The Lancashire Post, Lancashire Lead, Blog Preston and the Local Democracy Reporting Service invited all 10 candidates standing for the Preston constituency at next month's poll to a debate in which they fielded questions from voters.
Topics covered ranged from the state of Preston city centre to the conflict in Gaza and from the location for a new Royal Preston Hospital to the city's housing and pothole problems.
Six of those on the ballot took part in the event. In order of appearance from left to right on the stage, they are:
DAVID BROOKS (Alliance for Democracy and Freedom)
NEIL DARBY (Liberal Democrats)
TREVOR HART (Conservative Party)
SIR MARK HENDRICK (Labour and Co-Operative Party)
MICHAEL LAVALETTE (Independent)
JOSEPH O’MEACHAIR (Rejoin EU)
Two other candidates - YOUSUF BHAILOK (Independent) and ISABELLA METCALF-RIENER (Green Party) - addressed the room via pre-recorded videos, which were played out at the start of the event.
The two remaining candidates – JAMES ELLIOT (Reform UK) and DEREK KILLEEN (UKIP) – sent their apologies.
Topics covered ranged from the state of Preston city centre to the conflict in Gaza and from the location for a new Royal Preston Hospital to the city's housing and pothole problems.
Six of those on the ballot took part in the event. In order of appearance from left to right on the stage, they are:
DAVID BROOKS (Alliance for Democracy and Freedom)
NEIL DARBY (Liberal Democrats)
TREVOR HART (Conservative Party)
SIR MARK HENDRICK (Labour and Co-Operative Party)
MICHAEL LAVALETTE (Independent)
JOSEPH O’MEACHAIR (Rejoin EU)
Two other candidates - YOUSUF BHAILOK (Independent) and ISABELLA METCALF-RIENER (Green Party) - addressed the room via pre-recorded videos, which were played out at the start of the event.
The two remaining candidates – JAMES ELLIOT (Reform UK) and DEREK KILLEEN (UKIP) – sent their apologies.
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NewsTranscript
00:00:00Good evening everybody, welcome to this Leicestershire Post, Blog, Weston and Leicestershire League
00:00:16Election Huston's Debate. Thank you all very much indeed for coming. My name is Paul Porter,
00:00:21I'm one of the local democracy reporters here in Leicestershire and I'll be steering you
00:00:25through the next couple of hours of what I'm sure will be an interesting and perhaps
00:00:30who knows lively debate. We'd be glad to know you'll be hearing far less from me than you will
00:00:34the people that you've actually come to see and hear and quiz, the people who want to be
00:00:38Preston's next MP and I'll introduce you to them in just a moment. Now looking out at such a
00:00:44civilised audience here I'm sure I don't need to say this next bit but I've had my orders so I'll
00:00:48say it anyway. We obviously want tonight to be a respectful event where everybody gets the chance
00:00:53to have their say and also to be heard so if I could ask you to resist the temptation to shout
00:00:59out or talk over anybody then that would be much appreciated. I'm sure you'll find polite ways to
00:01:04signal your appreciation of what's being said. A couple of other things, some housekeeping rules,
00:01:10we're not expecting a fire alarm so if you hear one sound then please follow the signs to the
00:01:14nearest exit. The toilets for anybody who needs them I've been reliably informed are at the doors
00:01:19at the back and then as far down to the left hand side as you can go. If I could ask you please to
00:01:24switch off your mobile phones or at least put them to silence that would be great.
00:01:29You've already heard far too much from me this evening so let's get down to the reason that
00:01:33you're all here and welcome to the stage the candidates. From your left to right as you look
00:01:38at them and in alphabetical order we have David Brooks representing the Alliance for Democracy and
00:01:43Freedom, Neil Darby from the Liberal Democrats, Trevor Hart representing the Conservatives,
00:01:50then we've got Mark Hendrick for Labour, we've got Michael Avales who is an independent,
00:01:59and finally we've got Joseph Omiaka from the Rejoin EU Party. Now you may or may not know
00:02:05that there are actually 10 candidates standing in the Preston constituency at the general election.
00:02:10We did of course invite all of them here tonight but four of them have had to send their apologies.
00:02:15They are in alphabetical order Yusuf Bailak who is standing as an independent,
00:02:19James Elliott from Reform UK, Derek Killeen from UKIP and Isabella Metcalfe-Reiner from
00:02:27the Green Party. Although by the wonders of technology you will be hearing from a couple
00:02:32of them shortly and that's because we thought we would start this evening by giving each of
00:02:36the candidates their chance to make their pitch to the people of Preston in 60 seconds. We're
00:02:43going to go in alphabetical order with the people that you can see on the stage here but first as I
00:02:48say we gave the opportunity to the people who aren't here tonight also to send a video if they
00:02:52would like so that they can at least make their 90 second pitch even though they aren't able to
00:02:57be with us this evening. Two of them took up that opportunity Yusuf Bailak and Isabella Metcalfe-Reiner
00:03:04so the screen will now return and you'll be declined to the view of these gents here just
00:03:08for a few minutes and we'll hear from our two other candidates who aren't here this evening
00:03:13but who did nonetheless want to address you and first Yusuf Bailak standing as an independent.
00:04:09So I felt that the opportunity now came at this late stage of my life to represent this hometown of mine
00:04:19and also the community which involves the Muslims and also the rest of the community and it's time
00:04:26that I actually voice a true voice for the people of Preston in all aspects
00:04:34of politics, socially, economically. So I say to all Prestonians that we
00:04:41belong to this town and I now feel that it's time for me to contribute whatever I can
00:04:46to this town and in the end where our children are going to go for the future,
00:04:52what I hope they see we want to do for our children in education, in their morality and
00:04:57also in terms of making sure that everybody feels a stake on them in this society.
00:05:04And next we'll hear from Isabella MacLachlan-Rainer for the Green Party.
00:05:19Hi everyone I'm Isabella MacLachlan-Rainer, the Green Party parliamentary candidate for Preston.
00:05:24Apologies for not being able to be there tonight but I'm really glad I'm able to address you
00:05:28in this way. All the cards are clear, the Conservatives are set for a historic defeat
00:05:33and Labour will win out our majority. The concern is that Keir Starmer's Labour government will not
00:05:39implement the real change that we so desperately need. It's clear that we need more than just a
00:05:43few small tweaks to undo the damage of the last 14 years of Conservative governments.
00:05:49Green MPs in Parliament will push Labour to be better, be braver, be bolder and be more ambitious
00:05:55on everything from workers' rights and the NHS to climate action, support for Gaza and eradicating
00:06:01poverty. I know in particular that many people feel let down by Keir Starmer's Labour, in particular
00:06:09by Keir Starmer declaring that Israel had a right to cut off water and electricity to Gaza and
00:06:14ordering his MPs to not vote for a ceasefire in Parliament. It's particularly disappointing that
00:06:21I'm an MP here in Preston so Mark Hendrick followed Keir Starmer's orders and did not vote for a ceasefire.
00:06:29The Green Party have been clear in our stance since the very beginning of this process,
00:06:34calling for the immediate and mutual ceasefire, the unconditional release of all hostages and
00:06:39the suspension of arms sales to Israel. Vote Green on the 4th of July for real hope and real change. Thank you.
00:06:48Thank you.
00:06:53And with that we're back in the room.
00:07:17So now we'll afford the same opportunity to all the candidates here on the stage to
00:07:33address you for 90 seconds to make their opening pitch to you, the people of Preston and as I say
00:07:38they will go in alphabetical order so starting down at the far end there we have from Alliance
00:07:43for Democracy and Freedom David Brooks. David your 90 seconds start now. Good evening everybody
00:07:49thank you for coming tonight. I'm an independent candidate from the ADF. I'm not whipped and I'm not
00:07:56I'm not dictated to, I'm told what to do, what policies to push, what ideologies to push.
00:08:02Most of these gentlemen here have been told that there's only two genders. We're living, we're
00:08:06paying an extortionate amount of money for net zero and 98.5% of all greenhouse gas is produced
00:08:12by nature and essential to nature. We've got a cost of living crisis where kids are struggling
00:08:16to heat, struggling to eat, struggling to heat their homes. We've got so many other issues like
00:08:21we've got additives and sweeteners in the foods that are causing cancer. Only the other month
00:08:25Derek Corke was in the news for causing cancer. There's some serious issues but we seem to be
00:08:29skirting around the main issues with anecdotal stuff and supporting wars in nations
00:08:37with killing kids, wars of attrition, cutting water off, cutting food off. It's disgusting.
00:08:43It's about time somebody stood up who's not whipped, somebody independent who's not pushed,
00:08:48who's not got an ideology and who just wants to serve the people and some honest policies and
00:08:52some truths that need to be told. David well done. Thank you very much and next we move to
00:08:59the Liberal Democrats and Neil Darby. We're standing up, we're sitting just to you. Entirely
00:09:03up to you Neil. David could be heard so yes, make yourself more comfortable. I'll sit if that's
00:09:07alright. So good evening, my name is Neil Darby. I'm the Liberal Democrat candidate to be your MP
00:09:13here in Preston. I'm also as it happens one of the youngest candidates that we have that's standing
00:09:19and I'm here to stand for the future of Preston and I'm here to stand for change.
00:09:22But I should be clear that being a young candidate is not the same as being inexperienced.
00:09:27In my day job I worked for a local Lancashire family business and I'm also the trustee for
00:09:32three local charities. I've been a councillor here in Preston for 10 years and I had the good
00:09:37honour of being the Mayor of Preston, the youngest Mayor of Preston in over 170 years in 2022-23.
00:09:44And in everything I do I strive to be visible and to be accessible and to reach out across
00:09:50the community because that is what I strongly believe our representatives are here to do.
00:09:55My top priorities in this election are to tackle the crisis that we have in our NHS and in our
00:10:00social care system, to tackle the crime that we have and to tackle the ongoing cost of living.
00:10:06I'm standing because I strongly believe that Preston deserves better. I believe that with
00:10:11my proud history of representing this city and the policies that I stand for I'm the
00:10:16right man to take this city forward into the future as our MP. Thank you.
00:10:20Neil, thank you very much indeed.
00:10:23And Trevor for the Conservatives, over to you. You've got 90 seconds, start now.
00:10:27Thank you, good evening. I'm Trevor Hart and I made Preston my home when I was about 11. So I
00:10:34didn't start off in Preston but I came and then I went to teach. So I trained, I started my career
00:10:40in Coventry but I came back to my home what I considered to be Preston. From the age of 11 I
00:10:46started here and then as I started my career. Head teacher in a local school in Preston. Education
00:10:54is something that I'm passionate about, providing the good start for our children, looking after
00:11:01them, helping them develop, making sure that we've got good schools in our city in the right places
00:11:08is a passion of mine. As well as that the National Health Service, the hospitals. If we're lucky we're
00:11:16going to get a new hospital built in Preston. It's really really critical that that happens.
00:11:21I've been spending far too much time at the hospitals. I lost my wife to cancer, I went
00:11:27through cancer myself recently. I know what a good service it can provide. The model we've got in
00:11:34Rosemary is something that we should be presenting for all of our hospitals. It's really really
00:11:39important. Working with the police, making sure that our city is crime free as far as we're able
00:11:46and better and better. It's so so important. Those are three passions of mine that I would want to
00:11:52bring forward and try to help our city to get better.
00:11:55Trevor, I've got to restrict the time.
00:11:57Right, that's absolutely fine. That's who I am.
00:12:00We move on next please to Preston's representative MP, Ladies.
00:12:06Thanks Paul. It's a great honour to represent the people of Preston in Parliament. I've been
00:12:11selected again to stand as your Labour and Co-operative Party candidate for the forthcoming
00:12:16election and since I last stood we now have a changed Labour Party. I have ambitious plans as
00:12:23well to rebuild this country. We want to get economic stability back, cut NHS waiting times,
00:12:31launch a new security border command, set up Great British Energy, crack down on anti-social behaviour
00:12:38and recruit six and a half thousand new teachers. For the last 14 years as your MP I've seen first
00:12:45hand many of the problems that people of Preston have faced and I've worked tirelessly to try and
00:12:50improve the lives of thousands of individuals who have suffered under this Conservative government.
00:12:56By electing a Labour government we can achieve real change. I'm also a strong advocate for
00:13:02issues that matter to you. International conflicts, animal rights, justice, civil rights,
00:13:08many others that people reach out to me every day to help with. Many of you will be extremely
00:13:15concerned about the war in Gaza. I am too and whilst I didn't vote for the SND motion I did
00:13:20vote for the Labour Party motion which also supported a ceasefire. The Labour Party talked
00:13:25me to support an immediate ceasefire from both sides along with recognition of the state of
00:13:31Palestine and a two-state solution as a way forward. Mark that's your 90 seconds I'm afraid
00:13:36thank you very much indeed for that. And next up, standing as an independent, Michael Laveller.
