Ceej Tantengco-Malolos on the progress and pain in women’s sports | The Howie Severino Podcast
Howie Severino talks to Ceej Tantengco-Malolos, a leading advocate for female athletes and host of the ground-breaking podcast, “Go Hard Girls.”
Ceej describes the impact of Olympic gold medalist Hidlyn Diaz and US basketball star Caitlin Clark, while bemoaning the lack of professional opportunities for women to play in the Philippines.
Braving the online backlash, she has famously called out the objectification of women athletes, misogyny in sports, and violence against women.
She also talks about working in the lion’s den of the PBA, a league she is influencing in her job as a social media producer.
Ceej describes the impact of Olympic gold medalist Hidlyn Diaz and US basketball star Caitlin Clark, while bemoaning the lack of professional opportunities for women to play in the Philippines.
Braving the online backlash, she has famously called out the objectification of women athletes, misogyny in sports, and violence against women.
She also talks about working in the lion’s den of the PBA, a league she is influencing in her job as a social media producer.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Magandang Araw, Podmates! How is everyone again?
00:02Let me remind you that a long attention span is very important.
00:07Our guest today is Siege Tantenko Malolos,
00:10who has been a compelling and influential voice advocating women athletes
00:16and fairness in sports, among other hats.
00:19She's a children's book author, a social media producer for the PBA team, Miralco Bolts.
00:24She does a history podcast, in addition to her groundbreaking Go Hard Girls podcast.
00:30Her podcast is about women athletes.
00:32She's also a former colleague at GMA Network some years back,
00:37and she's now a producer and manager leader at Puma Podcast, a leading podcasting company.
00:43Magandang Araw sa'yo, Siege! Great seeing and talking to you again.
00:46Congratulations on all your achievements.
00:48Oh, thank you so much. It's so nice to be here.
00:51You're my first boss, and every time I think of those years back in 2012,
00:57I don't know, it makes me so happy whenever I think of that time.
01:01Well, thank you. You've come a long way.
01:03I'm not going to take any credit for your development and where you've gone,
01:07but it's been really pleasing for me to be following your career
01:12and listen to you speak about your causes.
01:16But you have various hats, Siege. I just mentioned some of them,
01:19but we'll stick today to sports and women in sports.
01:25You do this podcast, Go Hard Girls, and you also do a lot of public speaking.
01:30You speak out. You've also written for websites about sports, about women athletes.
01:38There's always both a half-full as well as a half-empty point of view of things.
01:46The half-full point of view about women's sports now is that they're having a moment.
01:54Women's sports are having a moment.
01:56In particular, women's basketball in the U.S. has become a phenomenon, as we know.
02:05Caitlin Clark, almost by herself, has elevated the game there and sold out arenas.
02:13She's a women's basketball player in the U.S.
02:17Here in the Philippines, our first Olympic gold medalist was a woman.
02:21See, Heidlin Diaz.
02:23And then last year, the women's football team got the whole country behind them.
02:29They gave us a lot of excitement at the World Cup.
02:32Every day, something about women's volleyball here in the Philippines crosses my Facebook feed.
02:38Sometimes you forget that there's men's volleyball.
02:40Do you feel that women's sports are having a moment since you follow it much more closely than most of us?
02:48What's your half-full point of view on it?
02:52There's been so much progress in the past few years.
02:55Especially when I compare what the industry was like when I first started out.
03:00I've been in journalism since 2012.
03:03I moved into sports in 2015.
03:06Wow, almost 10 years, right?
03:08Since then, there's been a lot of change.
03:10And I'm so proud of how much better it's gotten for women.
03:15But every day, I'm also reminded that there are still huge gaps that we can build on and improve on.
03:23Okay, so the progress first.
03:26Of course, there's a lot to talk about in terms of the challenges and gaps that remain.
03:30But what do you mean by progress?
03:33First is the amount of representation.
03:38Less than 10 years ago, UAAP women's basketball wasn't broadcast every single game.
03:47They would only broadcast it during the finals.
03:50And because the NU Lady Bulldogs were on this winning streak, they won over 100 straight games.
03:56That meant they would sweep the finals.
03:58So you would only actually see two games out of the entire season televised.
04:03And even then, you would only see two teams.
04:04And it's not a good representation because you just watch the team lose to NU.
04:10And so you have no idea how good this team actually is.
04:14Because there had to be so many teams to get there, right?
04:17And you couldn't develop a sense of investment, right?
04:20And I remember back then, I was pushing as a young sports reporter.
04:26I wanted to cover more women's sports.
04:28And so when I was given a column, I said, my purpose here is to cover underrated sports.
04:35So I would do karate and softball and all of that.
04:38And then my bosses would tell me, why are you doing that?
04:42No one cares.
04:44And they would get mad at me.
04:46And then they would say, oh, why are you doing that?
04:48If you cover volleyball, you would get so many more hits.
04:51And so the imagination of what women's sports could be was so limited.
04:59It was limited to, well, volleyball is already popular.
05:02So that's the sport for women.
05:04In the same way that basketball is popular, that's the sport for men.
05:08And it reflects something about Filipino culture, right?
05:11Because that attitude starts young.
05:14That attitude starts at home and at school and in the barangay.
