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Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH) leads a Senate Appropriations Committee hearing on the fiscal year 2025 budget request for the FBI.

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Transcript
00:00:00 Welcome to today's hearing to review the president's fiscal year 2025 funding request for the Federal Bureau of Investigation
00:00:07 Our witness today is FBI director Christopher Ray director Ray welcome. It's nice to have you back before this committee
00:00:15 Attorney general Garland was before this subcommittee in April and we discussed the fundamentally different position
00:00:22 We are in now compared to what we were in last year our fiscal year
00:00:27 2023 bill made notable increases to the Justice Department's law enforcement
00:00:32 components the fiscal year
00:00:34 2024 was a very far different outcome for the subcommittee and for the department the significant cuts in
00:00:42 2024 came as a result of the fiscal responsibility acts discretionary spending limits
00:00:47 So our bill faced a 3% cut compared to FY 23
00:00:53 That's roughly 2.5 billion dollars less than we had in the prior year
00:00:58 In each of our hearings this year
00:01:01 I've tried to raise concerns about the ongoing constraints of the fiscal responsibility act and the continued cuts to
00:01:09 discretionary spending
00:01:10 These cuts have real consequences and I'm hoping we will hear more from you this afternoon
00:01:17 About what those consequences mean for the FBI and how they impact the safety and security of the American people
00:01:24 The Bureau's already provided a good example of some of these impacts
00:01:28 Despite what appears to be a relatively modest cut of 32 million dollars or 0.3 percent in
00:01:36 FY24 to the FBI salaries and expenses the amount needed for the FBI to maintain
00:01:42 Just its current services is actually
00:01:46 384 million more than what we funded
00:01:49 The FBI's fiscal year 25 budget request is eleven point three billion dollars
00:01:59 661 million above last year it includes program enhancements for cyber investigative capabilities
00:02:07 Mitigating threats from foreign intelligence services and to address the increased volume of firearms background checks
00:02:15 The request would also allow the FBI to fund critical national security and law enforcement
00:02:20 positions that were reduced as a result of the FY24 appropriations
00:02:25 We also hope to hear from you about the FBI's ongoing work to address escalating threats that face our country
00:02:32 Including how the FBI is working with its federal state and local law enforcement
00:02:37 Partners to fight illicit drugs coming into the country and how the FBI is working to protect children
00:02:44 particularly from online threats and exploitation
00:02:46 Now before I close my opening remarks
00:02:50 I would like to thank the employees of the FBI for their dedication and service to our country
00:02:55 Especially when we are asking them to do more with less to keep us safe
00:03:00 Director Wray, I look forward to your testimony in our discussion today, and now I will
00:03:04 Recognize the subcommittees ranking member senator Moran for his opening remarks senator Sheen. Thank you for convening our hearing director Wray
00:03:13 Welcome back to this Commerce Justice Science subcommittee
00:03:16 I appreciated your time as I indicated just a moment ago in your remarks at the University of Kansas this past April at the annual FBI
00:03:24 and KU cyber security conference
00:03:26 The quality of the speakers and the panel suggest to me that this will become a premier annual cyber event
00:03:32 And I hope you will continue to join us
00:03:34 We'll try to do it during basketball season if you prefer
00:03:38 Ability of our nation in both government and private sector to deter and neutralize
00:03:42 Cyber attacks from having their intended effect is essential to our national security and to our economy
00:03:49 These new challenges and dangers require a capable qualified and well-trained workforce to combat the threats
00:03:55 In addition to that I want to discuss national security crisis at the southern border
00:04:00 President Biden just signed an executive order to limit claims of asylum for those entering our country
00:04:07 While action by the president is needed. I'm doubtful that this
00:04:11 executive order will make the necessary changes to ensure an
00:04:15 Operational control of our border and that we know who why and where people are crossing into our country
00:04:23 Last month it was reported that a suspected member of ISIS had been freely living in the United States after illegally crossing the southern border
00:04:32 Nonetheless it would take more than two years before that person was arrested on April the 17th in another case an individual on the terrorist
00:04:40 Watch list was similarly released by the Border Patrol after crossing the southern border
00:04:43 I recognize that these cases most directly implicate failures at DHS
00:04:48 But the FBI also plays a major role in national security screening and facilitating the sharing of information
00:04:53 across our government our world and our country have become more dangerous our
00:04:59 Adversaries are coordinating with the intention of doing harm to the US our allies and our partners
00:05:03 the conflicts overseas present clear threats here at home as
00:05:07 Russia wages its illegal and unjust invasion of Ukraine. It's widely reported that Moscow is
00:05:13 Engaged in asymmetric activities such as sabotage in Western Europe
00:05:17 I would like you to address if we are seeing signs of that in
00:05:21 Our own country the ongoing war in Gaza has the potential to inspire terrorists around the globe
00:05:26 We cannot be complacent about in believing in America will be immune and Jewish Americans should not have to live in fear
00:05:33 And the Chinese regime continues its efforts to steal intellectual property threatened
00:05:38 Critical infrastructure and on this anniversary of Tiananmen Square has established police stations in the US to harass Chinese dissent dissents
00:05:47 dissidents who find freedom in our country
00:05:49 You recently said director the PRC has made it clear that it considers every sector that makes our society run
00:05:56 fair game
00:05:57 It's clear the conflicts abroad present real challenges at home
00:06:01 Compounding those challenges are distinct vulnerabilities on our borders our means of communication and our technology systems
00:06:08 Director you have a wide array of challenges in front of you and the FBI
00:06:13 It seems almost insurmountable the things that we face today
00:06:18 I look forward to hearing from you how our budget can help better support the work the FBI does
00:06:25 to mitigate these growing threats address the crisis at our southern border and
00:06:29 Ultimately keep Americans safe. Thank you and the people who work at the FBI for your efforts in that regard
00:06:35 And I thank you also for being here today
00:06:37 Thank you very much. Senator Moran vice chair Collins. Would you like to make an opening statement?
00:06:42 Thank you very much madam chair
00:06:47 first welcome director Ray
00:06:51 Let me start by just saying that I appreciate very much your efforts to warn
00:06:57 policymakers and the American public about the threat of a terrorist attack
00:07:04 We tend to be very focused on the great power
00:07:08 competition with China and Russia and Iran
00:07:14 North Korea being major threats to us
00:07:17 But in fact in my judgment the most imminent threat that we face is that of a terrorist attack
00:07:25 And I share your assessment that everywhere we look the lights are blinking red to quote you
00:07:32 previously
00:07:34 the withdrawal of US forces from Afghanistan the rise of the Taliban once again a
00:07:41 reconstituted Isis K
00:07:45 Iran's deployment of proxy forces in the Middle East the
00:07:50 Chaos at our southern borders and indeed our northern border as well
00:07:55 has allowed terrorists into our country and
00:08:00 surging
00:08:02 anti-americanism have all combined to dramatically
00:08:05 Increase the threat of terrorist attacks in our country and aimed at our allies abroad
00:08:14 That is an issue that I will want to address with you today
00:08:18 the second issue which we have talked about before is the
00:08:25 absolutely stunning
00:08:28 increase the shocking increase in
00:08:30 illegal marijuana growing
00:08:33 operations in rural homes in Maine that are often run by Chinese nationals I
00:08:41 Brought this up to you at the worldwide threats
00:08:44 briefing a month ago, and I have raised the issue with the
00:08:51 Attorney General
00:08:53 Just this past Thursday the Somerset County Sheriff's Office shut down a growing
00:08:59 operation in a house that contained
00:09:03 1,500
00:09:05 recently harvested marijuana plants more than 30 pounds of processed marijuana and
00:09:11 illicit drug related materials all of which were seized this particular growing operation
00:09:19 Was located adjacent to a daycare center
00:09:23 The Attorney General has committed to having the Department of Justice more actively involved
00:09:32 along with other federal agencies in
00:09:35 Helping state county and local law enforcement in Maine. I would note Maine is not alone in
00:09:43 experiencing this enormous increase the estimates are that there are between a
00:09:49 150 and 200 of these sites yet to be dealt with in the state of Maine
00:09:57 But we're not alone. There are about 20 states and
00:10:01 I will be asking you this morning your assessment what the FBI is doing
00:10:07 specifically and whether you have
00:10:10 information about the involvement of
00:10:13 transnational Chinese
00:10:16 criminal
00:10:18 Organizations, so those are two of my greatest concerns and I look forward to our dialogue today
00:10:24 Thank you, and the members of the FBI for all you do
00:10:29 Thank You Senator Collins, Director Wray, the floor is yours
00:10:32 Good afternoon Chair Shaheen, Ranking Member Moran and members of the subcommittee
00:10:51 I am proud to be here today representing the 38,000 men and women who make up the FBI
00:10:58 Every day our people are working relentlessly to outpace our
00:11:03 adversaries and stay ahead of complex and evolving threats
00:11:08 So I'd first like to thank you for your support over the years of our efforts to achieve our mission of
00:11:15 protecting the American people and upholding the Constitution
00:11:19 At the same time I also
00:11:22 realize the reality of the environment we're in today where so many agencies are dealing with tightening budgets and
00:11:29 This year the FBI has been one of those agencies with our fiscal year 2024 budget having now come in
00:11:37 almost five hundred million dollars below what the FBI needs just to sustain our
00:11:44 2023 efforts and while I very much appreciate this subcommittee's efforts to blunt any cuts
00:11:51 Candidly this could not come at a worse time
00:11:54 When I sat here last year, I walked through how we were already in a heightened threat environment and
00:12:02 Since then we've seen the threat from foreign terrorists rise to a whole nother level
00:12:08 After October 7th, we continue to see the cartels push fentanyl and other dangerous drugs into every corner of the
00:12:17 country claiming countless
00:12:19 American lives we've seen a spate of
00:12:22 ransomware attacks and other cyber attacks impacting parts of our critical infrastructure and businesses both large and small
00:12:29 Violent crime which reached alarming levels coming out of the pandemic
00:12:35 Remains far too high and is impacting far too many communities China
00:12:40 Continues its relentless efforts to steal our intellectual property and most valuable information
00:12:47 And that's just scratching the surface
00:12:49 When I look back over my career in law enforcement
00:12:53 I would be hard-pressed to think of a time when so many different threats to our public safety and national security
00:13:00 Were so elevated all at the same time, but that is the case as I sit here today
00:13:07 And while we have always found ways at the FBI to innovate and make the most with what we have
00:13:13 This is by no means a time to let up or dial back
00:13:18 This is a time when we need your support
00:13:20 The most and I look forward to working with this subcommittee to get things back on track
00:13:25 Because right now we need investments in our people and the resources required to keep Americans safe
00:13:34 Now I will stack the FBI's workforce up against anyone anywhere anytime they are innovative
00:13:42 They're efficient. They're relentless
00:13:44 They're patriots and we have been fortunate at the FBI in recent years that our recruiting has gone through the roof
00:13:51 Americans are applying in droves to devote their lives to a career with us
00:13:56 protecting others
00:13:58 but we need more positions to be able to bring all the good people we can to the fight certainly not fewer and
00:14:06 As great as our people are we also need to equip them with the necessary tools required to tackle
00:14:12 Today's threats now is not the time for less to fulfill our mission the men women of the FBI
00:14:19 need more
00:14:21 terrorism
00:14:22 Just in the time that I've been FBI director
00:14:25 We've disrupted multiple terrorist attacks in cities and communities around the country. We need funding to continue protecting
00:14:33 America from terrorism I touched on this earlier
00:14:36 But there was already a heightened risk of violence in the United States before October 7th. And since then
00:14:42 We've seen a rogues gallery of foreign terrorist organizations call for attacks
00:14:47 against Americans and our allies and given those calls for action
00:14:53 Our most immediate concern has been that individuals or small groups will draw a twisted inspiration
00:14:59 From the events in the Middle East to carry out attacks here at home
00:15:03 But now on top of that increasingly concerning is the potential for a coordinated attack
00:15:09 Here in the homeland not unlike the Isis K attack we saw at the Russia concert hall back in March
00:15:16 China
00:15:18 We're up to something like
00:15:20 2,000 active cases against across all 56 FBI field offices focused on the PRC's efforts to try to steal our
00:15:28 information and
00:15:30 technology and we need funding to continue countering the threat posed by the PRC a government
00:15:37 Sparing no expense in its quest to hack lie cheat and steal its way to the top as a global
00:15:43 Superpower and to undermine our democracy and our economic success
00:15:48 cyber
00:15:50 We're investigating more than a hundred different ransomware variants each of them impacting scores of victims and that's just ransomware
00:15:58 We need funding to continue disrupting all kinds of cyber threats. Certainly those from China
00:16:04 but also from a crowded field of sophisticated criminals and
00:16:08 hostile nation states like Russia Iran and North Korea
00:16:12 the fentanyl epidemic
00:16:15 We've got between 300 and 400
00:16:17 Investigations just into cartel leadership and time and time again
00:16:22 Our folks are seizing enough fentanyl to wipe out entire states
00:16:27 We need funding to continue thwarting the range of threats emanating from the border fentanyl gangs like ms-13
00:16:35 human trafficking
00:16:37 Violent crime last year our safe streets and violent crime task forces arrested like something like 50 bad guys per day
00:16:44 Every day all year long
00:16:47 We need funding to continue fighting the violent crime that remains at levels in this country that are still too high
00:16:55 Child exploitation our dedicated agents analysts and professional staff
00:17:00 Working violent crimes against children are arresting hundreds of predators and rescuing hundreds of victims
00:17:07 Each and every year we need funding to continue protecting our most vulnerable victims from their tormentors
00:17:15 In all those areas that I just mentioned we are working closely
00:17:18 with our partners at all levels of government to achieve our shared goals of
00:17:25 Keeping our communities safe and protecting Americans from harm every day
00:17:28 every day FBI agents
00:17:31 Analysts and professional staff are working shoulder-to-shoulder with thousands of task force officers
00:17:37 From hundreds of different police departments and sheriff's offices all over the country on our FBI let task forces
00:17:45 on top of that we provide technology and expertise valuable investigative leads like DNA matches and
00:17:53 Cutting its training to law enforcement nationwide to help them keep our communities safe
00:17:59 So as I know this subcommittee recognizes cuts to us our cuts to our partners
00:18:05 State and local law enforcement agencies and officers who are on the ground putting themselves in the line of fire
00:18:12 often quite literally
00:18:15 That's just one way that cuts to us are gonna have real impacts on the American people. So yes
00:18:23 despite best efforts we took a hit in the 2024 budget, but 2025 is a chance to get back on track and
00:18:30 Provide the FBI's men and women the tools and resources the American people need us to have
00:18:37 Keep them safe. So thank you again for having me here today, and I look forward to our discussion
00:18:43 Thank you very much director Ray
00:18:45 Senator Manchin, I understand you have to leave to chair another hearing. So would you like to begin the questioning?
