Senate Foreign Relations Committee Holds A Hearing On FY 2025 Budget Requests For The Middle East
The Senate Foreign Relations Committee held a hearing on Tuesday on FY 2025 budget request for the Middle East and North Africa.
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NewsTranscript
00:00:00We are going to convene the subcommittee today to discuss the FY25 budget request for the
00:00:06Middle East and North Africa.
00:00:08Thank you to our witnesses for being here.
00:00:10We're going to start with some opening statements from myself and the Ranking Member, and then
00:00:14we'll get to statements from witnesses and questions.
00:00:18From the unconscionable terrorist attacks of October 7th, to increasing threats to traffic
00:00:24in the Red Sea, to the spiraling humanitarian disaster inside Gaza, to rising tensions on
00:00:30the Israel-Lebanon border, to the unforeseen transition of power in Iran, the Middle East
00:00:35has been in an unusual amount of tumult and violence since this subcommittee last met
00:00:41to review the State Department's regional budget.
00:00:43Amidst this chaos, I have one thought that dominates all others.
00:00:49Thank goodness, at this moment, that we have Joe Biden's steady hand on the wheel.
00:00:55Since October 7th, President Biden and his team, including our witnesses, in particular
00:01:00Secretary Leaf, have been tirelessly working the phones and crisscrossing the region to
00:01:05secure a comprehensive deal that ends the conflict in Gaza and releases the hostages.
00:01:11And let me underscore how critical it is that this conflict come to a close.
00:01:16I want Hamas's ability to launch another terrorist attack destroyed.
00:01:20I want our sacred ally Israel to live without the threat of violence or attack.
00:01:27And it's important to note that this conflict could end tomorrow if Hamas surrenders.
00:01:33But they won't, because they don't give a damn about the Palestinian people.
00:01:38But I do not understand how Israel's current military strategy in Gaza, or their current
00:01:43lack of a strategy for what to do once the military campaign ends, effectuates either
00:01:49of those goals.
00:01:50Right now, to me, it appears that Israel's Gaza policy is guaranteeing that the threats
00:01:53to Israel continue, not that they are eliminated.
00:01:57Leveling Gaza to the ground and unnecessarily killing thousands of innocent civilians in
00:02:01the process, it has a short-term moral cost, but it has a long-term strategic cost.
00:02:05The long-term strategic cost is that the carnage can become a boon to terrorist recruiting.
00:02:11That's what we saw in the aftermath of our invasions to Iraq and Afghanistan, and I don't
00:02:14understand why we are not learning those lessons.
00:02:18But just as important as bringing the violence to an end is planning for the day after, because
00:02:21without a plan for how to rebuild and secure Gaza, under viable new political leadership,
00:02:26terrorist groups like Hamas are just going to fill the vacuum, feeding on the despair
00:02:30of the Palestinian people and posing a continued threat to Israel.
00:02:34It's no secret that right now there is not a viable plan for the day after in Gaza.
00:02:41I'm glad that the administration is prioritizing planning with regional partners and like-minded
00:02:46allies in the EU and the G7, and I'd like to hear more about that today.
00:02:51Part of this day-after plan has to include the creation of an independent Palestinian
00:02:54state, not just vague promises of a pathway to a state that never really come to fruition,
00:02:59but a concrete, irreversible timeline that culminates in statehood for the Palestinian people.
00:03:04Connected to a Palestinian state are recent discussions between Israel and Saudi Arabia
00:03:08to normalize relations.
00:03:10Normalized relations would be a very good thing.
00:03:13Reports suggest, though, that the price the Saudis are seeking for such an agreement is
00:03:18a NATO-like security guarantee from the United States, as well as control over the cycle
00:03:24of nuclear enrichment.
00:03:25That is an extraordinarily high price to command, and I am skeptical that such commitments
00:03:31would ultimately benefit the United States.
00:03:35We only give those commitments to our most trusted allies, and over and over again, most
00:03:39recently, just last week, when the Saudis refused to sign the Ukraine peace statement,
00:03:46we watch as Saudi Arabia plays us off against our adversaries.
00:03:51Pulling back to look at the region more broadly, there are other key questions this committee
00:03:54needs to ask today about how we allocate funding.
00:03:56For instance, does it make sense to habitually renew Egypt's military aid package of $1.3
00:04:03billion, the exact same amount we have provided every year to Egypt since 1987?
00:04:10Does it make sense to provide just $6.5 million to civil society in Tunisia, when those organizations
00:04:17are striving to protect human rights and fundamental freedoms in an increasingly forbidding environment?
00:04:24What crisis will we create in Jordan or Syria or Lebanon if we go another year without U.S.
00:04:30funding to UNRWA?
00:04:31Now, of course, our assistance dollars can have real impact, and there is no shortage
00:04:36of success stories that we should talk about as well.
00:04:39Support to our Arab partners and to Israel's Iron Dome system were critical in repelling
00:04:44Iran's unprecedented missile and drone attack on April 13th.
00:04:49In Lebanon, our support for the Lebanese Armed Forces has been instrumental in maintaining
00:04:54stability as political and economic elites push that country to the brink of collapse.
00:05:00And while there is always room to do more, our humanitarian aid has saved tens of thousands
00:05:05of lives in Gaza, Syria, and Yemen over the last decade.
00:05:10So we convene this subcommittee to review the State Department and USAID's budget in
00:05:15the region at a critical moment, and I look forward to our discussion today.
00:05:18With that, I'll turn it over to the Ranking Member.
00:05:21Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:05:22Last week's nominations hearing was a good opportunity to look at some of the challenges
00:05:27in the Middle East and North Africa.
00:05:29I'm very much looking forward to going deeper into these issues today with our witnesses
00:05:33who lead State and USAID's current policies and realities of what is perhaps the hottest
00:05:40of spots in a world full of them.
00:05:44And I hope that this deeper examination, in it we can have a frank discussion about
00:05:50what is working and what is not working.
00:05:53The reality is that a nearly nuclear Iran is as bellicose as ever.
00:05:59Russia and China are ascendant in the region.
00:06:02In Europe, there are growing voices urging disengagement.
00:06:06Maritime security challenges in the Red Sea are constraining global commerce.
00:06:12Nascent alliances of our partners are at risk of crumbling while those of our adversaries
00:06:17are being strengthened.
00:06:19Humanitarian assistance principles of neutrality and access are at their lowest post-World
00:06:24War II levels.
00:06:26Terrorist organizations are on the rebound.
00:06:29And smuggling of drugs, arms, and people is rampant, among other challenges.
00:06:35That's the bad news.
00:06:36Fortunately, there's some good news as well, and perhaps even more opportunity.
00:06:41Gulf countries have been eager to normalize relations with each other and Israel.
00:06:47Energy diplomacy, managed properly, is a generational opportunity to drive out Russian influence.
00:06:54Iraq is on stronger footing.
00:06:56And the recent potent and impotent displays of Israeli and Iranian, respectively, missile
00:07:02and anti-missile capabilities are among those positives.
00:07:08State and USAID's joint regional strategy for the MENA region is now two years old.
00:07:13A lot has happened in that time, and we don't need to dwell on how goals like enhanced prospects
00:07:18for a viable two-state solution for Israel-Palestine look in hindsight.
00:07:24But we do want to hear how this budget request reflects an updated view of that strategy's
00:07:29viability.
00:07:30I'd also like to get the administration's take on the relative priority areas in the
00:07:35region in terms of stability, countering violent extremism, supporting civil society,
00:07:41bolstering democracy, economic growth, et cetera.
00:07:45Obviously, the preferred answer is always all of the above, everywhere.
