Judge Ko Harasan Karne Ka Case. .. Noon Leaguei Aur PTI Rehnumao Ke Ahem Bayan
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00:00Prime Minister's Office, Mr. Jalal, please tell the Prime Minister's Office not to interfere with the judges and not to contact them.
00:10Please tell the Prime Minister's Office. This is a big thing.
00:14I would like to add two points to the previous discussion.
00:18Zain was saying that there should be consultation and discussion in the Parliament.
00:23This is a good thing. No one can deny this fact.
00:28But there are many issues of national security that can be jeopardized if discussed at an open level.
00:39Secondly, there is no point in discussion if the environment of the Parliament is not affected.
00:47The second point, which Mr. Fazlur Rahman is also saying, that we have to talk at the embassy level, is also very important.
00:54No one can deny that there is an effort being made at the embassy level.
01:00The Taliban have been working with the government, but the problem is not solved.
01:06It's been two or three years.
01:09Yes.
01:10They have been working at the diplomatic level.
01:12Yes. We should focus on them.
01:14You have said that someone should say this at the seniority level.
01:21I think that promotion is not only done at the seniority level.
01:26Competence and suitability are also important.
01:29Everyone reaches his level of inefficiency.
01:32There is a stage when you go up to see how many lawyers are there, how many junior judges are there.
01:39Finally, you have to become a member of the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.
01:42This is not necessary.
01:43We see this in the army as well.
01:45We also have a pyramid.
01:46There is a chief up there, and there is an army of 6-7 lakhs down there.
01:49What is your merit in that?
01:53Seniority also counts.
01:55The last point you said that the Prime Minister should order.
02:00Everyone should know the constitutional limits.
02:03Then there is the sanctity of the courts, which should also be in our minds.
02:08If I want to go to a security agency and make a request, then that is wrong.
02:15If I am pressurizing someone to change the decision of a justice, then this is not right.
02:21The Prime Minister does not need to say this.
02:23The courts should know this themselves.
02:25But many times, on their security issues,
02:29locally, many people from the courts will tell you that,
02:33sir, this is your hearing, we did this.
02:36Some people keep contacting on administrative and security issues.
02:41But not to affect their decision making or to bias their mind.
02:47So this is what I am saying.
02:49Right, right.
02:50Mr. Zain, regarding the SIC, the Supreme Court decision was misinterpreted,
03:01and then a large group was put aside.
03:03The matter is stuck on specific sessions.
03:06Where do you see it going?
03:09Before coming to the NICAS, the General has said a very good thing,
03:13and I would like to thank him.
03:15He was saying that there should be consensus in this.
03:18And he said that there are sensitive things.
03:21So I agree with him.
03:22But in-camera briefings are also done for this reason,
03:25and the National Security Committee is also made for this reason,
03:28that the sensitive things should be shared with the party leadership.
03:32Unfortunately, I have to say that
03:35we do a lot of things in the name of sensitivities.
03:42The Cypher case passed in front of you.
03:45The case was trialed in-camera.
03:47And from the first day to the last day,
03:50the defense, the judges, everyone kept asking to show the Cypher,
03:54on which the entire case was made.
03:56But you saw that no one saw the Cypher in the end.
03:58It was never punished.
04:00So we should decide, when we are discussing such sensitive things,
04:04that if there is something sensitive,
04:06then there is a method in our laws and regulations,
04:09that how we can display it,
04:11or with whom we can share it.
04:13It is not like that.
04:14As far as Mr. Athar Milana's additional note is concerned,
04:17you have explained it very beautifully.
04:21He said that the decision of the Supreme Court has been misinterpreted.
04:25And because of its misinterpretation,
04:27a very large community,
04:29like you rightly pointed out, Pakistan Justice,
04:31lost its symbol and was declared independent.
04:34Then they asked the lawyer of the Election Commission,
04:37did you declare them independent?
04:41Or did they write it independently?
04:43And the Election Commission, as always,
04:45could not give a definitive answer.
04:47On which they have now asked for the entire record of all the members.
04:51And I think they are giving it to the ROC and compiling it.
04:53A good development that has taken place in this,
04:55on the part of Pakistan Justice,
04:57is that we have also demanded
04:59that the case of the symbol of our bat
05:01should also be heard with this reserve seat.
05:03Mr. Azaan, I am sorry to cut you short.
05:05You yourself have spoilt the work of the Election Commission.
05:08Yes.
05:10The great work of the Election Commission should also be heard by everyone.
05:15But you yourself have spoilt the matter of the bat.
05:17In that, you had already done the work of the people of the city,
05:19the cruel Sanu Maranda Shauk.
05:21There is no doubt about that.
05:23Your lawyer has also said that.
05:25Okay, then it will be decided.
05:27We want that it should be heard.
05:29In the same way,
05:31we want to hear the case of the reserve seat
05:33till the end of the month.
05:35We want to hear the case of the symbol.
05:37And it will be very good that this is a larger bench.
05:39If it is put in front of the larger bench,
05:41then you will have two victims from one arrow.
05:43Right.
