House Transportation & Infrastructure Committee Holds Hearing On Amtrak & Intercity Passenger Rail

4 months ago

On Wednesday, the House Transportation & Infrastructure Committee held a hearing entitled, “Amtrak and Intercity Passenger Rail Oversight: Promoting Performance, Safety, and Accountability.”

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Transcript

00:00:00pipelines and hazardous materials will come to order. I ask unanimous consent that the chairman

00:00:05be authorized to declare a recess at any time during today's hearing without objection so

00:00:09ordered. I also ask unanimous consent that members not on the subcommittee be permitted to sit with

00:00:14the subcommittee at today's hearing and ask questions without objection so ordered. As a

00:00:20reminder, if members wish to insert a document into the record, please also email it to

00:00:25documentsci at mail.house.gov. I now recognize myself for the purposes of an opening statement

00:00:31for five minutes. Today's hearing will survey the current and future operations of Amtrak.

00:00:37Amtrak is federally chartered owned by the federal government and governed by a board of directors

00:00:43appointed by the president and subject to send it to confirmation. As a generous recipient of

00:00:49taxpayer dollars to operate its system, Amtrak should focus on maintaining and improving

00:00:55its current services to increase revenue and achieve profitability. Instead, Amtrak seems

00:01:01content to lose roughly $1 billion per year by its own predictions and flush with historic funding

00:01:08from the IJA is choosing to pursue costly and highly questionable acquisitions and route

00:01:14expansions that may not serve the best interests of the American commuter. Amtrak ridership

00:01:21collapsed during the COVID-19 pandemic. Ridership has since rebounded as of March of 2024, yet much

00:01:29remains to be done to improve service and attract riders. Today's hearing will provide an opportunity

00:01:37to continue this subcommittee's examination of the challenges that are in the way of potential

00:01:42improvements. For instance, in 2016 Amtrak received almost $2.5 billion in federal loans

00:01:50to procure new Acela train sets. However, as of today, no train sets have been entered into service.

00:01:57This is primarily because Amtrak approved the manufacture of new train sets before the

00:02:02completion of required safety modeling that ensures the trains are safe to run on the northeast

00:02:09corridor track. As such, these train sets are three years behind schedule and tens of millions

00:02:15of dollars over budget. We also remain concerned about the lack of improvements in transparency and

00:02:21accountability at Amtrak following the record levels of funding it has received in recent years.

00:02:28The Amtrak Board of Directors does not make its meetings open to the public as other federally

00:02:33chartered entities do, and the Board has approved substantial performance bonuses payments to Amtrak

00:02:40executives despite significant financial losses. As the Committee of Jurisdiction over Amtrak,

00:02:48we will continue to monitor these critical issues and conduct oversight to ensure that taxpayer

00:02:53funding is used in the most effective manner to improve service and get Amtrak back on the road

00:03:00to profitability. Thank you to our witnesses for joining us today, and I do look forward to our

00:03:07discussion. I now recognize Ranking Member of the Subcommittee, Ms. Frederick-Wilson, for five

00:03:13minutes for an opening statement. Thank you, Chairman Niels, and thank you to our witnesses

00:03:19today. Welcome to all of you. Amtrak is our nation's inner-city passenger rail service,

00:03:27and as a Floridian, I'm proud of both Amtrak's routes and Brightline services, which now connect

00:03:36Miami and Orlando. Amtrak and Brightline operates on tracks that my great-grandfather built

00:03:46when he first immigrated to this country from the Bahamas. Amtrak allowed me to ride my first

00:03:54overnight train trip to New York City as a little girl. Two Amtrak trains per day

00:04:01run through my district, and we have a maintenance facility in nearby Hialeah.

00:04:08Brightline and Amtrak are essential services in our community, but unfortunately, we have endured

00:04:16too many grade-crossing deaths. Two weeks ago, a vehicle was struck on the rail in Opa-locka in

00:04:27the heart of my district. Luckily, no one was hurt this time, but this is just one of the countless

00:04:35incidents of rail car collision. While I understand some of these incidents are outside Brightline

00:04:42and Amtrak's control, at a certain point with so many incidents, we must ask, at what point

00:04:52is it becomes our joint responsibility to address this crisis? When do we do that?

00:05:02For the three years before the Brightline launch, I discussed safety along the railroad line

00:05:08because safety remains my top priority for the work on this subcommittee. Alongside safety,

00:05:15expanding rail to all Americans and connecting the diverse parts of America through rail remains a

00:05:23priority for me. As one of the five original co-sponsors of the bipartisan infrastructure law,

00:05:32I'm proud that this law is ushering in an era of unprecedented investments in rail.

00:05:39We're seeing this funding being channeled into substantial safety improvements to the Brightline

00:05:46route in Dania Beach, Wilton Manors, Fort Lauderdale, Hallandale Beach, Hollywood,

00:05:54Papineau Beach, and West Palm Beach. In our effort to expand rail, the corridor ID program

00:06:01identified 69 corridors in 44 states, guiding passenger rail expansion across the country.

00:06:10I'm glad to see that two of those corridors are in my home state of Florida, and more specifically,

00:06:18in my community, the Miami-Orlando-Tampa corridor and the Jacksonville-Orlando-Miami corridor.

00:06:27Late last year, the Federal Railroad Administration awarded $8.2 billion across

00:06:3410 projects in nine states to improve and expand passenger rail service. This includes

00:06:43extending and improving the Piedmont corridor in North Carolina, which will improve connections

00:06:50with the busy Northeast corridor. Ms. White, I'm sure you will be able to tell us more about

00:06:59just how your state has been able to make this historic investment in passenger rail.

00:07:06Beyond the benefits to rail passengers, the bipartisan infrastructure law investments

00:07:12are revolutionizing the railway supply chain. Siemens is investing in a new North Carolina

00:07:19facility that will build new Amtrak train sets and provide maintenance for rail cars and

00:07:26locomotives for years to come. This facility will add 500 jobs and over $1.6 billion

00:07:36to local economy, all thanks to the bipartisan infrastructure law.

00:07:43Through recent rail investments, we also have been able to better support

00:07:48our future rail workers. Last September, the Federal Railroad Administration awarded

00:07:56the University of South Florida a $17 million grant to work with universities nationwide

00:08:04to boost the railroad workforce. These are just some of the many improvements we've recently made

00:08:11in rail space, and I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today about the impact the

00:08:18bipartisan infrastructure law has made on passenger rail and what they would like to see

00:08:26in the next infrastructure law. All aboard, Mr. Chair. With that, I yield back. Thank you, Ms.

00:08:34Wilson, and I appreciate your comments on rail crossings, grade crossings, and the dangers that

00:08:39we see across our country probably on a weekly basis here, and I think we as a committee should

00:08:44address those. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I now recognize the Ranking Member of the full

00:08:50committee, Mr. Larsa, for five minutes for an opening statement. Thank you, Chair, and thank you,

00:08:54Ranking Member Wilson, for holding today's hearing on improving Amtrak and intercity passenger rail

00:08:59across the country. Before I begin, I want to welcome Representative Chris DiLuzio as a member

00:09:04of this subcommittee, as well as a member of the Subcommittee on Aviation. Representative DiLuzio

00:09:10joins this committee with a record of fighting to strengthen transportation safety and support

00:09:14workers. I look forward to your partnership on rail safety and other initiatives to make America's

00:09:19infrastructure cleaner, greener, safer, and more accessible. Turning to today's hearing, the

00:09:25bipartisan infrastructure law was a monumental achievement that supercharged our nation's

00:09:29investment in rail with more than $100 billion in funding. The BIL provided bold, long-term

00:09:35investments in transportation systems and infrastructure. These investments are creating

00:09:40jobs and benefiting the economy. For intercity passenger rail, the BIL guaranteed multi-year

00:09:45funding for capital investments and development. It made possible, for the first time ever, dedicated,

00:09:50reliable federal funding, dispersed over five years, to improve and expand intercity passenger

00:09:56rail. Since our hearing last year, the FRA has announced $26.6 billion in BIL grants for 237

00:10:04projects. This includes 69 corridors in 44 states, including the District of Columbia, that were all

00:10:11recipients of corridor ID grants. In my state of Washington, the Washington State Department of

00:10:16Transportation received grants for two corridors. The Cascadia ultra-high-speed ground transportation

00:10:21project that will provide a new alignment for high-speed rail service between Vancouver, Canada

00:10:26and Portland, Oregon via Seattle, and the current state-supported Amtrak Cascades route that serves

00:10:33Billingham, Mount Vernon, Stanwood, Everett, and Edmonds in my district. The BIL is also an

00:10:38investment in our workforce. The funding is being used to grow a well-trained, diverse workforce to

00:10:43build, operate, and maintain a national intercity passenger rail network. Amtrak has hired an

00:10:49additional 8,500 people in the last two years, and the BIL is funding university-led, Amtrak-led,

00:10:55and union-led workforce development initiatives. Great results already here, as we hit the halfway

00:11:00mark of the BIL, and more is still to come from additional rail funding to be announced.

00:11:06Now, while the final appropriations bill for fiscal year 2024 did not include

00:11:11all the rail funding authorized in BIL, it did demonstrate bipartisan support for these

00:11:15investments. I look forward to hearing today from witnesses about the impact of budget certainty

00:11:22and how this will ultimately improve service for rail passengers. As we did in fighting for rail

00:11:27funding in the BIL, this committee is dedicated to helping communities get regular and reliable

00:11:31passenger rail service, and of the 100 billion dollars provided for rail in the BIL, 66 billion

00:11:38was provided in the form of advanced appropriations. The remaining 34 billion is subject

00:11:43to appropriations and therefore not guaranteed. So, I'll continue to push for Congress to fully fund

00:11:49its intercity passenger rail commitments to create jobs, grow regional economies, reduce congestion

00:11:54and carbon emissions, and build a cleaner, greener, safer, and more accessible transportation network.

00:11:59This transformational investment in the BIL is a great start, but Congress needs to build on this

00:12:05by securing regular, reliable funding for intercity passenger rail. Thanks to BIL, for the

00:12:11first time since the founding of Amtrak over 50 years ago, states and cities have the certainty

00:12:16of knowing that funding for passenger rail projects will be there. Highways, transit, airports, and

00:12:21harbors all have funding certainty to some extent, enabling long-term major capital projects in these

00:12:28modes without fluctuations due to the annual appropriations process. It's time that intercity

00:12:32passenger rail had the same certainty. The demand exists. Last year, FRA received over 18 billion

00:12:39dollars in applications for 8.9 billion in available funds, and the Corridor ID program

00:12:45received over 90 applications from communities that want to add or improve intercity passenger

00:12:51rail connections. So, today we're going to hear from witnesses who are turning these historic

00:12:55investments into tangible improvements. I want to thank each of the witnesses for joining the

00:13:00committee today to provide their vision and recommendations for the future of passenger rail,

00:13:05and with that, I yield back. Thank you, Member Larson-Yields. I would like to welcome our witnesses

00:13:11and thank them for being here today. Briefly, I'd like to take a moment to explain our lighting

00:13:17system to our witnesses. There are three lights in front of you. Green means go, yellow you're

00:13:21running out, and red conclude your marks. I ask unanimous consent that the witnesses' full statements

00:13:26be included into the record, without objection so ordered. I ask unanimous consent that the record

00:13:31of today's hearing remain open until such time as our witnesses have provided answers to any

00:13:36questions that may be submitted to them in writing, without objection so ordered. I also ask

00:13:42unanimous consent that the record remain open for 15 days for any additional comments and information

00:13:47submitted by the members of witnesses to be included in the record of today's hearing,

00:13:51without objection so ordered. As your written testimony has been made part of the record,

00:13:55the subcommittee asks that you limit your oral remarks to five minutes. With that, Mr. Gardner,

00:14:01you are recognized for five minutes. Good afternoon, Chairman Nels, Ranking Member Wilson,

00:14:06Ranking Member Larson, and members of the subcommittee. I'm Stephen Gardner, Amtrak's CEO,

00:14:11and thank you for inviting me today. It's my pleasure to share this table with our chairman,

00:14:15Tony Kosha, and our great partner, Deputy Secretary White of North Carolina. Amtrak has accomplished a

00:14:21great deal during FY24. Our ridership and revenue are up over 20 and 10 percent, respectively,

00:14:29and May was our best revenue month ever in the history of the company. We're on track to set a

00:14:34new record ridership this year and will further reduce our operating losses. We've expanded

00:14:40service with our state partners, and on the Northeast Corridor, we've added frequencies to

00:14:44meet demand. Thanks to the funding from the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, construction

00:14:50is now underway or starting soon on truly massive projects that we've been discussing for decades,

00:14:56like the Hudson and Frederick Douglass Tunnel Projects, the Portal North, Connecticut, and

00:15:01Susquehanna River Bridges, and redevelopment of our stations in Chicago and Philadelphia.

00:15:07We are also acquiring new equipment that will transform the travel experience.

00:15:12Our new Acela trains are in testing now and could enter service around the end of this year.

00:15:18Our new Amtrak Aeros for regional service in the Northeast and state-supported routes are arriving

00:15:23in 2026, and we are out to bid right now for a new fleet of long-distance trains.

00:15:29To make all this happen, Amtrak is undergoing a dramatic transformation. We are not the company

00:15:35we were a few years ago. We have rebuilt and expanded our workforce with some of the best

00:15:39in the business. We've enhanced safety and security thanks to technologies like positive

00:15:44train control and the hard work of the Amtrak Police Department and our cyber security team.

