Ruhan Kapoor, singer-actor son of Mahendra Kapoor, who sang some of Hindi cinema’s most iconic songs, speaks with Mayank Chhaya on Mahendra Kapoor’s 90th birth anniversary | SAM Conversation
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00:00 [Music]
00:08 In 1957, a handsome 23-year-old from Punjab stood in front of the grandees of Hindi cinema music.
00:17 Anil Biswas, Naushad Ali, Sriram Chandra, Vasant Desai and Madan Mohan.
00:23 A few minutes later, he won a prestigious All India Singing Competition, setting him off on a glorious career in playback singing.
00:32 The young man was Mahendra Kapoor, who sang some of Hindi cinema's most iconic songs.
00:39 That he did so in the looming shadows of music greats such as Mahmud Rafi, Kishore Kumar, Talat Mahmud, Manna Dey and Mukesh,
00:47 to whom he was between 15 and 5 years junior, gives Mahendra Kapoor a unique place.
00:54 One of the rewards of the Metro Murphy Singing Competition in 1957 was that the winner may get to sing a line or two in songs composed by the judges.
01:05 In Mahendra Kapoor's case, it turned out to be a whole song for Sriram Chandra for the movie Navarang, produced and directed by the legendary V. Shantaram.
01:16 The song was the enduring hit Aadha Hai Chandrama Raata Zeevith, Asha Bahusle, who was already a widely successful playback singer by then.
01:26 This year marks Mahendra Kapoor's 90th birth anniversary.
01:30 My Inshaar Report spoke to his singer-actor son Rohan Kapoor, who continues his father's glorious legacy doing concerts around the world.
01:40 Now Mahendra Kapoor's grandson Siddhant too has emerged as a successful composer and singer.
01:47 He joined the conversation as well. Rohan and Siddhant Kapoor.
01:52 Welcome to My Inshaar Report. Rohan bhai, it's a great pleasure to have you.
01:57 Thank you so much, Mehendra bhai. Same here, likewise. It's a great pleasure and honor to be here with you today.
02:03 Thank you very much. I'm sure you know this year marks the 90th birth anniversary of your illustrious and gifted father, Mr. Mahendra Kapoor.
02:13 I wanted to know, what is your earliest memory of him as a child?
02:20 I have beautiful memories with him. If I say, right as a child, he was a very caring, a very doting, a very loving father.
02:33 Extremely loving person. By his nature, he was a very loving person.
02:40 But his one very unique feature, his unique nature was that he never showed his popularity or his, you know, the way people adulated him, loved him.
02:56 It never reflected upon his personality, anytime, anywhere.
03:00 But, unless he was in a show where people are, you know, mocking him and asking for photographs and autographs.
03:09 But, humein bahut dev tak toh varjit raha, you know, you'll be amazed.
03:16 I must have been in the 6th or 7th standard and the principal of my school, St. Mary's School in Bombay, seemed to have contacted my father by himself
03:26 and told him that, "Mr. Kapoor, we're having a show in the school and we would like to call you as the chief guest and you should attend it."
03:36 So, my father agreed to that and I, little did I know that this was happening.
03:41 We all knew that something is happening in the auditorium there.
03:44 But then, suddenly when my father came from the window of my class, I was seeing a lot of teachers suddenly running towards him and asking for autographs.
03:54 And, you know, there was a photographer kept to take photographs with him and the thing and I'm wondering,
03:59 abhi toh kitne logon ke father hai? Why is everyone troubling my father like that?
04:04 And, till a very, very late age, I would say, I realized or I even came to know that he is such a famous personality.
04:16 And, the teachers, kaka over him and the students, you know, our seniors, of course, they knew what he was.
04:23 We were all too young kids. We didn't know, you know.
04:27 But, aisa unka mizaaj tha. He was a very simple soul, a very down to earth person.
04:34 He would never, I mean, he was never a pompous or a proud of his work. Never, never.
04:41 You know, I was watching some of his interviews in the run-up to a conversation.
04:46 It struck me that he was such a amiable, very low-key, almost shy person when he didn't sing.
04:55 There was a particular conversation between him and his dear friend, Mr. Amin Sayani, that I watched on Syadri TV.
05:03 They were very close friends, I know for a fact.
05:06 So, but, you know, it was almost as if Amin bhai had to extract words out of your father's mouth.
05:13 He was that low-key. Obviously, you grew up with him. So, is that what you remember too?
05:20 Absolutely, Amin bhai. We used to, you know, at some times he amazed us.
05:29 We used to, like, I'll tell you a unique thing. I mean, his modesty, his humility went to, like,
05:40 sometimes it's just, you would say, being read in storybooks or in moral stories somewhere.
05:47 And he really led that type of a life. I, very often I hear about Dr. Abdul Kalam, our ex-president.
05:54 And I remember my father so often that, you know, there was so many similarities and great people.
06:01 He was such a noble soul. He was such a noble soul. He was more concerned about his staff, about his assistants, about his...
06:10 And at the same time, very jovial person. He was not a very serious person.
06:14 A very jovial person. He would laugh. He was a terrific mimicry artist. He could mimic anyone.
06:21 He was a very good mimicry artist. Yeah, yeah. After that show, all our musicians used to wait.
06:30 "Papaji, aayenge show ke baad?" My father normally used to tell them that, "You all get together, have a drink."
06:37 Because he was a teetotaler. "Aap log drink karo. Main aunga waha. I'll spend some time with you.
06:42 Then I'll leave for my hotel and you people enjoy yourselves." But they used to not drink in front of him.
06:47 So he knew ke wo peh peh enjoy nahi karega, agar main raunga yaha par. So he would go there and they would wait.
06:53 "Papaji, yeh jo organizer tha, iski kya peculiarities aapne dhundi?" So he would imitate people.
06:59 He would imitate some character who we met in the morning or someone who came to receive him at the airport.
07:05 He would... He was like a... He had a camera type of a thing, you know. He used to capture images.
07:10 And he would... Yeah. And he... It was terrific. I mean, he was something like that.
07:16 At the same time, extremely humble, extremely down to earth. Very, very grounded person.
07:22 You know, it's a very interesting segue for me because in that same interview, Mr. Sayani speaks of your father being an excellent stage actor and a terrific... with a terrific comic timing.
07:36 Yeah. Yeah. Which prompts me to ask you, why is it that you think he didn't also take to the life of an actor?