00:18:52 So, thank you. Madam chairman. I appreciate that very much and to director Ray to you and to all of the
00:18:57 35,000 plus members who protect us every day and put their lives in harm's way for us
00:19:03 I want to thank each and every one of them to sir real quickly. I want to thank you for coming in 2022 to our
00:19:09 Clarksburg West Virginia FBI Center, which is your largest I believe in the installation does all the background, you know checks and
00:19:17 my concern there is a bipartisan Safer Communities Act making sure you have the
00:19:23 necessary funds and budget to enact that properly that we can continue to grow and protect the people of America from
00:19:30 Those who want weapons for the wrong reason and shouldn't have them that we can do the background check properly
00:19:36 So if you feel that that's been done adequately there and if there's any help that you're needing, please let me know
00:19:41 So I certainly appreciate your strong support for the men women of sieges as we've discussed I think before
00:19:48 In my view the the folks that sieges are the folks that in some ways have the greatest impact on the American people
00:19:55 But that the American people know the least about and one of those services
00:20:00 Of course is NICS and the bipartisan Safer Communities Act
00:20:03 provided an important
00:20:06 Boost to our authorities in that in that space and additional funding now on the funding part though
00:20:13 Here's the key. I heard here's the key
00:20:15 So we need to get those positions
00:20:18 That in the 25, it's not a huge
00:20:28 But it is an enhancement with more positions because right now what's happening is
00:20:35 the sheer volume of
00:20:38 the new checks that we have to do is going to go ahead and brag on the
00:20:43 people in Clarksburg, West Virginia
00:20:46 All the good work they do. I appreciate that very much
00:20:50 And I'm very proud of them too. The border, the southern border, I think you've touched on that
00:20:59 How absolutely
00:21:04 Tremendous that is and what we've got to do and all the threats that we're facing. Today's announcement
00:21:08 by the President will give us some light and hope
00:21:13 no matter
00:21:16 How much but it all is going to be much appreciated so I know you're watching that very
00:21:23 You
00:21:25 Is bothering me more than anything else is basically the attack on the judicial
00:21:40 But
00:21:48 Explain to people my state is an R40 state if that gives you an idea
00:21:52 How strongly that the president former President Trump has been supported and I want to make sure I'm accurate when I tell them
00:21:58 They come to me and they said well, it was a kangaroo court this and that happened and it wasn't fair and everything and I said
00:22:03 Well, I understand that the president said that there was a jury of peers 12 that went through the process
00:22:09 But and no means as it means it's over the rule of law the way I understand it in America
00:22:14 No matter what state you're in I have a right to cure
00:22:18 I think I've had a misjudgment or basically someone who ruled and
00:22:22 Maybe took liberties. They shouldn't have taken that judge can be reprimanded can go through another in court. I think people have to understand
00:22:29 Understand the checks and balances we have in the rule of law
00:22:36 There's another country like us a lot of countries one and done
00:22:40 They see it you're guilty. You're gone not in America. So for people I've sold
00:22:46 The president whether the D's or the Rs or who's playing for someone has ability to cure
00:22:51 If they think they've been misjudged
00:22:57 So, of course, I'm not gonna
00:23:03 And I do think that it is one of the things that
00:23:09 Distinguishes the United States and our allies
00:23:15 from countries
00:23:18 authoritarian countries like
00:23:21 You know
00:23:26 Whether it's redress whether it's appeals
00:23:30 sure
00:23:33 You know, I put it for example when we've charged
00:23:35 Folks acting on behalf of the Chinese government
00:23:40 Talked about and we
00:23:57 You
00:23:59 The prosecutors don't like me
00:24:09 We lose cases in this country. The Chinese don't lose many cases and it's not because they're better. I
00:24:13 Got you. So respect for our just in general
00:24:19 I'm not speaking about any specific case or any specific criticism, but but respect for our institutions respect for our processes
00:24:26 It's something that I think is something we need to try to hold dear just again. I'm speaking in general not about it
00:24:32 We have energy
00:24:34 Initial system
00:24:41 More you can do to educate the process and all the curing elements
00:24:45 I have if I think I've been treated wrong. I've got other ways to handle in America. Nowhere else does that happen? Thank you, sir
00:24:53 Thank You senator Manchin senator Moran a chairman. Thank you very much. I'll give my time in this round to the center from Maine
00:25:01 Thank you very much. It's very kind of you
00:25:05 Director Ray I want to follow up
00:25:08 Operation of
00:25:15 marijuana operations in the state of Maine in rural houses all
00:25:22 the
00:25:24 One and
00:25:28 One of these growing
00:25:31 Operations and by the way
00:25:35 the houses are full of
00:25:41 black mold
00:25:45 You
00:25:47 Again
00:25:59 so that is also of great concern what is the
00:26:05 FBI's theory about why?
00:26:08 Chinese nationals or or
00:26:12 Chinese transnational criminal
00:26:14 Organizations are setting up these illegal
00:26:19 marijuana growing operations in states like Maine
00:26:23 So it's something we have a number of investigations into as you might imagine
00:26:28 I guess speaking in my sort of intelligence agency leadership role
00:26:35 we
00:26:37 Don't yet see but we're obviously investigating any direct ties between these grows and say the Chinese government itself
00:26:45 But we are starting to see as we unpack this more
00:26:48 More ties between a lot of these growing operations and Chinese organized crime
00:26:54 And as to why they might be
00:26:59 Viewing the United States rural communities, etc as an attractive market for this kind of activity
00:27:07 At the moment our assessment is that it's it's a combination of the fact that it is activity that can be done
00:27:15 Relatively cheaply and with by comparison to say other drugs in the United States
00:27:20 The consequences that they face from a legal perspective are not as severe
00:27:26 Or that they might be in other countries where they might also want to operate so it makes for an attractive
00:27:34 Business proposition if I can speak that
00:27:36 Blandly about it, so if we think that's what's going on. We're continuing to investigate this
00:27:42 I'm very sympathetic to our state local partners. You're right that we're seeing it in rural communities
00:27:48 We're even starting to see some of this creeping in to say tribal lands for example around the country
00:27:53 so
00:27:55 It's an emerging
00:27:57 It's an emerging concern for sure
00:28:00 But that's that's what I can say on it right now. I guess
00:28:04 Thank you just one theory that I've heard is that these
00:28:09 Chinese
00:28:11 transnational criminal
00:28:13 Organizations are using it as a money laundering
00:28:16 Operation to bring more fentanyl into the country, which is of course the last thing that we need
00:28:24 So I hope the FBI will continue its cooperation in the state of Maine with state local
00:28:33 County officials as well as with your other federal partners like DEA and DHS
00:28:39 IRS etc
00:28:42 I've mentioned my concern about a terrorist attack
00:28:47 Because I think the lights are blinking red
00:28:51 There's a related issue that I want to bring up in the time that I have left and that is
00:28:58 Just this past Friday the FBI issued a joint intelligence bulletin
00:29:04 that noted that
00:29:06 Antisemitism will likely continue to drive calls for violence against Jewish
00:29:12 individuals and
00:29:14 institutions in the United States
00:29:16 Could you?
00:29:18 comment on
00:29:20 the threat to the Jewish community
00:29:24 Which may?
00:29:26 originate
00:29:27 organically here in the United States or
00:29:29 may be driven by Hamas and
00:29:34 other
00:29:36 antisemitic groups
00:29:38 So
00:29:40 We see and we have seen for quite some time a an elevated
00:29:44 Threat to the Jewish community in the United States. That was true even before October 7th. So
00:29:51 you know we saw last year a
00:29:55 significant increase in hate crimes
00:29:57 overall and then within that a significant increase of
00:30:01 Hate crimes against threats and other types of violent activity directed at the Jewish community
00:30:07 And then since October 7th it you know, the increase just went up
00:30:12 Dramatically, I think in the first four months after October 7th
00:30:16 We saw about a 60% increase in the number of hate crimes investigations
00:30:19 We were opening and while not all of those were targeting the Jewish community
00:30:23 Some were targeting Muslim Americans Arab Americans and others the vast majority were targeting the Jewish community
00:30:30 Put that in a little more context
00:30:33 the Jewish community represents about two and a half percent of
00:30:37 the American population and yet within religiously motivated hate crimes about 60% of them
00:30:46 Close to 60% of them are directed at the Jewish community. So you can see the
00:30:50 The reason why we think it is such a significant concern. They are targeted by
00:30:55 Foreign jihadist inspired terrorists whether it's ISIS al-qaeda others
00:31:02 They're targeted by Shia terrorists Iran and its proxies. They're targeted by domestic
00:31:09 violent extremists
00:31:11 You know white supremacists and others as well as anarchists and some of the folks who are, you know
00:31:17 pro-palestinian and so forth so they have the
00:31:20 Tragic distinction of really being targeted by almost every type of terrorist organization
00:31:25 There is out there foreign and domestic across the spectrum and so they desperately need our help and we're gonna give it to them
00:31:31 Thank you so much
00:31:34 senator Reid
00:31:36 Well, thank you very much. Senator Mormon
00:31:39 Director, thank you for your service and please convey my deepest thanks to the men and women who serve with you
00:31:46 You indicated in your opening remarks that last year you took a hit in your budget
00:31:51 This year if you don't get what the president asked for how many personnel do you estimate you'll have to lay off?
00:31:59 Well, I we don't know yet how many because of course we don't know what what will happen
00:32:06 I think at the moment the effect of the 24 budget is that that's about a thousand positions that we can't fill
00:32:14 And we are kind of muddling our way through the impact of the 24 budget
00:32:20 But if if Congress were to in my view make the mistake of doubling down on that
00:32:25 Then the consequences would be very significant. I mentioned the work we're doing to protect people from terrorism
00:32:31 That's fewer tips and leads followed fewer terrorist attacks detected. That's a significant concern in a heightened terrorist threat environment
00:32:38 I mentioned violent crime arresting 50 bad guys per day every day
00:32:42 The kind of cuts that you're alluding to means more violent gangs terrorizing neighborhoods more bad guys on the street
00:32:51 To hurt people I talked about the threat from China
00:32:54 the scale of the China threat is
00:32:58 Massive cyber alone. They outnumber the FBI 50 to 1 so scaling backwards
00:33:04 Means that many more cyber attacks at a time when they're trying to target our critical infrastructure among other things
00:33:10 So it makes the the environment safer for for hackers. I talked about the border
00:33:16 We've got between 300 and 400 investigations into the cartels
00:33:21 We're seizing enough fentanyl and FBI field offices in our task forces single seizures enough fentanyl to wipe out an entire state
00:33:28 So cuts to our budget in 25 is going to mean more fentanyl on the street
00:33:32 More overdoses more deaths more violence. So when people ask me
00:33:38 What is the effect of these cuts?
00:33:41 The people it hurts our state and local law enforcement and the people work together working with them trying to protect the people it helps
00:33:49 are
00:33:51 the terrorists the cartels the violent gangs
00:33:55 The Chinese government the hackers the child predators I can go on and on so I would implore
00:34:03 Congress and again this subcommittee I think has always been very responsive, but I would implore Congress
00:34:09 Please don't make the mistake of thinking that you can make cuts like this and not have real
00:34:14 Consequences to public safety and to our state and local partners. I think that's the part that keeps getting lost
00:34:20 Our state and local partners and I can say this with the perspective of having been in law enforcement since the mid 90s
00:34:26 State and local law enforcement these days depends on the FBI more than ever not just for all the things
00:34:32 I just listed off but for training technical assistance
00:34:35 Fingerprints DNA and you could you go right on down the list NCIC
00:34:39 Senator Manchin if you were here would I'm sure be glad that I was bringing up NCIC when a when an officer
00:34:45 Does a traffic stop?