00:13:46My name's Michael Laveller, I'm standing on behalf of Preston Independence. Preston Independence
00:13:51was formed as an organisation in March because we felt that the political parties in this country
00:13:56simply didn't represent us. The political establishment talks down to us, they never
00:14:01listen and that for us formed through our campaign around Gaza in the first instance.
00:14:06Since November 75% of the population have been in favour of a ceasefire, 58% of the population are
00:14:12in favour of stopping arming Israel, yet there's no politician in the mainstream political parties
00:14:18who speak out for those things. And that rolls forward, it rolls forward to how our NHS is treated,
00:14:23how our education systems are treated, even things like Ashton Park and the sale of parts
00:14:28of Ashton Park in Preston. When the local population don't want such things to happen,
00:14:33the political establishment just don't listen. Now Mark said he'd been an MP for 14 years, I think
00:14:38it's actually 25, but that's perhaps symbolic of the fact that he's not around enough for the
00:14:45people in Preston, that people don't know where his office is, that people don't know how to get
00:14:50in contact with him. I don't think that we've got an MP who represents us. Labour will win the
00:14:54election on the 5th of July, but what I'm arguing for is somebody who will stand up for the people
00:14:59of Preston, speak out in Westminster, isn't whipped and will put Preston and people first.
00:15:08And finally we have Joseph O'Rourke from Rejoin EU. Joseph your 90 seconds start now.
00:15:15Thank you very much. Rejoin EU is a party made up of people from right across the political
00:15:22spectrum, both Leavers and Remainers, who've come to recognise that Brexit has been a disaster
00:15:29and is the fundamental problem that we face in this country. The Office for Budget Responsibility
00:15:35and Goldman Sachs have estimated that the total economic hit to this country has been over £100
00:15:42billion and 45%, depending on the estimate, a decrease in our GDP during that time.
00:15:50This is far worse than anybody predicted before the referendum happened. And you can see this
00:15:57even in Preston itself. I mean all of us are, if we're honest, we can see that Preston has been
00:16:02going downhill, shops are closing, the place is just much less vibrant than it was before
00:16:08the referendum happened. Britain's position in the world has also been diminished as a result of
00:16:14Brexit. There is no patriotism in waiting for some fantasy Brexit fairyland where everything's
00:16:22going to come right, because it's not going to happen. All that's happening is that our
00:16:26opportunities, our children and our grandchildren's opportunities are being diminished. Now Labour
00:16:33will win this election, but every vote that you cast for Rejoin EU sends a clear message
00:16:42to Keir Starmer that this issue cannot be avoided anymore. Joseph, I'm going to have to put you up
00:16:49there, but thank you very much indeed, and thanks to all our candidates for their opening pitches.
00:16:54So let me tell you how this is going to work tonight. Basically the evening will be split
00:16:58into two parts because a lot of you very kindly submitted questions in advance,
00:17:02far too many to ask them all individually I'm afraid, but it has enabled us to draw together a
00:17:07few themes that hopefully will reflect the issues that matter to you, the people of Preston, and
00:17:12we'll use that as the basis to ask a series of questions to the candidates, drawing in as many
00:17:16of your specific points as we can. Now don't worry if we don't directly address the issue that you've
00:17:21raised, you can still get a chance to ask your specific questions in part two when we'll open
00:17:25it up to the floor, and I should say that part two follows straight after part one because I don't
00:17:30want to get anybody's hopes up about the idea of refreshments or somebody putting around an ice
00:17:34cream or anything like that, because you'll be waiting a long time for that. It's all politics
00:17:38all the way until we finish tonight which will be well in advance of nine o'clock, but we do want
00:17:43to get through as much as we can tonight and also you know give you the chance to ask your questions
00:17:48as many of them as possible and to hear as many of the responses from our candidates here as we
00:17:53possibly can. So I thought we'd start with our opening theme which is Preston, because what's
00:17:59more important to the people of Preston than Preston itself? And one of our audience members
00:18:04sat here and submitted a question that commented that Preston's High Street is in a dire state
00:18:10with numerous boarded up shops and a general sense of neglect. The area looks bleak and run down and
00:18:16there's no longer a sense of pride in our community and they want to know what specific actions you
00:18:22will take, each of you, to address these issues and how will you secure more funding for substantial
00:18:27improvements and ensure that Preston can thrive again. So on that particular theme and on that
00:18:33particular topic let me come first if I can to Neil Darby. Thank you very much. It is a real shame
00:18:41when you look around and we can see the impacts that the economic downturn has had across the
00:18:46country and particularly here in Preston. I think what's really important is we need to be looking
00:18:50at the cost of living crisis and how we can work against that which will also then have a knock-on
00:18:56impact if there's more money knocking around we'll have more money for Preston which will improve
00:19:00our High Street and our overall street scene. So something that we want to be working on is looking
00:19:04at a real green revolution. We want to be building more renewables and we want to be insulating homes
00:19:10across the country. It's a brand new industry that we can be kick-starting and we've got a really
00:19:15exciting opportunity to be the very heart of that here in Preston. What the Liberal Democrats also
00:19:20want to do is to increase the amount of funding that we have for local governments. As you'll know
00:19:24we've seen cutbacks year after year after year since the the late days of the last Labour
00:19:30government and that continued since then. We need to turn that around so there's more money in the
00:19:34local economy to turn things around. Neil, thank you very much for that. We're just giving everybody
00:19:39for about 50 to 60 seconds to make their opening comments on each of these these questions and
00:19:44themes that we're raising. If I could come to Joseph next because you seem to in your opening
00:19:49pitch seem to lay the blame for any decline in Preston as people may or may not see it at the
00:19:54door of Brexit. Is that really the case? Well largely yes actually I do and I think that we
00:20:01need to be realistic about this. Preston of course will go downhill as it has been doing if the
00:20:08overall British economy declines which it has been doing and we need to be honest and upfront about
00:20:14this with ourselves with our neighbours and with those all of us around this table and in the
00:20:21political family generally that the experiment of Brexit has led to tremendous damage not just here
00:20:29in Preston but particularly may I say in the north of England. There are two areas of this country
00:20:34that are still doing well. London which is large financial services and particularly Northern
00:20:40Ireland which has remained within the single market. We need to take a lesson from that.
00:20:47Joseph thank you very much indeed. Mark sorry to come to you just taking a sip of water there
00:20:52but I was going to ask you as Preston's most recent MP and you've represented the area for
00:20:5724 years are you proud when you walk around the city and proud when you walk around the city
00:21:01centre? Not in its current condition. When I was first elected as the MP we had a Labour government
00:21:06and we were pumping millions into the local economy. In 2002 this city, what is now a city
00:21:13got city status because I championed that cause with the government at the time. That city status
00:21:19has brought more investment into Preston and certainly for my first 10 years in Parliament
00:21:24between 2000 and 2010. What we saw was huge improvements to the health service, to businesses,
00:21:30to investment in the dock areas which again drew investment as a result of city status.
00:21:35This university has doubled in size since we had the Labour government and this will continue to
00:21:41thrive hopefully when we do get a Labour government after this election and in terms of investment
00:21:46that's what make a difference. Investment in local services, in local government, in local
00:21:51the health services that we have in Amherst. This city has a future but it only has a future
00:21:56under Labour. Mark thank you very much indeed. Trevor we'll come to you next. You talked about
00:22:01your home being in Preston, is it a place you would recommend to others?
00:22:06Preston's a place I love but you're absolutely right it's not looking good right now. I walked
00:22:13around the city centre, the amount of shops that are closed it's absolute disgrace. It is dying on
00:22:20its feet. You try and get into Preston and the roads almost sort of stop you getting into now
00:22:27pushing you further and further apart. Getting in is tricky. Parking's expensive. Shops are
00:22:33closing down. The night time economy, the offer that's on there at the moment isn't good enough.
00:22:39We haven't got a theatre right now. We spent money in Preston. The Labour council have spent money
00:22:46in Preston and invested in there but have they actually improved Preston? Have they made it
00:22:50somewhere that we want to go into? I don't think so. I think we need to attract funds. I think we
00:22:56need to spend it wisely. I think we need to get both Preston city council, Lancashire county council
00:23:02and the business all involved together to make a difference. Trevor thank you very much indeed.
00:23:07David if I can come to you on this one. How would you respond to people who say that Preston's
00:23:12run down and looking not at its best to put it mildly? Yeah that's been over the last few years.
00:23:16I'd say there's definitely a decline in the town and it's definitely nothing to do with Brexit.
00:23:20All the western countries across the world, they're all having the economic hardship. They're
00:23:25all having financial difficulty similar to the same we are. One of the biggest reasons why
00:23:29everybody's struggling is because we're spending vast amounts of money on net zero nonsense. 98.5%
00:23:35minimum of all greenhouse gas is produced and essential to nature. How much are we going to
00:23:42spend to stop what percentage? There's a decline in the town because we've got no access and no
00:23:48parking. We've put cycle lanes and bus lanes in coming into the town centre so that we can force
00:23:54people out of cars and into public transport for the same reason that we've signed into a
00:23:59climate emergency. There is no emergency. It's Milankovic's cycles. It's a natural cycle.
00:24:04Everybody knows about ice ages. I'm happy to discuss this science with anybody at any time.
00:24:10David thank you very much indeed and coming to you Michael finally on this particular one,
00:24:15the issue of Preston and its current state and current condition. Yeah I think Preston like
00:24:21many cities is showing the effects of years of austerity and actually more than that. Years
00:24:27of austerity takes us back to 2008 under Labour government and the banking crisis but it stretches
00:24:33back and it goes back to the ways in which local government have been reorganised and marketised.
00:24:38Local services have been put out to tender and the import that we've had of large multinational
00:24:45corporations forcing down wages. All of that means that people in Preston have got a lower
00:24:50standard of living than the national average. The average wage in Preston is about £6,000
00:24:56below the national average as a whole. That's at £29,000 but there are some people who earn
00:25:02£14,000 on wages. It's about wages in Preston. We need decent jobs, we need decent paying wages,
00:25:07we need investment in this city and we need to invest in ways that give our young people hope
00:25:12and opportunity. We need proper apprenticeships and we need them in the new industries to drive
00:25:17growth in Preston and rejuvenate the city and the people itself. Michael, thank you very much indeed
00:25:23for that and a similar theme here. Somebody in the audience has submitted a question asking for
00:25:29your five main commitments to Preston. Now I've been around long enough to know that it's not a
00:25:33good idea to ask politicians for a list of five of anything so can we keep it to one and just very
00:25:37quickly if each of you could pitch your one priority and commitment for Preston and its
00:25:44future. We'll start this time with Joseph. Well my priority as you might imagine is for this
00:25:52constituency to send a clear message to the incoming Labour government that we must reverse
00:25:57the appalling trend in our economic decline. That's for this city and for all the towns and
00:26:03villages round about as well. We must do something about Brexit. Trevor. My priority for Preston
00:26:12is education. It's what my background is, it's what I know about, it's investing in our children's
00:26:17future, making sure that we've got good schools in our city, in the right place, serving local
00:26:24children. That's how you start off. It's about the future of our young children. David, come to you
00:26:31on this one. Basically the most important thing to me is the health of the children.
00:26:36Prosperity etc nothing means anything without good health. The food industry is just disgusting.
00:26:42We've got sweeteners and additives in drinks that are known to cause cancer. It's been in the news
00:26:46now, everybody knows. Aspartame, isomethane, destroys the gut microbiome, causes cancer. This is
00:26:52not, this is indisputable. We need to be having serious discussions with the food agencies and
00:26:58the food companies and tell them that we don't want this stuff in the food for our children.
00:27:02Mark, if we come to you, your main commitment to Preston. We've got to pump money, a lot more
00:27:06money, into the NHS. People can't get to see the GP. Only Ray can get to the GP,
00:27:12say, more than a day after. People need to be able to get to hospital. We have seven and a half
00:27:16million people on waiting lists for operations. Before Covid it was still close to two and a half
00:27:22million. So when they just blame Covid for this, it's not true. And we need six and a half thousand
00:27:29more nurses, at the very least, to start getting nursing levels up so people can
00:27:33get the treatment that they deserve. Michael, can I ask you, Preston's top priority from your
00:27:38perspective? I've got some issues and concerns that I think we need to raise around austerity,
00:27:43health, education, but I'll maybe come back to those later. For me, the one priority,
00:27:48which is Preston specific, is that I actually think that the MP needs to have an office in
00:27:52the town centre so that people know where the MP's office is, where they can get in contact
00:27:56with them, how they can come and meet with them and get that representation, because we've got a
00:28:02representational crisis and that's one step to solve that and then address the other issues from
00:28:07there. So Michael, I have something to say about that a little later on, but finally on this
00:28:12particular one, Neil, if we can come to you, your commitments to the people of Preston.
00:28:16My top priority is the NHS. Generations of my family have worked in the NHS and the NHS has
00:28:23been doing an excellent job of keeping my mum alive for the last 10 or more years now.