07:46 Aapne kiya, unhone nahi kiya, aap batayiye kyu nahi kiya?
07:50 I think it was my mother. It was my mother and her family. See, I'll tell you, he was always a singer in St. Xavier's College.
08:00 That's a college that... He was a St. Xavier's student, a school student as well as a St. Xavier's College student.
08:07 So, when he came into college and they had that Sangeet Natya, that academy where, you know, the children, they do there.
08:15 So, he was very, very popular in his college for... as being a singer.
08:19 At the same time, there was a very, very popular director who was his colleague, Vijay Anand, Dev Anand's brother.
08:29 So, Vijay Anand sahib was at the same time in the college as a fabulous director of plays.
08:37 Ab woh unko talaash se ki mujhe koi, jiska lehza acha ho, jiski talafuz ache hain ho, aisa ek bachay ki unko talaash se.
08:46 And his eye went on my father when he was singing. So, my father used to sing, in those days, Salat sahib's songs or Rafi sahib's songs or, you know, whichever were the popular singers were in those days.
08:57 So, he used to say, "Mahinder, your diction, every word you speak is so clear. And so, you know, you are very clear in your diction and your expressions are so beautiful. Why don't you try your hand at acting?"
09:10 So, my father told him outrightly, "No, no, no. Goldie." They used to call him Goldie.
09:15 "This is not my cup of tea. I am a singer. I know I am a performer. But I don't think I can act."
09:21 He says, "Why are you deciding that? Let me decide that."
09:24 The first play they did together was called Rehearsal. And that play did so well, so well that it came in the Intercollegiate, you know, in the mainstream, in the Intercollegiate.
09:40 And they went to Delhi. And this play won the award. And that won the award by Jawaharlal Nehru sahib.
09:49 Oh, really?
09:51 Yes, as a best actor. He was a comedy player.
09:55 That's quite remarkable. You know, I am glad you mentioned that because to digress a little bit before I get into the main questions and come back to one simple fact that in 1957, he won the All India Singing Competition.
10:12 Where the judges were absolute masters of their domain.
10:17 You had Anil Biswa, you had Naushad, you had Madan Mohan, you had Vasant Desai and you had Sriram Chandra.
10:25 Now, these were the giants of the day. To win in front of them meant absolutely everything for a young singer like your father.
10:35 So he won as an actor later on in college. But before that, he had already won a very major contest, which led to his career.
10:43 Did he ever talk to you about that?
10:47 See, in chronology, during his colleging days, he was already very popular.
10:56 And then it was almost towards the end of his college time that this Metro Muffy contest came up.
11:04 And at that time, a friend of his, his name was Surinder Kapoorji, who without even informing him, filled his name and sent the form.
11:16 And told him, "Mahinder, I know you are a fabulous singer and I want you to participate in this competition."
11:22 So my father got a little bit amused at him. "Are you crazy? That's an All India competition. Where do you think I will stand? There are such brilliant singers today."
11:30 He said, "What is the harm in trying?" So he said, "Okay." And then he tried.
11:35 And he passed from the state level, then he came to the country level. And then he was awarded the Metro Muffy award, of course.
11:44 And at that time, immediately after that, he got work from Noshad Saab. And the first thing was from C. Ramchandraji and Dutta Saab.
11:56 And Dutta Saab gave him a lot of work. So, when he recorded for Navrang, which was his very first film and a big hit.
12:08 So, after that, Vishant Aramji became after him. "Mahinder, you are such a good looking singer. I want you to play the main lead in my film."
12:18 And that film was... Pathar... What was that? In the film in which Jitendra Saab became the hero.
12:31 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I am sorry. I am sure we will come back. But I know which one you mean.
12:40 And my father came back home. And he was already married. He was married very young in our family. In those days, that's how it used to be.
12:50 And my wife, his wife, that's my mother, she got a little low. And my grandparents said, "No, Mahinder. You are very good as a singer. Stay a singer.
13:01 Don't venture into acting and all that, son. Then you will be limited only as an actor-singer. Don't do that.
13:08 Emphasize on your singing career. You are a brilliant singer." So, then he had to tell no to Vishant Aramji.
13:17 You know, to talk about a very important friendship association...
13:22 Sorry. Geet Gaya Patroni.
13:24 Geet Gaya Patroni.
13:25 Their film was Geet Gaya Patroni. Yes.
13:27 Yes, yes.
13:28 Then he was offered the lead role in Geet Gaya Patroni.
13:31 That's the one. I didn't know that. Yeah.
13:34 You know, to come back to something which I am sure has been in your family for a long time, his great association, great friendship, great admiration and great influence, Mahmud Rafi Saab.
13:48 Yes.
13:49 They were separated by 10 years. Mahmud Rafi was born in 1924, your father in '34. So, there was a gap of 10 years between the two.
13:57 Yes.
13:58 In fact, Kapoor Saab had said in the same interview that when he was 10-11 years old, he had taken some training from Rafi Saab to sing.
14:09 So, their association was a very long association for quite some time.
14:14 Tell me, what are your memories of your father talking about the great Mahmud Rafi?
14:19 And what do you remember the most in terms of the striking association between these two remarkable singers?
14:26 My association with Rafi Saab, with Rafi I would say, was something beyond… there are words in vocabulary which I could mention.
14:42 The first song he heard of Rafi Saab was, you know, he was singing with a duet with Noorjahanji, Madam Noorjahanji.
14:57 (sings)
15:14 So, this was a song that flowed my father. And he said, "Mere jaise Rom Rom mein wo abaaz jo thi, wo gunjni shiro hogi."
15:22 He said, "I fell in love with his voice." And in those days, it was not so easy. The media was not so elaborate.
15:28 People were not so popular. People knew who the singers were, more or less, but it was not like, you know, the big, big thing cinema had to do.
15:37 The last five years were not celebrities.
15:39 Yeah, I'm talking about 1947.
15:42 Yeah.
15:43 So, my father became a divine follower of this voice, unknowing who the singer is. And in those days, record, which was called Tawa,
15:55 "Oye, Tawa lai ke aayi, Tawa, Punjabi."
15:57 "Oye, Tawa lai ke aayi, Tawa, Punjabi."
15:59 So, at the end of that, the singers used to say, "Maine, Main Muhammad Rafi, Noorjahanji, Main Noorjahan."