05:18Basketball is for boys.
05:20Volleyball is for girls.
05:22Kapag nagpaliga si counselor, it's always men's basketball and women's volleyball.
05:26And so that's ingrained, right?
05:29And it carries over into our broadcast.
05:34It carries over into choices as well for representation and endorsements.
05:41So I remember back then, a common challenge I would hear from female athletes is that
05:46if you're not a volleyball player, it was so hard for you to get an endorsement or a sponsorship
05:52because brands would ask, why don't you look like volleyball players?
05:56So our national softball team, na actually 10 straight SEA Games gold medals sila,
06:01nahing kirapan silang kumuha ng sponsor kasi sasabihin eh malaki yung legs nyo.
06:05And that's what's required for this sport, diba?
06:08But it makes it so challenging because there's this imposition of gender norms and gender stereotypes.
06:15Of what a female athlete should be.
06:17Right now, fast forward, you know, Heidelin has billboards.
06:23Heidelin has a commercial, right?
06:25The women jujitsu athletes who are excelling and amazing.
06:32These are not, you know, long, svelte volleyball players, right?
06:37These are bundles of strong muscle.
06:41And, you know, just Meggie Ochoa, if you've ever met her, she's five foot flat.
06:48And she is so pitit, but every bit of her is muscle.
06:53And so I'm seeing more diversity in the body types.
06:56And that's something to be celebrated.
06:59That was very exciting.
07:01There's a lot of firsts that we're celebrating now.
07:04Okay. Well, speaking of women's basketball,
07:06I remember this major piece that you did on the National University Lady Bulldogs.
07:14You mentioned them a little while ago.
07:16At that time, they had something like a 96-game winning streak.
07:21They were a phenomenon in women's sports, in women's basketball.
07:26But the flip side of it, you said, was they weren't really being watched.
07:32You said they were hardly televised, despite how good they were, etc.
07:37So has it changed in the Philippines in terms of women's basketball since then?
07:41That was five years ago.
07:43Of course, we had a pandemic.
07:45So for a couple of years, there wasn't really much of an audience anywhere.
07:50But has it changed?
07:52Oh, definitely. I think when we did the piece,
07:54the NU Lady Bulldogs were on five straight years.
07:57And then they were able to extend that to seven straight years.
08:01108 games.
08:03So the wonderful thing about outliers,
08:05whether it's Kaitlyn Clark or Sabrina Inescu,
08:09or the NU Lady Bulldogs,
08:11is when you do something so unique and so undeniably amazing
08:16that people can't look away,
08:18it forced people to look at women's basketball.
08:21Because it reached a point where it was kind of outrageous
08:24that these girls weren't getting televised.
08:26I think I'm just one of many who really demanded,
08:28why isn't this on air?
08:30Why is Jack Animam not a household name?
08:33How come Rhea Nabalan went 80 straight wins,
08:39undefeated in her entire college career,
08:41and people don't know her?
08:43She has to wear a t-shirt that says,
08:45Rhea Nabalan, 80 straight games, for people to recognize her.
08:48It reached that point.
08:51There was this groundswell of the fans and the advocates.
08:55Networks were basically crushed.
08:59I think the direction didn't come top down.
09:02It came from ground up,
09:04forcing traditional structures to rethink the way they were doing things.
09:10One of the athletes we recently featured in Go Hard Girls,
09:16her name is Tantoy Ferrer,
09:18and her story was shared by our guest correspondent, Melissa Lusa.
09:21Tantoy is the finals MVP.
09:24What's amazing is she came from an ACL injury.
09:28In her comeback year, finals MVP,
09:31and they won.
09:33It was like a movie.
09:35All of that was televised.
09:37I remember when we did that story,
09:39so GMA News Online,
09:41it was a multimedia cover story in partnership with Go Hard Girls.
09:44GMA greenlit a photo shoot and a video shoot
09:49for the annual Lady Bulldogs at the time.
09:51These were champions multiple times over,
09:55but I couldn't find good photos of them.
09:57Once a year, they exchange profile photos
10:00when they have a new championship and a group shot.
10:03When GMA commissioned this beautiful black and white portrait shoot for them,
10:09some of the girls cried and said,
10:12I've never had a photo like this.
10:14No one has ever taken my picture this way.
10:17They were crying.
10:20They were saying,
10:22thank you, I have a frame for our house.
10:24I have a memory of this year.
10:26I was so happy in that moment,
10:29but I also couldn't help but think,
10:31oh my God, the first four years prior to this,
10:33they had a nice picture from this, right?
10:41It's different now.
10:43Now people know what these girls look like.
10:45Now, I hope the network sees that
10:48the ticket sales show the demand
10:52and the interest shows the demand.
10:55I hope we keep investing and increasing the investment.
10:58Speaking of investing,
11:00part of your report was on how this winning streak started.
11:06It started with hiring good coaches
11:11who did a lot of recruiting.
11:13They traveled to recruit really good players.
11:15That starts with a belief on the part of,
11:21I guess, the owners of national universities.
11:24In other words, they valued.
11:27It started with someone valuing women's sports,
11:32even if it probably wasn't going to make money,
11:36or at least at the start.
