#OffTheRecord #ImranKhan #PTI #ReservedSeats #KashifAbbasi #MatiullahJan #ElectionCommission #SupremeCourt #QaziFeazIsa #JusticeAtharMinallah
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NewsTranscript
00:00Briefly explain to the people, what is the case? What are the two sides?
00:07If you look beyond today's hearings, in all the hearings that have taken place throughout,
00:13there are three questions in front of the bench.
00:15One question is, can these special sessions be given to the ruling party?
00:19As the Election Commission has decided from the first day, and then it is the decision of the Peshawar High Court.
00:25The second question is, should these special sessions be given to the Sunni Council,
00:31which is also being requested by the Supreme Court.
00:34And the third question is, can these sessions be given to the PTI directly or not?
00:41But this is for the sake of people to understand.
00:45The question of PTI has been raised during the proceedings that whether PTI should be given or not.
00:49Initially, this question was not there in front of the court.
00:53Although Qazi Fajisa has repeatedly said that there is no scope for this case.
00:58But you are saying that there may be scope for this case.
01:01Qazi Fajisa gets emotional only after hearing the name of PTI.
01:06And especially after hearing the name of 13th January.
01:09Because on 13th January, he had given the decision of Balle Karishan.
01:12But there is no doubt that when a case comes to the Supreme Court of Pakistan,
01:15whether it is an appeal, or a case, where the fundamental human rights are discussed,
01:19then it is not explained in detail.
01:24Even in any appeal, if the question is that, for example,
01:28according to Article 17, it is the right of the organization,
01:30and political parties cannot be deprived of their recognition,
01:33then many judges have raised the question that
01:35under which authority, under which law, did the Election Commission
01:38declare all the members of PTI free?
01:41The Election Commission could not answer this question.
01:43Whether it is Judge Atamanullah, Judge Muneeb Akhtar, Judge Ayesha, Judge Mansoor Ali Shah,
01:47and other judges have also repeatedly asked this question to the Election Commission.
01:50So it seems that the third question to be given to PTI,
01:55that whether PTI can get it, is a genuine question.
01:58And regarding this, the Election Commission was repeatedly asked by the judges,
02:02but did not get the answer to the questions.
02:04And apart from that, these questions were also asked by the judges.
02:06So this third question is present.
02:08And there is a possibility that when a case has come to the Supreme Court of Pakistan,
02:12then they will explain Article 17 of the Constitution.
02:15And the Supreme Court of Pakistan will decide
02:18whether the Election Commission has the authority
02:20to deprive a political party of its recognition or not.
02:23So this question will definitely arise,
02:25and we will be able to see the answer to this in the decision.
02:27It is possible that the position taken by Chief Justice Qazif Ali Issa,
02:30and his opinion so far gives an impression
02:32that perhaps he wants to give seats to the ruling party.
02:35If he comes down from the position of giving seats to that ruling party,
02:40with his 3-4 other judges,
02:42then he will put most of his burden on the Sunni Jihad Council.
02:46And if some judges or majority judges want to give direct seats to the PTI,
02:53by declaring the PTI as a political party, by explaining Article 17,
02:57then to divide them,
02:59then the Sunni Jihad Council has a second option with Chief Justice Qazif Ali Issa
03:03and a few other judges.
03:05So there is a possibility that Article 17 will also be explained in relation to the PTI.
03:10Therefore, on this basis, we can say that even if the Sunni Jihad Council does not fight the elections,
03:17then it is still a political party, whether it is inside or outside the parliament.
03:21So on this issue, perhaps the Sunni Jihad Council will ultimately win.
03:24You look at it dispassionately,
03:26the letter of the law, there was a lot of debate in this.
03:28I also said this at the opening of the program a while ago,
03:31that there are no rules in Britain.
03:33They said the spirit of the constitution is this.
03:35Spirit is everything.
03:37On the basis of moral integrity, decisions should be made.
03:41We have a big debate here about the letter of the law.
03:44What is, in your view, more important, letter or spirit?
03:47The letter of the law does not strengthen your position by giving references again and again,
03:52and this will not prove it,
03:54especially with the words of our constitution,
03:56it does not prove anywhere that the seats that are reserved should be given to the ruling party as a source of income.
04:02So this is just a statement of a letter of the law.
04:04But in the letter of the law,
04:06on the other hand, it will say that it is not written that if you are not a political party,
04:11because these definitions have been told in the court,
04:14we have heard this from the court proceedings,
04:16that the political party in the parliament is the one who has won at least one session.
04:19And also that a list of seats should come to the election commission of Pakistan,
04:25then you can also amend it,
04:27even if you have given one seat,
04:29but you can amend it.
04:30So this is the other side that is told to us again and again,
04:33that this is also a test that should have been completed by the Sunni Tahaat Council or any political party.
