Bill Pullman chats with THR's Stacey Wilson Hunt about taking on the lead role in Lifetime's two-part limited series 'Murdaugh Murders: The Movie' during a THR Frontrunners Lifetime Showcase held at San Vicente Bungalows in Los Angeles.
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00:00I was just texting with my mom telling her that I was about to speak to Bill, and I think
00:09she speaks for all of us when she said, I love him, but I don't like knowing that he
00:13played a murderer.
00:15It's an uncomfortable experience knowing that the nicest person in Hollywood, next to Tom
00:19Hanks, played such a complex, scary character, but we'll get to that in a moment.
00:25I do want to know what attracted you to this role, because this is not easy material, and
00:31emotionally probably very taxing.
00:33Yeah, this was a quick decision that had to be made because it was on a timeline with
00:42reality.
00:43I guess that's what happens when you're ripped from the head.
00:48You sort of, the real case is happening in real time.
00:51Yeah.
00:52So the verdicts were delivered in March, and then they knew they had to get the movie in
01:00production before the drop-dead date with the strike, you know, with the negotiations.
01:07You had a lot of time on this.
01:08Yeah, which was July 1st, right?
01:13So we had to get started at the end of May.
01:17I think, I guess I think it's eight days, but the first two days I was saying no.
01:24Why did you say no?
01:25I was having kind of like a physical reaction to, I thought it was a sign that it was so
01:32repulsive that I was, I couldn't do it, but it really ended up being that was the last
01:39shred of my own morality, you know, and embarrassment and shame and all of that.
01:45Embarrassment about what?
01:47What's that?
01:48You were embarrassed about what?
01:49Sympathetic, simultaneous, similar type of thing like I was being caught, but I was still
01:57in my kind of moral codes and everything, but more, and then by the time, once you start
02:04working on a part like that, then you kind of walk through a membrane, you know, you
02:08move, it's like a permeable membrane, and you can move through that, and then you're
02:13free of that kind of reaction, you know, and, you know, you start investigating what
02:22it is to be on drugs.
02:24Always a good job.
02:25Because this is, and that's a great point, this is a story as much of a tragedy and murder
02:29as it is about addiction, so tell me what you learned about that and the state of mind
02:33that this person was in.
02:35Well, I think, you know, chasing a high, everybody knows that, but this is, you know, it's amazing
02:46to me that I didn't know a lot about oxycodone and the fact that you could build up an addiction
02:53that would cost you $50,000 a month, and that, you know, that would be a lot of drugs, and
03:02because you start out using, it doesn't take very much to get you going, and then at a
03:08certain point, it just builds up more and more and more, and so, but, you know, when
03:14you're on that high, you kind of, like, you're in turbulence or something, and then you get,
03:19you're satisfied, and then you lift through the clouds, and, you know, there is some things
03:27about that that were interesting to feel, you know, there's a kind of freedom you get
03:33with that, because I didn't want people to go, oh, that was part of why I didn't want
03:38to do it, because I didn't know about him, and I started asking people that I knew in
03:43my life.
03:44So you weren't aware very much of the case before this?
03:47Nobody would have told me about it.
03:50Well, you clearly and wisely don't watch news, because that is where most of us became familiar
03:56with this person, and it's just terrible.
03:58Everything about it is just terrible.
03:59See, and then everybody said, oh, Pete, I hate that guy, I hate him, and I thought,
04:05this is a non-starter, this movie, I walk in, they go, I hate you, and then they, you
04:11know, three and a half hours later, they haven't changed their minds, so I was talking to Greg
04:19Beeman, who is the director, who, you know, you also have to kind of make a marriage pretty
04:24quick when you're on that kind of deadline, so you have to, you know, and I just wanted
04:29to hear what he had to say about what he thought about things, and he said, you know, I said,
04:36what do you think about his feelings about his wife and child?
04:40He said, oh, I think he loved them, loved them very much, and I think that fact that
04:46you love someone and then you also kill them is a big paradox.
