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  • 7 months ago
Sec. Antony Blinken testified in front of the Senate Appropriations Committee hearing on Tuesday.

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Transcript
00:00:00 With that, Mr. Secretary, the floor is yours.
00:00:03 Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Graham,
00:00:07 Vice Chair Collins,
00:00:10 Chair Murray, very good to be with all of you today on this on this committee.
00:00:14 I thank you. I thank you for the opportunity to testify before you.
00:00:17 I recognize people feel passionately. We must have order in this room.
00:00:29 We are going to proceed with this hearing.
00:00:31 Mr. Secretary, you may resume.
00:00:36 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:00:39 I want to thank you also for your partnership in working together to advance American leadership in the world.
00:00:44 Leadership that's so essential for delivering on the priorities that matter to our people at home.
00:00:49 I think the need for our global leadership and cooperation with allies and partners
00:00:56 Witness will suspend until the room is cleared of protesters.
00:00:59 Mr. Secretary, you may proceed. Chairman, thank you.
00:01:10 So I was saying the need for our leadership and cooperation with allies and partners has never been greater.
00:01:16 People's Republic of China is pursuing military, economic, and geopolitical preeminence,
00:01:22 challenging our vision for a free, open, secure, and prosperous international order.
00:01:26 Russia is committing aggression not only against Ukraine,
00:01:30 but against the principles at the heart of the UN Charter –
00:01:33 independence, territorial integrity, sovereignty – that are the building blocks for global peace and security.
00:01:38 In the Middle East, we're standing with Israel and its efforts to ensure that what happened on October 7th
00:01:43 never happens again, as we do everything we can to bring to an end the terrible UN suffering in Gaza and
00:01:48 prevent the conflict from spreading.
00:01:51 U.S. leadership is needed to address humanitarian crises elsewhere around the world.
00:01:55 Witness may suspend until we can clear the room.
00:02:01 Mr. Secretary, you may resume. Thank you.
00:02:12 Our leadership is needed to address humanitarian crises elsewhere around the world, including in Sudan, in Haiti,
00:02:18 where millions have been displaced, many killed, and to address global issues that no country can solve alone,
00:02:24 including food security, the changing climate, transnational corruption, and the fentanyl crisis.
00:02:29 But with the support of Congress, we can and we are approaching these challenges from a position of strength.
00:02:35 Because of the actions we've taken, the United States is stronger economically,
00:02:39 diplomatically, militarily, than we were a few years ago.
00:02:42 We've made historic investments here at home in our competitiveness, in our innovation, in our infrastructure.
00:02:48 We've renewed our alliances. We've built new ones. We've secured
00:02:51 unprecedented alignment with key partners in Europe, in Asia, and beyond.
00:02:55 We've delivered essential American aid to Ukraine, and we've rallied the international community to share the burden.
00:03:01 For every dollar that we've spent in economic and development assistance, others have collectively invested three more.
00:03:08 Now, many doubted that
00:03:10 bipartisan support for Ukraine and other urgent national security priorities could endure, but last month Congress demonstrated
00:03:18 to the world that we would not pull back.
00:03:20 You passed the President's supplemental funding bill by an overwhelming margin and on a bipartisan basis.
00:03:25 Our investment abroad does not come at the expense of our strength at home. Far from it.
00:03:30 Most of the supplemental is being spent here in the United States, building up our own defense industrial base,
00:03:36 supporting thousands of American jobs.
00:03:38 We need to keep up this momentum, and that requires a State Department and a budget that we fully resource
00:03:45 so that we can meet the challenges of our time. And I think, as Senator Graham put it, in effect,
00:03:50 an ounce of prevention is well worth more than a pound of cure. And we know that if we don't get these problems on the takeoff,
00:03:57 we're going to have to deal with them on the landing, but in much more costly and difficult ways.
00:04:01 The FY25 budget the President's putting forward, requesting 58.8 billion dollars to the State Department USAID,
00:04:07 does this in two ways. First, it funds the essential missions of our department and USAID.
00:04:13 The budget will ensure that the United States continues to be the partner of choice that countries can turn to
00:04:18 when they need to solve big problems, but problems that also affect us. In an era of renewed great power competition,
00:04:25 we've got to present the strongest possible offer, one that is relevant and responsive to countries' needs and that advances our security and economic interests.
00:04:33 That's why, for example, we're requesting two billion dollars for a new fund to build high-quality,
00:04:37 sustainable infrastructure around the world.