11:38As you've mentioned,
11:40you had a five-year winning streak
11:42and there were still no crowds,
11:43but they persisted in investing.
11:49It's almost like a mission on the part of,
11:52it couldn't have been a business decision by itself.
11:55It had to start there.
11:57Someone had to believe in women's sports,
11:59even if it wasn't going to bring in a lot of crowds and revenue.
12:03Immediately. It's an investment, not a transaction.
12:06The problem is when some owners treat it like a transaction.
12:11Okay, I'll give you this money.
12:13In two years, you need to be famous.
12:15In two years, you need to be big time.
12:18In two years, you need to have a lot of fans.
12:20You need to win.
12:22That's just not how championship teams are built.
12:24It's built over many years.
12:26For women's sports,
12:30the people that we're looking for
12:32and the people who can make a difference
12:34are people who are champions.
12:36They might be one person in an organization,
12:38but that's the one person who believes
12:39and understands that this is a long-term play.
12:44For example, Eurotex.
12:46The person there is Peachy Medina,
12:48Ms. Peachy's amazing advocate for women's sports.
12:52Then you see all of these 3x3 weekend tournaments for women.
12:56Eurotex isn't just fielding one, but two teams.
12:59They're always so good.
13:02They're even sending teams to international competitions.
13:05It takes people like that
13:08who are going to say,
13:11this is worth investing in.
13:14I'm going to take my time
13:16and I'm going to build this properly.
13:18Those are the people who actually get to see proper results.
13:21Speaking of university sports,
13:25you went to Ateneo.
13:27I'm also an alumnus.
13:29I got a letter some time back
13:31from the Ateneo president
13:33announcing that from here on,
13:36the women's athletic teams, varsity teams,
13:40are also going to be called the Ateneo Blue Eagles.
13:43Yes.
13:45It's surprising.
13:47Why did they have to make this move?
13:49Isn't it going to confuse people
13:51when you mention just Ateneo Blue Eagles?
13:53You're not going to know which gender.
13:55Does it matter?
13:57What are your thoughts on that?
13:59Did you agree?
14:01Should others follow?
14:03We just talked about the lady bulldogs.
14:05Should they just be called the NU Bulldogs?
14:07Yes.
14:09They should be.
14:11Whenever you designate the men as the bulldogs or eagles
14:16and then the women become lady eagles
14:20or like UST,
14:22growling tigers, growling tigresses.
14:24When you make men,
14:26it communicates that men are the standard
14:27and then women are the variation from the standard,
14:32which means they're actually not on equal footing.
14:35The first national team to implement this,
14:38even before Ateneo,
14:40the first national team was our rugby.
14:43It used to be the Philippine Volcanoes
14:45and then our women's team was Lady Volcanoes.
14:47They had their very first female federation president
14:52and her name was Ada Milby.
14:54She's the sister of the artista Sam Milby.
14:57She's this incredible athlete
14:59and she was the first woman to hold this position.
15:02One of the first moves she did was to drop the lady
15:05and now it's equal.
15:07The same is actually true,
15:09supposedly,
15:11for our Gilas Pilipinas team.
15:13They're now supposed to be called Gilas Pilipinas men
15:17and Gilas Pilipinas women.
15:19However, in implementation,
15:21when you look at it in the way it's still being reported,
15:24media outlets still use Gilas to refer to the men
15:28and Gilas women for the women.
15:30The implementation is not yet there,
15:33but I hope we can keep moving towards
15:36just making it gender-neutral
15:38because it's so easy to know
15:40if it's a woman or a man playing.
15:44One of the issues that you've lamented in the past
15:47was after their college careers,
15:50these great women basketball players
15:54don't have anywhere to go in the Philippines.
15:57If they're going to have a career after college,
16:00they have to go overseas
16:02or join the military.
16:04In fact, you've mentioned that.
16:06And then play for military teams.
16:08Is that still the case?
16:10If they want to continue playing basketball after college,
16:13the options are still military
16:15or to join week-end TXC tournaments.
16:17You can join.
16:18There are cash prizes there.
16:20But for a full-on professional 5-on-5 league,
16:23nothing yet.
16:25During the pandemic, one was launched
16:27and they called it the WNBL.
16:29But I'm not going to mince words.
16:33It was run so poorly
16:35that the women's basketball community of advocates
16:40didn't embrace it.
16:42So a lot of women actually didn't sign up
16:44because they were so desperate for a place to play
16:46and they were promised that
16:48there would be a pro league for women.
16:50But then, to be honest,
16:52salaries were delayed.
16:54There were issues in the first round of the draft.
16:58There were protected picks.
17:01These were players who didn't even pass
17:03the UAAP tryouts.
17:05But they were chosen in the first round
17:07because they were bikini models.
17:10And so it wasn't embraced by the community.
17:14The thing that's embraced currently
17:16by the women's basketball community
17:18is these 3x3 tournaments.
17:20So Manila Hustle is a great one.
17:22They play in malls
17:24and then they attract really big crowds.
17:26Titan, the sports brand,
17:28homegrown,
17:30they organize a lot of women's tournaments as well.
17:32They actually have a very strong women's division
17:35that is run by a woman.
17:37So it's great.
17:39When women are in charge,
17:41it seems like we get the stuff done.