04:52This isn't essentially like a Ted Bundy story where someone's wantonly committing numerous
04:57crimes and having no regard for human life.
04:59This is someone who completely lost sense of who he is, went probably insane, and did
05:04the most horrible thing a person can do.
05:07So there's that incredible journey in that that you can explore as an actor that probably
05:11felt like scary but also rewarding.
05:14Well, now I think there's a little, maybe it's wrong to say it, but there is some kind
05:22of weird, the producer of this movie is a guy who, Tim, who makes a ton of movies in
05:30Canada all the time, bing, pow, pow, pow.
05:32This was filmed in B.C., right?
05:34Yeah, and he said, you know, I never thought that I'd actually, I wouldn't say I felt sorry
05:41for the guy, but I empathized with him.
05:45And I think that was my thought, was it's not like you have to really approve of what
05:52he's doing, but if you feel that some little bit of his, you know, the chase and his circumstances,
06:03before you really shut down on him, you know, you suspend that as long as you can so that
06:10the character has some, you know, he's still in play with him and not just in judgment
06:15of him.
06:16And did you research, like, the 911 call and the police documents, did you have access
06:20to those materials?
06:22Finally, I got to see what everybody else saw, you know.
06:27You had a crash course in this terrible event.
06:30I'm a junkie for verbatim dialogue, you know, it's just I see what, when it's actually printed,
06:37the way people talk, it's, it's incredible, you know, the crazy syntax, you know, through
06:45and, you know, starts with talking about that dog, he, they always, they come around, you
06:53know, where they're changing.
06:54Well, he's Southern, but he's also really intelligent.
06:57He's an attorney.
06:58So he has like kind of jargon and sort of local folksiness, but he's also very smart.
07:03Yeah.
07:04Interesting.
07:05Yeah.
07:07Like a heat-seeking missile, he can start a sentence and he knows what's going to, where
07:12he has to go to kind of get the most rewards.
07:16Kind of like the red-haired, orange-haired guy, you know, you look at that syntax.
07:22I'm sorry, what orange-haired person are you speaking of?
07:25There's an orange-haired guy.
07:26Ronald McDonald?
07:27In our culture.
07:28Yeah.
07:29But, you know, there was a period where they fixed his grammar and that, you know, I think
07:33up until 2016, they were, they were fixing that and then they said, no, we're not doing
07:38that anymore.
07:39And then you go, whoa.
07:41And you can feel.
07:42Well, I saw a lot of parallels with that individual in this story.
07:45Yeah.
07:46Yeah.
07:47There's a certain uncanny, and you could call it like a feral intelligence about, you know,
07:54if you're starting some sentence and that's starting to get boring to you, go to a whole
07:58new sentence.
07:59In the middle of it.
08:00In the middle of it.
08:01It's an interesting campaign vibe, it really is.
08:05But Vickerman, Michael Vickerman wrote the script and, you know, he, there, there is
08:10the verbatim text from the 911 call and the, you know, the dash cam and the first deposition
08:16that happens in the car with the sled officers.
08:19And there's endless courtroom because South Carolina, you know, allows the TV in the courtroom.
08:26And so there's a lot of data, but, you know, when you, when you hear what he actually was
08:35saying in that 911 call, it's, it's kind of like, some of it's like, ah, there's too much
08:43information.
08:44Yeah.
08:45He doth protesteth too much.
08:46I think I said that.
08:47Yeah.
08:48He doth protesteth.
08:49You know, a little bit too, you know, my son, I think, you know, I'll tell you, I think
08:55somebody's mad about that, you know, and just like.
08:59Tell me about, you have a great, I'm married to a Southerner who's very sensitive about
09:02terrible Southern accent when he hears them.
09:05Yours is very good.
09:06So tell me about how you prepared.
09:08Did you listen to, not like this person you're playing, but did you listen to that local
09:12dialect?
09:13It's a very specific Southern accent.
09:14It's not Texas.
09:15It's not Florida.