00:04:40 Crucially, these kinds of investments create jobs for Americans and expand markets for our businesses overseas.
00:04:46 We're requesting resources for the World Bank. With one billion in U.S. funding,
00:04:50 we can unlock another 36 billion dollars in development fund capacity to direct to the top priorities of emerging economies.
00:04:57 That's a huge return on our investment and essential, again, for competing with China around the world.
00:05:02 The budget also includes 1.7 billion dollars for international organizations,
00:05:06 including the United Nations, APEC, the Inter-American Development Bank, to help shape them in ways that reflect our interests and values.
00:05:13 We're asking for 500 million dollars to give more people around the world access to secure Internet and digital technologies.
00:05:19 Doing so will support the U.S. economy through the export of our technology products.
00:05:24 It will help us ensure that we and our fellow democracies remain the leaders and standard-setters in key technologies like artificial intelligence.
00:05:32 The budget includes funding to address global issues that affect the lives and livelihoods of the American people, as well as people around the world,
00:05:38 especially the synthetic drug crisis. It also funds our response to a regular migration, global food insecurity, public health, climate, and energy security.
00:05:47 And again, if these problems are not addressed up front,
00:05:50 inevitably, they're going to have an impact on us down the road.
00:05:53 We're also asking Congress to fully fund the State Department's educational and cultural exchanges.
00:05:57 These are really one of our best and most cost-effective tools for advancing U.S. values and interests around the world, and they support the students,
00:06:04 the researchers, the young professionals from our communities who study and work abroad.
00:06:08 To outcompete our strategic rivals,
00:06:11 we also need to invest in the foundation of our strength abroad, our diplomatic corps.
00:06:14 And that's the second pillar of the budget. Our budget makes a strong investment in expanding our overseas presence,
00:06:19 opening posts in the Pacific Islands, the Eastern Caribbean.
00:06:22 It will also continue our modernization of American diplomacy.
00:06:26 We are reorganizing the department to make sure that it is ready to face the challenges of this time.
00:06:32 We're attracting and working to retain the best possible talent.
00:06:36 We're investing in our people in Washington and in posts overseas with training, with technology.
00:06:41 We're promoting more agility, more innovation, more efficiency in the processes that we bring to bear.
00:06:45 Last year's enacted budget level represented a 5 percent cut from the year before.
00:06:50 That challenges our efforts to deliver the results that Congress and the American people deserve.
00:06:55 So I urge you to support this budget, which helps us address the most pressing foreign policy priorities for the coming year,
00:07:01 and lays the foundation for strong American leadership in the years beyond.
00:07:05 With that, I'm happy to take any questions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:07:08 Thank you, Mr. Secretary.
00:07:09 As I mentioned in my opening remarks, we're working with your department to increase investments in energy security, digital security,
00:07:18 economic growth, strategic infrastructure in your workforce.
00:07:21 Given the difficult cut of FY '24, a 5 percent cut, and that FY '25 will likely again be a very challenging overall budget environment,
00:07:30 any increased investments you will have the chance to do will likely come at the expense of other efforts.
00:07:37 What are some examples of what you'll have to scale back and the impact of doing so if your budget is not increased?
00:07:44 Look, first and fundamentally, there are some huge tradeoffs that we'd have to bring to bear on some of the big strategic issues that we're working on.
00:07:52 So if we have to look at how do we do the tradeoff between funding for strategic ports and transportation projects that we're engaged in,
00:08:00 for example, the Luzon Corridor in the Philippines, for example, the Libido Corridor in Africa, that's critical.
00:08:08 But at the same time, can we do that and then continue to fund the necessary programs to counter Russian aggression against Ukraine?
00:08:16 What about our ability to meet all of the global challenges that again are going to have inevitably an impact back home,
00:08:22 irregular migration, fentanyl, pandemic preparedness, food security?
00:08:26 As we've looked at it, we have to make – we would have to make fundamental tradeoffs among these big-ticket items.
00:08:33 But let me be even a little bit more parochial.
00:08:36 What does it actually mean if we're dealing with a world in which we have a 5 percent cut or, as some in the House have proposed, an 11 percent cut?
00:08:44 We are going to have to reduce passport and consular services that we've managed to build back after COVID.
00:08:50 We have plans to open new passport centers in this country.
00:08:54 They would stall out, and that would be to the detriment of the ability of Americans to travel around the world, see family, do business, get an education.
00:09:04 We would have to decrease the embassy security programs that we have.
00:09:07 We're trying to add new posts so that we're present around the world.