00:15:49We've improved overall on-time performance, become more efficient in producing capacity

00:15:54from our limited fleet, and improved accessibility for passengers with disabilities.

00:15:59Finally, we've continued upgrading our customer experience with refreshed equipment,

00:16:04improved customer communications, expanded dining options, better trained employees,

00:16:09and there's lots more to come. Driving all this is our ambitious goal of doubling ridership by 2040.

00:16:16As our nation's population grows, we believe passenger rail can and must play a bigger role.

00:16:23This goal underlies these investments, our partnerships with states like North Carolina

00:16:27and the Federal Railroad Administration, and our evaluation of potential public-private partnerships

00:16:32like the Texas Central High-Speed Rail Project. Increasing Amtrak ridership is so important

00:16:38because more Amtrak passengers mean less congestion on already overcrowded highways

00:16:44and less need to turn existing interstates into monster highways, 10 lanes or more. For instance,

00:16:51we all know how bad traffic is here to the south on I-95. Imagine how much worse it would be

00:16:56if the over 1.3 million passengers who rode state-supported Amtrak service along I-95 in

00:17:02Virginia last year had to drive. To grow, we will need to both improve existing service and expand

00:17:09service in states and corridors that we don't serve well, or even at all today. Our current

00:17:15route map largely reflects an America of 70 years ago. That's why Texas, now our second most populous

00:17:21state, has only five Amtrak trains a day. In Florida, our third most populous state, only has six

00:17:28compared to the small but mighty Rhode Island, which has 38 trains per day.

00:17:34Building enhanced partnerships with our state commuter and host railroad partners is key to

00:17:38this growth. Thankfully, IIJA funding has encouraged states and others to invest in intercity passenger

00:17:44rail and created new opportunities for win-win projects with our freight and commuter partners

00:17:49where we can improve safety, reliability, and capacity together for all users. In fact, much

00:17:55of the rail funding in the IIJA is not going to Amtrak. Nearly three-quarters of the FRA's

00:18:02National Network grants have gone to California High-Speed Rail and Brightline West projects,

00:18:06and two-thirds of the CRISI funds awarded last year went to shortline and regional railroads.

00:18:11Amtrak supports these investments because they will grow and improve the whole system,

00:18:16while we use our supplemental funding to address decades worth of underinvestment in fleet,

00:18:22stations, infrastructure, and systems. It's critical to remember, however, that Amtrak's

00:18:28IIJA supplemental funds don't cover basic operations and maintenance. It's essential

00:18:33that we continue to receive adequate annual appropriations to maintain our assets and

00:18:37continue serving your communities. Likewise, while the reauthorization of IIJA is still a couple

00:18:43years away, I want to state now how important it is that Congress continue to provide dedicated

00:18:49multi-year funding for rail. Without guaranteed funding provided by the IIJA, we simply couldn't

00:18:55make the progress we are accomplishing today. Sustained funding will allow intercity passenger

00:19:01rail to at last fulfill its potential to alleviate congestion, enhance mobility, and spur economic

00:19:07development throughout the nation. I'm thrilled to be part of this extraordinary time in Amtrak's

00:19:12history. I thank the members of this subcommittee, Mr. Chairman, for their support and for support of

00:19:18passenger rail. I look forward to answering your questions. Thank you, Mr. Gardner. I see you have a

00:19:23robust team here. I want to recognize Chief Dawson. It's good to see you again. We spent some time up

00:19:28in Milwaukee a month or two ago, and I just thank you for being here. I now recognize Mr. Kosha

00:19:34for five minutes. Good afternoon, Chairman Nells, Ranking Member Wilson, Ranking Member

00:19:41Larson, and members of the committee. I am Tony Kosha, the chairman of Amtrak's board of directors,

00:19:46on which I have served since 2010 and chaired since 2013. While I'm grateful for the invitation

00:19:53to speak to you today, it does sadden me not to see Congressman Donald Payne, a great member

00:19:58from the congressional district adjoining mine, and also a very good friend of mine.

00:20:03Amtrak's come a long way since 2010. We serve many more passengers, have become more efficient,

00:20:09and we're very mindful of our statutory directive to operate as a business while fulfilling our

00:20:14public service mission. The role of Amtrak's board is to set corporate policy and oversee Amtrak's

00:20:20management. We represent interests of the Amtrak stakeholders who include the federal taxpayers,

00:20:26customers, employees, and state partners. I hope we soon will have a full complement of board

00:20:31members to bring greater geographic diversity and additional perspectives and expertise.

00:20:37The board has played an active role in the implementation of measures that have materially

00:20:41improved Amtrak's financial reporting, accountability, and transparency. Amtrak

00:20:47has adopted expanded internal audit and compliance programs in an enterprise risk management system,

00:20:53new project controls, estimating functions, and at the board's direction we've enhanced

00:20:57our collaboration with Amtrak's Office of Inspector General. We now hold board sessions

00:21:03each year with the general public, labor unions representing our employees, the disability

00:21:08community, and other stakeholders, and we will begin next month holding meetings with our state

00:21:12partners. Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, or IIJA funding, for which we are very grateful,

00:21:19will allow Amtrak to make major capital investments, grow ridership, enhance safety,

00:21:25and build partnerships and increase our value throughout the nation. The IIJA has made

00:21:30accountability and transparency and the board's oversight responsibilities even more important.

00:21:36I believe that Amtrak and its board are well prepared to assume the additional responsibilities

00:21:41the IIJA has given us. One of the board's responsibilities is to set management

00:21:46compensation policies. I know there have been questions raised about Amtrak's management and

00:21:51center compensation program. That program, which bases a portion of managers' compensation on

00:21:57performance, was initiated in 2013 in response to a statutory recommendation and in conjunction

00:22:04with terminating Amtrak's very costly management pension and post-retirement benefit programs,

00:22:10which paid benefits regardless of Amtrak's performance. The management incentive program

00:22:17allowed the company to attract a stronger management team that significantly improved

00:22:21financial performance prior to the COVID-19 pandemic. As Amtrak emerged from the first

00:22:27year of the pandemic, during which we suspended our incentive program and imposed management

00:22:32salary cuts of up to 20 percent, the incentive program allowed us to rebuild our workforce

00:22:38and attract new employees with the expertise we needed. It bears noting that even with the

00:22:43potential management incentive payments, Amtrak employees, particularly those at the senior level,

00:22:49generally earn much less than their counterparts in the freight railroad and other industries

00:22:54with which Amtrak competes for talent. That said, I am aware of the bills that were introduced

00:23:00yesterday regarding transparency around executive compensation. The Board supports releasing the

00:23:06details of our pay for performance plan, including the awards to executives, as we have done on the

00:23:12past. That information will be posted on Amtrak's website this week. If Amtrak didn't have the

00:23:19workforce required to manage and support multiple multi-billion dollar capital projects, it would

00:23:24have to rely on high-priced consultants to do that for us. Having chaired the Port Authority of

00:23:30New York and New Jersey while we were rebuilding Lower Manhattan after 9-11, I can attest that

00:23:36relying on consultants would be much more costly and would greatly increase project risks, as the

00:23:41experience of rail and transit projects overly dependent on consultants has demonstrated.

00:23:48Those of us who live in the Northeast Corridor are very fortunate. Because of federal investment,

00:23:52someone traveling from Washington to northern New Jersey, where I live, doesn't have to spend hours

00:23:57in traffic along I-95 or make their way to the airport to line up for security and sit in long

00:24:02queues of planes awaiting for takeoff. Instead, I can hop on a train at Union Station, work without

00:24:09interruption, and in less than three hours be dropped off 200 miles away near my home. I believe that

00:24:16those who live in other parts of the United States should have that same benefit. When Congress

00:24:20reauthorizes surface transportation, I hope you will decide that intercity passenger rail service

00:24:26should be an important travel mode throughout the United States and will provide the resources to

00:24:31allow Amtrak and our partners to make that reality, to make that vision a reality. Thank

00:24:36you again for your time. I'm happy to answer any of your questions. Thank you, Mr. Kosher.

00:24:44I'd like to now recognize Ms. Foshee to introduce our next witness.

00:24:48Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It gives me great pleasure to introduce one of our witnesses

00:24:54here today from my home state, the North Carolina Department of Transportation's Deputy Secretary

00:24:59for Multimodal Transportation, Julie White. It is great to see you again, Ms. White.

00:25:06There have been a number of exciting developments and investments of late

00:25:10in North Carolina's passenger rail systems, so I think it's very timely to have you here

00:25:16before this committee today. I look forward to hearing more about the work that North Carolina,

00:25:22the North Carolina Department of Transportation is doing to make rail travel more affordable

00:25:28and accessible for the folks back home and how they are partnering with Amtrak to do so.

00:25:34It is also my sincere hope that this might prove to be an opportunity for others to learn from the

00:25:41great strides we in the Tar Heel State are making in passenger rail. My colleagues and I on this

00:25:48committee are so thankful that you're here and a part of this hearing today, Deputy Secretary,

00:25:53and we greatly look forward to your testimony. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

00:25:59Ms. White, you are recognized for five minutes.

00:26:04Good afternoon and thank you. Thank you, Congresswoman. Thank you, Chairman Nels,

00:26:08Ranking Member Wilson, Ranking Member Larson, and all the members of the subcommittee for

00:26:12holding this hearing to discuss passenger rail as an integral part of our national

00:26:16transportation system. As the Congresswoman said, my name is Julie White and I'm the Deputy

00:26:21Secretary for Multimodal Transportation at the North Carolina Department of Transportation,

00:26:26where I oversee our rail, aviation, ferry, public transit, bicycle, and pedestrian divisions.

00:26:32I also chair the Southeast Corridor Commission, a regional rail partnership whose cooperation

00:26:37is advancing our shared vision for high-performance rail throughout the southeast mega region.

00:26:42I want to thank Congress for its support of the bipartisan infrastructure law,

00:26:46which has significantly advanced our rail investments. North Carolina has received

00:26:51several CRICI grants, a $1 billion federal-state partnership construction grant, and short-line

00:26:57grants supporting economic development in rural western and central North Carolina.

00:27:02We are grateful for the bipartisan support we have received for our federal competitive grant

00:27:06applications from both state elected leaders and our congressional delegation.

00:27:11Rail is the only mode that does not enjoy formulaic federal funding, meaning projects

00:27:16often languish on shelves awaiting the right competitive federal grant opportunity,

00:27:21resulting in decades-long waits for new service and expired environmental documents.

00:27:26The bipartisan infrastructure law offers a once-in-a-generation opportunity to demonstrate

00:27:30how your substantial investment can change this trajectory and set a different course for the

00:27:35future. Passenger ridership in North Carolina is at an all-time high, with 2023 state-supported

00:27:43service ridership 38 percent higher than pre-pandemic levels in 2019. We continue to see

00:27:49an upward trajectory, with a 24 percent higher volume in the first quarter of 2024 as compared

00:27:54to 2023. Tomorrow, our Open Express train will depart Raleigh Union Station to travel for the

00:28:01first time all the way to Pinehurst, North Carolina, bringing attendees to the United

00:28:05States Gulf Association's U.S. Open. We have sold out all four train trips, further demonstrating

00:28:13the unmet demand for service to new destinations in our state. Communities in North Carolina

00:28:19actively sought the submission of 12 existing rail corridors to the Federal Rail Administration's

00:28:24Corridor Identification Development Pipeline Program, and we are pleased to share that

00:28:29North Carolina received a record seven corridors into the program. We can now provide local

00:28:34government strong estimates of how much non-federal match will be needed to advance the corridors,

00:28:39allowing them to budget accordingly. Predictable pathways allow local communities to better

00:28:44communicate plans to citizens and galvanize and maintain the support needed to lift such

00:28:49large-scale, decades-long projects. With consistent, robust, reliable, and sufficient Federal Rail

00:28:56funding and non-federal match, we could potentially see service across our state from

00:29:00Asheville to Wilmington by 2035. The NCDOT has developed a highly successful partnership with

00:29:08small and rural communities to advance multimodal projects. The NCDOT contributes our technical

00:29:13expertise. We develop the Federal grant applications and administer the Federal funds,

00:29:18while the local community works with consultants to design the rail and transit future and provides

00:29:22the needed non-federal matching funds. Through these partnerships, we have jointly secured

00:29:27transit-oriented development planning grants and the funding to advance rail station mobility huts

00:29:32through feasibility study, NEPA documentation, and preliminary design. The Raleigh to Richmond

00:29:38project along the S line is a key initiative, reducing travel time between Raleigh and Richmond

00:29:43by an hour and providing a car-competitive trip between Raleigh and Washington, D.C.

00:29:48At full build-out, we estimate our annual ridership will climb to 2.5 million riders.