00:28:27We desperately need to put more funds and resources into it and the Lib Dems have committed over £8
00:28:32billion to do exactly that. We need to recognise that the staff that we have are world-class,
00:28:38but they are being let down, they're being overworked and all too often they're being
00:28:41asked to work in out-of-date and crumbling facilities, but we also need to reform the
00:28:45health service and the social care service to unify them together and recognise that we need
00:28:50to change the system going forward, otherwise you're just throwing more good money after bad.
00:28:55And finally, we need patients' rights so that everyone is able to see a GP within seven days
00:29:00or 24 hours in an emergency. Neil, thank you very much indeed.
00:29:04That's where we'll wrap that particular one up and move on to our next topic this evening,
00:29:09which is Gaza, which is one of the most popular topics of all the questions that we had
00:29:13submitted. A lot of questions about the conflict and also the Hamas attack on Israel on the 7th
00:29:17of October, running the gamut of opinions on the subject, as you might imagine. So we have
00:29:22tried to come up with a bit of an amalgam of questions from all the different viewpoints
00:29:28that were submitted and we'll put them to our panel now. And as I say, you will of course have
00:29:32the opportunity to ask some questions nearer the end if you have any specifics that have gone
00:29:37unanswered. Now, several people have commented on the civilian loss of life in Gaza. One question
00:29:44is saying, too many innocent civilians have been killed. What would you do about this?
00:29:47And another specifically asking that they want this country to stop selling arms to Israel
00:29:52and asking, would you push for this in Parliament? So if we can start with you, David, on this one,
00:29:58innocent civilian life in Gaza and the toll of the current conflict.
00:30:02Well, yeah, again, I think our government is disgusting, dropping bombs on innocent kids,
00:30:06a war of attrition, turning water off and stopping the food supply to kids.
00:30:11It's just disgusting. And Keir Starmer supported that. We've also got many more issues going on.
00:30:16Nobody seems to be pushing for a ceasefire. People just seem to be pushing for war.
00:30:22They all have vested interests in the military industrial complex.
00:30:26And this is where we seem to be going. The mainstream parties just want war and suffering.
00:30:32Joseph, on this particular one and the conflict in Gaza from the Palestinian perspective
00:30:37particularly? Do you want me to answer from the Palestinian perspective?
00:30:41Well, these questions are certainly coming in terms of talking about too many innocent
00:30:46civilians being killed in Gaza. We've got the questions, as I say, to follow.
00:30:50Any innocent civilian death is an appalling tragedy wherever they live.
00:30:56One of the key problems we're facing is that there's been a progressive breakdown
00:31:00in the international acceptance of a code of practice and a code of conduct that sovereign
00:31:06nations all accept. The ability for sovereign nations to accept independent arbitration
00:31:13is at the key of what's going on here because there isn't that acceptance anymore.
00:31:19Everything that leads to the diminution of the ability of the world international order
00:31:25to take control and to end conflicts like this is causing, and will cause not just in Gaza,
00:31:31but in other conflicts coming down the line, increasing problems for all of us.
00:31:40And of course we are all appalled by the tragic loss of life throughout the entire
00:31:46Middle Eastern region. What happened on October the 7th and subsequently must be deplored.
00:31:52Neil, if I could bring you particularly to the question that was asked regarding the sale of
00:31:57arms to Israel, is that something you would push to end in parliament?
00:32:01I mean, if we don't deal with the crisis at all, all that's going to happen is we're going to
00:32:06repeat this tragedy time and time again. We need an international solution. We need countries to
00:32:13come together from around the world to try and bring about an immediate bilateral ceasefire,
00:32:18and it's important we focus on it being bilateral. We need to have a two-state solution based on the
00:32:241967 borders, but we need to be, we need to call out Israel, which does mean we need to question
00:32:31whether or not we want to continue to act the way that we have done, but it is also important that
00:32:36we look on the other side of the conflict, and we also need to make sure that any peace is going to
00:32:40remove Hamas from the equation as well, because otherwise there is not going to be any peace.
00:32:45We need to be able to call out on both sides, and that would be where I stand on that.
00:32:51Michael, from your perspective, the impact of the conflict in Gaza on the civilian population?
00:32:57To answer the question, an absolute ceasefire now, an end to arms sales to Israel as a beginning,
00:33:04but for the bigger question, what is the solution to the question in Palestine? Well, we have to
00:33:09realise that it didn't start on the 7th of October. There's a 76-year history of hurt
00:33:14in the state of Palestine, and so the solution is one where, from the river Jordan to the
00:33:20Mediterranean, there is a society where it is based on one person, one vote of equality. There
00:33:25is no ethno-nationalist state, and that those who have been expelled from their land for 76 years
00:33:30and live in refugee camps, some of them for 76 years in refugee camps, have the right that every
00:33:36refugee around the world has, which is the right to return to their home. So, a right of return
00:33:40for the refugees, an end to apartheid in Israel, one person, one vote between the river Jordan and
00:33:45the Mediterranean, an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and stop selling arms to Israel.
00:33:52Michael McNeil, on this particular one, what is the impact of the Gaza conflict on the Palestinian
00:33:58people? Well, the conflict, I wouldn't call it a conflict, I'd call it a war, because effectively
00:34:04Israel has effectively declared a full-scale war now on the people of Palestine. I first
00:34:10went to Palestine in 2002. I met with Yasser Arafat when the man was still alive, I met with
00:34:17Abu Maaz, who was still the president of Fatah. I've been to Palestine several times over the years,
00:34:22and I've also been to Gaza, and I've seen Gaza from the inside, and it's terrible what's being
00:34:28done, it's inhumane. I've also been to South Africa, not long after apartheid, and the way
00:34:33that Palestinians are being treated by Israelis, both in the West Bank and in Gaza, is worse than
00:34:40what the South Africans did to the blacks in South Africa. When I mentioned that to Israeli
00:34:46politicians, they've been disgusted with the comments that I've made. Now, it seems that
00:34:52many people, probably some of you not even alive looking around the room, that when I was first
00:34:56elected 24 years ago, I've been with this subject for a very long time. I've always taken a balanced
00:35:01view, and said, a bit like Neil, that we need to go back to those 67 borders, because that was what
00:35:07was agreed originally, but was never fully signed into a proper treaty after Oslo. So that's where
00:35:14we need to be, and I'm fully behind the Palestinians with the way that they're trying to get
00:35:19self-determination and international recognition. Mark, thank you, and Trevor, just finally to you
00:35:24on this one. Yes, equally, when you see what is taking place, you can't fail but to be horrified.
00:35:32The loss of life that we're seeing across our televisions, day in day out, it is horrendous.
00:35:38The war has to stop, so for that there needs to be a ceasefire, and there needs to be a ceasefire now.
00:35:44The hostages need to be released, and they need to be released on all sides. There shouldn't be
00:35:49any question, hostages taken is wrong. We need to get aid in there, because there are people
00:35:56suffering day in, day out, and that has got to be a priority, to get it in, and get it into the
00:36:02people that need it, and need it now. We need to rebuild. People have got nowhere to live now,
00:36:09just look at what the place is like, it's horrendous. So there has to be a rebuilding package
00:36:15that supports what takes place, and then there has to be work towards lasting peace, and there
00:36:22needs to be a solution, a two-state solution perhaps, but there needs to be the treaty that
00:36:28is grieved by all, for the good of all the people. Some very specific questions on this, and a couple
00:36:34of them hopefully we can rattle through in virtually one word or one sentence, so we can
00:36:39stay with you Trevor for the next one. This one is indeed very specific, do you all denounce Hamas
00:36:45as a terrorist organisation, regardless of your views on the current Israeli actions in Gaza?
00:36:50Straight answer, yes. Mark Hendry? Yes. Michael Adelaide? No.
00:37:02Because I think when your land is occupied, and it has been for 76 years, people have the right
00:37:09to resist. You have the right to resist the second world war, and the French resistance,
00:37:12the Yugoslav resistance, the Italian resistance, the Greek resistance,
00:37:16and the Palestinians have the right to fight against their own dispossession.
00:37:24And just to answer that, so all the shouts about it has now been disproven, so it's not
00:37:28even true and accurate what the person's shouting from the floor. In the vein that you were talking
00:37:34about Hamas and its status as you see it, do you condemn their actions on the 7th of October,
00:37:42if you don't denounce Hamas as a terrorist organisation, do you denounce the 7th of October?
00:37:48Sorry Michael. So history didn't start on the 7th of October. On the 6th of October, there was
00:37:55attacks on Sheikh Jarrah. On March last year, there was an attack on Hawara, which is on the
00:38:02main road between Nablus and Tulkarem, and there was people burnt out their homes. History didn't
00:38:07start on the 7th of October, there's a context to all of that. So that's a no, you don't denounce
00:38:12the 7th of October. Yes, Hamas is a terrorist organisation, and they've been terrorising the
00:38:21Palestinian people as much as everybody else for years, and we need to recognise that. We can have
00:38:26no track with them, full stop. Do you have any evidence on that? Absolutely, you need to denounce
00:38:33Hamas as a terrorist organisation. You're right in that the war, it didn't start on the 7th of
00:38:39October. There have been issues in the Middle East going back far longer than most of us here have
00:38:43been alive, but to not denounce an outright terrorist attack, I'm sorry, that is unacceptable.
00:38:50Absolutely unacceptable. David, your opinion on this, do you denounce Hamas as a terrorist
00:38:56organisation is the question. I find it difficult to denounce Hamas, as Israel set Hamas up.
00:39:04It's an extension of the Israeli government. I find it hard to support Israel when they've
00:39:11supplied Argentina with bombs in the Falklands war that killed the British people.
00:39:20I'm not prescribing, I'm not saying yes or no in support. I'm indifferent because it's not what
00:39:26it's portrayed to be. In fairness, as Michael said, he didn't denounce Hamas as a terrorist
00:39:30organisation. I'd like to ask the same question to you. Do you denounce the 7th of October attack
00:39:35in Israel? Any innocent children dying is disgusting and abhorrent. Do I have to say yes?
00:39:42You denounce? We don't know the full details yet. I'm not prepared to disclose
00:39:46what my feelings are when the true nature of the events have not been told.
00:39:53I can see some of the questions specifically to individuals, and there is one specifically for
00:39:57Mark Hendrick, asking why you abstained on the vote in Parliament on an immediate ceasefire
00:40:02last November. That was the SNP motion that was mentioned a little earlier.
00:40:06The official opposition was the Labour Party, not the SNP. We put forward our own motion which
00:40:11talked about cessation of hostilities. I voted for cessation of hostilities because it was our
00:40:17motion. The wording of the SNP one was different. Yes, it was an immediate ceasefire, wasn't it?
00:40:22The point I'm making is that we're not there to support the SNP. We're the official opposition.
00:40:35We make forward the motion for the opposition. They can do what they want. We don't see them
00:40:40as part of our opposition to fight the government. It's only to the opposition, as far as I'm
00:40:46concerned, not the SNP. What was the distinction, as you saw it then, between the SNP motion?
00:40:54There was a minor nuance in the wording. It upset a lot of people, though, didn't it?
00:40:57Well, it upset some who only talk about the SNP. Not many people said it today,
00:41:02but not many people say that this is an SNP motion. It's the motion, and it wasn't the motion.
00:41:10It wasn't the motion. There was no Labour motion at that time.
00:41:14If you want to open it up to the floor at the end, we've got to keep it so that
00:41:25everybody's able to have a say on the panel, and we will open it up to the floor at the end. If
00:41:28you've got specific questions, by all means, then certainly come in. One more specific one,
00:41:34here to Michael Averless, asking you specifically, Michael, that this particular question that
00:41:40believes you're the person responsible for organising children marching for a ceasefire
00:41:44in Preston. Since the October 7th attack on Israel, two members of the Jewish community,
00:41:50this questioner says, were approached by children in schools whilst volunteering.
00:41:54One was told they'd have nothing to do with Jews. The other was told Jews are evil.
00:41:58And the question basically is, do you think your pro-Palestinian campaigning is having
00:42:02more of an effect on Jews in the UK and here in Preston than on the Middle East peace process?
00:42:08No, not at all. I've been on 15 national demonstrations. I've organised the coaches
00:42:13to 15 national demonstrations since October, and in each of those demonstrations there is a very
00:42:18large and very vibrant Jewish block. I've been on lots of demonstrations throughout my life,
00:42:24and the demonstrations since October have been about the most dreadful events, but they've been
00:42:30some of the most family-friendly events that I've been at. They're not at all as they've been
00:42:34portrayed. And the children's march that I organised through Preston, I think was a wonderful
00:42:39celebration of children looking at pictures of what was happening to children their age in Gaza
00:42:44and wanting to express their opinion about it, so I don't see any problem at all with that.
00:42:48If the outcome of it was even intentional, if the outcome of it was what the questioner says,
00:42:52and not that kind of hostility towards Jews in school.
00:42:54So I've had no evidence of that. I haven't seen that. I don't want any forms of racism
00:43:02or anti-Semitism to take place, but my experience on all those demonstrations is that I have not
00:43:07come across any anti-Semitism. There is a hostility towards the Zionist project,
00:43:12but there is no hostility towards Jews. There is no anti-Semitism.
