Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR) leads a Senate Finance Committee hearing to consider pending nominees.
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NewsTranscript
00:00:00to discuss four nominations. James Ives has been nominated to serve as Inspector
00:00:05General of the Department of the Treasury, and Rose Jenkins, Adam Landy, and
00:00:09Kashi Wei are all nominated to serve as judges of the United States Tax Court.
00:00:15I'll begin with the Treasury Inspector General. Inspectors General perform an
00:00:20essential oversight role across the government. At the Treasury, it oversees
00:00:25the department with a budget of billions of dollars and immense influence over
00:00:31the U.S. and global economy. They do important work rooting out waste, fraud,
00:00:36and abuse. There's not been a confirmed Treasury Inspector General for nearly
00:00:41five years. It's critical that the next Inspector General is undaunted by
00:00:47political pressure and unafraid to confront big issues even when it's
00:00:51unpopular. I'm a firm believer that tough oversight results in good
00:00:57government. Mr. Ives brings oversight experience from all over the federal
00:01:02government to his nomination. He currently serves as the Principal
00:01:06Deputy Director of the Defense Criminal Investigative Service, which is the
00:01:10criminal investigative arm of the Department of Defense's Office of
00:01:13Inspector General. He's also served within the Inspector General offices at
00:01:17NASA and the Government Publishing Office. He was a special agent with the
00:01:22State Department's Diplomatic Service, Security Service, and a Reserve Special
00:01:27Agent with the U.S. Coast Guard Investigative Service. When you add it
00:01:31all up, he has more than three decades of experience and oversight in law
00:01:35enforcement, and that will be highly valuable in the job as Treasury
00:01:38Inspector General. Next up, we'll hear from our three nominees for the tax court.
00:01:43The U.S. tax court is the judicial backbone of the federal tax code. It is
00:01:49the best opportunity Americans have to dispute tax bills before they have to
00:01:55pay, and it keeps them from getting stuck in slow-moving courts when they have a
00:02:00tax issue that just needs resolution. So this committee is thankful to have three
00:02:05nominees willing to take on an important job, all of whom bring a blend of public
00:02:10and private experience to their nominations. Rose Jenkins brings 15
00:02:14years of experience in tax law to her nomination. She has particular expertise
00:02:20in international tax law and administrative issues. She's currently an
00:02:24attorney in the Office of Associate Chief Counsel for Procedure and
00:02:28Administration. It's her second go-round with the IRS Chief Counsel, as she
00:02:34previously served in the International Office as well. She has valuable
00:02:38experience in the private sector, and she's been at NYU's Tax Law Center. Adam
00:02:44Landy has been a special trial judge on the tax court since 2021. He, too, has
00:02:50several years of experience at the Office of the IRS Chief Counsel, serving
00:02:53in Baltimore and San Francisco, as well as in the private sector. And finally,
00:02:58Cashie Way is a senior legislative counsel with the staff of the Joint
00:03:02Committee on Taxation. At the Joint Committee, Mr. Way's primary focus is on
00:03:06energy tax issues and research and development, but his background covers
00:03:11much more. In 18 years at the Joint Committee on Taxation, he's had a big
00:03:16impact on major bills, including the Energy Policy Act of 2005, the American
00:03:21Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, the American Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012,
00:03:27the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017, and the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022. And
00:03:33I think I can fairly speak for the entire committee, Mr. Way, that we are
00:03:38big fans of the staff at the Joint Committee on Taxation. We simply couldn't
00:03:43do our jobs without your professionalism and that of your colleagues, and you
00:03:49don't get a whole lot of recognition there on the staff of the Joint
00:03:53Committee on Taxation, but you've had a very good base of support from
00:03:58colleagues on both sides of this committee, and please convey that to the
00:04:02Joint Committee. You'll make an excellent tax court judge, but this
00:04:05committee will be sorry to lose your counsel up here on Capitol Hill. I want
00:04:10to thank and congratulate all four of our excellent nominees. Thank them for
00:04:14joining the committee this morning. I think we're in a good discussion. Senator
00:04:17Crapo. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and welcome to our four nominees. Mr.
00:04:22Ives, Ms. Jenkins, Mr. Landy, and Mr. Way. As Chair Wyden has just explained, today
00:04:30we will first hear from James Ives, who is nominated to serve as Inspector
00:04:34General of the Treasury Department. This position is responsible for keeping both
00:04:38the Treasury Secretary and Congress fully and currently informed
00:04:43about the problems and deficiencies relating to the administration of the
00:04:47Treasury Department programs and their operations, including the necessity for
00:04:53corrective action. Mr. Ives, given your depth of experience in the Inspector
00:04:58General community, you're undoubtedly aware of the importance of oversight and
00:05:04accountability within the executive branch. If confirmed, it will be your duty
00:05:09to lead efforts to investigate criminal activity and employee misconduct at
00:05:13Treasury's bureaus, combat waste, fraud, and abuse, and detect and deter fraud
00:05:19tied to pandemic-related legislation and other Treasury operations. I will be
00:05:25counting on an effective Inspector General to monitor these issues and
00:05:29ensure a professional level of work at the IG's office. Now moving to the other
00:05:35three nominees under consideration today, Ms. Jenkins, Mr. Landy, and Mr. Way, who
00:05:40have been nominated to the United States Tax Court. The Tax Court is committed to
00:05:46providing taxpayers, most of whom are self-represented, with a reasonable
00:05:51opportunity to challenge the IRS with as little inconvenience and expense as
00:05:56practicable. If taxpayers have a disagreement with the IRS, the Tax Court
00:06:02serves as a venue to get a fair, impartial, and efficient hearing. The
00:06:09Tax Court plays a central role in the maintenance of our tax laws, the
00:06:13complexity of which requires highly skilled judges. It is the Finance
00:06:19Committee's responsibility to ensure that judges nominated to serve on the
00:06:23Tax Court are prepared to tackle these complex issues. These positions are
00:06:29especially important to uphold the public trust in the tax system, which the
00:06:33American taxpayers expect and deserve. I thank each of our nominees for your
00:06:39dedication to our country, and I look forward to hearing your testimony today.
