#budget2024 #inflation #pakistan #specialtransmission
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NewsTranscript
00:00In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.
00:08Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim.
00:09Once again, we welcome you to the most important part of this most important publication,
00:13where after a short while, in the National Assembly of Pakistan,
00:16Pakistan's Deputy Minister of Treasury will present the budget.
00:19The parliamentary session of the Sunni Triathlon Council has ended.
00:22There is a hint from India that the PTI, which you can call the Sunni Triathlon Council,
00:27will protest.
00:28A few moments ago, Deputy Prime Minister Ishaq Dar met with the People's Party.
00:33The People's Party, surprisingly, has been saying since yesterday in our publications
00:40that we have not been trusted with this budget at all.
00:43We do not know what is happening.
00:44However, Nafisa Shah Sahiba said a while ago that we do not have the option of not supporting the budget.
00:49A while ago, Ishaq Dar met with the People's Party leaders,
00:53and that meeting could not be proven profitable.
00:56The special session of the Deputy Prime Minister of Pakistan has just begun.
01:02Very soon, two very relevant people will join us.
01:05One is the one who has made the budget himself in the recent history of Pakistan.
01:09He has presented the budget for the financial year 2022-23, if I am not wrong.
01:13One is the one who has taken care of the backdoor of Pakistan's taxation system.
01:18The other is Mr. Mifta Ismail and Mr. Shabbar Zaidi.
01:22Both of them have the ability to explain complex issues in simple words.
01:27They will join us very soon.
01:29Meanwhile, Mr. Shoaib Nizami is with us throughout.
01:32Once again, welcome to our special correspondent on commerce and finance.
01:36Thank you.
01:37Is the budget coming after half an hour?
01:39What are the news from there?
01:40The speech will begin at 4.30 pm.
01:44It is expected that it will end at 5.15 pm.
01:47And what will happen after that?
01:49There is a history of the Cabinet.
01:51There is only approval.
01:53There is a formal process.
01:56Once the decisions are made, the budget will go to the Parliament for implementation.
02:02Then it will be laid.
02:04The next phase is that it will be sent to the Senate.
02:08The Senate will send it to the Standing Committee, which will be chaired by Salim Manviwala.
02:13It will be approved within 14 days, i.e. by 26th or 25th.
02:19The Senate has that much time.
02:21After that, the National Assembly will be discussing it.
02:23The National Assembly does not need the Climate Committee because it is being discussed in its essence.
02:30And even if they make a committee, then the finance bill issues will be included in it.
02:34It will be approved in the finance bill.
02:36It will be included in all the taxes.
02:38What the People's Party is saying so far, it seems that the People's Party is not so good in Punjabi.
02:44If you find Vichu Vichu or Uttu Rola, it will be like that.
02:48The role of the People's Party in the number game is not going in.
02:51If they really mean business, then they should not support it.
02:54But that will not be the case.
02:56Maybe they will say that this should not happen.
02:58They have increased the salary level so much.
03:00They are privatizing.
03:02The poor will die.
03:04There will be high layoffs.
03:06But they will also approve it.
03:08It seems so.
03:10On one hand, Chaudhary agrees and on the other hand, the bill also agrees.
03:12This seems to be the case of the People's Party.
03:14It seems so.
03:16But it will not happen without it.
03:18If the People's Party does not support it, then the finance bill will not pass.
03:20Then there will be uncertainty in the country.
03:22Then you have to go to the IMF in the last week of June.
03:24You have to take the biggest program in history.
03:266 to 8 billion dollars.
03:28The taxes that are being imposed are for 6 to 8 billion dollars.
03:30If they were within 6 billion dollars,
03:32then maybe it would have been less.
03:34Our guests have joined us.
03:36Mr. Shabbarzadeh is with us.
03:38Please tell me the control room.
03:40Okay, we are connecting.
03:42I hope you are connected.
03:44Mr. Shabbarzadeh is in FBR.
03:46Mr. Murtaza has also joined us.
