#budget2024 #tax #imf #pmshehbazsharif #inflation #pakistaneconomy #imranhan #pti #PPP #pmln #sawalyehhai #mariamemon
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Maria Memon
Guests:
- Shahbaz Rana (Economist Analyst)
- Syed Mehtab Haider Kazmi (Economist Analyst)
- Sanaullah Khan (Economist Analyst)
- Nayyar Hussain Bukhari PPP
Budget 2024-25 - Maria Memon's Detail Analysis
"Bani PTI Nay Jo Muzakrat ki Baat Ki Usay..."Nayyar Hussain Bukhari's Huge Statement
Puray Mulk Ka Bojh Tankhwa Daar Tabqa Par kiyu? Sana Ullah Khan's Analysis
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Maria Memon
Guests:
- Shahbaz Rana (Economist Analyst)
- Syed Mehtab Haider Kazmi (Economist Analyst)
- Sanaullah Khan (Economist Analyst)
- Nayyar Hussain Bukhari PPP
Budget 2024-25 - Maria Memon's Detail Analysis
"Bani PTI Nay Jo Muzakrat ki Baat Ki Usay..."Nayyar Hussain Bukhari's Huge Statement
Puray Mulk Ka Bojh Tankhwa Daar Tabqa Par kiyu? Sana Ullah Khan's Analysis
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
Category
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NewsTranscript
00:00Assalam-o-Alaikum, I am Maria Meeman and today's top stories is that the tax burden is being
00:17lifted by the taxpayers.
00:18We will talk about this in the first part of the program and we will take a close look
00:23at the budget.
00:24After that, where is the People's Party standing?
00:26We will talk about this in the second part of the program.
00:33When will the student union be established in Pakistan?
00:36We have seen that a student from Balochistan has become the president of the Oxford Union
00:41but in Pakistan, for the past 40 years, students are not allowed to form student unions.
00:46We will talk about this in the second part of the program.
00:51We will talk about this in the second part of the program.
00:58We will start.
00:59The budget has been presented.
01:00We were told that this time unfair taxation of the salary class will not be done.
01:04It was said that those classes who do not pay taxes will be brought into the tax net.
01:10But unfortunately, we have seen that those people who pay taxes first, they have been
01:15burdened with more taxes.
01:17We will show you a quick glance at who is actually paying taxes in this country and
01:21what is the reason behind it.
01:22The salary class, we will show you the last year's figure.
01:25They paid a tax of Rs. 264 billion in 2022-23.
01:30And in comparison, real estate paid only Rs. 8 billion.
01:34Zaree Shobha, Pakistan is a Zaree country.
01:37How much tax did they pay in the last year?
01:39Only Rs. 8 billion.
01:42Retailers and exporters combined to pay a total tax of only Rs. 175 billion.
01:49So, the salary class in that country is paying a higher tax than all of them.
01:54This is the reality of this country.
01:56Now that the budget has come, we thought that this is a very difficult time for the country.
02:00There will be aggressive taxation.
02:02So, how are the taxes imposed?
02:04We will teach you this in a simple language.
02:06The salary class is still taxed at least 5% and maximum 35%.
02:12And the additional burden on the salary class is of Rs. 75 billion.
02:19That is, those who are already paying taxes, pay more taxes and break their back.
02:23How much tax is being imposed on real estate?
02:265% excise duty has been imposed.
02:29How much tax is being imposed on traders?
02:31Look at this again carefully.
02:33How much tax does the trader class pay in this country?
02:35Only 1% to 2.25% of their income is taxed.
02:40No new tax has been imposed on agriculture.
02:44That is, the salary class will pay tax in this country.
02:51So, who is in benefit and who is in loss as a result of this budget?
02:55Government employees are in great benefit.
02:57Salary has increased by 25%.
02:59Pensioners have increased their salary by 15%.
03:02Those who are in income are in great benefit.
03:04Traders have been taxed like peanuts.
03:07They are in great benefit and will be very happy.
03:09Those who have a vote bank have been favoured.
03:12Who is in loss?
03:13Private employees who take salary because their tax slabs have been increased.
03:18It has been made so aggressive that their back has broken.
03:22Now, those who earn more than Rs. 50,000 will have to pay taxes.
03:25So, the common man and the salary class will bear more tax burden.
03:31Do you know that those who make the budget also get compensated?
03:44Mr. Salim Jagda told us about the compensation.
03:49There are 500 people in the finance department.
03:5210-15 of them work on the budget.
03:54The entire assembly, finance, P&D, establishment division and the PM and CM offices work on the budget.
04:08Out of 500 people, 5,000 people work on the budget.
04:135,000 people get 3 months' salary.
04:18Those who make the budget also get 3 months' extra salary.
04:23Everyone has made such rules to benefit themselves.
04:27What about the political class?
04:30When there is a government, there is a different language.
04:32When there is an opposition, there is a different language.
04:34This is the PM, this is Bilawal Bhutto, this is Mariam Nawaz Sahiba
04:38who is not only saying that these taxes are a great budget.