00:34:48 They're running the person's identifiers through the FBI databases back in West Virginia
00:34:54 That information tells them whether the person they pulled over is dangerous. So just go straight to officer safety
00:35:00 That's just another example
00:35:01 All this stuff is put at risk
00:35:03 When we start talking about cuts of the sort that we had in 24 and we just cannot have happened in 25
00:35:09 one of the
00:35:12 ways we think around here and I might be
00:35:14 exaggerating the think part is
00:35:18 domestic defense
00:35:20 Domestic side defense side. You're actually a national security agency, but you're lumped in with the domestic side
00:35:28 And we can't I think continue to think that way
00:35:32 your
00:35:35 Operation is just as valuable to our national defense as the Department of Defense and I happen to chair the
00:35:39 Service committee. So I think that point should be made. I don't have much time left
00:35:44 But you could you quickly characterize the domestic terrorist threat particularly the contact the election?
00:35:49 the domestic terrorist threat so
00:35:52 We have certainly we view the domestic terrorist threat as being pervasive
00:35:58 Surprise persistent I should say
00:36:00 And significant and the biggest concern is lone actors
00:36:07 Or maybe small groups acting against soft targets
00:36:13 With easily accessible weapons often with very little notice
00:36:17 And it covers the waterfront. We've seen a lot of racially motivated violent extremism
00:36:22 We've seen anti-government anti-authority violent extremism that covers a variety of perspectives
00:36:29 And it is a threat that year after year continues to be a real concern. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman
00:36:36 Senator Reid, I think our number in this CJS
00:36:39 Appropriation is eight hundred and ninety billion dollars. That's defense spending so you can't
00:36:45 Make a clear distinction as sometimes people try to do well
00:36:50 I'm all for that. I'm just trying to point out that you're right. Thank you
00:36:55 I may I may not have made that clear because you seem to want to argue with me
00:36:58 Director you're talking about salaries and reduced
00:37:06 financial
00:37:07 Support for the FBI in our FY 24 budget
00:37:10 It was really effectively a held flat which this is a challenge in inflationary times
00:37:19 You request eighty five point four million for the restoration of 270 positions
00:37:27 Related to national security and law enforcement
00:37:30 Is this your highest priority?
00:37:35 There's the restoration of positions is our highest priority yes, and
00:37:38 If that was accomplished if we were capable of doing that
00:37:43 That that would the the benefit of that is just what you described to Senator Reid correct
00:37:51 Right that the goal would be to allow us to sustain
00:37:56 The pace that was set with the 23 budget
00:38:02 Because what's happened is the net effect of the 24 budget is to set us back
00:38:07 500 million because of the factors that you listed so the key is to
00:38:10 restore
00:38:13 Restore our operations so that we can continue to hum against all the things that I was listing off that Senator Reid
00:38:19 And not set us backwards, and if that doesn't happen then we start falling even further behind is the problem
00:38:24 Do you have a significant number of vacant positions already?
00:38:29 We have some positions that are vacant our fill rate is actually higher than
00:38:34 Historically it has been at the FBI which is a good thing. It's good news for America
00:38:39 But between so we're trying to kind of manage our way through the 24 cuts
00:38:46 Through a combination of attrition and how fast we're filling the vacant positions
00:38:52 We do have but if again if it if it lasts if the if what happened with 24 is
00:38:57 Replicated then we're going to be in a real world of hurt is the FBI workforce
00:39:01 What what's the age category is it aging or it's a young people nearing retirement that work at the FBI or?
00:39:09 Well we had we're coming off of the heels of a
00:39:15 You might call it a bit of a retirement bulge when you just look actuarially so in other words if you went back
00:39:23 20 plus years there was a big hiring
00:39:27 Spree if you will post 9/11 and
00:39:31 1811's armed law enforcement agents in particular in other words
00:39:35 The way the system works if they have 20 years in service, and they're 50 years or older. They're eligible to retire so
00:39:43 So whenever you're looking at retirement age of the workforce you got to go back
00:39:48 20 plus years and see what was happening then and so there was we're coming off of a bit of a
00:39:53 bookend of that group
00:39:56 So it's starting to level off is the last time I looked at it
00:39:59 So we're not in a big retirement bulge right now anymore
00:40:04 So that's part of why it's an issue
00:40:06 Director I mentioned in my opening statement the southern border and the challenges that
00:40:11 We've had
00:40:13 At the border I mentioned a member of Isis. I mentioned a
00:40:17 NBC News report about a individual who was on the terrorist watch list that was released
00:40:23 I recognize that the primary responsibility implicates the failures at the Department of Homeland Security
00:40:29 But the FBI terrorist screening center is the primary federal entity
00:40:34 Responsible for national security screening and for facilitating the sharing of information across government
00:40:41 Do these cases reflect a breakdown in our efforts to ensure that all government partners have full actionable information they need?
00:40:49 to protect our citizens from terrorism
00:40:53 So I I'm not sure I can discuss specific examples, but let me try to get at your question this way
00:41:00 so certainly we have seen over the last five to six years an increase in the number of
00:41:07 known or suspected terrorists in other words watch listed subjects
00:41:11 Attempting to cross the border
00:41:16 and that is of concern and that's where there's a lash-up between the TSC and
00:41:23 CBP at the border that I think in general worked pretty well
00:41:26 the bigger problem
00:41:28 The bigger problem in my view is twofold one
00:41:32 individuals who when they come in
00:41:35 are either
00:41:38 armed with fake documents or
00:41:40 Snuck in in some way or or and this is very important
00:41:45 individuals for whom there's not enough
00:41:47 Derogatory information in the intelligence community
00:41:52 To watch list them yet
00:41:55 So let me just unpack that a little bit because this is an important point because it kind of goes to what senator Collins was asking
00:42:01 me about
00:42:02 And it may relate a little bit to your your other hat on the Senate Intelligence Committee. So as we collect
00:42:10 Collectively across the intelligence community with our partners less information about foreign terrorists overseas
00:42:16 There's less information to be had about who the people coming into this country are which then mean would you say that sentence again?
00:42:23 I missed the first part of the sentence. So the way I look at it is
00:42:27 As we have less collection overseas against foreign terrorism
00:42:32 There's less there's less sources of information to inform
00:42:37 People about people coming in. So in other words somebody could be coming in who should be watch-listed
00:42:42 But isn't and it's not because of a breakdown between
00:42:46 CBP and the TSC it's because the information that should have told
00:42:51 Everybody that this person is a threat has not yet been
00:42:55 Unearthed by whatever intelligence agency it is out there because it's not just the FBI that puts people on the watch list
00:43:02 We're getting information from lots of other agencies. So as we pull out of Afghanistan, for example, you get less and less information about
00:43:10 Whether somebody from Afghanistan is actually a threat
00:43:14 And so some of the cases that I have seen that concern me are situations where somebody comes into the United States
00:43:20 It's not because there was a breakdown between CBP and the TSC
00:43:24 It's because they weren't watch-listed at the time
00:43:27 But in hindsight, they should have been watch-listed because information was later developed that says oh, oh this person is a problem
00:43:35 You see what I'm saying there, right? That's that's a much bigger concern
00:43:39 in my view
00:43:41 and so we really need to be
00:43:43 Focusing on how we can try to address that with the rest of the intelligence community with our partners and so forth when that happens
00:43:50 When we find somebody who's here in the United States who we now then know this person needs to be put on the watch list
00:43:56 Then we use our joint terrorism task forces
00:43:59 To go out and try to find the person work with our state local partners
00:44:03 We have the backstop of eight hundred thousand sworn law enforcement, etc
00:44:07 But that's that to me is a bigger concern than the number of KST's director
00:44:11 Just a brief follow-up. Is there a delay in timing once someone is known?
00:44:15 It's known that they should be on the watch list. Is there a delay before it's known across government agencies? I
00:44:21 Don't know about delay. I mean there's an interagency process
00:44:25 How long does it take I think it varies is a short answer
00:44:28 I mean there is it's not just the FBI can snap its fingers and put somebody on the list
00:44:33 There's a an interagency very rigorous process to protect civil liberties and other things to put somebody on the watch list
00:44:39 But once they're on the watch list, there's pretty much instantaneous notification to the relevant. Thank you
00:44:45 Thank You senator Moran, I would just point out to the members of the committee that the second vote has started
00:44:52 So anybody who hasn't voted you have your opportunity now
00:44:56 And I know there are a number of other hearings going on. So I understand senator van Hollen you are
00:45:04 Hoping to get back to another hearing. So I
00:45:07 Senator Heinrich said it's fine with him as long as he's next
00:45:12 So so we made a deal. Okay. Thank you both. Yes. Sorry
00:45:18 I have secretary Ellen in front of my subcommittee so director rate is great to see you and I do want to start by
00:45:23 You're not suggesting that she has precedent over director Ray. No, no
00:45:27 But I'm sharing that one
00:45:30 so
00:45:32 I
00:45:33 want to
00:45:34 Thank you for your efforts on combating domestic terrorism and and commend the bureau for its
00:45:40 Work on that front in Maryland this time
00:45:45 Last year as a result of an investigation led by the FBI's joint terrorism task force two individuals
00:45:51 Affiliated with neo-nazi groups were charged with conspiring to attack
00:45:56 Baltimore's power grid
00:45:58 facilities their motivation stem from violent extremist white supremacist belief beliefs
00:46:05 and in recent developments
00:46:08 Just last month the FBI field office and the US Attorney's Office announced that one of the individuals pled guilty
00:46:15 To conspiring to damage or destroy electrical facilities and will be sentenced in the fall
00:46:20 Facing up to 20 years for that crime. So again, thank you for your team
00:46:25 in action
00:46:27 Also, I'm sure you're aware of the fact that the Attorney General was testifying in the house today in front of the House Judiciary Committee
00:46:34 As you know, there are these these crazy
00:46:38 conspiracy theories continue
00:46:42 To fly so I wanted to ask you just to take this opportunity to once again
00:46:46 Put a nail in the coffin of this idea that somehow
00:46:50 the FBI was
00:46:53 Was complicit in you know organizing instigating the January 7th 6
00:46:58 Attacks you said in in July of last year
00:47:03 So a little under a year ago quote this notion that somehow the violence at the Capitol on January 6 was part of some operation
00:47:11 Orchestrated by FBI sources and agents is ludicrous and is a disservice to our brave hard-working
00:47:18 dedicated men and women unquote
00:47:21 director Ray
00:47:23 Can you can you confirm just how?
00:47:25 outrageous and and frankly dangerous these kinds of
00:47:30 assertions are
00:47:33 Well, first off I stand by my prior testimony
00:47:35 I think the men and women of the FBI
00:47:39 Work their tails off every day to protect the American people from a whole range of threats and I think
00:47:44 Irresponsible inaccurate allegations like that are a disservice
00:47:50 To these people who are putting themselves on the line every day to protect others
00:47:56 and I think it's
00:47:59 Unfortunate would be the kindest word I can use that is kind diplomatic, but but but thank you for
00:48:06 reaffirming your testimony from last year
00:48:08 Speaking of the men and women of the FBI we agree that they deserve our thanks, and they also
00:48:15 Deserve a new headquarters worthy of their work and as you know
00:48:20 Last year the GSA selected Greenbelt, Maryland for a new suburban consolidated
00:48:25 FBI headquarters
00:48:27 Two months ago the GSA submitted a report to Congress requesting approval for use of previously appropriated
00:48:35 funds for site acquisition and design of this new facility
00:48:38 The GSA report notes that quote final facility size will be driven by updated FBI
00:48:46 requirements unquote
00:48:48 Director Ray is the FBI
00:48:51 Developing the necessary updated requirements for the new facility
00:48:55 So we are working closely with GSA
00:48:58 I think the short version of the process is that the report that was submitted in
00:49:04 March I believe it was
00:49:06 Was intended to get congressional feedback on that because as I understand it GSA needs that
00:49:14 Needs that feedback in order to then do the much more detailed
00:49:19 More labor intensive and even expensive work that's required to build out the rest of it
00:49:24 So we're continuing to work with GSA
00:49:26 But I think we're we're waiting to hear back from from Congress or at least I know GSA
00:49:32 Feels like they need to hear back from Congress about the reactions to that
00:49:36 That higher level plan that you I think it's the same one that you referred to in March
00:49:41 Well, let me just ask you this
00:49:43 Are you are you the FBI fully?
00:49:46 cooperating with all the GSA requests in order
00:49:51 To prepare for the building of the new FBI headquarters. Are you fully cooperating with all of GSA's requests? I
00:50:01 Believe we are working closely with with GSA in cooperation with them in full compliance
00:50:07 With with the law the specifics of exactly what conversations what meetings that part?