00:06:43Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I thank my colleague, and I did a pretty
00:06:50expansive introduction earlier, but suffice it to say that Mr. Ives has
00:06:57decades of experience in oversight and law enforcement. Ms. Jenkins has 15 years
00:07:02of experience in international tax law and administrative issues. Mr. Way has 18
00:07:08years of experience working at the Joint Committee on Taxation, and what we're
00:07:12going to do, we await Congressman Clyburn, who will give a formal
00:07:18introduction to Mr. Landy, and I think what we'll do is we'll just start with
00:07:22you, Mr. Ives, and at some point I would say to our witnesses, when Mr.
00:07:28Clyburn arrives, we will go to him to introduce Mr. Landy and then continue
00:07:32with our proceedings. So why don't you make your opening statement, Mr. Ives, and
00:07:36we welcome you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Crapo, and
00:07:40members of the committee, I am honored to have been nominated to serve as
00:07:44Inspector General of the Department of the Treasury. If confirmed, I look forward
00:07:48to working closely with this committee in fulfilling the Office of Inspector
00:07:51General's vital oversight role. I would like to recognize my wife, Jennifer, and
00:07:56our son, Jordan, for their continued support throughout this process. I also
00:08:01express my appreciation to my colleagues at the Department of Defense's Office of
00:08:04Inspector General for their encouragement, professionalism, and
00:08:08accomplishments overseeing our nation's largest and most complex government
00:08:12institution. I have dedicated my entire adult life to public service. Within two
00:08:18months of graduating college, I accepted an entry-level position with the
00:08:21Department of Justice. Just over a year later, I transferred to DOD IG, where I
00:08:27served as a special agent with a law enforcement arm, the Defense Criminal
00:08:30Investigative Service, for over ten years. I quickly came to appreciate the critical
00:08:35importance of the Inspector General role, seeing firsthand how well-executed
00:08:39IG initiatives can detect and deter fraud and abuse and return millions of
00:08:43dollars of ill-gotten gains to the government. My work entailed uncovering
00:08:48procurement fraud, health care fraud, cyber crimes, and diversion of sensitive
00:08:53military technology, resulting in successful criminal prosecutions and
00:08:57civil penalties and fines. By way of example, I participated in an exhaustive
00:09:02five-year investigation that resulted in the largest health care fraud recovery
00:09:06in our nation's history at the time. In 2001, my life changed dramatically when I
00:09:12was detailed in New York City to assist with the government's investigation and
00:09:15recovery efforts following the September 11th terrorist attacks. Subsequent to the
00:09:20attacks, defending the country against additional terrorist events became DOD's
00:09:24top priority. I was then asked to serve as DOD IG's full-time representative to
00:09:30the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force upon returning home, where I conducted
00:09:33counterterrorism investigations on a full-time basis from 2001 through 2004.
00:09:39This experience taught me the value of interagency collaboration and the
00:09:44importance of ensuring OIG priorities aligned with our nation's broader
00:09:47objectives. In 2004, I was promoted into a DOD IG headquarters position. Over the
00:09:54next several years, I held a variety of leadership positions at DOD IG,
00:09:57culminating in my appointment to the Senior Executive Service in 2009.
00:10:01Throughout this period, I developed a keen appreciation for the extent to
00:10:05which an Inspector General can foster positive change by promoting efficiency
00:10:09within their respective agency. After serving for over two decades at DOD, I
00:10:15sought to diversify my portfolio and joined the National Aeronautics and
00:10:18Space Administration's OIG, where I led the Office of Investigations for
00:10:22approximately six years. While serving at NASA, I continued to engage and focus
00:10:27and objective oversight by overseeing investigations involving fraud,
00:10:31corruption, and other criminal activity. I was also afforded the opportunity to
00:10:36serve as the Acting Inspector General of the Government Publishing Office in
00:10:39early 2019, while the organization was seeking a new permanent Inspector
00:10:44General. In 2021, I experienced a homecoming of sorts when I returned to
00:10:49DOD IG. I initially served as the organization's Deputy Inspector General
00:10:54for Overseas Contingency Operations before returning to DCIS, where I
00:10:58currently serve as Principal Deputy Director. Since returning to DCIS, a
00:11:02primary focus has been ensuring we provide timely oversight of DOD's
00:11:06Ukraine response efforts. I am extremely proud of the extent to which the entire
00:11:11DOD IG workforce has embraced this critical mission. Having served as a
00:11:17member of the IG community for over 30 years, I am fully aware that the role of
00:11:22Inspector General can be a challenging one. IGs are unique in that they report
00:11:26to both the department they oversee and Congress. Successful IGs learn to master
00:11:31the art of respectfully and professionally engaging agency and
00:11:35congressional leaders while remaining independent, objective, and nonpartisan. I
00:11:41believe my experience has shown that I am capable of ensuring that the Treasury
00:11:44Department's OIG embraces these tenets, and if confirmed, I will continue to
00:11:49engage in the same aggressive, objective oversight that I have consistently
00:11:53promoted throughout my entire career. Thank you for considering my nomination.
00:11:57I would be happy to answer your questions. Thank you, Mr. Ives. We've had
00:12:00the good fortune to be able to have Congressman Clyburn here. He has been so
00:12:07helpful on many of this committee's issues. I can't even remember how many
00:12:11times we've talked about Medicaid, for example, an area the congressman has a
00:12:15great interest in, and Mr. Landy, you are a lucky fella to have Congressman
00:12:20Clyburn introduce you after basketball games. My mother would always say, dear, I
00:12:25hope you're running with the right crowd tonight. If you've got Congressman
00:12:28Clyburn, you are Mr. Landy running with the right crowd. So, Mr. Congressman
00:12:33Clyburn, why don't you go ahead and introduce Mr. Landy, then we'll go back
00:12:36to our order of witnesses so my nominees are clear. We'll go to Mr. Jenkins,
00:12:43Mr. Landy, and Mr. Way. Please go ahead, Congressman Clyburn. Well, thank you very
00:12:48much, Chairman Wyden, Ranking Member Crapo, other members of the committee. Thank you
00:12:55for granting me the opportunity to introduce and speak in support of Adam
00:13:00Landry's nomination to the United States Tax Court. Adam hails from the big city
00:13:08of Aiken, South Carolina. Although Aiken is not in my congressional district. How many
00:13:13people live in Aiken? Well, it'll be easy to count, but a little more time will be
00:13:22required than we have here today. Although Aiken is not in my congressional
00:13:28district, Adam graduated from the University of South Carolina and the
00:13:32University of South Carolina Law School, both of which are in the district our
00:13:37proudly represent here in this august body. Although Adam has been
00:13:44associated with members of the Clyburn family for most of his life, he attended
00:13:50high school and law school with a cousin, Kourtney Clyburn Pope, now a South
00:13:57Carolina State Circuit Judge. Kourtney's mother, Mrs. Beverly Clyburn, a wife of my
00:14:04first cousin William, the second most senior member in the South Carolina
00:14:08House of Representatives, was his high school guidance counselor, and I think
00:14:14she did a pretty good job guiding him along the way. Now my father drilled in
00:14:21to me from childhood that experience is the best teacher, and that certainly is
00:14:29true with Adam. After an encounter which resulted in the taxpayers fees absorbing
00:14:38nearly all of his tax refund for filing a simple 1040-EZ, Adam vowed to never
00:14:45let that happen again. As an attorney for the Internal Revenue Service, Adam has
00:14:57argued before the tax court and has served as a special trial judge in the
00:15:03same venue. He remains connected to his colleagues through his membership and
00:15:10service in the American and National Bar Associations. He learned how to prepare
00:15:18his own returns and became a preparer for his friends. As a law student at the
00:15:26USC, Adam developed a love for the tax code and immersed himself in the
00:15:34intricacies of tax law. Adam began working with the Voluntary Income Tax Assistance
00:15:40Program, where he provided vital assistance to people who desperately
00:15:46needed their refunds to make ends meet, as we often say in the Southern culture.