04:41In fact, they are saying that they are going to make reforms.
04:43When a poor man was taxed, how much did he suffer in the past?
04:51What did he say in the past?
04:53Where does the money go?
04:55How is the salary tax done unfairly?
04:57Let's hear from him.
04:59People are being forced to pay taxes on IMF dictation.
05:03They have made the people of this country scream.
05:06When a person is taxed, he gets less salary.
05:09We are collecting money from those people who are going to pay taxes first.
05:13You have imposed taxes on people who make 50,000.
05:16People who are already facing double-digit inflation.
05:19How much increase will there be in the salary?
05:21The way you have left the common man, the government employees, without an heir.
05:27This budget has made the people of the working class scream.
05:30You have taken the tax slab to 35%.
05:32You have increased the tax from 25% to 35%.
05:36We have targeted the people with 50,000 salary and income.
05:40This budget has ruined the lives of the people.
05:43No class is living a peaceful life today.
05:47Who are the effects of politics?
05:51You, us and the people who are already in the tax net.
05:54We have been burdened even more in the first part of the program.
05:57Mr. Sanaullah Khan is with us.
05:59He is an expert in economic matters.
06:01He was also present at the press briefing yesterday.
06:05He asked a very tough question.
06:07We did not get a satisfactory answer.
06:09Mr. Mehtab Haider is also an expert in economic matters.
06:12Mr. Shahbaz Rana was also present at the press conference yesterday.
06:15I was listening to your questions.
06:17There was some displeasure.
06:18The minister was also displeased.
06:20He did not like Mr. Shahbaz's question at all.
06:23So quickly, Mr. Sanaullah Khan, you are coming to our program for the first time.
06:26Thank you very much for joining us.
06:27I have just read such a big prophecy that the taxpayer class will bear the biggest burden of tax in this country.
06:35A country which is in a state of crisis and there is no money.
06:40Is there no other option except that the taxpayers should pay the tax?
06:48Because it is a consistent source of income.
06:51So should they pay the tax?
06:53Look, unfortunately, if you look at the entire history of Pakistan, from Moeen Qureshi to Aurangzeb,
06:59they are people like bankers.
07:01And the kind of difficult environment Pakistan is in, they can do whatever they want.
07:0725 crore people live here.
07:10They are not dead people or they are not a bank or a company.
07:14They basically run the country's economy, the economy of 25 crore people, like a bank, like a company.
07:21They run the country's economy, the economy of 25 crore people, like a bank, like a company.
07:24They run the country's economy, the economy of 25 crore people, like a bank, like a company.
07:26And this has been happening.
07:27This has not happened for the first time.
07:28It has happened in the past as well.
07:30And all the failures that have been made today, it is because of these people.
07:33All these people who are deaf.
07:35We have been covering them.
07:36It has been 25 years and we have been watching them.
07:39They make stories and take their bags and leave.
07:42It will still be the same.
07:44Even now, the method that has been adopted, perhaps the Noon League does not even know who made the budget.
07:49In this kind of situation, do you think any political government would have given this kind of budget?
07:54In this kind of situation, do you think any political government would have given this kind of budget?
07:55This kind of budget was not given by the dictators who came to power.
08:00That there is not even 1% relief.
08:02And the Minister of Treasury is saying in his press conference that we do not have space.
08:06Today, you must have read the lead of Ghan.
08:08That we do not have space for health, education and the social sector.
08:13Where is the space for them?
08:15The Prime Minister does not like his office.
08:18It has to be renovated.
08:20New furniture has to come.
08:21You have seen that there is no issue.
08:25But the Prime Minister wants new things.
08:27So he has kept Rs. 34 crores for that.
08:29He is giving Rs. 75 crores to the MPs.
08:33You know how they are spent and what happens.
08:36And there was no need for this.
08:39You should be ashamed to do this kind of work.
08:42You should think that people are dying of hyperinflation.
08:46People are committing suicides.
08:47People cannot pay the electricity bill.
08:49You have increased the gas by 300%.
08:52You have increased the gas by 1100%.
08:54In that situation, you are giving a budget and it is a political government.
08:57I still believe that if this is a political government,
09:01and people are elected,
09:03then if they had made the budget themselves, they would not have made such a budget.
09:05You said that there is no space.
09:06There is space.
09:07Government employees have been raised in Punjab, Sindh and Wifaq.
09:12Apart from this, the other funds that are being raised,
09:16there is space.
09:18For a specific group.
09:20Basically, if I start with taxes,
09:25in Pakistan, in the last 25-30 years,
09:28on average, every year,
09:30500, 600, 700 rupees are taxed.
09:34This is the budget of Pakistan's history.
09:38If you take the numbers,
09:40then compared to last year,
09:42we have to do 3.7-3.8 trillion rupees more.
09:46This year, the target is 12,970 rupees.
09:49Last year, the revised target,
09:51which the FBR has written in its documents,
09:53is 9,252 rupees.
09:55Where will this tax come from?
09:57Basically, this needs to be understood.
10:00If, the way this budget is made,
10:03if you look at the GDP growth and inflation numbers,
10:09it comes to around 14-15 billion rupees.
