As we celebrate "Pride Month" this June, the national convenor of Pantay, a youth-led gender equality advocacy group and Pride Ph, Vince Liban, talks to Howie Severino about the state of LGBT rights in the Philippines. He explains why, in a society with wide acceptance of LGBTs, the SOGIE equality bill has languished in Congress for 24 years. The recent pronouncement of Pope Francis that priests can now bless same-sex couples was a win, says Liban, and can help open minds to the possibility of legalizing same-sex marriage.
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00:00Magandang araw, Podmates! Howie Severino muli, na nagpapaalala na nakakatalino ang mahabang attention span.
00:06Ang Hunyo ang Pride Month at okasyon para talakay ng mga LGBT issues.
00:12Ang guest natin ngayon ay si Vince Liban, National Convener of Pantay, a youth-led gender equality advocacy group,
00:19at siya rin ang National Convener ng Pride PH, which is a network of LGBT and Pride organizations.
00:28Magandang araw sa'yo, Vince, and welcome to my podcast!
00:32Magandang araw po. It's a pleasure to be here. Happy Pride, everyone!
00:37Thank you, thank you.
00:39Vince, I have seen a lot of interviews about LGBT issues, lalo na sa U.S.,
00:47where often one of the first items discussed is the pronoun that should be used for the interviewee or interviewees.
00:57How relevant is that discussion of pronouns in the Philippines?
01:01Kasi alam natin yung mga wika natin ay mas gender-neutral.
01:06Wala namang tayo talaga mga gender pronouns tulad sa English na he, she.
01:13Kasama ba yun sa usapin sa LGBT community sa Pilipinas?
01:19Well, Sir Howie, maganda na nabanggit ninyo na yung sa Filipino, ang pronouns o yung panghalip natin ay gender-neutral.
01:27Yung siya, yung sila, yung sa kanya, o yung sa iyo are easily attributed to a gender-neutral person.
01:36Kasi we really don't care, siguro, for the lack of a better term, kung ano man yung kasarian noong kausap natin sa ibang wika.
01:46Mayroon silang pag-healing or recognition doon sa gender noong kausap nila.
01:52For the LGBT community, it's also a way to affirm one's gender identity or also a way for a person to identify or self-identify their own gender.
02:05It's a habit amongst us advocates na pag nagpapakilala, pinapakilala muna namin ang aming mga sarili,
02:12kasama ang aming mga panghalip o pronouns para to establish a safe space for LGBTQ plus members to come out
02:21and at the same time affirm their identities, lalo na yung mga transgender individuals.
02:26Ang pagiging transgender po ay kapag ang kasarian mo, yung gender identity doesn't match your assigned sex at birth.
02:35So kapag ikaw ay nag-identify as babae pero ang iyong assigned sex at birth ay male, you are a transgender woman
02:44and you of course identify or you have pronouns who are for women, yung she, her, halimbawa.
02:53Important siya kasi aside from a discussion on self-determination of one's gender,
03:00it's also about establishing a safe space for everyone.
03:05Pag pinag-uusapan natin itong mga usaping LGBT, you're also saying na ito ay espasyo kung saan sila ay ligtas at mapapakinggan.
03:17Okay, of course that's relevant. Pag English yung wika na ginagamit, yun ang context yan.
03:25Kasi sa English lang naman may he, her, he, she.
03:30Sa wika Filipino, whether it's Tagalog, Bisaya, Ilocano, whatever, wala tayong, hindi nag-distinguish yung wika sa mga gender.
03:42But that being the case, what does that say about Filipino culture if language reflects culture?
03:51Kung sa ibang kultura, sa ibang wika, the pronouns matter because they establish your gender.
03:58Sa atin, hindi. What does that say about our indigenous culture?
04:04Kami po sa Pantay and many advocates I think would affirm this, na we believe Filipinos are inherently kind and respectful to one another.
04:14Obviously meron tayong yung pakikipagkapwa. Nakikita natin yung kapwa tao natin bilang kapantay at hindi bilang ibang tao.
04:25Ang sabi ng mga historians at mga psikologistang Filipinos, it's also about putting oneself in the shoes of others.
04:35So kaya natin to empathize with them. At kaya natin makipagkapwa.