00:43:25I think regardless of what is happening in the Middle East, we need to be aware and conscious
00:43:30of the fact that both Islamophobia and anti-Semitism has gone through the roof in this
00:43:35country since last year. And first and foremost, we are here to be the MP for Preston. And yes,
00:43:42we will have, as an MP, a responsibility to what the UK does abroad, but our primary responsibility
00:43:50has got to be looking after our own citizens, our own residents here in Preston. And we have to be
00:43:55very careful about what we do and say, and make sure that we're not stirring up hate against each
00:44:00other, regardless of race, regardless of religion, regardless of anything at all.
00:44:04We are all equal as citizens here.
00:44:10If our government stopped interfering in other international countries,
00:44:17stopped putting the two pence worth in and causing these wars and exacerbating them.
00:44:22Well, I've got a feeling that this is definitely one that we'll come back to when we open the
00:44:26questions up to the floor a little later on. Moving on to the NHS now, though, which several
00:44:31of you mentioned in your opening pitches, and there is a question here very specific
00:44:36to Preston on the new Royal Preston Hospital, which is due to be built, slightly delayed now
00:44:42due to open in the early to mid 2030s, not the end of the decade as was originally pledged.
00:44:49We know that there's a short list of sites and we know thanks to the, or we know through the
00:44:53South Ribble MP that they are all in South Ribble. And that's what this particular question is about.
00:44:59This question says that the decision to build a new Royal Preston on undeveloped land in South
00:45:03Ribble will result in a far worse NHS experience for the vast majority of Preston's population.
00:45:09Distance and accessibility are key. And they're saying that it's being denied to the people of
00:45:14central Lancashire. So they asked what commitments will each candidate give to
00:45:18fight for a new hospital where people actually live, and which is close to transport networks.
00:45:24So Neil, come to you first of all. Yeah, I think the question is absolutely right. And
00:45:28first and foremost, distance and accessibility are key. That is what's most important. I would
00:45:33much prefer that a new hospital is based here in Preston where people are, but the final location
00:45:39will be important to that. What we need to do is to make sure that people are able to access
00:45:44a hospital. And the most important thing of all is that we get that new hospital. I mentioned
00:45:48previously that all too often, our excellent NHS staff are being overworked and are working in
00:45:54out-of-date and crumbling facilities. So we need to get those new facilities. That is the most
00:45:59important thing. Then we can discuss where exactly it needs to be. James, if I can come to you,
00:46:06the hospital, the choices for the hospital were either to rebuild on the current site in
00:46:11Shower Green or find a completely green field, or the brownfield site, but certainly a different
00:46:17site to the one that's currently occupied. I agree actually with what you've said, Neil,
00:46:22that I think the key here is that transport and accessibility is the absolute important aspect
00:46:28of this decision. However, we're going to be facing in this country a whole series of crumbling
00:46:34hospitals because the previous group with PFI was built about 25 to 30 years ago. That's the
00:46:39private finance initiative. So we're going to be facing, we need a national strategy to ensure
00:46:46that we don't have a whole series of crumbling hospitals going down at the same time. And that's
00:46:52why I think we need to have an integrated system whereby these hospital decisions are made and
00:46:59taking into account all of the local needs of the population, particularly, as Neil has said,
00:47:03transport and accessibility and parking. Mark, if you return as Preston's MP, would you be happy
00:47:10to see Preston's hospital in South Ribble? Well, there's not going to be one hospital,
00:47:14let's be honest about this, this sort of confusion around where the new hospital should be. People
00:47:22talk of this as if it's a replacement for the Royal Preston, or in fact a Chorley hospital,
00:47:27like it's a neither or situation. Actually, it's none of those things. What will happen is once a
00:47:31new site has been chosen, I think the preferred site at the moment is probably in the Dale area,
00:47:38but once a site has been chosen, some services which are obviously overloading Royal Preston
00:47:43and some that are overloading Chorley will be moved and relocated there. And then there'll
00:47:48be a builder for staff and expertise around those sites. So I'd love it if it was all in Preston
00:47:54because it'd be easily accessible for most people. But the idea of redeveloping Shire Green is a
00:47:59non-starter. For a start, what used to be the workhouse on Shire Green, which is now offices,
00:48:07parts of that are listed, so you can't redevelop there. And there isn't the space,
00:48:10there's too much traffic that needs to get in and needs to get out, even with Chorley's
00:48:14development. So you're not going to get a new one in Preston. There will be, in my view,
00:48:21Boris Johnson promised 40 new hospitals and a fraction of them have been built. A lot of it
00:48:26was extensions here, extensions there. Preston is getting a new one. I know it is getting a new one,
00:48:31but it's high in the sky to expect that two huge hospitals, where there's been hundreds of
00:48:36millions of pounds already spent, are suddenly going to be replaced by a brand spanking new
00:48:40hospital somewhere in South Ribble or on the border of Ribble Valley. There will be spreading
00:48:46around of the services, but it's not going to replace Preston, it's not going to replace Chorley,
00:48:50it'll be an add-on. David, to you, if you've got any particular preference for the location of the
00:48:56new Royal Preston? Well, I'd say the hospital. Most of the people going to the hospital have
00:49:00got poor mobility, so it needs to be somewhere that's central, somewhere that's accessible,
00:49:04on bus routes, etc. If it's too far out, a lot of people can't afford to get a taxi, they can't
00:49:08afford to get a bus, so they need to be able to walk or get a lift off a friend. But I think we're
00:49:11missing the point. We're throwing good money after good at the NHS instead of fixing the problems
00:49:16with the NHS. We've got managers managing managers managing managers. How much money are we wasting
00:49:20on this? We're testing pregnancy for pregnancy. It's ludicrous. We're wasting how many millions
00:49:28of pounds to see if men are pregnant when there's people in corridors dying. Michael, your take on
00:49:34the location of the new Royal Preston? Well, in terms of some of the comments, I agree with some
00:49:40in the sense that we need to have a properly funded National Health Service. I think that we
00:49:45probably need what I would call a rebirth of the National Health Service. For too long, when I was
00:49:50growing up, when people heard reform, they thought that that meant that things were going to get
00:49:53better, they were going to improve it. But for the last 40 years, when governments talk about
00:49:56reform, we all know that that means they're going to marketise and sell things off. So we need to
00:50:00go back to that old reform, we need to improve health services, and there needs to be more of a
00:50:03focus on community health around that, expanding GP practices and then matching as triage to then
00:50:10move people into the hospitals. But for the specific question, the hospital needs to stay
00:50:13within present city boundaries, unless it's part of a more integrated National Health Service.
00:50:20And of course, the problem is that all the hospitals have got individual trust rates,
00:50:24so they all act almost like individual businesses within that. So until we fix it, it has to stay
00:50:29within Preston. The long term solution is for a rebirth of the National Health Service with proper
00:50:33investment, both in staff, training and in the services themselves. And finally, Trevor, are you
00:50:39particularly preoccupied with the exact location or are you content that South Ribble's only a
00:50:43stone's throw away and that the trade-off in services is worthwhile? Well, first and foremost,
00:50:49it has got to be accessible. And to put that into context, when it was first suggested that
00:50:56a new hospital was going to be built and it wasn't going to be in Preston, I'll be honest,
00:50:59I was totally against that. For me, I wanted a hospital close to where I lived in Preston.
00:51:06But having used the hospital recently, having gone through treatment and had to go there on
00:51:11a regular basis, first thing is that some of that treatment was in Preston, some of that treatment
00:51:18was in Chorley. So straight away there was an issue there and it wasn't working. Secondly,
00:51:24the first, and this probably answers the question better than else, on the first day I went for my
00:51:30treatment, it was cancer treatment, and I got into the hospital, tried to park, I couldn't park.
00:51:38So eventually then when I actually got up there, the first thing they did is they take the blood
00:51:42pressure, don't they? They take the blood pressure and they say, do you normally have
00:51:46trouble with blood pressure? And I say, well, you know, if you've struggled to park like I have,
00:51:51you've had to park several streets away, you've been running around to try and get in on time.
00:51:56If my blood pressure isn't through the roof now, there really is something wrong with me.
00:52:00So to answer the question, it's really, really important that whatever we have has got to be
00:52:06easy to get to, easy to park, accessible and provide the service we need. There is no easy
00:52:12solution to that, but that's what we need. Now there's a whole range of questions, while we're
00:52:17talking about the NHS, there are a whole range of questions on GPs and particularly the need
00:52:22to retain GPs because of the immense pressures this particular question says so many GPs are
00:52:28actually leaving general practice and on funding in particular, they want an uplift to match 2020-19,
00:52:362020 funding, so basically pre-pandemic funding and increase the share of the NHS pop that GPs
00:52:42get because, according to this questioner, they dish out 90% of the care. Neil, on that particular
00:52:48subject, is that something you've got something to do with? Yeah, absolutely. As I said earlier,
00:52:52something that we really want to do, something that's really important to the Liberal Democrats
00:52:55is to make sure that everyone can get to see a GP within seven days or within 24 hours in
00:53:01emergency, because at the moment, too many people simply cannot do that. And as you rightly say,
00:53:07the GP is our gateway to the NHS. If you cannot get that GP appointment,
00:53:12it doesn't matter how serious you are, you are not going to get the care that you need.
00:53:16And so the Liberal Democrats will be recruiting 8,000 new GPs and that will help you get the
00:53:22care that you need within those seven days, which is so important. Michael, is it about funding for
00:53:26you and the NHS? It's absolutely about funding. Something like 20,000 doctors left the service
00:53:33last year. One in nine nurses are thinking about leaving. It's not just GPs, it's right across the
00:53:39service. And you think about how we spend our money. So since 2012, private health companies
00:53:47in the NHS have made something like £6.7 billion profit. So they're taking profit out of the
00:53:53National Health Service rather than that being reinvested back in. So we need to get the market
00:53:58out of the National Health Service. Delivering a service, right? They're delivering a service by
00:54:02taking profits out of the health care budget. We need to end that. The Labour Party, for example,
00:54:09are talking about addressing this by increasing private provision and multinational corporations
00:54:14coming in and using health care. We need to stop that in that way.
00:54:19So I reckon if the services are tested, are you content with the funding plans that your party
00:54:24have laid out for the NHS? Well, just on the final point about privatising services, we're already
00:54:29planning to nationalise key industries like rail, Royal Mail and water services, just for a start.
00:54:35But in terms of your second question, Paul, what was it? Yes, I was actually coming to Trevor on the
00:54:40Conservative plan. I'll come back to you, Mark, in a sec. Sorry. Trevor, yeah, on the NHS funding
00:54:45plans that the Conservatives have... Absolutely fine, Mark. Not a problem. Always happy to let you speak.
00:54:51Yeah, of course we need more funding, but it's not just... It's not in the manifesto, is it?
00:54:57But it's not just about funding, is it? It's about how we do things as well.
00:55:00In the manifesto that we've put out, yes, there is something put in there to ensure that we have
00:55:08more doctors and more nurses, but also pharmacy first, also diagnostic centres. So yes, there is
00:55:16a lot of work that needs to be done. There's lots more needs put in there, but it's about how we do it
00:55:20as well as the money we put in. And it's important we get both happening. Mark, welcome to you now
00:55:26on Labour's plans in particular. Yeah, on the point Michael made about the use of private companies
00:55:32and private services, when we came into government in 1997, there was a three-year backlog in cataract
00:55:39operations. We got that down to three weeks because we did utilise the private sector
00:55:44in speeding up operations. Otherwise, people would still have been waiting years before
00:55:49they got those operations done. And where we can, we'll use excess capacity in the private sector.
00:55:55That does not mean that we're doing that at the expense of investment, immediate investment,
00:56:00in terms of the National Health Service itself. It's just utilising private services for the
00:56:06benefit of national health patients. The trust that runs the Royal Preston Hospital had to make
00:56:11£39 million of savings last year. They've got to make £58 million this year, and that's not even
00:56:17to break even. That's just to deliver a deficit of £23 million. If all the parties were being
00:56:23honest, wouldn't they say the NHS is bust? No, not at all. I mean, what you call savings,
00:56:29other people call corrupt. It's the hospital that's described it as savings. Well, they do,
00:56:34yeah, but nobody else would. Because the rest of the people in Preston want operations done.
00:56:39Like I said, we have 7.5 million people waiting for operations. Do we want to wait until the NHS
00:56:44has been geared up fully before they get their operations? No, we don't. We'll use the private
00:56:49sector to take up where we need the extra investment, the extra operations done.
00:56:56David, on the subject of money and financing the NHS, is that what it's all about?