10:12The gap is of 23 billion rupees,
10:16which is due to additional taxes and enforcement.
10:20Now, the FBR believes that 15 billion rupees
10:25is due to taxes.
10:27These are not Pakistan's history taxes.
10:30But I want to tell you the next thing,
10:32that this gap of 8 billion rupees,
10:35what will happen to it?
10:37That's why they mind the question.
10:39The gap will be that a mini-budget will come
10:43and you will have to take additional taxation measures.
10:47That's why when the question was asked
10:49whether you will come with a mini-budget or not,
10:51they said that you have already decided,
10:53so I don't want to answer it.
10:55Now, where is the problem?
10:57The problem is, if you look at the expenditure side,
11:00there are expenditures for the parliamentarians.
11:03Ministers, it was said,
11:05we criticize this budget,
11:07you told me that you will reduce the number of ministries.
11:10After the 80th amendment,
11:12the devolved subjects,
11:14what is the justification for keeping their ministries?
11:16There is only one justification,
11:18that you don't want to reduce the number of your ministers.
11:21You said that you will bring pension reforms.
11:23Tell me, what do you see in pension reforms?
11:26You said that you are introducing contributory pensions.
11:30You said that you will reduce subsidies.
11:32If you look at subsidies,
11:34they have already increased.
11:36Tell me, where have you worked on the expenditure side?
11:41I don't see any work there.
11:43You have imposed taxes.
11:45Where did the taxes come from?
11:47They came from the IMF report in February.
11:50If you read that report,
11:52all the taxes for two things came from the IMF report.
11:56You have taken the same report and kept it.
11:59So, if I say that the IMF made this document and gave it to you,
12:02that this is your budget, you have to pass it.
12:04Is this correct?
12:05This is absolutely correct.
12:06So, this is the IMF budget, right?
12:07This is 100%.
12:08Earlier, the Ministry of Finance and the FBI used to negotiate.
12:13They used to negotiate tough.
12:15Now, I am not saying that it is an easy situation.
12:17But, I don't see any negotiations other than two things.
12:21I will ask you later.
12:22Shabaz, I will come to you.
12:24The IMF says that you have to improve your taxation.
12:28This is your target.
12:30You have to collect this much revenue.
12:32But, you have to decide how much tax you will impose on whom,
12:36how you will impose the tax,
12:38which class you have to give exemption to,
12:40which class you have to keep an eye on aggressively.
12:42These are the decisions of the government.
12:44If you think that the IMF is twisting your arm,
12:48then you have a structural space.
12:52But, we have seen that it is an old formula
12:54that whoever is imposing the tax,
12:55he should be forced to pay the tax.
12:58What will he do?
12:59I was reading your tweet that you should either take a salary in cash
13:02or you should stay in the country.
13:06Thank you very much, Ms. Maria.
13:08Let me tell you about the numbers of this year
13:10which you told us in the beginning.
13:12Those were the numbers of last year.
13:13Last year, people like you and I paid a tax of Rs. 264 billion.
13:20In the 11th month, it has become Rs. 326 billion.
13:24By June, it will become Rs. 360 billion.
13:27The exporter, the richest class of Pakistan,
13:30paid a tax of Rs. 85 billion in the 11th month.
13:33Our retailer, Tajir, paid a tax of Rs. 15.5 billion in the 11th month.
13:38This is the debate that you and I are discussing right now.
13:43Why do these people find difficult questions bad?
13:47Why do they find this thing bad?
13:49People who have run companies all their lives.
13:51Let me give you an example.
13:53Right now, our Minister of Treasury is not a finance minister.
13:56He is the president of HPL.
13:58He tells his investors to invest Rs. 100 billion in my company.
14:04I will give you 10% dividend after a year.
14:07This is not my question.
14:08It is the question of a friend of mine.
14:10If he does not give me 10% dividend after a year,
14:13will I not be asked a question?
14:15When you ask for Rs. 100 billion for investment,
14:17will you not be asked if you need more money after Rs. 100 billion?
14:22It is very simple.
14:24There is no rocket science.
14:26The problem is that you and I have never spoken for our rights.
14:30We are journalists.
14:31We feel ashamed to speak for our rights.
14:34But we are citizens of this country.
14:35We have to feed our children.
14:37We are journalists.
14:38We have to ask for our rights.
14:41What should we do?
14:42What should these people do?
14:43We will raise our voices.
14:45What should they do?
14:47They gave a budget of Rs. 1400 billion,
14:51which does not make any sense.
14:53That budget is against the decisions of the Special Investment Facilitation Council
14:57and the National Economic Council.
15:00If it was not for Rs. 1400 billion,
15:02if it was Rs. 1000 billion,
15:04there would have been no tax on milk,
15:06no tax on salad class,
15:08no tax on books,
15:10no tax on stationery.
15:12These people did not find it appropriate
15:14to make their 10-12 ministers unemployed.