00:29:53We anticipate our first groundbreaking this summer and will apply for future grants to

00:29:58continue construction north. As we all know, planning and building infrastructure takes too

00:30:03long. Through regular, reliable rail funding formulas, we could significantly shorten the

00:30:08time it takes to put the investment in the ground as we would be able to program projects earlier

00:30:13and reduce the need for the months-long agreements phase. NCDOT has a strong history

00:30:18of obligating and spending billions of federal dollars through formula programs, as do many

00:30:22other states. Streamlining the discretionary process to enable similar approvals would be

00:30:26beneficial to all stakeholders. The Southeast Corridor Commission and the State of North

00:30:31Carolina remain committed to partnering with Congress, our freight rail partners, Amtrak,

00:30:35the FRA, and others to expand freight and passenger rail in the Southeast. Continued

00:30:40strong investment in rail in the next reauthorization will enable us to continue to

00:30:45meet the transportation needs of North Carolinians in all parts of our state, assist communities in

00:30:50growing their economic vitality, and provide more opportunities for the next generation to remain

00:30:55in the communities they grew up in. Thank you for the opportunity to address the subcommittee.

00:31:01Thank you, Ms. White, and thank you all for your testimony. We will now turn to questions

00:31:06for the panel, and I will recognize myself for five minutes. Mr. Garner, again, thank you for

00:31:12being here. My question is related to the government in the Sunshine Act, which was

00:31:18created to promote and improve transparency and decision-making in the government. Under this law,

00:31:24agency meetings must generally be open to the public. The Supreme Court recognized Amtrak's

00:31:31federal status and found in DOT v. American Association of Railroads that Amtrak was

00:31:36created by the government, is controlled by the government, and operates for the government's

00:31:43benefit. Given Amtrak's federal status, why has Amtrak continued to violate the Sunshine Act?

00:31:51Thank you, Chairman Nelson. I believe that Amtrak in the 90s, through a series of work with

00:32:01our council and others, determined that the Sunshine Act itself didn't apply to Amtrak at

00:32:05that time. As you've said, we are certainly an entity owned by the federal government, but we're

00:32:12a corporation established under the D.C. Corporate Act. So we certainly could get back to you on the

00:32:17specifics there about the application of that statute. Certainly, as the chairman said, we

00:32:23intend and we have been following the recent changes in the IIJA to engage the public and have

00:32:30more public input with the board meetings. You know, just getting you, you know, to commit to,

00:32:34you know, implementing some measures that will bring you into compliance with it is what we're

00:32:38asking. It's just get into compliance with the Sunshine Act. I don't think it's that difficult

00:32:42to do. Okay, well, we certainly can look at that again. I think that the issue applies to the

00:32:48governance of the company. We can take it. Yeah, everything's about transparency. We know that

00:32:52how important it is. So, Mr. Kosha, how would that transparency measures required under the

00:32:58Sunshine Act improve the operation of Amtrak's Board of Directors, and will you commit

00:33:03to complying with federal requirements for your board meetings? Well, without adding to the

00:33:09sort of need to analyze it from a legal standpoint, which Mr. Gardner has committed to doing, and

00:33:17my recollection of the application of the Sunshine Law at Amtrak is in line with what Mr. Gardner

00:33:23just mentioned. But on a more important point, the board feels as though the level of request

00:33:30for transparency as to the board's deliberations and the operations of the company is actually a

00:33:36very, very positive thing. We embrace it. We very much welcome the opportunity, as we now have in

00:33:42the last year, to have several meetings in the public. Our meeting in Richmond was very well

00:33:46attended by the general public. Meetings we've had with the disability community, with our labor

00:33:51unions, all of them have been in the context of a board session, including those constituent

00:33:58groups. And as I mentioned during my testimony, we're doing that with the states beginning next

00:34:02month. In addition to that, myself and several of our board members have made a point of engaging

00:34:08different stakeholder groups that are very engaged with Amtrak on a individual level in order to be

00:34:14able to hear more of their concerns. I've had conversations within the past day, and we are

00:34:19with the RPA, which you know represents the largest group of our passengers. And we've

00:34:26discussed a number of initiatives that we can do jointly to create a greater level of interaction

00:34:30between our stakeholder community, our board, and the company generally. And the RPA can

00:34:36certainly speak for themselves, but I think they're very supportive of that effort. I would

00:34:40like to hear from Ms. White on this from a state's perspective about just being more open, transparent

00:34:45Amtrak's decision-making. We were appreciative of being included in the board meeting in Richmond

00:34:52in December and appreciated the opportunity to share our story there. Transparency is foundational

00:34:57in the state of North Carolina, so we support what Amtrak is doing to become more transparent.

00:35:02Yeah, last one for Mr. Garner here. In 2016, Amtrak awarded the $2.45 billion federal loan to procure

00:35:09these train sets for the Acela, which was on last month by the way, so I helped contribute to your

00:35:14record month, right? May 2024, the most revenue? Is that what it was? Well, I'm part of that. However, to

00:35:20date, these train sets are still not in service. According to reports from Amtrak OIG, these train

00:35:26sets were produced in manufacturers before they could verify that they were safe to run on the

00:35:31Northeast Corridor. So I don't know why Amtrak agrees to build train sets before getting the

00:35:36safety model validated and approved by the FRA. I think you kind of mentioned it in your opening,

00:35:42but when can we expect the new Acela train sets to enter into service? Well, thank you, Chairman

00:35:48Nels. So you're right that we have been working with Alstom, the manufacturer, for quite a while

00:35:54here on these trains, and they are in test right now. Our hope is that by the end of the year,

00:35:59they could be in service around that period. That will depend on the testing work, but I would say

00:36:03that when we went out to bid for these trains, they're of course not a domestic high-speed rail

00:36:11industry here at the time. We had a competitive procurement, and we went through a brand new

00:36:16regulatory process established by the FRA, which had required trains to be built, prototype trains

00:36:22to be built, and additional trains to be made, and then tested both in dynamic test and using

00:36:27simulation and model. So that is underway and is following all the requirements of the FRA.

00:36:33It's really Alstom's job to finish this testing and get the train certified. We're anxious, of

00:36:38course, to have that happen because, as you say, the ridership is going well, and we wish we had

00:36:42more trains available today. We are working hard to make that happen and hold our partners

00:36:48accountable in the process. Thank you. I yield back and now recognize Ms. Wilson for five minutes.

00:36:54Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is for Ms. White. The American Association of State Highway and

00:37:02Transportation Officials and the States for Passenger Rail Coalition recently sent a joint

00:37:08letter to our appropriations colleagues in support of the President's recommendation to set aside

00:37:16funds from the CRISE program for state rail planning efforts since there is no dedicated

00:37:23federal funding source for rail planning. Ms. White, do you support this effort?

00:37:32Thank you for the question. Yes, we are members of AASHTO and we do support the position.

00:37:37Mr. Chairman, I'd like to ask for unanimous consent to add that letter. Without objection.

00:37:44Ms. White, what is North Carolina doing to reduce grade crossing incidents between

00:37:52cars and pedestrians with passenger and freight trains?

00:37:58Our rail division has responsibility for safety as part of our portfolio, so we have a number of

00:38:04programs aimed at reducing vehicle and train and pedestrian conflicts. Our S-Line corridor that

00:38:12we're developing from Raleigh North is actually going to be a sealed corridor. It's a concept

00:38:17that we pioneered some years ago where the entire corridor will be grade separated, and so that is

00:38:23one example of what we're doing. We have an active program to close grade crossings throughout

00:38:29the state, and we help fund those programs as well. We have a Be Rail Safe program where we do

00:38:36education to try and encourage people not to trespass and be where the tracks are,

00:38:41so we have a very active safety portfolio in our rail division. Thank you.

00:38:47Thank you. This is for Mr. Gardner. Mr. Gardner, what can you tell me about when Amtrak will be

00:38:57able to serve the Miami Intermodal Center at Miami Airport? Thank you, Congresswoman. The

00:39:06Miami International Airport Intermodal Center at the airport has been a project

00:39:12long underway, and it involves us transitioning from our Ohio facility to that facility.

00:39:19We're in active conversations with FDOT and also the Miami-Dade Airport Authority and TriRail,

00:39:26who are responsible for both the infrastructure and the station. We've been in negotiations for

00:39:33a while to try and establish the right terms of access. Amtrak has access as a matter of statute

00:39:38to the facility, so we're in negotiations presently with FDOT to try and come up with

00:39:45a deal that works for all parties here and allows Amtrak to move over so we can terminate our trains

00:39:53at that facility. It's important that we have an efficient facility there that can continue

00:40:00to serve passengers well. We think the connections intermodally are great, but we remain in

00:40:06negotiations with FDOT so we can get the right deal for Amtrak in terms of its tenancy.

00:40:14Thank you. Ms. White, North Carolina received one of the Federal-State Partnership for Intercity

00:40:20Rail National Grants for the Raleigh-Richmond Center. Why did you choose this corridor to

00:40:25submit to the program? Congresswoman, I want to be sure I understood the question. Did you say

00:40:33the submission for the Federal-State Partnership Grant or for the Corridor ID Program? Federal-State

00:40:37Partnership Grant. When the competitive grant opportunities open up, we analyze them as

00:40:45compared to the projects that we have in our pipeline to determine which we think will be the

00:40:49most competitive and which we have a match for. For the S line, we use grade separations in our

00:40:56State Transportation Improvement Program as match to the federal funds. So we had a number of those

00:41:01grade separations already programmed in our State Transportation Improvement Program.

00:41:06Additionally, we felt with the benefit-cost analysis that it would be a highly competitive

00:41:11project. We're doing it in partnership with the State of Virginia and with Amtrak, and we know

00:41:16that advancing projects in the Southeast Corridor is important to the Federal Rail Administration.

00:41:21So we felt it would be a highly competitive project. Additionally, we have an incredible

00:41:26amount of groundswell of support from the communities along the S line. When we first

00:41:32started thinking about bringing passenger rail back to the S line, we went and met with each

00:41:36community along the line and asked them if that was something that would interest them. It runs

00:41:41through the main street of many towns in the Triangle area, and each of them had said that

00:41:47that was a goal for their community, to bring passenger rail back. So that was part of our

00:41:52process in determining that that was our best project to put forward. Thank you. General Lady

00:41:59yields. I now recognize the ranking member of the full committee, Mr. Larson, for five minutes.

00:42:10Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that. First question is really for Mr. Kosha. Congratulations

00:42:16on your recent reconfirmation. I've heard some concerns that Amtrak's board is overly focused

00:42:23on the Northeast Corridor, the apologies from my friends in the Northeast Corridor, at the expense

00:42:27of the national network. Can you characterize Amtrak board's view on long-distance trains and

00:42:38getting a long-distance network? Thank you. Thank you, Ranking Member, for that question.

00:42:43And I actually welcome the opportunity to speak about this, which I often do,

00:42:49because given the fact that I'm actually from the Northeast Corridor and have had a career there,

00:42:54that there's an assumption made about my position on the subject, as well as several of my fellow

00:42:59board members. And I think I can say, I'd like to say without any equivocation whatsoever,

00:43:05that I and our board are very, very much committed to the national network. And in fact, we've made

00:43:11many decisions during the course of our board's work together to make significant investments in

00:43:18acquiring additional equipment and upgrading state of good repair. And we've recently, as I think was

00:43:24mentioned, issued an RFP to completely replace the fleet on the long-distance corridor. But I think

00:43:30far more fundamental to it is that our view and our hope for Amtrak's future is to build a national

00:43:36network that uses our existing long-distance system as essentially the spine upon which we

00:43:42build that. We see that as the anchor that gives us the ability to serve many communities throughout

00:43:47the country that don't have service today. And we also are very much aware of the fact that the

00:43:52communities that we serve in the national network, in many respects, we are their only form of

00:43:57transportation. There isn't an airport that can be easily utilized. The bus systems have abandoned

00:44:02them a long time ago. And many of our travelers don't have access to an automobile as well.

00:44:08So we know that from an economic driver standpoint and from a mobility standpoint,

00:44:13our work in those communities is absolutely fundamental. So we are, as a board, 100 percent

00:44:18committed to the maintenance of our national network and, frankly, the expansion of it.

00:44:23And I think we put our resources behind that kind of initiative and expect to continue to do so.

00:44:29Thank you. Deputy Secretary White, what lessons can other states take from your work

00:44:36to develop support for passenger rail? Do you have a top three for us to consider?

00:44:43Top three. Well, let's start with that local community support. We really start with an

00:44:49approach of a partnership. If it is not a goal of a community and they aren't willing to do a match,

00:44:56then we're going to work with the different communities. Get in the game, I would say,

00:45:00is number two. All of these grant opportunities to bring passenger rail require a match. And so

00:45:06we like communities that are willing to take a tough vote and put their budget behind the project.

00:45:11And then I'd say the third key success for us is the NCDOT's expertise.

00:45:18Applying for and administering federal funds is an incredibly complex thing to do.

00:45:23And small and mid-sized towns do not have the staff to be able to do that. And so I think

00:45:30what we are most proud of is the partnership that we have created with these communities,

00:45:33where we bring that expertise, we ensure they stay between the guardrails,

00:45:37but they decide what that investment looks like in their community.

00:45:41Thanks. Mr. Gardner, with apologies for the pun, to keep this engine running for Amtrak,

00:45:50as well as for state-supported systems, can you talk, can you help us understand how the

00:45:57FRA's Corridor ID grants are meshing with Amtrak's investments, both state-supported as well as

00:46:06Amtrak directly? Yes, thank you, Ranking Member Larson. The Corridor ID program by FRA is really

00:46:14the pipeline of development for expansion, the type of expansion that Deputy Secretary White

00:46:20mentioned is happening and planned to happen in North Carolina, that our chairman just mentioned.

