Conn Iggulden: "We have got the wrong idea about Nero"
Conn Iggulden is a man on a mission. A revisionist mission. His point is that we have got the wrong idea about Nero.
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00:00 Good afternoon, my name is Phil Hewitt, Group Arts Editor at Sussex Newspapers, and it's
00:06 lovely to say that Con Agaldon is coming our way for the Festival of Chichester, appearing
00:11 at St Peter and St Mary Church, Fishbourne, on June 16th, isn't it? And you are going
00:20 to be talking about the new book Nero. Now, you are writing around here, you've sensed
00:26 injustice and you're doing something about it. It seems Nero wasn't the disaster, the
00:30 monster that lots of people think. I think so. I've been quite open about the
00:38 fact that having looked at it, I think he was ruined, deliberately rolled into Caligula
00:45 and Tiberius by the people who came later, particularly the Roman writer Suetonius, who
00:51 was writing almost a century later, and he was writing for later emperors who had a good
00:55 reason for putting Nero down. It made them look more secure in their position. People
01:01 like Hadrian, for example, had no real family right to inherit what up to Nero had been
01:07 an inheritable throne. So the fact that they could ruin his reputation meant that they
01:12 were more secure. And that was such a shock to those of us
01:15 brought up by Claudius, thinking of Christopher Biggins in the role and how awful he was.
01:21 But what were his good points then? Well, I mean, I'm not saying he was a saint.
01:28 He was brought up by a mother who was broken by fate and circumstance and having a brother
01:35 called Caligula. And she was a difficult, spiky, aggressive, ruthless woman who attempted
01:41 to put her son at 16 on the throne to rule and was always destined to fail in doing that.
01:48 So I'm not suggesting for a moment that he was completely... Look, when I was 16, if
01:52 someone had made me king of the world with no rules or curves on my behavior whatsoever,
01:58 it would have gone horribly wrong. I have a 16-year-old son at the moment and bless
02:02 him, I think the same is probably true for him. That is probably true. However, Nero
02:09 was not warlike or a warmonger. He was a young man trying very hard to be a decent, noble
02:15 woman. But all of his interests were not considered decent or noble at the time. Chariot racing,
02:22 for example, was considered too low class. He was good at chariot racing. His father
02:26 had raced chariots and Nero won in the Olympics in Greece, racing a team of 10.
02:32 So basically, he was in the wrong job.
02:35 Yes. I mean, in many ways, he was a young man who simply wanted to act and to sing and
02:43 to recite poetry and race chariots and watch gladiators and live a life of extreme luxury,
02:50 of course. But he wasn't in any way an evil man. And it's interesting, when you look at
02:56 the criticisms of him, they tend to be sexual shenanigans that are very obviously created
03:04 to make him seem weak. It's the sort of thing you might get in a modern trial where they
03:11 suggest someone is unmanly or something along these lines. They had peculiar ideas about
03:16 all sorts of sexual bedroom activities and suicide and everything else. It was a different
03:20 society. And we mustn't judge it too closely, I think, by our modern decisions.
03:24 Absolutely. And what's really interesting, you say, absolutely, this is revisionist history.
03:31 You are seeking to change minds.
03:33 It is. And that's usually, let's be honest, if someone says, "Oh, it's a revisionist piece,"
03:39 it's seen as a bad thing. But I am trying to write revisionist history. I'm saying Nero
03:43 has had a bad press. I don't think he deserved it. And here is the reason why. You can say
03:48 psychologically his mother did her best with him, but was always destined to fail on her
03:53 own behalf and on his behalf. And that makes his story a tragedy. It makes her story a
03:58 tragedy and his. He ruled from the age of 16 to the age of 30. And he never really had
04:04 a chance. And that is a story worth telling. That's the story I've done my best to tell.
04:08 And it's a story that's got under your skin to the extent that you've written all of the
04:12 trilogy already.
04:13 Yes, I have. That's very unusual for me. I wrote this in an absolute delight because
04:19 I had never come across material this good. I mean, everything hangs together. His wife
04:24 being the sister of Caligula, marrying, so she was the sister of one emperor, wife of
04:29 a second and mother to a third, believing that a mother could rule in Rome herself through
04:35 a 16 year old son and seeing that fail. Some of the great spectacles that he put on, the
04:41 ridiculous money that he wasted. I mean, he effectively bankrupted the Roman state with
04:46 generosity. He would give away 10 million sesterces, silver coins in a single morning.
04:51 He as a prize to a gladiator or to a friend. He was an extraordinary, wasteful, extravagant,
04:59 lavish fool, if you like, but not an evil man, I believe.
05:03 So when do we get parts two and three?
05:05 Well, that's an interesting question. I mean, the whole publishing industry is geared up
05:09 with the exception of Patterson, James Patterson, for one book a year from every author. So
05:13 I said to the publishers, look, I've got three in hand. I've written three books. Can we
05:19 get them out faster? And they, after quite a bit of persuasion, because it is unusual,
05:24 they said, we'll do one this year, 2024, and then two next year. Because they do have to
05:29 book these slots ahead to put them out. So yes, it looks like if you'd like the first
05:34 one, you will see the second two faster than the other one.
05:37 That of course means that you're going to have to come back to the Festival of Chichester
05:40 next year to finish the story, then, aren't you?
05:42 I'd be delighted. As I mentioned before, my father grew up in Felfham. It's a part of
05:47 the world I'm very happy with. And my brother is currently negotiating with the Bishop of
05:51 Chichester to get himself into a graveyard in Felfham. So it's the kind of dark, dark
05:58 hobby that we indulge.
06:00 Fabulous. We're really lovely to speak to you. Great that you're coming to the Festival
06:05 of Chichester. And thanks very much for your time.
06:08 Looking forward to it. Thank you.
06:09 Thank you.