15:17Even the Minister of Treasury,
15:18Mohammad Aurangzeb,
15:20in a meeting with the National Economic Council
15:22and the meetings with the Prime Minister,
15:24said that we should terminate 8-10 ministries.
15:28And this goes on their credit.
15:31Yesterday, they admitted in a post-budget press conference
15:34that we should have terminated some ministries,
15:36but we could not.
15:38So, if you are unemployed,
15:40if you cannot convince the Prime Minister,
15:43then why are you, me and millions of people like you
15:47being punished through this budget?
15:49Let me correct one more thing.
15:50The IMF is not saying that you should impose so many taxes.
15:53When the Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharif came to power,
15:55he said that he would give a revenue target of Rs. 13,000 billion next year.
15:59What does the IMF tell you?
16:01The IMF tells you a simple thing,
16:03that they want a surplus of the primary budget.
16:06The surplus of the primary budget,
16:08which means the remaining money that is left
16:10after the interest on loans,
16:12they want Rs. 1241 billion next year.
16:16So, the Rs. 1241 billion that you have to show,
16:19you can either show it by reducing expenses,
16:22or you can show it by imposing new taxes.
16:24You cannot do that.
16:25Why?
16:26This is a silent class,
16:27which has no voice.
16:29There is no one to listen to it.
16:30You will keep killing it.
16:32In the beginning, you made the Prime Minister
16:34and the other rulers,
16:36who were in opposition,
16:38listen to their thoughts.
16:39Neither do I have any expectations from PM Shahbaz Sharif,
16:41nor do I have any expectations from PM Aurangzeb.
16:45A political party and its leaders,
16:47who can save the silent class at this time,
16:49if they genuinely think that it is a party of the common man,
16:53that it is a party of the Pakistan people.
16:54Today, the United Nations government,
16:56if the Pakistan People's Party does not vote for it,
16:59which you keep saying is a drama,
17:01or if they genuinely feel it,
17:03if the Pakistan People's Party does not vote for the budget,
17:05until the taxation of the silent class is reversed,
17:08until then, I will not believe it.
17:10No one should believe that the People's Party
17:12is genuinely opposing the budget.
17:14The problem is not that I am asking for a riot for myself,
17:16or for you, or for someone else.
17:19I am saying that the tax on me,
17:21the tax on all of you,
17:22is so high now,
17:24that we are already carrying the burden of others.
17:26The 8-10 loyal ministers who were supposed to be unemployed,
17:30the 8-10 federal secretaries who were supposed to be unemployed,
17:33their division, their leadership had to go.
17:36I am not ready to pay the price for that.
17:38They should find their own ways.
17:40Very well summed up, Shahbaz Rana,
17:41what you said at the end,
17:42that a few people should not be at ease.
17:44For that, we have to pay the price.
17:48But what the People's Party has said,
17:50Mr. Hassan, the People's Party will vote.
17:53We will talk about that in the next segment of the program.
17:59For them, it is a matter of transfer posts,
18:01it is a matter of PSDB,
18:03apart from that, the positions they need in the committees,
18:05that is the matter.
18:07They have taken all the positions,
18:08they have taken all the positions,
18:10they have taken the chairmanship of the Senate Finance Committee.
18:13So, will they leave anyone?
18:15You tell me, will the governors leave?
18:17Will they leave the chairman of the Senate?
18:19Will they leave the presidency?
18:20They will never leave.
18:21So, Mr. Shahbaz, do you have that hope?
18:23Do you have a little hope from the People's Party?
18:25Look, they are trying,
18:27and today they have said,
18:28Salim Mandviwala has said,
18:30that until our talks are not accepted,
18:32we will not vote.
18:33And we will not let the budget pass.
18:34These are our concerns.
18:36And we should have hope,
18:37because they are also political people.
18:39They also come from Sindh,
18:40from somewhere with votes.
18:41So, they also have to face the people.
18:43And today they have increased the salary by 30%.
18:45In Sindh?
18:46Yes.
18:47So, they have some potential
18:49that they can increase the salary.
18:51How will they take back the 13%
18:53that they have promised,
18:54Mr. Aurangzeb's tax collection?
18:57Look, I have no hope from Shahbaz.
19:00I have no hope from the People's Party.
19:02You also have no hope.
19:03I have no hope.
19:04Yes, they can do two things.
19:06One, they will try to reduce the tax
19:08that has increased on exporters,
19:10practically.
19:11And the second,
19:12they can also try on the real estate.
19:14So, these are the two hopes.
19:15I have no hope from the salaried class.
19:17And they won't do it on the traders as well.
19:18Why will they do it?
19:19On the traders,
19:20PMLN will do it,
19:21because the constituency is different.
19:23So, one, I have no hope on this.
19:26Two,
19:27one,
19:28what Shahbaz was saying about the IMF.
19:30Look,
19:31basically,
19:32there is a diagnostic report of the IMF.
19:34It came in February.
19:35If I knew,
19:36I would have taken a copy of it.
19:38I would have shown it to you.
19:39There are two things that they didn't agree.
19:41The rest,
19:42I think,
19:44the chairman of FBR,
19:46the finance minister,
19:47didn't agree.
