As Simon Lipkin says, Fagin is “undoubtedly a wrong ‘un” and he knows it.
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00:00Good afternoon, my name is Phil Hewitt, Group Arts Editor for Sussex Newspapers. Lovely
00:06this afternoon to speak to Fagin from Oliver at Chichester Festival Theatre this summer.
00:12Now Simon, Simon Lipkin, you are Fagin, and he's such a fascinating character, isn't he?
00:17Because I suppose, is it tempting to think, oh, he's just evil, he's just bad, he's an
00:20absolutely wrong one? But there's so much more, isn't there? There is something inside
00:25him that does potentially redeem?
00:28100%. He is, I mean, he is a bad. He's got a line in the show that says, I'm a bad and
00:34a bad and I shall stay. Like, he is a deeply flawed character, which are the most fun characters
00:42to play. But he, Fagin is, he is also as flawed as he is, and as, as, as crooked as he is
00:52and all of those things. He's full of heart. He cares about building a family environment
00:59for these kids who have nowhere to go. He cares about the safety of people. He cares
01:04about people being happy and safe and loved.
01:07His mind is looking after the children, and he actually really is, isn't he?
01:11Yeah, I mean, look, it's still a win-win for him. He still gets to make a lot of money
01:15and run his business and do all of that. But it's, call it a Dickensian care in the community
01:21programme. Like, he's, he's, he is doing his best to earn a bob from wherever awful
01:30background that he came from as an immigrant to London, just trying to fight and make his way
01:36and, and trying to not let anybody else suffer like he suffers. Along the way, there's also,
01:43you know, people die, things get stolen, you know, you can't win them all.
01:47And with a lot of self-awareness, as the song reveals.
01:49A lot of self-awareness.
01:50That's a crucial song, isn't it?
01:52Oh, 100%. When we get to review the situation, it's a huge reflection on his entire life.
01:58And those things that I think we all think is something's really beautiful about the
02:01Ocean I Do This, maybe this is a better idea. And actually, what you realise at the end of the day
02:06is, I am who I am, but maybe, and I can't change that. So in Fagin's case, he realises,
02:13I'm a crook. This is what I want.
02:17So it comes around to self-acceptance.
02:19But it's self-acceptance as well. The choices you make along the way
02:23are what's important. So maybe I'm a crook, but never again will I put anyone in harm's way,
02:29or have anyone do anything that I wouldn't do. So there is a there is,
02:33I think it's a beautiful message that you can realise, don't fight who you are,
02:38but you can fight some of the choices you decide to make along the way.
02:41And you can keep those principles.
02:43Exactly.
02:44Yeah. Oh, it sounds fantastic. Really looking forward to seeing it. Lovely to speak to you.
02:49Thank you for your time.
02:49Nice to speak to you.
02:51Thank you.