00:09:10 Not only would we have trouble adding those posts, we'd also have to look at cutbacks to security for existing posts.
00:09:16 And even if we were to insulate that particular program, well, those reductions would get passed on to everything else.
00:09:25 You were recently in Ukraine, and you forcefully underscored the message that the United States continues to stand with Ukraine.
00:09:33 And as I said, I'm grateful for the leadership of the chair and vice chair, and finally, delivering on critical and needed assistance.
00:09:39 That additional security and economic and humanitarian assistance needs to be delivered as soon as possible.
00:09:46 You mentioned in your opening statement for every dollar that we've delivered in terms of economic and development assistance, our partners have delivered free.
00:09:55 I'd just be interested in how you're continuing to engage partners and allies in ensuring that they're continuing to contribute.
00:10:03 In fact, exceeding our contributions and what you see as the prospects for the year ahead in Ukraine.
00:10:08 Well, first, I have to tell you that thanks to leadership here in getting the supplemental done, that was the biggest difference maker.
00:10:16 The biggest difference maker, practically speaking, in Ukraine, as that assistance is now getting delivered,
00:10:20 but also in making sure that we keep our allies and partners moving forward with us and making the necessary investments for Ukraine to continue to defend against the Russian aggression.
00:10:30 But also this, to set Ukraine up in a way that, as I believe strongly, it will be a success.
00:10:37 Militarily, economically, democratically, able to stand strongly on its own feet without the same level of investment that we've had to make in these few years.
00:10:46 We have programs underway in each of those areas, and you can see the single best rebuke to Putin is a strong, successful, thriving Ukraine.
00:10:55 We have the means now to make the necessary investments to do that.
00:11:00 Our partners remain fully on board.
00:11:02 But again, the supplemental was a big shot in the arm, both for Ukraine and European and other partners on this.
00:11:08 Thank you.
00:11:09 Since the horrific attacks by Hamas on October 7th, I've strongly supported Israel's right to defend itself.
00:11:15 Like many of my colleagues, I am also deeply concerned about the humanitarian crisis in Gaza,
00:11:20 which has become more dire in recent weeks given operations and the threat of further operations in Rafa.
00:11:26 What are you seeing in terms of assistance and the delivery of humanitarian relief?
00:11:30 What impact is the new pier having in Gaza that's been constructed by the United States?
00:11:35 What diversion are you seeing by Hamas of assistance we're delivering?
00:11:39 What diversion are you seeing by Israeli settlers and other protesters?
00:11:43 And what do you think is the prospects for some positive path forward for a day after in Gaza?
00:11:51 The people of Gaza, children, women, and men are experiencing a humanitarian crisis.
00:11:56 Food, water, medicine, shelter all remain in far too short supply.
00:12:05 We've been working on this from day one to try to get the necessary access to Gaza so that supplies could get in,
00:12:12 to try to get adequate distribution within Gaza,
00:12:15 to try to get proper deconfliction so the humanitarians can go about their work safely and securely.
00:12:21 And this remains absolutely essential work that we're at every single day.
00:12:27 In recent weeks, we've made important progress because of openings of access points in the north,
00:12:33 because north Gaza was particularly aggrieved.
00:12:37 But now we see the situation to some extent reversed because of the conflict taking place in and around Rafa.
00:12:46 Those access points, Rafa itself, as well as to some extent Karem Shalom,
00:12:50 have either been shut down or not operating at full capacity.
00:12:54 So we have that challenge, and it's imperative that those access points be fully operational.
00:12:59 At the same time, even as we've seen progress in getting Erez open and getting the route from Jordan moving with trucks,
00:13:08 those trucks have been disrupted in Israel by protesters,
00:13:12 and that – it's imperative that that stop and be brought to order so the trucks can move freely.
00:13:18 We did have a convoy yesterday that went through without impediment.
00:13:21 In Gaza itself, there remain problems of deconfliction with the humanitarians.
00:13:26 It's better at a sort of strategic level.
00:13:29 There are good procedures in place, but we continue to see some problems at the operational level,
00:13:34 at the tactical level, where a given unit may not know in real time that a convoy is supposed to go through.
00:13:41 So we're working on significantly improving that, finally fixing that to make sure that humanitarians can proceed safely,
00:13:49 getting designated corridors, if necessary, designated times,
00:13:53 getting real-time communication between those providing the assistance and those on the ground who are engaged in military activities.