19:48Let's ask Shahbaz.
19:49There are two things that he didn't agree.
19:50He didn't agree.
19:51I know.
19:52One,
19:53GST.
19:54He was saying
19:55that 18% GST
19:56should be applied
19:57on petroleum products.
19:58Okay.
19:59He didn't agree.
20:00Right.
20:01Or,
20:02he tried to negotiate it.
20:03What did he do?
20:04Secondly,
20:05basically,
20:06the salad slabs,
20:07those slabs,
20:08those who were proposing,
20:09they were saying
20:10that you should make them four.
20:12Okay.
20:13He didn't reduce those slabs.
20:15But,
20:16he made those adjustments.
20:18Especially,
20:19the middle income,
20:20he shifted the burden
20:21on that.
20:22That's unfair.
20:23That's right.
20:24The rest,
20:25100% agreed.
20:26So,
20:27this is IMF's budget.
20:28After this,
20:29for IMF,
20:30the next,
20:31the next GST,
20:32the next,
20:33the next phase,
20:34will it be easier
20:35for Pakistan?
20:36I think
20:37it will be like this.
20:38Thank you all for tonight.
20:39We will go on a break.
20:40When we come back,
20:41Mr. Nayyar Bukhari will be with us.
20:42Where is the politics
20:43of People's Party standing right now?
20:44Whether it is in Punjab
20:45or in Wafaaq,
20:46there is unity.
20:47But,
20:48a lot of things seem to be
20:49very loyal.
20:50Stay with us after the break.
20:55Welcome back, Ji.
20:56The Pakistan People's Party,
20:57a large unity of the government,
20:58has serious reservations
20:59regarding the budget.
21:01When the budget meeting was taking place,
21:03on that occasion,
21:04the People's Party
21:05expressed
21:06their objection.
21:09The question arises that
21:10the People's Party
21:11is standing
21:12where it is right now.
21:13It seems that
21:14they are playing
21:15both sides of the wicket.
21:16Regarding the budget,
21:17what are their clear
21:18reservations
21:19of the People's Party?
21:20Please listen to this.
21:22We have not been
21:23convinced of anything.
21:24We have not been
21:25discussed about
21:26the budget.
21:27We have to decide
21:28on the PSG
21:29in all four corners
21:30of the State House.
21:33We are equally
21:34involved in this crime.
21:35We have voted for you
21:36and we did not vote
21:37for you
21:38because you
21:39did not
21:40inform us
21:41that you
21:42could prepare
21:43the budget
21:44in your kitchen.
21:45You did not
21:46even bother
21:47the Pakistan
21:48People's Party
21:49to include
21:50it in this
21:51compromise.
21:52The government
21:53of loyalty
21:54had an agreement
21:55with the People's Party
21:56that they will
21:57move forward
21:58and improve.
21:59We will
22:00take input
22:01from your party.
22:02Our party
22:03has not
22:04taken any input
22:05in this budget
22:06making.
22:07The PMLA
22:08has not
22:09Pakistan people's party can't make their own government if they don't get the people's party vote.
22:14We saw on the budget issue that they complained that they were not trusted.
22:18What kind of an alliance is this that they are not trusted on every important legislation?
22:22The bill for the Khatak Izzat has just been passed in Punjab.
22:25The Pakistan people's party has so much ignorance there as well.
22:28Even there, no one trusted them.
22:30If the bill came, they should have sent it back.
22:32I don't think that the bill came in the presence of the Governor
22:37and they didn't send it back and they left.
22:40I don't think this is right.
22:42The people's party's stance from day one,
22:45the people's party is based on the fact that we don't tolerate any kind of freedom of expression.
22:52Nor are we with it.
22:54When this law was being passed in Punjab, the Pakistan people's party didn't become a part of it.
22:58The MPs of the people's party didn't become a part of the law.
23:01Then when the bill went to the Governor for signature,
23:05the Pakistan people's party Governor of Punjab,
23:09he didn't sign it.
23:11The people's party never brings such laws.
23:15We will talk to Syed Nayyar Hussain Bukhari,
23:17General Secretary of the Pakistan People's Party.
23:19He is with us.
23:20We will talk about the people's party's budget,
23:22and the other issues that are being discussed at the moment.
23:26Thank you very much to Bukhari for taking out time.
23:29Sir, your objection to the budget, your reservations about the PSDB and other issues,
23:35are very clear.
23:36But these reservations and disagreements are in the context that
23:39it may be a problem to vote for the people's party,
23:43or they will vote for the budget,
23:45they will pass the budget.
23:46Have you decided on this?
23:51Thank you.
23:52I would like to say that
23:56there is a difference of opinion.
23:58Within parties, we are in an alliance.
24:01And we had an agreement when we made the alliance.
24:06There were certain terms and conditions.
24:09Some obligations were on us,
24:10and some obligations were on them.
24:13And obviously,
24:15there is a written agreement.
24:18Basically, our reservation was on the PSDB.
24:23We were not allowed to share the allocation.
24:25Our government is in two provinces.
