On "Forbes Newsroom," Claire Finkelstein, Director of UPenn's Center for Ethics and the Rule of Law, explained why the Supreme Court's presidential immunity decision pertaining to former President Trump may be in anticipation of a second Trump term.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Now, Professor Finkelstein, what do you think is happening here?
00:02There seems to be a pattern that people who are sort of observing or claiming that there's
00:07potentially judicial overreach here, that the Supreme Court is—there's delay tactics
00:13here, there's sort of coddling of former President Trump's cases in order potentially
00:17to benefit him.
00:20What do you see as the pattern that may be occurring here, if there even is one?
00:26Well, what's really striking to me is the difference between the Trump v. Vance case
00:31just decided four years ago in 2020 and this case, because there's only been one change
00:39in the court's identity since 2020, and that's Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson.
00:51And she did not change the balance significantly, certainly not for the more conservative side.
00:59And it was a Justice Roberts opinion in both cases.
01:03So you remember in the Trump v. Vance case, which also dealt with immunity, albeit a different
01:09kind of immunity, the court was unanimous in finding that presidents were not above
01:18the law.
01:19And so they seem, just in four short years, to have reversed themselves and to have taken
01:24a very different position with regard to presidential authority.
01:30How did that happen?
01:31Well, I think one of the things that happened, which is really striking, is that they are
01:37acting now in anticipation of a second Trump presidency.
01:43And they're expecting that presidency to be quite lawless.
01:49And they may be, despite holding lifetime tenure, may be afraid.
01:55And they may also be afraid of their own accountability, because significant questions have been raised
02:03about several of the members' ethics, and they are looking potentially for protection.
02:11So that's just a total speculation on my part.
02:14But if you could expand just a little bit on that, they are afraid that what exactly
02:18might happen?
02:19Well, they could be afraid of being held accountable for their own ethical problems, and they may
02:26be looking towards a potential Trump presidency for protection from him.
02:34But they also may be concerned about his promises to seek revenge against political enemies.
02:43So he has promised to use the Justice Department to seek revenge against political enemies.
02:51He has said, he has promised that he will use the Justice Department in lawless ways,
02:58and that he will seek to prosecute those who get in his way and those who have tried
03:05to hold him accountable.
03:08And so people may be, this may be a reflection of a tide turning in which people are afraid
03:16to stand up to him.
03:17People are afraid of the consequences.
03:20So potentially moving more towards an authoritarian type of scenario in the United States, which
03:28a lot of people have complained, to your point, that we are sort of being governed
03:32by fiat, by a court that is, I mean, the Supreme Court in general is an unelected body.
03:38It's an undemocratic body.
03:40But now we have this conservative supermajority that a lot of people are concerned about that
03:44is not bowing at all to stare decisis, but is creating completely new rules.