00:13:59 All of this is a day-in, day-out work in progress, but we have to do better by the people of Gaza.
00:14:06 Thank you.
00:14:07 I want to thank Senator Graham and Senator Cardin, led, as you know, a bipartisan delegation of 10 of us to the region right after October 7th.
00:14:14 You've been working tirelessly to try and move forward some sort of reconciliation between the Saudis and Israelis,
00:14:20 and I hope we'll get a chance to turn to that.
00:14:22 Senator Collins.
00:14:23 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:14:29 Secretary Blinken, I share your relief that the National Security Supplemental Appropriations Bill that provides aid to Ukraine,
00:14:40 Israel, and our allies in the Indo-Pacific region is finally law.
00:14:47 Unfortunately, this is not the first time since Russia's evasion of Ukraine that Ukraine has had to wait for vital security assistance from the United States.
00:15:02 On numerous occasions, President Biden's administration has blocked transfer of weapons and equipment to Ukraine
00:15:12 until sufficient pressure from Congress and our NATO allies led to a change in course.
00:15:20 In some cases, after the point in the war when those weapons would have made the most difference.
00:15:28 For example, the Ukrainians requested Abrams tanks in early 2022.
00:15:34 The administration did not approve that transfer until January of 2023.
00:15:41 And the first tanks didn't arrive in Ukraine until October of last year.
00:15:47 Long-range attack missiles are another critical capacity that was requested early in 2022.
00:15:57 It took more than 18 months for the administration to approve a shorter-range version of attack missiles,
00:16:05 and the longer-range version was approved only last month.
00:16:09 Nearly two years after the request.
00:16:12 F-16s are another example.
00:16:16 My point is, had the administration acted when Ukraine first requested these weapons systems,
00:16:24 Ukraine would have been able to benefit sooner from the technological advantage these weapons systems provide.
00:16:33 What I am seeking from you is a commitment to speed up the delivery of weapons, of munitions,
00:16:43 of other technology at this very critical time during Ukraine's war with the aggressor Russia.
00:16:53 Thank you, Senator.
00:16:54 First, I can assure you that we are doing everything we can to accelerate the actual delivery of the assistance to the Ukrainians
00:17:01 so that they have it in their hands and can use it to deal with the ongoing Russian aggression.
00:17:06 Second, look, I have a different perspective on this than the one you just – than what you just shared.
00:17:12 Of course, the fact that well before the Russian aggression,
00:17:15 President Biden made sure in presidential drawdowns in the fall before the aggression,
00:17:21 Christmas before the aggression, that the Ukrainians had stingers, javelins, and other things in their hands.
00:17:27 We did it quietly. We did it effectively.
00:17:29 They were able to prevent the takeover of Kiev and push back the Russian aggression.
00:17:34 Every single step along the way, we have worked to get them what they need when they need it.
00:17:38 But as you know, it's not just the weapons systems that count.
00:17:43 You've got to make sure that people are trained on them,
00:17:45 because if they're not trained on them, it doesn't do you any good to have an aviance tank if you can't drive it.
00:17:49 If you can't maintain it, which is particularly complicated with some of this technology,
00:17:53 again, it doesn't do you much good to have it.
00:17:55 So I think the way that the Department of Defense, for example, has looked at this
00:17:59 is to make sure that if we are providing things, we do it in a comprehensive way
00:18:04 so that it's actually usable and sustainable, because again, otherwise it's not going to do you much good.
00:18:10 And certainly that was the case with the aviance tanks.
00:18:12 F-16s, there are no pilots to actually fly them, so we're training – others are training the pilots.
00:18:19 So all of these things do have a timeline to them.
00:18:23 You're right, but I think it's not simply a matter of providing the tank or the plane or the missile.
00:18:29 It's making sure that the entire infrastructure is there from the ability to use them,
00:18:34 the ability to maintain them, and then of course to have a concrete plan to make sure they're used effectively.
00:18:41 Well, from my perspective, there's been slow walking of certain weapons and munitions,
00:18:48 which I hope we can overcome.
00:18:51 I want to switch to a different issue, and that is that just yesterday,
00:18:56 the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction released a report that found that since August of 2021,
00:19:07 at least $10.9 million in U.S. taxpayer dollars has been provided to the Taliban-controlled government
00:19:17 by 38 implementing partners of the Department of Defense, USAID, and the U.S. Agency for Global Media.
00:19:26 How does the department explain the inspector general's assertion that U.S. assistance is going to the Taliban
00:19:36 through taxes, fees, and duties?