16:07 The singers used to pronounce their own name. The label never even mentioned their name earlier. It was so.
16:16 Yeh cheez Lata ji ne shuru karwai thi, ke singers ka naam hona chahiye iske upar, in India.
16:21 And, Mahim bhai, us zamane mein, he came from... So, he used to go to school, and then he got to know ki yeh jo singer hai,
16:31 Janab Muhammad Rafi sahab hai. And he used to write Rafi Rafi in the books. Yeh badi maar bhi khai, unhone.
16:38 So, Catholic teacher bishari samajhti nahi thi, "Arey, tum kya paagal hai? Hum geography shikhata hai.
16:43 "Tum Rafi Rafi likhta hai. Kaun hai yeh Rafi?"
16:45 Wo bhi bichche rehte, bole, "Kuch nahi, wo chup rehte the. Ab nakhil pe maar rahe hain, wo ro rahe hain, lekin wo...
16:51 "Phir bhi apne usme se, hargaton se baaz nahi aaye, wo."
16:55 Unka ek ladka tha, unke saath jo betta tha, he was a Muslim boy. Toh usne bola, "Kapoor, I think this gentleman,
17:03 "this name sounds like a Muslim name." So, dad said, "Yeah, must be."
17:07 Toh he said, "Ki, I'll ask my father, if I can get you his... Would you like to meet him?"
17:13 Toh yeh tha, "You are asking?" Toh yeh tha, "Oh, that would be the greatest thing in my life."
17:17 Toh usne kahin se pata kiya, my dad went to one, Muhammad Rafi sahab, who had a laundry.
17:23 And my father told, "Ki, I want to talk to you and meet."
17:27 "Beta, what for?" Kita, "I love your music." "But I'm a laundry man, I'm not on..."
17:32 So, he understood that dad was in search of Muhammad Rafi sahab, who was a singer.
17:36 Ab baha se, unko Bindi Bazaar ka unko address dilaya.
17:40 Dad bohot pyare se bachche the, bade rolu polu, bade chubby bachche the.
17:44 Bola, "Yeh bachha toh bohot pyare, bade khanani bachcha hai, usko mai address dhund ke deta hu."
17:49 "Toh beta, do din ke baad aana, mai ab apko sahi address dhunga, aapke Muhammad Rafi ka."
17:54 So, dad went there to Rafi sahab. And Rafi sahab and his elder brother,
17:59 the person who actually made very few people speak about him, very few people know about him,
18:04 but the actual person who made Rafi sahab was Hameed bhai, his elder brother.
18:09 He was the foundation of Rafi sahab. He was the person who got Rafi sahab from Lahore to Bombay.
18:15 And he used to work in the railways and was a very, very close family friend of Rafi sahab's family in Lahore.
18:22 So, they were not very literate people there in Rafi sahab's family.
18:27 So, they were very scared, ke hum kaise beta ko bhijenge, how will he go to Bombay and what will happen.
18:33 Toh Hameed bhai ne pehel ki aur unhe kaha ki, "Nahin, yeh mere bhai samana chhuta,
18:37 main isko leke jaata hu Bombay and I will see whatever I can do for him there."
18:41 So, Hameed bhai got him here to Rafi sahab and then unko sab milaya,
18:46 Noshad sahab se and Pandit Shyam Sundar ji se and all these composers who were there at that time.
18:52 So, coming back to our story, dad went to meet Rafi sahab in the midst of the 1947 chaos that was happening in India.
19:00 The partition and all the jagde chugade jo aur de.
19:04 Bekin Hameed bhai and Rafi sahab got an instant fancy for my father.
19:08 So, my father went there, unke saath, unse talim liye and for many years, Rafi sahab and my father became inseparables.
19:16 Rafi sahab used to come to our house, he used to come to meet my grandparents, he was very fond of good food, Punjabi food.
19:25 Toh Rafi sahab phone karte the meri grandmother ko, "Biji pature chhole khane, aaj hi lassi peeni hai, lassi ka vada shaukh maante."
19:34 Toh, "Re Rafi sahab aao na." Toh aake bade pyar se bhajan bhi sunaate the meri grandparents ko.
19:42 Aur jab woh recordings pe jaya karte toh dad, "Biji ko phone, Biji, Minder school toh aage hai?" Punjabi bhi bolte the.
19:49 Dheeme baat karte the. That's what my father told me, I mimic him very well.
19:55 "Biji, Minder school toh aage hai?" Biji keh rahi, "Hanji Rafi sahab school toh aage hai, koi tuition wajahat hai nahi?"
20:02 Bole nahi Rafi sahab. "Thalle peesi hoon, aaj recording jaana hai main."
20:07 Toh the servant used to take dad in his short pants and a t-shirt, he used to stand down, and Rafi sahab used to get his car and pick up dad, and then they used to go for recordings.
20:17 And this continued for years. But it was not a small issue, it was a long-term issue.
20:23 I know, you know, that's why I asked. You know, you were born in '65, right?
20:29 Me, yeah. I was born in '65.
20:32 So basically you saw Rafi sahab throughout your early teens and teens and perhaps late teens. You saw him up close.
20:42 Yeah.
20:44 Tell me what you remember of that great man.
20:48 Well, see, he was a man of very few words. Bahut kam bolte the. Mere mundan pe aaye the.
20:57 And dad invited him for my mundan party and it was in a very beautiful hotel in Bombay. It was called the Natraj Hotel on Murrin Drive.
21:05 I know that, yes.
21:07 Aanji, toh aake upar aaye hall pe, Asha ji bhi thi, mother Mohan ji thi, bahut industry aaye thi.
21:13 Toh aake, when he was leaving, dad told, "Aao bhaji, main aapko nishe gaadi the, chhod ke aata hu."
21:20 By that time, dad was already very popular.
21:22 "Nahi, nahi, Mithar, koi baat nahi. Daniel nahi, aap chalo." He insisted and he went down to leave him.
21:27 So when they came down to the lobby and he saw that large chandelier and everything, you know, so beautiful.
21:32 He's telling my father, "Mithar, yaar tu bohot jaldi itna paisa kamali hai, itna sundar ghar banali hai tune."
21:38 Toh, "Bhaji, kaunsa?" He said, "Yeh, ghar nahi, bungalow nahi tumhaar."
21:45 "Bhaji, yeh toh hotel nahi, yaha aap aaye ho. Yeh mera bungalow thodi."