17:43But in terms of the ceiling,
17:45what's exciting right now
17:46is that the creme de la creme
17:50of our women's basketball players
17:52are going international
17:54in a way that is better than before.
17:57So back in 2013,
17:59you had athletes like Alyana Lim
18:01who was a UAAP MVP
18:04but was sadly overlooked
18:06at the peak of her UAAP career
18:08because Alyana is a masculine-presenting athlete.
18:13And at the time,
18:14there were policies by many teams
18:16that you have to wear makeup
18:18or the leagues have to wear makeup
18:20for you to be marketable.
18:22And it was so hard for Alyana.
18:24She never got her due here in the Philippines.
18:26But after graduation,
18:28she got an opportunity to play
18:30as an import across Asia.
18:32And she was the first Filipino athlete to do so.
18:34So she opened so many doors
18:36for other Filipino athletes.
18:38But it's only in recent years
18:40that people are recognizing
18:42this achievement of hers.
18:44So she really opened up.
18:46But Alyana said in that episode
18:48when she went abroad,
18:50she had to use her own savings
18:52in her bank account
18:54to buy her ticket.
18:56And her socks had holes in them.
18:58And her shoes were old.
19:00And she was hoping
19:02when she got to the foreign country,
19:04they would just give her new gear,
19:06which they did.
19:08That is no longer the condition
19:10in which our Filipino athletes
19:12are flying out.
19:14Jack was NU
19:16and Jazz was from Ateneo.
19:19They're now playing in Australia.
19:21And they're professionally represented
19:23by proper agents.
19:25They're taken care of.
19:27In the same way that you would expect
19:29someone like Soto
19:31to be taken care of
19:33when they're going abroad.
19:35So it's exciting
19:37that this door is now open.
19:39And I think for in particular,
19:41the group of Titan,
19:42we know them as a sports brand,
19:44but they also have a management group.
19:46So they manage athletes.
19:48And one amazing thing
19:50is how they've managed
19:52their female athletes.
19:54So their athlete is Jazz Foson.
19:56And so they sent Jazz Foson abroad
19:58to take care of her.
20:00And they also handle other members
20:02of the Gilas National Team.
20:04So I'm just curious
20:06because there's been quite a bit
20:08of investment in the collegiate ranks.
20:10You hire professional coaches.
20:12I mean,
20:14what's preventing the establishment
20:16of a bona fide
20:18women's professional league?
20:20Why can't there be
20:22a counterpart of the PBA?
20:24I mean, for example, NU.
20:26You wrote about NU investing
20:28all of this money, prestige, etc.
20:30in setting up a basketball program.
20:33I mean,
20:35why not do that professionally?
20:37It's very expensive
20:39to run a league.
20:40In the PBA,
20:42you can imagine
20:44the monthly payroll of one team
20:46is millions and millions of pesos.
20:51And the way that it is working
20:54in the PBA,
20:56unlike in the NBA
20:58where you have these really rich owners
21:00and like, I'm from LA,
21:02so this is my team.
21:04In the PBA, you have corporate backing.
21:06So there's the San Miguel group,
21:08there's the MVP group,
21:10there's companies like Phoenix,
21:12Rain or Shine,
21:14and then they have their teams.
21:16These are teams that have been
21:18investing in men's basketball
21:20for years and years and years.
21:22And that is their history.
21:24That is their heritage.
21:26And I don't think that women's basketball
21:28is necessarily a priority for them.
21:30The closest they've gotten
21:32is that they've had
21:34women's 3x3 leagues
21:36held within the PBA,
21:38men's PBA season.
21:40And they played the women's 3x3
21:43during the halftime of men's games.
21:46And this was a very controversial time.
21:49This was 2017, I believe.
21:51And the tagline at the time
21:53was baller hotties.
21:55And the athletes were asked
21:57to dress up in short shorts.
21:59And Aliana walked out
22:01and she threatened,
22:03I'm not going to play
22:05if you're going to make me wear short shorts.
22:07So they let her wear jogging pants.
22:08Recently, they finally had
22:10the second iteration of it.
22:12And it was better.
22:14But you can see, right?
22:16It's a very long way off.
22:18You can imagine these teams
22:20are comfortable spending millions
22:22and millions of pesos on men's salaries
22:24and all the accoutrements
22:26that come with it.
22:27But with women's teams,
22:29it's not a priority, really.
22:32Well, you mentioned the outfits, no?
22:34And you've been touching on
22:36kind of the sexualization
22:38of women athletes.
22:40Has that changed?
22:42In previous interviews you've had,
22:44you talked about this also
22:46in your interview with Carl Javier as well,
22:49when you were starting out.
22:51There was a lot of misogyny.
22:53There was a lot of focus on women's bodies.
22:56There was more interest
22:58in women athletes' opinions, etc.
23:01And even women courtside reporters
23:04also felt this kind of sexualization
23:08of women's bodies.
23:10Are we seeing progress
23:12in changing all of that?
23:14I'm going to give you
23:16a glass-half-full glass-half-empty thing.
23:18So glass-half-full,
23:20you're not seeing it as overtly anymore.
23:23So you no longer have articles
23:25labeled fall caps,
23:27LOOK, FALL ON,
23:29and then name of athlete,
23:31BIKINI GALLERY.