00:19:40 Well, two things, Senator.
00:19:42 First, I haven't seen the report, but I promise you I'll look at it promptly.
00:19:46 We're engaged with the inspector general on this on a daily basis.
00:19:51 We're responding to inquiries.
00:19:54 We have, I think, dedicated something like 13,000 staff hours since we left Afghanistan
00:19:59 to working with the inspector general's office, and we're committed to doing that.
00:20:05 I want to make sure that we're responsive and responsive in real time, so I'll look at this as soon as possible.
00:20:12 Are there yet fees, taxes, and things that get collected by the Taliban?
00:20:18 That sounds, unfortunately, logical, and maybe there is a – in this case, I don't know.
00:20:23 I don't want to speak to it not having seen the report.
00:20:25 Maybe there is, unfortunately, a cost of doing business by some of these organizations
00:20:29 that are trying to provide desperately needed assistance to people in Afghanistan.
00:20:33 I hope you will get back to me on that.
00:20:36 Finally, Mr. Secretary, illegal marijuana grows in Maine and elsewhere pose a significant national security
00:20:47 and public health risk.
00:20:49 According to the Drug Enforcement Administration's 2024 assessment,
00:20:55 there's been a notable uptick in the number of illicit marijuana cultivation sites linked to Chinese
00:21:05 and other Asian organized crime groups.
00:21:09 That includes my state of Maine, where between 100 and 200 sites have been identified.
00:21:18 Mr. Secretary, are these Chinese criminal syndicates operating these illegal marijuana grows in our country
00:21:28 with the knowledge and consent of the government of China?
00:21:33 Senator, first of all, let me defer to DEA on this, because they have the expertise about what's going on in the United States.
00:21:42 But I would welcome working with you on this.
00:21:46 Dealing with countering narcotics is a big part of our engagement with China.
00:21:51 We're, of course, very focused on synthetic opioids, fentanyl,
00:21:54 but any drug that poses a problem and is threatening our communities is something that we're deeply concerned with.
00:22:01 So I'd welcome following up with you on this.
00:22:03 Thank you.
00:22:04 Thanks.
00:22:05 Senator Murray. Chair Murray.
00:22:07 Thank you very much, Chair Coons, and thank you, Secretary Blinken, for joining us.
00:22:11 As I think every member of this committee would agree, this is an extremely challenging moment across the world.
00:22:18 And amid these challenges, your department's work couldn't be more important.
00:22:22 Our strength at home and across the world isn't just measured by the strength of our military.
00:22:27 It is measured by our diplomacy, our influence abroad, and our strategic investments,
00:22:33 like supporting our allies, building partnerships, strengthening trade and supply chains, and protecting civilians.
00:22:40 That's why these types of investments were a key part of the national security supplemental that I worked so hard to pass earlier this year.
00:22:48 We proved Congress can still come together to stand by our allies, like in Ukraine, and show American leadership is still strong.
00:22:56 We know there's a lot more work to do.
00:22:59 So when it comes to America's national security, it is absolutely critical we ensure that your department has the resources needed to fulfill its essential mission.
00:23:08 After all, Vladimir Putin is not operating his brutal invasion by a CR.
00:23:14 And President Xi certainly is not cutting investments in diplomacy or military or economic assistance or international development.
00:23:23 The lesson should be clear. When we fail to properly invest in the State Department and the powerful diplomatic tools we have, our adversaries fill the gap.
00:23:33 So I'm delighted you're here today and look forward to the conversation.
00:23:37 Mr. Secretary, U.S. foreign policy should reflect our interests, and that means being consistent with our values.
00:23:43 That includes protecting human rights and upholding the rule of law.
00:23:47 We have to stand by our allies in time of need, and at the same time, we have a responsibility to make sure weapons we provide do not contribute to violations of international humanitarian law,
00:23:59 which exists to limit suffering caused by warfare, even when the war itself is justified.
00:24:04 In May, the administration transmitted its first report under National Security Memorandum 20 to Congress.
00:24:11 This report found it was reasonable to assess some partner countries are using U.S.-provided weapons in a manner that is inconsistent with international law.
00:24:20 Clearly, more needs to be done to ensure human rights and the rule of law are central in our decisions regarding to what extent and under what conditions we provide security assistance to partner countries.
00:24:32 What steps are you taking to ensure security, assistance, legal requirements, and policies are being fully implemented?
00:24:40 Thank you very much, Chair.