21:49 Very noble, very simple person.
21:53 And dad bhi usko ghaadi mein bithaya.
21:56 Aapar, wapas aagaye.
21:57 Matlab, I mean, we have beautiful memories.
21:59 He came for all my sister's weddings.
22:01 He used to come.
22:03 Aur bahut pyaar tha.
22:04 Taisi, Eid pe, unhone biryani bhej deni humare ghar pe.
22:07 Khana, sabhiya bhej deniya.
22:09 Diwali pe, dad used to take sweets and go to his house.
22:12 It was a very, very, very, very beautiful memory.
22:15 Yeah. You know, your father began with a blockbuster hit,
22:19 "Aadhaar Chandrama Ya Raat Aadhi" with Sriram Chandra.
22:23 It was a huge hit, which still resonates after these many decades.
22:27 Did he ever mention those early days to you as you were growing up?
22:35 Did he ever discuss how tough or how easy it was for him to become what he became?
22:41 I think, man, it was really tough.
22:46 It was very tough because the standard of music was very high in those days.
22:51 It was not only the popular singers.
22:55 If you hear several interviews of all the singers, whether it was Kishore Da,
23:00 whether it was Rafi Sahab, mainly to name, and my father,
23:03 they would all say that there are such nice, beautiful voices
23:06 who never saw it on the silver screen.
23:09 But God was kind to us and our voices, and we have been able to express ourselves
23:14 through our music, and our voices have reached every house.
23:18 But it was a very tough time.
23:21 And so were the composers who were very well-read, very educated in music.
23:26 Each one of them was actually a master by himself, I would say.
23:30 And it was a lot of your capability, your good behavior,
23:47 your etiquette in the studios, which a lot of things mattered at the time,
23:56 unlike today's time. And everything was live.
24:00 Because I have seen recordings as a child where 200-200 musicians are sitting,
24:04 and my father is singing over there, and you had a hair-raising voice in the monitor room.
24:09 Because of, whether it was Ravi ji, Lakshmigaan Perelal, or Nair Sahab,
24:16 or any of them, the big star, Kalyanji Anandji.
24:19 So there were a lot of musicians there.
24:22 Can you imagine, in the hall of musicians, the capability you can imagine from there,
24:30 the flute is Pandit Hari Prasad Chaurasia, who is a maestro today.
24:34 On the Santur is Shiv Kumar ji, who is again a maestro.
24:39 Tabla is Ustad Karim Khan sahib, used to be there.
24:42 Gitar is Raees Khan sahib, used to be there.
24:44 So this was the hundred musicians, so this was the standard of music in those days.
24:49 Each one of them is a master by himself.
24:52 So each one of them is a legend by himself.
24:55 So it was, what do you call it in Hindi, Samagam of legends.
25:01 It was a Samagam of great people.
25:03 And such music was made in it, people were so scared.
25:07 Now, in the whole song, see, Hari Prasad ji's, which will be a few seconds long piece.
25:14 Raees Khan sahib's will be a few seconds long piece.
25:19 But they used to give such a high-rating performance, that people used to say wow, wow, wow.
25:24 What a piece it is.
25:26 And such was the attention of people, such was the thought of such people,
25:32 that I will win and leave from here, I will win everyone's heart and leave from here.
25:38 And the competition of each one was so healthy, because of that this music was so beautiful.
25:44 Absolutely, you are absolutely right.
25:46 You know, your father had reminisced about the recording of Aadhaar Chandrama.
25:51 Sriram Chandra apparently was at the back and your father's voice wasn't reaching.
25:57 So he kept saying cut every few seconds.
26:00 Finally he came up front and he said, "I am not able to do it, I won't be able to sing it."
26:05 And Asha ji said, "You are singing very well, why are you saying that? Stand here and listen."
26:11 And then they realized the cable to the microphone had come off.
26:15 Yes, I checked it happened.
26:17 And the voice wasn't reaching Sriram Chandra and he couldn't figure out why he was so nervous,
26:22 when he was not nervous at all, he was singing extremely well.
26:25 Yeah.
26:26 So those were the challenges in those days.
26:29 True, very true. And both were there, Sriram Chandra and Vishant Alam both were there.
26:35 Vishant Alam ji had come to the stage, so he asked Anna in Marathi,
26:38 "Kaise daale, this boy has become nervous?"
26:41 He said, "He is a very good singer, but we will dub him again, we will record it again."
26:47 So he came and said, "Don't worry, you chill, you sit down and I will let Asha ji sing."
26:52 So he said, "What happened?"
26:53 "Siri, inka aawaz hi nahi aarahi, kaise nahi aarahi hai.
26:56 I can hear him, he is standing right next to me and singing so loud and clear,
26:59 why isn't his voice reaching?"
27:01 He said, "I don't know."
27:02 "Pitha karo."
27:04 So the recordist came out himself.
27:06 So the assistant recordist, jo wall mein plug karte hain usko,
27:10 the wire that cable came from the microphone to the wall, was not plugged properly.
27:15 So he pulled it out and pushed it back in.
27:18 And he said, "Suddenly the voice became so beautiful."
27:20 He said, "Oh, I am so sorry."
27:22 His booming voice came out.
27:24 So Asha aunty's interference, I would say, or rather her gesture of telling them,
27:34 "No, don't do that because this boy is singing very well."
27:37 So she…
27:39 Kapoor sahab ne toh yeh kaha ki shayad agar wo nahi hota toh meri career ussi baak khatam hone thi.
27:45 Absolutely right.
27:47 Kyunki impression pad jata hai ki yeh ladka toh microphone pe aage, nervous ho jata hai.
27:50 Ji. Bilkul, bilkul.
27:53 You know, interestingly, I was again going through your father's filmography.
27:57 He was intrinsic to the golden era, which is the 1960s.
28:03 I mean, we can go through any number of songs, but a couple of things jumped out at me.
28:09 Your father had some of the finest songs with Ravi and Sahil Rudhiaan Bhi.
28:15 Aaj subah mein aag ga raha tha gaana, "Sansaar ki har shay ka itna hi fasaana hai."
28:21 What a fantastic song.
28:23 What a fantastic song.
28:25 Lyrics dekhi hunki.
28:27 I mean, to me, it's the same philosophical brilliance as "Main zindagi ka saath nivata chala gaya."
28:33 Bilkul, bilkul.