23:33Sports websites are no longer
23:35publishing that.
23:36When I was a courtside reporter,
23:38FHM had an annual roundup
23:40of the courtside reporters,
23:42and they found our swimsuit pictures.
23:44None of us provided it.
23:46They would look through our vacation photos,
23:48find the swimsuit photos,
23:50and embed them there,
23:52school by school.
23:54That was the climate back then.
23:56We had editors who would
23:58greenlight articles saying,
24:00guess the volleyball just by
24:02looking at her body.
24:04We don't have that.
24:06This is as recent as
24:08five years ago.
24:10So it's not as overt.
24:12And I think this is because the fans
24:14are becoming more sophisticated
24:16and more educated,
24:18and they're understanding the needs
24:20of the female athletes who they support.
24:22And so they're actually pushing back
24:24against the sexualization
24:26on behalf of the female athletes
24:28who they support, which is wonderful.
24:30So overtly, we're not seeing it as much.
24:32But I will say within the industry,
24:34it remains to be a very big problem.
24:36I'm not going to name names,
24:38but I will say that
24:40when I hold workshops
24:42for young female reporters,
24:44at some point,
24:46we start off talking about hard work.
24:49But then we are going to reach a point
24:51in the discussion when they start crying
24:53and say, at the hard work, it's not enough.
24:55Because our bosses are telling us,
24:57when I hit 25, I will expire.
25:00And that's something that hasn't changed,
25:02because that was also
25:04what was told to me
25:06by a young reporter.
25:08And that's still something.
25:10It's an industry that doesn't necessarily
25:12nurture women's talent.
25:14Because what happens is
25:16you hire young women after a few years,
25:18the young women have nowhere to go,
25:20and then they just hire another batch
25:22of young women.
25:24And very few women are able
25:26to find a place in the industry
25:29because training is not provided.
25:32The ladder is usually,
25:34let's say you're a collegiate courtside reporter
25:36so the next step is to be
25:38a courtside reporter at the MPBL.
25:40And then if you can do it there,
25:42maybe you can try for the PBA.
25:44But you don't actually see women
25:46being elevated to be anchors
25:48or analysts in basketball.
25:51In volleyball, you can.
25:53But that's because
25:55volleyball fits the gender stereotype
25:57of pambabaean.
25:59So, it's still there.
26:02And there is still,
26:04you can tell,
26:06there is still a lot of pressure
26:08on women sports reporters
26:10to look a certain way.
26:12It might not be as sexy
26:14as before,
26:16but there is still an imposition
26:18on the looks of a woman
26:20that you will not see in men.
26:22Men are allowed to grow old.
26:24Women are not allowed
26:26to grow old
26:28in the industry.
26:30You started a hashtag,
26:32cover the athlete.
26:34Oh yeah.
26:35Tell me a bit about that.
26:37What was that a reaction to
26:39and what was that experience like?
26:41So, that started,
26:43I was,
26:45how old was I?
26:47I was 23 years old.
26:49And I had just become
26:51a courtside reporter.
26:53I was covering men's basketball.
26:55And then after one season
26:57of men's basketball,
26:59I had been assigned
27:00to women's volleyball.
27:02And so, because these aren't,
27:03I didn't grow up with these schools,
27:05I needed to research.
27:07And I found it was so much easier
27:09for me to research men
27:11because there was more coverage
27:13on game recaps, their performance.
27:15I could understand
27:17who they were and what made them good.
27:19But when I was looking for
27:21women's articles at the time,
27:23so this was 2015, 2016,
27:25I realized,
27:27why are there so many listicles
27:29of who is pretty
27:31and who is a reporter's crush
27:33and what are their options?
27:35Why in a game recap,
27:37do they need to say
27:39the comely Rachel Dakis
27:41and the stunning Gretchen Ho?
27:43Why are game recaps like that?
27:45And so,
27:47you know me, right?
27:49I started off
27:51in your newsroom
27:53believing that
27:55the world was progressive
27:57because I had wonderful female bosses, right?
27:59You remember Pia and Candice,
28:01so Pia Faustina and Candice Montenegro,
28:03and I felt like,
28:05yes, women have it,
28:07women empowerment.
28:09And I go into the sports world
28:11and I realized, wow,
28:13it's a different decade here.
28:15So, I time traveled.
28:17So, it hit so hard
28:19because I realized
28:21there is this whole other side
28:24that we're overlooking this
28:27in our pursuit of progress.
28:29Sports is falling behind.
28:31And so,
28:33as a nerd,
28:35a debate nerd,
28:37which is my background,
28:39I decided to write an investigative article
28:41for the website
28:43that I was writing for at the time.
28:45And I interviewed
28:47female athletes
28:49who fit the mold
28:51of what conventional beauty was.
28:53I also interviewed athletes
28:55who didn't fit the mold.
28:57And I had my good friend,
28:59Charmy Lee Singh,
29:01who does data and stats.
29:03She does data analysis
29:05analyzing a selection of articles
29:07about men and women
29:09from different websites.
29:10And what we found was that
29:12men are talked about 85% of the time
29:14in terms of their skills.
29:16For women, it's 52%.