00:24:42 And let me first say I fully agree with you, and it is imperative that as we provide security assistance, defense support to other countries, to allies and partners,
00:24:55 that it be used in a way that upholds international humanitarian law, the law of armed conflict, et cetera.
00:25:02 And we have processes in place, in fact, newly established in this administration to try to make sure that we're doing that,
00:25:14 particularly when it comes to the conventional arms transfer policy, something we call the CHERG process,
00:25:19 which tries to assess whether in any given incident involving civilian casualties, American weapons were used.
00:25:27 And those processes are actually underway.
00:25:30 We have multiple inquiries going on with regard to specific incidents.
00:25:38 I'm referring here to Gaza.
00:25:40 The challenge – and I think it's reflected in the NSM report that you referred to – the challenge is making final determinations in the midst of a war, in the midst of conflict.
00:25:49 It's very hard to get all of the dispositive information.
00:25:53 We're not on the ground.
00:25:54 We don't have access.
00:25:55 In the case of Gaza, you have an extraordinarily complicated battlefield where Hamas, a terrorist organization, hides behind and underneath civilians in apartment buildings and hospitals and mosques,
00:26:07 making it very, very difficult to make final, real-time assessments.
00:26:12 But as you noted and as the report concluded, given the totality of the damage that's been done to civilians in Gaza
00:26:20 and given the fact that there is – American weaponry is there,
00:26:25 it was reasonable to assess that in some instances it had been used in ways that are not consistent with international humanitarian law.
00:26:33 These instances are under investigation, under investigation by us.
00:26:37 They're also under investigation by Israel.
00:26:39 There are hundreds of open inquiries in Israel.
00:26:42 There are criminal investigations that are underway in Israel.
00:26:46 And our own process I take very seriously.
00:26:48 We can't have double standards, whether it's Israel or any other country that we provide weapons to,
00:26:53 in making sure to the best of our ability that they're used consistent with the requirements of international humanitarian law.
00:26:58 Do you have sufficient staff and resources to meet that objective?
00:27:02 It's a very good question, and it's something that we're looking very hard at,
00:27:07 because I think in order to do something like this in real time, the answer is probably no.
00:27:14 It's incredibly labor-intensive, and even with that, not having access in the midst of a war makes it even more difficult.
00:27:22 We're looking at ways that we can better resource what we're doing,
00:27:28 and that's certainly something we'll come to you with, because I want to make sure that we do it as thoroughly and as effectively as possible,
00:27:33 even given the conditions in which we're doing it.
00:27:36 Okay, thank you.
00:27:37 And let me turn to Ukraine.
00:27:39 I really appreciated your update on where you are deploying new weapons and non-military aid to Ukraine.
00:27:44 But despite our tireless efforts here in the Senate, the national security supplemental was significantly delayed,
00:27:51 and I'm very worried about the window that that has now given Putin and Russia to build up their forces
00:27:57 and make the advances that we have seen in the last few weeks.
00:28:00 I'm also really concerned about reports of Russia's increased weapons production
00:28:05 and the challenges the U.S., our European partners, and Ukraine will have in keeping up with them.
00:28:11 You were just in Kiev.
00:28:13 Given the recent gains on the battlefield by Russia,
00:28:16 what is your assessment of how quickly the aid and support alongside our allies
00:28:21 could translate to the Ukrainians holding the line or, in fact, regaining territory?
00:28:25 So I think it's translating into that right now.
00:28:30 The items that were funded or supported by the supplemental are already there,
00:28:35 and more – much more is flowing, but we've already seen that arrive.
00:28:38 I think it's had two impacts, clearly a psychological impact, which Ukraine very much needed in this moment.
00:28:44 It really bucked them up to know that all of this was on the way.
00:28:47 But we're also starting to see a practical impact in terms of these necessary pieces of equipment,
00:28:53 arms getting into the hands of Ukrainians when they need it most.
00:28:57 Now, what's going on in the northeast?
00:28:59 You primarily have a challenge of making sure that in the first instance Ukrainians have effective defenses
00:29:04 against the attempt by the Russians to create a buffer zone and to challenge Kharkiv.
00:29:10 But I think we're getting to a point where that's starting to come into effect.
00:29:14 So my hope and expectation, based on what we've seen, is you will see a stronger and stronger resilience
00:29:22 to what Russia is trying to do as a result of the supplemental, as a result of things that Europeans are providing.
00:29:28 But I have to tell you, there was real damage done over the last eight months,
00:29:35 and that gap unfortunately was filled to some extent by the Russians pushing forward.