00:46:25It's really the pathway, similar to the FTA Capital Investment Grant Program or New Starts,

00:46:31that establishes, with the guidance of the federal government, the development of this network. And

00:46:37Amtrak's role in that is to be a partner to FRA and a partner to states like North Carolina who are

00:46:44looking at options and ideas and opportunities for passenger rail. And I think, you know, I take

00:46:51your point, Chairman Nels, that we need to, of course, take care of the network we have, but we're

00:46:56responding to the overwhelming interest across America to see more passenger trains in different

00:47:02communities. And so we're trying to support that while also driving our business and improving

00:47:07in all the dimensions that we can. I think our investments are really in two common, in sort of

00:47:15two buckets. One is this IIJ supplemental funds that's really letting us bring all of our old

00:47:19assets sort of out of the 20th century and drag them into the 21st. And then this annual appropriations

00:47:27that you mentioned is so key to keeping our current services going and allowing us to partner

00:47:32with states for modernization. Because the IIJ funds that come to Amtrak aren't for expansion,

00:47:37they aren't to grow capacity, they're really to rebuild that old sort of core asset base. So we

00:47:42need those annual funds and we need the funds that the FRA is providing to our state partners and

00:47:46others to keep developing this network and look for the opportunities, recognizing that, you know,

00:47:51some opportunities are nearer and some are in the distance, but passenger rail can play a much

00:47:55bigger role in mobility in the United States and we think it must. Thank you. Thanks, Chair.

00:48:00Thank you. The gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. Rausser for five minutes.

00:48:05I thank the Chairman. Ms. White, I'm going to start with you. Thank you so much for being here

00:48:09and appreciate the work that you do for North Carolina. So in your role, you oversee the rail

00:48:14division as well as the aviation and ferry divisions and I want to take the opportunity

00:48:19to talk to you a little bit about the ferry system, which is the second largest in the country.

00:48:25Are there things that Congress can do in terms of reforms to federal programs,

00:48:30such as the rural ferry program, that would be a benefit?

00:48:34Thank you, Congressman, so much for the question. I love talking about ferries at the Railroad

00:48:38Subcommittee. We do run- I am Chairman of Water Resources, so I have a little leeway here.

00:48:45We do run our own transit system. We do run in North Carolina a ferry system serving eastern

00:48:50North Carolina. It is a $74 million a year operation with 23 vessels and eight routes,

00:48:56including a seasonal one. And so we are incredibly proud of running that system.

00:49:00And thank you for the support that Congress did in creating the Rural Ferry Capital Program. It's

00:49:06a $20 million a year competitive grant program. We are very grateful to be able to compete for

00:49:11that fund. It is incredibly oversubscribed. To build a vessel costs us, depending on the type

00:49:17of vessel, anywhere from $30 to $50 million. So competing in a $20 million pot is incredibly

00:49:22difficult. So we would very much appreciate consideration of additional resources to the

00:49:28Rural Ferry Capital Program. Also, there are some mileage requirements on what allows you to compete

00:49:35in the bigger pot of money that could be considered maybe expanded to allow more ferry systems to

00:49:40compete within them. Thank you so much for the question. And talk just a little bit about how

00:49:46the ferry system is so critical during hurricanes and other natural disasters,

00:49:51like we often have in North Carolina. That is so true. Thinking back to Hurricane Dorian,

00:49:57the Ferry Division evacuated nearly 1,500 people and over 750 vehicles from Ocracoke Island

00:50:04during the Hurricane Dorian lead into the storm. And then after the storm, we were the first

00:50:09responders bringing over the necessary assistance to rebuild the dump trucks, hauling off the trash.

00:50:17We bring the gas. We bring the water. So it was a many months long effort of our team coordinating

00:50:23with Hyde County to do disaster response after Hurricane Dorian. We unfortunately are seeing more

00:50:29and more substantial weather at our coast. We now have on Highway 12 what we call sunny day storms.

00:50:37We will have complete water overwash on a sunny day on Highway 12. So we are very much a critical

00:50:44lifeline to the island, to our poorest county in the state, which needs to pull in its tax revenues

00:50:52in the summer to support the county year long. Thank you much. Mr. Gardner, now back to rail.

00:50:58And I don't mean this as an antagonistic question whatsoever, so don't take it that way,

00:51:02but has Amtrak ever turned a profit in a year? No, sir. I think that's why the issue of bonuses

00:51:11and incentive pay is so touchy and particularly given the dollar amount. So what's the prospects?

00:51:20What's the timeline where you think we can get to a point where we can turn a profit?

00:51:26Well, Congressman, I think first off, the sort of yardstick for measuring Amtrak

00:51:31and our performance is set forth in statute. It's really a balance of both financial performance

00:51:36and efficiency. I got that. I got that. So we're trying to do both those things.

00:51:42Before the pandemic, we were essentially about to be a breakeven. We lost all our business. We're

00:51:46working back to get there now. Our goal is in the next several years on the train operating

00:51:51side of the business. So sort of same stores to pre-pandemic. We expect to break even towards

00:51:57the end of this decade, and we're working hard to achieve that. We are facing many significantly

00:52:05expanded costs. So while our revenues are back and above pre-pandemic levels, our cost structure

00:52:09is about 30 to 40 percent higher depending on the area. So we're working hard there, but we're

00:52:14growing revenue. We're going to reduce losses this year. We'll keep reducing losses every year and

00:52:19work back towards getting as efficient as we can while driving as much value and service to the

00:52:24American people. In my last 40 seconds here, you recently testified regarding Amtrak's desire to

00:52:30purchase and manage Union Station. You indicated your plan was to transform the station from the

00:52:36current mixed-use retail restaurant and transit hub to a sole-purpose passenger holding center.

00:52:43You know, one thing I'm a little concerned about here, we have a homeless issue there now.

00:52:49You take all those stores out, you take the mixed-use out. Number one, where are we getting

00:52:54the funding to do all this? And are you concerned that it's just going to be a much greater magnet

00:52:59for the homeless? It's a beautiful building. Absolutely, a beautiful building, Congressman,

00:53:04and our intention actually is to enhance and maintain the retail, but better amenities. As

00:53:12you know right now, it's about half empty because of all the folks that have left during that period.

00:53:17Amtrak doesn't have possession of the building yet, but our goal is, in fact, to do what you just

00:53:21described, create a lively mixed-use environment which supports all the transportation users.

00:53:27The big issue is that Amtrak was sort of sequestered in the back. We've more than

00:53:30doubled the ridership since we have this little leasehold in the back of the station. The main

00:53:35part of the building wasn't used for passenger transportation, even though we have MARC service

00:53:40and VRE service and WMATA. So we're just talking about using more of the building to serve the

00:53:44needs of the passengers while also creating a great community amenity and a place that millions

00:53:49of people come to visit every year from all over the United States when they come to visit this

00:53:53building and Washington. So we believe very much in a successful venture that will drive both

00:54:00commercial revenue so we can reinvest in the facility and also the kind of amenities that

00:54:06people want in our train station. So they want the bookstores, they want to be able to go to the cafe,

00:54:10they want a restaurant, and we want to serve the neighborhood well. Thank you, Mr. Chairman,

00:54:14my time's expired. All right, thank you. I now recognize Mr. Moulton for five minutes.

00:54:19Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I would like to pick up where my colleague Mr. Rausser left

00:54:24off about Amtrak profitability. It's also how you opened your remarks, Mr. Chairman,

00:54:30about profitability. And I just want to ask, why when we have hearings on highways

00:54:36do we not open the hearings by saying why are our interstate highways not profitable?

00:54:43Why have they cost the American taxpayer billions of dollars a year to maintain billions of dollars

00:54:47in broader costs to society like the 40,000 Americans who die on our highways every year,

00:54:53and it's taxpayer dollars that clean up every one of those messes.

00:54:57It's taxpayer dollars that built the highways, hundreds of billions of dollars. Amtrak got none

00:55:03of that. Taxpayer dollars didn't build our railways. And yet we don't have a problem

00:55:10with the fact that the interstate highway system doesn't make a profit. Or why not open hearings

00:55:14on airlines by saying how much would our airlines make in profits if they had to pay for security,

00:55:22if they had to pay for air traffic control? They barely squeeze a profit, as it is, in fact,

00:55:28the United States taxpayer has bailed out our airlines multiple times in the last 20 years

00:55:34to the tunes of tens of billions of dollars, and we don't ask them how they could be profitable if

00:55:40they didn't have subsidies. So there's a huge double standard here. And the fact that Mr.

00:55:47Gardner can even talk about approaching profitability, something that we wouldn't

00:55:51even discuss with our highways, is pretty remarkable, and it points to the innate efficiency

00:55:58of rail. Now, to emphasize my bipartisan credentials here, I also have a little

00:56:04critique of what the ranking member said, because when she brought up grade crossing accidents,

00:56:09we talked about how this is a problem for the railroads, and this is a concern that

00:56:14railroads have. Ms. White talked about how the rail division is responsible

00:56:18for grade crossing accidents in North Carolina. Let's be clear, every one of these accidents

00:56:24is a highway traveler breaking the law, with very, very, very, very few exceptions,

00:56:30with malfunctioning equipment. This is lawbreakers getting killed by trains, delaying train passengers.

00:56:37I wish we could have a discussion about how we reduce the delays to rail passengers every time

00:56:42there's one of these accidents. That's what we should be talking about, and we should be talking

00:56:46about how we use highway funds to address accidents caused by highway travelers,

00:56:52not just pin this blame on the railroads. Now, Ms. White, I want to turn to you for a second

00:57:00to talk about your plans in North Carolina. You mentioned a goal of service from Wilmington to

00:57:05Asheville, a distance of 330 miles, currently a five-hour and 45-minute drive. That's made

00:57:11possible, of course. It would be a much longer drive, but it's made possible by state and federal

00:57:16dollars that went into building those highways. What travel time would you expect for this quarter?

00:57:22Thank you for the question. Each of those corridors has been admitted into the quarter

00:57:27ID program, so we're really... I'm just asking a simple question. What travel time do you expect?

00:57:31I don't have that answer at this point. Okay, well, any other developed country in the world

00:57:34would do about two hours and 20 minutes, or under two hours for express service,

00:57:38because they would invest in true high-speed rail. I mean, Morocco is investing in true

00:57:42high-speed rail. Your much-touted S line will go 110 miles per hour, the same speed as trains in

00:57:48the 1920s, and exactly half the speed of new lines in Europe, less than half the speed of

00:57:55new lines in China. Is North Carolina planning to build any new state or federal highways with

00:58:01a top speed of 35 miles per hour, half the speed of current highways? We are not. Okay. Are you

00:58:08planning to build any new international airports that only accept prop planes, the technology that

00:58:14was taking off in the 1920s, when we had 110-mile-per-hour trains in America?

00:58:23I assume the answer is no. We are not. You said the trip from Washington, D.C. to Raleigh

00:58:29will be car competitive. I guess that's four hours, 30 minutes to five hours. Again, just to put this

00:58:36in perspective, any other developed country in the world would make that an hour and 45 minutes,

00:58:41express trains an hour and a half. That would be transformative. That would actually get a lot of

00:58:46people out of our airports and off our highways. That's what our goal should be. I mean, my point

00:58:54to you is that as you're building this, please look at what the rest of the world is doing.

00:59:00Look at the model of the TGV in France, where any new corridors they build are built to modern

00:59:06high-speed rail standards. Now, you have that opportunity because some of the S line

00:59:10was abandoned, and so you're building a new corridor. The parts that are already existing,

00:59:16sometimes TGV trains slow down to go slower on those segments. But do not, please do not,

00:59:22invest good taxpayer money into technology appropriate for the 1920s instead of the 2020s.

00:59:30Mr. Chairman, I believe that even you would be a great Amtrak passenger rail supporter

00:59:36if we invested in modern high-speed rail and not trains that we had 100 years ago.

00:59:42Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.

00:59:45The gentleman yields and I'll recognize Mr. LaMalfa for five minutes.

00:59:51Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In my home state of California, I'll direct this to Mr. Gardner,

00:59:58our high-speed rail project went from a projected

01:00:01ballot item that told the taxpayers it would be a $33 billion project to go from

01:00:07SF to LA and be completed by the year 2020.

01:00:13And a good portion of that above the $9 billion bond portion that the voters voted on,

01:00:19the rest would be from private investments, you know, attracting private investments.

01:00:24So, so far the private investors have stayed away in droves.

01:00:29The $9 billion has been burned up and the projected cost is instead of $33 billion is at least $128

01:00:38billion. And there hasn't been a mile of actual track laid yet other than some of the roadbed that

01:00:46has been put down and some of the bridges. They also at the time claimed that there'd be a million

01:00:51jobs up until, you know, a couple of years after the ballot measure. Then they finally had to admit

01:00:56a million job years, which at the present number they tout of 13,000 workers. The math I did would

01:01:06say if you have a million job years divided by 13,000 workers, it'll take 76 years to build the

01:01:11project, which they're right on track for that at this point here. So this would be at least 2030

01:01:17something before they get one of these segments done. So, Mr. Gardner, how could they be so far

01:01:26off on an initial business plan that they told the voters, the taxpayers in 2008 to what we have now,

01:01:36where there's nowhere near $128 billion. They might be able to put their hands on $20 billion

01:01:42when they do carbon taxing and they just filched another $3 billion out of the federal government

01:01:48here recently. So, you know, when they're 100 billion short, where are they going to get that?