00:07:49We hear that a lot.
00:07:50But that's an aspiration, an aspiration, not a strategy.
00:07:55To the extent you can provide some specifics today, we're eager to hear them.
00:08:00We'll have specific questions for each of you, and I look forward to turning to that
00:08:03in a moment.
00:08:04Mr. Chairman.
00:08:05It's now my pleasure to introduce Barbara Leaf, Assistant Secretary of State for the
00:08:09Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs.
00:08:11Assistant Secretary Leaf, well known to this committee, previously served as U.S. Ambassador
00:08:15to the UAE and Senior Director for the Middle East and North Africa at the National Security
00:08:20Council.
00:08:21Also joining us today is Ms. Jean Pryor, Deputy Assistant Administrator of the Bureau for
00:08:26the Middle East at USAID.
00:08:29Ms. Pryor previously served as Director for the Office of Afghanistan Affairs and Deputy
00:08:34Director for the Office of Iraq Reconstruction.
00:08:37I will hand the floor to both of you for five minutes of opening comments, and then we'll
00:08:40engage in discussion.
00:08:41Ambassador Leaf.
00:08:44Thank you.
00:08:45Chairman Murphy, Ranking Member Yang, members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting
00:08:48me to testify on the President's FY 2025 budget request for the Middle East and North Africa,
00:08:54a region that remains of vital importance to U.S. interests.
00:08:57While the Israel-Hamas conflict and escalation by Iran and its proxies complicate our work
00:09:03substantially, the Administration is fully committed to leading the collective action
00:09:06necessary for a secure and stable region responsive to the needs of its people.
00:09:12Diplomacy is the best means to address the issues at hand, and your support will undergird
00:09:15our vigorous diplomatic engagements to advance U.S. interests and contest strategic competitors
00:09:21seeking to exploit post-October 7th instability.
00:09:24On May 31st, President Biden presented a comprehensive ceasefire and hostage deal accepted by Israel
00:09:30that can end the conflict in Gaza.
00:09:32This deal would bring all the hostages home, ensure Israel's security, lead to a complete
00:09:36ceasefire, facilitate a surge of humanitarian assistance into Gaza, begin the refurbishment
00:09:42of essential services, and set the stage for the long-term recovery of Gaza.
00:09:47I just returned from a trip to the region with Secretary Blinken, where we announced
00:09:51new humanitarian assistance response to the conflict and pressed key partners to do what
00:09:55they can to get Hamas to accept the deal.
00:09:58We are currently reviewing Hamas's response.
00:10:01We're pursuing an end to the conflict that must be built on conditions of enduring security
00:10:04for both Israelis and Palestinians.
00:10:07Our FY 2025 request includes crucial lifesaving aid for Palestinians in Gaza, as well as for
00:10:13millions of refugees and internally displaced persons in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Yemen.
00:10:18Our unrivaled network of partnerships, including those forged through the Abraham Accords,
00:10:23bolsters integrated defense and deterrence to counter malign actors.
00:10:27Israel, with the help of the U.S. and our allies, was able to defend itself from Iran's
00:10:31unprecedented missile and drone attack in April.
00:10:34To hold Iran accountable, we engaged with EU partners to secure expansion of sanctions
00:10:39authorities and worked jointly with the G7 and others to impose sanctions.
00:10:44Our regional partners play a critical role in ensuring regional stability and security.
00:10:48Egypt remains a vital partner for addressing the Israel-Hamas conflict and preventing regional spillover.
00:10:54It serves as a key staging ground and entry point for humanitarian aid and as a throughput
00:10:59for those evacuating Gaza.
00:11:01Qatar is indispensable to our efforts to secure the release of hostages.
00:11:05Jordan, too, has played a leading role in promoting peace and security in the region,
00:11:09and that cooperation remains critical to our regional security priorities.
00:11:13In 2022, we signed the seven-year MOU on assistance.
00:11:17Jordan is making good progress towards its benchmarks, and we will be with them every
00:11:21step of the way to implement them.
00:11:23We are concerned with the escalating hostilities along the Blue Line in Lebanon.
00:11:28Diplomacy is the only path for Lebanese and Israeli citizens on both sides of the Blue
00:11:32Line to return home, and it is the way that we can support the Lebanese armed forces in
00:11:37its role of providing security there.
00:11:40We were grateful for the role the LAF played in protecting our embassy perimeter in Beirut
00:11:44during violent protests last October and in responding most recently to a terrorist attack
00:11:48on our embassy.
00:11:50Our requests also calibrate support for the Tunisian people to address their needs in,
00:11:55as you said, Senator Murphy, an increasingly forbidding environment.
00:11:59Targeted U.S. investments in the Tunisian armed forces have promoted professionalism
00:12:02and accountability there and counter strategic competitors attempting to gain influence by
00:12:07exploiting Tunisia's security challenges.
00:12:11Your support for the department's plan to establish an interim diplomatic facility in
00:12:15Libya allows us to scale up our diplomacy amid an intensification of Russia's destabilizing
00:12:21influence.
00:12:22Libya's funding under the Global Fragility Act and our $19.25 million in bilateral assistance
00:12:30request supports our work to move Libya to an eventual transition to a democratic, stable,
00:12:35and unified state.
00:12:37We seek a durable resolution to the conflict in Yemen through an inclusive peace process
00:12:41under UN auspices.
00:12:43Houthi attacks in the Red Sea threaten the regional and global economy and undermine
00:12:48prospects for that peace.
00:12:50The $41.6 million Yemen request advances our priorities of lasting peace in Yemen and economic
00:12:57security for the Yemeni people.
00:13:00Our commitment to greater regional stability includes the enduring defeat of ISIS, which
00:13:05continues to pose a significant threat.
00:13:08With funds raised through the coalition and the continued support of Congress, we can
00:13:11improve security and reduce the populations in al-Hol and Roj Kems.
00:13:16Our $118.5 million request in ESF for Syria supports vulnerable populations who might
00:13:24be vulnerable to ISIS recruitment and works against ISIS's ability to reconstitute and
00:13:30threaten the U.S.
00:13:31Our goal is a stable and sovereign Iraq, integrated regionally and within the global economic
00:13:37system.
00:13:38Our work with Iraq to diversify and grow its economy helps the Sudanese Government deliver
00:13:43better opportunities for the Iraqi people.
00:13:46Thank you for the opportunity to testify on the President's FY 2025 budget request, and
00:13:52I want to close by thanking the subcommittee for your continued support for our efforts
00:13:55in the region.
00:13:56SECRETARY TILLERSON.
00:13:57Thank you very much.
00:13:58Ms. Pryor.
00:13:59MS.
00:14:00PRYOR.
00:14:01Chairman Murphy, Ranking Member Young, and distinguished members of the subcommittee,
00:14:05thank you for inviting me to testify today at this incredibly difficult time in our region.
00:14:11We all know that the Middle East and North Africa are at a critical inflection point.
00:14:15Hamas's abhorrent attack on Israel and the ongoing conflict in Gaza have taken center
00:14:21stage across the globe.
00:14:23The challenges of the moment offer an opportunity in which the relatively modest amounts in
00:14:28our fiscal year 2025 request might play an outsized role in shaping a peaceful and prosperous
00:14:35future for the region.
00:14:36While we remain focused on the immediate response, we must also examine the entire scope of the
00:14:42region's challenges in order to envision a path forward.
00:14:45Water and food insecurity, high numbers of displaced persons from conflicts and national
00:14:51disasters, corruption, and economic mismanagement already strain the region's resources prior
00:14:57to October 7th.
00:14:59The region's fragile economies have been further set behind by the ongoing violence.