00:15:53He continued his work after graduation and clerked on the State Circuit Court
00:16:00for Judge J. Michelle Childs, now on the prestigious United States Court of
00:16:06Appeals for the District of Columbia. Adam has a diversity of experience in
00:16:13the profession that make him an ideal candidate. I am pleased to be here today
00:16:21to speak on his behalf and thank you so much for allowing me to help Adam
00:16:29continue to make South Carolina and our citizens very proud. Thank you.
00:16:36We are in turn, Congressman, very honored to have you here and Mr. Landy, I think
00:16:42you've basically been described as a human version of direct file because
00:16:47that is some send-off. And Congressman, you're welcome to stay through our whole
00:16:53proceedings. I know you've got a very busy schedule and calendar, but you are
00:16:57always welcome here and appreciate it. Thank you very, very much and thanks to the
00:17:01entire committee for indulging me for these few moments. And by the time I
00:17:05see you again, Mr. Chairman, I'll have an accurate count on how many people are in
00:17:09Aiken. Great. Done. Thank you so much. We send you off. Thank you, Congressman.
00:17:14Okay, Ms. Jenkins. That's a hard job following Congressman Clyburn. It is a hard job, yes.
00:17:21Good morning, Chairman Wyden, Ranking Member Crapo, and other members of the
00:17:25Finance Committee. Thank you for holding this hearing to consider my nomination
00:17:29to serve on the United States Tax Court. I'm also grateful to the committee staff
00:17:33for their efforts throughout this process. I appreciate the opportunity to
00:17:37be here today, accompanied by my parents, Antonio Jenkins-Lara and Rose Jenkins,
00:17:41and my husband, Daniel Horner, whose encouragement and support has been
00:17:46unwavering. I would also like to thank my many mentors and other colleagues
00:17:50throughout my career who have taught and challenged me to be the best tax
00:17:54attorney that I can be, and provided me the opportunities that have led to me
00:17:57being here today. And I'm grateful to the President for nominating me and providing
00:18:02me the chance, if confirmed, to serve the tax system of which I have been a part my
00:18:06entire career. I've had a variety of roles in the tax system and have always
00:18:10been guided by a drive to make sense of the tax laws and apply them in a
00:18:14principled manner befitting our system of voluntary tax compliance. I've worked
00:18:19with taxpayers struggling to get their arms around the tax consequences of
00:18:22messy facts that often came about as a result of simply living their lives and
00:18:26operating their businesses. And I've worked with dedicated public servants
00:18:31who work zealously to ensure that not only the letter, but also the spirit of
00:18:35the law is followed. Ultimately, the complexity of the tax laws, the broad and
00:18:41uncertain scope of facts that may be relevant to any particular question, and
00:18:45the inherent tension between the IRS and taxpayers mean that there may be many
00:18:50cases in which they do not see eye-to-eye. That makes the mission of
00:18:54the tax court so critical. By providing a national forum for the expeditious
00:18:58resolution of disputes based on a careful consideration of the merits of
00:19:02each case, it instills confidence in taxpayers that they will receive a fair
00:19:06hearing. And the tax court's efforts to ensure a uniform interpretation of the
00:19:10code provide certainty and stability that benefits not only the taxpayers
00:19:14that appear before it, but all shareholders stakeholders in the tax
00:19:17system at large. In addition to allowing me to develop a deep understanding of
00:19:22particular areas of tax law, my career has given me an appreciation of the
00:19:26differing perspectives, not only between the government and taxpayers, but also
00:19:31among different types of taxpayers. That understanding, as well as the experience
00:19:35engaging in the collaborative, analytical, and decision-making processes
00:19:38entailed, will benefit me as a member of the tax court, working collegially to
00:19:43ensure uniform application of the law. More broadly, my experiences throughout
00:19:48my career have instilled in me a propensity for close, careful listening,
00:19:51and thorough, open-minded analysis and discussion, which are critical to fair
00:19:56and impartial judgment. If confirmed, I commit to maintaining these principles
00:20:00in service of the tax court's critical mission. I look forward to the committee's
00:20:04questions.
00:20:07Thank you very much. Mr. Landy.