29:18And men are talked about
29:20in terms of their looks, only 8%.
29:22While for women, it's 32%.
29:24So, this was back in 2016.
29:26And so, I came out with this article
29:28and I thought
29:30I wasn't really saying anything
29:31controversial.
29:33I thought it was just simple.
29:35Cover the athlete, cover the woman.
29:37And I didn't realize
29:39how controversial that was going to be.
29:41I knew there would be some backlash
29:43because, duh,
29:45the establishment.
29:47But I had no idea
29:49how intense it would be.
29:51I had no idea that
29:53established male sports editors
29:55would be tweeting at me
29:57like, who do you think you are?
29:58You eat a lot of rice.
30:00Who do you think you are?
30:02You haven't proven anything.
30:04I've been doing this for 20 years.
30:06Who do you think you are?
30:08You're just a little girl.
30:10That's how they were talking to me.
30:12So, wait, excuse me.
30:14People were defending
30:16a sexist attitude?
30:18Yes.
30:19Basically, you're just saying
30:21respect women athletes, right?
30:23Yes, I know.
30:25I know.
30:26But then he wrote a rebuttal
30:28and published it on his own blog.
30:30And it was called
30:32No, we will not stop talking about
30:34women athletes' looks.
30:36And that actually made my life so hard
30:39because at the time,
30:41I was a sports reporter.
30:43I was a courtside reporter.
30:45It made the press room hostile.
30:47I couldn't go into the press room
30:49without feeling like there were
30:51all of these eyes on me.
30:53And even not in the press room,
30:54but just in the production room
30:56going to work,
30:58suddenly I was seen as a troublemaker,
31:00as someone who stirred the pot,
31:02who rocked the boat.
31:04And then I would have my superiors,
31:06even people I consider
31:08to be my mentors,
31:10telling me,
31:11stop being a troublemaker.
31:13Stop rocking the boat.
31:15This is how it's going to be.
31:17It will change,
31:19maybe next generation,
31:21but not yours.
31:23And hearing that,
31:25it made me so angry
31:28because it strengthened for me.
31:30Ah, okay,
31:32so this confirms everything.
31:34This really is systemic.
31:36If even you,
31:38the progressives that I thought you were,
31:40are going to say this to me,
31:42then this runs deeper than I thought.
31:44Then all the more I have to do this.
31:46And so that's where it started.
31:48Cover the athlete.
31:50A lot of female athletes
31:52including volleyball players,
31:54basketball players.
31:57And I had so many women athletes
31:59reach out to me.
32:01And so that's when I saw the gap.
32:03Now what women want
32:05versus how women are treated
32:07and what women are expected to be.
32:09And so until you bridge that gap
32:12and actually represent women
32:14in the way that women want to be represented,
32:16you're never going to
32:18unlock the full potential
32:20of marketing a woman's sport
32:22because you're still always
32:24marketing it to men
32:26at the end of the day.
32:28So what's great about the WNBA,
32:30they might market to men
32:32but that's not their primary goal, right?
32:34It's just men.
32:36But their whole marketing
32:38is actually built around feminism.
32:40The WNBA has all of these programs
32:42that when you buy a ticket,
32:44a portion of ticket sales
32:46go to different women-led organizations,
32:48women's charities,
32:50reproductive health charities,
32:52they once had this
32:54like an opening billboard
32:56commercial kind of ad
32:58where it heavily featured
33:00the marches against Donald Trump,
33:02the feminist marches against Donald Trump.
33:04So that's really part of the voice.
33:06And so the NBA
33:08is a symbol for
33:10strong women,
33:12strong women, palaban.
33:14We're not here to bow to your gender norms.
33:16We're here to be women on our terms.
33:18And I think that's the next step
33:20that we can take here in the Philippines.
33:22It seems like your cover
33:24of The Athlete
33:26reporting revealed
33:28a gender divide.
33:30I mean, people already knew about it
33:32but it really showed
33:34the polarization,
33:36the differences in attitude.
33:39But
33:41you told Carla Vieira,
33:44men have to start speaking out
33:46on this as well.
33:48And I want to ask you,
33:50have men been
33:52supporting you?
33:54You mentioned editors
33:56and other men
33:58kind of attacking you
34:00and rebutting you
34:02and the women are behind you.
34:04Are there men
34:06who break this stereotype
34:08and support you?
34:10So the most
34:12supportive men
34:14that I encounter
34:16are actually men from outside
34:18the sports industry.
34:20People like Carl
34:22who's a wonderful supporter.
34:24He's a sports lawyer
34:26but he's not someone who works
34:28within sports media.
34:30I think within sports media
34:32there is a tremendous peer pressure
34:34in the old boys club
34:36because it's a highly
34:38relational industry.
34:40You get your gigs
34:42based on recommendations,
34:44based on people liking you.
34:46These are project contracts.
34:48So if you ruffle feathers,
34:50you stand to lose out.
34:52But I think
34:54women are more likely
34:56to speak up under those conditions.
34:58When I started speaking up,
35:00I would get in trouble,
35:01I would get less gigs,
35:03my career options were limited.
35:05But I think
35:07women are more likely
35:09to speak up under those conditions
35:11because we actually have skin in the game.