00:15:04American gross domestic product in 2023 declined by $1 billion compared with 2022, all of that
00:15:10in the fourth quarter.
00:15:12And earlier this year, the International Monetary Fund lowered its growth forecast for the region
00:15:17to 2 percent, significantly below the 5.6 percent growth rate seen in 2022.
00:15:24Our fiscal year 2025 request proposes critical investments to address the region's needs.
00:15:30In response to the conflict, we have requested an increase of $10.3 million to mitigate post-conflict
00:15:35needs in Gaza and the West Bank, and $5 million for Lebanon.
00:15:40We've also requested an $11 million increase in funding to support Morocco's recovery from
00:15:45last year's earthquake, and an additional $22 million to reintegrate returnees from
00:15:50El Hol into their communities.
00:15:52We will use these increases and our other requested investments to build on our previous
00:15:57accomplishments.
00:15:58More recently, USAID supported the departure of 66 families from El Hol camp to Deir ez-Zor
00:16:04Government, where we are supporting them and their communities with legal assistance, transitional
00:16:09shelter, psychosocial support, and job opportunities.
00:16:13And a few weeks ago in Morocco, Administrator Samantha Power announced our partnership with
00:16:18the government of Morocco and an NGO to give direct cash grants to 180 cooperatives whose
00:16:24livelihoods were compromised by the earthquake.
00:16:27Our peacebuilding work deserves particular attention given the growing divisions in the
00:16:31region.
00:16:32Although tensions remain high, we continue to see signs of hope in the dedicated peacebuilders
00:16:37in the region.
00:16:38Our partners through the Nida M. Lowy Middle East Partnership for Peace Act remain committed
00:16:44to their work, and our Middle East Regional Cooperation Program has likewise seen positive
00:16:49signals for continued cross-border collaboration from its participants.
00:16:54Goals for collaboration between Palestinian and Israeli researchers remain among the top
00:16:59proposed Merck partnerships.
00:17:02Our FY25 request continues funding for these critical activities to continue the work of
00:17:08building enduring peaceful ties between Israel and its neighbors.
00:17:12Despite the numerous regional challenges, space remains to influence the trajectory
00:17:17of the region.
00:17:18The region's young population will play a critical role in shaping their future.
00:17:23We must invest in helping these young people develop a Middle East and North Africa region
00:17:28that is integrated into the global economy.
00:17:31With the funds requested, we will not only empower the people of the Middle East and
00:17:34North Africa to forge a more promising and prosperous future, but also ensure security
00:17:39for America and its allies.
00:17:41Thank you.
00:17:42Thank you very much both for your testimony.
00:17:45We will now undergo a round of five-minute questions.
00:17:48Ambassador Leaf, let me first talk to you about day-after planning in Gaza.
00:17:53The FY25 request largely maintains recent funding levels for the West Bank and Gaza
00:17:59despite the fact that we know we have a huge bill ahead of us, but we can't spend money
00:18:05effectively in Gaza if we don't have a governance structure that keeps Israel safe and understands
00:18:16political realities on the ground in Gaza.
00:18:20My understanding is that Prime Minister Netanyahu has essentially refused to start post-war
00:18:25planning in Gaza, not because he doesn't believe it is important to do so, but because he has
00:18:31pressure from his far-right coalition partners who want to reoccupy Gaza with Jewish settlements.
00:18:39So can you just talk for a moment about the status of planning for what the governance
00:18:47structure looks like once this conflict comes to a close, because we are keeping our fingers
00:18:51crossed that with or without an agreement, we are potentially weeks, maybe a month or
00:18:58two away from the formal military operations coming to a close, and it is just extraordinary
00:19:04that we have no viable plan from the Israeli government as to what comes next.
00:19:09Senator, this question of what comes next, what comes after this conflict, is one that
00:19:16we have discussed extensively with our Arab partners, with the Palestinians, with the
00:19:21Israeli government over the course of the last four or five months, and you're right,
00:19:27there is still insufficient planning, to say the least, on the part of the Israeli government.
00:19:33I would say, however, that that has not kept us from doing the work on our side and consulting
00:19:39extensively and also drawing up some concepts that, as Secretary Blinken said last week,
00:19:48we will be prepared to share with partners here shortly.
00:19:51I just got back on Thursday from the trip that the Secretary took to Cairo, Jerusalem,
00:19:58Tel Aviv, Oman, and Doha, and I will probably leave again this weekend to continue those
00:20:04discussions and to drill in deeper.
00:20:06But suffice to say, there are some essential points of agreement, notwithstanding, and
00:20:11that is that everyone is joined by the resolve to see Hamas removed from a governance role,
00:20:19and a governance role in particular at the point of a gun.
00:20:21Now, how we get there is going to be exceptionally difficult, and in no small part because of
00:20:26the conditions that prevail now in Gaza.
00:20:29But we are discussing this with our partners and looking at a variety of different concepts.
00:20:35I don't really want to go into those details in this public setting because, as you can
00:20:39imagine, it's all pretty sensitive.
00:20:42These get to the heart of politics for every one of these governments, and for the Palestinians
00:20:46and the Israelis as well.
00:20:49But I think reality has a way of pushing even those who can't imagine a concept such
00:20:57as the PA returning to Gaza.
00:21:01Reality has a way of intruding, and I think, as the Secretary frequently says, you can't
00:21:07beat something without something, as an alternative for Palestinians.
00:21:12Let me just – I understand the sensitivity about discussing particular plans.
00:21:18Let me just share a skepticism with you.
00:21:21There are lots of smart people in the foreign policy consensus in this town who believe
00:21:25that there is going to be an Arab force, an Arab-funded force.
00:21:32I worry that that greatly misunderstands the risk tolerance of our Arab friends.
00:21:37That certainly, in your head or on paper, makes all sorts of sense for the Saudis and
00:21:41the Emiratis, others to either populate or front a governance structure or a security
00:21:49force.
00:21:50They have never been willing to take a chance that big, and it probably overestimates how
00:21:56much they care about the future of the Palestinian people.
00:22:00I would just say we're intimately acquainted with their thinking on all of this, and so
00:22:06I would say there is no magical thinking on the part of this administration.
00:22:10We're well aware of how tough a piece this is, because we have to remind ourselves this
00:22:14has been a piece of territory run, ruled, governed, if you will, at the point of a gun
00:22:18for 17 years by a foreign terrorist organization.
00:22:22That is not easy to deconstruct, and we've obviously made the point publicly and privately
00:22:26that you can't do it all by military means alone.
00:22:28There will have to be a political alternative, and that's what we're in the process of
00:22:33putting together, these concepts.
00:22:35Mr. Prior, I'm at the end of questions, but just say a word about the consequences of
00:22:39another year of prohibition on U.S. funding for UNRWA.
00:22:45Most all countries, almost without exception, that had temporarily turned off funding for
00:22:49UNRWA as the investigation was ongoing have started that funding again, and I just don't
00:22:55understand how these fragile places like Jordan and Lebanon and Syria survive if UNRWA has
00:23:03only two months of funding at any given time without the United States playing a role and
00:23:09without, frankly, a lot of our Gulf allies stepping up and filling the vacuum.
00:23:15Thank you for that question.
00:23:16USAID does not fund UNRWA, however, we are looking, especially in places like Jordan
00:23:22or Lebanon, in which you do have refugee populations dependent upon UNRWA, on how we can better
00:23:28use our own assistance to help mitigate that impact.
00:23:33In both Jordan and Lebanon, we do a lot of work with host communities, which also has
00:23:39the added benefit of helping refugee populations as well.
