The cast of Ryan Coogler’s “Black Panther: Wakanda Forever,” including Danai Gurira (Okoye), Alex Livinalli (Attuma) Mabel Cadena (Namora), Producer Nate Moore, and the famed director himself are here to discuss making the epic Marvel sequel. Watch as they discuss filming the emotional and powerful scenes with stars Angela Bassett and Tenoch Huerta, where this film sits in the MCU’s timeline, and what’s next for the characters and Coogler himself.
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00:00One, two, three, Leaky Telokan!
00:04Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
00:11Show them who we are.
00:16So just going into this story, I'm curious just how far you went as far as determining
00:21what has been happening in Wakanda, basically since the first Black Panther film up until
00:28this point.
00:29Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:30That's something Joe and I had to sit down and talk with Nate about, just kind of establishing
00:38like that backstory because we needed to know it for ourselves, but also our actors are
00:45very serious about their craft.
00:47That's going to be the first thing they ask, like when they show up, like, all right, so
00:50what's been happening?
00:51Where am I?
00:53And, you know, we decided that after T'Challa and Shuri were snapped away by Thanos and
01:04all the damage that happened in the invasion of Wakanda by Thanos' army, that the vacant
01:11seat on the throne was determined to be occupied by Ramanda.
01:16So that decision went a very long way and led to the conflict between Ramanda and Nakia
01:28that caused Nakia to leave.
01:30So that decision right there started to inform more.
01:35Like because there is a one year time jump in this film, but when does this film take
01:39place?
01:40Do you know specifically?
01:41Oh boy, in sort of a year's?
01:43I couldn't tell you.
01:44I could tell you where it sits in the other movies because I try to do it somewhat chronologically,
01:48but if you asked me, if you held a gun to my head, honestly, I probably would get it
01:52wrong.
01:53So where do you say between the movies?
01:54Yeah, I mean, look, if you think about like this movie clearly happens after No Way Home
02:00and Eternals.
02:02I think it probably happens potentially concurrent with Thor.
02:06New Asgard does exist in our universe, for instance, or in our film and almost concurrent
02:12with Ant-Man and the Lost Quantumania, which is coming out in February, March, a few months.
02:17So in the run up to production and during while you were filming, what were the kind
02:21of conversations that you were having with Ryan Coogler about kind of the journey that
02:25Okoye is on, both what we didn't see before this film and during?
02:30Yeah, there was lots of conversations around, you know, her arc and how we get it there
02:38and the journey that she's on.
02:40We knew there was going to be quite a drastic thing that would happen to her in this film.
02:44And, you know, what that was really about, what was underneath that, you know, very much
02:49her position, because there's a lot of elements of where grief is and how it's hitting different
02:58members of this ensemble in different ways.
03:01So where exactly does it hit her and how is she handling it?
03:05And, you know, she's a very in control type of person and likes to be that way.
03:12Obviously, she's handling the protection of the nation.
03:15So it's really understanding how that translates into what she ends up doing, because she's
03:20a doer, to feel that control maintained.
03:24But is she taking care of herself?
03:26So all those things were very much discussed all the time.
03:30And just the tiny elements of what she would say, what she wouldn't say, all those little
03:33things about what comes out of her mouth was always something we explored very, very, very,
03:38very thoroughly.
03:39I love that you know the character that well over this amount of time, too, that you can
03:43do that.
03:44I'm curious, did you talk about the relationship with W'Kabi and what has happened with Okoye
03:50and him?
03:51We did.
03:52We did.
03:53I can't go into too many details.
03:54You would ask my director about that whole thing, but we definitely did.
03:58There was stuff that, you know, we didn't end up doing, but we definitely did.
04:03Yeah, he's, there's a, he's basically banished, but still in Wakanda's borders.
04:12Oh, okay.
04:13Yeah.
04:14If that makes sense.
04:15Yeah.
04:16So it's one line that refers to him still being alive.
04:18Yeah.
04:19Yeah, I was curious about that.
04:20Yeah.
04:21And one scene that I specifically wanted to ask about is actually the scene where W'Kabi
04:25is brought up, is the scene with you and Angela Bassett in the throne room, because there
04:31are some heavy emotions there and from both sides, and you can understand where both of
04:35them are coming from.
04:36I'm just curious what it was like on set and just sharing that moment with Angela Bassett.
04:41It was amazing.
04:42It was intense.
04:43It was a lot of, it was a very intense and exhausting day.
04:48My character is exhausted.
04:50She is, of course, she doesn't, she's horrified at her failings and she doesn't expect even
04:57the results to be as dire as it is at the same time.
05:01So it's a lot that's going on for her in that scene and this relationship between her and
05:06the queen is very, is more than dear to her.
05:08So there's that as well that's stirring in her.
05:12But the beauty of it all is that working with the people I get to work with, I'm blessed
05:17enough to work with, is we, sometimes I say it's because a lot of us are from theater,
05:21but that's not right to say necessarily, but we just give each other everything we've got.
05:27It doesn't matter who the camera's focused on.