03:48As soon as Mr. Murtaza joins us,
03:50you will see him.
03:52Mr. Shabbarzadeh, Assalam-o-Alaikum.
03:54Shabbarzadeh, Assalam-o-Alaikum.
03:56Mr. Shabbarzadeh, Assalam-o-Alaikum.
03:58Assalam-o-Alaikum, I can hear you.
04:00Yes, I can hear you.
04:02Thank you very much for your time, Mr. Shabbarzadeh.
04:04Of course,
04:06it is not only about your economy,
04:08but it is also about tax collection,
04:10which is a very concerning issue for the common man.
04:12You have been an expert in this
04:14and also in the realm of affairs.
04:16You say that because of the IMF,
04:18you need to pay 2,000 rupees,
04:20or whatever is around it.
04:22Do you need any additional
04:24tax collection?
04:26So, what I can understand
04:28from what I have heard so far
04:30is that it is possible that the highest slab
04:32of the salary-paying class
04:34may take up to 40% or even 45%.
04:36If I ask you a straight question,
04:38you have spoken very openly about this issue.
04:40You have told us about the classes
04:42that are in trouble if they are taxed.
04:44In today's situation,
04:46practically speaking,
04:48if you can tell the government
04:50not to do this here and there,
04:52if you tax in these three sectors,
04:54then you will be able to collect
04:56this much additional tax.
04:58Look,
05:00Mr. Wadawi,
05:02it is a very big thing.
05:04We have
05:06a lot of money.
05:08If we
05:10have to
05:12collect
05:142,000 rupees,
05:16is there anyone who can
05:18collect me 2,000 rupees?
05:20Let's reconnect with you, Mr. Shabbar.
05:22We cannot hear you.
05:24It is all about numbers.
05:26Let's quickly reconnect.
05:28What is the issue?
05:30How much is the tax revenue target?
05:3212,970 rupees.
05:34That is,
05:36it is increasing by 35%.
05:38From 34 to 35%.
05:40If you take the number of inflation
05:42as 12% and the number of growth
05:44as 3.5%, then you get
05:4615-15.5%.
05:48After this,
05:50the 2,000 rupee taxes
05:52will increase.
05:54GST is the easiest solution.
05:56GST will increase?
05:58Yes.
06:00Is it possible that GST will increase?
06:02Yes.
06:042,000 rupees does not come easily.
06:06When you take such a big number,
06:08then you have to...
06:10Now we say that the FDR has taken administrative measures.
06:12What kind of a disaster
06:14will it bring on tax thieves?
06:16In cities,
06:18there is a lot of tax on cars.
06:20There is a lot of tax on cars in villages.
06:22Even in small cities,
06:24property taxes are not being collected.
06:26Property taxes are not being collected.
06:28GST on services
06:30is not being collected.
06:32Tax thieves are in heaven.
06:34The FDR has said
06:36that he has tried
06:38since the time of the FDR.
06:40It is so funny
06:42and it is so serious at the same time.
06:44Meanwhile, Mr. Ismail,
06:46I have introduced you earlier.
06:48I am so grateful that you have joined us.
06:50Thank you very much.
06:52Mr. Shabboz,
06:54I have put a lot of effort
06:56to give me a place.
06:58There are 2300 people in the FDR.
07:00The work is not of more than 500-700 people.
07:02I may not give 1500-1600 people a place,
07:04but...
07:06According to him,
07:081500-1600 people come in the morning
07:10and think where to make money.
07:12They want to sit at home
07:14and get their salary.
07:16But I could not do that.
07:18Mr. Rifta, Assalam-o-Alaikum.
07:20Wa-Alaikum-Assalam.
07:22Thank you very much for your time, sir.
07:24The IMF is ahead.
07:26There is a well ahead.
07:28The 9-month program has just ended.
07:30We have to go for 6-8 billion dollars.
07:32There is a budget today.
07:34If you were here,
07:36I would ask you three things.
07:38What would you do
07:40for the people of Pakistan?
07:42Please tell me.