00:23:42So we will take a look and see what is it that we can do from our side, given that we
00:23:47don't fund UNRWA, to help soften the blow of the loss of our funding.
00:23:52Right, but you are partners with all sorts of organizations that do work with UNRWA.
00:24:00You are in the same business.
00:24:01You must have a view as to the seriousness about UNRWA working on a budget right now
00:24:07that doesn't have enough cash flow to last more than 60 days.
00:24:10Yes, it is very concerning because this is not something we were able to budget for to
00:24:14be able to compensate for that.
00:24:15You can't fill in.
00:24:16USAID cannot fill in for the gap that has been created.
00:24:21It would be extremely difficult for us to do that with the resources that we have.
00:24:25Thank you.
00:24:26Senator Young.
00:24:27Assistant Secretary Leaf, you referenced this concept of the Palestinian Authority returning
00:24:32to Gaza.
00:24:33Some senior administration officials, including the President of the United States, has mentioned
00:24:38discussing a revitalized Palestinian Authority.
00:24:44Assistant Secretary, what specific parameters will meet the threshold for a revitalized
00:24:49Palestinian Authority?
00:24:52So the PA government, the new government that was established in April, has a reform
00:25:00agenda of its own and one that we are pressing them to implement.
00:25:05That goes to accountability, transparency, rooting out corruption, enabling services
00:25:12to the public, basically the kind of thing, the bread and butter things that any government
00:25:18owes its people and also owes its donors.
00:25:23The problems it's facing right now is a severe financial crisis.
00:25:28That is one that has been in part the product of October 7th and the closure of the West
00:25:35Bank in large part to traffic and the shrinking of the economy.
00:25:41It's also the withholding of clearance revenues by the Israeli government at this point.
00:25:47The reform it needs to undertake is to make it fit and proper for governance where it
00:25:53is now, let alone the ability to govern a larger portion of the public.
00:25:58So if you could briefly speak to what specific actions are needed to meet the criteria of
00:26:06a reformed PA.
00:26:09Political and financial reforms, would it be a total abolition, I would hope, of pay
00:26:14for slave programs?
00:26:17What else?
00:26:18Yes.
00:26:19That's exactly right.
00:26:20It's a mix of administrative reforms, administrative reforms that go to the issue of accountability
00:26:24of the money that it has and where it's going and how it's being spent.
00:26:27But you're right, prisoner payment, pay for slave, that is a key piece of a discussion
00:26:33that we have been having for some time and I think we're very near a conclusion to that.
00:26:40What steps, if any, do we know that regional partners may be willing to take in furtherance
00:26:46of this reformed PA?
00:26:49All of them want to see the same thing.
00:26:52All of them recognize the declining legitimacy and credibility of that governing structure
00:26:57in the West Bank.
00:26:59They all, every one of them, want to see the PA assume its responsibilities in Gaza, but
00:27:07they're very aware of the weaknesses of the organization.
00:27:12Moving to Hamas.
00:27:14Secretary Blinken confirmed last week that Hamas rejected the most recent ceasefire and
00:27:21hostage exchange proposal.
00:27:24So trying to get a sense of where that leaves us.
00:27:28What steps is the U.S. prepared to take to increase pressure on Hamas and, if necessary,
00:27:33its external enablers?
00:27:35So I think what you heard the Secretary say was something short of reject.
00:27:40It was a yes, but, with a lot of buts to it.
00:27:43The response that we saw on Tuesday night when we were out in the region.
00:27:47So some of those changes to the text were things that you could manage.
00:27:55Others were less apparently so, and we're in intensive discussions right now with the
00:28:00mediators and Israel about the way forward.
00:28:03We do believe, ultimately, this proposal is the best roadway to get an end to the conflict
00:28:10now that would enable a multitude of things and that would ultimately offer the prospect
00:28:16for an end to the conflict altogether, ensuring Israel's security, of course, and ensuring
00:28:21the security, frankly, of the people of Gaza who have labored under this terrible regime.
00:28:29Lastly, Assistant Secretary Leif, I'm going to ask you, when the U.S. withholds arms from
00:28:36Israel or seeks to enact arbitrary red lines on Israel, how does this not embolden Hamas
00:28:44and lead to them thinking they can outlast the war without releasing hostages?
00:28:50Senator, let me be really clear on this point.
00:28:53There's exactly one case that the President asked us to hit pause on.
00:28:58There is no larger pause or cessation of security assistance to Israel.
00:29:06And the President, the Secretary, have been absolutely clear.
00:29:08He's taking that off the table.
00:29:10Sorry?
00:29:10He's taking that off the table.
00:29:12There's one, there's one case.
00:29:14There's one case right now.
00:29:15And that went directly.
00:29:16And he's taking it off the table?
00:29:17I'm sorry?
00:29:18He's taking that prospect off the table?
00:29:20Of that case?
00:29:21No, I mean, it's under review, but it is only one case.
00:29:26Prospectively, then I'll ask you, if the U.S. were to withhold arms from Israel, how would
00:29:32that not embolden Hamas and lead them to them thinking, finish the question?
00:29:37Yep.
00:29:38So, Senator, I don't want to deal in a hypothetical, but what this President has been clear about
00:29:42is we absolutely have Israel's back.
00:29:46Thank you.
00:29:49Senator Kaine.
00:29:50Thank you to the Chair and Ranking Member, and thank you to our witnesses for being here.
00:29:54I'm going to continue on Israel-Gaza.
00:29:56Israel has a right to defend itself, and the U.S. needs to be a partner with Israel in
00:30:00defending itself against those who would annihilate it.
00:30:03Hamas, Iranian-backed militias, Hezbollah, Houthis, Iran itself.
00:30:11I celebrated on April 14 when the U.S. helped Israel, together with other nations, knock
00:30:16down drones and missiles fired from Iran into Israel.
00:30:20Palestinians have a right to live.
00:30:23Palestinians have a right to live, and not to be collectively treated as if they're part
00:30:26of a terrorist group when they're not.
00:30:29Most in Gaza are not Hamas.
00:30:32The vast majority in the West Bank are not Hamas.
00:30:36And while I support the U.S. effort to give Israel tools to defend itself against those
00:30:42who would annihilate it, I have been disappointed, and expressed it publicly, that the Israeli
00:30:48effort to support humanitarian aid to civilians, Israeli discussion about a future for Palestine,
00:30:55the slow pace of allowance of aid, the commission of violence against Palestinians on the West
00:31:02Bank, in some instances escorted by IDF reservists and Border Patrol officials, make this look
00:31:09to many that it is not just a defense against Hamas, but that it is a larger effort to target
00:31:16Palestinians.
00:31:18The administration, at Senator Van Hollen's request, and others of us joined in that request,
00:31:25in February announced a new policy, National Security Memorandum 20, that required recipients
00:31:30of U.S. military aid to meet two criteria.
00:31:33First, that the military aid would be used in accord with international law.
00:31:37And second, those receiving military aid, any nation receiving military aid, had to
00:31:41cooperate with U.S.-supported humanitarian efforts.
00:31:45The administration certified that Israel was meeting both of those pillars of NSM-20.
00:31:50The first pillar about whether military aid is being used in accord with international
00:31:54law is a murky one because of the way Hamas embeds in civilian populations, but I'll be
00:31:58blunt.
00:31:59I don't think the second pillar regarding humanitarian aid is that murky.
00:32:03And this is what I want to engage with you on.
00:32:06If Israel was engaged in sufficient effort to provide humanitarian aid, the U.S. wouldn't
00:32:11have to be building a jerry-rigged pier off the coast of Gaza, deploying Virginians from
00:32:16Fort Houston and elsewhere to do it.