04:40Sa mga historians naman din, ito raw ay isang manifestation noong inherent natin na pagrespeto doon sa people with diverse nakasarian.
04:51In pre-colonial times, ang mga queer people ngayon, mga LGBT people ngayon, ay itinuturing na pinuno or leader ng kanilang pamayanan.
05:10May mga babaylan tayo, yung mga tinatawag natin ngayon na transgender or gender non-conforming individuals
05:19who affirm the role of women or priestesses in their communities and they're leaders of the community.
05:26Malaki ang role ng mga LGBT people before at hindi lang ito nakikita doon sa Pilipinas, sa pamayanang Pilipino.
05:35Other cultures also exhibit respect towards people of diverse gender.
05:42At nakakatuwa kasi nag-reflect siya sa wika natin at dinadala pa rin natin hanggang ngayon.
05:50Okay, sinasabi mo nga na likas sa kulturang Pilipino yung respeto, yung pagkapantay-pantay ng mga gender,
06:01whether you're male, female, transgender, babaylan, gay, lesbian, etc.
06:08Kaya may contradiction kasi ang daming issues natin ngayon.
06:14Yung ating lipunan ngayon ay tila nahuhuli sa ibang lipunan.
06:21A lot of social policies including LGBT policies or policies that affect LGBTs.
06:30I mean, there are many societies now where legal na ang same-sex marriage.
06:37So how do you reconcile that?
06:39Meron tayong likas na kulturang ganito, an indigenous culture that's inclusive,
06:46that respects all kinds of people, it's inherent sa atin yung empathy and all that.
06:53And at the same time, structurally, ang daming balakid sa tunay na equality sa ating lipunan sa panahon ngayon.
07:07Hindi po namin maikakaila actually na even if the surveys say halimbawa na 70% of Filipinos or more than 70% of Filipinos support LGBT people,
07:19that's 7 out of 10 Filipinos na nagsasabi na tanggapin na natin yung mga bakla at lesbiana,
07:25nandun pa rin yung kakulangan ng batas na nag-recognize ng karapatan ng mga LGBT people.
07:31Nandun pa rin, syempre, yung mga tao na naniniwala na hindi dapat binibigyan ng karapatan ang mga LGBT.
07:40It's ironic, really, because in the Philippines, kung mayroon kang gano'n kataas na public support,
07:48dapat nag-translate siya doon sa mga batas.
07:53But we also found out that there are, of course, enemies of equality kasi,
07:58who hold positions of power that could potentially delay the passage of such important laws.
08:06They usually hold positions like Senate President halimbawa or a Majority Leader
08:11or even a Chairperson of a Committee on Human Rights that would prevent the passage of such laws.
08:19Nakakalungkot isipin na may mga ganito but we remain hopeful,
08:23especially for the SOGIE Equality Bill to finally pass after 24 years in Congress.
08:32Because it's also a reflection of the dreams and aspirations of the LGBTQ plus community and their families.
08:39Naniniwala din po kami na sa haba-haba man ng panahon na isinalang yung mga batas na ito,
08:47dumaan siya sa maayos at tamang proseso ng konsultasyon, ng debate, at napakinggan ang lahat ng sektor ng lipunan.
08:57So, wala na tayong, actually, dapat masyadong mahabang pinag-uusapan.
09:04Kasi if you support equality, you should support the SOGIE Equality Bill.
09:11Okay, just to refresh our listeners and viewers,
09:14ang SOGIE ay Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity Expression Equality Bill.
09:22That's the SOGIE Bill. Sabi mo nga matagal nang nakasalang yan.
09:25I think it was first filed in year 2000.
09:29So, 24 years na. Isa na sigurong sa mga longest running bills na tinatalakay ng Kongreso.
09:38Hindi mapasapasa. But in a nutshell, Vince, what is the SOGIE Bill?
09:44What will it promise LGBT and society in general?
09:52The SOGIE Equality Bill is an anti-discrimination bill that protects all Filipinos on the basis of discrimination,
10:00on the basis of sexual orientation, gender identity and expression.
10:05Yung sexual orientation ay kung paano po kayo nagmamahalo, na-attract sa ibang tao.
10:10Gender identity, how you identify yourself and gender expression, how you express yourselves.