07:46Sir,
07:48I would try to bring
07:50those who are not in the tax net
07:52into the tax net.
07:54I understand that
07:56in Pakistan,
07:58until you do not revisit
08:00the NFC award once
08:02and do not reduce the share of some provinces,
08:04there is no way to
08:06bring the Wafaaq budget closer.
08:08If you look at the Wafaaq budget
08:10in the last 10 years,
08:12it has been reduced
08:14since the NFC award.
08:16So, there is no way
08:18to bring the Wafaaq budget
08:20closer
08:22until you reduce the share of some provinces.
08:24The third thing I would do
08:26is that you have given tax
08:28on the land to the provinces
08:30and tax on the property.
08:32Last year,
08:34all four provinces
08:36have collected tax on the land.
08:38Only Bombay
08:40has collected
08:42150 billion Pakistani rupees.
08:44If we collect tax on the Wafaaq budget,
08:46we can easily get 400-500 billion rupees.
08:48So, it is important
08:50to do these three things.
08:52Let's open these three points, Mr. Mifta.
08:54First of all, you said that
08:56I would try to bring those who are not in the tax net.
08:58In these departments,
09:00Zaraat and property are a separate matter.
09:02But in these departments,
09:04people say,
09:06you should at least tax this.
09:08The easiest thing is that
09:10there are retailers and wholesalers.
09:12At that time,
09:14there would have been 25 lakhs.
09:16There would have been 5 lakhs in Karachi.
09:18There are 30 lakh shops.
09:20I think there are 50,000-70,000 shops registered.
09:22There are 30,000-40,000 shops
09:24and 50,000 shops are not registered.
09:26If it is that simple,
09:28why was it not possible?
09:30Mr. Shaukat Tareen used to say
09:32that this machine will come.
09:34POS will come.
09:36He used to say that there are so many shops.
09:38If we give so many taxes,
09:40machines will be installed in every shop.
09:42There will be no transaction
09:44without a receipt.
09:46Customers will insist that they need a receipt.
09:48You keep saying that there are 20 shops in the country.
09:50If it is that simple,
09:52why is it not possible
09:54that there are 22 lakh shops
09:56and 25 lakh shops in the country
09:58and we give 70,000 taxes.
10:00We are not getting any benefit from the tax rate.
10:04Sir, this is not a matter of technology.
10:06There are many ways and schemes.
10:08It can be done very easily
10:10by the FBI and Q-Block.
10:12The real problem is
10:14the Prime Minister's will.
10:16If the Prime Minister
10:18gets the courage and understands
10:20that this is not possible for the country,
10:22then something else can happen.
10:24I don't think that
10:2618% sale tax should be imposed on the shops.
10:28If there is no sale tax
10:30on one shop,
10:32there will be a lot of cheating.
10:34In Islamabad city,
10:36if you pay with a credit card,
10:38there is a 5% tax.
10:40If you pay with cash,
10:42there is a 14% tax.
10:44Most people pay with a credit card.
10:46But what I did,
10:48I imposed a tax of 3000 rupees
10:50on every shop.
10:52After that,
10:54we called car dealers,
10:56furniture dealers,
10:58and taxed them separately.
11:00You can easily collect
11:02100-200 billion rupees
11:04from shopkeepers
11:06whose impact should come
11:08on the shop.
11:10We can increase the sale tax by 2%,
11:12but its impact
11:14only comes on the consumer.
11:1618% already.
11:18But if you impose a fixed tax on the shops,
11:20the impact will be given by the shopkeeper.
11:22We had said that we will add
11:24the sale tax on every shop and
11:26collect it in 3000 rupees.
11:28If the shopkeeper passes the tax
11:30on the price of the shop,
11:32will the customer be able to
11:34pass it on?
11:36No.
11:38If you have to pay 3000 rupees
11:40on every shop,
11:42you cannot pass it on
11:44at a fixed price.
11:46But if you impose a 2% tax
11:48on everything,
11:50the price will increase by 2%.