01:01:53And how could they be so far off on a plan? They didn't even have the route figured out

01:01:57before they put this in front of the voters.

01:02:02Well, Congressman, certainly Amtrak's, as you know, not been involved in the High Speed Project

01:02:09or its original development. We are supportive of advancing high speed and similar to

01:02:16Congressman Walton's point, you know, we think there is a real role for high speed in various

01:02:22markets in the United States and California certainly has incredible markets and huge demand

01:02:26and real challenges in terms of mobility. But I think the main issue and something we've learned

01:02:31and an issue that's also faced Amtrak is that quite often because there hasn't been the apparatus to

01:02:37fund or develop early planning phases for good ideas, when folks are trying to sort of develop

01:02:45concepts for these systems, which I think could create a lot of value, they're doing so before

01:02:51we've gone through the standard preliminary engineering design NEPA processes that really

01:02:56do set the envelope of cost and schedule. What did you just say for the last 40 seconds there?

01:03:02What did you just actually say right then? So that one of the challenges when doing big

01:03:08projects is the amount of planning and the time for planning to get the project developed. And so

01:03:15what happened in California is really I think the California high speed team could explain the

01:03:21process. But I would say that for any project to really a big project to be something that folks

01:03:26can understand in terms of estimating cost and time, you've got to go through this environmental

01:03:30process and the environmental process and the planning process are really what set out the

01:03:35possible envelope. So you asked me what happened from their initial estimates to now. If you have

01:03:40an idea how a plan could be that far off and we have bigger plans going forward. Let me talk about

01:03:46a more local one. Dunsmuir, California up in my district used to have a twice a day connection

01:03:53there during the pandemic as they call it was all halted. So now there's only one a day. You have

01:04:00to catch it around somewhere between 1 a.m. or 4 a.m. depending. So the local economy and this is

01:04:06just one typical rural town that rural areas are some of the least utilized service routes

01:04:12and they have much more interruptions. So with Amtrak setting forward to do very optimistic work,

01:04:21how are we going to see that the rural areas are going to have any share of this that's going to

01:04:26be significant instead of being the tail end of the whole system? Well Congressman, we've got our

01:04:36Coast Starlight service is serving Dunsmuir and the other several stops in your district and

01:04:43and there is also supplemental bus service that serves some of the stations. Chico and

01:04:53I think up to Redding as well that's funded by the state of California in partnership with Amtrak,

01:05:01the connecting bus service. So I think maybe the change in service is the bus service levels but

01:05:06we believe as you heard from our chairman in investing in this national network right now

01:05:11the big changes that are happening are new fleet coming to better serve communities like Dunsmuir

01:05:17and investments across all the stations so that we have accessible stations and also stations that

01:05:23are ready. Thank you. I have to cut you off there due to time but new fleet isn't going to change

01:05:28the fact that there's no trains running through there and that we don't have the model be

01:05:37successful out there with passenger rail. It seems the freight has to somehow keep railroads

01:05:43in business. So with that I'm way through time. Thank you Mr. Chairman. I'll yield back. Thank

01:05:47you. I now recognize Ms. Foshee for five minutes. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Deputy Secretary White,

01:05:54as I'm sure you're aware, Seamus Mobility recently announced a new plan in Lexington,

01:05:59North Carolina to manufacture and maintain train sets. From your perspective at NCDOT,

01:06:06what will the impact of this new facility be for our state and how has the guaranteed passenger

01:06:12rail funding from the bipartisan infrastructure law influenced or leveraged business investment

01:06:19in our state? Thank you for the question. So Seamus Mobility broke ground on their new plan

01:06:28in August of 2023. It'll be a 220 million dollar facility in Lexington, North Carolina

01:06:34that will create more than 500 jobs by 2028 and is estimated to grow the state's economy

01:06:40by 1.6 billion dollars over the next 12 years. They sought to build a large-scale manufacturing

01:06:47facility on the east coast because of all of the orders for new inner city passenger rail cars.

01:06:54We are very excited for the state of North Carolina to see the supply chain that will grow

01:06:59around that investment, bringing even further jobs and opportunity to North Carolina.

01:07:03And we're excited to see those trains roll out of North Carolina, made plant up and down the

01:07:10eastern seaboard, including when our new trains arrive in North Carolina. Thank you. Thank you

01:07:14for that. And thanks to the bipartisan infrastructure law, North Carolina received seven corridor ID

01:07:21grant awards last year. How do you anticipate this funding improving North Carolina's ability

01:07:28to invest in and accelerate the development of passenger rail in our state?

01:07:35So corridor ID is really important because a community needs, as Stephen had said, the

01:07:43community needs to understand what is a project going to cost. The corridor ID's first step

01:07:48initially unlocks $500,000 worth of planning funds so that we can start to work with communities to

01:07:53define what the service outcomes are that they would like to see and what the infrastructure

01:07:57investments will be that are needed to make that happen. So with each of our communities that have

01:08:02been admitted into the corridor ID program, we're now meeting with them to understand what is the

01:08:07kind of service outcomes that they would like to see, what is the match that they will need at what

01:08:12time in this process. I would give as an example, when we were meeting with the community of

01:08:18Fayetteville recently, they are very excited to have their corridor admitted into the program.

01:08:24They see a connection between Fayetteville and Raleigh as really important to their military

01:08:29community. They don't get direct flights out of Fayetteville to D.C., which is a common path of

01:08:35travel. They lost their direct flight some years ago. And so they see this as an opportunity to do

01:08:40a ticket on a train from Fayetteville to Raleigh, and then they can go from RDU to D.C. as a solution

01:08:46for them. When we build out the S line, they're more excited that they can stay on that single

01:08:50seat train and go from Fayetteville right to D.C. But what we're doing with them is saying,

01:08:56we'll do this first phase of initial planning with you, and then we can tell you when you'll

01:09:01need your 10% match for the next phase of planning and how much that will be so they can put it into

01:09:07their local government budget cycle. And then we can say when you get to the construction stage,

01:09:11that'll be 80% federal funds and 20% non-federal funds, and this is how much that will be and when

01:09:17you will need it. It's that kind of structured planning that will tell a community what has to

01:09:22be built, how much it will cost, and what the timetable is to when they will need that funding.

01:09:27So we're doing that with the Wilmingtons, the Ashevilles, the Goldsboros, the Fayettevilles,

01:09:31all across our state. And that kind of robust planning I think will help us be able to deliver

01:09:37more projects on time and on budget. I will have to brag a little bit on our rail division in North

01:09:42Carolina. During the earlier era investments, the state of North Carolina won a $500 million

01:09:50investment to improve the corridor between Greensboro and Charlotte. It was a half a

01:09:54billion dollar investment and we delivered it on time and on budget. We delivered it $3 under the

01:10:00grant that was given to us. We attempted to spend the last $3 but could not find a way to do that

01:10:05within the rules. So we feel really confident that when we take these corridors through Corridor ID,

01:10:10we'll be able to help deliver those projects. Thank you. And finally, can you speak a little

01:10:16about the ways in which North Carolina's Department of Transportation works both with Amtrak and local

01:10:23communities to ensure that train service will benefit our communities back home?

01:10:30It's really important for us to listen to the communities and understand the service outcomes

01:10:36that they need. We're starting to explore a sixth frequency between Charlotte and Raleigh. And so our

01:10:42first step will be to go to the communities along our main corridor between Raleigh and Charlotte

01:10:47and understand how do they use our train? How would they like to use our train? We have folks who

01:10:52commute between cities for their jobs. We have folks who use it to get to health care. We have

01:10:59folks that use it to get to college. Our main corridor touches about 22 colleges. So understanding

01:11:04what times of day they travel and how they want to use it will be a first step in ensuring that

01:11:09it meets their traveling needs. Then we'll work with our freight railroad partners, with the North

01:11:14Carolina Railroad, and with Amtrak to figure out what kind of infrastructure investments are needed

01:11:19to create that kind of capacity to unlock that additional frequency along the corridor. So for us,

01:11:25it's really about the partnership with our partners. In North Carolina, we approach rail

01:11:29projects because we run on freight rail tracks. We approach it as, how do we create a win-win?

01:11:36How do we create the ability for freight to not only continue to run its freight, but to grow

01:11:40its freight opportunity? Because manufacturing is a key part of our economy in North Carolina,

01:11:46while also building the additional capacity to add more passenger rail. So we really take,

01:11:51I think, a partnership approach to what we do. Thanks for that, Mr. Chairman. That's my time.

01:11:56Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Babin for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you

01:12:01witnesses for being here today. My questions are for you, Mr. Gardner. California just petitioned

01:12:07the EPA to allow it to implement the so-called in-use locomotive regulation, which would

01:12:14effectively require all locomotives, including passenger rail, to operate in a zero emission

01:12:21configuration when operating in the state of California. Does Amtrak have a position on this

01:12:27matter, and if so, why did Amtrak choose not to submit comments? Thank you, Congressman. My

01:12:34understanding is that the proposal won't create an issue for Amtrak and our current fleet and our

01:12:44trajectory over time to achieve net zero by 2045. So we're working with the state, and we

01:12:53support, ultimately, the transition here where it's appropriate. And so we've been working with

01:13:00California. Of course, obviously, maintaining service is going to be critical to us, but that's

01:13:06our position so far. All other railroads, large and small, have conducted extensive analysis to

01:13:13determine the impact of this regulation on their businesses and on their customers.

01:13:18What sort of analysis has Amtrak performed, if any at all, and what are the results of Amtrak's

01:13:24analysis? And if EPA approves the California regulation, it may well be implemented in other

01:13:30states as well. So what sort of impact would this regulation have on Amtrak's business?

01:13:37Again, I think at the moment we don't anticipate there being a significant impact to our service

01:13:41in California, but I can follow up with you with any of the specifics based on our analysis.

01:13:46Great. Amtrak recently projected a $1 billion in annual losses through 2027. Some of it's already

01:13:54been discussed. Much of this has been related to COVID-era impacts, but as we all know, COVID

01:13:59hysteria has been over for a while now. For Amtrak, ridership has nearly recovered to pre-pandemic

01:14:06levels. So why is Amtrak still going to lose so much money over the next few years, and how is

01:14:13COVID actually still impacting Amtrak's business model? Thank you, Congressman. So last year we've

01:14:21significantly reduced our losses year over year. Last year our loss was $752 million, which was $120

01:14:26million better than the prior year. This year we'll be somewhere around $670 million. So we're

01:14:31continually to improve, and as I mentioned to the chairman, get better and better financials

01:14:36here every year. The big issue that's facing Amtrak in terms of cost structure, because you

01:14:40mentioned our revenue is back, our ridership is back, what's significantly higher is our costs,

01:14:46and those have come in really a couple of different forms. First, our labor costs are

01:14:51significantly up. As you know, the freight railroads started the pattern bargain with their

01:14:56unions, and we've followed through. We're almost done with our agreements. We have

01:15:00really great relationships with our unions, and I think we've got really good deals, but

01:15:04these costs are going up, and they reflect the larger wage sort of increases across the economy.

01:15:11For us to be competitive, we've got to pay competitive wages. So those labor costs are up,

01:15:16fuel costs are up, insurance is significantly higher, claims-related expense also up significantly.

01:15:23So a lot of headwinds, that's all before you get to the supply chain. So all the costs,

01:15:29of course, associated with the hard materials we purchase have all increased. So we're fighting

01:15:34that inflation, but we are clawing back sort of year by year here with better revenue and more

01:15:40service against the strong demand. Well, Amtrak claims to be a private company, but a private

01:15:46company that anyone that I know of could not keep his head above water when it's bleeding billions

01:15:52of dollars of that nature. And I don't think, would a private company likely consider handing

01:15:59out bonuses ranging from a half a million dollars to $750,000 if their company were performing like

01:16:07that? And I think not. So Mr. Gardner, how do you justify handing out so much money to your

01:16:13executives if they're failing to get Amtrak into the green or the black, I should say? Does

01:16:18performance have anything to do with bonus decisions, or are the numbers decided on

01:16:23arbitrarily? And if there is some sort of calculation or metric that determines these

01:16:28bonuses, I'd appreciate you sharing that with the committee today, because we're very interested,

01:16:33or at least following up in my office to share that. Yeah, absolutely. We'd be happy to share

01:16:39that with you. And as the chairman said, we'll be publishing this information. We do provide

01:16:43these numbers to Congress, and we've been able to talk through the way it works. I think

01:16:47the, to go to your first point, Amtrak is a federally owned corporation,

01:16:55chartered here in the D.C. under the Corporate Act. So certainly we don't consider ourselves a

01:17:00purely private corporation. We obviously are owned by the government and responsive to the

01:17:04taxpayer, and we have a board that's appointed by the president. So we have a dual mission,

01:17:08really, to both serve the nation and to do so efficiently, and be good stewards of the public's

01:17:14resources, and try and generate as much as we can to cover this network from the users of the

01:17:20system. So we work hard to do that, and we'll continue to work hard to do that. In terms of

01:17:25the network itself, it's set really by Congress. So to the extent that the network is, produces

01:17:30some services that require subsidy, like transit all over the United States, then that's because

01:17:36Congress has asked us to run those services, and we believe that they produce value. So we're

01:17:40supportive of that. In terms of the incentives, we have to compete with folks who have stock

01:17:45options, who get, you know, many times the value and incentives in the freight railroads and others,

01:17:51and we need to bring the best folks who can come manage a multi-billion dollar program here in the

01:17:56United, in Amtrak in the United States. And so we are out there competing to try and get that value.