24:27And what will be our share for those provinces?
24:31And particularly,
24:33the budget that they prepared and proposed for Wafaaq,
24:38we did not have a consultation on that too.
24:39We had reservations on that too.
24:42And we showed our concern.
24:45And the parliamentary party decided that we should abstain.
24:48But ultimately, when the reapproachment took place,
24:51Chairman Bilawal Bhutto agreed that
24:54we will have further negotiations.
24:57And this was confirmed by the leadership of PMN
25:00that we will implement the agreements that we have made with you.
25:06Obviously, this vote will be after 24th or 25th.
25:11There will be a debate and discussion.
25:14Cut motions will come.
25:16So, there is always political dialogue between political parties.
25:20People's Party always believes in dialogue.
25:23So, we are hopeful.
25:25In the beginning, we said that we believe in the continuity of the system.
25:29On the basis of which, we made this alliance and formed this government.
25:33In the beginning, Chairman Bilawal was hopeful.
25:37But the results that came, we did not have that strength.
25:40And we also told other parties to form a government.
25:44But we believed in the continuity of the system.
25:46But, sir, if the government is so fragile,
25:50and the government is standing on the crutches of the People's Party,
25:53then why did they not take you on PSDP?
25:57Why did they not talk to you? Why did they not consult you?
26:00What is your guess? Why did they do this?
26:03You should ask them this question.
26:06Sir, he has asked them.
26:08They say that they had shown it to some ministers.
26:11They told them that you were present there.
26:13Now you are doing politics.
26:14No, no, no.
26:16Look, our parliamentary leaders are there.
26:19In the National Assembly and in the Senate.
26:22Although we are not a part of the Cabinet,
26:25but their support for the government depends on our support.
26:30And if they neglect us, then ultimately they will not be able to maintain the government.
26:36So, we told them that the agreements that you have made,
26:38apart from PSDP, there are other offices, development schemes,
26:44development boards, and other autonomous bodies.
26:49There are a lot of issues.
26:51There is an appointment of law officers.
26:53There are a lot of issues.
26:55And for this, the Pakistan People's Party has constituted committees.
26:57We have a separate committee for PK.
26:59We have a separate committee for Sindh.
27:01We have a separate committee for Punjab.
27:03It is a member of parliament.
27:04Khurshid Shah and Naveed Qamar are present there.
27:10In the National Assembly, the committee negotiates with Punjab.
27:14Chairman Bilawal himself is present there.
27:16So, we could have turned to him.
27:18So, if we did not turn to him, then we conveyed our concern.
27:22And hopefully, we think that PMLN must have realized this.
27:28And they will redress our concerns.
27:31Sir, I was reading Mr. Gilani's statement.
27:34He was saying that we need space in Punjab as well.
27:36What kind of space do we need in Punjab?
27:38Was the posting transfer the same?
27:40See, what happened in the beginning was that the Pakistan People's Party,
27:46although we do not have that number of members in the provincial assembly,
27:50the People's Party does exist.
27:52Some of our dates were filled.
27:54Apart from members, if the ticket holders get development funds,
27:58then the members of the People's Party should also get development funds.
28:04If they are a member of a development board,
28:07then the people of the People's Party should also be a member of a development board.
28:10So, this is the space.
28:12In the boards of WABDA and DISCOS,
28:19the People's Party will not be washed out.
28:22The seats that we thought were in front of you,
28:27by design, we think that the attitude with the People's Party has always been
28:32that the People's Party should be eliminated from Punjab.
28:35But the People's Party will not be eliminated like this.
28:37So, if we are with them in the government,
28:39then if our people are neglected in Punjab as well,
28:43then next time how will they sit with us in the parliamentary party
28:47and tell us to be careful with them.
28:48So, Mr. Bukhari, basically,
28:50if the development funds are settled,
28:53if the appointments with the different boards have been promised,
28:57if your grievances with the committees are addressed,
29:01then you will vote for the budget.
29:04Obviously, we believe in the continuity of the system.
29:08We don't want the system to be derailed.
29:11The People's Party has made a huge sacrifice for this system.
29:14We don't want the democratic process to be terminated from the country.
29:18Right.
29:20Sir, the democratic process,
29:22or Mr. Imran Khan will benefit if you don't run the system like this.
29:27So, this is also a joint thing that you have joined against the opposition.
29:32See, the opposition exists in the parliamentary system.
29:39And obviously, Imran Khan has made a mature statement,
29:45I think, that we are ready to negotiate.
29:49Thank God.
29:51In politics, dialogue is very important.
29:54And a mature politician is the one who believes in dialogue.
29:58Whatever the results,
30:00but you should not start negotiations.
30:03And who is resolving the issues?
30:05Issues are not resolved by beating someone up.
30:08Issues are not resolved by beating someone up.
30:11They are resolved by dialogue.
30:13So, dialogue should be between the political parties.
30:16And particularly, in the issues of Pakistan,
30:19if the politicians want to resolve the issues,
30:22then they will sit down and resolve the issues.
30:24There will be suggestions and the outcome will come from that.