28:35 Tell me something. Did Mr. Kapoor ever discuss his career singing as he…
28:43 As you were growing older, you were becoming aware of what good singing is.
28:47 You were obviously looking at something similar.
28:50 In geeton ki kabhi aapke saath baat hoti thi unki?
28:53 Yeah. See, the era demanded a lot of hard work, mind you.
29:01 Whether it was writers, whether it was composers, whether it was singers,
29:08 everybody used to put in 100% of themselves, or probably 110% of themselves.
29:14 Like when Ravi uncle, after my father passed away in 2008, my son Siddhant, who's also a composer with your blessings,
29:22 he and I went to meet Ravi uncle at his bungalow.
29:26 He invited. Kisi show ke liye jaana tha humne, toh unhone bulaya tha wahan par mujhe bungalow pe.
29:31 So we both went there. Toh aapne baatein karne shuru kar di.
29:34 Kita hai, "Rohan, do you know, chalo ek baar phirse ajnabi ban jaye hum dono.
29:38 Iske maine 42 dhune banayi thi. 42 tunes."
29:42 Arre, achha.
29:44 "Kite hai, the 42nd tune, they approved."
29:47 Aur kita hai, "usme itni ache si dhune banayi jo, uske baad nikah mein,
29:51 maine jitni dhune banayi, usseb unki rejects thi jo, uss time ki rejects thi merei."
29:56 That's fascinating.
29:58 Yeah. So, I mean, that was the type of hard work.
30:02 And then, like, ab dadne gaadiya unke saath.
30:06 Ji.
30:08 Rehearsal ki unhone.
30:10 Ab, jaise rehearsal unki khatam hui,
30:13 ki Chopra sahab ki entry hui,
30:15 ya B.R. Chopra sahab ki.
30:17 Yash ji toh wahi hote the. Yash ji used to never leave, you know.
30:21 He was addicted to music and Sair sahab and everyone.
30:24 And my father, of course.
30:26 Toh woh behte rehte the, "Itni dev mein Chopra sahab hai, B.R. Chopra sahab."
30:31 "Oye yaar, main sunna hai yaar. Ek bari please, 'Faith' toh suna de."
30:34 So dad, again, he used to say, "Sing the same song."
30:37 Ab woh khatam hua, "Wa wa wa wa wa wa, 'Itni dev mein'."
30:40 Kisi aur ki entry ho gai. "Ek baar, ek baar aur, ek baar aur, bas ek baar."
30:44 Itni baar woh ek baar, ek baar aur, ek baar aur ho jata tha.
30:47 He said, "By the time I reached the microphone, I never even needed the script.
30:52 I knew the song by heart. I remember the song by heart."
30:55 But what used to happen was, you were just brushing yourself
30:59 and brushing your art and brushing your art.
31:01 So that, that, that, and without any, you know,
31:06 it was never a burden. It was more a pleasure.
31:10 It was more a pleasure. "Chalo, phir khaate hain. Chalo, phir khaate hain."
31:14 Mada maza aata tha. It was a very...
31:16 Yeah. I mean, how to describe that era is very difficult.
31:21 I can imagine that. I can imagine that.
31:23 You know, these are difficult personal decisions,
31:26 but I'm going to stick my neck out and say that
31:29 from your father's extraordinary career,
31:32 three songs which to me are perhaps his greatest.
31:35 One, of course, I just told you, "Sansar Ki Arsh Shai Ka."
31:39 The second one was "Chalo, Ek Baar Phirse Ajnavi Ban Jayein Hum Dono."
31:45 Terrific writing.
31:47 And to me, perhaps Mr. Kapoor's greatest song was
31:52 "Aap Aaye Toh Khayal-e-Dil-e-Nashad Aaya."
31:55 He put... In fact, I mean, I'm saying that as a tribute to him,
32:00 that Mohammad Rafi would have been happy to hear the way he sang that song.
32:05 He was that brilliant in that song.
32:08 What are your choices? These are my choices.
32:11 Of course, there's much to choose from, but the three songs, these are the songs.
32:14 But do you know, Mehendra bhai, you just said what actually happened.
32:18 When this song came out, Rafi sahib used to call up my father.
32:23 "Mithra, yaar aisa gaya, itna acha gaya."
32:27 He used to be very fascinated by the soft singing of my father.
32:31 In fact, there was another song, if you remember,
32:34 "Ennata Gatha Bool Sakta Bala, Kaun Yeh Pyari Aankhen."
32:37 Very soft and very tender song.
32:39 He had sung it for Shashi Kapoor sahib.
32:41 And Dharam Kutarka saab.
32:44 Now, the day after its release, Rafi sahib called up.
32:48 Then he used to get a plate of sweets.
32:51 He said, "Mehendra, you sang so soft, I really enjoyed it."
32:54 He said, "I liked it."
32:57 Because they love each other a lot.
33:01 And for a long time, Mr. Kapoor used to be called sort of another Muhammad Rafi
33:09 in terms of the way they were very similar.
33:12 But I thought your father had a much more robust voice when it came to some of the songs.
33:19 Yeah. Dad began his career journey, of course, by his ideal was Rafi sahib.
33:25 Undisputedly.
33:27 But then he was also very influenced by the western singers.
33:30 They are very open-throated.
33:33 Their expressions are open. Their voice is open.
33:39 And he used to love their style also.
33:41 He used to experiment a lot on those styles.
33:43 Now, the same voice which is singing, "Chalo ek baar firse" or "Aap aaye to khyaale dile na shahad aaya"
33:50 and suddenly you hear, "Chhande chhande paani se nahana chahiye"
33:54 or "Amar desh ki rath de" or the same.
33:57 They are two different. It's so different.
33:59 In today's times, you would say two different legends would be singing those styles of songs.
34:04 Those genre of songs.
34:06 But they had covered such a big compass.
34:09 Their rainbow was so big of so many colors they had in their voices
34:15 that it was difficult to put them in a niche type of a thing.
34:19 "Oh, he can only sing this type of song."
34:21 It was not like that.
34:22 Of course, he became popular.
34:24 He would say, of course, that "Yaar yeh patriotism na mujhe bahut popular kar di hai."
34:28 Again, he used to personally love these beautiful, meaningful songs.
34:36 You'll be happy to know that the song that you like, "Sansaar ki Harshe ka"
34:40 was one of his own personal favorites.
34:42 Oh, acha. How nice.