00:50:13 I couldn't tell you right here right now, but my understanding is that we continue to work
00:50:18 closely with GSA
00:50:20 On the project as contemplated. I only asked mr. Director because we've not heard from GSA
00:50:27 About need for feedback from Congress before they move forward in cooperation with the FBI
00:50:33 So that would be news to me that I'll follow up with GSA about again
00:50:38 I think that with the way it was described to me was that
00:50:40 The report that we worked on with GSA that was submitted again. I think it was in March was
00:50:46 intended to
00:50:48 Tell Congress the direction we work GSA are headed to get
00:50:53 Feedback was the word that was given to me from Congress
00:50:56 I think in effect to make sure that we're in the right direction because the next steps are
00:51:01 significantly more
00:51:04 Labor intensive and even expensive and so before we start doing too much of that GSA felt like they needed in effect a
00:51:12 Steer I suppose it is from from Congress on that. Okay. Thank you. Madam Chairman. Thank you. Senator Heinrich
00:51:19 Well, thank you. Senators van Hollen and Heinrich now senator Heinrich when I said you would be next
00:51:26 I did not anticipate that we would have senator Kennedy coming in and he was here first
00:51:30 Okay, so in fairness senator Kennedy. Sorry Martin
00:51:35 Mr. Director welcome. I bet you just love talking about where to put the FBI building. Don't you?
00:51:42 Probably one of your favorite topics
00:51:47 I've got two questions. Number one
00:51:49 If you took the major
00:51:56 Mexican drug cartels which also traffic people into the United States and
00:52:04 Turned them upside down and shook them
00:52:08 President Lopez Obrador would fall out of their pockets Whitney
00:52:13 Well, I don't
00:52:18 Know that I can comment on a specific individual's
00:52:20 Corruption other than through cases that we bring but I understand the point that you're making for sure
00:52:28 We're not getting much cooperation out of Mexico, are we?
00:52:31 Let me put it this way
00:52:35 while we have had
00:52:37 Some successes here and there in terms of extraditions and so forth and I appreciate those and I'm grateful to our Mexican partners for those
00:52:45 Especially at the working level. We need a whole lot more
00:52:48 From Mexico than we've gotten in terms of shutting down the cartels and stopping the flow of the precursors
00:52:54 I mean I could go on and on so I'm grateful for the the successes we have had
00:52:59 But we need a heck of a lot more
00:53:02 Is the way I would answer that
00:53:04 Why don't we use leverage of what I call NAFTA -
00:53:12 To try to encourage the president of Mexico to cooperate more
00:53:16 You know, I mean NAFTA of course is a trade agreement
00:53:21 and
00:53:23 I'm not really an expert on trade relations
00:53:26 Certainly from an FBI perspective. We welcome
00:53:29 every tool in the toolbox to try to improve the relationship and the cooperation and I'm
00:53:36 hopeful that the Mexican government will see the value of
00:53:42 Building on the successes we have had and take it to the level that it needs to be because it's not where it needs to
00:53:47 Be okay. Here's my second question
00:53:49 We know that
00:53:54 Jeffrey Epstein who is now deceased and and Ms. Maxwell his associate who's in prison
00:54:04 were engaged in a
00:54:07 Conspiracy of
00:54:11 sex trafficking
00:54:13 with minors
00:54:15 So were others
00:54:19 It's been widely reported
00:54:22 What's the FBI doing to investigate
00:54:26 The other people that were involved in these sex trafficking ranks
00:54:32 Well, I'm not sure that I can
00:54:37 Confirm any specific individual. Let me put it this way. Let me give you some facts widely reported
00:54:43 Jeffrey Epstein
00:54:45 had video surveillance in all of his homes and on his private island and
00:54:51 There has been there there have been articles after articles from witnesses who have said
00:54:57 He videotaped
00:55:00 Sex acts
00:55:03 with prominent people
00:55:05 Because he was trying to occur
00:55:07 with young girls that he had procured to try to incur favor with those prominent people and
00:55:14 Potentially for what to be able to blackmail them
00:55:18 Now that's a fact
00:55:21 And and and the FBI and other federal agencies have raided his house. Do you have those tapes?
00:55:30 Again I can't discuss the specifics of our law enforcement operations related to mr. Epstein or miss Maxwell
00:55:36 But obviously we had very active investigation related to both of them, but whether it extends to other people
00:55:42 I'm not sure that's something but but here a suit was filed yesterday
00:55:46 Against one of those prominent people by one of the young women sex trafficked
00:55:52 allegedly
00:55:55 Said he was part of the ring. It's on the front page. I don't know. Is this a New York Times Wall Street Journal?
00:56:00 And we keep seeing article after article after article and we keep hearing about
00:56:05 prominent person after prominent person after prominent person I
00:56:09 Just want to know
00:56:12 If these prominent people are above the law
00:56:15 And are going to be in our being in this investigating or is the FBI investigating?
00:56:21 Well, no one is above the law
00:56:25 number one
00:56:27 As to whether specific people are being investigated. That's not something that I as I'm sure you can appreciate can engage on here
00:56:33 We've devoted significant resources to the investigation
00:56:36 Is it ongoing?
00:56:38 I'm not sure there's anything I can share with you on that
00:56:41 But let me see if we can get back to you and provide a little well, for example these allegations in this lawsuit the civil action
00:56:48 Yeah, I haven't seen your article. It'll trigger your gag reflex
00:56:56 Is the FBI gonna investigate that
00:56:58 well again
00:57:00 I haven't seen the article but I would be happy to take a look at it and take it back and see if it's part
00:57:04 Of something I just like to know I share your is the FBI still investigating this or
00:57:10 Are these prominent people?
00:57:13 Gonna go scot-free
00:57:16 I'm not sure that I can tell you whether or not there is ongoing work being devoted to this
00:57:22 I would be happy to take a look at the specific article. I share your
00:57:27 disgust
00:57:29 Mr. Epstein's conduct and miss Maxwell's conduct and others
00:57:34 the whole operation
00:57:37 Okay. Thanks. Madam. Sheriff. Sorry Martin. You're fine American anyone
00:57:41 Thank You senator Kennedy senator Peters senator Heinrich has
00:57:48 Kindly consented to give you time to prepare for your round of questioning and he's going next
00:57:54 Because I made a deal with him
00:57:57 We've done some musical chairs here, I apologize
00:58:02 Director I wanted to ask you a little bit about the bipartisan Safer Communities Act and specifically how the engaged in the business language
00:58:12 May have broadened your ability to perform background checks and what impact that then has on other agencies ability to
00:58:19 successfully prosecute things like the straw purchasing and gun trafficking
00:58:24 provisions in that law
00:58:27 So
00:58:29 Certainly bisca was an important piece of legislation that has added to
00:58:34 Our authorities at NICS in particular in a number of ways
00:58:39 In terms of additional background checks for the so-called u21
00:58:44 Group in particular and I think that's important because as I go around talking to state local law enforcement
00:58:50 And I've been and talked to law enforcement all 50 states. I believe
00:58:55 easily in this job
00:58:58 One of the two recurring themes you'll hear on violent crime is the the role of juveniles and the role of mental health
00:59:07 Almost every group no matter what state I'm talking to and so the the bipartisan Safer Communities Act does I think take an important step
00:59:13 In the right direction in terms of addressing that that specific part of the threat the part that you're asking about is
00:59:20 More in ATF's lane, but we work very closely with ATF
00:59:25 on our safe streets and violent crimes task forces
00:59:28 And we're always looking for the strongest violation to disrupt the threat
00:59:34 And so whether it's straw purchaser cases or things like that, I know when I was a line prosecutor
00:59:40 I prosecuted tried a number of straw purchaser cases. Those are important tools
00:59:44 And so often that's one of the best violations to to kind of dismantle a violent crime threat
00:59:51 One of the other things that we haven't I don't think adequately addressed in the law yet
00:59:57 But which is skyrocketing is these these ghost guns are privately made firearms
01:00:03 law enforcement has seen a thousand percent increase in recoveries between 2016 and 2021 in
01:00:09 2022 we had a
01:00:12 Ghost gun was used to shoot and kill a 16 year old at West Mesa High School in Albuquerque
01:00:17 And I wish that were a completely isolated case
01:00:21 What is the FBI doing to recover and prevent assembly of ghost guns and what tools more maybe even more importantly?
01:00:31 Do you need from the Congress to be able to get your hands around this challenge?
01:00:35 So I would say ghost guns as you say represent a real challenge for law enforcement
01:00:43 because the kits are cheap and
01:00:45 Widely available and undercut the ability to trace
01:00:49 To trace the firearm and an effect end up undermining the the background investigation process and unfortunately
01:00:58 We are seeing ghost guns more and more in violent crime and gang investigations now as to authorities
01:01:05 you're really talking more ATF in terms of
01:01:08 Regulation or even legislation, but we do coordinate closely whenever we seize ghost guns as part of a takedown
01:01:16 We're obviously working closely with ATF on that as to
01:01:19 Other things that Congress can do to help
01:01:22 At the risk of answering every question with the same
01:01:26 Answer we need Congress to restore
01:01:28 The progress that was made in 23 so that we can sustain our efforts against violent crime and sustain our work in terms of
01:01:36 denials of firearms to the people who are legally prohibited from from having them. Yeah, absolutely
01:01:43 On that note and I suspect it will be a similar
01:01:50 Answer, you know, we made some progress recently with fend off fentanyl act that was really designed to prevent
01:01:56 Fentanyl from getting inside the United States in the first place, but you have to deal with it once it's already here
01:02:02 you mentioned funding and the the potential impact that the budget could have on your ability to
01:02:08 disrupt that
01:02:12 flow
01:02:14 Feel free to reiterate the importance of that and then also touch on other tools that you may need that
01:02:20 To address the sort of crisis that we are seeing in communities all across this country
01:02:26 So
01:02:30 We are finding most of the fentanyl that we seize at the FBI is fentanyl
01:02:35 That's already here in the United States. And it's and what we're finding is that
01:02:40 Something like 70% of it is coming up in violent gang
01:02:45 takedowns
01:02:47 So that shows you kind of firsthand the nexus between the fentanyl problem and the violent crime problem and some of the most dangerous offenders
01:02:54 And it is not unusual
01:02:58 Not unusual for the FBI for any given field office to seize enough fentanyl in one takedown
01:03:05 To have wiped out an entire state and so if you start thinking about the impact of the cuts that we've been talking about in this
01:03:12 hearing
01:03:13 That's fewer seizures. That's more pills on the market. That's more people dying
01:03:18 I mean just put it as bluntly as that and that's just looking at it that way
01:03:22 And of course, we also have all these investigations into cartel leadership
01:03:26 And again the cuts impact that if we're going to be serious about going after the cartels
01:03:33 Among the other things that we're doing to try to tackle the fentanyl problem
01:03:36 We're we have an initiative called J code that aggressively targets darknet
01:03:41 Trafficking of fentanyl
01:03:44 We just last year had an operation called spector that was the largest ever
01:03:50 I think takedown of darknet targeting
01:03:54 marketplace of fentanyl and other dangerous, you know synthetic opioids
01:04:00 So that's an important part of the of our work
01:04:03 I know
01:04:05 In your home state of Albuquerque. I just remember off the top of my head
01:04:08 There's a great takedown that they did where they were seizing enough fentanyl to wipe out like an entire state along with
01:04:16 Again back to the nexus with violence along with hand grenades
01:04:20 ballistic vests
01:04:22 you know the whole nine yards, so
01:04:25 The fentanyl problem and the violent crime problem are inextricably linked. And of course the fentanyl problem is
01:04:31 Directly tied to the problems from the other side of the border
01:04:35 So not a great time to cut his budget
01:04:38 Certainly it's not
01:04:43 It's unfortunate we have another year of the fiscal responsibility act
01:04:46 Senator Peters, thank you for your patience. Well, thank you. Madam. Chair director a good to see you again as always
01:04:52 And thank you for your service to our country
01:04:55 Director a last year as chairman of the Homeland Security Government Affairs Committee. I released a report on
01:05:01 the watch listing and screening processes at airports and
01:05:06 The report raised concerns about the watch list including who it is shared with its implementation
01:05:13 Its oversight as well as the redress process in particular the report found
01:05:19 insufficient transparency lack of a holistic approach to screening and
01:05:24 no meaningful options to resolve concerns for Americans who believe that they were
01:05:29 misidentified or subject the subject to
01:05:32 discrimination certain communities such as Muslim Arab and South Asian Americans report
01:05:38 Disparate screening during their travel and the breakdown and trust over the inability to redress the process
01:05:46 Certainly, I think you agree the administration including the FBI must
01:05:50 Effectively target our resources to protect our country from terrorism first and foremost
01:05:55 But we also need to respect the rights of of innocent Americans as well
01:06:00 So my question for you, sir is I believe you're familiar with this report
01:06:04 And what what steps have you taken to ensure that there's more transparency?