10:16Sa atin, nakikita natin na marginalized group in terms of sexual orientation, gender identity and expression,
10:26ang mga LGBT people. Of course, lahat ng mga Pilipino ay mayroong sexual orientation, gender identity and expression o SOGIE.
10:34If you are straight, halimbawa, or heterosexual, you are attracted to the different sex, that's your sexual orientation.
10:41If your gender identity is a man and you're fortunate to have aligned your gender identity with your assigned sex at birth,
10:49you're a cisgender person, you're a cis man, that's also a gender identity.
10:53Lahat po ng tao ay may SOGIE.
10:58The SOGIE Equality Bill offers the promise of breaking discrimination or the barriers to equal opportunities.
11:10Kasama po dito, syempre, yung discrimination na nararanasan sa eskwelahan.
11:14Halimbawa, ng maraming LGBT students, nandyan din yung discrimination sa workplace.
11:20Mga LGBT people na hindi natatanggap sa trabaho, hindi na pro-promote sa trabaho,
11:25dahil lang sa kanilang kasarian.
11:29At syempre, nandyan din yung discrimination sa access to public services.
11:34May mga public services po na hindi na tatamasa ng ilang mga LGBT families,
11:42LGBT individuals and their households.
11:46At ito sana yung gusto nating i-address.
11:51Naniniwala tayo na kapag may SOGIE Equality Bill,
11:54queer people or LGBT people are free to contribute to society, to nation building.
12:02There have been a lot of studies na nagsasabing may economic cost ang discrimination.
12:08Pero kapag nag-establish ko naman ng inclusive policies,
12:12you also promote economic development.
12:16So naniniwala kami na tsaka ang discrimination, sir Howie.
12:20Pero mas happy kapag may equality.
12:46How would that work under the SOGIE Bill?
12:48In a way, that would be a form of discrimination if you don't allow people who identify as women
12:53to use restrooms for women, diba?
12:56Bathrooms are just one aspect of an incident involving discrimination, halimbawa.
13:03Marami ang mga LGBT people, especially trans people na nagkakasakit po sa bato.
13:08It's actually a health concern.
13:10Dahil lang hindi sila makapag-CR ng maayos because sometimes they also experience harassment and bullying
13:19just to access comfort rooms.
13:23Pagdating po doon sa comfort rooms, the SOGIE Equality Bill actually offers two options.
13:29Yung una, gender inclusive bathrooms. At pangalawa, gender neutral bathrooms.
13:35Sa single-use na bathroom, halimbawa, sa ating mga tahanan, gender neutral naman talaga siya, diba?
13:43Kasi iisa lang ang CR para kay nanay, para kay tatay, para kay ate at kuya,
13:48at kung meron man silang mga kapatid na LGBT.
13:51So wala naman talaga siyang problema.
13:53But pagdating doon sa comfort, marami nagsasabi na,
13:57Ako baka prone yan sa abuse and sa harassment.
14:02Sir Howie, sinasabi mga gano'n.
14:04But I want to assure you that many of the local government units that have enacted their anti-discrimination ordinances
14:13have not experienced such.
14:15Even mga educational institutions that have adopted a gender inclusive and gender neutral bathrooms,
14:21zero cases of sexual harassment.
14:24Because ang sexual harassment happens because of sexual harassers and not LGBT people.
14:31And we have laws that would protect all of us against sexual harassment.
14:36You have the Anti-Sexual Harassment Act, you have the Safe Spaces Act.
14:40So may batas para doon.
14:42At hindi ito dapat maging dahilan para pigilan ang SOGIE equality bill sa pagpasa.
14:49CRs are a common concern for everybody.
14:52Kasi lahat tayo gumagamit yan.
14:53So I need to ask you a little bit more about this.
14:56So itong gender neutral or all gender bathrooms,
15:01these are CRs na may mga urinal, may mga toilet stalls at babae, lalake, LGBTQ,
15:11kahit sino pwedeng gumamit, right?
15:13Wala naman pong all gender restrooms na para sa lahat.
15:17Kapag gender neutral ang pinag-uusapan, it's single use comfort rooms.
15:21So pagpasaan lang po talaga sya.
15:23That's the idea.
15:24For establishments to at least have an option for a single use gender neutral restroom.
15:31Pagdating naman po sa gender inclusive comfort rooms actually,
15:35hindi naman sya about, you know, like for a women's bathroom to welcome all.
