Spectrum Pipeline.

01:26:01I am very much, as you know,

01:26:03we have a bill on Spectrum Pipeline.

01:26:05But I do think this gets at a subject

01:26:07that is very important,

01:26:09particularly to areas of the country

01:26:11where rip and replace has not been effectively accomplished,

01:26:16a goal that we all share.

01:26:17So I think the Senator from Missouri raises a point.

01:26:23And I think he would win on his amendment.

01:26:26And I think the bill would pass overwhelmingly.

01:26:32Further discussion?

01:26:35I'm sure I asked for a roll call vote.

01:26:38I just, Madam Chair.

01:26:40Senator Tester.

01:26:41I don't know what the hell we're voting on.

01:26:42I don't know what the amendment does.

01:26:44I don't know how it's paid for.

01:26:45Rip and replace Huawei is great.

01:26:47But if we're talking about selling Spectrum,

01:26:50potentially military Spectrum, to do this,

01:26:53even though I support Huawei, that's a huge problem.

01:26:56Well, if the gentleman would yield.

01:27:00Senator Wicker.

01:27:01I do believe it would require an appropriation.

01:27:08This authorizes an amount for a rip and replace,

01:27:13but it doesn't appropriate the money.

01:27:16And so that would be a decision to be made later.

01:27:19Let me just suggest that if the chair believes

01:27:26she has the votes to take this out

01:27:29because it should be taken up on another piece of legislation,

01:27:34then let's just proceed to a vote

01:27:36and see where the chips fall.

01:27:40But the matter is before us.

01:27:45And I think the senator deserves a vote.

01:27:48And I will vote in favor of it.

01:27:52But it would be subject to appropriation.

01:27:55Senator Duckworth.

01:27:56What is the authorized amount?

01:27:58I don't have a copy of this in front of me.

01:28:00I don't know what the context is.

01:28:02You're asking me to vote on something I've never seen.

01:28:07Yeah, it's been submitted.

01:28:09It's out there and I'll be happy to go through it.

01:28:11But this committee, this Congress has felt

01:28:16as a matter of national security

01:28:18to rip out and replace Huawei assets.

01:28:25Congress appropriated over $1.2 billion to do that.

01:28:29That is not enough.

01:28:31The additional $3 billion to do it

01:28:35would come from non-military but AWS-3 spectrum.

01:28:40And so this would allow us to actually finish the job.

01:28:45It doesn't go into a big broad policy discussion

01:28:49about spectrum.

01:28:52I joined Senator Tester in opposing Huawei.

01:28:57But I would like to see a copy of this.

01:28:58May I get a, can you print this out for me to look at?

01:29:02Sure.

01:29:03Thank you.

01:29:06Senator Welch.

01:29:07Senator Welch.

01:29:09Thank you, Madam Chair.

01:29:14We haven't seen the text.

01:29:16But number two, there are many of us

01:29:19on both sides of the aisle who not only share

01:29:23Senator Schmidt's concern but also are extremely concerned

01:29:29about the continuation of the ACP program.

01:29:33That really affects affordability

01:29:35for about 23 million Americans.

01:29:37Those are in all of our states.

01:29:39And that's why I think there's really been

01:29:40solid bipartisan support.

01:29:43And it affects 4 million veterans.

01:29:47And I spoke to our VA director, Dennis McDonough yesterday,

01:29:53and extremely concerned about how this is going

01:29:57to adversely affect our veterans.

01:30:00So we've got a tangle here because those of us

01:30:04who support the ACP include a lot of folks

01:30:09who support rip and replace.

01:30:11Senator Wicker's been a leader on that

01:30:14and share Senator Schmidt's concern.

01:30:17But we're not going to get one without the other.

01:30:19And how do we resolve that?

01:30:23We're still working on it, essentially,

01:30:25to try to get a pay for.

01:30:27But I will, as the chair indicated,

01:30:31want to propose the bill that I had co-sponsored

01:30:35that would provide $7 billion that would then pay

01:30:40for a continuation of the affordable connectivity program

01:30:44and rip and replace.

01:30:47So I would just want to put the committee on alert

01:30:50that I would be offering that as an amendment

01:30:54as part of this overall discussion.

01:30:57And I yield back.

01:30:59So a quick clarification

01:31:02that the Schmidt amendment was timely filed.