01:06:08 especially to Congress about the watch list and other data sets maintained by the terrorist screening center as
01:06:14 recommended in the report that my committee published
01:06:17 So certainly I agree as you stated that it's important that the database be used to protect our national security and at the same time
01:06:25 respect of civil liberties
01:06:28 And no one is placed on the watch list solely because of race ethnicity
01:06:32 National origin religious affiliation or any First Amendment protected activities and there is a rigorous interagency process
01:06:40 There are continuous review and quality control measures
01:06:43 we're constantly taking advantage of new methods and technologies to strengthen those processes and
01:06:48 While the FBI and the TSC as I know you you know
01:06:52 Because of your other your other role are not responsible for the actual travel screening. We do work diligently with
01:06:58 The interagency to try to make sure we're maintaining a current and accurate watch list recently
01:07:03 the TSC
01:07:06 published a
01:07:07 Put out a comprehensive document about the watch list process which includes everything from the process for nominations
01:07:14 use of the list
01:07:17 quality assurance measures and
01:07:19 To the heart of your question the redress procedures and so our hope is that that document
01:07:25 strikes the balance of the two issues that you mentioned in terms of
01:07:29 providing more transparency about all those processes so that people
01:07:34 Know how it works know how they can challenge if they if they have something they want to challenge
01:07:38 While at the same time not compromising our national security
01:07:42 Ironically some of the transparency around this process could itself
01:07:47 Infringe on people's privacy and civil liberty because of you know who it identifies in a way that maybe they wouldn't want being identified
01:07:56 Right. It is always a careful balance, but we have to continue to work. We've been working with your team
01:08:00 We hope we can continue to do that and it's been a particular issue in Detroit Airport
01:08:06 For example for reasons you and I have discussed many times
01:08:09 Director Ray we have seen historic spikes in anti-semitic anti-muslim and anti-arab American hate incidents
01:08:18 Certainly driven by the war between Israel and Hamas
01:08:22 We're also seeing rising anti-immigrant rhetoric
01:08:25 Which is in the past has inspired domestic terror attacks in Pittsburgh and El Paso for example
01:08:31 DOJ has also announced its investigating dozens of violent threats against election workers and has already convicted
01:08:37 13 individuals and as you said earlier, you're increasingly concerned about the potential for a coordinated foreign terrorist attack
01:08:46 Here in the homeland. So the threat of terrorist attack is high and we don't know what will inspire the next attack or where?
01:08:54 It will happen. But my question for you is given all of these threats. How is the FBI now prioritizing resources?
01:09:00 To protect these communities from these very threats
01:09:03 Well, you covered a waterfront because there's a waterfront to threats
01:09:09 We so start with on the terrorism side
01:09:12 terrorism which includes both
01:09:15 Foreign terrorism and domestic terrorism remains our number one priority that has not changed
01:09:21 And that drives
01:09:25 prioritization within all the field offices for one thing second
01:09:30 we a couple years ago elevated
01:09:33 Civil rights specifically including hate crimes to what we call a national threat priority and the effect of that is
01:09:40 to drive
01:09:43 prioritization in the in all the field offices
01:09:46 In addition we created I created a few years ago
01:09:51 Something that we call the domestic terrorism hate crimes fusion cell
01:09:56 because what I found was that sometimes the same act of
01:10:00 violence
01:10:03 Could be considered either a hate crime or an act of domestic terrorism in many ways
01:10:08 It's the same type of attack. It's just two different legal structures and in the FBI
01:10:13 The criminal investigative division, you know
01:10:16 We have people who focus on hate crimes and then we of course we have people who focus on the national security side on terrorism
01:10:22 And so that this fusion cell that I created brought the two groups together to ensure
01:10:27 Both that nothing slips through the cracks, but also maybe more importantly
01:10:31 To try to see if we can better anticipate
01:10:34 And to be more proactive to prevent these attacks in the first place as the solely responding after they tragically occur
01:10:41 and I'm proud of some of the work that was done including I think for the first time ever a
01:10:45 couple years ago now a
01:10:48 proactive
01:10:50 Hate crimes charge that disrupted an attack against a synagogue
01:10:54 I believe it was in Nevada, but it could have been in Colorado because there's one of each
01:10:59 Right. Thank you. Appreciate that and look forward to continuing to work with you. Thank you. Madam. Chair. Thank you senator Peters senator Fisher
01:11:06 Thank You madam chair, and thank you for being here today director a I
01:11:11 Continue to be concerned about the threat that the Chinese Communist government poses to critical infrastructure in the United States
01:11:19 Especially when it comes to cyber security in Nebraska
01:11:23 This presents distinct vulnerabilities for our agriculture industry and the nation's food supply for instance malicious code
01:11:31 contained
01:11:33 Planting data and harm crop yields it also can be used by foreign actors to steal our ag innovation
01:11:39 What internal mechanisms is the FBI relying on to counter cyber threats to the agriculture industry from China?
01:11:48 specifically
01:11:49 So we we are specifically concerned not just as you are about the China threat more broadly
01:11:55 But about the China threat as it relates to agriculture in particular
01:11:59 I have visited our Omaha office a couple times. I met with our partners there and I know from firsthand
01:12:06 Experience and contact with them that they are acutely focused on specifically the threats to agriculture. In fact, they're
01:12:13 Holding I think a big summit soon
01:12:17 That I was hearing about that's bringing people from all over the state in the region again very much focused on this issue
01:12:23 We have seen in the past the Chinese government or people from China acting on behalf of China
01:12:32 Attempting to steal cutting-edge agricultural research
01:12:35 Even to the point of I know in Senator Moran's home state of Kansas
01:12:40 They we stopped the guy trying to you know fly out of the country with cutting-edge agriculture research in Iowa
01:12:47 I can remember we had guys out in the in the fields digging up genetically modified corn seed and we prosecuted
01:12:54 Worked with the DOJ to prosecute them
01:12:57 So there's the theft the IP theft part and we know that China has specifically
01:13:02 Identified agriculture as one of its areas that it wants to target
01:13:09 It's quite explicit about that. So that's a concern you also brought up. I think the critical infrastructure
01:13:16 Dimensions of this and we have seen the Chinese government attempting to target multiple sectors
01:13:24 civilian sectors
01:13:26 to pre-position to potentially cause havoc
01:13:29 At a time and place of their choosing and so that's something that we're really trying to focus on
01:13:35 So can you can you tell us that in in this setting?
01:13:39 Specifically what sectors and where that's happened or should it be in a closed session?
01:13:43 There's some sectors I could share publicly
01:13:48 Whether there's anything I could share about agriculture specifically on that. I'm not sure
01:13:52 I know that what I can say publicly, but it gives you a flavor of what we're dealing with
01:13:57 We conducted with our partners a court-authorized operation that took down and exposed
01:14:04 a
01:14:05 Chinese government effort to pre-position on civilian critical infrastructure that included water
01:14:11 telecommunications
01:14:14 And a variety of others and again
01:14:16 There was no legitimate purpose to be on the parts of the networks
01:14:20 They were on other than to be in a position to wreak havoc at a time and place of their choosing, right?
01:14:26 You know, we're in addition to the cybersecurity
01:14:30 We're also worried about communications network that infrastructure there that the Chinese are looking at and it's been
01:14:37 a
01:14:39 challenge to be able to fund
01:14:41 FCC the rip and replace
01:14:44 Program that's out there. So we we know that the Chinese have that telecom equipment there. They
01:14:50 We know the security risks that are involved. Are you able to share any updates?
01:14:58 Today from the FBI's work to evaluate the Chinese network gear that's
01:15:03 Located especially next to US military
01:15:07 installations
01:15:09 Again, if you could do it here if it would need to be in a closed setting
01:15:13 So on the assets, you know on the communication side
01:15:17 And the whole rip and replace issue that's probably something better reserved for another setting
01:15:23 What I can tell you is that we have a number of investigations underway that relate to allegations
01:15:30 Concerning buying up of land
01:15:34 near
01:15:37 installations that would be of concern
01:15:39 And it's not that there's anything inherently unlawful about foreign purchase of land
01:15:44 But we get concerned when the purchase
01:15:49 Purchaser may have ties back to a government that doesn't share our values and it's positioned near some right and that that's what we follow
01:15:56 as well is there
01:15:58 Do you have enough?
01:16:00 Availability, is there enough transparency in these transactions to?
01:16:04 Easily discover if there's a connection to the Chinese there as I said earlier we have
01:16:11 Concerns in western, Nebraska about some of this so it is a challenge
01:16:16 we are
01:16:18 On farmland in particular we are working with USDA to try to look to some kind of mandatory
01:16:23 Reporting regime that might be helpful there
01:16:26 And so we're that's a relationship that continues to grow between the agencies. I would say that the Chinese government
01:16:34 Now that more and more businesses
01:16:37 States countries are are wise to what they're up to are making it harder to trace
01:16:46 Transactions, and they're you know they're not just sort of looking at the combined efforts of us and our partners and just saying never mind
01:16:52 They're doubling down and trying to figure out how to be more creative to try to hide the
01:16:58 The hand of the Chinese government in some transactions, so we are having to work that much harder
01:17:04 With partners to try to be to sleuth out
01:17:08 The the involvement of some state nexus. Thank you. Thank you madam chair. Thank You senator Fisher senator Merkley
01:17:16 Thank you very much Madam Chair and good to see you director
01:17:23 Director I wanted to explore a little bit the the challenge of the of the plot
01:17:31 To murder a
01:17:35 Sikh activist here in the United States the
01:17:39 Department of Justice unsealed an indictment
01:17:43 And the individual I gather is in the Czech Republic and that and that we've established there are extradition
01:17:50 Possibilities is is that progressing?
01:17:53 I can say that I'm
01:17:56 Very aware of the case you're talking about and I do feel the case is progressing
01:18:01 It's probably not a whole lot. I can say about it for that reason, but but yes the case is progressing
01:18:06 But we're actively pursuing extradition
01:18:08 We are I believe I can confirm that much yeah
01:18:13 Thank you the Washington Post reported that US officials have identified the individual in the Indian Intelligence
01:18:20 Agency who was the
01:18:23 crafter of the of the plot and that the plot was approved by the chief of research and analysis wing which
01:18:30 Is the Indian spy?
01:18:33 Agency I have not seen that we are pursuing indictments, but are we pursuing indictments against?
01:18:41 Individuals who not just the hired assassin if you will but those who planned and plotted the assassination
01:18:48 So that's a question that I can't answer here what I can tell you just because it's an ongoing a very
01:18:55 ongoing
01:18:57 investigation
01:18:59 and
01:19:00 What I will tell you is that
01:19:02 We feel quite strongly as I think you do
01:19:06 that
01:19:09 Individuals cannot attempt to conduct lethal plotting in the United States
01:19:15 even if they feel strongly that
01:19:17 somebody is somebody they view as a
01:19:20 Bad actor that's not a recourse that they have available to them to engage in lethal plotting
01:19:26 I raised this particular case because I previously
01:19:28 Raised and really try to put a spotlight on the growing problem of transnational
01:19:34 Repression and as the chair of the Senate side chair of the Congressional Executive Commission on China
01:19:40 We hold a lot of hearings in which people are testifying many of those folks have been subject to
01:19:46 Transnational repression by the Chinese government this morning
01:19:49 We had the anniversary the hearing on the anniversary of Tiananmen Square and the individuals again spoke about
01:19:56 The challenges they have faced in fact one individual
01:19:59 Testified with an assumed name and a mask
01:20:04 in order to protect herself
01:20:06 from
01:20:08 Repression the
01:20:11 Previously I've raised the issue of having a better
01:20:15 gateway for people to talk to the FBI about
01:20:20 Transnational repression because in the past the FBI had said well just tell people to call the general tip line
01:20:26 That is not something hardly anyone does of those that I'm aware of who have been subject to this
01:20:34 They're not sure. It's a crime. They're not sure it will be confidential. They're not sure there will be a Chinese speaker
01:20:41 so in our
01:20:43 FY24
01:20:45 bill
01:20:46 We had report language that
01:20:48 Directed the FBI to ensure that its tip line is staffed by people with cultural and linguistic ability
01:20:54 to communicate with the diaspora and knowledge of the tactics of
01:20:59 Transnational repression has the FBI accomplished that assignment
01:21:04 well, what I what I can tell you is that we have a
01:21:08 Transnational repression cell that is focused specifically not just on how we
01:21:15 Analyze the intelligence related to transnational repression
01:21:20 But how we feed that into outreach and engagement with the targeted
01:21:26 communities and that includes
01:21:30 everything from
01:21:31 translations into the relevant languages to supplying it to field offices for community engagements with
01:21:38 dissident and diaspora communities sprinkled around the country
01:21:42 with the whole goal of being trying to address the very
01:21:46 concern that you're
01:21:49 alluding to which is to to recognize that these are folks who
01:21:53 In many case the transnational repression is at the hands of law enforcement from these other countries
01:21:59 So they're understandably a little bit reluctant to turn to law enforcement here
01:22:03 So it's an effort to educate them on what transnational oppression is how they can reach out to us to show them that we're there to help
01:22:10 And that is valuable and thank you for having your outreach teams engaged in that manner
01:22:16 I'm still not hearing that they're presenting an opportunity to those communities in which those communities feel comfortable
01:22:24 Sharing their experiences. So I want to continue to raise this I think on your response the specific assignment of
01:22:31 Having the tip line staff with people with the linguistic ability
01:22:36 Specific to the population most affected may not have happened yet, but I'll follow up with you in in that
01:22:43 regard we have seen the
01:22:46 And I am how quickly five minutes pass
01:22:51 So I'm out of time, but I'll just close with
01:22:53 Noting that this challenge is growing
01:22:56 some of folks that we work closely with India included
01:23:02 And Turkey are now engaging in transnational repression
01:23:07 It's particularly important that nobody gets a pass on this here in the United States
01:23:12 People should not should not be possible for foreign governments to to threaten them or threaten their families back back back home
01:23:20 It's such a direct attack on freedom of speech and freedom of association
01:23:24 Thank you. Thank you. Senator Merkley senator Hagerty. Thank you. Madam Chairman. Welcome director ray
01:23:31 Director ray we're in the midst of a critical election year and the American people
01:23:36 Need to be able to count on a fair process
01:23:39 Are you concerned about election interference this year? Yes or no answer will suffice. Am I concerned about election interference?