00:32:19You would see a higher pace of humanitarian aid being delivered through border crossings
00:32:25in Israel into Gaza.
00:32:27You would not see Cindy McCain, the widow of a former Senate Foreign Relations Committee
00:32:33member, executive director of the World Food Program, saying that there's, quote, full-blown
00:32:38famine in northern Gaza.
00:32:40I don't think you'd see USAID Administrator Power publicly stating that it's credible
00:32:45to assess that there's famine in Gaza.
00:32:49The news since Sunday has been that the Israeli Defense Forces want to do a strategic pause
00:32:55in some military operations in Gaza every day to allow humanitarian aid to get to more
00:33:00Palestinians and they are being attacked by Prime Minister Netanyahu and members of the
00:33:05Cabinet for their effort to do some pauses in Gaza to allow humanitarian aid.
00:33:11So as the leader of our State Department and USAID in this remit, how can we conclude
00:33:20that there is sufficient humanitarian aid being allowed by Israel into Gaza on this
00:33:28set of facts?
00:33:30Senator, thank you for that set of comments and questions.
00:33:34I wouldn't say there is sufficient humanitarian aid going into Gaza by no stretch of the imagination,
00:33:40but it is not because Israel is trying to impede it.
00:33:43There are a whole set of complex factors at work, among which is the extremely poor security
00:33:50conditions, for instance, on the other side of Kerem Shalom.
00:33:53I was on a long discussion – a phone call this morning with our embassy in Jerusalem,
00:33:58as well as our Special Envoy Lise Grande, and she and we are working assiduously to
00:34:03help untangle some of the issues, and some of them are quite difficult to get at, because
00:34:08as the IDF has stepped back, various violent actors have stepped in, to the point that
00:34:14even the much-diminished Hamas enforcers cannot get control of independent families and gangs
00:34:24and so forth.
00:34:25So that is a huge piece of what is going on right now.
00:34:29The risk factors for humanitarian workers are at the very uppermost levels of intolerability
00:34:36for the UN and other NGOs, but we are working across the board on these issues with the
00:34:43Israeli government, with the IDF, with COGAT, and they are doing these pauses.
00:34:49There is obviously a lot of politics at play around many issues related to Gaza, but the
00:34:56fact is we are getting partnership and cooperation.
00:35:00It is just a fraught situation.
00:35:02I am over my time, and I don't want to belabor the point, but I don't want us to lose credibility.
00:35:08We can't control the activities of other nations, but we can control our own, and when we render
00:35:14a conclusion that Israel is sufficiently cooperating with the United States on the delivery of
00:35:19humanitarian aid, at the same time as we are having to spend hundreds of million dollars
00:35:23on a star-crossed effort to build an unworkable pier to get humanitarian aid into Gaza, and
00:35:29if we render a conclusion that Israeli actions are sufficient, when the Israeli government
00:35:34is engaged in a significant war of words against their own IDF trying to deliver humanitarian
00:35:40aid to Gaza, I worry it makes us look like we lose our own credibility by blessing an
00:35:48effort that is thus far entirely insufficient.
00:35:51I yield back.
00:35:52Senator Van Hollen.
00:35:54Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:35:55Thank both of you for your testimony and service.
00:35:58I want to begin with a question about an Egyptian man, Mahmoud Hussein, who was arbitrarily
00:36:04detained for wearing an anti-torture t-shirt in 2014.
00:36:09He was released after two years on arbitrary pretrial detention, but then re-arrested in
00:36:14April 2023.
00:36:18He's now free on bail.
00:36:20We're pursuing this case because he has family in Baltimore and also because he's been unjustly
00:36:25detained.
00:36:27My question, Madam Assistant Secretary, is a very simple one on this.
00:36:31Number one, are you familiar with the case?
00:36:33But number two, when do we expect the Egyptian parliament to finally pass the proposed legislation
00:36:42to change the arbitrary detention rules?
00:36:46I'm just looking for a straight, factual answer here.
00:36:49I'm generally familiar with his case, but not in the details that you've just cited.
00:36:53To the second question, I can't give you an answer, but I will be happy to come back with
00:36:57that answer.
00:36:58If you could.
00:36:59Yeah, we've been in touch with Egyptian authorities, and this is something they keep saying is
00:37:02going to happen, but it never seems to actually happen.
00:37:07I'm just going to read a post on the humanitarian situation in Gaza.
00:37:12I may come back to it, but I don't think anybody can question the credibility of UNICEF's global
00:37:19spokesman James Elder.
00:37:21This was a post he put up just a few days ago when things have allegedly improved.
00:37:28This was my Wednesday in Gaza.
00:37:30Thirteen-hour mission to go just 40 kilometers.
00:37:35Eight hours held at checkpoints.
00:37:39Despite approvals, our truck carrying UNICEF medicines and nutrition supplies for 10,000
00:37:45children got turned back.
00:37:48He adds to that note, and two fishermen seeking food for their families shot dead on the beach
00:37:54in front of us.
00:37:56So Madam Assistant Secretary, I don't think that the humanitarian situation in Gaza has
00:38:02gotten better.
00:38:03We saw more goods coming in from the Eretz Crossing, and it was improving slightly, but
00:38:08then of course the Rafah operation shut off anything coming across the Rafah Crossing.
00:38:13The Karam Shalom, you can cross from Karam Shalom into Gaza, but if you can't actually
00:38:18get to the people who need the help, obviously that doesn't achieve the goal.
00:38:23I want to associate myself with the comments of my friend Senator Kaine, both in terms
00:38:29of Israel's clear right, in fact I would argue duty, to defend itself, but also the important
00:38:35of the conduct of the war.
00:38:36The President's talked about this.
00:38:38But I want to turn to the West Bank for a moment, because the West Bank is growing more
00:38:45unstable by the day.
00:38:48You've had over 122 children die, killed, in the West Bank since October 7th alone.
00:38:59And there are lots of people who are responsible for overseeing the West Bank, but one of them,
00:39:05as you know, is Finance Minister Smotrych, who also has an important portfolio within
00:39:11the Ministry of Defense over civil affairs in the West Bank.
00:39:17And there are numerous reports indicating that he's used his position to assist extremist
00:39:22settlers, including many who have been sanctioned under the administration's EEO, and I commend
00:39:29the administration for its EEO.
00:39:31In addition, as reported in a New York Times magazine piece with longtime investigative
00:39:41reporters, IDF officials have said that Smotrych has undermined efforts to limit construction
00:39:48of settlements illegal under Israeli law, quote, to the point where it has disappeared,
00:39:54unquote.
00:39:55He then boasted about this, he, Smotrych, saying, we will do everything to prevent a
00:40:00Palestinian state that will endanger our existence here.
00:40:02I'm proud to fight and prevent the Arab takeover of territories and help legitimize the Jewish
00:40:08heroes who settle the West Bank, unquote.
00:40:11And I don't know if you were with Secretary Blinken back in March, but at that time, Smotrych
00:40:17announced the largest single seizure of Palestinian lands in one day.
00:40:21He also has been talked about, has been withholding funds.
00:40:25You, the Secretary, the President, have talked about this.
00:40:29You would agree that these are all destabilizing to the West Bank, would you not?
00:40:33Yes.
00:40:34And so my question is this, the EEO is very clear.
00:40:39What the EEO says is that any individuals or entities who have engaged in actions, including
00:40:47directing, enacting, implementing, enforcing, or failing to enforce policies that threaten
00:40:52the peace, security, or stability of the West Bank, are subject to this set of sanctions
00:40:59under the EEO.