00:29:41 Now I think we have – the Ukrainians have the means to more effectively deal with that.
00:29:44 Okay, thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary.
00:29:47 Thank you, Chair Moran.
00:29:49 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:29:51 Mr. Secretary, I believe the money in this account is about 1 percent of all federal spending. Is that correct?
00:29:58 That's correct, yes.
00:30:00 And out of that pot of money, we provide security for personnel, State Department officials all over the world, right?
00:30:07 That's right.
00:30:08 Have you ever seen more threats to us than you do today?
00:30:11 Senator, we're operating in an incredibly dangerous – we want to be out there.
00:30:16 Right. So it's hard to get out there if you can't get off the compound.
00:30:19 That's correct.
00:30:21 So this is 1 percent of the federal budget.
00:30:22 If you eliminated the entire account, you're not doing anything to balance the budget.
00:30:25 We need OCO, in my view, for the Navy, and we need OCO for this account to deal with the threats we face
00:30:33 because the top-line numbers – hats off to Senator Murray and Collins – is just insufficient to the threats we face.
00:30:40 Do you generally agree with that, that the amount of money we're dealing with is insufficient to the threats we face?
00:30:46 Yes, I do.
00:30:47 Let's talk about money.
00:30:48 In the supplemental, which I supported, there was a provision that allowed – it's called repo –
00:30:53 allowing us to go after Russian sovereign wealth funds. Is that correct?
00:30:57 Yes.
00:30:58 Are you having good luck in doing that?
00:31:01 We're starting to, and first of all, I want to thank you for that.
00:31:03 I think that was a very important initiative.
00:31:05 Just today, the European Union came to an agreement to use the interest from the sovereign assets
00:31:12 and to just be able to use it for Ukraine.
00:31:15 What about the principle?
00:31:16 So the principle is the next challenge, and we're working hard on that.
00:31:19 I think here's where we are.
00:31:21 My hope is that we can come to agreement, at the very least, on an arrangement by which the principle would, in effect,
00:31:29 serve as collateral against a significant loan or bond that would free up a lot of money for the Ukraine.
00:31:36 Count me in, and I think all of us, pushing our European allies to go after Russian assets,
00:31:41 to open up another front, to hit Putin and his cronies in the pocketbook.
00:31:45 So I want to help you there.
00:31:47 Do you support Russia being designated a state sponsor of terror?
00:31:51 So this is, I know, an ongoing conversation we've had and one that—
00:31:55 Well, I just got a few minutes.
00:31:57 So very quickly, look, I think my perspective is this.
00:32:01 We have and we're using many other authorities that I think are more clearly applicable to—
00:32:05 We'll talk offline.
00:32:06 I would urge you to do this.
00:32:08 We need to send a signal to Russia.
00:32:10 We're serious at every level, and they deserve to be a state sponsor of terrorism.
00:32:14 I've got a list of people that died that's too long for me to run off, and I can't say half their names.
00:32:20 So it's just, it's time for Putin to be labeled a state sponsor of terrorism.
00:32:24 They've just wreaked havoc.
00:32:28 Now let's get to the ICC.
00:32:30 Did you reach out to the prosecutor's office about your concerns of bringing a case against Israel?
00:32:37 Yes.
00:32:38 Did you talk about the concept of complementarity?
00:32:41 That's exactly what I talked about because it's exactly, as you said, my understanding of the court's intent.
00:32:46 So I want to, you know, we have a lot of different—I want to thank you.
00:32:50 I want to thank President Biden for issuing a strong statement.
00:32:53 Your statement was terrific, Mr. Secretary.
00:32:56 Senator Schumer was very, very good.
00:32:58 I, along with many others, engaged the ICC to engage Israel before you made a final decision.
00:33:04 At least listen to them and see if you could find common ground.
00:33:08 Again, I want to repeat, they were supposed to be on the ground yesterday, is that correct, the ICC?
00:33:13 That's my understanding, yes.
00:33:14 And they informed the Israelis basically after the flight left they were not coming, is that correct?
00:33:19 That's my understanding.
00:33:20 And there was a CNN interview with a prosecutor general announcing the arrest warrant, is that correct?
00:33:25 That's my understanding, too.
00:33:26 Which was filmed before the flight was due to leave.
00:33:28 I believe that's right.
00:33:29 I think that's bad faith, folks.
00:33:31 So I want to take actions, not just words.