09:16It's very specific to that region.
09:17Yeah.
09:18South Carolina, North Carolina.
09:19I love the South.
09:22I love the sound of those voices.
09:24I used to listen to old Smithsonian folkways records of, you know, Appalachian people talking,
09:31telling jet tales and stuff like that, because I just love that deep, you know, and Piedmont's
09:37one thing.
09:38There's lots of different shades.
09:39Also where, you know, because Murdock here, he pitches it pretty high.
09:44So back up in here, you know, it's not down low, it's not in that low bar.
09:49So, you know, and there's this range that happens where he's fast talking, you know,
09:54so you got to kind of find the cadence.
09:57It's a lot of theatrics.
09:58Yeah.
09:59Yeah.
10:00Yeah.
10:01Yeah.
10:02So I'm going to come back to Alex in a minute in this incredible performance, but I do want
10:04to go back a little bit to 1987, Spaceballs, an amazing major film debut on your part.
10:14You've done some smaller parts, but I would say this is your breakup movie.
10:19What do you remember about working with Mel Brooks and how did that movie change your
10:22life?
10:24Yeah, that was, you know, I thought they were all going to be like that.
10:29And I just landed in heaven, you know, because it was so much a movie movie.
10:35You know, it was MGM, the last MGM movie shot on the MGM lot when it was owned by MGM.
10:42And, you know, you go into the lot and the head of makeup was a guy who had a blazer
10:50and a tie, you know.
10:53The good old days.
10:54Yeah.
10:55The good old days.
10:56Yeah.
10:57And there was, you know, the costumer was this flamboyant guy, just one name, Don Feld.
11:05I said, isn't it Don Feld?
11:09No.
11:10Don Feld.
11:11And he was so, you know, wonderful and he took care of me and he, you know, just all
11:19those things that you.
11:21Classic movie star treatment.
11:22Classic movie.
11:23Yeah.
11:24He said, you know how you're going to be a movie star?
11:25No, Don Feld.
11:26Tell me.
11:27And he said, you know, there's a little, when you try on a pair of pants, it's a little
11:32extra fabric.
11:33And then he took his hand and he gathered it up and goes, get rid of that.
11:41You'll be a star.
11:44This is going well.
11:45One of the wise words of Don Feld.
11:47If you haven't had a chance to see Spaceballs recently, I watched it during COVID.
11:52It is magic.
11:53It's like a gift from the gods.
11:54So please watch it.
11:55So after that, of course, Bill perfected the role of the nice guy in singles at League
12:01of Their Own, Sleepless in Seattle, While You Were Sleeping, Independence Day and so
12:04many other movies.
12:05And I've always wanted to ask you, did you feel like you were sort of trapped in nice
12:09guy jail for a long time?
12:11And I think Tom Hanks and Hugh Grant had similar trajectories where they got so good at playing
12:16these guys we're rooting for that after a while, did you kind of wish, I just want to
12:20play an asshole.
12:21I want to play someone who isn't good or doing the right thing.
12:24Or were you happy with the work you were getting?
12:26Because clearly you're a very gracious person.
12:28Well, you know, because I came out of the theater.
12:32So the whole idea wasn't to be a persona of one one thing.
12:37And yeah, then.
12:40So I was really restless by all that, you know, and sometimes just wouldn't do things
12:47and wait for something eccentric and weird, you know.
12:51And then I did a lot of it in the theater and been doing that was kind of your place
12:54to exercise your weird demons and then you do your well, yeah, but then I did some movies
12:59that people just don't seem to register, you know, Lost Highway or maybe there are people
13:05like your mom.
13:06I don't want to see that.
13:07She doesn't want to see you in a David Lynch movie, no, or Jennifer Lynch's movie that
13:13David produced, Surveillance.
13:15She shouldn't watch that.
13:17That's not good for mom.
13:18That's not good for mom.
13:20And, you know, I remember shooting scenes from Surveillance.
13:23We were in Canada and, you know, I like the Canadian crews a lot and they like me.