00:20:10Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, Chairman Wyden, Ranking Member Crapo, and
00:20:14distinguished members of the Finance Committee. Thank you for scheduling this
00:20:18hearing and processing my nomination. Thank you to President Biden for
00:20:23nominating me to serve as a judge on the United States Tax Court. I am humbled and
00:20:29honored by the opportunity to continue to serve on the court, if I am fortunate
00:20:33to be confirmed. Thank you to Congressman Jim Clyburn for his introduction this
00:20:39morning, and for him and his staff for their support throughout this process. As
00:20:44native South Carolinians, my family and I are grateful to the Congressman for his
00:20:49service to this nation and our beloved home state. I acknowledge and thank my
00:20:55wife, Courtney, who is here this morning, as she is my best friend, my
00:20:59fiercest defender, and ultimate cheerleader. My sons, Brooks and Miles,
00:21:04whom I love so much, are here today. Because of them, I strive to be the best
00:21:09version of myself daily. My father, Robert, is watching remotely this
00:21:15morning, and I thank him for modeling hard work and tenacity. I honor the
00:21:19memory of my mother, Darlene, a former public school educator who instilled in
00:21:25me the importance of obtaining an education and being there for people in
00:21:30their time of need. Whether it was taking my siblings and me with her to deliver
00:21:36meals through the Meals on Wheels program, or encouraging me to become
00:21:41involved with the United Way of the Midlands, she made sure we understood the
00:21:45duty to give back to our community and to serve others. To my siblings, Erica,
00:21:52Marcus, and Jason, along with extended family members, my mother and father-in-law,
00:21:57Ricardo and Diane Wingate, my church family and friends who are watching
00:22:02remotely, thank you for your love, prayers, and support. Finally, I would like to
00:22:07thank the Chief Judge of the United States Tax Court, my fellow judicial
00:22:12officers on the court, Anita Rizek, legislative counsel for the court, and my
00:22:17former supervisors, Eric Doering, Nancy Gilmore, and Thomas Mackinson, for their
00:22:23support during the public phase of this nomination process. As a law student and
00:22:29young lawyer, I clerk for Judge J. Michelle Childs, now, as the Congressman
00:22:34said, a circuit judge for the United States Courts of Appeals for the D.C.
00:22:38Circuit, but then as a judge on the South Carolina Circuit Court. I learned from
00:22:43Judge Childs the importance of evaluating the party's arguments
00:22:47thoroughly, conducting comprehensive research to provide sound legal advice,
00:22:52and administering justice with a calm temperament. This experience is why I
00:22:58desire to become a judge. As a special trial judge, I have strived daily to
00:23:04implement these traits of proper judicial temperament and skill to
00:23:09competently serve the public. Since concluding my legal education, I
00:23:14represented taxpayers and the IRS before the tax court. As a tax lawyer, I acquired
00:23:21an understanding of the challenges taxpayers and the IRS face while
00:23:26developing solid listening and communication skills, strong research
00:23:30and writing skills, and good judgment. As a special trial judge, I demonstrate
00:23:35traits of proper judicial temperament and skill in conducting motions, hearings,
00:23:40and trials, and resolving tax disputes through written orders and published
00:23:46opinions. While the cases I will hear as a tax court judge, if I'm fortunate to be
00:23:52confirmed, will differ in the content and complexity from my current role, I will
00:23:57bring my current and prior professional experiences to this new role in
00:24:02adjudicating tax disputes in an impartial and expeditious manner. Mr.
00:24:08Chairman, Ranking Member Crapo, members of the committee, thank you for your
00:24:12consideration. I'm happy to answer any questions.
00:24:15Thank you very much, Mr. Landy, and let the record also show that Mr. Landy's
00:24:21children have been perfectly behaved. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Mr.
00:24:28Way, welcome. Thank you. Good morning. Chairman Wyden, Ranking Member Crapo, and
00:24:34members of the Finance Committee, thank you for holding this hearing to consider
00:24:38my nomination to serve as a judge on the United States Tax Court. I am honored to
00:24:43have been nominated by the President, and I greatly appreciate the opportunity to
00:24:47be here today. Thank you also to the committee staff for their assistance
00:24:51throughout this process. I am joined this morning by my wife, Diane, and my
00:24:55sons, Ian and Evan, whose love and support have been a continuous source of
00:24:59strength for me. I am also joined by my 81-year-old mother who flew in from
00:25:04California. She raised me as a single mom on a secretary's salary before going to
00:25:09night school to become a computer programmer. Without her as a role model, I
00:25:13certainly would not be here today. I also want to acknowledge Tom Barthold, my boss
00:25:18and the Chief of Staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation. Finally, I am
00:25:22grateful for the numerous friends and colleagues who are in attendance or
00:25:25watching virtually. For more than 19 years, I have been serving the Congress
00:25:29on the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation. During that time, I have worked
00:25:33under multiple chairmen from both parties, and my goal has always been to
00:25:37provide the best nonpartisan advice possible. As you all know, there is a lot
00:25:42of behind-the-scenes work that goes into every tax bill that comes up for a vote.
00:25:47The tax legislative process is one that requires thoughtfulness, patience, and
00:25:52dedication. It has truly been an honor and a privilege to help you prepare your
00:25:56legislation and advance your policies over these many years. As anyone who has
00:26:01filed a tax return knows, our tax system is complicated and can frustrate even
00:26:06well-intentioned taxpayers. The Tax Court affords taxpayers a crucial forum for
00:26:11resolving civil disputes with the IRS. It is my desire to contribute to the
00:26:16fairness of the tax system by helping to resolve these disputes in a manner
00:26:20that ensures taxpayers have the opportunity to be heard and pay no more
00:26:24than what is required under the law. If I am confirmed, I will take the skills I
00:26:29have learned on the Joint Committee staff to serve the country in a
00:26:32different capacity. In particular, I will continue to work thoughtfully, patiently,
00:26:37and with dedication to ensure fairness in the tax system. If confirmed as a
00:26:43judge, I promise to impartially apply the law to the facts before me in the
00:26:47resolution of tax disputes. Thank you again for the opportunity to appear today
00:26:52and I look forward to your questions. Thank you very much. Now I think the
00:26:55nominees know we've got some obligatory questions that we have to ask each of
00:27:00you. First, is there anything that you're aware of in your background that might
00:27:03present a conflict of interest with the duties of the office to which you've
00:27:06been nominated? No, Senator. No. Second, do you know of any reason personal or
00:27:15otherwise that would in any way prevent you from fully and honorably discharging
00:27:18the responsibilities of the office to which you've been nominated? No. No. No.
00:27:25Third, do you agree without reservation to respond to any reasonable summons to
00:27:30appear and testify before any duly constituted committee of the Congress if
00:27:33you're confirmed? I do agree. Yes. Yes. Yes. Finally, do you commit to provide a
00:27:40prompt response in writing to any questions addressed to you by any
00:27:43senator of the committee? Yes. Yes. Yes, Mr. Chairman. Yes. Mr. Wade, did you respond?