01:31:04I've got my staff making Xerox copies of it

01:31:07to give a written copy to everyone.

01:31:10It should be available momentarily,

01:31:13but it was timely filed.

01:31:15So your staff should have it already,

01:31:16but you will get another copy momentarily.

01:31:20It was, I don't think it was.

01:31:23Just to clarify.

01:31:25Senator Welch.

01:31:26I'm sorry.

01:31:27Yeah.

01:31:27I don't know that the amendment was timely filed.

01:31:30And we weren't expecting to call up Senator Wicker's bill

01:31:34for this very reason

01:31:35because a lot of things had not been worked out.

01:31:37And so as we're dealing with this,

01:31:40we have 10 or 11 other bills that I'd like to get to.

01:31:43And so I would like to get to the rest of those bills.

01:31:48But if we can't get to them

01:31:49because we're going to sit here and argue now about spectrum,

01:31:52this afternoon, we can do that.

01:31:55I don't know what everybody's schedules are

01:31:57and the length of time that it will take to do that.

01:32:00But yes, people will have the right to offer the ACP amendment.

01:32:04So that is part of this broader discussion.

01:32:07Madam Chair.

01:32:09Yes, Senator Lujan.

01:32:10Madam Chair, thank you very much.

01:32:12I also want to join in the conversation

01:32:15that Senator Welch just reminded us of.

01:32:20Another bipartisan accomplishment

01:32:22and the infrastructure package was understanding

01:32:25that constituents in every one of our states

01:32:30did not have access to high speed, affordable internet.

01:32:3690 million people that just couldn't afford it.

01:32:39And we learned during COVID

01:32:40the importance of this powerful program

01:32:43to ensure families could connect.

01:32:46It was supported in a bipartisan way.

01:32:47I want to commend Senator Welch and Senator Vance

01:32:50who first came up with an appropriation bill

01:32:53to be able to provide funding for this program

01:32:57so that it would not end.

01:32:58Number two, I was proud to work with Senator Vance

01:33:01to develop a piece of legislation

01:33:03to provide short-term funding for ACP

01:33:06for the remainder of this year,

01:33:08until which time this committee and the Congress

01:33:11would pass spectrum reauthorization legislation

01:33:14to include funding for ACP, rip and replace,

01:33:17all these critical programs

01:33:19for those of us that especially live

01:33:21in the most rural parts of America

01:33:23where our constituents don't have that connectivity,

01:33:25where we could work on it together.

01:33:27The very nature that I'm talking about,

01:33:31the vice presidential running mate

01:33:33of the previous president,

01:33:37and these pieces of legislation

01:33:38show how we work together.

01:33:40There's some colleagues that disagree as well,

01:33:42but I'm certainly hopeful that there is the ability

01:33:46that if this is going to move forward,

01:33:49that what Senator Welch will be offering to us as well

01:33:53to support ACP would be included

01:33:55in that same bipartisan spirit of us working together

01:33:59to ensure these programs get put in place.

01:34:02I yield back.

01:34:08Madam Chair.

01:34:09Senator Schmidt.

01:34:10I would just point out

01:34:11that Congress mandated rip and replace,

01:34:14so this is fulfilling the obligation.

01:34:16The ACP, which I'm perfectly,

01:34:17and I'm sure others are perfectly willing

01:34:19to have that negotiation as related to the Spectrum Bill,

01:34:21haven't been afforded that opportunity.

01:34:22It's not mandated, but we should,

01:34:25I'm all in favor of working this stuff out,

01:34:27but in order to do that,

01:34:28you actually have to present ideas

01:34:30and have votes on them,

01:34:31and that's all I'm saying

01:34:33is that Congress mandated rip and replace.

01:34:35This is an easy way to pay for it,

01:34:38and it has broad bipartisan support

01:34:40on a bill that's relevant that's moving.

01:34:43Madam Chair.

01:34:46Madam Chair.

01:34:47Senator Schatz.

01:34:49Just for the benefit of all the members,

01:34:52I just have a parliamentary inquiry.

01:34:54If the Schmidt Amendment was not timely filed,

01:34:57do we need unanimous consent in order to consider it?

01:34:59It's modified.

01:35:07You have to have agreement by the chair and ranking member.

01:35:12Well, good news is it was filed days ago.

01:35:14Not the modified, not the modified version.