30:27You have met Mr. Shahbaz today.
30:29Yesterday, you met Mr. Moulana Fazl-ur-Rehman.
30:32How confident are you that you will convince Mr. Moulana?
30:35Because Mr. Tehreek-e-Jadid is also talking to him.
30:38You are also talking to him.
30:40How confident are you that he will not go to the opposition and join hands with Mr. Khan?
30:48Look, in politics, there are no permanent friendships.
30:52And there are no permanent oppositions either.
30:55I had a very good time with Mr. Moulana about my Jamaat and my leadership.
30:59He is one of the personal friends of Asif Ali Zardari.
31:02There is a complete difference of opinion in politics.
31:05He has no complaints from the Pakistan People's Party.
31:08Because he was the head of the PDM and he understands the issues of the PDM better.
31:13And he was upset with the PM.
31:15So, Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharif went to convince him and talked to him.
31:20But there should definitely be a discussion on the issues.
31:23And Moulana is an experienced politician.
31:25God willing, he will definitely follow the positive aspects of the dialogue.
31:29Okay, today, you met Mr. Mohsin Naqvi, President of Asif Ali Zardari.
31:33These meetings are taking place.
31:36Was there any special agenda?
31:39Was Mr. Mohsin Naqvi meeting with Mr. Moulana?
31:42After that, he is meeting with Mr. Asif Ali Zardari.
31:44So, there is a pattern.
31:47So, should it be understood that there is a meeting or a contact?
31:53This is not an extraordinary thing.
31:56Politicians are members of the parliament.
31:59So, this is not an extraordinary thing.
32:03I think it is a routine thing.
32:05He is a member of the cabinet.
32:07He is the President.
32:09He represents the state.
32:11So, he is also a political leader.
32:15He has been the head of the political party.
32:17So, there is no harm in communicating with him or taking some guidance from him.
32:23And I think that if there is to be political stability in the country,
32:27there should be discussions and meetings.
32:30Mr. Bukhari, the bill has been passed.
32:33Your governor did not sign it.
32:35The people's party members were not present in Aivan.
32:38The bill has been passed.
32:40There will be a challenge.
32:42But the people's party has given a lukewarm response.
32:45Mr. Bilawal Bhutto Zardari did not give an open statement on this.
32:48You have a very strict stance on this issue.
32:51The kind of opposition that has been the tradition of the people's party in the past,
32:55has not been seen.
32:56And you are saying that your silence should be seen as partial consent.
33:02Why do you expect me to show my concern to the rest of the people?
33:11Without a doubt, I believe in freedom of expression.
33:15But you see,
33:17indiscriminate freedom is not right.
33:20It is subject to certain nationalities.
33:22It is subject to law and constitution.
33:24And you see,
33:26there is a need to control social media.
33:29The kind of material that is posted,
33:33it is in front of you.
33:35Someone's turban is thrown like this.
33:37This does not reach anyone's right.
33:40Whether it is me,
33:42that I insult someone,
33:44and I do false publicity about someone.
33:49If there is any credible information against me,
33:51if I have committed a crime,
33:53it should definitely be published.
33:55Or if I am against someone,
33:57I should have material,
33:59I should have credible information,
34:01and I can substantiate this tomorrow.
34:03So, it should not be indiscriminate.
34:05You have seen how indiscriminate it is on social media.
34:07You are endorsing this bill.
34:09I will say one thing,
34:11the way the bill was passed,
34:13it should not have been passed like this.
34:15The stakeholders should have been taken on board.
34:18There should have been a discussion in the committee.
34:21There are many provisions in it,
34:23which are objectionable.
34:25So, it could have been discussed.
34:27Sir, you are pushing the government so aggressively.
34:29But you think that everyone should have freedom.
34:31No, no, sir, I don't think so.
34:33As you saw an extreme reaction on the budget,
34:35you saw your aggressive opposition,
34:37you saw your aggressive reservations.
34:39To the extent that the bill was not seen in Punjab,
34:41nor was the concern of the People's Party seen in Wifaq.
34:44See, it means that
34:46we should not be clubbed with certain organizations.
34:49We are bringing our point of view.
34:51Our parliamentary leader said that
34:53we should not have been taken on board.
34:55Okay.
34:57If they could have passed it without our strength,
34:59our presence would not have been there.
35:01The governor said on day one
35:03that I do not agree with this bill.
35:05Under the constitution,
35:07they would have referred back.
35:09So, they did not do it.
35:11And if they had passed it again and sent it,
35:13they would not have signed it.
35:15They did not refer back.
35:17This is the problem.
35:19If they had gone abroad,
35:21then the acting governor would have signed it.
35:23Sir, they would have sent it back after raising objections.
35:25Then they would have gone abroad.
35:27They did not sign it and sent it back.
35:29They did not raise objections and sent it back.
35:31Governor cannot have a dictation from the organizations.
35:35The governor has his own responsibilities.
35:38He knows what he has to do with it.
35:41Now, you should understand that
35:43people should start dictating the office of the governor to the parliament.
35:46They should not be dictating.