01:23:47 Yes
01:23:49 I'd like to talk about
01:23:51 One specific threat one specific concern that I have
01:23:55 several federal laws prohibit using governmental authority to interfere in federal elections and
01:24:02 The FBI would be in charge of investigating such a violation of federal law work to occur. Is that correct? I
01:24:08 Have to think about the specific examples, but certainly there's a range of types of interference and elections that we have
01:24:18 Authorities to pursue so I guess depends on the facts the specific factual scenario happen. I know the FBI is investigated
01:24:25 extensively in the past in this arena
01:24:28 Here we have a situation. That's unprecedented
01:24:31 No former president no major candidate for president has ever been prosecuted criminally in American history
01:24:38 Yet now we have a situation
01:24:41 Where the incumbent president's major candidate major major opponent is being prosecuted in five separate jurisdictions
01:24:48 by all by Democrat partisan prosecutors and
01:24:52 all of this
01:24:54 culminating right in the middle of an election season
01:24:56 Does that sound to you like coordinated election interference or is that just a coincidence?
01:25:01 Well, I'm not going to discuss
01:25:04 state pending state criminal prosecutions
01:25:07 That's not something I would ever do
01:25:10 The I'm talking about utilizing governmental authority to interfere in election. Let me get more specific
01:25:16 What we saw happen last week was Alvin Bragg who ran on a platform of getting Trump?
01:25:22 Do just that with a flimsy made-up theory and a criminal conviction just this weekend
01:25:29 the leader of the Soros organization
01:25:32 Came out and advised Democrats to repeat the slogan
01:25:36 convicted felon
01:25:39 So it could be imprinted on voters minds Alvin Bragg facilitated that imprint and did just that is that
01:25:45 Coordinated election interference. Is that just a coincidence that would happen again? I
01:25:49 With all due respect. I'm not going to talk about you're talking about a state. Well, let me get I'll go to it
01:25:55 I'll go to a federal level then if you look back to April 2022
01:26:00 The New York Times reported the President Biden had told his advisors that he wanted Donald Trump prosecuted. That was printed in The New York Times
01:26:06 Just days after President Trump announces that he's going to enter the election process
01:26:13 Merrick Garland appoints Jack Smith to
01:26:15 prosecute Trump President Biden's opponent
01:26:18 Is this coordinated election interference to go after your opponent in a federal election using the Justice Department to do it?
01:26:26 You're asking about a special account special counsel appointment by the Attorney General and a pending federal case
01:26:33 That is in front of a federal judge. It's not something that I can appropriately discuss here. Well, here's another situation
01:26:40 When Letitia James was running for New York Attorney General, she campaigned to get Trump
01:26:43 In fact representative Dan Golden Dan Goldman called it an individualized political vendetta
01:26:49 Does it seem that using the criminal justice system for political vendetta is election interference or is that just a coincidence -?
01:26:56 Again, I'm just not going to weigh in on pending state criminal cases
01:27:03 It will not an appropriate role for the FBI. The FBI has the duty to
01:27:08 investigate violations of federal law and federal law prohibits the use of governmental authority to interfere in elections particularly a presidential election of this consequence
01:27:16 The FBI is not investigating and I presume who's going to investigate it who's going to look into this
01:27:22 Well again, I'm not going to talk about who we are or are not investigating
01:27:28 Because that's not something that's appropriate for me under DOJ rules. I can tell you that we are going to
01:27:34 Do our part and we have one part in protecting our elections from the threats that we have jurisdiction to
01:27:42 investigate
01:27:44 Well the way the legal stars have aligned in this circumstance is deeply concerning not only to me
01:27:50 But to the American people and I just stepped through a number of situations where it certainly appears that there is a coordinated effort
01:27:57 To go after the president's main political rival and it's happening all of these are convening
01:28:03 Right at the same time right in the middle of an election year
01:28:06 They're using facts or theories from years past but all of it is coming together right at this point in time
01:28:12 It certainly looks like a coordinated effort to me and it certainly looks like the type of thing that the FBI should be investigating
01:28:18 Thank you, Madam Chair
01:28:20 Thank You Senator Hagerty
01:28:21 I would just point out that I think there there are a number of people who do not support that conspiracy theory
01:28:27 So I appreciate that you have that view
01:28:30 If it's a conspiracy the way this aligns is the most incredible thing I've ever seen madam chairman
01:28:35 and I
01:28:38 Share the directors view that that's not appropriate for the director of the FBI to comment on
01:28:44 Senator Coons Thank You Madam Chair, and Thank You director a director. I've had the chance to work with you in an oversight role
01:28:52 both during the Trump administration and the Biden administration
01:28:57 And I admire the ways in which you have worked
01:28:59 Do you think it's important that the FBI?
01:29:02 Maintain its independence from any efforts to politicize the federal law enforcement system
01:29:08 very much, so I
01:29:10 Think the FBI has a unique role to play in American society and in our legal system
01:29:16 And we need to be able to call balls and strikes no matter who likes it and unfortunately in today's world
01:29:24 It is a reality that with everything we do there's going to be somebody who doesn't like it
01:29:29 But we can't get hung up on that to me. That's what independence means
01:29:33 We're gonna call it without fear about who's going to be angry or upset or alternatively
01:29:38 Joyous or happy about something we do. We just can't go down that road so my
01:29:43 commitment my focus as was
01:29:47 Stated I think very clearly to you and the rest of the Judiciary Committee when President Trump nominated me
01:29:53 Was that we're gonna focus on doing the work in the right way
01:29:57 We may not get the results that people want in this case or that case
01:30:01 But I will do my best and I have continued to do my various to make sure we do our work in the right way
01:30:07 I appreciate that. We've known each other a long time and I respect the way you conduct yourself as director
01:30:13 We've recently gone through an important process around FISA reauthorization
01:30:19 In your both written and spoken testimony. You said that the FBI is
01:30:23 Principally focused on the protection of the American people from terrorism both
01:30:27 Domestic and international. This is a top priority and there are significant threats
01:30:31 And I think that there were some significant
01:30:36 Reforms codified in the reauthorization of section 702 and the surveillance authorities
01:30:41 I'd be interested in hearing what you are doing to implement them to ensure that the silver civil liberties of the American people are
01:30:49 protected
01:30:50 Under your directorship and any potential successor and how you strike that balance appropriately given the urgency of also
01:30:57 protecting the American people from terrorism
01:31:00 So as you know the the law that was passed recently as the most significant
01:31:07 rewrite of FISA since I think since its passage
01:31:12 And there were not there was no kind of on-ramp period so we implemented it
01:31:19 You know sort of day one even though there weren't resources that were provided to do it and even though it came
01:31:24 In an environment as I've already testified where we're dealing with effectively a 500 million dollar cut
01:31:31 But we're going to comply with all the requirements
01:31:33 They are resource intensive in their own way because you're talking about pre-approval requirements
01:31:40 for one thing prohibition on certain queries again that have to be
01:31:46 Detected and audited I one of the things that I did even before
01:31:49 The law passed as I created an office of internal audit at the FBI which did not
01:31:55 Previously exist whose sole focus was on FISA compliance
01:31:59 And we achieved great strides in FISA compliance as is confirmed by the independently by the court
01:32:06 But it is a significant
01:32:11 Change in how we operate and my message to the troops is twofold one
01:32:16 Got to make sure you're doing it in the right way
01:32:19 Number two given how critical this tool is to protecting the American people from foreign threats terrorists China
01:32:27 Russia Iran North Korea
01:32:29 cyber especially foreign cyber
01:32:31 We need to make sure that we're using it in the way that
01:32:37 Congress and I think the American people expect us to do to protect them because it is an indispensable tool
01:32:43 I don't use words like indispensable often it is indispensable. Well. Thank you, and it's a two-year reauthorization
01:32:50 I intend to follow it closely as we reconsider it two years from now
01:32:54 As you know I've long been concerned about intellectual property theft senator Hatch
01:32:59 And I passed the defense trade secrets act I think back in 2016
01:33:03 And one of the areas that I I think is a important priority for us nationally is to protect American invention and innovation
01:33:11 particularly from the CCP because they intend to
01:33:14 Be a peer competitor or to exceed our capabilities largely by stealing our innovations in areas like artificial intelligence
01:33:23 And precision biology in other areas, and what are you doing to address threats to American innovation?
01:33:29 And how would the additional resources you're seeking for FY 25 bolster those efforts?
01:33:35 So first off we are laser focused on our adversaries efforts to steal
01:33:41 American intellectual property and there is no country
01:33:45 I've been consistent on this for I think since early in my tenure and maybe even in 2017 itself
01:33:51 There is no country that presents a broader more severe more comprehensive threat to our economic security our ideas our innovation
01:33:59 Ultimately our freedom than the Chinese government
01:34:02 I want to be clear I'm talking about the Chinese government not the Chinese people and certainly not Chinese Americans
01:34:07 And what makes the threat from the PRC so pernicious is that they combined?
01:34:14 multiple tools
01:34:16 So everything from human efforts whether it's traditional intelligence officers
01:34:21 co-op tees corrupted insiders, etc
01:34:25 With a cyber program that dwarfs that dwarfs anybody else's
01:34:30 combined with
01:34:32 What would otherwise be legitimate business activity joint ventures different kinds of mergers and acquisitions?
01:34:39 Partnerships that are in effect just a vehicle to enable
01:34:43 The other stuff and so you put all those avenues together becomes particularly challenging
01:34:48 We have north of around 2,000 active investigations that are just into the PRC's efforts to steal our information and technology
01:34:56 It's up like
01:34:58 1,300 percent from where it was not that long ago
01:35:02 all 56 field offices
01:35:04 So and from an investigation perspective, we're incredibly active and the resources are indispensable to do that
01:35:12 But investigations alone aren't enough. We're much more engaged over the last several years with the business community
01:35:18 Trying to work with them so that they can figure out how better to harden
01:35:22 There because they are the attack surface. So there's a lot of outreach
01:35:27 cyber
01:35:28 the Chinese cyber effort is
01:35:30 Gigantic if you took all of the FBI's cyber resources and said forget Russia forget Iran forget ransomware
01:35:39 Just do nothing but China
01:35:41 The Chinese government's hacking program would dwarf ours 50 to 1 so the idea
01:35:47 That Congress would set us back
01:35:49 Instead of launching forward on that boggles my mind and so I would implore
01:35:56 And I know this subcommittee has been a great ally on this stuff
01:36:01 But I would implore Congress more broadly to make sure that we don't do that because I can guarantee you the Chinese government ain't cutting
01:36:08 Its budget
01:36:09 Well, thank you director. I'm the chair of the intellectual property subcommittee senator Tillis and I have a number of pieces of legislation
01:36:15 We're trying to advance to strengthen the tools to protect our IP, but you also need the resources. Thank you. Madam chair
01:36:21 Thank You senator Coons senator Murkowski
01:36:23 Thank You madam chairman director
01:36:26 Welcome to the committee. Thank you for your leadership talk about fennel fentanyl just for a moment
01:36:31 Alaska continues to outpace the other states
01:36:37 Unfortunately, this is a position in place that we would never ever want to be between
01:36:42 2022 and 23 we saw the largest percent increase in drug over deaths
01:36:47 Of any state by far we're we're referred to as quote one of fentanyl's deadliest
01:36:54 frontiers just from
01:36:57 last year
01:36:59 the drug overdoses
01:37:01 increased by 40%
01:37:03 from 22 to 23
01:37:06 23
01:37:07 FY 22 to 23 and of this of these overdoses
01:37:12 three-quarters were from fentanyl and so
01:37:16 We are we are seeing
01:37:18 We're seeing our cities under attack, but even more troubling is the very very remote small
01:37:28 Oftentimes Alaska native villages villages of 800 people where the
01:37:37 The cartels those who are moving these drugs know that they can get ten times more for this
01:37:45 Poison than anywhere else and so they're targeting our smallest of small communities
01:37:50 So we're seeing this this awful increase and yet if we look at what is happening
01:37:59 in other areas many states have seen
01:38:03 reductions in overdose death rates during this same period
01:38:07 What are they what are you doing there that is allowing for greater levels of success?
01:38:13 What are the obstacles to doing the same in places like Alaska?