11:52So, the impact will come
11:54only on the consumer.
11:56If you are on the helm of affairs,
11:58who understands these issues better than you?
12:00How does political backlash come in?
12:02How does the vote bank come under threat?
12:04How do non-political entities
12:06have to be talked about?
12:08How does an elected government
12:10feel vulnerable in Pakistan?
12:12I am already unpopular.
12:14I have taken 4 strong decisions.
12:16I don't want my own establishment
12:18to become a big issue.
12:20Today, the political landscape is different.
12:22Today, there are no such issues.
12:24Today, there is only one page.
12:26Now, we should take these bold decisions.
12:28If not now,
12:30when will we take them?
12:32First of all,
12:34you should understand
12:36that this country
12:38is lagging behind
12:40India, Bangladesh, Nepal,
12:42Sri Lanka, Maldives.
12:44In the last 20-25 years,
12:46our people have become
12:48a victim of backwardness.
12:50We should understand that
12:52our system is not working properly.
12:54We are running behind India.
12:56We are not moving forward.
12:58Until we realize that
13:00our system is wrong,
13:02we will have to do something else.
13:04After that, you will decide
13:06that if you want to run this country,
13:08you will have to take tax from people
13:10and reduce some expenses.
13:12On the one hand,
13:14you make a PSDP of Rs 1,700 billion
13:16and spend Rs 1,700 billion directly.
13:18You will spend Rs 200 billion on companies
13:20and Rs 100 billion on public-private partnerships.
13:22You invest Rs 2,000 billion in provinces.
13:26You are giving Rs 75 billion to MNAs.
13:28That is,
13:30you are giving Rs 50 crores to each MNA
13:32including the People's Party.
13:34The provinces are giving
13:36Rs 1 billion to their MPAs.
13:38That is, there will be 600 MPAs,
13:40400-500 MPAs.
13:42You are spending Rs 700 billion.
13:44Tell me,
13:46is the country ready to give
13:48Rs 600-700 billion to MNAs
13:50to implement their schemes?
13:52And here you will increase the levy
13:54by Rs 30 on petrol.
13:56Is this fair?
13:58Are you telling people,
14:00these salary-paying people,
14:02that we will increase your tax,
14:04but we will not take tax from anyone
14:06who has a thousand acres of land?
14:08Is this fair?
14:10You are telling someone
14:12who has a thousand acres of land,
14:14that we will not take property tax from him,
14:16but we will start taking
14:18more sale tax from small people
14:20or put sale tax on medicines.
14:22So the government will have to
14:24correct its priorities,
14:26but they will have to understand
14:28that now we need surgery.
14:30Now this spray will not work with a bullet.
14:32I have heard that cricket team
14:34is coming from India.
14:36Mohsin Naqvi also said
14:38that surgery is needed.
14:40We need to understand that
14:42charity begins at home.
14:46We need a person who understands
14:48cricket.
14:50Mr. Zahedi,
14:52if you also feel that
14:54we are talking about this system
14:56in terms of economy,
14:58there is a complete need for surgery,
15:00then from where should we start?
15:02You have revealed everything
15:04that these are the classes,
15:06but the problem is that if we tax this,
15:08then you will be called
15:10and told that this is a parallel economy,
15:12what are you doing?
15:14This is from Gwadar to Sukkur,
15:16don't finish it.
15:18So if we can't do this,
15:20we can't do that,
15:22and we can't do that at all,
15:24then what can we do
15:26other than regret?
15:28Mr. Zahedi,
15:30I will tell you one thing,
15:32I will tell you one thing,
15:34I will tell you one thing,
15:36I will tell you one thing,
15:38earlier we were doing
15:40that we
15:42wanted to test this,
15:44we didn't want to do it,
15:46we were doing it for 70 years,
15:48but when
15:50the shop was closed,
15:52now we are doing it,
15:54all the companies
15:56that we have tested,
15:58they are so strong,
16:00there is no sound,
16:02there is no sound,
16:04no sound,
16:08there is no sound,
16:10please reconnect,
16:12you might have understood it on the telephone.