00:27:51Yes, I did. Yes, I agree. Great. Thank you all and let's go now to questions. Let me
00:28:00start with you, Mr. Ives. You are certainly well qualified and I look at
00:28:06your experience and oversight and so many issues and they've been on
00:28:10high-profile matters. There is one area and I think we've indicated this to you
00:28:17where we need reassurance before advancing your nomination and that is we
00:28:21ask a lot of our inspector generals and particularly the Treasury Office of
00:28:27Inspector General. They do great work at the direction of the Congress ferreting
00:28:31out waste, fraud, and abuse on programs that are critical to our country and the
00:28:38office does sterling work in that regard and your resume makes me believe that
00:28:43you're well equipped to lead the office on these matters. Unfortunately, when it
00:28:49comes to issues of wrongdoing, corruption, conflicts of interest, or abuse of power
00:28:54among officials at the Treasury Department, time and again we've seen the
00:29:00Office of Inspector General pull its punches. Investigations aren't thorough or
00:29:05stop just short of making tough decisions. It has been, and I want to be
00:29:10clear about it, disappointing and it is unacceptable. So my question to you, Mr.
00:29:17Ives, is when it comes to difficult high-profile issues, how can you assure
00:29:23the Finance Committee this morning that you'll be a tough investigator and speak
00:29:28truth to power and when have you done so in the past?
00:29:53For example, just last week an investigation involving a very senior military official, now a
00:30:08former military official, who has been charged with bribery was reported in
00:30:13media circles and my organization played a very critical role in that
00:30:18investigation. Obviously that type of investigation doesn't display the
00:30:23department in a favorable light, but I have never shied away from work that
00:30:29may require me to speak truth to power. It comes with the territory and frankly
00:30:35an IG would be wholly ineffective if he or she were unwilling to do so.
00:30:41Thank you and you can be certain that the Senators on both sides of the dais are
00:30:47going to follow this up and keep that commitment that you've made today and in
00:30:52place. The stakes are just so high. Thank you for your answer. All right, let's go
00:30:56now to our tax court nominees. It's my view that the three of you are very
00:31:02qualified individuals, certainly cumulatively you have decades of
00:31:07experience and I would be interested, we can just go for the three of you, Ms.
00:31:13Jenkins, Mr. Landy, Mr. Way, down the table and I'd be interested in what past
00:31:19experiences are going to most shape your time on the tax court. Ms. Jenkins.
00:31:25Thank you for the question, Chairman. My experience, particularly working on
00:31:30guidance and commenting on guidance from outside of the IRS, I think has been most
00:31:34relevant to my future work in that it has taught me the value of listening to
00:31:39different perspectives and understanding that the different perspectives shape
00:31:44taxpayers' interactions with the government and I look forward to
00:31:48continuing to consider the different perspectives of various taxpayers
00:31:53as they interact with the government in front of the tax court. And Mr.
00:31:59Landy, for your question, I'd like to hear what past experiences will most shape
00:32:07your time on the tax court. Thank you for that question, Mr. Chairman. Certainly my
00:32:11past experience working as taxpayer counsel in private practice and also
00:32:18volunteering, as you heard this morning, with the Volunteer Income Tax Assistance
00:32:22Program has shaped me to certainly be able to understand the challenges
00:32:28taxpayers face, to ask the right questions, to elicit the answers that is
00:32:34necessary to provide sound legal advice and to provide a conclusion, hopefully a
00:32:41result that would be of assistance to them. And so those past experiences I
00:32:45bring with me to this role in addition to my current role as a special trial
00:32:49judge on the court. I was particularly impressed with that experience
00:32:53volunteering because when I was getting out of law school years ago, I got all
00:33:00the attorneys in town to volunteer to come and in effect help start the Senior
00:33:05Citizens Law Service and it sounds like your background sounds very similar. Mr.
00:33:10Way, your past experiences shaping your time on the court. Well certainly at the
00:33:15on the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation, we consider a number of
00:33:20different perspectives. We always try to be honest brokers in a nonpartisan way.
00:33:25We work with Republicans and Democrats and and try to give the best tax advice
00:33:31possible and I think certainly that experience has has influenced me and my
00:33:37perspective and if I was confirmed as a judge I would I would try and bring that
00:33:41experience in that perspective and and listen to all sides and try to be as
00:33:45fair as possible and take all different perspectives into consideration. I think
00:33:50all four of you are gonna serve as excellent appointees and I look forward
00:33:54to supporting you and we thank you. Senator Crapo. Thank you Mr. Chairman and
00:33:57I'd like to say first of all to each of you that I appreciated Senator Wyden's
00:34:02questions and your answers to them. It was very helpful and my questions are
00:34:07gonna follow up in a little bit different way the same approach. First
00:34:12again Mr. Ives, you've overseen accounts with significant interest from Congress
00:34:17in the Inspector General's offices at both the Department of Defense and NASA.
00:34:21While it's important for IGs to be independent from their parent agencies
00:34:26leaders, Congress is a very specific and important principal stakeholder of the
00:34:33results of IG reviews through committee oversight and we take that oversight
00:34:38very seriously. How would you ensure that Congress stays informed on ongoing
00:34:45investigations at the Treasury IG office and a follow-up on that is can you
00:34:49discuss your interactions in the past with authorizing and appropriations
00:34:54committees in your IG roles?
00:35:02I have been serving over 30 years in the office of Inspector General of a couple different organizations. I completely understand the relevance and
00:35:09importance of Congress's oversight role so I will do everything within my power
00:35:13to ensure that Congress has the information they need in furtherance of
00:35:19that role. I have always taken that approach. With regard to my past
00:35:23interactions with Congress staff, it has been extensive. I have always
00:35:29been quick to reply when receiving requests for information from Congress.