34:44 You could feel that the singer has put his soul into this song.
34:49 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
34:51 You can figure, you know, when you hear that, you can immediately know that
34:54 "Yaahaan sab unhone nichod ke daal diya."
34:57 Yeah.
34:59 You talked about patriotism.
35:02 "Mere desh ki dharti," of course, one has to talk about that.
35:05 He won the national award for that.
35:07 And he had a particular affinity with Kalyanji, Anandji,
35:11 although I don't think he sang a lot of his songs, their songs,
35:15 but "Upkaar" was the epitome for Mr. Kapoor.
35:20 What do you remember of "Mere desh ki dharti"?
35:23 See, "Mere desh ki dharti" story goes from here.
35:28 I would just tell you that Manoj Kumar sahib was working on a film called "Shaheed,"
35:32 which was based on the life of Bhagat Singh sahib,
35:35 the first one which was made in black and white.
35:38 And my father sang that iconic song, "Mera rang de Basanti chola,"
35:41 with Mukesh ji and, yeah.
35:44 But that time, if you see the film,
35:50 there are some very sensitive, soft parts where Bhagat Singh is alone on the terrace
35:55 or in the jail when he is hit by the Britishers,
35:59 and he is remembering his parents and his life.
36:02 So, those parts, he wanted my father to sing with complete passion,
36:06 because it was going to be picturized on Manoj ji, which was Bhagat Singh, of course.
36:09 So, my father put in so much of his...
36:13 If you hear them, Manoj uncle still tells me, "Rohan, I get tears in my eyes."
36:18 The way Mahendra ji sang that, that recording finished.
36:22 And I promised him there and then, that when I make my first film,
36:26 Mahendra ji, the most powerful, the best song of the film will be yours, of course.
36:30 And you will sing, you will always be my voice.
36:33 So, it was from that film that his association with Manoj Kumar ji started.
36:38 And, yeah. And he...
36:42 And then, of course, Upkar came. Upkar was his first production and direction, Manoj Kumar ji.
36:46 As an actor, he had done several films, but as a director and producer, that was his first film.
36:51 VIP production, that was.
36:54 It became such a big mega hit. Such a big hit that today,
36:58 sometimes they call Meri Deshi Dharati a second anthem of India.
37:02 Indeed. Indeed, that's true.
37:05 In fact, it is sung more than the national anthem sometimes.
37:09 In popular imagination.
37:12 Tell me one thing, Rohan bhai.
37:15 He was friends with Vijay Anand since his college days.
37:19 For some reason, I could be completely wrong,
37:23 but did he sing for S.D. Burman, your father?
37:27 Not much. Not much.
37:29 Why did this happen? Do you know? I am curious.
37:33 He was very fascinated and he loved Burmanda a lot.
37:38 My father used to... In fact, on the stage, when I started singing with him on shows,
37:43 he used to make me sing a lot of Burmanda songs.
37:46 He used to love Burmanda songs.
37:48 In fact, he loved the songs that Ravishabh sang most for S.D. Burman.
37:53 He used to say, "I love that voice, that thing."
37:56 It used to give him a different high.
37:58 So, he used to love all those.
38:00 All the songs that he had sung for him.
38:02 Interesting.
38:04 But by the time my father's career actually took off, if you realize,
38:09 Burmanda's career had already started taking a little dip.
38:13 Yeah, it was epic. Yeah, that's true.
38:15 And those days, these composers were such strong personalities.
38:21 When they fell in love with...
38:23 If their thoughts revolved around Kishore or revolved around Ravishabh,
38:29 Kishore Da and Ravishabh, they would think that way.
38:33 They would call them.
38:34 And it was not that he did not...
38:36 Probably, Blitaji sang less for him and Ashaji sang more.
38:39 It was not that they revered every singer as much.
38:42 But it's just that their thoughts matched that singer's.
38:46 Exactly.
38:47 So, I think they are all incidental things.
38:51 Which, of course, people cook up a lot of stories and make a lot of this.
38:55 But there's nothing to do with that.
38:57 It's just that these people are passionate.
38:59 They were passionate to a different level.
39:03 And they believed in what they composed.
39:05 Just one more thing about your father and then I want to ask you about your singing.
39:10 When you think of your father's career, if I were to wake you up in the middle of the night and say,
39:20 "Rohan bhai, which song of dad's did you remember? Tell me."
39:24 What do you think will come to your mind?
39:27 That's a good question, Meghbhai.
39:31 Yes, yes.
39:32 His encyclopedia was so big, so difficult.
39:36 His index was so big.
39:38 That's why I'm asking.
39:40 It depends on my mood.
39:42 If I had a fight with my wife and slept, I would say, "Let's fight again."
39:48 If I had a thought of something else, I would say, "Is love meant to be made from a stone?"
39:57 But of course, these songs were so beautiful, as you rightly said.
40:02 Sometimes I burst into songs like, "Aaja re mere pyar ke rahi, Raza neharu badi ter se."
40:15 Chitilupt.
40:17 Yeah, from Uche Lo. Right?
40:20 Yes.
40:21 In that movie, Mohammad Rafi had, to my mind, one of his greatest songs, "Jag Dil Hai Divana."
40:28 Sometimes I wish your father had also sung that, because it's a really great song.
40:35 "Jag Dil Hai Divana, Ruch Hai Basle Yaar Ki."
40:39 Anyway, I want to come to your...
40:43 You've been doing a lot of concerts and shows, etc.
40:47 But you did start as an actor.
40:50 Yes.
40:51 Why didn't you persist with that career?
40:55 I started very, very young. I was barely 16-17 when I joined Manoj Kumar as an assistant director in the film, "Kranti."
41:08 That was when I finished my schooling and I was about to do colleging.
41:11 And in that meantime, there was a gap of 6-7 months that children did whatever, wasted time or did something good or whatever.
41:22 And my father, being a very sweet and modest person, but was a very disciplined person, he told me, "I don't want you loitering around. You tell me what you want to do."
41:30 I said, "I would love to assist someone."
41:32 Because I was very fascinated by the making of films.
41:37 And I joined Manoj Kumarji very gracefully. He accepted me as an assistant.
41:41 I did the film "Kranti" as an assistant director with him.
41:45 I became a pet of Dhirith Kumar, Shashi Kapoor, Manoj Kumarji. It was a very big film.
41:50 "Kranti" was one of the biggest mega films made in India.