01:35:18So,

01:35:32Is it possible as we move through these other things

01:35:35that we at least get these 15 bills done?

01:35:39We put this in abeyance for a minute.

01:35:41I would object to that.

01:35:43Okay, that we've been all waiting for,

01:35:46for like a year,

01:35:50that are all bipartisan,

01:35:52that we could do together.

01:36:17I don't care.

01:36:20I don't care.

01:36:21Yes, if that's what you want.

01:36:23Okay, I think we might have a path forward.

01:36:27Okay, could everyone just,

01:36:29so we can move the chair is speaking.

01:36:34So, we will proceed to a vote on a Schmidt Amendment.

01:36:40I think my colleague, Senator Welch,

01:36:41wants to offer a ACP Amendment.

01:36:45Just for the record,

01:36:46the Schmidt Amendment wasn't timely filed,

01:36:48but I am.

01:36:53Nothing changed.

01:36:53Nothing changes to the top line

01:36:55about what the cruise modified was.

01:36:57Nothing.

01:36:57I think the chair is about to rule in your favor.

01:37:00I want to make clear.

01:37:01That's fine.

01:37:02No, no, I'm just saying we filed this days ago.

01:37:05So, I don't want to,

01:37:06like we're pushing this on to people at the last minute.

01:37:10That's not true.

01:37:14Okay.

01:37:15Madam Chair, can I just?

01:37:16Yes, Senator Tester.

01:37:18So, I think there's broad support

01:37:21for rip and replace on Huawei.

01:37:24Senator Fischer, would you yield for a question?

01:37:29I will.

01:37:30Senator Fischer, is AWS3 the military bans

01:37:34we've been debating about for the last six, eight months?

01:37:37No, not in the amendment that Senator Schmidt has.

01:37:42But it refers to, in the section, the bill I have,

01:37:46and I just says, it says this.

01:37:50It says, not later than one year after the date

01:37:52of enactment of this act,

01:37:53the Federal Communications Commission

01:37:54shall initiate a system of competitive bidding

01:37:57under section 309J of the Communications Act of 1934

01:38:01to grant licenses for spectrum

01:38:03in the inventory of the commission

01:38:04with the bands of frequencies

01:38:06referred to by the committee as AWS3 bands

01:38:09without regard to whether the authority

01:38:11of the commission under paragraph 11

01:38:13of that section has expired.

01:38:15That tells me that we're gonna sell off spectrum in AWS3.

01:38:20And unless I'm assured that that is absolutely 100%,

01:38:25not part of the military ban

01:38:26that's been under negotiation for the last six, eight months,

01:38:29no matter how I feel about rip and replace,

01:38:32I'm not gonna put national security at risk.

01:38:35Senator Tester, and I agree with you

01:38:37on our very strong stand that you and I have

01:38:40when it comes to selling off spectrum

01:38:44that our Department of Defense

01:38:46needs to keep this country safe.

01:38:49As we are reading Senator Schmidt's amendment,

01:38:52it's the AWS3 bands which applies to

01:38:58what were the DISH bands that they now have to return

01:39:04that has been decided,

01:39:06and that's what this amendment refers to.

01:39:10Let's vote.

01:39:15Senator Boone.

01:39:15Madam Chairman.

01:39:17Senator Lummis.

01:39:18Madam Chairman, I strongly encourage us

01:39:21to consider the Schmidt amendment.

01:39:28Three states are heavily impacted by this.

01:39:33Nebraska, Wyoming, and Colorado significantly so.

01:39:36There's an entire strip of Interstate 80

01:39:40that will lose service

01:39:44if these small rural companies

01:39:47that have significant investments

01:39:50in the technology that has been deemed a security risk

01:39:56because it was made in China

01:39:58and not enough money was allocated

01:40:01to replace the rip and replace program.

01:40:06And so consequently, we've got areas all over the country

01:40:10that are at a national security risk

01:40:12specifically because they still have

01:40:15the Chinese technology embedded in their systems

01:40:19that the federal government decided needed to be replaced.

01:40:25So this is in protection of national security.

01:40:29Furthermore, if you've ever driven on Interstate 80

01:40:33through Nebraska and Wyoming

01:40:36and then down on I-70 in Colorado

01:40:39in the winter, you know that you can hit spot blizzards,

01:40:44cars go over, trucks go over.

