" Hamein Sindh Hukoomat Se Seekhnay Ki Zaroorat Hai. ." Wazir-e-Khazana Ka Ahem Tajzia
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00:00Sir, you are saying that provincial subjects cannot take unilateral decisions, and theoretically that sounds fine.
00:06But provinces do not collect any property tax. Last year, only 8 billion rupees were collected.
00:11Why doesn't the loyal government tell the provinces to give this topic to the provinces?
00:17Because you say that they cannot do it unilaterally, but real estate, agriculture are provincial subjects.
00:22But sir, Punjab, Sindh and Balochistan are under your jurisdiction.
00:25Mr. Shabashiri's niece is sitting in Punjab, Mr. Mariam is there. They are not using their tax powers.
00:30They might as well surrender to the federal government.
00:32And if they don't want to do any agricultural tax or real estate levy, if you cannot give them incentives,
00:38then take this power from them.
00:40Yes, I think, I will just say that these are the subjects where we will request the provinces to be incentivized
00:53that they should increase in this direction.
00:58And ultimately, as a sovereign, we will have to increase.
01:03Because I just say that at this time, a certain percentage of whatever we collect goes to the provinces.
01:12That this year you have increased the revenue by 30%, next year you are going to increase it by 38%.
01:19And we are going to increase it and God willing, we will complete it.
01:24But if there is room in the provinces, then if we do not realize its full potential,
01:34then the sustainability that I am talking about, to take tax to GDP ratio for the country,
01:41not the federal government, not for FVR, for the country,
01:45that where we can be part of the committee of nations or at least make a start to be part of the committee of nations,
01:54that 13-13.5% should be taken, we cannot do this alone on the federal government.
01:59We will have to work together with the provinces.
02:02And even today, when we talk about primary surplus, unless the provinces deliver their provincial surpluses,
02:10we cannot take it forward.
02:12You are right, I can only tell you that the negotiations with them have just started.
02:18And God willing, we will take this negotiation forward.
02:21Okay sir, that's good to know that the negotiations have started.
02:23Because these are easy conversations to have, given that you have your own governments everywhere.
02:27But sir, please tell us, what is the logic behind the PSDP of 1500 billion,
02:31what is the logic behind the M&A schemes of 75 billion, when we have to tighten the belt fiscally.
02:38Everything you are showing, unfortunately, goes against the principles of fiscal reform.
02:42See, as I said in the budget speech, that Mehar, it is very important that the projects that are already on the way,
02:54some have stopped at 50%, some at 60%, some at 70%,
03:00so 81% of this money is going to be spent on those projects, which we have to take through the finishing line.
03:09Can you imagine that there is a project and it has stopped at 60%, 70%, and its impact will not come.
03:18So one thing we have to clear.
03:21Apart from that, there are 19% projects that we are doing new projects.
03:27In that too, the National Economic Council, in which the Prime Minister chairs it,
03:33the Chief Minister and the Chief Minister are present, and there are some Federal Ministers,
03:40a very strict criteria has been set for these projects, which will be in production,
03:47there will be dams, which will have a high-level impact, where the federation has to fund it,
03:58or these Mehar are those projects where, for example, World Bank, ADB, AIB,
04:03funding is available to us in dollars or in foreign currency, and we have to give it,
04:10I am saying this from a technical point of view, we have to give it the rupee cover,
04:15so that funding can come and these projects can be carried forward.
04:19So we have made it very strict.
04:21And the last thing I want to say is that out of 1500, 1400, of course, is part of the PSDP,
04:29100 billion is that, which is going to be through public-private partnership.
04:34And I go back again to praise the Government of Sindh,
04:38that the way they have done infrastructure projects in public-private partnership,
04:43at the federal level, we need to learn from them.
04:46And carry it forward in the same way, so that the PPP going forward,
04:51this framework increases, and the public sector decreases from it.
04:57But at this time, this was the need of the time, Mehar.
05:00And sir, there is a very big issue of pensions.
05:02The rapid increase in pensions that we are seeing,
05:05will the loyal government be able to meet these expenses and expenses in five years?
05:09And the way you announced the pension plan for new employees today,
05:12you are basically following the pension reforms that were done two years before Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.
05:18But, unfortunately, all the existing employees, the ones who exist right now,
05:23you have not talked about their pension funding.
05:27If taxes can be imposed on us, on this level, on the common man,
05:30then why can't taxes be imposed on the employees of the public sector on their pension, sir?
05:35Yes, I think your question on pension is absolutely correct.
05:40I will just say that we are working on both things.
05:46I have also given a blind eye to that in the budget speech.
05:49I could not share the details because we are still working it out with the stakeholders.
05:55Whatever you have said, Mehar, is absolutely correct.
05:58The unfunded pension liability, I can only talk about the federal government.
06:03This is a very big issue.
06:06This is a family issue.
06:08If we do not bring reforms in this, if we don't get on to course correction,
06:14and a lot of work has been done on this.
06:16I am not saying that I am talking to you very lightly.
06:22We have been working on this for the last 2-3 months,
06:26and you will see that we will take this forward.
06:32Because if we don't fix it, we have an unfunded pension liability.
06:39Absolutely.
06:40Number one.
06:41Number two, at least we can do this, that going forward,
06:45the loyal employees who are coming to the workforce,
06:51they can be taken to the contributory scheme,
06:54so that day one, their pension liability gets funded.
06:59And the third thing is that we have to take it towards a very professional pension asset management fund,
07:11which we can outsource and take it forward.
07:14Whatever you have said is absolutely correct.
07:16Punjab took the first step in this.
07:19A few years ago, KPK has done the right thing as well.
07:24And I do think it's about time that at the federal level, we do the same.
07:28And you will hear about the steps that we are going to take around this.
07:34Sir, because future employees will have zero financial impact.
07:37The existing pension was to be reformed on the burden of 1 trillion.
07:42But sir, lastly, tell me, the government has asked for a loan of 7 billion dollars from China for the ML1 railway line.
07:48Will a forex be generated from the new line so that we can pay more loans and interest?
07:53I mean, in terms of cost-benefit analysis, this scheme is feasible.
07:56And is this the time, given our situation, when we should agree on more loans,
08:02given that this is already an IMF-made budget, right sir?
08:07Look, because there are many questions in every question of yours.
08:14I give you full credit for that.
08:17First of all, let me tell you one last thing.
08:21We are very aligned in terms of Pakistan's priorities.
08:26That's why I said yesterday that this is Pakistan's program.
08:31Tax to GDP, energy reforms, SOE reforms, privatization agenda,
08:36which is going to be helped, supported, funded by IMF.
08:40So we are broadly aligned on those parameters.