41:55 And I was privileged to be a part of it.
41:59 And after that, I started doing theatre.
42:02 I met Shafi Ramdar. He was a very, very popular and a very respected theatre director.
42:10 So when I met him and I did my first play with him, it was called "Neela Kamra."
42:17 And the story of my elder sister-in-law and brother-in-law, who played my elder sister-in-law,
42:23 she lives in the United States of America. I hope she sees this show.
42:28 She is Helena Luke.
42:31 Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
42:33 Yeah, she was my co-star.
42:37 And she loved me like a younger brother, of course.
42:39 She was very fond of me.
42:42 I had a very beautiful time with him. Then I did a second play with him, "Adha."
42:47 It was "Neela Kamra." I was to do "Ek Shaf" with him.
42:52 In the meantime, she selected me for my first film called "Faasle."
42:57 Yes.
42:58 Shobhraj Saheb gave me my break as an actor in the film "Faasle," the lead role, of course.
43:04 Yeah, I remember that. Yes.
43:06 And then after that, I did "Love It Isse Ek Se Maandar," "Mera Naseeb," and a couple of films.
43:11 Correct.
43:12 In 1998, this was the mid-80s, I would say, or late 80s, I started my career in 1985.
43:19 But the atmosphere here was not good.
43:23 And then probably, you may call it, that's one way of seeing it, or probably call it destiny or whatever it was.
43:29 But I gradually started shying away from this thing.
43:34 In the meantime, what happened there was that my father used to do a lot of shows.
43:40 Of course, he used to love doing shows. Show business was his passion.
43:45 So, a lot of organizers started saying, "Mr. Mahendra, we know Rohan Singhs, and he's youth of today, and he's popular with the young children.
43:54 So, why don't you call him along with you in the show? So, it'll be like father and son thing, and he can sing the popular dance numbers and whatever he wants to sing.
44:02 And you can do your act, and it'll be lovely for audiences."
44:06 So, we did thousands of shows together, father-son duo, all over the world.
44:11 And my passion for music was born there.
44:17 So, I never missed anything. I enjoyed every phase.
44:20 But you didn't think of doing a playback?
44:24 That was the most unfortunate part.
44:27 All my friends, all the composers of that time, were my friends.
44:33 Right beginning from Adesh. Adesh began his career with my father as a drummer.
44:37 So, he and I were the same age, and we were like friends. Jatin Lalit was my friend.
44:41 Anu Malik was my friend. All the composers of that time were my friends.
44:48 But I never thought that we were so busy with so many shows, that we stopped there.
44:53 We were so obsessed with live audiences that we didn't even pay attention to them.
44:58 You still do it?
45:03 The atmosphere has changed now. The atmosphere of music has changed.
45:07 See, if my father wants to do something, my son, Siddhant, with your blessings, has started.
45:13 I'll talk to him as well. You know, you mentioned Yusuf Saab.
45:20 Your father sang "Mangi thi ek dua jo kabul ho gayi Shakti ve."
45:25 His first relationship with Yusuf Saab was in the film "Gopi."
45:31 He sang Ram Chandra's "Siya Se."
45:35 Kalyanji Bai, Anandji Bai, Yusuf Saab, and Jayinder Kapoor Saab. I remember that.
45:41 I remember "Mangi thi ek dua" because for once, your father's voice worked very well with Yusuf Saab.
45:50 It worked very well in "Gopi" too, but here, it was a perfect match.
45:55 Yeah. And for a lovely composer, RD Burman, for whom he sang very little.
46:01 Shakti. RD Burman, obviously. Great name. One of the true giants of Hindi cinema.
46:09 Just a couple of things from you before we get your son in. I'm very keen to meet him as a young man.
46:16 Tell me about your routine. What kind of work are you engaged in?
46:20 Are you thinking of making any albums now that you've been at it for so long?
46:25 I keep doing my work. Music keeps going on.
46:32 And as I mentioned, with your blessing, Siddhant, I also am giving him whatever little bit that Maa Saraswati has given,
46:40 the support that I can give him as a father.
46:43 I do a lot of shows. I keep working on some new music all the time.
46:47 And I will come out with a different album. I'm working on one.
46:52 "Maa Ba Farid". We keep doing different things.
46:58 When are you planning your album?
47:02 We're recording the first song of it. And it will come out soon.
47:10 We'll share it with you first.
47:13 Wonderful. It's lovely.
47:15 We're working on his side.
47:18 I think life, if you see by and large, a lot of things matter in it besides only your work success.
47:30 I think there are so many aspects to life which my father taught me.
47:34 He said, "At the end of the day, Rohan, you'll never think of which were your hit films.
47:38 You'll never think of which were your hit songs. You'll think of the people who loved you most.
47:42 You'll think of the good deeds that you did. You'll think of the things that mattered to you as a human being."
47:47 So, those are the things that he imbibed in us.
47:51 And of course, even Siddhant was very close to my father.
47:56 I got married very young. So, my son also had an opportunity to be with his dada for a good amount of time.
48:04 And they used to sit down together and chat for hours together.
48:08 So, culture, which is a culture, no one can give it to children except the parents.
48:14 And we are privileged, blessed, besides being a renowned figure, that he was a fantastic human being.
48:22 What he and my mother, my mother was his pillar all throughout with him.
48:27 In all his highs and lows, she stood by him like a pillar all the time. A pillar of strength.
48:34 And he has still written till the very end. We lost dad very early. Of course, he was just 74 when he left us.
48:42 Mom stayed with us for about 10-12 years after that. Then we lost her. Just moving forward, we lost her too.
48:50 But we are blessed that my parents had, besides all our work, all our glamour, all our music, everything,
48:59 that love and affection that people give us, there is a little bit of that religious sanskriti.
49:07 There is a thing of religion, of sanskriti, which I think matters to us a lot.
49:16 Absolutely. This has been wonderful. If Siddhant is around, I would love to talk to him now.
49:23 Sure, sure. I will just invite him. It was lovely talking to you, Mangbhai.
49:28 I found out about your ambitions to become, I mean, you already are a composer.
49:33 Tell me a bit about it, how you started and what kind of music you sing or compose.
49:39 Right. So, actually, I started quite early. I started at the age of 16. I started composing professionally.
49:51 I was lucky to get some good opportunities, which kept me going.
49:56 Some good projects that I could work on and try to put my talent ahead.