01:40:47And if there's no broadband,

01:40:50there's no access to use your cell phone,

01:40:55this is getting dangerous.

01:40:58And these companies are at the end of their rope now.

01:41:02We need to do this.

01:41:04And I strongly support the Schmidt Amendment.

01:41:09Thank you very much, Madam Chairman.

01:41:18Madam Chair, I'm sorry to beat it at her.

01:41:22So are we saying that the dishpans,

01:41:25no part of the AWS-3 is being claimed

01:41:28by the DoD at all for nationals?

01:41:30That is correct.

01:41:32Okay, thank you.

01:41:32That's correct.

01:41:33So I suggest that we move forward

01:41:37on both of these proposed amendments

01:41:39by Senator Welch and Senator Schmidt

01:41:46and the final passage.

01:41:51So all those in favor of Senator Schmidt say aye.

01:41:55Aye.

01:41:55All those opposed?

01:41:56The amendment is agreed to.

01:41:59Senator Welch?

01:42:04I propose amendment labeled Kentwell 1,

01:42:08which would provide $7 billion

01:42:12for the continuation of the Affordable Connectivity Program.

01:42:17And all of us understand the importance of that program

01:42:21and how it benefits folks

01:42:23in every single one of our states,

01:42:25including the 4 million veterans

01:42:28who without the affordability

01:42:30that is provided by this amendment

01:42:32will continue to be without broadband.

01:42:37I yield back.

01:42:41Is this $7 billion not offset?

01:42:50Pardon me?

01:42:51Well, I see that on section capital B, fiscal year 2024,

01:43:00$7 billion.

01:43:03To remain available until expended.

01:43:08Is there an offset?

01:43:10Not in this bill.

01:43:13All right, I thank the gentleman for yielding.

01:43:16I really, I think we're going to have to

01:43:21Senator, this would be

01:43:22look elsewhere to solve this problem.

01:43:24Well, let me explain.

01:43:26And this gets to the heart of the problem

01:43:27that I think the chair was raising

01:43:30about doing it in this fashion.

01:43:33This gets attached to the AWS of Senator Schmidt's amendment.

01:43:37Then there is going to be revenue generated from that.

01:43:40And what those of us who are saying

01:43:42is our major priority is ACP,

01:43:45we obviously want that pay for.

01:43:47And that is when that those who think rip and replace

01:43:51should be the top priority

01:43:52want to use that same revenue as the pay for.

01:43:56Bottom line here is we've been struggling together

01:43:59to find a way to accommodate the ACP,

01:44:04pardon me, the rip and replace needs.

01:44:08And also Senator Lummis,

01:44:09I mean, that's a really serious situation,

01:44:11obviously for the folks you represent.

01:44:14And we don't want to throw overboard

01:44:17all those folks who need the ACP.

01:44:19So what this amendment would do

01:44:22is essentially ride on the revenues

01:44:27that rip and replace would be using

01:44:30in Senator Schmidt's amendment.

01:44:32And we would have a shared use of the revenue

01:44:38from the sale of that spectrum.

01:44:42Offset.

01:44:44Senator Cruz.

01:44:45So Madam Chair, I've said a number of times

01:44:47that I'm happy to work with members across the aisle on ACP

01:44:51and to consider extending ACP if they're serious reforms.

01:44:55I would note this bill has no reforms in it at all.

01:44:58And as Senator Wicker observed,

01:45:00it is not paid for or offset in any way.

01:45:03So I would recommend a no.

01:45:05And Madam Chair, I would ask for a roll call vote.

01:45:07Clerk will call the roll.

01:45:08Madam Chair, just a parliamentary inquiry.

01:45:12I have an amendment in front of me

01:45:14that says Lujan one to Cruz three.

01:45:20I'm not sure Senator Welch's amendment

01:45:28is properly before us.

01:45:37All right.

01:45:39Clerk will call the roll.

01:45:41Aye.

01:45:42Ms. Klobuchar.

01:45:46Mr. Schatz.

01:45:47Aye.

01:45:49Mr. Markey.

01:45:51Aye, by proxy.

01:45:53Mr. Peters.

01:45:57Aye, by proxy.

01:45:58Ms. Baldwin.

01:46:00Ms. Duckworth.

01:46:02Mr. Tester.

01:46:04Ms. Sinema.

01:46:07Aye, by proxy.