15:44It's about the women's bathroom welcoming women.
15:50And in this case, kasama po doon ng transgender women.
15:54Yung transgender woman naman can go inside or avail also of the gender neutral single use restroom.
16:05And meron na bang modelo nito? May mga example na nito sa Pilipinas?
16:13Yes po. In the many local government units that passed,
16:18Quezon City for one, ini-implement na sya at least sa City Hall.
16:24Their gendered restrooms are inclusive and at the same time,
16:29there's an option for gender neutral restroom.
16:33Again, hindi po natin gusto na magkaroon ng LGBT restroom.
16:36Ang gusto natin ay gender neutral restroom.
16:39I always tell the story of when African Americans were denied the use of bathrooms.
16:48Dati sinesegregate yung mga white sa black Americans, di ba?
16:53And it's the same that's happening now.
16:56Yung fear natin na ang black woman before ay bawal mag-CR sa CR ng white woman is unfounded.
17:06We realize that eventually those fears are because we do not understand the different identities of these people.
17:18And at the same time, nandun naman talaga sila para umihilang or umar na.
17:25So, linawin ko lang, yung gender inclusive or all gender CR,
17:33hindi ko lang kunyoyon ng tamang description, is yung single use, tama?
17:39Hindi yung halo-halo yung mga tao sa isang CR?
17:45The single use restrooms are gender neutral or all gender restroom, yung mga single use.
17:52Pero po, mayroon pa ring mga gendered restrooms, whether for women or for men siya,
18:00we hope these restrooms could be inclusive also.
18:05Pero ang naging compromise nga po doon, yun po yung pangarap ng mga advocates, of course, for them to be included.
18:13Again, hindi po natin sinasabi na ang isang lalaki ay mag-CR sa women's bathroom.
18:19Ang sinasabi natin, we will add options of single use restrooms for all genders.
18:27Okay. And if a transgender woman is not allowed to use a women's CR, that's a form of discrimination?
18:42Unless there's an option for a gender neutral bathroom.
18:46Okay. And if that person is forced to go to the men's restroom, would that be considered harassment or discrimination?
18:58Yes. If a transgender woman is forced to go to the men's restroom, especially kung mayroon naman pong ideal na gender neutral single use restroom,
19:09I think that's already bordering harassment.
19:13Again, wala naman pong inaapakan na tao ang isang transgender woman na gusto lang umihi.
19:20Kung pagbabawalan mo siya na mag-CR doon sa gender neutral bathroom at sasabihin mo pa sa kanya na umihi ka doon sa panlalaki,
19:28kahit wala naman siyang inaapakang ibang tao or ginagambala na ibang tao, that would already border harassment and discrimination.
19:39And may kaso siya. May mga paraan, may mechanisms na mag-file siya ng complaint based on that.
19:49Yes. But the proposed bill is not punitive, Sir Howie.
19:54Actually, the current version of the bill is simply, the first offense is gender sensitivity training.
20:03Baka akala kasi ng mga tao, ikukulong agad sila.
20:07We believe in restorative justice.
20:09And at the same time, we believe people can, of course, be gender sensitive and inclusive for people.
20:16Lalong-lalo na wala namang inaapakang ibang tao.
20:19Okay, kasi may mga nagsasabi na yun sa O.G. Bill, that's the first step towards same-sex marriage.
20:28And of course, that also begs the question from a lot of people, what's wrong with same-sex marriage?
20:35But just to clarify, the SOGIE Equality Bill will not legalize same-sex marriage, right?
20:42It will not. It's not a marriage equality bill.
20:46We also included there, we hope the SOGIE Equality Bill equalizes access to public services except marriage license.
20:57And if you want to legalize marriage equality, the Supreme Court also said that it might require amending the Family Code.
21:05And we leave it to Congress to do such.
21:08So this is not a marriage equality bill.
21:11But marriage equality is part of your agenda, right?
21:16I mean, that is a goal for the LGBT community, tama?
21:21Yes. Marriage equality, even in the forms of civil unions or civil partnerships, definitely.
21:28That's one of the dreams of the community.
21:30For the state to recognize the right to love and the right to have a family.
21:37Because we exist and we already have rainbow families here in the Philippines.