00:57:01No, I totally disagree. Again, we're wasting money left, right and centre. Like privatising,
00:57:05one example before is we've got a scanning machine in the hospital and it's privatised,
00:57:11and in three years' time we could have bought that machine, but now we're paying somebody else
00:57:15to buy this machine and then charge us an extortionate rate to do the service what we
00:57:19was doing anyway. It smells like corruption to me. We've got managers managing managers,
00:57:25but the biggest point that I think is we should be, before we get to hospital, we should be
00:57:30concentrating on the health before then. Everybody knows you are what you eat. What you put in your
00:57:35stomach determines how healthy you're going to be. If you put chemicals in there, it'll
00:57:38destroy your gut microbiome. If you destroy your gut microbiome, that's your metabolism
00:57:43and it's your immune system. Chronic metabolic disorders have skyrocketed through the roof,
00:57:49some at 10,000% in two generations. They're putting it down to genetics. Even Carol Vorderman
00:57:54did the maths on that. She couldn't come back with the answers that they wanted. It's impossible for
00:57:58it to be genetic. Health starts in the gut. We need to be educating kids before they get to the
00:58:02hospital system. That's how we save the money. Michael, just finally on this one. To you,
00:58:07is the NHS at risk of being a bottomless pit if you keep buying money into it?
00:58:12It's not that. It's about how we do the resources. We need to put more money in,
00:58:16but we need to do so in a way which brings it back into a proper national health service.
00:58:20As I said earlier on, we need a rebuff, which looks at local services. We need more dentists
00:58:25in Preston. We need more GPs in Preston. We need more OTs and mental health services in the
00:58:29community. They then triage and go to hospitals. We need to learn some lessons from what happens
00:58:34in France and Germany and how they do that. We need a national health service rather than
00:58:38hospitals that compete with each other. The point that Mark raised about private services,
00:58:43the problem when you bring private companies in to the health service is not only do they
00:58:48see the bottom line, they're taking profits out of the public purse, but they also want to do those
00:58:54low-risk, high-volume operations. So, cataract operations, of course, because they can do lots
00:58:59of them and make lots of profit on them. But cancer, they don't want to do because it's
00:59:03expensive and they don't know the outcome. If anything goes wrong, they put it back in the
00:59:07national health service, with the cost included. And therefore, governments then turn around and
00:59:10say, well, the private sector is more efficient. They're keying off the high-volume, easy, easier
00:59:16to do, high-profit operations at the expense of care elsewhere. We need to get the market out of
00:59:22health. Joseph, are you comfortable? Finally to you on this one. Quick point. I agree with a great
00:59:30deal of what's already been said. However, the key problem with any health service is the speed
00:59:36with which the individual person, the patient, gets to see the final decision maker, whoever that
00:59:42person is who makes the final decision as to where their care is going to be. In the national health
00:59:47service, to save money, what has happened is we've devolved those decision-making processes to people
00:59:54further and further down the chain of command, so to speak. Now, that has only led to an increased
01:00:00rate of error, an increased rate of people not getting the full treatment that they need.
01:00:06I'm thrilled that Trevor has had a successful cancer treatment. However, the cancer treatment
01:00:13rates in this country are abysmal in comparison to the rest of Europe, and the reason being because
01:00:19our system works the wrong way round. A national health service, as Michael would like to have,
01:00:26which I would like to see, should change that perspective so that when you are ill,
01:00:32you get to see the person who decides with you what should actually happen.
01:00:38I'm consciously going to give you all plenty of time to raise your questions at the end, so we
01:00:42won't have too many more of these themes that we're going to go through, but just a couple more
01:00:46before we do open it to the floor. A nice simple question, certainly not a simple subject on
01:00:53housing, and this is simply what will each of you do for when the housing emergency, as this
01:00:58questioner describes it, in Preston. David, start with you on that one. Well, we've got a housing
01:01:04emergency, we've got open borders, how can we possibly build houses faster than people are
01:01:08coming over here on boats? That's the only issue, as you say. There's many issues, there's a lack
01:01:15of investment, there's a lack of infrastructure and a lack of investment. The government don't
01:01:20seem to be spending any money, it's just private companies and building housing apartments and
01:01:24housing blocks. There's no affordable housing, there's no social housing. We've had two million
01:01:29people come here in the last few years, two million houses, a lot of houses to build.
01:01:34Trevor, for you on this one, do you agree with the premise of the question that there is a housing
01:01:39emergency in Preston? There certainly is, there's a need there for housing and there's a need there
01:01:44for the right sort of housing in the right sort of places that is affordable. That's a big question
01:01:50in itself because very often they're not affordable and also rents, they're a big issue as well.
01:01:56People being able to afford to live, being able to afford to start a house, building them in the right
01:02:02place and all too often I think that the developers just railroad things through. The planning needs
01:02:10to be looked at, people need to be involved in it, we need to have a bigger say as to where those
01:02:15houses are being built. You've brought affordable housing up, Trevor. There's a city council until
01:02:20recently and the city council has a policy of insisting upon a proportion of affordable housing
01:02:26on each estate in Preston. Very often though developers can make a, they call it a viability
01:02:32argument and that means that they then don't have to provide it. Is that a particular problem
01:02:36from your perspective and should the Conservatives have done something to close that particular
01:02:41avenue to developers? It needs closing, it is fun so I'll actually stand on that one and say yes it
01:02:47needs closing. As a city councillor all too often when a plan of permission has been approved for a
01:02:53housing development and then the housing development comes back to you and says it is no
01:02:59longer affordable, we can't do what we promised to do and then we seem to roll over and say yeah
01:03:05that's okay, it's not okay. Joseph, just to you on this particular one and housing and the
01:03:13concept of it or the premise of there being a housing emergency, is that a distinction you
01:03:17recognise? I think there is a tremendous problem with housing because of the way in which the
01:03:22demographics of the population, the way in which the population structure is changing over
01:03:26the recent number of years and because we have far more households but with fewer people in each
01:03:32household so there's going to be a greater need for individual forms of accommodation to
01:03:37help with that. However, there's a basic problem which is that everybody is in favour of building
01:03:43more houses but not just where they are, they want the houses built somewhere else and we have to
01:03:49have a system that gets round that nimbyism so that we have independent arbitration that allows
01:03:56for houses to be built where they are most suitable, where they can be affordably built
01:04:01and where they can be useful to the community and the society. Michael, just turning to you on the
01:04:07issue of housing, is that something you would agree with, that it's where they're built and
01:04:11the type of housing? So the housing crisis actually has a 14-year history, it went back to an act that
01:04:17Margaret Thatcher brought in as a flagship policy which is called the housing right to buy
01:04:21and what it did was it pushed house prices up, it got rid of council housing, forced people
01:04:25onto the private rented sector, the consequence is that house prices are so high now that young
01:04:31people can't afford to buy or get a mortgage and the rent in the private rented sector is more
01:04:36than a mortgage and people are paying a huge proportion of their salary either in mortgage
01:04:39or in rent, we've got a massive housing crisis. What we really need to do is return to what I
01:04:44would call council house building or local council house building where we had subsidised rent and
01:04:49proper well-built council homes because the other thing that we've done is that there's something
01:04:53called the land and the land premium, as soon as something is designated as house price and the
01:04:58land price goes up, everything goes up on top of it and for developers they hold on to land rather
01:05:03than building the houses that are needed and then what happens is that we have something like we
01:05:07have in Preston, we have a rush of house building in the north of Preston but we don't have schools,
01:05:12we don't have community centres, we don't have shops that are appropriate for those areas and
01:05:16we don't have the facilities so it needs proper planning and planning with proper affordable rent
01:05:21accommodation and we need to get back to a model where renting is not seen to be the lower end but
01:05:26it's the high end of what we do as housing. There seems to be not much of an agreement across the
01:05:31programme but it seems to be the use of facilities in the areas that the houses are being built
01:05:36particularly in northwest Preston, is that one of the main issues or do you see a different
01:05:42aspect of the housing crisis that this questioner is talking about? Absolutely, as a local councillor
01:05:47yeah lack of facilities is a real real problem. The ward that I represent in England Cotham has
01:05:52seen a massive amount of housing being built and then going into the neighbouring area in Preston
01:05:57rural north and for all the thousands of thousands of houses that we've had built we've not had a
01:06:01single new school built, we've not had any new doctor surgeries built, it's causing a real real
01:06:06issue and we need to sort it out but having said that the housing crisis is absolutely real. More
01:06:12and more and more young people are looking likely never to be able to own their own home and it's
01:06:18not right and it's not fair and we need to change it. What we need to do is we need to follow the
01:06:23Lib Dem policy which is to build 380,000 houses every year of which 150,000 of those will be
01:06:30social housing. We also need to give local authorities around the country the freedom
01:06:34to say yes or no on whether to consider right to buy because what Michael said before is absolutely
01:06:39right the housing stock and particularly the social housing stock in this country has been
01:06:44massively diminished over the last 40 years and that is the way that we need to change it so that
01:06:48we can get more and more people onto the market and more and more people to be able to keep their
01:06:53housing by financial responsibility to stop the mortgages going up like we saw under the Liz
01:06:58Trust government and we also need to introduce a fair deal for renters which would mean no no
01:07:03fault evictions and to have the default term for a rental term of three years to give people
01:07:09the security to live safely in their homes. My interest to hear on this,
01:07:13Keir Starmer's made a virtue of planning reform as part of his manifesto that in real terms that
01:07:20means eradicating the nimbyism that Joseph was talking about isn't it and that's some
01:07:24tough messaging for people who don't want homes in their backyard. Well exactly and I'm talking
01:07:29favourably just to give you a flavour of what's in our manifesto on this subject we plan to build
01:07:34150 council and social homes each year to address the crisis, we're going to restore mandatory
01:07:40housing targets which were scrapped by the Conservatives, we're going to build 1.5 million
01:07:46new homes in England over the next five years, we're going to look at the largest increase in
01:07:52social and affordable house building in a generation, we're going to get the renters
01:07:57reform bill abolished to abolish no fault section 21 evictions where people renting can just be
01:08:04chucked out having done nothing wrong I mean fully within the terms of their contract and
01:08:08we're going to introduce a cross-government strategy to end homelessness. One of the things I
01:08:13hate over the 20 odd years that I've been an MP is walking down Fishergate seeing people
01:08:19in shop doorways effectively living in shop doorways or in back streets because the economic
01:08:24conditions over the last 14 years have got that much worse. Everywhere you go now there are people
01:08:31either homeless or begging and we've got food banks now where people never mind can't afford
01:08:36to rent or do you know do an ordinary job, they just can't afford to feed themselves in many cases
01:08:41or the families. This is urgent and it's top priority for a Labour government. Thanks very much
01:08:46indeed Mark, thank you for your thoughts on that. Coming to climate change which seems an inadequate
01:08:54way of addressing it as an addendum to the questions but I'll come to you first on this
01:08:59one David because you have some quite forthright views on the nature and reality of climate change
01:09:06earlier. A questioner has asked what would you do to lessen the impact of climate change
01:09:11and the nature crisis on Preston? You don't even believe in it do you? I'd scrap net zero,
01:09:16I'd totally scrap net zero and then give that money back to the people. We're spending vast
01:09:21amounts of money. Nobody's proven that greenhouse gases are causing the problems.
01:09:27There's huge scientific consensus around climate change. 96% of paid scientists agree that there
01:09:33is climate change, 98.6% of all greenhouse gases is produced by nature and essential to nature,
01:09:4095% of it's water vapour, 3.6% of it's CO2, out of that humans produce 3.2%, 0.041%
01:09:48how much are we paying to stop how much? CO2 is essential for life, every person in this room is
01:09:54made of carbon. Why should we be stopping carbon? It's just ludicrous. Milankovic's cycles dictate
01:10:01the warming and the cooling. You can time your watch by it, you can time the yearly seasons by
01:10:08it. We used to be able to walk to France before the sea levels raised. The hole in the ozone layer
01:10:12is the smallest it's ever been. The extent of the ice at the Antarctic is the biggest it's ever been.
01:10:19The extent of the barrier reef is the greatest it's ever been. So everything we've been told
01:10:23about climate change is ludicrous, it's lies, it's fabricated science. Fabricated science,
01:10:28do you agree with that? And if you don't, tell the ladies and gentlemen why. It's not fabricated
01:10:36science, there is a real climate issue and it needs to be addressed. It needs to be affordable
01:10:43in the way that we're doing it and yeah there's a big issue as to what it costs and how we do it
01:10:48and I accept all of that, but to bury your head in the sand and say that there is no climate crisis,
01:10:56that there isn't warming of the planet and just look at the amount of floods we're getting around,
01:11:02just look at the way that across the whole of the world, it's just ludicrous to say.
01:11:11No, it's just ludicrous to say that there is no crisis. Yes, it needs to be worked on.
01:11:16Collectively, together, everybody and that's easier said than done.
01:11:21And just very briefly, on a city level, what can you do?
01:11:24Well, nothing easily is the answer, but you've got to, you've got to, you've got to,
01:11:31um, electric cars for example, that if you're, if you're going to make that a policy, then you've
01:11:37got to have where it's easy to charge them. That again is not easy. So maybe in the
01:11:42planning bit, that all needs to be built in to the process in which we're doing it.
01:11:48It needs to be built into their policies. Mark, can we ask a point from your perspective where
01:11:54tougher action needs to be taken, action that will, will impact on people's lives quite directly?