35:13Whereas for men,
35:15it's easier to be like,
35:17I'm sorry, I can't take this risk.
35:19I need to protect my relationships
35:20with you.
35:22I just can't post about it
35:24but thoughts and prayers.
35:27Or guys will be like,
35:29I really like what you're doing.
35:31You should continue doing that.
35:33And then that's it.
35:35Or they'll just say
35:37that he's saying
35:41these terrible things about you.
35:43And then I ask,
35:45did you tell him to stop?
35:47And then they're like,
35:48but I thought you should know.
35:52That's me on a personal level.
35:54But it's not just me,
35:55it's a whole industry.
35:58I think
36:00men are still afraid.
36:02For all of this male bravado
36:04and male machismo,
36:05men are afraid
36:07of losing their network.
36:09And men are afraid
36:11of taking a stand
36:13because of what it could mean to them.
36:16They're so comfortable
36:17with things being built for them
36:19that the thought of taking a risk
36:20and losing it
36:21is unimaginable
36:23for many of them.
36:26I don't know how we make it easier
36:27for them.
36:30I feel like self-discernment.
36:33Self-discernment.
36:36You need to get there
36:37because
36:38it's tiring to be a woman.
36:40It's always just us.
36:43It's tiring.
36:44Help each other.
36:46Speaking of which,
36:48one of your gigs
36:49is your social media producer
36:50for the Miralco Volks,
36:52PBA team of men.
36:56You mentioned earlier
36:58that men's basketball
37:00or PBA
37:02is kind of a conservative
37:04industry.
37:06In a way, you're in the lion's den.
37:09Tell us about that experience
37:10and why did you choose
37:12considering
37:13the risk
37:14for a young woman
37:15to be constantly
37:16interacting
37:18and maybe even risk
37:20offending
37:22large men.
37:24It can be scary.
37:28What's that like?
37:31I think the pattern here
37:32is that
37:34I am
37:35not a very risk-averse person.
37:38I like risk.
37:42The enjoyment for me
37:43of trying to
37:45make a change
37:47or trying to do something
37:49that could
37:51move the needle a little bit,
37:53that outweighs whatever
37:55discomfort that I have.
37:57I really actually enjoy it.
37:59When I first got the chance
38:00to work in the PBA
38:02in 2017,
38:03which I hadn't planned on,
38:05it only happened
38:06because I wrote an article
38:07saying that all PBA teams
38:09should have a social media
38:10and here's why.
38:12Suddenly,
38:13the NLEX Road Warriors
38:14were calling me
38:15and then a week later,
38:16I was pitching
38:17in front of
38:18Coach Yeng Giao
38:19and then
38:20suddenly,
38:21I had the job.
38:22I was their
38:23first-ever social media manager.
38:24I set everything up.
38:27You're right.
38:28It is Alliance Den.
38:30Without naming names,
38:32for the first month
38:33of me doing that,
38:34there was a basketball player
38:35who didn't call me
38:36by my name
38:37and kept addressing me
38:38as Bibi
38:39in front of
38:40other people
38:41and then
38:42the men didn't know
38:43what to do.
38:44They were like,
38:45and just ignoring
38:46their teammates.
38:49To me,
38:50but not really
38:51stopping their teammates,
38:52I wanted to be
38:53a woman
38:54in the PBA
38:55and I wanted
38:56to show people
38:57that a woman
38:58can belong here
38:59and a woman
39:00can make
39:01really good work.
39:02That was fuel
39:03for me to actually
39:04chase an award
39:05while I was with NLEX
39:06and we won
39:07an Anvil Award
39:08for a campaign
39:09and I really wanted
39:11to carve out
39:13my space there
39:14and I made a decision.
39:16You don't have
39:17to like me.
39:18We don't have
39:19to be chummy chums
39:20but I'm going to
39:21do good work
39:22and I'm going to
39:23show everyone
39:24that a woman
39:25is the one
39:26doing this good work.
39:27So I did that
39:28with NLEX
39:29and that was me
39:30in my mid
39:31to late 20s.
39:32I've been with
39:33Maralco
39:34since 2020
39:35and as you get older,
39:37your risk appetite
39:38change a little bit.
39:40So when I got to Maralco,
39:43this was also the time
39:44when I was taking on
39:45more leadership roles
39:47in my main job.
39:48So the social media management
39:50is just a freelance, right?
39:52And as I was taking on
39:54more leadership,
39:55I realized I can't spend
39:56so much emotional labor,
39:57you know,
39:58getting stressed out
39:59or trying to block harassers
40:00or trying to explain
40:01to PBA players
40:02that I'm not here
40:03to ruin your marriages.
40:05I'm not interested
40:06in any of you
40:07so stop getting in my way,
40:09you know.
40:10So I became quite selective actually
40:13and I think if Maralco
40:14wasn't the way that it is,
40:15I probably wouldn't be doing this.
40:17Maralco has so far
40:18been a very safe place for me.
40:20When the issue
40:23of Paul Desiderio
40:25came out,
40:26the allegations
40:27of really terrible,
40:28terrible abuse came out,
40:30I tweeted about it.
40:31Stopping violence
40:32against women
40:33is something that's
40:34very important to me
40:35and it went viral
40:36and I was invited
40:37to do an interview
40:38and I said goodbye
40:40to our team manager.