00:41:00Why has the administration not sanctioned Smotrych, given the clear violations of the
00:41:07terms of the President's executive order?
00:41:10Senator, if I can quickly turn back to the H.A., the humanitarian situation in Gaza,
00:41:16I want to be clear about one point.
00:41:18I'm not suggesting that it is improved.
00:41:20We were beginning to see an improvement, a gentle trend upwards in April.
00:41:24That was reversed with the Rafah operation, and so we are working against that.
00:41:30On the West Bank, you're absolutely right that there are a whole constellation of factors
00:41:34and actors that are taking things to a very precarious position.
00:41:40And I would agree with you on all of those points, that those are relevant to that picture.
00:41:44You can appreciate that we don't discuss publicly who we put on our list for consideration.
00:41:55It is an ongoing process.
00:41:57I thank you, and just in closing, Mr. Chairman, again, I would really urge the administration
00:42:02to take this action and take it immediately, because the situation is getting worse, not
00:42:06better, and Smotrych continues to threaten more illegal outposts and withholding or some
00:42:14combination of those.
00:42:15So if we want to send a signal that we're serious, it cannot just be sanctioning some
00:42:21extremist settlers and some settler farms.
00:42:25It has to get to the root of the issue, and this is one of those roots.
00:42:29Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:42:30Thank you, Senator Van Hollen.
00:42:31Senator Hagerty.
00:42:34Thank you.
00:42:35Deputy Assistant Administrator Pryor, I'm going to start with you.
00:42:41When Secretary Blinken appeared before the Appropriations Committee in October of last
00:42:45year, I asked him a very simple question, and that was whether he could guarantee that
00:42:48no U.S. taxpayer funding had been – this included an aid to Gaza – had been used
00:42:54to fund or support the Hamas attacks on October the 7th of 2023.
00:42:59I asked him repeatedly, and repeatedly he declined to make that guarantee.
00:43:04That week I also sent a letter both to Secretary Blinken and to USAID Administrator Power asking
00:43:10how much in U.S. taxpayer-funded foreign assistance has been sent specifically to Gaza,
00:43:16and to list each recipient in Gaza, whether at the awardee level or the subawardee level.
00:43:22I have that letter right here.
00:43:25That was months ago.
00:43:28Eight months later, USAID has failed to give me a complete answer.
00:43:32In particular, the agency has refused to disclose recipients at the subawardee level.
00:43:39The responses that I've received from AID have made it clear that the agency has the
00:43:42information about subawardees, that it's not classified, but the agency is not providing it.
00:43:49So Ms. Pryor, why, eight months later, after I sent a letter with a very simple request,
00:43:54has the administration refused to provide the U.S. Senate with basic transparency about
00:43:59who's receiving U.S. taxpayer dollars, especially at the subawardee level, so we can see where
00:44:04it's being spent?
00:44:07Thank you for your question, sir.
00:44:10So the safety of our implementing partner staff is our utmost paramount concern, and
00:44:17this is such a high-risk environment where Hamas can target our implementing partner staff.
00:44:23I'm not familiar with this.
00:44:24I believe this is on the humanitarian assistance side, so I'm happy to go back to my colleagues
00:44:30on humanitarian assistance and see what is the status of this response and how we get
00:44:35you the information you are seeking.
00:44:37I certainly want the information, deserve the information.
00:44:39It's been eight months.
00:44:40I think I know why you're hesitating.
00:44:41I raised this with Administrator Power.
00:44:44I shared with her one of the subawardees that's doing just what we're concerned about.
00:44:48I think that's the reason you're not sharing this information, because this sort of activity,
00:44:52Hamas-supporting activity, is occurring among subawardees.
00:44:56You all are going to be back in front of us on the Appropriations Committee, where I sit,
00:44:59next month.
00:45:00I expect to have this information before then.
00:45:03Noted, sir.
00:45:04Thank you.
00:45:05Thank you.
00:45:06Assistant Secretary Leif, I'd like to turn to you now.
00:45:12The Biden Administration has declined to unilaterally recognize a Palestinian state and has stated
00:45:17that a Palestinian state should be established through, quote, direct negotiations between
00:45:23the parties involved in the conflict.
00:45:25Will this remain the Administration's position through January 20th of 2025?
00:45:31Yes, Senator, absolutely.
00:45:33That's long-standing policy and it's been the president's own approach to this issue
00:45:40set throughout his career.
00:45:42I'm pleased to hear you say that unequivocally because here's the reason for my concern.
00:45:46Back in December of 2016, in the lame duck Obama administration, we saw the Obama administration
00:45:53betray Israel and allow the infamously anti-Israel UN Security Council Resolution number 2334
00:46:00to go into effect.
00:46:02And as I fast forward to today, the Biden administration has been pushing Israel to
00:46:06agree to a normalization agreement with Saudi Arabia.
00:46:09And that agreement would require Israel to agree to quote, a credible pathway to a Palestinian
00:46:14state.
00:46:15And my concern would be that if Israel were to agree to this quote, credible pathway,
00:46:21that the Biden administration might turn around and do just as the Obama administration did
00:46:25back in 2016 and unilaterally recognize a Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its
00:46:30capital while falsely claiming that this is what Israel had already agreed to.
00:46:34So I just want to be clear again.
00:46:35Is there any scenario between now and January 20th where the Biden administration would
00:46:39recognize a Palestinian state in the absence of Israel's official recognition of a Palestinian
00:46:46state?
00:46:47That would be the subject of direct negotiations, sir.
00:46:50Direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.
00:46:54And only then.
00:46:55There would be no recognition.
00:46:56That's right.
00:46:57I just want to make sure.
00:46:58Yes.
00:46:59Thanks very much.
00:47:01Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:47:04Thank you very much.
00:47:05And Senator Haggard, I'd be glad to work with you on that request you made for information.
00:47:11There may be some reasons why it should be done in a classified setting, but be happy
00:47:15to be happy to work with you on that.
00:47:19Be happy to work with you on that.
00:47:21We'll open it to a second round of questions here at the very least from myself and the
00:47:27ranking member.
00:47:29Ambassador Leaf, Qatar has come under a lot of scrutiny for good reason since October
00:47:377th.
00:47:41But I misunderstand a lot of the animosity.
00:47:44Yes, they host Hamas, but my understanding is that that has been at our request.
00:47:51Yes, they have relations with the Taliban, but that has accrued to the benefit of the
00:47:57United States, utilized by Democratic and Republican administrations.
00:48:02They have previously been the conduit that flows funds into Gaza, done at the request
00:48:08of the Israeli government.
00:48:11So just speak for a moment about how the status of the U.S.-Qatar relationship right now and
00:48:21what the world would look like if we didn't have Qatar's ability to allow us to speak
00:48:28to our adversaries in the region.
00:48:34Thank you, Senator, for that really important question.
00:48:36And having gone to Israel, I think, nine times since October 7th, and actually my first two
00:48:44years in office, I did a lot of work with the Israelis on especially the Israeli security
00:48:50establishment.
00:48:52And I would say that there has been, even before October 7th, there were very mixed
00:48:56feelings about the logic of using Qatar as a conduit for funds.
00:49:03But after October 7th, of course, there has been the just really terribly traumatic, the
00:49:11trauma that endures as long as hostages are kept by Hamas and other actors in Gaza.
00:49:18So there has been frustration from the same folks who understand that Qatar is a really
00:49:24critical channel, just as you say, alongside Egypt.
00:49:29But it has just gifts that it brings and influence it brings to bear on this.
00:49:34I would just say the following.
00:49:36Qatar really, to use that somewhat tired expression, really does punch above its weight.