21:41In Pride pa lang, Sir Howie, last year we had more than 300 sign-ups ng rainbow families.
21:50In Quezon City also, they're already implementing a commitment ceremony for LGBT couples.
21:57There's also the right to care card that would allow LGBT couples to be medical proxies of their partners should something happen to them.
22:06This wasn't legalized, of course, because wala namang kasal para sa dalawang bakla o dalawang tipo.
22:16We found ways how the legal system would allow two couples, same-sex couples, to still have that benefit of being medical proxies.
22:26You know, I've attended a same-sex wedding.
22:30And there was even a religious person, of course, not sanctioned by the Catholic Church.
22:39Pero there was a religious person who blessed the couple and there was a ceremony.
22:51What would be the significance of this?
22:53That's not recognized by the state, obviously.
22:56Hindi ka mabibigay ng marriage license kasi wala pa ng marriage equality law.
23:01But why go through with that?
23:05With the ceremony.
23:07For many couples, I also attended some ceremonial weddings for LGBT couples.
23:14It's an affirmation of their love.
23:16It's an affirmation of their commitment to each other.
23:21Nakahit nakatalikod ang ibang tao sa kanila, mahal nila yung isa't-isa.
23:27And I think that's what matters.
23:30But of course, sa aming advocates, i-recognize man siya ng simbahan, actually, kebs na ako.
23:38I would leave it to the church if they want to recognize us or not.
23:43But in terms of the right to be recognized by the states, have equal benefits, for example, to your spouse,
23:51other countries are already doing that.
23:55Ang hirap naman, Sir Howie, na hindi i-recognize halimbawa ng isang estado, ang isang couple na bakla.
24:07Sampung taon na silang magkasama.
24:10Pero wala pa ring spousal benefits.
24:14Halimbawa, lately nga lang po na isama yung benefits sa insurance.
24:19Lately lang nahanapan ng way yung medical proxy through right to care, among other things.
24:25Pagdating doon sa pag-adopt halimbawa ng mga bata,
24:30ang nangyayari ngayon, LGBT couples, isa lang yung magiging magulang ng bata.
24:36So magiging solo parent pa siya.
24:38So there's always a roundabout law that would hopefully provide some band-aid solutions.
24:48But it's still not recognition of the love that we have for our families.
24:54So medyo nakakalungkot siya, but we try to reaffirm our existence and at the same time our love.
25:03Kasi kasama dyan sa mga disadvantages nang wala tayong marriage equality law.
25:10Pag kailangan ng next of kin, halimbawa may emergency, kailangan blood relative.
25:17Kasi walang official spouse.
25:20Kahit sabi mo nga parang 20 plus years na magkasama yung couple,
25:24hindi pa rin siya kinoconsider na next of kin.
25:28And then hindi siya automaticong nakakamana sa ilalim ng batas.
25:34Especially doon sa mga businesses o kaya mga ipon nila together.
25:41Kung nakapangalan halimbawa sa isang tao lang at sa hindi magandang twist of fate ay nategi yung isang person na ito,
25:52hindi automatic na mapupunta sa partner niya unless they have prepared some legal remedies for that.
26:04How many countries in the world already have same-sex marriage?
26:09Yes. Ang alam ko na sa 30 plus na bansa, sa Asia, nandyan na ang Taiwan, nandyan na rin ang Nepal, halimbawa.
26:22And lately, isa sa mga nagpre-prepare ng marriage equality law na ipasa ay ang Thailand.
26:30These are the leading countries in terms of LGBT rights in Asia.
26:35And I think Japan is also in talks of adopting and legalizing that
26:39because they've already implemented such laws in certain provinces sa Japan.
26:45So there's a trend.
26:47I know some Filipino couples who went to the States para magpakasal.
26:54Ano ang applicability niyan sa Pilipinas?
26:59What's the advantage of that if you get married in the States but you live in the Philippines?
27:04Yes.
27:05What difference would it make?
27:07Technically, we also talked to several experts about this.
27:12Technically, hindi sila marirecognize as mag-asawa pagdating dito sa Pilipinas.
27:21That's been a problem especially to diplomats halimbawa who are gay.
27:27Gay diplomats sila from other countries, they're married.
27:31Pero pagdating dito sa Pilipinas, yung kanilang partner ay nililis na lamang bilang household.