01:11:59Yeah, and that's why our policies are aimed at producing these new cleaner technologies.
01:12:04We've got a new green deal to achieve net zero carbon emissions for the UK by 2050.
01:12:10We invest in renewable energy sources and green technologies. We're going to introduce a new
01:12:15Clean Air Act to tackle pollution and improve air quality. Investing an extra 6.6 billion
01:12:22in home energy efficiency improvements. And we're going to promote the use of rail freight and
01:12:27accelerate rail electrification to improve the atmosphere as well. So we've got very ambitious
01:12:33plans. I'm looking forward to it. And with great British energy, it will be coming on stream,
01:12:38hopefully a year or two after we get to government, and we'll hopefully see big steps in the area.
01:12:44Labour's plans aren't of course as ambitious as they were, are they? Your £28 billion a year
01:12:48commitment has evaporated. Well a lot will depend on growth. I mean, £28 billion was a figure that
01:12:53we would have required to do everything that we planned to do. But clearly there are economic
01:12:59limitations. And by the time we see the books, after the general election, probably the economic
01:13:03and financial condition of this country is far worse than what we think it is at the moment.
01:13:09But what we'll do is, as growth picks up, we'll make more choices about investment and look where
01:13:15we can best put the money. The other thing is, whilst we've not committed to any tax rises,
01:13:21I don't think there'll be tax rises. What there will be though, is a reallocation of funding
01:13:26from some departments to others where our priorities do lie. And that will be in health,
01:13:30it'll be in education, it'll be in climate and energy policy. Let me just bring Michael in on
01:13:36this particular one. Michael, the climate crisis, the impact that it has on nature. So I disagree
01:13:43fundamentally with David, but I think the problem with the debate around climate change is that for
01:13:48too long it's made people feel as if it's yet another cost that's been imposed on them, that
01:13:53they're the ones that have been criticised, that they've got to change their behaviour.
01:13:56I also think we need to bring about things through system change rather than individual change in
01:14:00that way. But there's things that we could do around Preston that would make a huge difference.
01:14:04So we've mentioned before the huge number of houses that have been built in the north that
01:14:09are Preston. Not a single one of them was built with solar panels on. Why wasn't every single
01:14:14one of them required to have solar panels on them? And then that would have done two things. That
01:14:19would have brought people's electricity bills down and it would also have started to put those
01:14:22things in place. So if you think about solar power, you think about wind power, you think about
01:14:28wave power, we can become a centre in Preston for the forefront of the new technological
01:14:33developments, which brings jobs into Preston and training for our young people and does both things.
01:14:38So it brings people's bills down and it also allows us to be the forefront of this new development.
01:14:43I'd also make sure that we have grants for things like for damp proofing our homes and for
01:14:50addressing the issues that we've got at home, which again saves people money in that way.
01:14:54Thank you. First of all, I disagree with David over the fact that we do have a climate crisis,
01:15:05but it's not just the climate of the United Kingdom, it's the climate of the entire world.
01:15:10And we have to be realistic that unless it is we work cooperatively with other countries,
01:15:15this is not going to be addressed. Every country will try to make some sort of economic advantage
01:15:20for themselves. And the cost of addressing climate change is such that there's going to be
01:15:26a hit on the economy and we have to accept that. The only way that this can be resolved is if
01:15:31countries agree together to work to confront this problem. And I'm totally in favour of
01:15:38international organisations like the European Union, which has been doing extraordinary work
01:15:43in this area, addressing this issue, because without the leadership of the European Union,
01:15:48frankly, this wouldn't be happening at all.
01:15:51May I just address that point from Joseph there that this requires international collaboration?
01:15:57Yes, absolutely. It does require international collaboration. But I do disagree with one thing
01:16:01you said is that there doesn't have to be a cost to our economy for it. In fact, I would say the
01:16:06opposite. There is a real opportunity for us to move forward with a green industrial revolution
01:16:10here. I mean, for example, the Liberal Democrat manifesto says that we want to have a 10 year
01:16:15home upgrade programme, where we'll be looking to install heat pumps, to install insulation.
01:16:21And in particular, for low income households, we want to do those two things for free.
01:16:25What we also want to do is to have 90% of our energy coming from renewable sources
01:16:29by 2030, through things such as installing rooftop solar across existing properties,
01:16:35as well as new properties that are being built. And all of this, what this means is that we can
01:16:39be the heart of this revolution as it goes forward. But it means that we're creating
01:16:44alongside a greener planet, we're also creating jobs that are clean, that are green, that are
01:16:49stable, that are well paid. And this is exactly what we need for our country. We shouldn't be
01:16:54looking at this as a threat. We should be looking at this as an opportunity, grab it with both hands,
01:16:59make the environment better, and make our cost of living better.
01:17:02Thank you. Thanks to all of you for your thoughts on that issue and all the ones that we've raised
01:17:07so far. The bit I'm sure you've all been waiting for is for us to open up the floor to questions.
01:17:14So I have some able assistants running around with microphones. So if you want to put your hand up,
01:17:19I'll come to somebody. And just a gentleman there Vanessa, just on the end of that row,
01:17:24make it nice and easy for you. If you'd like to stand up and ask your question, if you want to
01:17:28ask it to any particular candidates, or if you'd like to address it to all of them, then away you
01:17:32go. Yeah, my question is specifically to Michael. I've been told when you were independent in
01:17:38Preston, sorry, a councillor in Preston, I've been told you used to work really hard for your
01:17:45local area. You used to turn up regularly on Fridays outside the local mosque to ask people.
01:17:53Have you got a question? I'm sure Michael will promote himself for himself.
01:17:58My question to Michael is, if you do get elected as an MP for Preston, you're going to have to
01:18:03balance not only local issues, but also national and international issues. First of all, would you
01:18:10have a office in central Preston, unlike Mark? And how hard would you work for these people of Preston?
01:18:19Michael, over to you.
01:18:24So when I was a councillor for 10 years, yeah, I did go to the mosque on Friday, but I also used
01:18:29to go to the church on a Sunday, and that was for somebody who is not that religious really, but I
01:18:34used to go to Catholic church one Sunday, I used to go to the Anglican church the next Sunday, and I
01:18:38used to go to the mosque on a Friday. The reason I did that was because when I first got elected, I
01:18:44just assumed that people would come to surgeries and no good came. So I thought the right thing to
01:18:49do is to go to where the people are, and those were community centres where they do. So I'm
01:18:55absolutely committed to engaging with the people in Preston and listening to what the people of
01:18:59Preston have got to say and taking their views on board. So yeah, what I would propose is that
01:19:04we have a city centre office, that people know where their MP is, they can raise issues, and then
01:19:09it's a juggling act, like it is for all MPs, but to be local, in the town, representing people, going to
01:19:15their events, and being at Westminster to vote and take part in the debates that are there.
01:19:18Thank you, Michael. Mark, a couple of times now, the absence of an office in the city centre is being raised.
01:19:23If you'd just like to address that particular one, is that something you would consider doing
01:19:27with another town? Well, I've had a city centre office for the best part of the last 24 years.
01:19:35Well, I'm from Sedgwick Street, and then I moved to Strand Road, and now I'm in another location,
01:19:39but I've had one for 24 years. This myth that they're trying to spread, they haven't got a city centre
01:19:44office, or a city office in the city of Preston. It's just a total myth, it's not true at all.
01:19:49Secondly, yeah, you mentioned mosques. My natural father was a Muslim, my mother's church in England,
01:19:56and my stepfather was Roman Catholic. I was raised a Roman Catholic. I've shown respect to all the
01:20:01religions in this city, and those of non-religion as well, and I plan to do that for the remaining
01:20:07five years, if I'm elected, on July the 4th. But can please people tell the truth, and not just
01:20:14saying things that Michael said, because they're not necessarily true. Is the distinction between
01:20:19a city office and a city centre office, is that a distinction you draw or not? It turned into almost
01:20:24like a drop-in centre, and I've got thousands and thousands of caseworks doing. I do 8,000 caseworks
01:20:31a year. I've also got a job to do in Westminster. I'm also on committees. I've done all of these
01:20:36things, and people dropping in and instructing staff. Everything now is by appointment. It can
01:20:42be done, in many cases, online. Since Covid, it's particularly important that a lot more is done
01:20:47online. So this idea that I'm not accessible. I live in the place. I've lived here for over 30 years.
01:20:55Please don't shout out. If you want to ask a question, put up your hand. Anybody else
01:20:59like to ask a question? Lady just in the front there, in the blue. Vanessa, if you can,
01:21:06you're going to have to rely on some assistance for the assistant.
01:21:13Can you hear me? A question for Sir Mark. There's a new Britain school in the north of England with
01:21:20240 pupils, with bright students on full bursaries. With the introduction of back-on-fees,
01:21:28if Labour wins, these bright pupils will no longer be able to access these facilities. Do you think
01:21:36do you think it's a good policy to have to add back to school fees?
01:21:42Right, well, first of all, I think the fact that many schools can't afford books for children.
01:21:48We've got teachers giving, in some cases, food, but also providing books and paper out of their
01:21:55own wages to some pupils in very poor areas. In many schools now, they're having to bring in
01:22:00breakfast clubs because they haven't got a breakfast before they go to school, and because
01:22:04in Hungary you can't concentrate at school. Ninety-three percent of kids in this country
01:22:10go to a state school. The remainder obviously go to private schools, and I think that those
01:22:17private schools give huge opportunities for the pupils that go to those schools. So I don't see
01:22:23why they should have special benefits from being exempt from VAT on the fees, but in fact that
01:22:29money could be better spent on the poorer section of kids, which is the 93%. So I would want to see
01:22:36brought in, but at the same time what I think is important as well is we look at the impact,
01:22:41which you're predicting, where kids cannot go to a private school because the parents can't afford
01:22:48it. What impact will that have on the state sector? So I think there has to be a proper
01:22:53study done and a review of the whole system before it's fully implemented. I don't think
01:22:57slapping 20% on straight away is a solution to the problem. Anybody else like to come in on that
01:23:03particular one? Yes, you're absolutely right, the impact is what worries me more
01:23:11than anything else. Our education system at the moment is pretty full, and to suddenly have
01:23:19many, many more pupils that could no longer afford to send their children to the private schools
01:23:26and then push them onto the state schools when they can't cope now is going to create a problem.
01:23:32Now I'm somebody that I've never sent my children to private school, it's not something I wanted to do,
01:23:38but there's a choice out there, and at the moment if you're just going to disadvantage
01:23:44a group and say you now can no longer afford to do it, you've got to go into state schools
01:23:49because that's the way it's going to be, I don't see how we can actually cope with what
01:23:56you're suggesting we're pushing. Secondly, on breakfast clubs and things like that, I absolutely
01:24:01agree with that, absolutely right, it's not necessarily something that's new though.
01:24:08I've been in education, it was my career, how many years ago now? 15 years ago we put breakfast
01:24:16clubs into school, so it's not as though it's something new. There is a need, it does make a
01:24:21difference, and funding actually helps to do that, pupil premium was part of what was used to
01:24:27do that. It is important, it does make a difference, it's not necessarily new. Trevor, thank you very
01:24:32much indeed. There were a few questions on education submitted, while we're on education
01:24:36anybody got a specific education question that you'd like to to ask about? Very enthusiastic
01:24:41gentleman there. If I was a 16 or if I'm an 18 year old and I
01:24:51interested in engineering, is it right that my best option might be working to create armaments
01:24:57in British aerospace instead of building wind turbines and heat pumps, and is there anything
01:25:02a local MP could do to influence the directions and options for young people to get involved
01:25:07in something positive? That's a great question indeed, that's one for each of you. David, start with you on that one.
01:25:14Yeah, well today I had to go to do a job today, I work in the real world in a real job,
01:25:20I always have done, and I've been to see a fabricator and a sheet metal worker today, and he was on the
01:25:24subject of apprentices, and the reason he can't take an apprentice on, because if he wants to put
01:25:28him on the guillotine, it's going to cost £2,000 extra on the insurance. If he wants to put him on the
01:25:32press, he's got to wait till he or she is 18 years old. So there's so many restrictions and red tape
01:25:38that these people don't want to employ apprentices, and these engineers that have
01:25:42got so much knowledge and so many skills, and they're dying off and they're being
01:25:47dwindled away, and nobody's picking them up because of restrictions and cost.
01:25:52Joseph, any particular thoughts? I don't want to come to people unnecessarily,
01:25:56but by all means pass on these questions, unless they've been directed to you specifically.