01:18:03Thank you, sir. I now recognize Mr. DiLuzio for five minutes.

01:18:07Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and good afternoon, folks. Glad to be here with you. I'll just note

01:18:13and associate myself with many of Mr. Moulton's good comments about this profitability question.

01:18:18I suspect we'd have a very different discussion here if we were talking about the massive

01:18:24subsidies that we provide for other forms of transportation that are not provided

01:18:28in a meaningful way to Amtrak and passenger rail, and the strong need for substantial federal

01:18:34investment, I think, in faster high-speed rail. With that, I recently rode the Capital Limited

01:18:42from Pittsburgh down here to Washington. Beautiful ride. Takes you through really

01:18:49lovely parts of Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Maryland before you get to Washington.

01:18:53Seven and a half hours or so. You do that by four and a half hours by car. I think the scheduled

01:18:59flight time is a little more than an hour. It's less than that. I say that, again, recognizing

01:19:06that we need to have substantial investment in high-speed rail. Until that happens, which it

01:19:12should, this could also be faster, right? In 1941, my team found out it took about six hours,

01:19:1740 minutes to do that trip. And we know the main problem, it's not just the topography,

01:19:22which causes some issues, freight traffic. Freight rail slows down a lot of what happens on that

01:19:27route and many others. The Host Railroad Report says freight train interference is among the top

01:19:32two largest reasons for delay for the two freight railroads who are there, Norfolk Southern and CSX.

01:19:39Passenger rail has legal preference over freight on the tracks, but DOJ, as I understand it,

01:19:44has sued a carrier one time, 1979. If I'm wrong, you'll correct me there. So, Mr. Gardner, my

01:19:50question, does Amtrak have the tools that you think are necessary to reduce freight train

01:19:56interference that causes delays on routes like the Capital Limited? Well, thank you, Congressman,

01:20:01for that question. And, I mean, let me first start by saying that each route is different. There's

01:20:07always a combination of both the infrastructure and the geography and other things. We always are

01:20:14looking to have trip-time competitive service. That's actually Congress's instructions to us

01:20:18and our mission and one of the things that we're driving. Because we are similarly frustrated that

01:20:22we can't connect Washington and Pittsburgh and other parts of Pennsylvania in a way that's

01:20:28competitive to auto. As you say, it used to be some of these routes were faster and a lot of that

01:20:35comes from really two things. One is the change in the infrastructure configuration. So, sometimes

01:20:39railroads that were once two tracks have now gone to one and there is less capacity and it makes

01:20:45then trains meeting each other pose opportunities for delay. Now, the second issue is preference,

01:20:54as you mentioned, which is Amtrak and the passenger service getting the preference that's accorded.

01:20:59If the infrastructure has made smaller, then those kind of conflicts come up more often and there's

01:21:04the opportunity for Amtrak to not get the preference it necessarily needs. Now, that's not

01:21:09always the case, but we do have an issue across the United States where Amtrak does not always

01:21:14receive the preference it's really entitled to under law and we don't have an effective

01:21:22enforcement regime presently. So, this is a major issue and one in which we think more focus on

01:21:30will produce better results and in a way that does not interfere with freight traffic. Because, frankly,

01:21:36you know, we have a train a day on this route, so there's a tiny impact. And look, we have to move

01:21:41things by a freight rail for a lot of reasons, I agree. And I'll ask with a little bit of time left

01:21:46in terms of enforcement, Congress has empowered the Surface Transportation Board when on-time

01:21:52performance drops below 80 percent to investigate why. The capital limit and also the Pennsylvania

01:21:56coming out of Pittsburgh are two routes where that's been the case. Why haven't we seen those

01:22:03kinds of investigations requested from Amtrak? So, we have started, we did start as soon as we

01:22:09had the authority to because there's a long, long lead up to that point. We did initiate and invest,

01:22:15petition the STB to initiate an investigation. That was on our Sunset route under Section 213 of PREA.

01:22:20And so, that is underway. Certainly, we would like to see that investigation advance as,

01:22:27you know, as quickly as it can. STB needs, I think, has the resources, needs other resources to do that.

01:22:33But we support this measure to determine what the root causes are for delays. There may be a variety

01:22:40of issues, infrastructure, maintenance, et cetera. But we have poor performance on a number of routes.

01:22:46And we are responsible on behalf of American people and on your behalf to make sure we get

01:22:53to the bottom of what the root is and make sure that all the parties who are responsible

01:22:57are working together to get better service for American people and the taxpayers.

01:23:01Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

01:23:07Yes. Okay. Thank you. I recognize Mr. Stauber for five minutes.

01:23:12Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think we do ourselves a disservice when we operate with rose-colored

01:23:18glasses on. Now, I understand that passenger rail is well liked by some and well used in certain

01:23:24geographic areas of our country. However, no two states are exactly alike and practicality

01:23:31must be applied judiciously when considering future investments. Spending billions of dollars

01:23:37should have certain qualifiers like efficiency and cost effectiveness. I'd like to read an

01:23:44excerpt from an op-ed piece in the Duluth, Minnesota, News Tribune from April 2021.

01:23:51This comes from John Phelan, an economist at the Center of the American Experiment,

01:23:56when reflecting if a proposed train from Duluth, Minnesota to Minneapolis, Minnesota would be

01:24:02quicker than driving. Mr. Phelan stated, quote, no, the train will take 150 minutes. At present,

01:24:10you can drive from the depot in Duluth to Target Field where the Minnesota Twins play in 140

01:24:18minutes. And that assumes you want to go directly from the depot to Target Field. If you want to go

01:24:24from, say, Hermantown to the Mall of America, Hermantown is a city right next to Duluth,

01:24:30you have to add travel time on either end of the train. There's an 18-minute drive from Hermantown

01:24:35to the depot and a 46-minute light rail ride to the Mall of America for a total journey time of

01:24:41214 minutes. The drive, on the other hand, is 143 minutes, 71 minutes of savings. And all of this

01:24:51doesn't account for the waiting time on train timetables. When any mode of transportation

01:24:58fails to reduce costs, time, or ease for our constituents, and when true feasibility isn't

01:25:06clear, we should really consider if this is the wisest way to spend taxpayer dollars.

01:25:14I want to just ask a couple of quick questions. Mr. Gardner, you responded to Mr. Babin's,

01:25:22one of Mr. Babin's questions. And in part, you responded by Amtrak is owned by the government,

01:25:32paid for by the taxpayers. Did you say that?

01:25:37Did you say that?

01:25:41Yes, sir. Along with the revenues we receive.

01:25:45And Amtrak, you believe that transparency is important when you're making decisions

01:25:53and allow the public to be a part, not a part of the decision rather, but to

01:25:57understand your decision making. And I'm getting at in your meetings.

01:26:02Would you ever propose to make your board meetings public? Transcripts, make those transcripts public?

01:26:11So, Congressman, I think we, Chairman mentioned today, the our response to

01:26:19first fulfilling all the requirements of the new IIJA rules for the board and having more

01:26:24engagement and more transparency. And I think the board's willingness to further

01:26:28the board's willingness to further engage and create more transparency and visibility,

01:26:33because I think obviously we're excited by the engagement of folks who want to be a part of

01:26:38Amtrak and understand what we're doing and create more opportunities to do that while also making

01:26:41sure the company can undertake its business. So with that being said, you stand by your

01:26:47comment that Amtrak is owned by the government and paid for by the taxpayers.

01:26:53What is your salary per year?

01:26:56It's roughly $499,000 a year.

01:27:01$500,000?

01:27:02Yes.

01:27:03Half a million?

01:27:04Yes.

01:27:07What was your bonus last year?

01:27:10Between our long-term program and our short-term program, about $620,000.

01:27:15You made about $1.1 million last year?

01:27:17Correct.

01:27:19Mr. Crozier, do you want to answer those questions?

01:27:20Thank you. Yes. And I'm very sensitive to the concerns that you and others have expressed here.

01:27:32Let me just sort of answer your question in part by saying that I kind of approached this from the

01:27:38perspective of someone who's been on the Amtrak board, as I mentioned, since 2010. So I have

01:27:43actually seen the transformation of Amtrak that has accompanied a pretty significant change in

01:27:50the leadership at Amtrak within the management of the company. Amtrak is an operating entity.

01:27:55It runs a business, a business that is to some degree prescribed by the Congress.

01:28:00Mr. Crozier, I have 10 seconds left. What was your salary? What is your salary per year?

01:28:04My salary? I'm unpaid. The board has paid board fees for the days that we...

01:28:11What did you make last year?

01:28:13$18,000.

01:28:15Any bonuses?

01:28:17No.

01:28:18You're not on salary?

01:28:19No.

01:28:20Okay. I yield back, Mr. Chair.

01:28:23Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Carter for five minutes.

01:28:27Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses for joining us today.

01:28:30My district in southeast Louisiana has historically been a leader in transportation.

01:28:36Famously, the city of New Orleans once had a large network of streetcars

01:28:41and was one of the first American cities to use electric trolleys.

01:28:45Today, we're home to the Port of South Louisiana, one of the nation's leaders in total tonnage,

01:28:52as well as the Port of New Orleans, the only deepwater port served by six class one railroads.

01:29:00However, Louisiana has fallen behind other areas of the nation in terms of passenger rail options.

01:29:07Transportation leaders in Louisiana, like John Spain and Southern Rail Commission,

01:29:11are now planning to further connect the state by commuter rail, including lines connecting

01:29:17New Orleans, New Orleans West to Baton Rouge, and East to Mobile, Alabama,

01:29:24which stops at the communities between those cities.

01:29:29Doing so will reduce our transportation emissions, increase travel choices,

01:29:34create good paying jobs, and add additional evacuation options in the face

01:29:39of stronger and faster hurricanes. I'm also proud to say that the development of these routes,

01:29:45both have been benefited from the massive investments in the real infrastructure made

01:29:50possible by the bipartisan infrastructure law. Question for Mr. Gardner and Ms. Koshia.

01:29:55Mr. Koshia, last year Amtrak announced an agreement to restore Gulf Coast service between

01:30:01New Orleans and Mobile, which has been out of service since Hurricane Katrina

01:30:06damaged the lines in 2005. That project was aided by roughly 170 million dollars

01:30:13awarded through funding from the bipartisan infrastructure law, which helped make this

01:30:17return to service a reality. Amtrak and Southern Rail Commission have said that service would

01:30:22restart by the end of this year. Is this still a realistic time frame? What is the status of

01:30:28negotiations of the city of Mobile and their station improvements? Thank you, Congressman, and

01:30:36as you know, we're very big supporters of returning service to the Gulf Coast, and it's

01:30:41been a multi-year effort, a lot of work over the years, and a strong partnership with the Southern

01:30:47Rail Commission. We are hopefully very soon concluding our work with the city of Mobile.

01:30:55They need to work with us on a property agreement to allow us to undertake station

01:31:04work, CSX to undertake station work there in Mobile, and then support their

01:31:09contribution to the grant funds. So we're trying to finalize that with them, working hard, and I

01:31:16believe they're also working with other folks in Alabama. Is the end of the year still a realistic goal?

01:31:21I think we'll have to see if this work can be concluded here in the next

01:31:27month or so in terms of these agreements. That's what really allows CSX to then undertake the

01:31:31capital work necessary. Certainly from Amtrak's perspective, we're ready. We have trains, crews,

01:31:37we're ready to go, but we need the work to advance, and we'll be doing everything we can to get

01:31:43the service started as soon as possible. So I'll be able to update you soon here, and I'll be happy

01:31:47to come to your office to do that. Needless to say, it's incredibly important to the people of our region,

01:31:53economically, environmentally, and every way you can possibly imagine. We missed the boat, as you may

01:31:57recall, years ago when then-Governor Jindal opted to not take the resources to create this

01:32:04advancement. Fortunately, we are moving forward now, and we're prepared to help in any way we can.

01:32:09Mr. Kosher, do you have anything to add to that, sir? No, other than to indicate that the board has followed

01:32:14this particular expansion very closely, and we are sort of very hopeful that it'll be initiated.

01:32:21How would you describe your experience in working with the freight railroads to restart service

01:32:26between New Orleans and Mobile? Well, at this point, it's been very good. For a long time,

01:32:32there was debate between us about this, but when we've come to agreement, and the FRA, who's been

01:32:38an amazing partner, and the Department of Transportation has invested and spent a lot of time

01:32:42helping to bring the parties together here, they've been doing important work. There's really

01:32:48two big infrastructure components. There's a positive train control installation by Norfolk

01:32:52Southern in Louisiana, and then this additional work needed in Mobile so that we have a station

01:32:59track. So those are the two predicate projects before service, and both partners are strong

01:33:04and working with us. So we need to just get these elements done with Mobile and be able to move

01:33:09forward. In about 18 seconds, the proposed New Orleans to Baton Rouge rail line will operate

01:33:13through an area, some dub, and we're not proud of, an area referred to as Cancer Alley, because of

01:33:20the amounts of petrochemical and industrial activity in that area. In terms of pollution

01:33:25reduction, can you speak to how the communities in these areas will benefit from the massive

01:33:30reduction in car trips near their homes due to passenger rail lines? Well, Congressman, we're

01:33:36excited about Baton Rouge service, and that corridor is in the FRA Corridor ID program and is

01:33:42developing here. We are working with the host railroad, CPKC, and we think that there'll be

01:33:50real appetite for this service and a major opportunity for folks to have an alternative

01:33:55to driving, and as you say, remove cars and the emissions associated with them in that corridor.