05:29So that was a day where I really was so thankful for our ensemble because, you know, when the
05:35camera was on her, you know, I was giving her everything I had and when the camera was
05:39on me, she was giving me everything she had.
05:41It didn't matter.
05:42And that, that's when you're, you know, you know you're in good company when you just,
05:47that's just what we naturally do for each other.
05:49We live in the story as many times as necessary to deliver the story as fully as we possibly can.
05:57Have I not given everything?
06:03When it came to Atuma and Namora, like when you were first getting into the characters,
06:07what was it about them that you just personally really honed into at first and kind of wanted
06:11to express through your performances?
06:13I think the story, the story how, you know, being, being, you know, she's from Mexico,
06:20I was born in Venezuela, and the representation that we're bringing, you know, in the story,
06:26you see this group of people diving into the ocean in search of a better life.
06:33So I think we can all somewhat imagine or have seen that here in the States, just people
06:39coming here in search of a better life, the American dream, and being part of that is
06:45such an honor to represent diversity, to give a chance to people in South America, Central
06:51America, to see themselves.
06:52Hey, like, hey, they look like us.
06:54They talk like us.
06:55They have accents like us.
06:57And in some ways, you know, inspire them, you know, if I can, if we can inspire at least
07:01one person.
07:04Yeah.
07:04You know, to me, at the beginning was like, well, I'm an actress and I need to focus on
07:10my process.
07:11I need to work a lot for represent with dignity to the women and to Mexican women, to Latin
07:20American women.
07:21And two days ago, when I watched the movie for the first time, to me was like in my stomach
07:28is like, whoa, what means the representation?
07:33I don't have enough word, but that this is what I feel it's to me means this movie is
07:41like, wow, I feel for the first time what means watch my face in a superhero movie for
07:50the first time, because it's not just a superhero movie.
07:53It's it's a lot for people like me, you know, change my life in every detail, personal
08:01detail.
08:02I don't know.
08:02I mean, just want to also ask about just working with Tenoch Huerta, because I mean, Calcan
08:08is like incredible character that people I mean, from the I mean, obviously, there's
08:12legend, but also Namor from the comics.
08:14What was it kind of like working with him and just developing the dynamics between your
08:17characters?
08:18It's such a it's so beautiful to see the growth that we all had together for my first
08:23day, whether it was the stunt training, the the language training, the water training
08:28to see each of us just growth into training to shooting to actually see in it is such
08:35a is such a bonding moment that, you know, these are these are not my co-stars.
08:39These are like family members that we spend so much time and it was difficult.
08:43It was it was nothing easy.
08:45And that adversity, I think, made us even closer.
08:50And I'm very happy to be here next to her and have worked with Tenoch, you know.
08:54And we were the Tenoch, Alex and me work a lot for, I don't know, one year training
09:04together every day for for for for that for that movie.
09:09It's it's crazy.
09:11We're a tripod.
09:13That's amazing.
09:14One of the most exciting things about this film is the fact that you're introducing
09:17Namor, which is a character that fans have been waiting for forever.
09:19Yeah.
09:20Is this was this always the film that he was going to be introduced or were there like
09:24considerations of introducing him earlier?
09:26Oh, that's a good question.
09:26I actually think this is the first time we seriously considered it.
09:29And and it was something that Ryan had pitched in post on the first movie.
09:34Hey, if we get to do a sequel, which was an if I would love to tackle Namor because he's
09:39he's such a compelling character.
09:41Ryan is a fan of publishing and Namor and in publishing Atlantis and Wakanda have had
09:46such great conflicts in the past.
09:47He was really interested in exploring that in a potential sequel.
09:50But but I can't say that I remember another property before this where this where that
09:55was a real consideration.
09:56Yeah, yeah.
09:57I love that you got to save it for him.
09:58Yeah, that's awesome.
09:59Totally.
09:59Yeah, we went through a lot of iterations of Namor.
10:02But they always had that at the at the core, like like the idea that he feels like it's
10:09only a matter of time before he comes in conflict with the other people that they have
10:13at the planet, like any wise leader or general or anybody, you know, I mean, you know, is
10:19that that your chances of victory improve if you can throw the first punch, so to speak,
10:24you know, so that's where he is.
10:27And then when it comes, he's very pragmatic, you know, and also that has a distaste for
10:38people from that from that part of the world.
10:40Sure.
10:40You know.
10:41Yeah.
10:41And what's the kind of that big question of like just the ethics of that?
10:45Was that kind of the heart of the movie where you started the plot from or?
10:48No, no, no, no, no, no, no, not at all.
10:50Like, I think that I think it's more like like like when we knew that that that that
10:58we settled on this idea of the underwater empire being influenced by the culture of
11:06the classic postclassic Mayan civilizations at a time when we when we made that decision,
11:12we realized that, like, OK, these are people who had a very specific
11:21history when it came to when it came to other people from from far away and what and what
11:26happened to them and how does that influence their views?
11:30Whereas Wakanda's history with with with with the other people, they've been less affected,
11:36you know, and that contrast, I thought I thought would be would be an interesting place to start.