01:38:18 It was somewhat gratifying to see a recent announcement that the US Attorney's Office there in and in Alaska had
01:38:26 had
01:38:28 announced new charges
01:38:30 against this this ring
01:38:33 Where there had been 53 defendants named now there are additional charges. This is good. This is positive, but
01:38:40 We're we're looking at what we're up against and we're a state where the stuff is coming in
01:38:47 By air it's coming in a little bit by by vessel, but
01:38:53 That and and the males so we know where the points of entry are
01:38:59 And we're we're still not able to do the interdiction that is is making a difference to turn this around
01:39:06 You got any words that you can share with people who are really very very anxious about what we're seeing with them
01:39:13 Well, certainly I'm acutely aware of what a big problem is up there and as some of the challenges that
01:39:20 Law enforcement in your home state have to contend with I've been up to visit as you know a couple times
01:39:27 And I'm one of them in particular the Alaska State Troopers with with whom we have a great relationship
01:39:32 Took me up in a helicopter to be able to kind of get a better sense of just the sheer
01:39:38 Sprawl and remoteness of some of the communities that you're you're talking about
01:39:42 we are working through the
01:39:45 Alaska high-intensity drug trafficking area initiative and that's that's a big part of it not just on the investigations and enhancing those but promoting interagency
01:39:53 partnerships increasing awareness
01:39:56 Part of part of that effort in addition to big cases like the 53 person one you mentioned
01:40:01 And the seizures that came with that is to try to make sure that people
01:40:07 Including in some of these more remote communities kind of know
01:40:12 What behaviors to be on the lookout for how to report who to report it to that kind of thing?
01:40:17 You mentioned some of the reduction in overdose deaths in that you're seeing in some other states
01:40:26 The one thing I would say about that is that overdose deaths as a
01:40:30 metric for
01:40:34 Progress I think is is in some ways
01:40:37 frustratingly misleading because first first response is getting so much better in some states so that what you're having is
01:40:44 The same you might have the same or maybe even more overdoses, but because there's wider availability faster availability of Narcan
01:40:53 the people who were overdosing who before would have died aren't dying and so it has the the pernicious effect of
01:41:00 making people feel like they're
01:41:03 Making more of a dent in the problem than they are don't get me wrong
01:41:07 it's it's great that the people aren't dying and it's great that there's emergency care to keep them alive, but
01:41:13 overdose deaths in some other state may not be as successful as
01:41:19 As it might appear to you, but I absolutely get your point and what we need to be doing is basically choking
01:41:26 Choking the poison off in the first place, so it doesn't get to my state or any others
01:41:32 I'm out of time here
01:41:34 But I want to ask one final question here and this this relates to the not invisible commission
01:41:39 This is related to murdered missing indigenous peoples
01:41:42 They got their report to Congress and the federal agencies back
01:41:47 November of last year it recommends that law enforcement including FBI are trained in
01:41:53 mm-mm
01:41:55 MMIP violence crime and human trafficking
01:41:57 Coordination with BIE and all of that and I'm hoping that we've got some good progress that is being made by the FBI in
01:42:06 Implementing this the provisions of this report the concern that I have here is we I just mentioned the fentanyl
01:42:14 crisis in this state
01:42:17 We've got a stepped up initiative that we must do when it comes to
01:42:21 those vulnerable people
01:42:24 murdered missing and
01:42:26 Particularly our indigenous women, but we've got one field office in Alaska for the FBI
01:42:32 We have two satellite offices one in Fairbanks and one in Juneau
01:42:36 Do you think that that is sufficient resourcing to cover a state that you have acknowledged is?
01:42:44 It's huge. It's 1/5 the size of the the rest of the country
01:42:47 But to be dealing with these issues that are impacting us in disproportionate ways. Do we need more resources up north?
01:42:55 We clearly need more resources
01:42:58 Although I will tell you we need more resources
01:43:01 Just across the board and that the I say sometimes but it applies very much to this context
01:43:08 everywhere I go
01:43:10 Somebody has a really good and I don't mean that sarcastically a really good idea of someplace the FBI needs to be devoting more resources
01:43:17 And I have not yet found anybody who can tell me in any responsible way where the FBI can be devoting less
01:43:23 Resources and so this is a time for Congress to lean forward in the in this next appropriation
01:43:28 I'm very aware of both how small our
01:43:32 Field office our Anchorage Division which as you say includes not just the headquarter city in Anchorage
01:43:39 But the other two RAs as well
01:43:41 By comparison to just the sheer
01:43:44 immense
01:43:46 Area that they have to cover and it always strikes me every time
01:43:50 I'm talking with them about the challenges that that presents not just the sprawl
01:43:55 But how few roads there are and how that people have to get around and all the things that does to complicate law enforcement
01:44:01 Work in that area. So Anchorage needs more resources, but the FBI needs more
01:44:07 Resource FBI needs more resources
01:44:09 The question that I didn't ask you was about the northern border and what we're seeing
01:44:13 With those on the terrorist watch list coming through because we're anxious about that
01:44:17 So we got all kinds of issues and again how we're resourcing
01:44:22 Regardless of where it is is is a challenge. So Thank You manager
01:44:28 Thank You senator Murkowski senator Capito
01:44:31 Thank You madam chair and ranking member and Thank You director Ray for being here with us
01:44:36 It looks like I might be your cleanup batter here. So that might be good
01:44:39 I want to go to something that senator Murkowski was talking about. She talked about her state. You're well aware of West, Virginia
01:44:47 Unfortunately leading the way and our numbers went up a little bit over the last year
01:44:52 Which was very discouraging because we have a lot of communities and community involvement
01:44:55 The FBI has been involved with this on the law enforcement side, but all kinds of issues to try to lower those numbers
01:45:01 So it was a bit disappointing to us
01:45:03 but I wanted to ask of what the FBI the
01:45:06 The drug cartels the transnational criminal organizations that we see along our southern border mostly I would imagine
01:45:13 what kind of
01:45:16 what kind of additional resources or
01:45:19 different strategies
01:45:21 Can the FBI employ because obviously?
01:45:23 Fentanyl still coming streaming across the southern border
01:45:29 They're obviously pressing a lot of the pills as they before they come over the whole thing with the chemicals coming from China
01:45:36 What are you seeing in this in terms of targeting the transcontinental?
01:45:40 criminal organizations
01:45:43 So certainly the the vast majority of the fentanyl in this country
01:45:47 Comes from the cartels in Mexico sourced from precursor chemicals from China, right?
01:45:54 And then it's trafficked here or distributed here primarily by violent gangs
01:45:59 And so I think to be effective against the threat which is really an epidemic
01:46:06 We need to be trying to hit all of those different choke points
01:46:11 The FBI plays a role some role in almost all of them, but not uniquely
01:46:17 This is way bigger than any one government agency. Frankly, it's bigger than government itself
01:46:21 But so we are through our safe streets task forces going after the gangs that are distributing this stuff on the streets
01:46:28 We are through our transnational organized crime
01:46:31 Task forces and working on OSA def strike forces going after the cartels and the cartel leadership which are the source of supply
01:46:39 We are trying to push in our own way the Mexicans and we do have good relationships with our Mexican law enforcement
01:46:47 Counterparts, but but this sort of onesie twosie effect of a great extradition here a takedown there
01:46:53 Those are things to be celebrated, but they really aren't enough to affect the problem at scale and then
01:47:00 The China piece the precursor chemicals is a huge part as well. One of the things we're trying to do now
01:47:07 and I'm very pleased about this the director of national intelligence of real Haynes has
01:47:13 Convened we've been doing an intelligence community sprint on the fentanyl problem to try to figure out how we can better
01:47:19 ensure sharing of information between the different
01:47:23 Intelligence agencies who are not law enforcement and law enforcement to have the information flowing
01:47:29 We clearly have to go after the money after all this whole thing is profit based, right?
01:47:33 So we need to figure out better ways to go after the money
01:47:36 So some of those are some of the things that need to be done
01:47:40 But it is it is incredibly frustrating. I know that our office in West Virginia
01:47:44 Who are dealing with as you say on the receiving end of so much of this problem?
01:47:49 I'm continue to be blown away frankly by how
01:47:55 High-performing those office some of the takedowns they've had in West Virginia for you know, comparatively small footprint
01:48:03 Is really a something that's inspiring. I guess that's a plus and a minus the minus being they're there
01:48:09 the plus being they're being disrupted and
01:48:12 Caught so that's congratulations to them. I know there's been some big busts. I want to ask you about the Nick system
01:48:19 Because the question I have is and thank you for the visit and I thought it was a really good visit
01:48:26 I'm trying to understand your budget where you've you've
01:48:29 You have a technical adjustment of 43 million
01:48:32 Proposed in your budget regarding implementation of the bipartisan safer communities act
01:48:38 We're being told that this could impact the hundred and seventy people that are at the next facility. They're working in that
01:48:42 How is that going?
01:48:44 And I know and can you explain a little bit the anomaly that you have here is one of the program changes for 2025
01:48:50 So there I can see why it's confusing a little bit. There's two things going on. One is the
01:48:56 170 positions that Congress
01:48:59 Gave us with
01:49:01 Fisca right was one-time funding and so one of our requests which I think is
01:49:06 43 million tied to the hundred and seventy positions is
01:49:10 Designed to make sure that one-time funding because we've largely filled almost all of those 170 positions if we don't get that
01:49:18 Reappropriated that's gone
01:49:22 So that's incredibly important that we get those 170 positions and that 43 million reauthorized
01:49:27 So that's part of it then on top of that though
01:49:29 because of the pace and the volume we have asked for a
01:49:34 Smaller but nonetheless an enhancement. So it's it's a bottom line
01:49:39 It's restore the not restore but maintain the hundred and seventy which was one time only and then add and then add a little bit
01:49:46 With the enhancement that we've asked for, you know
01:49:49 Some of this and I'll stop here, but the statistics that we this was early on when the bipartisan
01:49:55 Bill was being discussed at NICS. There were had been some disruptions where
01:50:00 The information showed that it if you knew what had happened pre 18 years old
01:50:07 you you would have fallen into that category and there were disruptions where people were unable to secure a weapon and
01:50:13 Because of mental health or whatever
01:50:15 Is that continuing? I mean is that trend continuing that it's disrupting or we're definitely seeing that
01:50:21 I'm struck by the number of times when we have that, you know, because there's mental health pieces the juvenile piece
01:50:27 and then there's the contact with law enforcement about the the individual piece and that the number of times when the
01:50:33 conversation the exchange with
01:50:36 Law enforcement in whatever state it is is saying. Whoa
01:50:40 Yeah, we know who that is and that would not be a good thing
01:50:44 We are we have significantly improved the the timeliness of those, you know
01:50:51 You and I were there still kind of a work in progress
01:50:54 But it's I think it's up like tenfold how much faster it's happening, which is great
01:50:59 but part of the reason we asked for the enhancement on top of the original part is that
01:51:05 Because of course we're gonna conduct the congressionally mandated checks
01:51:10 But the need more we need what we're very proud as you know, and as I know you are of how
01:51:15 quickly
01:51:17 NICS can turn things around so that the
01:51:20 Giant majority of people who are law-abiding citizens who have a second amendment right to buy their weapon
01:51:27 Can get it timely and not have it be held up. But the problem if we don't get the funds
01:51:31 Appropriated is it's gonna have an impact on on how much we can cover and how fast we can cover it
01:51:37 Yeah, I mean just for context. I saw the the statistics that came that I have just
01:51:43 Last data point is in 2023
01:51:46 there were
01:51:49 29 million
01:51:51 NICS firearm background checks in the country that go through our the office in West Virginia. So thank you very much
01:51:59 Thank You senator Capito, I have not yet asked questions so I will
01:52:05 Do that and that I know senator Moran has one more question, but I wanted to go back to the
01:52:15 Issue of disinformation and election security you talked about China having a 50 to 1 cyber advantage in terms of their
01:52:23 cyber operations
01:52:24 We saw before the New Hampshire primary earlier this year a domestic actor who used artificial intelligence
01:52:31 To voice clone President Biden and target voters in New Hampshire as part of a robocall scam
01:52:36 How how are we responding?
01:52:40 I mean this was a domestic issue, but it points to the potential challenges from AI and
01:52:47 The threat that that can present to our elections
01:52:52 so how are we responding to what we're already seeing from Russia and China in terms of the disinformation and
01:53:00 How are we sharing? How is the FBI sharing what you know with local?