01:26:01So apropos of the two questions, first of all I'd like to thank the lady for her question,
01:26:07and referring to Sir Mark, and I think that showed respect and I'm delighted that you did that,
01:26:12thank you very much. With response to your particular question, I think you're absolutely
01:26:18right. The private school system incorporates a great deal more than simply rich kids,
01:26:25there are a whole group of people from other backgrounds as well who have benefited from the
01:26:30excellent education that Britain provides in the private school system. If we are going to change
01:26:35it, we need to change it to something that continues to have the same level of excellence,
01:26:41and I think this is something that Britain can spread across the world. We have tremendous
01:26:48soft power across the world because of the education system, not just from schools but
01:26:53also from universities. Assault on these institutions is going to undermine this
01:26:58country very significantly. With regard to the gentleman and your question about working in the
01:27:03AA systems versus working elsewhere, one of the tragedies of Brexit is that there are two basic
01:27:11industries that are doing well, the financial services industry and the arms industry, and
01:27:17Britain is the second largest arms exporter in the world after the United States.
01:27:25Britain is increasingly relying on arms exports and that's because our economy is completely
01:27:34changed from what it was maybe 10 to 15 years ago, and Brexit has accelerated that enormously.
01:27:40So the question that you've asked is a really important question about where,
01:27:46particularly the manufacturing end of our economy is going. My suggestion to you, sir,
01:27:51is that going back into the European Union will do a great deal to resolve that problem.
01:27:56Mark, if you could just answer Jason's point about a tragedy that we've got a strong
01:28:00arms industry, is that a sentiment that you share?
01:28:03No, not really, because when we see what's going on in Ukraine with the Russian invasion,
01:28:10I do think that it's essential that we do have our own capabilities in terms of
01:28:16creating sophisticated and modern weaponry to defend the people of this country,
01:28:20because I think the first duty of any government is the survival of its population and that can
01:28:26very often depend on the strength of its defences. Now obviously we're in military alliances and
01:28:31we're in international alliances as well, and therefore what we've got in this area,
01:28:38particularly in central Lancashire, are very high skilled areas that, by the way,
01:28:44many of these military technologies do spin off into civilian applications as well and do a great
01:28:49deal to develop civil applications, things that you use around the house, things that are used
01:28:55more generally in offices. So there's huge technology that we can all benefit from,
01:29:00export, and bring wealth to the country. And obviously I think it's important,
01:29:05beyond ourselves, to partners who we trust and we use responsibly, principally allies,
01:29:12but also I do think it's important when we could be at a war, a third world war, anytime soon,
01:29:17the way things are developing, not only in Russia and Ukraine, but in the Middle East as well,
01:29:22that we do make sure that we're stronger as a nation and that we can have all the skills that
01:29:27are necessary. And going back to 16 and 17 year olds, one of the things that we are bringing in
01:29:32again is the educational maintenance allowance. We're also making it, which was available
01:29:37previously until the Tories took it away, for 16 and 17 year olds. We're also, apart from lowering
01:29:43the voting age to 16, we do plan to make sure the minimum wage is equal for all ages up until,
01:29:52I think it's 21 now. So all of that grading that went on with the minimum wage,
01:29:57the extra rights for 16 and 17 year olds, and the educational maintenance allowance,
01:30:02we think that it's important that young people have a future, whether it's in defence technology
01:30:09or any other technology, hopefully environmental technologies, which are the future as well,
01:30:15then that is the sort of Britain we want for young people. Michael, let me bring you in,
01:30:19if I'm reading you right, you've got something to say? Yeah, just a couple of things. So
01:30:23Mark talked about bringing voting age down to 16, which I fully support, it was an SNP
01:30:27idea in the first instance in Scotland, but for me it was in favour of some SNP motions.
01:30:36In terms of 16 and 17 year olds, there's a number of questions I think that arise from that. First
01:30:43of all, Mark's absolutely right, we're in an incredibly dangerous position, it's not just
01:30:49in Ukraine and the Middle East, but there's also over the weekend, America were sending
01:30:54nuclear aircraft over the Pacific as they ramp up their potential war with China. We're in a
01:30:59really terrible place and we need more talking, more peace, rather than more war. So back to the
01:31:06question, what I think we need to do is think about the routes that 16 year olds have. Those
01:31:11routes might be through university, but one of the great barriers for students going through
01:31:15university from somebody who works in the university sector is £9,700 fees. I went to
01:31:21university a long, long time ago, I came out of university with no debt and I got a grant to go
01:31:26because I was one of five children. My daughters came out of university with £60,000 worth of debt,
01:31:31we cannot saddle our young people with those level of debt to go to university. So that's a barrier,
01:31:37but really people that want to do engineering should have access through universities where
01:31:41they can do that. And the specific question about British Aerospace, those are highly skilled jobs
01:31:47and highly skilled workers. There is wonderful things that they could be doing in terms of
01:31:52technology that would bring enhancement to society as a whole. They need to keep their jobs, we need
01:31:58more jobs like that, but just not in the arms industry. We can be in other parts of the economy
01:32:03and we can be at the forefront of those types of jobs that are for human betterment rather than for
01:32:09war. Neil, you're from Dismantling the Arms Industry. I don't know about dismantling the arms industry, but we do
01:32:18need to recognise that, while I can understand the point, you might see it as a tragedy that
01:32:22the arms industry is as strong as this country, particularly around Preston where we've got the AE,
01:32:27and incidentally we've got manufacturers not too far away that also manufacture civilian aircraft,
01:32:31which again is really highly skilled engineering. What we need to do is recognise that
01:32:36these are strengths that we have in the area, industrial strengths and a skill base that we can
01:32:40work on. This is exactly why we've got a real opportunity in Preston to be able to build on
01:32:45that green economy that we really want. We want to be building those wind turbines, we want to be
01:32:49building those solar panels. There is so much we can be getting young people to do, which comes
01:32:54back to how we actually introduce them to the sciences, to engineering when they're younger.
01:32:59We need to focus more on the STEM subjects while they're at school and then when they get a little
01:33:03bit older, when they're 16 or 17, when we also want to give them the votes. We need to be able to
01:33:08get them into apprenticeships, which will teach them the skills that they need for life going
01:33:13forwards, to get them into these new industries that we want to create, to giving them good, clean,
01:33:18stable, well-paid jobs that they can have for life, that will bring up the standard of our area like
01:33:23we want them to do. And that's what we need to be doing for our young people, to give them the future.
01:33:28Shall I go and take a look at that? Do you want to have a say on this one? Would it be remiss of me not to come to you?
01:33:32Yes, skills is critical, but they're most important. And if we could provide those
01:33:38skills through industry, in and around Preston, including British Airways, that provide valuable
01:33:43skills, it's absolutely important that we do that. Apprenticeships, very, very important, that we give
01:33:50a range of opportunities for our youngsters, a range of skills that we teach them, that they
01:33:56can work on and develop and build as time goes on. It's a combination of things and it is absolutely
01:34:01important that we do. Unless anybody's going to tell me otherwise, I think we've got about 15,
01:34:06maybe 20 minutes left for questions. So if we can rattle through the answers, if you want to
01:34:10ask a specific question of a specific person, I'll just put it to that person from now on. So unless
01:34:14you actually say that you want the entire panel to be asked, we'll just go for one specific person.
01:34:20Maybe right over in the far corner with somebody helpfully standing by with a microphone right next
01:34:26It's to Mike. What are you going to do about the potholes? I mean, seriously.
01:34:37Well, certainly I wouldn't mimic Rishi Sunlak when he said he's going to scrap HS2 north of Birmingham
01:34:45in order to deal with the potholes, because I was very much in favour of HS2 north of Birmingham
01:34:51through to Manchester, and obviously with a strong rail link to Preston. But really, I mean,
01:34:58this is what we're going to do, and you know, it's in our manifesto, is put more money into
01:35:03local government. The county council is responsible for potholes because county councils are responsible
01:35:10for highways projects. And if we can get more money into the county council, as well as the
01:35:14city or the district council here in Preston, then we can do a lot more for public services.
01:35:20And I would list that along with a long list of other things that local government really got to
01:35:24get to grips with, because it's really damaging not just people's cars, but people's feeling of
01:35:29worth in the way that the city is deteriorating around us. That's why we need to get that and
01:35:35many other things sorted. More money for local government in the light of the manifesto.
01:35:41Coming down Blackpool Lane, it is absolutely just nearly rounded out. Honestly, I was struggling
01:35:47last night again, you know, when he's been coming from the gym, you know, really,
01:35:52there should be something done here and the LCC to address this.
01:36:01There's been two or three decades of neglect, and we've just been chucking tarmac in holes,
01:36:05which is not fixing a pothole. They've not cut the lines, they've not pre-treated it,
01:36:09they've just, they should have a designated team and quality checkers checking them potholes
01:36:14afterwards, not just filling it with tarmac and hoping for the best to appease the citizens just
01:36:17before it's aborting time. Anybody else on potholes, dare I ask? Yeah, I'm happy to add
01:36:25with that. In our manifesto, we put billions in there to actually help to do this. It is,
01:36:31it does need to be directed to the right place. You're absolutely right,
01:36:35the County Council, there is money going in, but we've got to make sure it actually
01:36:40just does the job that it's supposed to do.
01:36:45Government's been making cuts right across all our public services for years and years and years,
01:36:49and then you come to an election and they're promising buildings to fix potholes. This isn't,
01:36:54you know, we've had 14 years of severe cuts to services, local government is on its knees,
01:37:00the city is struggling, the NHS is struggling, education services are struggling,
01:37:04universities are on point of bankruptcy. That's 14 years of Tory legacy.
01:37:08And the specific issue of potholes is a metaphor for the degradation of all their services. Of
01:37:18course we need to fix potholes, but we need to fix our services. And after 14 years,
01:37:2414 years of Tories making the cuts, you know, promising pie in the sky tomorrow doesn't do it
01:37:29worse. We need to go to a pandemic crisis. May I ask if the ultimate possible is to try and
01:37:34address the pothole problem? I mean, at the end of the day, the potholes need to be dealt with.
01:37:39But you're here today on behalf of the Conservative Party, who has been in power,
01:37:46and you're telling us now that you're going to spend all of this money on potholes.
01:37:49Why have they got this position in the first place? And more to the point, we've had a
01:37:53Conservative run council whose responsibility is looking after the highways for the last
01:37:57five years now, is it? And then you've had the Lib Dems putting forward proposals at the council
01:38:03level, saying that we want to be putting in an extra four and a half million pounds every year
01:38:07to deal with the potholes, because you're right, and what you say as well,
01:38:10is just slapping a bit of bitumen on top and hoping for the best is not going to deal with it.
01:38:14Because what happens is the next time it rains, the next time you get a frost,
01:38:17it comes back up again, and it pulls up more of the surface of the road underneath.
01:38:21And having done this for the last four or five years now, it's no wonder the road is in a state,
01:38:25because you've just got a situation where it's getting worse and worse and worse,
01:38:29and it's snowballing. So what we need to do is actually get the money from central government,
01:38:33going to the highways authority, to actually deal with it properly, once and for all.
01:38:38Joseph, potholes, I don't know if you want to...
01:38:41Well, I think Neil has actually touched on something really important, which is that it's
01:38:46over the past four to five years that all of these problems, not just potholes, have really,
01:38:52really accelerated. We all assume it's 14 years of Tory mismanagement, that's the standard line.
01:38:58But in fact, if you look at the economy, it has crashed most particularly since Brexit.
01:39:03And until we address that core basic issue, all other things are going to be secondary,
01:39:10are not going to be able to work through. There is not a magic money tree. We can't just spend
01:39:16x endless billions that we don't have. We must address the basic problems in the economy.
01:39:22But the second step is punching loads of money.
01:39:25At the risk of setting a precedent for waving, the gentleman at the back,
01:39:28right at the back there, from the back row.
01:39:37We've talked a lot about local issues, and that is quite right. But 10% of the world's population
01:39:44go to bed hungry every night. What, if you were elected, would you do about putting an end to the
01:39:53hunger crisis locally here in Preston, nationally, but also globally?
01:40:0430 seconds each on this one. I know it's an inadequate amount of time to address
01:40:07such a serious issue, but the global hunger crisis. Travis, start with you.
01:40:13I totally accept what you're saying that there is a hunger crisis there. And we need to address it.
01:40:20Certainly, it's not easy. I've got no magic answers for it, if I'm being honest. But it's
01:40:27about working together on it and making sure that we get the food to the right people at the right
01:40:31time. We produce better, and we get it moving around. The cost of living has been one of the
01:40:37biggest problems that we've had on that. And in order to do that, the economy has got to be better.
01:40:43Why not?
01:40:45Well, somebody's just said there's not enough money. And how can we deal with poverty? So
01:40:49whether it's global poverty, whether it's poverty locally, let me just give you one statistic.
01:40:54Since 2010, it's estimated that the Treasury has lost £500 billion to offshore tax evasion and
01:41:01avoidance schemes. And in that time, in the last five years, HMIRC has not issued a single fine
01:41:08to anybody initiating or taking part in those schemes. £500 billion. Think of how many children
01:41:15around the world we could feed. Think of how many children in Preston we could feed. We've
01:41:19just got our hands on some of the money that the fabulously wealthy scurry off into the biggest
01:41:23tax havens.
01:41:24Joseph, global hunger.