00:35:36Obviously there are some factors that come into play in the investigative
00:35:39world, you know criminal investigations have to be complete before the
00:35:42information is passed along, but again the advantage I have is having worked
00:35:47over 30 years in the OIG community, I understand that Congress's oversight
00:35:51role is just as important as the OIG's oversight role. Thank you, I appreciate
00:35:56that answer. You will get a lot of input and requests from us. And to each of the
00:36:02tax court nominees, each of you has already responded in your own way to the
00:36:09issue that I want to raise with you, but I'd like you to do so again with a
00:36:14little more specificity on the way I'm going to put it. If confirmed, you will
00:36:20preside over cases that involve taxpayers who often have few resources
00:36:25to deploy while making their case, yet the Internal Revenue Service is a very
00:36:32formidable opponent on the other side of the case. How does your professional
00:36:37experience lend itself to ensuring that these taxpayers will be treated not only
00:36:42with the respect and dignity they need, but with the fairness that they hope
00:36:47they will get? Thank you for the question, Senator. As a preliminary matter, I would
00:36:53be sure to ensure that taxpayers who appear before the court unrepresented
00:36:58are aware of the of the resources that may be available to them for assistance,
00:37:02including low-income taxpayer clinics and assistance from bar programs who may
00:37:07have pro bono programs. I would also be sure to ensure that they understand the
00:37:12process and that they know that they have an impartial and open ear in me and
00:37:18and make sure that they're comfortable proceeding before the court because I
00:37:22think that's very important to ensure that that taxpayers who are not as
00:37:25comfortable with the tax court proceedings feel that they are receiving
00:37:29a full hearing. Thank you. Mr. Landy. Ranking Member Crapo, thank you for that
00:37:35question. In my current role now as a special trial judge, I try to allow
00:37:43self-represented litigants to be heard and I do that by making sure when there
00:37:49is a trial session that has been scheduled about three weeks from out of
00:37:53the trial session, I attempt to call and have a conference call with the
00:37:58self-represented litigants to, number one, introduce myself as I will be the
00:38:03presiding judge over your case, introduce myself, talk about the process, ask them
00:38:09if they have any concerns and we talk through what are the issues that the IRS
00:38:14has raised in the notice of deficiency and so they have an idea as to what they
00:38:21need to bring if they've not already provided to the IRS for review, make sure
00:38:26they have a trial so they know what what the expectations will be and at trial I
00:38:33allow the taxpayers petitioners to proceed in a manner that is most
00:38:38comfortable to them. Certainly want to understand the facts of the case so that
00:38:43as a judge I could apply the law as to those facts so certainly keeping and be
00:38:49in communication with the taxpayer. Thank you. And Mr. Way. Yes, Senator Crapo, thank
00:38:55you for the question. Certainly I agree with you that it's
00:39:00important that self-represented taxpayers have an opportunity to be
00:39:04heard in in a in a fair and equitable way. My experience on the on the Joint
00:39:09Committee staff, we certainly have sometimes we have tax LA's or people or
00:39:14outside groups that come in. Some of them are very sophisticated, some of them are
00:39:17less sophisticated and you know we we adjust the the kind of a conversation we
00:39:23have based on on how much you know knowledge about tax that they have. Now
00:39:27certainly it's a different context being a judge with this with respect to
00:39:32a self-represented taxpayer but I agree with my fellow nominees that it's an
00:39:37important issue and that I would listen and try and make make those self-represented
00:39:42taxpayers have every have an ability to be heard and and present their cases to
00:39:51the best way possible. Thank you. Again I appreciated each of your responses.
00:39:58Thank you, Senator Crapo. Senator Grafley? Mr. Ives, was you talked about something
00:40:07you caught in the Defense Department people stealing money. Was that that lady
00:40:13that stole 106 million dollars? It was not. Okay. Now for my first question to
00:40:25the tax court's nominees, I don't want you to answer today unless you can
00:40:30answer this question with full knowledge of what the law is. So if you can't then
00:40:36answer these questions in writing. But I want to start with this opening. I
00:40:41authored important updates to the IRS whistleblower program which included
00:40:47allowing whistleblowers to appeal award determinations to the tax court. More
00:40:52recently I've introduced legislation with Chairman Wyden, Senators Wicker and
00:40:58Cardin to among other provisions beef up anonymity protection for whistleblowers
00:41:05appearing before the tax court. Whistleblowers are often take on great
00:41:11professional and personal risks in coming forward. So this is the question.
00:41:16Do you agree that protecting the anonymity of whistleblowers before the
00:41:22tax courts is vital to maintaining the well-functioning IRS whistleblower
00:41:28program? Start with you Ms. Jenkins. Thank you for the question Senator. I do
00:41:32agree that in our system of involuntary tax compliance it is very important to
00:41:36protect whistleblowers and and the role that they serve in ensuring that we
00:41:40collect our tax dollars. I would need to consider more the the countervailing
00:41:45factors in terms of privacy of an anonymity of whistleblowers in order to
00:41:50answer your specific question. Okay Mr. Landy. Thank you Senator. I certainly
00:41:55agree with the comments Ms. Jenkins made. I have not seen your legislation you
00:42:00referenced but certainly whistleblowers play an important role in our tax
00:42:05compliance system as Ms. Jenkins said and I would certainly believe that that
00:42:10is an issue that we can make sure that they have the ability to present their
00:42:17cases in a fair and impartial manner before our court. Mr. Wade. Thank you for
00:42:22the question. I definitely agree with my fellow nominees and with the direction
00:42:27of your question which is that whistleblowers are are important and it's
00:42:32important not just what they have to say but to protect them so that you know new
00:42:35new whistleblowers will not feel deterred from coming forward. With
00:42:40respect to your specific legislation that you've introduced I'm not familiar
00:42:44with it so I would have to review it and then respond in writing. Okay by the way
00:42:50Ms. Jenkins you're taking the place of Elizabeth Parris and she worked for this
00:42:58committee a long time and her trophy she carried around was a well-worn
00:43:04tax code and she always had it with her. Okay Mr. Ives. On March the 11th 2024 I
00:43:13wrote all 74 inspector generals requesting that they conduct a review of
00:43:19their agency's non-disclosure policies and similar agreements. I asked for that
00:43:25review to ensure compliance with the federal anti-gag law. Now that is law
00:43:31today. That law requires that government policies and agreements include the
00:43:38right to report wrongdoing to Congress and Inspector General and the Office of
00:43:44Special Counsel. On May the 10th 2024 the acting Treasury Inspector General found
00:43:51two agreements not in compliance with the law and that the Treasury Department