16:14Meanwhile,
16:16Mr. Mifta,
16:18tell us in this,
16:20about the asset class,
16:24don't give a popular opinion,
16:26as an economist,
16:28as a finance minister,
16:30tell us,
16:32The highest level tax burden should be reduced to 40% or 45%
16:44Mr. Miftas
16:47Mr. Miftas are you there?
16:52Sorry, I can't hear you Mr. Badami
16:55Mr. Miftas, do you genuinely think that the highest level tax burden should be reduced?
17:06Absolutely not. And I don't think that it will have a huge revenue impact.
17:09Absolutely not.
17:12This was the stubbornness of the IMF when I was there.
17:15But when I gave a budget without the IMF, when Mr. Abbasi was the Prime Minister,
17:21we actually increased the maximum tax burden to 15% on the salary class.
17:25And we used to issue lakhs of rupees first.
17:27Because we know Pakistan, where there are business individuals,
17:31they can evade their income.
17:33But the salary class is at the lowest level.
17:36So they are the poorest.
17:37And in today's time, when even this year you have a 24% tax burden,
17:41even though it has decreased this month, but this year the average is 24%.
17:45And the survey of Pakistan has shown that the salaries of the lower class workers
17:49have not increased by more than 10%.
17:52So when your salaries are not increasing in proportion to that,
17:56and your purchasing power is decreasing under the burden of the tax burden,
18:02then at that time the salary class is not being paid.
18:04But the compulsion of the government is that the IMF says you have to show so much surplus.
18:09Now, if you want to show this surplus, then you can do two things.
18:12You can reduce expenses, but you also have to do your Ph.D.
18:15You have to give 50-50 crores to MNS.
18:17You have to give money to the provinces so that they can also give it to MPS.
18:21So you have to invest 600 million rupees there too.
18:23And after that, you don't have to take tax from Zaraat,
18:26you don't have to take tax from Ashrafiya,
18:28you don't have to take tax from the property holders,
18:30then Pakistan is a jobless country.
18:31Then if the snow falls, then poor Muslims.
18:35Mr. Shabbajaj, can you hear me?
18:37Yes, I can hear you.
18:39I don't repeat the question. I hope you can hear me.
18:41Please answer.
18:43Look, my question to you is this, Mr. Badami.
18:48Look, this budget transmission is happening.
18:50And I have been doing this budget transmission for at least 30 years.
18:54So, scientifically, I can tell you that I am also wasting my time and you are also wasting your time.
18:58You have been saying the same thing for 18 years.
19:00I have been saying the same thing for 18 years.
19:02I have been saying the same thing for 18 years.
19:04I can't see any change at all this time.
19:08I didn't see any action in which I can say that you have brought any change in any way.
19:14The same cars will be there, the same noise will be there, the same English will be spoken.
19:19I was reading the economic survey of Pakistan yesterday.
19:23Every 75 economic surveys that have come to Pakistan,
19:27they all say that we have taken the right path.
19:30We have taken the right path in the first year and we will move forward.
19:33So, you have not taken the right path for 75 years.
19:36But every year you see, it is still written that you have taken the right path.
19:40Now we will move forward.
19:42So, Mr. Waseem Badami, I want to tell you very briefly that this shop cannot be run.
19:47And if this shop has to be run, what will have to be done?
19:51So, what will have to be done?
19:53Mr. Shoaib Nizami, I want to ask you a question.
19:55Listen to me.
19:57If the shop has to be run, then Islamabad will have to be finished.
20:02Please explain this to us.
20:06Islamabad will have to be finished because the assembly members who are making our budget today,
20:14I assure you, Mr. Nizami will agree with you,
20:18if they know the basics of the budget,
20:23if they know the basics of the budget,
20:31then I will leave Pakistan and go to Israel.
20:34The people who are making the decision,
20:37the people who are going to make the decision,
20:40their cars are standing outside.
20:42Half of those cars will be of tempered number plate.