01:34:02Any idea how to quantify the amount of reductions we'll enjoy? That'll be part of the Corridor ID

01:34:06planning process. $500,000 that was awarded. That's right. Well, that's the start, and that allows

01:34:11them to go into step two, which is really the service. Gentlemen, time has expired, and we got votes coming

01:34:16up here for a bit. I'm trying not to be, but I want to try to finish this hearing before votes here.

01:34:21I recognize Mr. Burchette for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Gardner, a year ago, I asked

01:34:26you about Amtrak's proposed annual operating loss. You told me it would be over 800 million dollars.

01:34:31What's the new projected annual operating loss? About 670.

01:34:36670, and last year, you also confirmed that according to Amtrak's five-year plan for fiscal

01:34:43year 2022 and through 2027 that Amtrak expects to lose one billion every year. Has your expected

01:34:50loss increased due to inflation? No, I think our five-year plan beginning 2022 anticipated

01:34:59higher losses than we, in fact, have experienced. We've been able to drive that number down last year

01:35:04and this year, so we're continuing to drive that number down below that. To what point?

01:35:10Well, again, our goal here is at the end of the decade to reach a sort of position of break-even

01:35:15on the train operating side of the business, recognizing that there's a big portion of

01:35:19operating expense associated with the capital works. We'll be able to help you see that, but

01:35:24our goal is to continue to make progress. We're setting our targets for next year here soon,

01:35:30so that will be something we work on with the board, but again, year-over-year improvement

01:35:34from last year and we'll continue to make improvement next year and reducing the loss.

01:35:40You all's executives were paid between $500,000 and $780,000. On top of that, the executives

01:35:46received bonuses last year, at least $200,000. I don't blame you, I blame the board. I mean,

01:35:52it's the contract you signed up under, but I'm wondering how do I explain folks in East Tennessee

01:35:58who are currently struggling, paying $600 more a month out of pocket just for living expenses

01:36:05through all this bad inflation that executives of a company that isn't even profitable

01:36:09get annual bonuses worth more than some of their homes?

01:36:17Mr. Koshy. Yeah, I assume, Congressman, you're addressing that question to me.

01:36:23I was starting to respond to this in part to your colleague's question, which is to say that,

01:36:31as I mentioned, I've been on the board since 2010 and I can only answer that question within

01:36:35the context of having seen the before and after picture. I would say that Amtrak for decades,

01:36:42probably 40 decades, suffered from both a chronic underinvestment in capital in a capital-intensive

01:36:48business and, frankly, weak management that allowed many practices to develop at the company

01:36:54that were not best practices. I've spent nearly 40 years in the private sector, much of it with

01:36:59very successful companies. I know what good looks like. It did not exist when we showed up.

01:37:04We intentionally revised the compensation program at the company because at the time,

01:37:10the company had a very, very lucrative pension and post-retirement plan that would have cost us

01:37:16more than triple of what the incentive compensation plan had cost. We are paying,

01:37:21sir, at the amount of bonuses that we're paying at the incentive comp. We understand the anxiety

01:37:26that it creates here on the Hill and other places with a company like Amtrak that is serving this

01:37:31public purpose. But I also will tell you that an operating company that has to compete with

01:37:36employees, with the freight railroads, the airlines, the hospitality business, the engineering

01:37:41companies, all of whom pay their employees far more than we do, we have no chance of succeeding

01:37:46without bringing in a team and putting them on the field that have an ability to do it.

01:37:50This team brought Amtrak for the first time in its 50-year history to within $27 million in fiscal

01:37:5619 to breaking even. That has never even come close. And in 2020, had the pandemic not occurred,

01:38:03we would have been in black ink on an operating level for the first time ever. Now, all of the

01:38:07headwinds that Mr. Gardner described to you that are creating a struggle for us to get back,

01:38:12we will get through them and we will be back in black ink. And I will tell you that the board's

01:38:17objective for how quickly to get there is even quicker than I am assuming that is otherwise

01:38:23being considered. I appreciate that. I'm going to run out of time. But one thing that is crystal

01:38:28clear to me is that the American taxpayer is being forced to fund you all and you have,

01:38:34for instance, you have a subpar dining experience, which ironically contributes

01:38:38to Amtrak's operating deficit, all while these executives make $200,000 bonuses.

01:38:44To me, that is unacceptable. And I yield the remainder of my time.

01:38:47Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Garcia for five minutes.

01:38:50Thank you, Chair and Ranking Member and all of our witnesses.

01:38:55A part of my district, about half is located just outside Chicago, and it's deeply tied to the rail

01:39:01industry, as are many parts of Chicagoland. As the rail capital of the country and a growing

01:39:07economic hub, Chicago is a prime location for expanding intercity passenger rail.

01:39:13Mr. Gardner, the Chicago Hub Improvement Project, or CHIP, is a large project to improve

01:39:19the service and eliminate delays at and around Chicago Union Station for intercity connections

01:39:26throughout the Midwest. More than 30 million riders pass through the station annually,

01:39:31and there are 400 train movements each day. How is this project progressing,

01:39:37and has the Infrastructure and Jobs Act benefited this project?

01:39:41Yes, thank you, Congressman, and we appreciate your support and focus on Chicago. It's the,

01:39:47as you say, the epicenter of the nation's rail network, and it is the heart of Amtrak's national

01:39:52network. And the CHIP program really simply is about getting passenger-favorable routes into

01:40:00Chicago Union Station, which is the heart of our national network for long-distance trains and the

01:40:05Chicago Hub service, where we serve not only Illinois and downstate Illinois trains, but also

01:40:10Michigan, Wisconsin, now Minnesota, and other services. So really important. The program has

01:40:21been a recipient of funds under the IIJA, and also most recently in the Appropriations Bill.

01:40:27We are focused right now on concourse expansion, which is really improving the outdated concourse

01:40:32that serves both our passengers and metro passengers, so that we can provide a much

01:40:38better level of service at the station. At the same time, we're looking to connect our routings

01:40:43out of the yard and terminal facility to be able to get those passenger-focused routes, so we do

01:40:50not incur delays for both our trains to the east and the south. Thank you. CHIP involves bringing

01:40:57together a wide array of stakeholders, Amtrak, Metro, Commuter Rail, and the Illinois, Chicago, and

01:41:02Michigan Departments of Transportation. How does Amtrak work with freight and commuter railroads

01:41:09to advance the CHIP improvements, and with having access to guaranteed funding similar to what

01:41:16highways have helped this project get finished? Well, let me start with your last point first,

01:41:21which is that absolutely guaranteed funding is essential to undertake a program like this. This

01:41:26program is a multi-year, massive project that's going to involve many different stakeholders. We

01:41:31talk sometimes about some of the big projects in the Northeast Corridor, but this is even more

01:41:35complex because we have many railroads, we have many different elements of government, we have

01:41:41different states. We all need to come together and work as a team to accomplish this work, so having

01:41:46dedicated funding and support for both planning and execution is going to be absolutely critical.

01:41:52Otherwise, we simply will not be able to advance this kind of multi-year work.

01:41:56In terms of working together, we have a strong working relationship, obviously, with Illinois DOT,

01:42:02with our freight railroad partners, and with Metro at the core, along with the city, CTA, etc.,

01:42:10where we are looking to find those win-win opportunities that both enhance today's service,

01:42:15but create capacity for the future. Another really important piece here is building more capacity

01:42:21for future growth on the yard side, so we have more mechanical capacity, because as the states

01:42:26look to grow service, we need a place to park trains and service them well in Chicago.

01:42:31Thank you. My last question, how is Amtrak prioritizing high-speed rail projects across

01:42:37the country, and what obstacles exist in terms of investment and infrastructure needs?

01:42:44Well, it's a great question. So, as I said earlier, high-speed rail, we think, makes a lot of sense in

01:42:50certain markets in the United States, not all markets, but certain markets would really have

01:42:53the density and the possible travel time that really support high speed, as we see all over

01:43:01the world. So, we're working to support those corridors that are in development. Several are

01:43:06funded through the corridor ID program that FRA is leading. We've talked about the opportunities

01:43:10that we see in Texas, and we're evaluating those, and we see the great work that's happened in the

01:43:17St. Louis corridor of providing service up to 110. Now, that certainly isn't the high speed that we

01:43:24all could envision and hope for, but it makes a material difference, because it creates that

01:43:29trip time, competitive, reliable service. So, we're focused on both those near-term opportunities.

01:43:34One of the best is the S-Line that we're working on with our colleague here in North Carolina.

01:43:39The opportunity to take that corridor and create a dedicated 110 or 125 mile an hour corridor that

01:43:45can relieve congestion on the rail side and create a faster trip is hugely important. The core of

01:43:51this, though, is that we don't have funding for high-speed rail. Thank you, Mr. Gardner. The

01:43:54gentleman's time has expired. Thank you. Mr. Yockham, you're recognized.

01:44:00Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses for being here today.

01:44:03Earlier this year, the committee held a hearing focusing on the role commuter rail lines play

01:44:08in our communities. I was pleased that the South Shore Line, which operates in my district,

01:44:12was able to participate and share some of the benefits of commuter rail in North Central

01:44:16Indiana. Additionally, the South Shore shared some of the challenges they face. Just last month,

01:44:23after a decade of planning, financing, and construction, the South Shore opened its $650

01:44:29million DoubleTrack service. It was an incredible accomplishment that will greatly benefit the

01:44:35Hoosiers that I represent. My question, Mr. Gardner, it's good to see you again, by the way.

01:44:42We've spoken a few times on prior occasions, both in my office as well as in this committee.

01:44:47As we have discussed, the DoubleTrack capital project was not funded by Amtrak in any way.

01:44:53Yet, of course, Amtrak is essentially inviting itself onto the DoubleTrack. Can you reaffirm

01:44:59your commitment that if Amtrak invokes this authority, you will work with the South Shore

01:45:04on the timing of those routes and compensate them appropriately? Well, thank you for the question.

01:45:10Good to see you again. First, I did have a chance to congratulate my colleague there,

01:45:15Nick D, on the launch of service. We're very excited for the work they've accomplished.

01:45:20As I said before, Amtrak is right now just in the process of evaluating different options. We're

01:45:26doing this together with the FRA and the states to look at ways that we can, called the South of

01:45:30the Lake Challenge, of providing service from the east to Chicago and looking at the different

01:45:36opportunities there long term. We're still in the planning phase. I did commit and I will continue

01:45:41to commit that we would, of course, work with our partners there at the South Shore about any

01:45:47possible use of the infrastructure. Amtrak does have rights to use the infrastructure, but we

01:45:51would do so pursuant to the federal rules and only as a result of cooperation and partnership.

01:45:59A big choice here also will be the role of the state of Indiana and the other states and their

01:46:04interests in terms of investment. This is still an early phase and we will work with Mike and

01:46:09the team there at South Shore as we consider this and other options. Great. Thank you for that

01:46:13continued commitment and we will certainly hold you to that. Switching gears to another topic,

01:46:18Mr. Gardner, according to the most recent progress report on Amtrak's compliance with the

01:46:22Americans with Disabilities Act or ADA, Amtrak has addressed its ADA responsibility in 119

01:46:29of the 385 stations. I know there's bipartisan frustration with Amtrak's lackluster compliance

01:46:36with the ADA, which was signed into law in 1990. My question is, Amtrak will get $22 billion in

01:46:42funding from the Infrastructure and Jobs Act or IJA. How much of that money will go toward complying

01:46:47with the ADA? Great question and of course we share that frustration and I think, you know,

01:46:53over my tenure at the company we've really done a lot to change that trajectory, investing over

01:46:58$800 million in ADA improvements. Right now we have about 190 stations that are compliant either

01:47:06entirely or all the way except the platform and that's another component. We have about 140,

01:47:15almost 150 stations in design. All the design will be done the end of next year. We've got

01:47:21another roughly 70 stations in construction in some form occurring this year, so we're making

01:47:26great progress. About a billion dollars, a little more than a billion dollars of that $22 billion

01:47:34is dedicated to these ADA improvements. So we're on track and working with FRA on that. I know that

01:47:40Amtrak is looking to use some of the $22 billion from IJA to expand into potentially new service

01:47:47stations. Will you commit that Amtrak will not inaugurate any new service stations on routes

01:47:52with stations that are not ADA compliant? So typically the FRA, when we go to start a new

01:48:00station, a requirement is that it's ADA compliant before we do that. Now we do have instances where

01:48:06we have temporary stations that are before a final station is complete, but we always make

01:48:11sure it's accessible. But we are required to have compliant stations. Thank you and Mr. Chairman,

01:48:17I yield back. Thank you. Mr. Menendez, you're recognized. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Ranking

01:48:21Member. Thank you to our witnesses, Mr. Gardner, Mr. Kosha. It's always great to see you and to

01:48:25be able to partner with you on these incredibly important projects. The Gateway Program is one

01:48:29of the largest and most urgent infrastructure projects in the country and will improve

01:48:33reliability and resiliency for some of the most heavily trafficked miles of railroad in the

01:48:37country. And our district is home to the bulk of this project in New Jersey. Just this week, the

01:48:42Federal Transit Administration announced a full funding grant agreement for the Hudson Tunnel

01:48:47Project, which will build a new two-track Hudson River rail tunnel to connect New Jersey to

01:48:52Manhattan. This agreement is a historic milestone for this project and is the next step towards

01:48:56finalizing the largest ever mass transit grant in U.S. history. This is incredible news for our

01:49:03district. It will not only make significant strides in improving rail service, but will bring tens of

01:49:08thousands of jobs to our region. It is a privilege to sit on this committee and work with my colleagues

01:49:13on the committee and in our district to see this project to completion. Mr. Gardner, can you expand

01:49:18upon how the IAJA has resulted in more reliable service for those who use intercity passenger rail

01:49:24on a regular basis? Well, thank you, Congressman. And we're overjoyed at the investments that are

01:49:32coming here to propel the Gateway Program forward. And as you say, it is an incredible program. It's

01:49:39really to take the biggest bottleneck on the North American system, really, the two-track

01:49:46mainline between Newark and New York, which is the busiest mainline in North America,

01:49:51and create a four-track crossing that's reliable and that can serve for decades and hopefully

01:49:58centuries ahead, really. So we're really excited about that work. In addition to that project,

01:50:03there are a number of others in the region. There's the Portal North Bridge Program, which is already

01:50:07underway, funded before IAJA. We've got the Sawtooth Program, Dock Bridge, and a whole series

01:50:16of improvements that are being propelled because of the bipartisan infrastructure law investments.