13:28I think they think I'm Canadian, you know, nice guy.
13:31You have a very Canadian vibe.
13:33I grew up close to Canada, Western New York State, but, you know, it's, you know, around
13:39the craft service and everything and talking to them, get to know their names, coming into
13:42the, you know, production studio, get to, and then we did the Nasty Sane and Surveillance.
13:49You'll have to see this movie to understand, yes.
13:51It's a big surprise and I came out, you know, I'm still in my head and everything, but I
13:58came out and I realized all those Canadian guys are like looking away, didn't want to
14:04see Bill Pullman.
14:05Didn't want to see me that way.
14:08Even those guys had a hard time with your transitioning to difficult parts.
14:12Because I think we get used to, we get comforted by people like you, sort of good guys.
14:16We want to see that people like you still exist in the world.
14:18At least that's how I feel.
14:19How'd you feel about that scene in the center when she was stepping on my fingers and I
14:25enjoyed it?
14:26It was a little uncomfortable.
14:27It was a little uncomfortable.
14:28For me, I feel like the center was a major turning point for seeing you in a different
14:32light.
14:33Amazing limited series, which is now, it's actually an anthology on Netflix, but was
14:36made for USA.
14:38And then how did that role in the center prepare you for playing this character in this Lifetime
14:44series?
14:45Were you able to access that darkness a little bit more easily, having done numerous seasons
14:49of that series, which is super dark and super psychologically taxing?
14:54Yeah.
14:55I think that in the center that Derek Simons was the creator and the showrunner and everything
15:03and he's a Jungian, so there was a lot of shadow self.
15:09And Harry Averroes is this detective who, his superpower is his empathetic connection
15:18to the criminals, people who killed or done bad things.
15:24So he's also, that membrane between them and him was a little porous.
15:30And it was kind of a four seasons arc going through that more and more and then kind of
15:39coming away from it.
15:40But I was always feeling that I would return to my side of the membrane.
15:46But suddenly with Murdoch, I could go to the other side.
15:52It's like a training session.
15:54All that prep for those four years to try to detect, see the tells of so much behavior
16:03and then to actually walk in there and be the one given the tells, you know?
16:10That's very interesting.
16:11And in closing, what do you feel is the most valuable part of this series artistically
16:16in terms of what we can take away from this performance?
16:19Because it is sort of the ultimate cautionary tale, but I think there's also just a lot
16:23to mine about, it's very American, it's centered on greed, it's centered on status.
16:28That's a lot of what I took away.
16:29But tell me what you think is the biggest artistic value of this series.
16:33Well, you know, I think that there is, it is amazing how long it takes to get on to
16:43a good con man.
16:46You know, we know this nationally, you know, it's really, I don't, I think it's
16:53just like you will not allow yourself to totally, you know, maybe that's a good thing
17:00for the human race that you, but there are people all around him never suspected him
17:06of it.
17:07And that was part of the phenomenon of reading about it and everything was, you know, how
17:13it kept appealing like an onion, you know?
17:18My friend Connie, who said, you know, old Satan must have taken a look at Murdoch.
17:23I'm like, whoa, dude, you're bad.
17:29And then I think it's still, you feel that and, you know, maybe that's why people say
17:33I hate that guy because they suddenly realize how a con man, but they're probably the most
17:40susceptible to con men.
17:41I think those people that say, I hate that guy, I can't watch that guy, they're probably
17:45the most susceptible.
17:46Or maybe they don't like to think that people can exist in plain sight in the way that it
17:51did in this story.
17:52And sort of this guy was a friend and neighbor and a dad and a colleague.
17:56And that's what's so disturbing is it could be anyone really.
17:59Yeah, yeah.
18:00And yeah, we're all sheep and they're the wolf.
18:05Well, on that note, Bill, amazing performance as always.
18:08You're very gracious and very kind and we're so honored to have you here tonight.
18:11Congratulations.
18:12Thank you all.
18:13Thank you all for coming.