50:04 What kind of music do you personally like? I mean, given your age, obviously, it will be far more eclectic than a lot of others.
50:13 Right. It's actually very difficult to answer that question because there's so much good music around and so many different types of music.
50:24 I think also coming from Bombay and from the family that I belong to, I've been exposed to so many different styles of music.
50:34 I somehow enjoy a lot of them. At different times, I enjoy each style.
50:39 It's a bit difficult to answer. From the house, of course, I've heard so much of classical Hindustani music.
50:47 And, you know, from Dada as well as from Dad. And Dad actually also enjoys a lot of the English classics.
50:56 I've heard a lot, especially in Tom Jones because of him.
51:00 Oh, really? That's nice.
51:02 And then when I went to college, I had a lot of friends who would listen to rock and make me listen to rock.
51:06 And I used to enjoy it as well. So, I don't know. I think the variety is...
51:12 It's a big range. It's a big range.
51:14 Yeah, it's a big range.
51:16 I'm curious about your... Is there something that you can share with me in terms of your composition or a song that...
51:23 Or you could maybe send me a clip that I can play at some point when I run the interview.
51:28 Is it an album or is it for a movie? What is it?
51:31 So, I mean, at the moment, I would be most excited to share my last music video, which I released, which is called 'Beparwakh'.
51:40 Oh, wonderful.
51:41 Right. And this was a beautifully written poetry by Ruskin Bond.
51:48 Oh, how nice. That sounds fascinating.
51:52 Yes, and he was kind enough to gift the poetry to me and he asked me to make some music.
51:57 And that's what brought about this single of mine, which is a music video now.
52:03 And I took it forward. It was a very nice poetry, which was 'Slum Children at Play', which basically spoke about the attitude of slum children
52:14 and how sometimes we, despite having more, you know, the so-called luxuries of life, we don't live as much as they live life.
52:22 So, it's more about learning from them.
52:24 So, I took that forward and I recorded in EM Studios, Le Mans Studio. I recorded with the EM Orchestra there, the Sunshine Orchestra.
52:36 How wonderful.
52:37 Right.
52:38 This is the first time a poem of mine has been put to music. Thank you, sir.
52:45 [Music]
52:57 Imps of mischief, barefoot in the dust.
53:02 You know, let me ask you this. As a young musician and a composer, if you were to cast your grandfather to sing a song for you,
53:12 what kind of song would you want him to sing, given his extraordinary range?
53:18 That's so true. Because, you know, as you said, he has such an extraordinary range.
53:25 He was so known for his patriotic songs, maybe because it's something difficult for a lot of singers to achieve that kind of a voice.
53:36 But at the same time, I think personally, I was, I'm always a huge fan of his soft voice.
53:43 So, I love, you know, my, my, one of my favorites of his is "Aap aaye to khayal de liye naashad aaya".
53:50 It's one of Hindi cinema's greatest songs in my book.
53:54 Absolutely. Agreed. So, I love the voice that he's brought forward in that.
53:59 So, you would want something like that for him?
54:02 I'm guessing that would be one of them. I think I would do a lot of things.
54:07 Tell me about, do you have ambitions to be a full time composer for Hindi cinema or you're already doing it?
54:15 So, I actually studied music composition in Trinity. I did my master's in music composition from Trinity College in London.
54:25 Oh, I see.
54:26 Right. And I've also, most of my younger years, I've studied Hindustani classical in India.
54:35 So, with all of that, I have somehow got a lot of opportunities from, you know, overseas, from outside India that I've been exploring over the years.
54:46 Right. So, I mean, I've done a couple of shows as well. There was a show called Miss Marvel, which you'll probably hear of.
54:55 Yeah, sure. Sure.
54:56 So, that had some of my music featured there.
54:59 Oh, I didn't know that. Congratulations. That's a great platform for you.
55:04 Right. So, that was, that's why I've been lucky with some good opportunities along the way.
55:09 But at the same time, I would love to work even for, you know, projects in India.
55:14 I feel like the, you know, the music, everything in India is changing now with OTT coming in.
55:23 And, you know, the entire, the entire way of people looking at art is changing.
55:30 The mainstream music is also changing. So, I'm quite interested in that change.
55:35 I'd love to work for you.
55:37 Yeah, not true. You know, it strikes me there is a fascinating biopic waiting to be made on your grandfather.
55:44 It could be such a wonderful musical.
55:47 Absolutely.
55:49 There are enough hooks in his career. Look at it this way.
55:53 He came of age when giants like from Mannade to Kishore Kumar to Mahmud Rafi to Latav Mangeshkar to Talat Mahmud,
56:03 they were already well-known names because he was younger to all of them.
56:07 And yet, he left such a remarkable stamp on the Hindi cinema music.
56:13 Absolutely.
56:15 If I had the means, I would make a biopic of that kind. Kishore Kumar, somebody is already making, for instance.
56:21 I've heard about that. Yes.
56:23 Maybe you should, the two of you, you and your dad should consider that.
56:27 Someday, yes.
56:29 What we'll do is, if you are in the process of doing another album or a song or some interesting project,
56:41 do let me know. We'll do a little extra segment for that.
56:45 But this was wonderful. I'm glad I was introduced to you and I would love to hear more.
56:50 In fact, I would just like to mention offhand that there is another album of mine releasing.
56:57 Actually, it's releasing tomorrow.
56:59 Oh, tell me, tell me, tell me about that. Sure.
57:02 What's the name?
57:04 It's called Gateway to India.
57:06 OK.
57:07 This is a collaboration, a very, very special collaboration.
57:11 This is a collaboration with a gentleman, a composer from London who's called John Ashton Thomas.
57:18 He was a legendary composer.
57:22 He's worked in some of the greatest films of Hollywood.
57:26 And so we worked on this collaboration.
57:30 We worked, you know, we worked through COVID on these tracks.
57:34 I see.
57:35 And I mean, he was back in London.
57:37 I was here and we worked on Video Call.
57:39 And unfortunately, in the middle of our collaboration, I got the news that he left us.
57:49 So, yeah.
57:51 So but then, you know, because the music company and myself as well, we also attached to him that we decided to somehow get everything together and release this as a tribute to him.
58:04 Oh, that's terrific. So congratulations. When it is out, send me a link.
58:09 I would love to play it.
58:11 Surely, surely I'll share that with you.
58:13 [BLANK_AUDIO]