20:45Okay?
20:47The paper that will go to the Prime Minister,
20:50there will be so many papers in that paper that it cannot run.
20:53Okay?
20:55You close the assembly in Islamabad
20:58and take this assembly to the people.
21:02This cannot run.
21:04You are wasting my time, you are wasting your time,
21:07you are wasting my time,
21:09and this is a waste of time,
21:11tell me anything that has been done in Pakistan,
21:17at least take this government or the next government,
21:21which you can say is for the good of the people.
21:24We will ask Mr. Nizami.
21:26The problem is that we are not even committing new mistakes.
21:29The same problems and the repetition of the same mistakes.
21:32Mr. Nizami will ask our special correspondent.
21:34I have a question.
21:36The question is that last year when Mr. Ishaq Dar was winding up,
21:39he had added that the tax on the windfall profits in Pakistan
21:44will be imposed.
21:46He did not do it.
21:48The government imposed the tax in October.
21:50From 8th December till today,
21:52the windfall profits of the banks are staying.
21:55So when will the capabilities of the FBI to end the stay improve?
21:59And when you are saying that the tax should be imposed on the powerful classes in Pakistan,
22:02when 99D happened,
22:04and the Act of Parliament happened,
22:06then how did the stay on the Act of Parliament happen?
22:09And how long has it been?
22:11This is a case of October,
22:13and the stay has been going on since December.
22:15In six months,
22:17the amount of Rs. 2 billion will be made on interest per month.
22:20Then how will the powerful classes come?
22:22And how will the FBI's litigation capabilities improve?
22:27Waseem is there.
22:29Sir, give it to me.
22:30Look, this is not the time.
22:32What you are talking about,
22:3499A and all these things,
22:36the FBI,
22:38these are secondary things.
22:40I am just asking you a question.
22:42The budget that will be presented today,
22:44if we earn Rs. 100 in it,
22:47okay?
22:49After earning that Rs. 100,
22:51we will give Rs. 56 to the provincial governments
22:53that you spend this money.
22:55Okay?
22:57Fifty-six out of a hundred.
22:58Tell me, Waseem,
23:00in 18 years,
23:02or in 30 years,
23:04have you ever taken the account of that Rs. 56?
23:07Please repeat what you are saying.
23:09I will repeat it.
23:11He is asking if we have taken the account of the budget.
23:14The big part of the NFC,
23:16out of Rs. 12,000,
23:187.5% will go to them.
23:20No, no, listen to me.
23:22I am saying that
23:24the NFC of Pakistan says
23:26that if you earn Rs. 100,
23:28the state of Pakistan will earn Rs. 100,
23:30then Rs. 56 will go to the provincial governments
23:34before any interest or defense.
23:38Okay?
23:40That Rs. 56 has been made.
23:42If today's budget is Rs. 13,000,
23:44then take out Rs. 56.
23:46What happened to Rs. 56 out of Rs. 13,000?
23:48I think out of Rs. 18,000,
23:50Rs. 17,000 has come.
23:52Let's talk about the existing one.
23:54Rs. 56 out of Rs. 13,000
23:56is now Rs. 7,280.
23:58The budget of Rs. 7,280,000,000,000
24:01has gone to the provincial governments.
24:04You tell me,
24:06any TV program,
24:08any economist
24:10who took the answer of Rs. 7,200,000,000,000
24:12from Mr. Murad Ali Shah
24:14for the past 15 years
24:16or Abid Gaddapoor
24:18or Praveen Khattak
24:20or Buzdar
24:22or Maryam Nawaz
24:24that Rs. 7,200,000,000 was given to you.
24:26What did you do for the people in this Rs. 7,200,000,000,000?
24:28You are absolutely right.
24:30Let me complete my point.
24:32The viewers are also watching this.
24:34In that Rs. 7,200,000,000,000,
24:36they have health,
24:38education,
24:40transport,
24:42irrigation.
24:44They have become the king.
24:46We are wasting our time
24:48on the budget.