05:45Mr. Amir Zia, at this time,
05:47the government versus judiciary,
05:49versus the situation that has been created,
05:51where is this matter going?
05:53Have you ever seen such a situation in your career?
05:55Where the government is going one way,
05:57the establishment is on its own,
05:59and the judiciary is on its own.
06:03And in such a situation,
06:05no one is able to reach a consensus with anyone.
06:07Where do we have to converge now?
06:09Look,
06:11fortunately, this is not happening for the first time in Pakistan.
06:13Many times,
06:15this has happened between institutions.
06:17I remember that time when Nawaz Sharif
06:19was in power,
06:21and the Supreme Court of Pakistan
06:23had declared his enemy.
06:25So this also happened.
06:27And you remember,
06:29sometimes the judiciary
06:31and the military establishment
06:33are aligned,
06:35sometimes there are differences.
06:37You see, the government is nowhere in the world
06:39that the government of the time
06:41is undermining the Supreme Court
06:43or its Supreme Court.
06:45I am criticizing them,
06:47but our governments have this pride
06:49that when the decision is not coming in their favor,
06:51they are propagating it.
06:53Remember this PDM.
06:55And this is not just PDM,
06:57PDI has also done it in their time.
06:59Their people also criticize.
07:01But you can see from this tradition
07:03that when they were in power,
07:05how much force the PDM put on them.
07:07Then when they got the opportunity,
07:09I mean, when Imran Khan's government was dismissed,
07:11and these people formed the government,
07:13how much violence there was.
07:15This is not happening for the first time,
07:17and it is happening again and again.
07:19We have the Supreme Court,
07:21we have the Pak Army,
07:23and we have the Parliament.
07:25But if everyone works in their own sphere,
07:27but if the court is not giving a decision
07:29in your favor,
07:31I mean, if Mr. Shahbaz Sharif gets relief,
07:33then it is a very good decision.
07:35And if his opponents get relief,
07:37then it means that the courts are biased.
07:39So we should change this attitude.
07:41We should understand that our Supreme Court
07:43is free and self-sufficient.
07:45And yes, the concerns of their complaints
07:47are being manipulated,
07:49or attempts are being made to ignore them.
07:51So these things should be addressed.
07:53Our Army Chief should also pay attention to this.
07:55He should also pay attention,
07:57and the Prime Minister of Pakistan should also pay attention
07:59to this.
08:01The system of justice in this country
08:03is already very broken.
08:05The common man does not get it,
08:07but if this misunderstanding
08:09starts in particular cases,
08:11then the crookedness that has come
08:13into our politics,
08:15I would say that
08:17we are Darvesh people,
08:19we should continue to take care of ourselves.
08:21We should continue to speak the truth.
08:23We are weak people,
08:25we will speak the truth.
08:27Mr. Zain,
08:29why are you smiling?
08:31You have also done a lot of work.
08:33A judge made a decision here and there,
08:35and you went on a rampage.
08:37Then you had to apologize later.
08:39Look Anika,
08:41I personally
08:43agree with what Amir Zia
08:45has said.
08:47I have told you before,
08:49and I am the first one to say this,
08:51that if there have been mistakes in the past,
08:53the justification is not that you have also done this,
08:55so if you want to correct it in the future,
08:57it should not be corrected.
08:59If there has been a mistake and you want to correct it,
09:01then it should be a good thing.
09:03In principle, I completely agree with what Amir Zia is saying.
09:05Mr. Jalal, do you agree with the fact that
09:07there are things that should not happen,
09:09but unfortunately they do happen.
09:11Some people will be happy about it,
09:13and some people will have their reservations.
09:15And they have the right to take it to the next level of the court.
09:17And you have seen that
09:19the decision made at the Supreme Court level,
09:21like the hanging of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto,
09:23they themselves are saying that
09:25they have made a mistake.
09:27This does not mean that the decision
09:29that was made is 100% correct.
09:31Yes, you have to accept,
09:33because the law says that this is a competent court.
09:35If they want to hang someone,
09:37they can do it.
09:39They can hang a prime minister.
09:41But if these decisions
09:43are weak,
09:45then they will be
09:47punished later in history.
09:49And if these decisions are good,
09:51then they become references.
09:53That is why we should have
09:55a potent decision from the judges,
09:57from the honourable judges and the court,
09:59so that they are referees later on.
10:01You see, Justice Cornelis,
10:03Justice Bhagwandas,
10:05etc.
10:07There are many decisions
10:09of these people,
10:11and there are many old decisions in the court.
10:13That is why I think that the decision
10:15judges should make,
10:17with Allah's permission,
10:19with honesty.
10:21I was listening to the Supreme Court
10:23Chief Justice today.
10:25He was also saying that
10:27you have to make this decision
10:29based on your personality.
10:31The country in which the system
10:33of justice becomes weak,
10:35and the morale of the people
10:37was going down,
10:39when he went to Churchill,
10:41he said, what will happen now?
10:43The Germans are about to come.
10:45He said, the courts are running.
10:47He said, okay.
10:49That is a big responsibility.