40:42I was fully expecting
40:44to be told no
40:46because of what I knew
40:47about basketball
40:48and I had been stealing myself.
40:50I was ready to get
40:51my heart broken
40:52because I had a wonderful experience
40:53with Maralco
40:54and I was like,
40:55oh gosh,
40:56this is going to be the moment
40:57where my heart breaks.
40:58So I said goodbye
40:59and then I said,
41:00sir, I'm not asking
41:01for your permission,
41:02I'm just letting you know
41:04and if the other teams
41:05get mad
41:07or if the governors
41:08of the other teams
41:09call us out for this,
41:11I hope you know
41:12that this is important
41:13and it's not just me.
41:14I had a lot of explanations
41:16and I was very nervous.
41:18And then our team manager,
41:20Paolo Trilio,
41:21who is married
41:23to UN Women's
41:24Philippines champion,
41:25Risa Mananquil Trilio,
41:27replies,
41:29don't worry,
41:30we'll back you up
41:31all the way.
41:32Good luck with your interview.
41:35And I was like,
41:36wow,
41:37I just got the green light
41:38to talk about violence
41:39against women
41:40in the PBA.
41:41And so I went on TV
41:42and then, of course,
41:44I did the thing.
41:46So, you know,
41:48I'm still here
41:49because I want
41:52to keep showing people
41:53that women can do it
41:54in this male-dominated PBA,
41:58but I want to do it
42:01in an environment
42:02where it's not so tough.
42:05Thank goodness,
42:06Miralco is a very nice place
42:08for me to work.
42:09And so,
42:10that's what I mean
42:11by publicly,
42:12there's a lot of change,
42:13but privately,
42:15those guys are still there.
42:17They're just a little shy
42:18to show that they're like that
42:21to the public
42:22because they need
42:23to sanitize their images.
42:25But it's still a big problem.
42:27Your players at Miralco,
42:28were they protective?
42:30You said you were
42:31nice to your players,
42:32so they were behind you.
42:34Well,
42:36different levels, right?
42:37Different levels.
42:39They're not all equally
42:40enlightened,
42:41but my favorite person
42:43is Chris Newsome.
42:44So he's our team captain.
42:47After that interview,
42:48he told me,
42:50hey, if anyone
42:52tries anything with you,
42:53you tell me.
42:55And he said
42:56he really appreciated that.
42:58But, you know,
42:59you hope,
43:00you just sit there
43:01and hope the dinosaurs
43:02will go extinct.
43:03And you wait,
43:04and you are the chicken.
43:07Yeah, well.
43:08The chicken that survives.
43:09Yeah.
43:10Well, they're also
43:11a reflection of society,
43:12but at the same time,
43:13if they change,
43:15maybe the rest of society
43:17will also change.
43:20I don't know.
43:21I think,
43:22Sir Howie,
43:23something that's
43:24really interesting is
43:26the increasing polarization
43:28of this gender conversation.
43:30Because while women
43:32are having more and more access
43:33to women empowerment content,
43:35more and more boys
43:36are falling down
43:37this algorithm
43:38of incel content
43:40and alpha male
43:42and woman-hating content.
43:45And so,
43:46in the same way that
43:47it's politically polarized,
43:50it's the same with gender.
43:51Yeah.
43:53Yeah, wow.
43:55Scholars should be
43:56studying that.
43:57The effect of all of this.
44:00Yeah, yeah.
44:02Healthy masculinity is disappearing.
44:05So, femininity is being celebrated,
44:08but healthy masculinity,
44:11like the male,
44:13the masculinity influencers
44:15that are preaching to young boys
44:17are preaching a very toxic version
44:19of masculinity.
44:20It's not like,
44:24the term that I use,
44:26I heard,
44:27is that the healthy version
44:28of masculinity
44:29is the heroic masculinity.
44:33From the myths,
44:34and this guy's the hero,
44:36and he protects people,
44:38and he saves people,
44:39that's the heroic masculinity.
44:41But then what's being taught
44:42to boys is this version of,
44:44you must dominate,
44:45you must be in control,
44:48you must,
44:50women are too much of a threat.
44:52And I hope,
44:54if anyone takes away anything
44:55from my story,
44:56it's that
44:57when you create environments
44:58for women
44:59to actually be empowered
45:00and use their voice,
45:02there's a multiplier effect.
45:04So, you know,
45:05if you're a guy
45:06and you can do that for women,
45:07maybe that's the first step
45:08you can take.
45:10Thanks, Sir Howie.
45:11It seems like you're
45:12moving the needle
45:13as you want to do.
45:15That's a really great
45:16and positive note to end on.
45:17This has been really fun
45:18and so enlightening.
45:21Thank you so much.
45:22Siege, Santenko, Malolos,
45:24thank you for your voice
45:25and for your courage.
45:27Go hard, Siege.
45:29Thank you.
45:31Hi, I'm Howie Severino.
45:33Check out the
45:34Howie Severino Podcast.
45:35New episodes will stream
45:36every Thursday.
45:37Listen for free
45:38on Spotify,
45:39Apple Podcasts,
45:40Google Podcasts,
45:41and other platforms.
45:54you