00:43:56is working to update them. So my question to you if confirmed would you commit to
00:44:02ensuring all Treasury non-disclosure policies and similar agreements include
00:44:08the anti-gag provision that's required by law including the two agreements
00:44:14identified by the acting Inspector General and then a follow-up would you
00:44:20also commit to ensuring Treasury employees are fully informed of their
00:44:24rights to report allegations of waste fraud and abuse? The answer to both
00:44:31questions is yes Senator. Thank you. Now also for you an independent Inspector
00:44:37General is critical to effectively and objectively carrying out functions free
00:44:44from bias and interference. Inspector General must also keep Congress fully
00:44:50informed about the problems and deficiencies. So from that respect I
00:44:54should have said I just associate my remarks with the chairman and ranking
00:44:59member. So a question to you if confirmed will you commit to providing
00:45:04independent and objective oversight? You probably already answered that question
00:45:09but I'd like to have it answered again and will you also commit to keeping
00:45:13Congress fully informed of agency wrongdoing recommendations of corrective
00:45:18action and Treasury implementation? Yes I will Senator. Okay thank you. Now to all
00:45:27tax court nominees if you're confirmed to the tax court you will hear cases
00:45:33involving many different types of taxpayers ranging from large
00:45:37corporations to small businesses and individuals. Regardless of who might
00:45:42appear before you and what the issue might be do you pledge to apply tax code
00:45:49as written by Congress and not attempt to legislate in your capacity as a judge
00:45:55on the tax court? Yes I do Senator. Yes Senator. Yes Senator. Okay and my last
00:46:04question to you folks the tax court is important since this allows petitioners
00:46:11to challenge and assess deficiency before having to pay that amount to the
00:46:16IRS. Many petitioners go to tax court have little experience working through
00:46:22the dispute with the IRS and may even represent themselves following up on the
00:46:28question that Crapo asked without giving them an unfair advantage how will you
00:46:34ensure that all petitioners get their day in court? Senator I would ensure that
00:46:41they're aware of the resources that may be available to them for support and I
00:46:45would also ensure that they are aware of the processes going going forward and
00:46:49that they have in me a fair and open ear. Senator as I said earlier I would
00:46:55continue with my current processes of contacting the petitioners before trial
00:47:01to make sure they understand when where their trial will be conducted, communicate
00:47:06what issues are in at issue and to make sure they understand the procedure and
00:47:12process moving forward. And like my fellow nominees I would try to make sure
00:47:20that particularly self-represented taxpayers have an opportunity to access
00:47:25volunteer resources or or pro bono resources so that they can get
00:47:29representation if they choose and if they appear before me and are
00:47:33self-represented I would try to have some sort of pre-trial conference or
00:47:37something as my fellow nominee suggested so that they are aware of what you know
00:47:41what will happen and how best to proceed. Congratulations. And thank you very much
00:47:47Senator Grassley for asking the questions about the whistleblowers and it's an
00:47:51honor for me to be your co-chair. Senator Warren is next. Thank You Mr. Chairman and
00:47:56congratulations to all of our nominees. Mr. Ives you are nominated to be the
00:48:02Inspector General for the Treasury Department. Now I've long been a supporter
00:48:06of IG's. I think their work as watchdogs is critical to protecting taxpayers and
00:48:12identifying waste fraud and abuse. This role is particularly important when it
00:48:18comes to federal ethics laws. It's an area where I've been calling for tougher
00:48:23laws and tougher enforcement for years and it's an area where IG's need to do
00:48:28more. Two years ago an investigation by my office found that dozens of tax
00:48:34lawyers at big four accounting firms had taken key positions at Treasury and
00:48:40the IRS where they wrote tax rules that saved their former clients tens of
00:48:46billions of dollars. That's billions with a B. And then these tax lawyers went
00:48:52right back out the revolving door to their old employers receiving big
00:48:57promotions and raises to boot. Mr. Ives do you agree that this kind of revolving
00:49:03door abuse is exactly the issue that merits the detailed investigation by an
00:49:10IG? I absolutely agree Senator. Good. Well I asked the acting IG to investigate this
00:49:17revolving door scandal at Treasury more than two years ago and he finally
00:49:22released his findings in March and let me tell you it was not worth the wait.
00:49:28The report concluded the Treasury employees rewriting our tax code for the
00:49:34benefit of giant corporations they used to work for couldn't be a problem
00:49:40because and I quote, Treasury's tax guidance review process includes
00:49:47numerous stages of review and approval and multiple individuals. That's it. And
00:49:55because of that the acting IG did not bother to conduct any audit of employer
00:50:01self-reporting of potential conflicts. He did not conduct a detailed review of any
00:50:07single agency policy or agency rulemaking. Mr. Ives does that make sense
00:50:14to you? Do you think the mere existence of numerous stages of review and
00:50:21approval are enough to insulate the department from the impact of revolving
00:50:26door influence peddling? Without speaking to the the specific report my answer is
00:50:32no. I am aware of many situations whereby there was a lengthy review process in
00:50:38place yet conflicts of interest existed and they were matters that warranted
00:50:42investigation. I am glad to hear that. You know this report and its conclusions were
00:50:49atrocious. A whitewash of what appears to be serious ethics problems at Treasury
00:50:57and IRS. I wrote to the acting IG and told him to withdraw this report and
00:51:03start over and I'd like to move to have that letter entered into the hearing
00:51:07record Mr. Chairman. I'm sorry. I would like to have my letter to the acting IG entered into the record.
00:51:16Without objection, so ordered. Thank you. Mr. Ives, if you are confirmed will you take a
00:51:22fresh look at this revolving door ethics problem at Treasury? I will Senator.
00:51:27That's what I want to hear. Thank you Mr. Ives. You know the work that IGs do is
00:51:32essential to ensuring that the federal government works for hard-working
00:51:37American taxpayers not just big corporations and fancy tax lawyers in
00:51:43Washington. In addition to digging into this specific scandal with the big four
00:51:49accounting firms, I hope that more broadly you will make ethics and
00:51:54conflicts of interest a priority if you are confirmed. It is critical that IGs
00:52:01investigate these matters, identify whether any laws have been broken and
00:52:06this is important, report to Congress if you find that the current federal ethics
00:52:13laws are inadequate and need to be strengthened. I agree Senator. Thank you
00:52:17very much. Thank You Mr. Chairman. I thank my colleague and these are important
00:52:22issues and I raised with Mr. Ives this question as well about this position you
00:52:27know pulling punches in the past so we're gonna be making these a priority.