27:38So medyo degrading yun for the diplomats.
27:41So hindi kinikilala ng Philippine government yung married same-sex couples?
27:47Kahit legally married sila sa ibang bansa, pagdating dito, they're considered unmarried?
27:53Yes.
27:54They were tagged as household helpers ng kanilang mga pamilya.
28:00Para magkaroon lang ng diplomatic cover.
28:03Yes.
28:04Kasi hindi pwede yung partner. Walang partner status.
28:07Yes po.
28:09I think either the DFA or the DOJ has already made some amendments to their policies on this,
28:16especially for diplomats alone.
28:18Pero para sa mga non-diplomats, of course, kapag kayo ay mag-asawa sa ibang bansa,
28:23pagdumating kayo sa Pilipinas, mag-best friends na lang kayo.
28:28But officially, nakalista ka sa embassy as household staff or household help?
28:39Yes.
28:40Wow.
28:41I think that's what happened. I remember this.
28:43This was a lesson sa akin po when I was in college by our gender and politics professor.
28:50Igigib ko naman po sa DFA.
28:52I think there have been efforts to amend their policies to address this concern
28:57that has been raised by the diplomats.
29:01Okay. So there are about 30 countries in the world na may same-sex marriage.
29:07How long do you think it will take for the Philippines to legalize same-sex marriage?
29:13Yan po ang mahirap sagutin.
29:15Kasi kung RH bill niya tumagal ng pagkatagal-tagal, ngayon SOGIE equality bill.
29:23But I'm very hopeful that the stars are aligning for the SOGIE equality bill to pass this 19th Congress.
29:32Yung una-una po ay dahil number one, nag-unite ang mga LGBT groups ngayon from different sectors.
29:40And we will be launching the Equality Alliance.
29:43This will be the biggest alliance of advocates for the SOGIE equality bill.
29:48Second, the international community is also backing us up.
29:52There will be 20-plus embassies attending Pride.
29:56And they all support the passage of the SOGIE equality bill.
30:00And third, I think with the new Senate leadership,
30:05there will be a greater chance for the SOGIE equality bill to at least be given a chance sa plenary
30:10na sana ay mapag-usapan naman siya at ma-discuss ulit yung kung mayroon silang mga concerns or reservations.
30:19Pagdating po sa marriage equality, it might take maybe longer.
30:29But I think discussions about marriage equality should already begin next Congress.
30:36So what's the issue blocking or what are the issues blocking the SOGIE equality bill?
30:43Mainly po ay myths.
30:47Yung nabanggit po natin kanina, akala nila ay tungkol siya sa marriage equality.
30:53Of course, we recognize that there are people who support the LGBTQ plus community
30:59but might not be in favor of marriage equality yet.
31:02Nandun din po yung mga fears, halimbawa, na akala po nila kapag nagkaroon ng SOGIE equality bill,
31:10ang mga bakla ay magiging super special elite class.
31:15So SOGIE equality bill will just prevent discrimination from happening, thereby equalizing opportunities.
31:23Pangatlo, nandyan din po yung mga fears na queer people daw or LGBT people will take up space.
31:32Doon sa mga espasyon na hindi naman sila dapat nandoon.
31:36Pero magandang itanong, anong ba yung mga espasyon ito?
31:41Kasi baka naman pala these spaces are denied to LGBT people in the first place
31:47because discrimination is not a human right.
31:50I think that's a basic tenet of the SOGIE equality bill.
31:55Discrimination in whatever form is not a basic human right. It's not a human right.
31:59Marami rin po nagsasabi na this is anti-religion.
32:05Marami rin nagsasabi na this is anti-religion.
32:08However, there are religious groups, faith-based networks who have already shown support to the SOGIE equality bill.
32:18You have the Iglesia Filipina Independiente, yung Anglipayan Church, nandyan din ang Open Table MCC.
32:26Lately, in a forum we attended organized by the UPGLPP, Gender Law and Policy Program,
32:35the CBCP attended, the Catholic Bishops' Churches of the Philippines attended.
32:41They said they are supportive of the SOGIE equality bill,
32:46of the idea that no people should be discriminated.
32:50I think that's what matters.
32:51Speaking of which, Vince.
32:53We know that Pope Francis recently formally approved blessing by Catholic priests of same-sex couples.