01:46:08Ms. Rosen.

01:46:09Aye, by proxy.

01:46:10Mr. Lujan.

01:46:12Mr. Hickenlooper.

01:46:14Aye, by proxy.

01:46:15Mr. Warnock.

01:46:16Aye.

01:46:18Mr. Welch.

01:46:19Aye.

01:46:20Mr. Cruz.

01:46:21No.

01:46:22Mr. Thune.

01:46:25Mr. Wicker.

01:46:27Mrs. Fisher.

01:46:29Mr. Moran.

01:46:31Mr. Sullivan.

01:46:33No, by proxy.

01:46:35Mrs. Blackburn.

01:46:36No, by proxy.

01:46:38Mr. Young.

01:46:40Mr. Budd.

01:46:42No, by proxy.

01:46:43Mr. Schmidt.

01:46:46Mr. Vance.

01:46:47No, by proxy.

01:46:48Mrs. Capito.

01:46:49No, by proxy.

01:46:50Ms. Lemus.

01:46:51No, by proxy.

01:46:52Ms. Cantwell.

01:46:53No, by proxy.

01:46:55Aye.

01:46:56The yeses are 14, the noes are 12.

01:46:58The motion is agreed to.

01:47:01Now we are, what is the number please?

01:47:04I know we're, the motion is on Senator Wicker's original bill.

01:47:10All those in favor say aye.

01:47:12Aye.

01:47:13All those opposed.

01:47:14The amendment, the motion is

01:47:16agreed to.

01:47:25Senator Cruz.

01:47:26Madam Chair.

01:47:28All right, I'm going to have to take a deep breath for this one, sorry.

01:47:31I move that S-275, the Rural Broadband Protection Act of 2023, as amended by the Capito substitute,

01:47:40S-690, the Network Equipment Transparency Act, as amended by the Hickenlooper substitute,

01:47:47S-1570, the Bottles and Breastfeeding Equipment Screening Enhancement Act,

01:47:53S-1956, the Invest Here, Make Here Act of 2023, as amended by the Baldwin substitute, as modified,

01:48:01S-2086, the Sea Turtle Rescue Assistance Act of 2023, as amended by the Markey substitute,

01:48:10S-2233, the Youth Poisoning Protection Act, as amended by the Duckworth substitute,

01:48:16S-2498, the Hotel Fees Transparency Act of 2023, as amended by the Klobuchar-Moran substitute,

01:48:26S-2645, the Preventing Heat Illnesses and Death Act of 2023, as amended by the Markey substitute,

01:48:35as modified, Cruise 2, Cruise 3, Cruise 4, as modified, Shots 1 and Sullivan 1,

01:48:44S-3162, the Test AI Act of 2023, as amended by the Lujan Thune substitute, and Cruise 4,

01:48:52as modified, S-2377, the Marine Debris Program Reauthorization, S-3475, the Strengthening the

01:49:02Commercial Driver's License Information System Act, S-3606, the National Earthquake Hazards

01:49:09Reduction Program Reauthorization Act of 2024, as amended by the Tester substitute,

01:49:17S-3788, the National Landslide Preparedness Act Reauthorization Act of 2024, as amended by the

01:49:25Cantwell substitute, S-3849, the Promoting U.S. Leadership and Standards Act of 2024,

01:49:34as amended by the Blackburn substitute, as modified, S-3879, the Illegal Red Snapper

01:49:42Enforcement Act, as amended by the Cruise substitute, Cantwell 1, and Shots 3, as modified,

01:49:49S-3943, the Accelerating Networking Cybersecurity and Hardware for Oceanic Research,

01:49:56anchor, S-3959, the Transportation Security Screening Modernization Act, as amended by the

01:50:03Wicker Tester substitute, as modified, S-4107, the Think Differently Transportation Act, as amended by

01:50:12the Duckworth Capito substitute, S-4212, Music Tourism, as amended by the Blackburn substitute,

01:50:21S-4343, Fire Ready Nation, as amended by the Cantwell substitute, Shots 2, as modified,

01:50:29Shots 3, as modified, and Shots 4, as modified, S-4487, the Small Business AI Training Act,

01:50:37as amended by the Cantwell-Moran substitute, and Cruise 3, as modified,

01:50:43S-4569, the Take It Down Act, as amended by the Cruise substitute,

01:50:49S-4596, the Artificial Intelligence Public Awareness and Education Campaign Act,

01:50:57and S-4579, the Northwest Straits Marine Conservation Initiative Act,

01:51:04as amended by Sullivan 1 and Cruise 1, all be reported favorably. Is there a second? Second.