04:42Look, this can be the opinion of Chief Justice Qazi Fajrissa or yours or anyone else,
04:48that the PTI did not fight the election as a party.
04:51And this is the thing,
04:52it is written in the constitution that the election is held for political parties.
04:57It is not written in the constitution that the election commission accepts those political parties.
05:02Political parties are political parties.
05:04They fight the elections.
05:05Even if they are declared free candidates,
05:09they cannot terminate the recognition of the political party.
05:12They cannot take recognition from that candidate.
05:14And this is what the Supreme Court has to explain in Article 17.
05:17And I think that if the majority of judges do not explain Article 17 in this matter,
05:23then they will explain exactly the same and rewrite the constitution,
05:28that the beneficiary of the special sessions are the winning parties,
05:33whom they call the community.
05:35Now see, the election commission calls the Noon League and the People's Party as a community,
05:39and is ready to give it additional sessions.
05:42But the people's party candidate, from whom only the mark was snatched,
05:45and Chief Justice Qazi Fajrissa and the majority of judges have said this in the Supreme Court,
05:50that the election commission has apparently misinterpreted the decision of 13th January.
05:57And the PTI candidates have been declared free candidates.
06:02When they have said this, it means that the majority of judges present on the bench
06:07believe that the PTI has fought a political party election.
06:11If they believe this, then the rest will act according to the words of the constitution,
06:16that every political party should get special sessions,
06:18and the PTI will also hold a position of a special session as a political party.
06:22There is no violation of the constitution in this.
06:24Chief Justice Qazi Fajrissa, on one hand he says that there are political parties,
06:28and on the other hand he says that the election commission has misinterpreted the decision.
06:31This means that he is misinterpreting the election commission's decision,
06:34and on the other hand he is accepting the PTI as a political party.
06:38So, two things cannot be said at the same time.
06:41But there is a political party.
06:43Mr. Mateej, it is being said again and again that people have found and put their vote in the election.
06:48This means that it is not possible for a political party to have a more difficult election than this,
06:51because it did not have a campaign, it was not given an election mark,
06:55its people were not allowed to come out,
06:57no campaign could be held, but people still found and put their vote in.
07:01So, the complete justice argument,
07:03I think you are also of the opinion that complete justice should be done,
07:07and then the violations that have occurred before that should also be corrected.
07:12Look, Mr. Kashif, there is a very wrong impression that when we take the name of complete justice,
07:16we mention Article 187 of the Constitution,
07:19that complete justice should be done by giving a reference to it.
07:21If Article 87 was not in the Constitution,
07:23then shouldn't the courts have done complete justice?
07:26This is a question for the legislators,
07:28and especially I think that the lawyers of the election commission,
07:33or the attorney generals who are saying again and again that we cannot go to 187.
07:37Now look, the attorney general of a country is saying that you cannot do complete justice.
07:41That is, you cannot give a reference to Article 187.
07:44Even if you don't give a reference to it,
07:46then what is the Supreme Court's job to do complete justice?
07:49It cannot do complete justice without a reference to Article 187.
07:52And let me tell you that there is no issue of complete justice in this.
07:55This is a straightforward issue of the interpretation of Article 17.
07:58And if PTI is accepted as a political party,
08:00then according to the words of the constitution, it has to get specific seats.
08:03There is no problem in this.
08:05And the biggest observation that should come in this decision,
08:09is not only that the PTI should be accepted as a political party and given specific seats,
08:13but there should also be a strong observation on the conduct of the election commission,
08:17which the election commission has never opposed any political party in this way before in history,
08:23the way this election commission is doing today.
08:25And today, Justice Shahid Waheed's remarks were also there,
08:28I don't know if they passed through your eyes or not,
08:30that he said during today's session that in some time,
08:33the government and legislators stood with the truth.
08:35It seems that the election commission of Pakistan has become a litigant.
08:39I heard this directly.
08:42Absolutely.
08:43As Justice Shahid Waheed said,
08:44now the situation is such that the legislative bodies also fight cases like a team.
08:49It is not the grace of the legislative bodies.
08:52It is not the dignity of the legislative bodies.
08:55And they want to win the case in every possible way.
08:58This is a very big belief of Justice Shahid Waheed.
09:01This is a very big indictment of the election commission of Pakistan.
09:03Let's flip this argument.
09:05They don't want to win in every case.
09:07They want to defeat the Sunni Tahaj Council and Tariq-e-Insaf in every case.
09:11If it was someone else, this situation would not have arisen.
09:13Absolutely.
09:14It is a very targeted approach.
09:16This is what I am saying.
09:18Absolutely.
09:19I am saying that both of our arguments are the same.
09:22In one place, it happens that an institution wants to win the case.
09:25They don't want the Sunni Tahaj Council or Tariq-e-Insaf to win the case.