01:50:22So it's really been decades in the making, these deferred investments, many we inherited when we

01:50:29took over the corridor in 1976. And this is the first time we've had the dollars available to

01:50:34make these improvements, and in partnership with the states, because these are not just Amtrak and

01:50:39federal investments. The states have, as our colleague here has said from North Carolina,

01:50:45we look for skin in the game participants here who can invest as well. So in addition to those

01:50:51huge projects, we're spending a lot of money trying to rebuild the railroad today so we get

01:50:55more reliability. The same issue for the tunnels exists at the track level, switches, signals,

01:51:00overhead catenary. These systems are, in some cases, from the 1930s. So we've got to rebuild

01:51:06them, and we're out there doing that and trying to balance that with service because it's hard

01:51:10to rebuild the railroad while you're running on trains. So we've got to find that right mix and be

01:51:13able to get more and more investment out in the railroad and have that show up as better, more

01:51:19reliable service for passengers. Absolutely. Just want to quickly, because I want to be respectful

01:51:22of the other members, just give you an opportunity to follow up on this because we know about the

01:51:25incidents the last couple of weeks on the Northeast Corridor, etc. You allude to this in your prior

01:51:30answer, but just want you to be able to speak directly to the commuters, the residents of the

01:51:34district, and how does the IAJ funding towards the Northeast Corridor, how will it minimize and

01:51:41eventually eliminate incidents like what we've seen the last couple of weeks with on the Northeast

01:51:46Corridor? Yeah, well, so thank you. The events of the last couple weeks were a combination of some

01:51:50infrastructure failures and some equipment issues on New Jersey Transit side. Again, we share this

01:51:54railroad today and 24 trains an hour. It's the busiest railroad service in the U.S. here in this

01:52:01section. So on the infrastructure side, the big issues we had were some of our overhead wires.

01:52:07Again, this system that supports the traction power for our trains is from the 1930s.

01:52:14We have fatigued, ancient, really, designs and old equipment here, and it's made more difficult

01:52:21because there's very little windows to be able to go and do the work. So what the IAJ is allowing us

01:52:26in partnership with New Jersey Transit to do is go out and programmatically address those known

01:52:32critical areas of failure so that we can remove them. Meanwhile, these big projects are going to

01:52:37have huge improvements as well because they're going to put entirely new systems of power and

01:52:41signals in their locations and things like Portal Bridge today, which sometimes opens and gets stuck.

01:52:47Those kind of delays, which can throw a commute period into total chaos, they will be gone

01:52:57or radically reduced. Now, it's going to take some time, but we apologize to those

01:53:02who have been impacted by this. Of course, the last thing we want to do is have unreliable

01:53:06service. We're working hard, but we're digging out of a deep hole, and it's going to take a lot

01:53:10of money and time. Thankfully, Congress's support here has given us that path. Absolutely, and I

01:53:14appreciate all the work. I know there's a lot more work to do. I yield back. Thank you both so much.

01:53:18Thank you. Mr. Keene, you're recognized. Thank you, and I'll follow up. Ms. Gardner,

01:53:24Ms. Kosher, it's good to see you both here. The Northeast Corridor is the busiest rail

01:53:30line in the U.S. It's vital for over 51 million Americans. My constituents, it's extraordinarily

01:53:37important to their lives, livelihoods, and the economic growth and safety within the region.

01:53:45However, struggles with aging infrastructure, leading to delays that we've just now recently

01:53:50discussed, and a $40 billion repair backlog. Building on the previous question, what's next

01:53:58when you're looking for the importance of commerce and movement? What are the urgent

01:54:02needs that remain that have not already been authorized that Amtrak is looking for?

01:54:10Well, thank you so much for the question and for your support here. I know how important this

01:54:16railroad is to New Jersey and to mobility throughout the region. The big things that I

01:54:21think are remaining are really in three areas. One, we've only started this process of the

01:54:27catenary renewal and the signal system upgrade, and we need prolonged funding for that because

01:54:34already the big dollars in the IIJA have been dedicated to some of these massive projects. So

01:54:40there's more work to do. Now, these huge projects are going to deliver incredible benefits, but

01:54:46they don't resolve all the issues. So having funding that's going to take us into sort of

01:54:52the next tranche of investment is going to be really important coming out of this

01:54:56core investment. Additionally, we do need to work together with our partners to create more time to

01:55:02undertake the construction work because that is a challenge tonight. There'll be folks working out

01:55:09on the railroad, but they'll probably get, you know, less than an hour of uninterrupted time

01:55:13before trains come by and they have to pull back from the railroad and go to it. And that kind of

01:55:17on-again, off-again work makes it inefficient to get the work done, and some work's impossible to

01:55:22complete without shutting down the railroad entirely for a period on the overnight. So those

01:55:26are really important components, and I think the other element here is there is a need for

01:55:35additional capacity in targeted areas beyond the gateway section just to accommodate the growth we

01:55:41anticipate coming from New Jersey Transit and Amtrak over the long haul. Thank you. I've got a

01:55:47question that I've asked you for a very long time, both on the state level and now here in this room.

01:55:56Amtrak Connect U.S. proposes new corridor service for 16 states and expansion of service in 20 states

01:56:02at a cost of $75 billion. Similarly, Connect NEC 2037 proposes more frequent service,

01:56:11connections to new markets, additional capacity, and reduced travel time on the northeast corridor

01:56:17over 15 years. The question here is, still unresolved, is more Acela stops at Trenton?

01:56:26Right now there are none, right? Metro Park is what, one a day perhaps facing and going in one

01:56:32direction? And if you're looking at future expansion, why are we not looking at doing a

01:56:37better job and more frequent access to New Jersey state capital, to the economic and innovation

01:56:44entity that is around Metro Park, and we're looking at more consistent and predictable

01:56:50service for the entity in the state of New Jersey? So, Congressman, I know you're passionate about

01:56:58this and we have, as you've said, we have changed some of the service levels in around the various

01:57:05stations in New Jersey. In particular, we've seen an increase in service in New Brunswick, in Princeton

01:57:12Junction, and at EWR, at the airport rail station, and we have seen some reduction, the Acela service

01:57:20in Trenton, as you mentioned, and a small reduction in Metro Park service. Now, we are, as I committed

01:57:25before, as we introduced the new Acela service and also our additional regional new trains, the

01:57:30AeroSets that start showing up in 2026, we will have more capacity and be able to re-look at all

01:57:36the service patterns. Today, the demand has really shifted in these markets, but we will adopt

01:57:44a continual view at the demand here so we can get service in the right markets, because we

01:57:49understand how important it is to have service at Trenton, and we do think that there is an opportunity

01:57:54for Acela there. Right now, given the limited frequencies we have, because in part we're waiting

01:57:59for more equipment, the priority has been on some of the other places that have produced

01:58:06more revenue and ridership. If we are going to do what is necessary for the economic growth of New Jersey's

01:58:12capital city and one of the main innovation centers, both in and around Trenton, as well as

01:58:17in and around Metro Park, we need more consistent service and more predictability and more stops

01:58:24over the course of the entire day. Thank you, and I yield back. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Stanton, you're

01:58:28recognized. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for letting me join for this important hearing

01:58:32today. I represent Phoenix, Arizona, one of the fastest growing cities and communities in the

01:58:37country and the largest metropolitan area in the United States without access to passenger rail

01:58:42service. Antrax Sunset Limited travels between New Orleans and Los Angeles, running through Tucson

01:58:48in southern Arizona. Adding service in the Phoenix area will open up the entire state to important

01:58:55economic opportunities, opportunities to make our communities more accessible, more productive,

01:58:59and more internationally competitive. This past December, we took the first step towards

01:59:04re-establishing service at the federal level. The Arizona Department of Transportation was selected

01:59:08for the Federal Railroad Administration's Corridor ID Program and granted initial funding under our

01:59:15bipartisan infrastructure law to develop a scope, a schedule, and cost estimate. As you know,

01:59:21there's very strong local bipartisan support for re-establishing this connection. Mayors of

01:59:28a dozen Arizona communities along the proposed line have thrown their support behind the effort,

01:59:33including Phoenix, Mesa, Tempe, and Chandler, the communities that I represent in Congress.

01:59:39And the state of Arizona has put substantial dedicated resources, three and a half million,

01:59:44towards this critically important planning effort. Arizona is sending a clear message to Washington

01:59:51and to Amtrak, we are serious and ready to move on with this project. Mr. Gardner,

01:59:57Phoenix and Tucson is just one Corridor ID project of many across the country,

02:00:02nearly 70 across 44 states, as referenced by my colleague from New Jersey. While I know Amtrak may

02:00:09not engage with state DOT Corridor ID projects until phase two, the service development plan,

02:00:14what is Amtrak doing right now to plan for the next phase of this project?

02:00:21Thank you very much for the question. It is a great corridor, one we're really excited about.

02:00:26Phoenix is the largest city we don't serve directly here, and really it's a huge omission

02:00:32on our map and something we've long believed needed to be remedied, so we're really excited.

02:00:38I've had a chance to meet with the governor, I had a chance to meet with Mayor Gallego and Mayor

02:00:42Romano, a number of mayors across the corridor. As you say, incredible bipartisan local support

02:00:47here and excitement about the opportunity to bring passenger rail into this corridor. So the

02:00:53Corridor ID program, as you said, is really the process by which this will be developed. We are

02:00:59in supporting Arizona and we will be able to undertake some additional work with them as

02:01:05they go through this program. We've to date given a fair amount of attention and focus on

02:01:13the opportunities here, but the FRA program will really set the sort of pathway forward,

02:01:18but we continue to look for opportunities to partner with them and in phase two is really

02:01:22when we can undertake additional studies and work with them to drive things like revenue ridership

02:01:27and other opportunities. Similarly, we are leading the return to seven-day service on the sunset

02:01:32route and there's obviously overlap here, so this is an area which we're excited to advance and

02:01:37we're going to do that in partnership so that we can have an efficient planning process and get

02:01:42value from both projects together. Well, once you get to phase two, if Amtrak is selected and

02:01:48my expectation they will be, you can't say that, but I can. We expect that Amtrak will be selected.

02:01:53I look forward to engaging closely with you. One of the reasons this issue is so important to me

02:01:58is because passenger rail will boost our regional economies with better access to jobs,

02:02:02more private investment along this route. Maybe we can talk a bit about that in the little time

02:02:07I have left. Can you talk about how expanded rail service drives private investment?

02:02:13Absolutely. We've seen incredible investments that have followed the type of service introduction

02:02:20that you're describing here, whether it's in Maine where the Downeaster service has established a

02:02:25whole transit-oriented development program and sort of revitalization of communities in New England,

02:02:31whether it is what we see being planned already in Colorado as they look to develop front range

02:02:38service. There's a huge amount of interest and density that gets developed, frankly, when we

02:02:45create this node of mobility with passenger rail. So we expect both immediate improvements to occur

02:02:54in the station area where folks locate both housing and commercial and office because they

02:03:01want that benefit of being able to connect efficiently to other markets. And then beyond

02:03:07that, we see benefits in housing and community and overall attractiveness in terms of competitiveness

02:03:13for communities that have this kind of service. And particularly amongst the younger generation.

02:03:20I know Congressman mentioned that folks are looking for trip time competitive service. We

02:03:25completely agree. But I would note that there are many folks who would rather take the train than

02:03:29drive, even if it's a little bit longer. Now, we've got to be in sort of the ballpark. But frankly,

02:03:34people find the train more productive and more relaxing than driving in many places,

02:03:38particularly younger generations. And that's important for communities.

02:03:41Thanks so much, Chairman. We don't miss votes.

02:03:45The gentleman yields. Are there any further questions from members of the committee have

02:03:49not been recognized? Seeing none, this concludes our hearing for today. I'd like to thank each

02:03:53one of you for being here. The committee stands adjourned.

House Transportation & Infrastructure Committee Holds Hearing On Amtrak & Intercity Passenger Rail

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