33:04Not marrying them in church yet, but blessing.
33:11Pope Francis has been defending this.
33:12Kasi siyempre, there's a segment of the Catholic Church na parang talagang vehemently opposing that.
33:22Ang sagot ni Pope Francis recently, nabasa ko lang kanina,
33:27nobody gets scandalized if I give my blessings to a businessman who exploits people.
33:34And this is a very grave sin.
33:36But they get scandalized if I give my blessing to a homosexual.
33:39Sinabi niya doon sa isang interview.
33:43So, this is considered already a shift for the Catholic Church
33:49because of course we know traditionally the Catholic hierarchy has condemned LGBT.
33:57It's immoral, it's a sin, etc.
34:00But now, Pope Francis seems to have a more inclusive approach to the community
34:10even if it's not full-blown, sanctifying same-sex marriage.
34:17So, how significant is this?
34:20Itong pagbibigay ng blessing ng mga pare sa same-sex couples,
34:27is this now becoming common in the Philippines?
34:29We consider this a win actually, Sir Howie.
34:33Marami nagsasabi na blessing lang naman, but it's still a blessing.
34:37It's a symbolic gesture from the Catholic Church to welcome LGBTQ plus Catholics
34:43because there are LGBTQ plus Catholics and I think that's a good recognition.
34:47Nabangit din po yan actually ng CBCP doon sa forum that I was talking about.
34:53Sinabi nila kung ang simbahan nga ay kayang mag-bless ng mga bagay, ng mga hayo,
34:59pakit ipagkakaip natin ang blessing na ito para sa LGBTQ plus individuals?
35:07This is recognition that queer people have always been part of religion, of religious activities.
35:17Itanggiman natin pero ang mga bakla nag-aayos ng mga poon.
35:22Ang mga bakla ang nag-aayos ng mga activities sa barangay kapag may padasal.
35:27Ang mga bakla ang nag-celebrate ng ilan sa mga religious activities din ng simbahan.
35:36Bahagi talaga ng pamayanan at ng simbahan ng mga bakla.
35:41I think this is again a shift towards acceptance.
35:47Hindi man siya full acceptance siguro for many LGBT advocates but I consider this a win
35:57for the LGBTQ plus community and for the Philippines in general.
36:02This is after all an era of healing.
36:05And if you consider that it's the Catholic Church who influences a lot of the political opposition
36:12to progress on LGBT issues including the SOGIE bill and marriage equality.
36:20So it's actually a step forward towards accomplishing those, wouldn't you think?
36:25Kasi kung yung mga politiko na nag-a-oppose dyan o yung mga communities or mga segments ng population
36:31nag-a-oppose dyan sa mga ganyang social legislation ay nag-a-oppose dahil nga sa kanilang Catholic beliefs
36:38or religious beliefs, pag ganoon na yung naging attitude ng simbahan, maaaring lumuwag din yung opposition, wouldn't you say?
36:46Hopefully po. However, we also notice na sometimes it's not the Catholics who really actively oppose
36:55but religious fundamentalists, often mga extreme evangelicals.
37:01Actually po, maraming ng LGBT advocates are proud Catholics themselves
37:09and they really love Pope Francis for his pronouncements.
37:14It's something that we admire because it preaches love,
37:18something that all religions should be founded on and not hate
37:25because discrimination is also not a religious right.
37:29But Catholics comprise the vast majority of Filipinos, no?
37:34At itong sinasabi mong the strongest opposition comes from itong mga religious fundamentalists na
37:42I suppose these are not Catholics or strictly traditional Catholics, no?
37:47They're not close to being a majority and yet sinasabi mo, they're leading the opposition
37:53or they're providing the strongest opposition to this kind of social policy.
37:59So, ang lakas nila, considering they're not really close to even a plurality or a majority of the population.
38:07I agree po. Kaya rin based doon sa research namin na kung aabot man sa period of voting,
38:14ang SOGIE equality bill, we will win in both chambers of Congress.
38:18And we have proven that in the 12th and 17th Congress, the SOGIE equality bill passed,
38:24third and final reading in the House of Representatives.
38:27However, yun nga po, meron at meron talaga sa Senado na magagrand stand, no?
38:33At kayang idelay ang bill because of their powers.