00:49:41And it has a nimbleness of approach with a variety of actors that we don't have relations
00:49:47with, but that we need to communicate with, and regimes as well as non-state actors.
00:49:54And they have worked tirelessly on this hostage piece.
00:50:01There has been very understandable frustration from the families, from the Israeli government.
00:50:07Can't Qatar do more?
00:50:08Can't you, the U.S., put more pressure on Qatar to put more pressure on Hamas?
00:50:13And I would just say, as I did a few weeks ago before HVAC, there is the cadre of political
00:50:21officials of Hamas in Doha, and boy, do they squeeze them.
00:50:24I can assure you they squeeze them.
00:50:26But at the end of the day, there's one guy, 10 stories below the ground, a psychopath,
00:50:32messianic in his own belief that he has established himself in history.
00:50:36And there's sort of a sunk cost to having lost thousands of fighters and caused carnage
00:50:42in Gaza.
00:50:43So Qatar's ability to do the indirect mediation is critical to our interests and to Israel's.
00:50:53But I would say they have become a very trusted partner of ours.
00:50:59There are other allies of the United States that have relations with Hamas.
00:51:04Qatar's the only one that seems to be willing to do the hardest work of convening these
00:51:11conversations.
00:51:12Yes.
00:51:13An imperfect, listen, an imperfect ally.
00:51:15Yes.
00:51:16And a human rights record that needs to get better.
00:51:20But appreciate your comments.
00:51:21Let me ask you one bigger picture question.
00:51:25We have the outlines of a very important potential agreement in Lebanon to be able to move Hezbollah
00:51:36back off the border and maybe even get in a conversation about border demarcation.
00:51:43We have a political standstill in Yemen with the added complication of Houthi provocations
00:51:51into the Red Sea.
00:51:53Both seem static until the Gaza conflict comes to a close.
00:52:01I just think it's important for this committee to understand that the end of the conflict
00:52:07in Gaza is important to be able to ultimately bring about a long-term security settlement
00:52:15with respect to Hamas's ability to hit Israel ever again.
00:52:18But it is also right now standing in the way of moving forward on a Yemen political process,
00:52:26on a de-escalation with the Houthis, and a potential breakthrough, potential breakthrough
00:52:31in Lebanon.
00:52:32Am I right about that?
00:52:33You are absolutely right about all of that.
00:52:36And the diplomacy continues even while we are working to get to that ceasefire agreement.
00:52:44So Amos Hochstein is out in the region.
00:52:47He's been out there for several days, essentially working to calm things down.
00:52:52Things are quite volatile, alarmingly so.
00:52:56And we heard that in stereophonic sound last week on our trip through the region.
00:53:01So he is doing his work even ahead of a formal pause.
00:53:05Tim Lenderking is doing his work relentlessly, both in terms of the work with our partners
00:53:11on Red Sea security, but importantly on the piece to get regional partners to really lean
00:53:18in hard on the Houthi.
00:53:20So all of this continues apace, but you're right, the Gaza ceasefire will be the break
00:53:25point where we can do something really important in both directions.
00:53:30Let me sneak in one last question on Egypt.
00:53:33The State Department waived certification requirements tied to human rights improvements
00:53:39on the $235 million of Egypt's FY 2022 FMF.
00:53:45But upon becoming chair of the full committee, Senator Cardin put a hold on that funding.
00:53:52My impression is that since the chairman's hold has been in place, the Egyptian government
00:53:58has really failed to engage in any meaningful cooperation with the United States on any
00:54:04of our core interests and that we have further not seen any real progress with respect to
00:54:14the pretrial detention reforms or the release of significant numbers of political prisoners.
00:54:24So just like the amount of funding to Egypt has been stuck in place since the mid-eighties,
00:54:32progress with Egypt has been stuck at least for the past six months.
00:54:37The one thing I would say that is really, really important in this picture is the final
00:54:42resolution wrapping up entirely of case 173 and the dismissal of charges, the release
00:54:50of freezes and detentions and so forth.
00:54:52So this is a really significant step forward for all of the people and the organizations
00:54:57that were caught up in that years-long case.
00:54:59I asked just a couple of days ago for a status report on the pretrial detention legislation
00:55:08and I plan to go back to our post and see where we stand with that.
00:55:15The discussions that we had, as I recall dimly, crested in September and of course
00:55:22we had the events of October 7th, which have really, I would unfortunately have thoroughly
00:55:28preoccupied our government, Egypt's government.
00:55:33They've been preoccupied both with the conflict right across their border with Sudan, but
00:55:39I assure you we have not lost sight of that and I will come back to you with some more
00:55:44comments on that.
00:55:45All right.
00:55:46Great.
00:55:47Thank you.
00:55:48Senator Young.
00:55:49Secretary, two questions, two lines of questioning.
00:55:52One I'm going to touch on drones and then subsea cables, so you know where I'm headed
00:55:56with this.
00:55:59So Iran's drone production, a lot has been said and written about that, but recent reports
00:56:08are based on an analysis of some downed Iranian drones, found multiple components originating
00:56:16from U.S. manufacturers, microchips, circuit boards, GPS modules, some other components.
00:56:25I understand it's nearly impossible to completely cut off Iran from attaining these parts, but
00:56:33what, if anything, are we doing to try and interrupt some of these flows?
00:56:40That's a really critical issue because of course the drones are a threat throughout
00:56:44the region and now they are fully in the battlefield in Ukraine.
00:56:48So we have designated dozens of entities involved in the UAV program and we have imposed comprehensive
00:56:55export controls to try to restrict Iran's access to key technologies insofar as possible.
00:57:01And we are enlisting the help of our European and other partners in this effort.
00:57:08It's, as you say, exceptionally difficult to get at everything because some of these
00:57:12things are just off-the-shelf kind of components which can be used for multiplicity of things.
00:57:18Do you have sufficient personnel?
00:57:24I know this has been an issue over at Commerce with respect to the monitoring of our export
00:57:29controls on microprocessors and we're looking at so many different fronts right now and
00:57:37so many different technologies of a dual-use nature.
00:57:42That might be something to look into if you don't have that information at the ready.
00:57:46I'd be happy to look into that.
00:57:48There are a number of members of this committee that would like to be helpful.
00:57:50Thank you.
00:57:52So with respect to subsea cables, what diplomatic efforts are underway to get some of the subsea
00:57:59cables, like those in the Red Sea that have been directly or indirectly damaged by Houthis,
00:58:11underway to get these cables repaired?
00:58:15I don't have an answer for you on that, but I will be happy to take that back.
00:58:22Well, I believe that we need to be monitoring this situation very closely.
00:58:30Ninety-five percent of the world's internet traffic occurs through subsea cables.
00:58:37These are strategic assets, obviously, critical to our commerce and every bit as important
00:58:47as the above-water goods and services that traffic every day and we take great care to secure.
00:58:56So yes, kindly report back to me on any activities underway to restore service there.
00:59:03And then as the leader of a regional bureau at the department, what, if any, additional
00:59:08authorities or resources would you or your counterparts in other bureaus need to prioritize
00:59:15security of undersea cables within your areas of responsibility?
00:59:20There again, if you need to report back, I'd certainly welcome that.
00:59:25Do you have any initial thoughts that you'd like to?
00:59:28I don't, I don't, sir, but I will be happy to take that one back as well.
00:59:32So additional authorities, yeah.
00:59:34Okay.
00:59:35Chairman.
00:59:36Thank you, Senator Young.
00:59:39Senator Cruz.
00:59:42Thank you, Mr. Chair.