11:41It was less it was less about who's down to do a preemptive strike or not,
11:47and more about this idea of proven vulnerability.
11:50You know what I mean?
11:51Like when things have happened to you in the past, you kind of never stop feeling vulnerable.
11:56You know what I mean?
11:57Like like in that.
11:58And I think I think that's like the the key difference that the film is
12:02that the film is kind of talking about here.
12:04Sure.
12:04Absolutely.
12:05Yeah.
12:06We know what you whisper.
12:13Well, actually, one scene I want to specifically ask about kind of within that realm is
12:16the rise telecom scene, because it is so passionate.
12:19I'm curious just what.
12:24I mean, what was it like?
12:25I mean, both to film it and and see it on the big screen.
12:30Because that was that was not part of the original script.
12:33You know, it was it was a consensuous thing that we were like, you know, the the Black Panther,
12:40you know, they have Wakanda forever.
12:42And it's so powerful.
12:43It means so much.
12:45And we're like, we're very similar to the Wakandans, you know, we need something.
12:51So after after a conversation with a language instructor, we came up with Telecom Rises,
12:58which is one, two, three.
13:07Which is like, yeah, we're here.
13:09This is our montage, so to speak.
13:11You know, let's go.
13:13Yeah.
13:13Yeah.
13:14You know, our approach to it.
13:16And there's a lot of man, a lot of phenomenal creatives that had their hands and realizing
13:23telecom, you know, not just me and Joe, but in the actors and, you know, Hannah Buechler
13:28and Ruth Carter, the visual development department at Marvel, led by Ryan Minerding.
13:35And like once we got in there, you know, like like like in terms of making the movie, it
13:42was it was really about like, what's the right amount to show in this Black Panther movie?
13:48You know, less is more.
13:50I think, you know what I mean?
13:50Like we want to we want to just enough to to to understand what we need people to understand
13:57for the story to work for them and not trying to do too much because because the film, you
14:02know, I don't know if the film could hold too much.
14:04You know, it already has so much so much.
14:06So many other things to hold.
14:08Um, so I think by doing that, that leaves that leaves the door open for for for whatever
14:13comes next.
14:14For sure.
14:15And I mean, speaking of also new characters, I mean, Riri Williams is such a wonderful
14:19spark and I just instantly excited for Ironheart.
14:22Yeah, just immediately.
14:23I'm curious just what the coordination was between the productions and just like also
14:28and how much of this movie is going to kind of set up what we see in that show.
14:31Yeah, no, if I mean that that shows an outgrowth of of how much we liked her in this movie
14:36and even on the page.
14:38So when we talked with Dominique initially, obviously the character had been written to
14:42the script and and she she was the one and only person we talked about for the role.
14:48And when she said yes and and we were down the road with the script, we also started
14:53talking to Ryan about what the show could be.
14:55So the show is a direct sequel to the movie.
14:58So Riri is carrying the experiences she had in this movie into back to back home to MIT.
15:04And there's some interesting repercussions to her adventures that will set her on a
15:08fun course.
15:08Fans have obviously very much embraced what you have contributed to the Marvel Cinematic
15:12Universe.
15:13And there has been a lot of talk about the idea of you potentially taking on one of the
15:18like bigger capstone Avenger Marvel projects.
15:21Right.
15:21I'm curious if that's something that you're personally interested in.
15:24Um, yeah, that's a great question.
15:27I how I work, you know, like personally, um, and hopefully hopefully it's not finished.
15:34Like, um, I can as a as a as a as a, you know, writer and director, I can only like do what's
15:41in front of me.
15:42You know what I'm saying?
15:42I can and I got a I'm very poor at multitasking when it comes to, you know, um, I've never
15:48really been successful at multitasking.
15:51You know, usually if I'm like trying to figure out something else while I'm doing something
15:55that the thing I'm doing suffers, you know, so I like to stay focused on this, get this
15:59movie out into the world.
16:01Then I'll start thinking about like what I want to do next, if anything, anytime soon,
16:06you know, um, a lot went into this one.
16:08Sure.
16:08Yeah.
16:09It's like I said, an absolutely incredible work, man.
16:11Thank you.
16:12Thank you, sir.
16:12It means a lot.
16:26I've heard that you actually got the opportunity to take a spear home, uh, but one question
16:37I want to ask.
16:37I just took it.
16:38You just took it.
16:39This didn't actually ask anybody.
16:40No, they knew.
16:41Yeah.
16:42Props.
16:42I mean, the guys who handle the props knew.
16:44Yeah.
16:44Well, now that we're getting to Halloween, I am curious, uh, have you ever considered
16:48taking the full on Dora Milaj uniform?
16:51No, no, no.
16:52I think that's in a museum down the road, actually, uh, the, my actual uniform, uh,
16:58I know that that's, it's in that museum.
17:01So I don't know if I could take that home, but, um, you know, huh?
17:05You set up a heist.
17:06Yeah, but yeah, no, um, you know, I think it's, I like that it lives out there in its
17:11own way.
17:11It's good as it should.