01:53:06 law enforcement and
01:53:08 Election officials so that everybody's aware of what the threat is
01:53:12 So
01:53:15 We are of course seeing and I've been warning about this for some time the the role of AI
01:53:21 to enhance
01:53:24 efforts that our foreign adversaries
01:53:26 Have already been engaged in and one way to think of that is
01:53:30 Just like social media when it first really came of age was this gigantic bullhorn
01:53:36 That took something that has been happening for decades namely foreign disinformation warfare
01:53:41 And just scaled it in a way that was particularly challenging. I think that's the right way to think about AI
01:53:47 it's it's not that it changes fundamentally what it is our adversaries want to do or
01:53:52 Why we need to be worried about or what authorities the FBI has in our role in combating it
01:53:58 It's it's it it allows them to amplify
01:54:01 To do it to make it more sophisticated more deceptive
01:54:06 Cheaper faster all the reasons people love AI for good things. They can use for bad things
01:54:12 And so our approach is in many ways much the same
01:54:16 Which is to make sure that we're engaging with our partners sharing what we're seeing and hearing where we have
01:54:22 authorities that
01:54:24 apply to us taking action
01:54:26 But information sharing is the key
01:54:29 I will say that when it comes to AI
01:54:33 Specifically there's an increasingly important role for the private sector because if you're gonna detect
01:54:38 AI at scale certainly
01:54:42 It's gonna be the American private sector. That's going to be the key to doing that
01:54:46 So we are trying to partner up with the business community to make sure that they're doing their part on
01:54:52 That because AI is actually pretty good at detecting AI
01:54:57 And there is a role America leads the world in AI innovation, which is why the Chinese are trying to steal it by the way
01:55:03 And that's what we need to make sure that American companies are using their innovation to help protect our democracy
01:55:10 so is there more that we should be doing in Congress to
01:55:13 Make it in the interest of some of those companies that they do a better job of policing what is on their sites
01:55:23 Well, that's probably a longer discussion for another day
01:55:26 I will just say for right now because this is important and I know it's something you both care about
01:55:31 When it comes to these companies
01:55:33 There is this broader phenomenon as to how important it is for them to take some kind of ownership
01:55:39 For the way in which their products and services are used and that applies not just in this context
01:55:46 But in some in a subject that you will hear about from law enforcement
01:55:49 Not all not just all over this country, but all over the world is the way in which these companies are implementing warrant proof
01:55:56 encryption
01:55:58 which
01:55:59 Basically means that child predators terrorists fentanyl traffickers, etc
01:56:04 Can find a space where they can go and communicate and act?
01:56:08 and law enforcement
01:56:11 No matter how rock-solid your legal process is and how independent the judicial approval is won't be able to have access to this information
01:56:19 The threats won't be gone. The kids will still be victimized. The predators will still be out there
01:56:24 But now the companies knowing that this is happening are moving in this direction
01:56:28 It's a business decision that these companies are making and so I don't think it's unreasonable
01:56:33 For us to expect these companies to take some ownership
01:56:37 Of this process and if we don't do something collectively as a country
01:56:43 We're going to wake up and find that we are blind in a way that's really gonna put people's lives at risk
01:56:48 Well, that's an excellent segue into my next question, which is
01:56:52 We are hearing about a new and growing threat where individuals have been using content manipulation
01:56:59 So AI to create sexually explicit photos and videos that appear to be real
01:57:04 It complicates investigations because it's difficult to tell what's real and what's not
01:57:09 so I know that the FBI has released a public service announcement earlier this year warning about this but
01:57:17 Can you talk about?
01:57:19 How we're also
01:57:22 Asking private companies to look at that issue and do a better job of policing what's on their sites
01:57:29 Certainly we share your concern about online targeting of kids
01:57:34 It's it's not just magnified the problem, but it's created a whole new set of actors and globalized to the problem
01:57:41 So you have financially motivated extortion for example
01:57:45 Which has started to get more notoriety and AI
01:57:49 It's just one more tool a weapon in that context to to enhance those efforts
01:57:56 But while the technology may change
01:57:58 Whether it's AI generated or not child sexual abuse material is illegal and we're going to aggressively go after it
01:58:06 I would like to continue to work more and more closely with companies to try to see how they can be part of the solution
01:58:14 And I think there's a lot of opportunity for that
01:58:18 We are folks in that program the violent crimes against children program are some of the hardest working people in the entire FBI
01:58:25 Dealing with some of the worst that humanity has to offer
01:58:29 and I think we last year had something like 3,000 arrests and
01:58:34 Rescued for all intents and purposes something like 700 kids
01:58:39 So again, I come back to the budget discussion
01:58:44 What's gonna happen to those kids if Congress makes the mistake of going backwards like they did in 24 with the budget
01:58:51 Well, I think you won't get any argument from Senator Moran or me about that I just want to close with one
01:59:00 Question final question and that has to do with
01:59:04 anomalous health incidents
01:59:07 Also known as Havana syndrome because the FBI has been one of those agencies that's been working to establish
01:59:13 policies and procedures to to provide help for people who are affected can you give us any kind of an update on
01:59:20 where you are in that process and
01:59:23 Whether people are beginning to see support that they had hoped for for treatment
01:59:31 So as you know, there's nothing more important to me than the health and safety of my workforce and their families
01:59:39 and the
01:59:42 benefits
01:59:43 provided for
01:59:45 Required DOJ to issue regulations to allow us to start to make the payments
01:59:50 I'm pleased that those regulations finally went into effect
01:59:54 last month May 20th
01:59:58 We didn't sit around just waiting for that though. We put in place all kinds of procedures and
02:00:05 mechanisms so that the minute
02:00:08 The regulations went into effect we could kick into high gear and start the payment process
02:00:13 And so I know that we have I can't give you the exact number, but I know we have people already
02:00:17 Because we've been trying to improve our communication with the workforce to about this
02:00:22 So I think I know that we already have some people whose payment
02:00:26 Applications and so forth are now already under the rules now in in process
02:00:32 And so I'm hopeful that it'll now flow quickly because we didn't have to then build on additional delay after the time the the rules went
02:00:39 into effect
02:00:40 Great. Thank you. I'm pleased to hear that. Senator Moran sir. Sheen. Thank you
02:00:45 Director, I'm just almost every day certainly every week
02:00:49 I have a conversation with someone in Kansas or a I read something in the newspaper or here on
02:00:55 Television or radio news about a ransomware a cyber attack. I mean, it's just it's prevalent
02:01:02 It's more than prevalent. It's dominant
02:01:04 And it's a you know a small business. It can be the courthouse our state's court system
02:01:10 the county treasurer's office
02:01:13 What what is it that we could be doing?
02:01:17 Perhaps just as public servants to try to minimize the chances that somebody is
02:01:22 Attacked or that they take the necessary steps to prevent it
02:01:26 Is there you talked about the private sector in the in the conversation with Senator Shaheen?
02:01:31 Is there a Chamber of Commerce a business organization?
02:01:35 Who what is there are there steps that a business can take a
02:01:40 County
02:01:42 Commission City Office that can take to prevent this from happening and are there tools that
02:01:48 Need to be provided to local law enforcement to assist in this
02:01:53 I I think this is so common that I don't know how
02:01:57 It the solution can rest with law enforcement of the FBI and in particular
02:02:02 And my guess is that any kind of effort to to prosecute or to shut down
02:02:08 Those who are committing the cyber attacks is ends in
02:02:13 Not a significant amount of results
02:02:16 So
02:02:19 For all the reasons you said ransomware is one of our top certainly one of our top cyber priorities
02:02:25 I think there are a few things I would say
02:02:27 With a glimmer of some good news buried in there
02:02:31 so the first is that
02:02:34 We are very heavily engaged in private sector outreach
02:02:39 Specifically to try to build resilience and harden
02:02:44 the private sectors infrastructure from ransomware attacks
02:02:49 There are basic things
02:02:52 That can be done
02:02:54 You know, for example in terms of having appropriate backups and things like that. I think you would be surprised
02:03:00 To learn how often ransomware attacks are enabled not by some really sophisticated
02:03:07 You know black belt level intrusion, but by somebody somewhere at a business
02:03:13 Who didn't engage in proper cyber hygiene, you know
02:03:17 They clicked on the link that they shouldn't have clicked on it happens way more often than you would expect
02:03:23 Including in very sophisticated places or the company or the business didn't upload the appropriate
02:03:29 You know those patches and updates that we all get those things matter. So things like that if every
02:03:35 Victim or victim to be took some of these basic cyber hygiene steps. We wouldn't stop ransomware
02:03:41 I want to be clear, but we would significantly make it harder for ransomware actors to be successful
02:03:47 So that's one and so the more everybody can help us
02:03:51 Spread that message. We will build some greater level of resilience that way the second thing
02:03:57 That is just incredibly important is we need the victims to reach out to us as quickly as possible when they're hit
02:04:06 I think sometimes people are worried because we discourage paying the ransom that if they tell
02:04:11 Our position is we don't think you should pay the ransom and we're happy to explain why but whatever you decide to do
02:04:17 Make sure you contact us
02:04:20 Because there have been times when businesses have contacted us quickly where we're able
02:04:24 To help them figure out we've there had cases where we've been able to obtain decryption keys
02:04:29 So they can get their systems unlocked
02:04:32 Protect their information and not pay the ransom, but that can't happen if they don't contact us
02:04:38 There are times when we can chase the money
02:04:42 Working with the victim and basically claw back the ransom before it gets to the bad guys
02:04:48 So things like that that we can do but none of it we can do if the company doesn't contact us right away
02:04:54 That's what's so important. There's lots of things that can happen. The last part that I would say is
02:04:58 We are starting to figure out not just the FBI but collectively with our partners
02:05:04 What success against ransomware could look like and that is joint
02:05:08 sequenced operations
02:05:11 campaigns sustained campaigns against particular ransomware actors where we go after not just the
02:05:18 The administrators of the ransomware group and and their affiliates but their whole ecosystem their money launderers their
02:05:26 Service providers, you know their bulletproof hosters all that stuff
02:05:30 So we're going after all the people that are related to the ransomware group. We're going after their infrastructure
02:05:37 So we're seizing their servers shutting down their domain things like that. So we're going after the people
02:05:43 We're going after the infrastructure and then of course ransomware is a you know as a for-profit
02:05:48 Crime we're going after their money. We're chasing their crypto currency, which is invariably the way the ransoms are paid and we're getting better at
02:05:56 Disrupting the flow of the ransom back to the ransomware actors. We're not where we need to be
02:06:03 But we are starting to see signs. We've had situations where we'll knock down a particular ransomware group and they're
02:06:09 Flailing around and out of business for you know months and months at a time. So we get we've gotten it
02:06:16 We started to get a taste of
02:06:18 What success could look like and it's again. It's a joint. It's a team effort FBI
02:06:22 Some of the other intelligence agencies foreign law enforcement the private sector itself all kind of working together
02:06:30 And so we have had some successes. I think about the hive ransomware group where we had basically hacked the hackers and
02:06:38 Gotten into that and they didn't know we were in and so there's much they kept trying to conduct ransomware attacks
02:06:45 We kept getting the decryption keys and providing them to the victims and then it wasn't working
02:06:49 Eventually, we dismantled the whole thing, but we're getting more innovative and creative and using
02:06:56 Court authorized operations not just to try to arrest people. Although we definitely want to do that but to essentially shut down
02:07:03 the
02:07:05 the operation itself that is more encouraging than I expected if if someone is
02:07:11 subject to ransomware
02:07:13 cyber attack
02:07:14 They'd call their local police department their county sheriff and those local law enforcement officials would know what to do
02:07:22 Is that a is that?
02:07:24 A true statement would not know what would not would know what to do local law enforcement knows what the next step
02:07:30 Well, I think we try to engage with local law enforcement as you know, because you've seen it firsthand in Kansas every day
02:07:36 My hope would be that the local law enforcement would tell them contact that local FBI field off, but really they should be contacting us
02:07:43 Because there are things that we can do that probably the local police chief or sheriff, you know can't
02:07:51 But of course
02:07:53 Again, I'm gonna sound repetitive here. All these things take resources and in particular in the cyber arena
02:07:59 we need to be able to make sure we can pay and
02:08:02 Train the most sophisticated cyber talent and that is an issue within the federal government
02:08:08 to make sure that pay authorities and
02:08:11 Of course the funds that are appropriated behind it are even
02:08:16 Across the federal government. So we don't have a situation which I am concerned about where
02:08:21 other federal agencies start cannibalizing each other for the cyber talent that we all need so we do need to make sure that there's
02:08:29 pay authorities and pay funding to ensure that real black belt talent
02:08:35 Who makes all the difference in some of these cases the FBI has kept those authorities?
02:08:40 Do you have those pay authorities our authorities are not where they need to be?
02:08:45 So it's a combination of both the funding and the authorities
02:08:49 It's a it's a mix and I wonder if insurance private insurance is a component of addressing this problem
02:08:55 More more businesses or entities that get insured against a ransomware attack
02:09:01 I assume the insurance companies that are going to insist on different behavior by their insured
02:09:07 I do think insurance, you know cyber insurance is an important part of all this
02:09:12 Now I will say we see ransomware actors researching
02:09:16 Victims and researching insurance to try to figure out, you know
02:09:21 It's kind of like well
02:09:22 I want to figure out how much they have in their wallet before I rob them, you know kind of thing
02:09:25 So there's a little bit of that going on, but I would not discourage people from getting the insurance
02:09:29 And we do have our own engagements with the cyber insurers as well to try to make sure we're working with them
02:09:37 So that's another important piece to all of this. I would compliment you on your capability of being repetitive today. Thank you
02:09:44 You think we got the message
02:09:49 Thank You director ray if there are no further questions
02:09:56 Senators may submit any additional questions for the subcommittees official hearing record until June the 11th
02:10:02 We would ask that the FBI respond within 30 days to any of those future questions
02:10:07 And now the subcommittee stands in recess subject to the call of the chair. Thank you
02:10:12 You
02:10:14 You
02:10:16 You
02:10:18 You
02:10:20 [BLANK_AUDIO]

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