01:41:28So I agree with much of what has been said. I think global hunger is a real issue and requires
01:41:34a global international perspective. We cannot do this alone. We need to have the cooperation of
01:41:39other countries. It is also true, what Michael has just said, that HMIRC has not been pursuing
01:41:46taxes that we need to draw in, primarily because one of the principal sources of tax in this
01:41:52country is through financial services. And financial services is important to the economy
01:41:59here because of what? Because of the thing that I've been talking about all evening, which is
01:42:05Brexit. Until we address that issue, we will be reluctant increasingly on financial services and
01:42:10the arms industry. We don't go after these people, primarily because we cannot disrupt
01:42:18the way in which those financial services work. A lot of all the cash money in the world,
01:42:23essentially, goes to landers and offshore accounts and other kinds of entities.
01:42:28I have to put you on the note, David, with global hunger crisis.
01:42:32I think it's more of an issue on farming again because of the net zero rubbish.
01:42:36We've got farmers that have been pushed out of the job. We've got farmers that have been
01:42:40bought out of the job, encouraged to give up the farms and sell the farms.
01:42:45One of the main important things for a country to be economically viable is to be self-sufficient.
01:42:51If we're not self-sufficient in growing our own food and we're having to source it from other
01:42:54countries, then they're having to sell their food to us and then there's a shortage.
01:43:00The fact that we only produce 50% of our own food just before we're about to go into a major
01:43:05global conflict, that should worry people. No farms, no food.
01:43:11I think the major cause of it is, certainly for global hunger, not so much hunger in this country,
01:43:17is climate change. Climate change, believe it or not, is causing wars. It's getting migration.
01:43:22There's migration, people are migrating because of the warm snow that they don't want.
01:43:27The crops don't grow because temperature's changed or humidity's changed.
01:43:32It's causing millions of people to move from their natural habitat across borders, which again is causing conflict.
01:43:38And only when we can really start to see big differences in climate change,
01:43:43sorry, true changes in what climate change has speeded up because the world is still warming,
01:43:51then we'll start to see stable communities that can grow food and look after themselves in the way that they used to in the past.
01:43:58Mark, thank you, thank you. I'll just put Bill and Dean right into the streets.
01:44:07I'm going to go ahead and start this question. I've got questions to Mark. In 2003, you voted for war in Iraq.
01:44:16You disregarded the view of the United States of America party. You disregarded the details of the millions that marched against the war in Iraq.
01:44:27It caused the death of one million Iraqis. You've also now shown your loss and love for war by not voting for a ceasefire in Gaza.
01:44:40Can you tell me, just ballpark, the numbers of Muslim deaths that have been caused by your voting for in Parliament.
01:44:49Just ballpark. And my question to the other members there.
01:44:54Will you also be war mongers like our current MP?
01:45:00I think we might have to leave that one hanging in the back, Mark, and start very directly. The accusation is war mongering.
01:45:06Look, this has been a long, long running issue, but obviously I know it's not time.
01:45:14In 2003, it was clear that chemical weapons were being used against the Kurds in Iraq.
01:45:20There were lots of new MPs.
01:45:26I don't want to put you on the spot.
01:45:30There were lots of new MPs. We went to the war on potential.
01:45:34Some people are answering the questions.
01:45:36Sorry, but I don't know.
01:45:38Give him the microphone, please.
01:45:40Let Mark answer this one.
01:45:42It's a serious accusation that's been made. It needs to be heard.
01:45:46I think you'll find that most people have accepted what I've done and the way that I've voted.
01:45:54At the time, all the opinion polls, the only information available at the time, supported that action.
01:46:00It wasn't just me. There was a majority in Parliament.
01:46:04People blamed Tony Blair. That was the first ever time that we've gone into action for a war that required a vote in Parliament.
01:46:11I didn't buy that decision today.
01:46:15We could have gone into Syria. We didn't go into Syria.
01:46:17I voted against going into Syria when other people were saying that we should be active in Syria.
01:46:23As a politician, you take these decisions and you carry them for the rest of your life.
01:46:27I have a conscience. I sleep at night.
01:46:31I don't think that over the period that I've been a Member of Parliament for this city, I've done anything which I totally regret.
01:46:37At the time, the decisions that I've made, I felt alright.
01:46:41I'll defend my decisions against anybody.
01:46:43But in the 30 seconds or 10 seconds, whatever I've got left at the moment,
01:46:47you're making a very nice point.
01:46:49It's a nice grandstanding in front of the cameras in the audience that is mindful.
01:46:53But that's not going to solve the problems in this country.
01:46:55Maybe it's time for two more.
01:46:57Two more and then we'll stand here in front of one teacher.
01:47:04Oh, yes.
01:47:06Do you want to put your hands up in the audience?
01:47:10Yeah, so just touching back on education quickly.
01:47:14We're in a university but I'm not in a widely participation university.
01:47:18Which means that it's universities that are providing an opportunity to get into education
01:47:22for people that wouldn't normally get it because often they can't afford something.
01:47:26Yet, the mainstream side has not gone up.
01:47:30Even though inflation has gone up and the cost of living has gone up.
01:47:34My question is to all panel members.
01:47:36What are you going to do to support the maintenance or increase it?
01:47:40Or are you going to replace it with a maintenance grant?
01:47:44Really, really quickly, do you think that's the right thing?
01:47:46Personally, I would say education is for everybody.
01:47:50There's a lot of young men out there that have been pushed into education
01:47:52and they're not suitable.
01:47:54They don't want to be in there.
01:47:56And then they're dropping out of school or getting thrown out.
01:47:58It's not an apprenticeship scheme.
01:48:00Neil?
01:48:02A very short answer is, in our manifesto,
01:48:06we will be reinstating the maintenance grant for students.
01:48:10If I can also just answer the previous question,
01:48:12everyone else got to.
01:48:14The Liberal Democrats have got a national food strategy
01:48:16which would deal with food security and food prices.
01:48:18It's helping make sure that people in this country can afford food
01:48:22and can get healthy food.
01:48:24In terms of the international situation,
01:48:27we will restore our 0.7% of GDP
01:48:29in set-up laws
01:48:31which not only will help feed people
01:48:33but will also increase our soft power,
01:48:35increase our ability to get green technologies around the world,
01:48:37but will also open the back of economic markets
01:48:39for our countries in this country.
01:48:41Can I just finish there?
01:48:43As we live in a meritocracy
01:48:45and we're not finding the best talent in these fields,
01:48:47we should be testing
01:48:49and then everybody who's getting high results
01:48:51in certain subjects and areas,
01:48:53they should be put through scholarships, means testing
01:48:55and if you can't afford it,
01:48:57you should be supported.
01:48:59Is that the only big piece of student maintenance?
01:49:01I certainly would argue
01:49:03for anything that provides
01:49:05access for all in education
01:49:07is absolutely important
01:49:09but alongside the apprenticeships as well
01:49:11and making sure that they provide the right skills
01:49:13for the right people.
01:49:15Thank you very much.
01:49:17As I said earlier, we're going to bring back
01:49:19the educational maintenance allowance
01:49:21but we're also going to have a review
01:49:24and we're going to look at increasing those
01:49:26to make higher education more accessible for everyone.
01:49:28We're also going to increase support
01:49:30and funding for further educational colleges
01:49:32and vocational training
01:49:34making sure they're properly equipped
01:49:36to provide skills that are in demand
01:49:38in the job market.
01:49:40Thank you very much.
01:49:42As I said earlier on,
01:49:44we need to make sure that going to education
01:49:46is a right, it doesn't come with
01:49:48educational fees, you pay that back
01:49:50once you're on due licence with taxation
01:49:52and you need a proper grant to support you
01:49:54in your time at university.
01:49:56The marketisation of higher education
01:49:58is like a disaster situation
01:50:00where we now have several universities
01:50:02on the point of bankruptcy
01:50:04because of the way in which fees
01:50:06are marked on the floor.
01:50:08So that's a disaster and I also think
01:50:10the notion that everybody wants to go to university
01:50:12isn't accurate as well.
01:50:14You need to make sure there's proper apprentices
01:50:16with good skills and people have a choice
01:50:18whether they want to go down trade routes
01:50:20but those things can become effective pieces
01:50:22for people who can't make a huge living.
01:50:26I agree almost totally
01:50:28with what Matthew's just said.
01:50:30I think that's absolutely right.
01:50:32I think the university system in this country
01:50:34is one of the stars of our economy
01:50:36as much as anything else.
01:50:38We need to support it and that's where our investment
01:50:40needs to be going and if that means maintenance
01:50:42then that's what we need to be doing.
01:50:50Thank you.
01:51:10Good evening everybody.
01:51:12There's very little campaigning
01:51:14or understanding of
01:51:16well, very little if any
01:51:18campaigning or understanding of
01:51:20anti-Palestinian racism. If elected,
01:51:22would you correct that?
01:51:28I would hope that any form of
01:51:30racism would be a priority
01:51:32for the incoming government. We need to oppose it
01:51:34full stop.
01:51:36Michael? I'm against all forms of racism
01:51:38but I think with regards to the Palestinian issue
01:51:40things like denial of the NACPR
01:51:42should be considered to be racism.
01:51:44I think there's a specific form of anti-Palestinian racism
01:51:46that's what came out of campaigning
01:51:48to get that recognition.
01:51:52Well, I would agree
01:51:54with that and I think
01:51:56denial of the NACPR should be treated like
01:51:58an anti-holocaust
01:52:00force.
01:52:02So yeah, all forms of racism are
01:52:04always opposed. All forms
01:52:06of religious discrimination as well
01:52:08and I'll continue to do that
01:52:10by giving up the 24 years
01:52:12I've been the MP for this city. Thank you.
01:52:14Charlie? I oppose
01:52:16all forms of racism
01:52:18without question.
01:52:20Great. Daniel?
01:52:22Absolutely oppose all forms of racism.
01:52:24What the Liberal Democrats have got in their manifesto
01:52:26is that we want to set a specific
01:52:28condition to work with communities around the country
01:52:30in all parts of the country
01:52:32regardless of place,
01:52:34religion, what have you.
01:52:36To deal with issues of racism
01:52:38and that's what we want to do.
01:52:40That's what I say.
01:52:42Yeah, I oppose all forms of racism
01:52:44as well but I think part of the problem is we're
01:52:46labelling everything and creating separate groups
01:52:48and division. Until we can just start calling people
01:52:50people, then I don't think we're going to get
01:52:52anywhere. We're not going to go forward.
01:52:54There's one killer
01:52:56question that somebody submitted that is the one
01:52:58that I want to end on because it's a nice partnership
01:53:00to our candidates here and it
01:53:02bursts the journalists' bubble and you think
01:53:04the next question is absolutely
01:53:06brilliant. Right now it feels like I have to pick
01:53:08the least bad option out of all parties
01:53:10so why should I
01:53:12be excited about voting
01:53:14for you? Ten seconds.
01:53:16Well, first of all, you're absolutely
01:53:18right. This is not how democracy should work.
01:53:20The Liberal Democrats would reform the system
01:53:22so that you don't have to vote for the least worst option.
01:53:24You can vote however you want to.
01:53:26Reform the system and get rid of first-class abolishment.
01:53:28Thank you.
01:53:30I agree with you. Reform the system.
01:53:32Proportionate representation is required
01:53:34and in this particular election
01:53:36we'll be sending a cheer message to Joe Simon
01:53:38about where the future of the country is going.
01:53:40Thank you.
01:53:42First-class support system when we're voting.
01:53:44Definitely.
01:53:46We need a system where
01:53:48you've got respect and everybody
01:53:50understands each other and
01:53:52is prepared to be honest.
01:53:54Michael.
01:53:56I think the three main parties are more or less the same.
01:53:58They follow the same policies but I'm also
01:54:00in a position to stand up and speak up for people
01:54:02and replace them and
01:54:04in five years' time after that I'll be 67
01:54:06and I'll be in that decadent age already
01:54:08working somewhere else. I'm not a career politician.
01:54:10I've known things, I've been here forever.
01:54:12Mark Simon, thank you.
01:54:14I think when people vote, they don't just vote
01:54:16on one policy, they vote on a package.
01:54:18And this compiles this portfolio of packages.
01:54:20Some parts of the package you might not like,
01:54:22some parts of it you do like.
01:54:24Personalities come in and start meeting as a committee
01:54:26and then run for MPs.
01:54:28But I think on the whole, you vote for the package
01:54:30and you get that package
01:54:32as a whole or you don't.
01:54:34So try and pick out one issue,
01:54:36it shouldn't be a single issue,
01:54:38it should be about the whole package
01:54:40and what's an offer.
01:54:42Thank you very much.
01:54:44I'd like to thank our panellists.
01:54:46We have David Brooks,
01:54:48Neil Dalby, Shada Haas, Mark Hendry,
01:54:50Michael Adelaide and Joseph Olianka
01:54:52as well. Thank you all for
01:54:54attending the party this evening.
01:54:56I'd like to thank you as well for being here.
01:54:58Thank you for coming out on a Monday night.
01:55:00If you've got any questions, I'll be listening to the answers
01:55:02as well. Thanks a lot.