00:52:31Senator Blackburn. Thank You Mr. Chairman and welcome to each of you. Mr. Ives, I've
00:52:39got a couple of questions for you first. I want to talk about or get from you a
00:52:46little bit on this issue where Treasury changed the definition of obligation for
00:52:53the ARPA funds to allow states and localities to spend that slush fund that
00:53:00was paid out to them to spend it past 2024 and then report that spending back
00:53:11to Treasury. So I would hope that you would look at what happened with this
00:53:18change of definition and if you're going to investigate how Treasury took that
00:53:25action, didn't come to Congress but took that action. Thank you for the question
00:53:30Senator. Candidly you know I'm not currently working at Treasury. I'll need
00:53:33to be briefed more fully on that topic but it appears to be a significant topic
00:53:38that warrants IG attention. Yes I think it does warrant the IG attention and we
00:53:43would like to see that. The other that I have for you is on the unemployment
00:53:48compensation fraud that has taken place. When you look at that fraud that took
00:53:55place during the pandemic and the estimate of a hundred and thirty five
00:53:59billion on that CARES Act provided 268 billion in expanded insurance benefits
00:54:09and then we know that much of this fraud was conducted by some well-organized
00:54:15groups and because the benefits were paid with money from the Treasury and
00:54:23not the state trust funds, states are having little incentive to go after this
00:54:29and of course Senator Crapo has legislation that would address this but
00:54:36how do you plan to prevent these instances? What are you going to do in
00:54:42that investigation? Thank you for the question Senator. First and foremost my
00:54:45understanding is that Treasury IG is currently prioritizing those types of
00:54:49investigations. If I were confirmed they would continue to do so. I think there
00:54:53is more that can be done on the front end when those types of legislation are
00:54:57being put together and when Treasury is formulated in its own policies as far as
00:55:02working with the IG to establish some controls that should be in place to
00:55:06avoid the fraud which obviously is more effective than going after each
00:55:09individual investment case. For our tax court nominees one of the things we hear
00:55:16about in Tennessee is the backlog and the case backlog and getting this
00:55:21resolved. So Ms. Jenkins starting with you and down the line what are you going
00:55:26to do to address the backlog? Thank you Senator. I do think given the
00:55:31significant caseload of the tax court it will be important to have a full slate
00:55:34of appointed judges. If confirmed I would endeavor to maximize my
00:55:40efficiency and in terms of case management, courtroom management, chambers
00:55:45management and also encourage the parties to maximize cooperation and seek
00:55:50to determine ways that I can run things more efficiently perhaps deciding cases
00:55:57or issues on motions as opposed to needing to wait and conduct trials. So
00:56:01those are all things that I would try to do to minimize the backlog. Thanks. Thank
00:56:05you for that question Senator. Certainly my commitment to you is that I will work
00:56:10with the parties, have a speedy as we can trial and to offer an opinion and
00:56:17expeditious resolution of the case if that's through written order or published
00:56:22opinion in a short amount of time. Thank you. Like my fellow nominees I would also
00:56:29try to expedite the trial sessions and the pretrial procedures to try and get
00:56:35things moving more quickly and try to I don't want to say there's a specific
00:56:43docket and judges go to different cities but I also understand there's an
00:56:46opportunity to do remote pretrial management and so I would try and use
00:56:51those processes also to try and expedite cases. Okay. Judge Landy, I understand
00:56:58that as a special trial judge that you have done a good bit of your work
00:57:05remotely and virtually and I would like to hear from you are there any
00:57:12differences that you've seen in the virtual work as compared to doing this
00:57:19in person? Thank you for that question Senator. I've certainly came on the court
00:57:25during the pandemic and virtual was the option at the time and certainly the
00:57:31court will continue to use virtual where in those cities where it makes sense and
00:57:38for those taxpayers specifically where it makes sense but my experience with
00:57:43virtual has certainly been similar to if we were in person to offer the taxpayers
00:57:49an opportunity to present their case in the manner they proceed and to offer a
00:57:54fair and impartial resolution of their cases. Okay. Thank you all. Thank you Mr.
00:58:00Chairman. Thank my colleague. Senator Crapo and I have completed our
00:58:04questioning but our colleague Senator Grassley has one additional question he'd
00:58:09like to ask of you Mr. Ives. Just to ask you kind of for your help you know I
00:58:14brought up about the 106 million dollar theft that went on in the Defense
00:58:19Department. Now you said you aren't investigating that so obviously I can't
00:58:24ask you anything about that but I've asked several questions of the
00:58:29department about how this could be going on for a theft over six years and
00:58:33nobody finds it and so I guess number one if you could help get answers to my
00:58:42question but more importantly I sent along with my questions a 1997 report
00:58:49that I issued after some investigations about the DOD check writing machine that
00:58:56goes on in Cincinnati or data someplace in Ohio and people were writing personal
00:59:03checks to their families and I so I investigated I got an answer I gave a
00:59:09report of what was wrong with the Defense Department management system
00:59:14that they don't catch these things and so I put out this report so I read about
00:59:20a hundred and six million dollars over six years being spent stolen by one
00:59:25woman in the Defense Department and so I sent this report along as a reminder
00:59:31that we've been working on this thing for a long time and 27 years was a long
00:59:37time to get something done so the stealing doesn't go on and I hopes
00:59:42people will read that 1997 report and and find out that things are things are
00:59:50really wrong in the Defense Department thank you very much I I thank my
00:59:55colleague and we go back to battles with respect to auditing the Pentagon and the
01:00:00like and so I appreciate my colleagues leadership okay so I want to thank all
01:00:06the members on both sides of the aisle who participated today based on what
01:00:10I've heard I strongly support all four of these nominations Mr. Ives has
01:00:16decades of experience and oversight and law enforcement and I want to note that
01:00:21several of us have asked about what's going to be done if you're confirmed as
01:00:26the Treasury IG and you've made it clear when it comes to issues of wrongdoing
01:00:31corruption conflicts of interest or abuse of power among officials at the
01:00:35Treasury Department if you are confirmed the days of pulling punches are over
01:00:41there and so we very much appreciated your response to you miss Jenkins mr.
01:00:47Landy mr. way I believe you're highly qualified you're going to bring decades
01:00:51of public and private experience to the tax courts and what I would say to to
01:00:57colleagues and staff who haven't been able to be here regarding questions for
01:01:00the record the deadline for members to submit these questions for the record
01:01:04will be this Friday June 7th at 5 p.m. and I have to tell my colleague that the
01:01:10deadline is firmed we thank members on both sides of the aisle for their
01:01:14cooperation the committee is adjourned