"The President Is Now a King Above the Law" Supreme Court Ruling Sparks Legal Maneuvering by Trump
"The President Is Now a King Above the Law" Supreme Court Ruling Sparks Legal Maneuvering by Trump
Transcript
00:00It has now proven to get even better for them, because today the judge who oversaw Donald
00:05Trump's hush money trial here in New York has now delayed the sentencing to decide whether
00:10or not the Supreme Court's immunity ruling imperils that conviction.
00:14The sentencing was supposed to be here next week.
00:16It is now going to take place September 18th.
00:19And that, I'm quoting the judge now, is if such is still necessary.
00:23I want to break this down with all of our legal sources.
00:27And Judge, I want to start with you, because when I saw that quote, if it's still necessary,
00:32is there a real chance here where this New York conviction, they're overturned or they
00:36ask for a new trial because of the Supreme Court's ruling?
00:40They will ask for a new trial.
00:42There is a chance that that happens, depending upon what the papers say.
00:46But if you look at the Supreme Court decision, it talks about core constitutional responsibilities.
00:51I don't think that arranging to pay off a porn star has anything to do with core constitutional
00:57responsibility.
00:58So I imagine at the end of the day, there could be grounds to deny that.
01:02But Judge Michon did the right thing, because you have to hear out what the parties have
01:07to say.
01:08You have to, you may have to do a hearing, but you could decide it on the papers.
01:11But he did the cautious thing.
01:12And if he then set it down and said sentences this, this particular day, he's tipped his
01:17hand to say, I'm denying it.
01:19He's not going to do that.
01:20He was cautious.
01:21There's a sentence.
01:22That's when it will be.
01:23I mean, Ellie, it's pretty remarkable, though, to see the immediate aftermath of that ruling
01:27that we got just 36 hours ago.
01:29I reread this today, slowly this time.
01:32And I brought a prop.
01:33This is it.
01:34Let me tell you, that's the Supreme Court rule.
01:36This is the Supreme Court ruling, 36 hours old.
01:39This thing is a disaster for prosecutors.
01:42This opinion is a godsend from heaven for Donald Trump.
01:46The way that the Supreme Court defines official act is astonishingly broad on the one hand,
01:52and it might even include some of the conduct in the hush money case.
01:55But at the same time, it's also so vague that it's going to be almost impossible for Judge
01:59Mershawn, for Judge Chutkan to apply it.
02:02And there's been plenty of academic debate.
02:04I've been engaged in some of it.
02:05Good decision.
02:06Bad decision.
02:07Smart.
02:08Unwise.
02:09Doesn't matter because this is now the law, according to the Supreme Court.
02:12And Judge Mershawn and Judge Chutkan are going to have to apply this first.
02:15They may get results they don't like.
02:17They're going to have to live with them.
02:18And if they don't, it's going back to the Supreme Court.
02:21I mean, how does a godsend, as Ellie described it, feels like Trump gets a lot of those on
02:25the legal front.
02:27It really does.
02:28His attorneys would acknowledge that, too.
02:29And I'm going to tell you what else.
02:31I think this, no matter what the judge does in connection with this case, talking about
02:35Juan Mershawn, guess where it may end up?
02:37The Supreme Court of the United States.
02:39How and why?
02:40We're talking about a state case.
02:41I'll tell you how.
02:42What happens is, is that the judge, very brightly, I do agree with Jill in this interview,
02:45in this instance, because he set a motion schedule.
02:48That means attorneys submit your argument, right?
02:51The defense will submit their argument, and, of course, prosecutor will respond, and he
02:55will then weigh in on it.
02:56If they hear it's necessary, he'll do what he does.
02:58But no matter what he does, guess what happens then?
03:00It gets appealed.
03:01New York, we have departments.
03:02It'll get appealed to the first department.
03:04Thereafter, we have this other court, the High Court Court of Appeals.
03:07And then after that, Caitlin, it is likely, because it involves a federal question, to
03:12go to that very court.
03:13And so, last point, although the issues, you can argue, don't relate to official conduct,
03:19it's private conduct, it's a porn star, the issue's going to be, was evidence admitted
03:23in the case, and did it affect the outcome of the case?
03:26And that's going to be the question the judge will ask.
03:28And I'm watching pages just be ripped off a calendar, like in a movie, in my mind, as
03:32you're saying that.
03:33But even if there was some conduct while he was in the White House that's arguably official,
03:39and I don't really see that, there's still harmless error analysis.
03:41Exactly right.
03:43Meaning, even if it was wrong, it didn't affect or infect the verdict here.
03:48Because there was so much other overwhelming evidence.
03:51That's right.
03:52And it's really limited to Hope Hicks and a conversation she had, and Pecker, when he
03:54was in the White House.
03:55Let me say two things about that, though.
03:57This decision, the Supreme Court says, the motivation of the person, of the president,
04:01doesn't matter.
04:02So if he's talking to his comms director, Hope Hicks, that's all they're going to look
04:05at.
04:06The second thing is, Donald Trump's team is going to use the DA's own words against them.
04:10Donald Trump's team is going to say, that Hope Hicks piece of evidence, you know what
04:12the DA told the jury?
04:13Devastating.
04:14This is devastating, powerful evidence of guilt.
04:16The forms that Trump had to fill out, the disclosure forms of a new U.K. president,
04:20the DA stood in front of the jury and said, powerful, overwhelming evidence of guilt.
04:24Right.
04:25But I have to, I just have to say that although that they did say devastating, that's argument,
04:28it's not necessarily, you know, any evidence before them.
04:31And motivation is very important.
04:33Because if you look at what the president argued at this trial, it was, I was not trying
04:39to infect the election.
04:42I was trying to protect my wife and my family, which means it is not official.
04:46You're making, that was the argument for why that evidence was important, which is why
04:49it's going to be error if it was let in.
04:51I totally disagree.
04:52I totally disagree.
04:53It's fascinating to see all of this.
04:54I love a good disagreement.
04:55It's fascinating to see all this is, you know, today we're learning Rudy Giuliani was disbarred
04:59here in New York.
05:00You know, as Trump is getting all of these, these good luck streaks from, from the courts,
05:05saying Rudy Giuliani be disbarred.
05:06Great to have you all here.
05:07Thank you very much for that coming up here as president.