35:47No, if you have objections as a party policy,
35:50if you have objections as the governor of the People's Party,
35:52then you should raise those objections on the bill and send it back.
35:55Sir, we are talking about procedural matters.
35:57Publicly he announced it.
36:00Somehow, he did not go back.
36:02So, what is the problem?
36:04Sir, the bill was passed.
36:06But they did not discuss it.
36:08They did not discuss what was to be done.
36:10The committee did not review what was to be done.
36:12Look, the important thing was that
36:14what was the hurry to pass the bill to the Punjab government?
36:19Why did they not invite the stakeholders?
36:22They should have invited them.
36:24Some provisions are like this.
36:26For example, the leave grant.
36:29Obviously, that leave grant is also there
36:32so that the person can substantiate that
36:35the news he has given has sound material.
36:39It is based on his information
36:41and he can establish it in the court of law.
36:44Right.
36:46But you should also see that
36:48when news comes against you,
36:50it comes in two columns.
36:52When there is a refutation,
36:54it comes in two lines.
36:56So, what is the redress for the damage
36:58that is caused to a personality?
37:00Sir, Mr. Bukhari, this is what you are saying.
37:02This is what happens, sir.
37:04You understand the parliamentary system better than me.
37:06The bill goes back with objections.
37:08There is pressure on the government.
37:10The People's Party does aggressive politics there.
37:12And then these objections
37:14may go away from you.
37:16You have not done this.
37:18You have given them an easy walkover.
37:20No, it is not a walkover.
37:22This is your perception.
37:24According to me, it is not that correct.
37:27I have said that
37:29we should not be dictated
37:31as to how to do politics.
37:33We have done politics
37:35and we have started it.
37:37Even today, we say that
37:39there should have been a better law.
37:40It should not have been passed
37:42in this situation.
37:44There are a few provisions
37:46that I think should not have been there.
37:48Okay, sir.
37:50Thank you very much.
37:52Mr. Bukhari was with us.
37:54We will come back after the break.
37:56The son of the President of the Oxford Union,
37:58Pakistan, who is from Balochistan,
38:00has been elected.
38:02We will talk about him after the break.
38:05Welcome back, sir.
38:07A very encouraging news came out this week.
38:08It came from England.
38:10The new President of the Oxford Union
38:12is from Pakistan.
38:14He is Sardar Asrar Khan Kakar.
38:16Who is Sardar Asrar Khan Kakar?
38:18And what is the role of the President of the Oxford Union?
38:21Let us quickly tell you.
38:23In the recent elections of the Oxford Union,
38:25Asrar Khan Kakar,
38:27who is from the area of Balochistan,
38:29Kala Abdullah,
38:31has been elected as the new President.
38:33Asrar Khan Kakar,
38:35compared to 393 votes,
38:36has taken 617 votes.
38:38Asrar Khan Kakar,
38:40after being elected as the President of the Oxford Union,
38:42has become the third Pakistani to hold this post.
38:44Prior to this,
38:46Pakistan's former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto,
38:48in 1977,
38:50and Ahmed Nawaz,
38:52who belonged to Peshawar,
38:54were the Pakistanis who won the presidency of the Oxford Union in 2022.
38:56Asrar Khan Kakar,
38:58is currently a DPhil Scholar
39:00in the Faculty of Law at Oxford University.
39:02His research is on the Belt and Road Project of China.
39:05It is a good thing that a young, promising Pakistani student,
39:10like Asrar Khan Kakar,
39:12won the election in Oxford University,
39:14and became the head of the Oxford Union.
39:16After that, we saw that the Prime Minister of Pakistan,
39:19by the way,
39:21tweeted using VPN,
39:23and congratulated him.
39:25He said,
39:27I congratulate Asrar Khan Kakar from the whole of Pakistan,
39:29that he has been elected as the President of the Oxford Union.
39:31And he said,
39:33it is a great achievement.
39:35He belongs to Balochistan.
39:37He is a shining example.
39:39He is a hardworking person.
39:41You have made the whole nation proud.
39:43And at the same time,
39:45you expressed your good wishes for him.
39:47Not only this,
39:49S. N. Iqbal,
39:51using VPN,
39:53through Twitter,
39:55congratulated Asrar Khan Kakar,
39:57and said,
39:59we are very proud of you.
40:01Where was the Prime Minister of Balochistan going to stay?
40:03S. Bukti,
40:05again using VPN,
40:07tweeted,
40:09it is a very proud moment for Balochistan, for Pakistan.
40:11And,
40:13Benazir Bhutto Sahiba,
40:15who is a member of the People's Party,
40:17he said,
40:19Kakar has been elected as the President of the Oxford Union.
40:22In response to this,
40:24Asrar Khan Kakar replied to the Prime Minister of Pakistan,
40:26and he said,
40:28thank you very much for your kind words.
40:29And,
40:31it is a matter of great pride for him
40:33that he is representing Pakistan.
40:35He also said,
40:37that a scholarship should be made for those students
40:40who belong to the marginalised class of Pakistan.
40:43But, the last and most important thing he said,