01:51:12All those in favor say aye. Aye. All those opposed, no. The ayes have it. The motion is agreed to.

01:51:21Madam Chair. The motion is agreed to.

01:51:24Nominations. One last motion. Senator Cruz. Madam Chair, I move that PN-1580, the nomination of Chad

01:51:34M. Carey of Alaska to be Director of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Commission

01:51:40Officer Corps and Office of Marine and Aviation Operations, PN-440-2, PN-1803, PN-1804,

01:51:52PN-1116-2, PN-1900, PN-1901, Coast Guard Promotions, be favorably reported.

01:52:02All those, is there a second? Second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed,

01:52:08no. The ayes have it. The motion is agreed to. The nominations are ordered to be reported

01:52:12favorably. I ask that staff have the authority to make any technical and conforming amendments.

01:52:20I know that members, we have a vote on the floor, but members may want to speak to any

01:52:26of the legislation that we have passed today. Yes, Senator Capito. Thank you, Madam Chair. I would

01:52:33like to thank you, Madam Chair, and the ranking member, particularly for S-275, the Rural Broadband

01:52:40Protection Act. This is about accountability for all the dollars that are flowing into rural America

01:52:46to get to that last home, that last place. We want to have the vetting of the internet

01:52:51service providers, whether they can actually deliver this to the rural America in a timely

01:52:58fashion, and that we don't run into a situation where they're turning money back four and five

01:53:02years later because they actually underbid or they can't do the service. I want to thank you

01:53:07very much. Thank you. Senator Baldwin. Thank you. I want to thank the Chair and ranking member for

01:53:14working with Senator Vance and myself to advance our Invent Here, Make It Here Act. To me, this is

01:53:21pretty simple. If American taxpayers are funding the research that leads to a breakthrough invention,

01:53:27American manufacturers and workers should be making those products. Sadly, we've seen

01:53:33some instances of taxpayer-funded, cutting-edge innovations getting shipped abroad, only to have

01:53:40foreign, sometimes adversarial countries, manufacture and use the technology we all paid

01:53:46for. For instance, there was a high-profile case of government-funded research that helped develop

01:53:52breakthrough battery technology, but instead of those batteries becoming a great American success

01:53:58story, a Chinese company was able to buy the technology and is now manufacturing them in China.

01:54:05Today, by passing the Invent Here, Make It Here Act, we've taken an important step showing the

01:54:12bipartisan support for this bill, standing with American manufacturers, and I thank my colleagues

01:54:17for your support. Senator Goldfein. Yes, I just want to thank you among the many bills we passed today.

01:54:24The Hotel Fees Transparency Act that Senator Moran, Senator Capito, and I put together. It's already

01:54:31passed the House, and this is a really good bill to guarantee that the price you see is the price

01:54:37you pay for hotels and other accommodations. I would require anyone advertising a hotel room

01:54:44or short-term rental to clearly show the true cost of a booking up front. This is positive,

01:54:50bipartisan development. Thank you. Senator Cruz. Madam Chair, quickly, before we adjourn, I'd like

01:54:56to note, although I agreed to allow several bills today to go by voice vote today in the interest of

01:55:02moving forward, many of them still need considerable work, and I commit to work with you and other

01:55:07members of the committee. I think we will be able to get there on some of the bills, others perhaps

01:55:12not, but I will not support a number of them on the floor until that work is done. Thank you. Well,

01:55:19I want to thank all of the members for their attendance today and participation in a major,

01:55:24major markup to move policy forward on many fronts, but specifically on artificial intelligence.

01:55:31It represents a great deal of work by many, many of our colleagues over the last year. I want to

01:55:36thank our staffs, too. I don't think people realize how hard they work to try to get these legislative

01:55:42proposals in a bipartisan fashion, and I will enter into the record a longer statement about

01:55:49all of the other bills that we have passed today and give recognition to our colleagues

01:55:54who worked so successfully on those. And again, with that, we're adjourned.

Ted Cruz And Maria Cantwell Repeatedly Square Off During Major Senate Commerce Committee Markup

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