00:59:45Senator Lief, you are the administration's point person on the Middle East.
00:59:52How's that working out?
00:59:56I love my job, Senator.
00:59:58Have things in the Middle East gotten better or worse since Joe Biden became president?
01:00:02We have had a series of black swan events.
01:00:05So no doubt the region is in a very difficult state.
01:00:11Is your answer things have gotten worse?
01:00:14My answer is that a series of black swan events have crowded upon me.
01:00:17Have they gotten better?
01:00:18You're not suggesting things have gotten better, are you?
01:00:20No, I have not.
01:00:21In fact, they've gotten a lot worse.
01:00:22That's the nature of black swan.
01:00:24So it's black swans.
01:00:25You guys had nothing to do with it.
01:00:26It's not mistakes you made.
01:00:27It's just something that happened externally.
01:00:30Well, I think an assessment of the events of October 7th is still to be done.
01:00:34I can't speak to that.
01:00:36Okay.
01:00:37So did y'all make any mistakes that led to it?
01:00:41I'm not sure.
01:00:42All right.
01:00:43Here's one.
01:00:44How about giving hundreds of millions of dollars to the Gaza Strip, much of which ended up
01:00:47in the hands of Hamas?
01:00:48Was that a mistake now that we saw what happened on October 7th?
01:00:52I'm going to defer to my colleague from USAID.
01:00:55I'm not aware of hundreds of millions of dollars going to Hamas from U.S. coffers.
01:00:58All right.
01:00:59How about $100 billion to Iran?
01:01:00Was that a mistake?
01:01:02I'm not sure what you're referring to, Senator.
01:01:04You tell me.
01:01:05How much money has this administration flowed to Iran?
01:01:09We have not flowed money to Iran.
01:01:10Really?
01:01:12And accounts that are restricted for humanitarian use only.
01:01:15And money's not fungible?
01:01:18This regime will always spend money on these kinds of activities, the proxy activities.
01:01:24When Joe Biden became president, how much was Iran selling in oil a day?
01:01:29I don't have that figure for you, Senator.
01:01:30Of course you don't.
01:01:31The answer's about 300,000 barrels a day.
01:01:33How much is Iran selling in oil a day now?
01:01:37Somewhere short of two million.
01:01:39So it went from 300,000 barrels a day to two million barrels a day.
01:01:43That's about $80 billion that the Ayatollah has made because your administration refuses
01:01:47to enforce oil sanctions.
01:01:49No, we do enforce oil sanctions.
01:01:50Well, you do so terribly because the number has increased almost tenfold.
01:01:55But because of the strictures that we put on, the sanctions that we put on, the targeting
01:01:59that we've done, 230 alone directed towards those who traffic in Iranian oil, that has
01:02:06imposed a heavy cost on Iran.
01:02:08And we estimate that it is not-
01:02:10Wait, wait, wait.
01:02:11You're saying it's a heavy cost.
01:02:13They went from 300,000 barrels a day to two million barrels a day.
01:02:17Where's the heavy cost?
01:02:18That's an extra 1.7 million barrels a day.
01:02:20That's $80 billion.
01:02:22True or false, 90% of Hamas's funding comes from Iran?
01:02:26No, not 90%.
01:02:28It is a large substantial amount.
01:02:29Okay, how much is it then?
01:02:31I don't know at this exact-
01:02:32Of course, you're in charge of the damn region and what do you mean you don't know?
01:02:35At this exact moment, I can't tell you because of the structures-
01:02:37But how much of Hezbollah's funding comes from Iran?
01:02:39Huge.
01:02:40Huge amount.
01:02:41It's about 90%.
01:02:42Both of those are about 90%.
01:02:44Do you think it made the world safer or less safe to take a theocratic lunatic like the
01:02:51Ayatollah who chants death to America and death to Israel and to flow $100 billion?
01:02:56Did that make us more safe or less safe?
01:02:57The U.S. is not flowing money to Iran, Senator.
01:03:01What about the $6 billion in hostage payments?
01:03:04Not a penny has moved.
01:03:06And money's not fungible?
01:03:07They can't put that up for credit facilities?
01:03:09Not a penny has moved.
01:03:10You're where?
01:03:11You're under oath.
01:03:12I am.
01:03:13And could they put that money up for credit facilities to use money to fund their terror
01:03:17activities?
01:03:18I'm not sure who would be in the position of lending them money at this point, Senator.
01:03:22We do have plenty of sanctions.
01:03:25Iran is one of the most heavily sanctioned regimes-
01:03:26But you're not enforcing them.
01:03:27This administration, every lunatic on earth that wants to kill us, this administration
01:03:33gives money to.
01:03:34All right, let me ask you this.
01:03:37Israel has said it is their policy to utterly eliminate Hamas.
01:03:42Does this administration, does President Biden support Israel in its commitment to utterly
01:03:46eliminate Hamas?
01:03:47Of course.
01:03:48Of course?
01:03:49Then why are you calling for an immediate ceasefire before they eliminate Hamas?
01:03:53Israel has accepted that proposal.
01:03:55No, they have not.
01:03:56They have.
01:03:57Is there a ceasefire that's happened?
01:03:58Hamas has not yet fully accepted that.
01:04:00Is there a ceasefire?
01:04:01Israel most certainly has not.
01:04:02I'm aware the Biden administration has told the press that Israel has.
01:04:07The Israeli leadership-
01:04:08So, I asked you a question.
01:04:11Do you support Israel's military objective of utterly eliminating Hamas?
01:04:15You said yes, and the next sentence you said, but they should cease fire right now and not
01:04:20eliminate Hamas.
01:04:21No, I agree with the way that the President characterized it, Senator, on May 31st, which
01:04:25is to say that we agree with the objective that Hamas never again control the Gaza Strip
01:04:31or threaten Israel.
01:04:33That will not be achieved by military means alone.
01:04:36We said their military objective was to defeat Hamas, so you just said it's impossible to
01:04:40defeat Hamas.
01:04:41Is that right?
01:04:42When you first posed the question, you said eliminate Hamas.
01:04:44I said utterly eliminate Hamas.
01:04:46I didn't say over time, not over 1,000 years.
01:04:48I said defeat an enemy because they are murderers who murdered 1,200 people who raped women
01:04:53and little girls.
01:04:55It won't be done by military means alone.
01:04:58So it is the position of this administration is impossible by military means to defeat
01:05:02Hamas.
01:05:03Yes, it is.
01:05:04Let me ask you, you also want to see, essentially as a reward for October 7th, a Palestinian
01:05:08state.
01:05:09It's not a reward.
01:05:10It's not a reward.
01:05:11It just achieves what they want as a benefit for these murderers.
01:05:15Let me ask you something.
01:05:17If Hamas is governed by Hamas, if Hamas governs Gaza, how is Israel's safety protected?
01:05:25It's an impressive job, Mr. Chairman.
01:05:28Bang, bang.
01:05:29Let the witness finish answering the question.
01:05:31You should not be frightened of these questions, Mr. Chairman.
01:05:33The gentleman's time has expired.
01:05:34Hamas has never supported a two-state solution.
01:05:37So indeed, a Palestinian state that is negotiated with Israel, that lives in peace side by side
01:05:43with Israel, is not a reward to Hamas.
01:05:46Hamas doesn't support such a thing, does not recognize Israel's right to exist.
01:05:50Your policy has been an utter disaster.
01:05:53Thank you very much to both of our witnesses for being here today.
01:05:56What we're going to do is keep the record open until 5 p.m. on Thursday, and we'll appreciate
01:06:02any answers to questions that come in before then.
01:06:04With that, this subcommittee is adjourned.