During a House Oversight Committee hearing prior to the Congressional recess, Rep. James Comer (R-KY) questioned witnesses about CCP influence in US politics.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Captain Fennell, you testified about the national security community's failure to
00:05recognize and combat the CCP threat. How has the US intelligence community fallen
00:11prey to influence by the CCP? Well Chairman Comer, in my experience in the
00:20IC, what we had was this, and I mentioned it before, this threat deflation. That's a
00:26creation of my co-author and I, but the message behind it is that we were
00:33getting information about China and we were seeing things happen, but because of
00:39this kind of overriding engagement policy that we've had as a nation
00:45towards China since the opening up to China, there was this idea that if we
00:51engage with them that they would change their behavior at some point in time. And
00:55because of that mindset that permeated Washington and our institutions, the IC
01:01became ensnared with that and so they were less likely to make the connections
01:07to see what was happening. And I have examples, for instance, we saw what
01:11happened at 2012 at Scarborough Shoal in the South China Sea. We couldn't believe
01:16that China was going to take sovereign territory from a treaty ally. In 2013 to
01:212015, they started dredging up sand to build these seven artificial islands,
01:27three of which are the size of Pearl Harbor. And they did that, but the
01:32IC was reluctant to call that out until it was so painfully obvious. And we did
01:38that over and over and over again, over decades, over various programs, not just
01:43in the naval arena, across the board. Mr. Bethel, you testified that the CCP has
01:49infiltrated top levels of international institutions. Could you explain why
01:54China's influence at the World Bank and other international institutions matters
01:59to American security? Well, I addressed some of that earlier in my remarks
02:06to the congressman. But consider that U.S. taxpayer money is being funded to an
02:15institution that is getting people out of poverty. And at least while I was
02:19there, one of the preeminent recipients of money was China. And it would
02:25then leverage having a developing country status to gain advantage in
02:31other multilateral institutions like the World Trade Organization and the
02:35Universal Postage Union. Do you remember roughly how much American tax dollars
02:39we're talking about here? It's a complex question. Right. Because we have
02:48something it's a very complex question, which I can take offline
02:51with you. But we have effectively backstopped the institution, or at least
02:56our share of it, to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars. Right. Very good.
03:01Ms. Cassell, who is the CCP targeting when it engages in elite capture? I know you
03:07mentioned that a little bit. Let's get it in perspective here. It's a complex
03:13answer because they're not targeting a single type or class of individuals. They
03:19have a very, very large united front operation and affiliated organizations
03:23who target everything from our political class, state, local, and federal, to our
03:29top CEOs, to our chairs of boards of directors, universities, think tanks,
03:35business chambers. It's a long list, sir. So what role does the State
03:40Department play in protecting American businesses from CCP influence and
03:45becoming so-called corporate hostages? What role does it play or should it play?
03:49I think the State Department, as I outlined in my written testimony, has a
03:54number of tools to inform and educate all of those groups that I just
04:00mentioned, sir. And I think also even something like Consular Affairs, right,
04:07where they are issuing travel warnings. I just saw, just to give you an example the
04:11other day, there's a Wall Street research firm, I won't mention, who's
04:15advertising for U.S. investors to go with them to China. I believe that's a
04:19dangerous thing. And why do we allow it? Well, we can't ban people from going to
04:24China, but I think it's incumbent for the safety and security of Americans to
04:29inform them of the risks. That's just one small example. Well, based on your
04:33testimony today and the many briefings we've had with federal agencies, it
04:36really doesn't seem that there's a cohesive government-wide strategy to
04:41combat the CCP influence in American communities. So do you believe we have an
04:50effective government-wide strategy in place? Not yet, but it took us, how
04:59many decades did it take us to have an effective strategy against the Soviets?
05:02It took us a long time as a democracy. My concern is that we don't have that, the
05:06luxury of time. And you agree that we should have a strategy? What would that look
05:13like, in your opinion? We'd have to have another hearing on that, sir. Well, we probably will,
05:17because obviously we take this very seriously. We understand the
05:21threat, and we sincerely want to address this issue. And my time has
05:28expired, but I'll say this. I think this has been a very substantive hearing.
05:32Obviously, we have very credible witnesses here today, and hopefully we
05:38will continue this issue. This is a priority for the House Oversight
05:40Committee, for the majority. We want to work with the minority. There are
05:45certain members that I think had very substantive questions, and there were
05:49some that regurgitate their usual animosity towards the former
05:57president. But at the end of the day, I think that we can come together in a
06:01bipartisan way to try to address this situation. It begins by making certain
06:05that our government agencies know and understand the CCP threat, and I don't
06:09believe they do. In two hearings, I don't believe we have a single government
06:14agency that truly understands the threat and has a plan to alleviate that
06:20threat. So hopefully we can continue these hearings and come together as a
06:25Congress and make effective change. So in closing, I want to thank our
06:35witnesses again for your testimony today. And with that, without objection, all
06:41members will have five legislative days within which to submit materials and
06:44additional written questions for the witnesses, which will be forwarded to the
06:47witnesses. If there's no further business, without objection, the committee stands
06:51adjourned. Thank you.