38:37So, yun ang pinakamalaki naming balakin.
38:43That's why kung pagbibigyan lang ng chance na i-hear siya sa plenary at i-flesh out ang debate.
38:52We're sure we have already addressed the concerns for 24 years.
38:58We've integrated already the suggestions of the opponents and those that have reservations to it.
39:06Pagbotohan lang. And of course, we hope that our legislators say yes to equality.
39:13Okay. So, it's Pride Month, no? And you're National Convener of Pride PH
39:20and one of the organizers of Pride activities. So, anong magaganap sa buwan na to?
39:25Okay po. We're excited because last year, we made history as the biggest Pride march in Southeast Asia
39:31with 110,000 attendees. This year, we're expecting double the fun and double the everything.
39:38From the sign-ups ng volunteers sa marchers, sa partners namin, everything doubled.
39:45That's why we're also expecting another historic event for the LGBTQ plus community this year
39:52with the Love Laban to Everyone Pride PH Festival at Quezon Memorial Circle on June 22.
39:58Darating po ang Amsterdam Rainbow Dress. It's a sign of love from the international community.
40:06And it's also a reflection of the Quezon City being a safe haven to LGBTQ plus individuals.
40:14We will also have a Pride march. Two Pride marches actually that will eventually converge in the Quezon Memorial Circle.
40:24We also have Pride Expo for organizations, merchants, LGBT-owned businesses, NGOs, and allied NGOs.
40:35Can I just interrupt, Vince? You mentioned that Quezon City is a safe haven for the LGBT community.
40:42Bakit sinasabi mo yan na Quezon City in particular? Why are you singling them out as being a safe haven for your community?
40:50Well, it's notable that Quezon City passed the first anti-discrimination ordinance in the country.
40:58I think that's in 2003. And now it's a lot.
41:03Actually, 37% of the Philippine population now reside in LGUs with anti-discrimination ordinances.
41:11So, napakalaking bahagi po noon doon sa campaign natin for equality.
41:21That more and more local government units are supporting the fight for equality.
41:26In Quezon City, we have Mayor Joy Belmontena who's very supportive of LGBTQ plus rights from the Right to Care Card,
41:36anti-discrimination ordinances, trans health guidelines, and this year, meron din pong graduation rights
41:46where transgender people will be allowed to graduate na hindi ginugupitan yung kanilang mga buhok
41:55o kaya na-affirm nila yung kanilang gender identity.
42:00Marami itong mga activities na binanggit mo sa Quezon City igaganap. Nabanggit mo yung Quezon City Circle.
42:06Meron bang mga ibang lungsod na may similar activities? Are you hearing about other places na may mga pride march, may mga celebration din?
42:17Yes po. In Pride PH, we actually have 11 pride events that will happen simultaneously on June 22 and that's only on June 22.
42:32Actually po, meron din mga events or pride events sa buong buwan ng June and sometimes hindi pa nga po June.
42:41Meron po sa Northern Luzon Pride sa Baguio City, Quirino Pride, Romblon Pride, Albay Pride, Iloilo Pride, Cebu City Pride,
42:53Catarman Pride in Northern Samar, Magsaysay Pride in Misamis Oriental, Iligan City Pride, Cagayan de Oro Pride, and Caraga Pride.
43:02Ito po yung mga kasabay natin na magpa-pride this June 22.
43:06I'm curious, are there pride activities in Muslim Mindanao?
43:13I think po, meron attempts ang Mindanao Pride na contingent. Not necessarily Muslim Mindanao.
43:26I think meron pong nag-attempt before sa Zamboanga. I'm not sure pong kasama sila sa Pride this year.
43:33Okay. Gusto ko lang magpasalamat sa iyong oras, sa insights, at sa iyong servisyon sa lipunan.
43:40Vince Liban, National Convener of Pride PH. Mabuhay ka.
43:46Marami salamat po and thank you for this opportunity.
43:50Again, we leave you with a message na we hope you could support the fight for equality para sa ating mga pamilya at sa mga susunod pang-henerasyon.
43:59Dahil tsaka ang discrimination at mas happy pag may equality. Maraming salamat po.
44:05Hi, I'm Howie Severino. Check out the Howie Severino Podcast. New episodes will stream every Thursday.
44:11Listen for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and other platforms.
44:29you