00:33:34 Will you support bipartisan effort to sanction the ICC, not only for the outrage against Israel,
00:33:40 but to protect in the future our own interest?
00:33:43 I welcome working with you on that.
00:33:45 Okay.
00:33:46 Let it be said that we're going to work together to send a signal to the ICC.
00:33:50 What you did was not only outrageous, you destroyed the rule of law as we know it.
00:33:54 And you've given, like, Venezuela nine months.
00:33:58 And I've never been more disappointed.
00:34:01 We worked together to help the ICC against Russia.
00:34:04 Ungoverned spaces and rogue nations are the point of ICC, not Israel.
00:34:09 So let's talk about the deal.
00:34:13 Are you optimistic that the normalization between Saudi Arabia and Israel is still possible?
00:34:19 I am.
00:34:20 And I have to, first of all, applaud the work that you've done on this over many, many months in helping carry this forward.
00:34:26 And I think we're at a point where the necessary agreements between the United States and Saudi Arabia are very well within reach.
00:34:33 And, of course, we would bring all of this before Congress.
00:34:37 But then the question will be, if those agreements are able to be concluded,
00:34:42 it still requires Israel to do certain things in order to proceed with normalization.
00:34:46 I've heard the statement the ball is about to be in Israel's court.
00:34:49 Is that fair to say?
00:34:50 That's my assessment, yes.
00:34:52 Okay.
00:34:53 So as I understand it, here's what's non-negotiable.
00:34:55 Nobody expects Hamas to be standing militarily when this war is over, right?
00:35:00 We share Israel's view they must go military.
00:35:03 We share Israel's view that Hamas cannot be governing Gaza.
00:35:05 Right.
00:35:06 And they cannot be a military threat to Israel.
00:35:08 We all agree with that.
00:35:09 Okay.
00:35:10 Now, as to the Palestinian future, we were on television last week, and I thought you laid out a pretty eloquent what's going to happen once the battalions are destroyed.
00:35:19 What does the day after look like?
00:35:22 Do you believe a military occupation of Gaza by Israel is sustainable?
00:35:26 No.
00:35:27 You know, I have real doubts about that myself.
00:35:30 Do you believe that Saudi Arabia and the UAE have the capability, if they have the will, to turn Gaza and West Bank around?
00:35:38 I believe a number of countries could play an instrumental role in, at least on an interim basis if necessary, helping to provide security, helping to provide governance or governance oversight.
00:35:48 It could be a coalition of people.
00:35:49 Do you believe MBS is sincere in wanting to normalize with Israel?
00:35:54 Yes.
00:35:55 Do you believe that the Palestinian component is not the establishment of a Palestinian state on day one, but a process that may get to there?
00:36:05 There has to be a clear, credible pathway to a state.
00:36:08 Right, but not the establishment of a state on day one.
00:36:10 Well, day one is virtually impossible, but getting to a state in a time-bound way would be --
00:36:16 That's one of the things he wants. That's one of the things he wants to recognize.
00:36:20 It has to be credible, it has to be clear. In my judgment, we need to have something that's time-bound, and of course it has to have the necessary security guarantees for Israel.
00:36:26 So you're not advocating any agreement between normalization that would compromise Israel's security regarding the Palestinian file?
00:36:35 No. The whole point of normalization, but also the whole point of the establishment of a Palestinian state, is to make sure that Israel's security is better ensured.
00:36:45 I've been over there several times. Senator Collins went, a lot of people here went. I know my time's up.
00:36:52 I cannot see a better time than now. The need to come up with a plan for Gaza and the West Bank after Hamas falls, and it will, is real.
00:37:04 The opportunity is historic. Do not let this moment pass.
00:37:09 To my friends in Israel, I will never abandon your security, but we're going to have to sit down as a world and make some hard decisions.
00:37:17 So, Mr. Secretary, I've enjoyed working with you and Mr. Sullivan and the President.
00:37:23 I have said publicly I think this needs to be done on your watch, and I want to say again publicly, as a Republican,
00:37:30 I think most of my colleagues would embrace a security agreement between the United States and Saudi Arabia if it would lead to normalization and a brighter future for Israel and the Palestinian people.
00:37:43 I believe that is the position of most people on my side of the aisle, and we want to help you.
00:37:49 Thank you, Senator.
00:37:51 Thank you, Senator Graham, and thank you for your dedicated and persistent pursuit of a path forward that would actually deliver the end of the Arab-Israeli conflict,
00:38:02 recognition of Israel by Saudi Arabia, and a path toward self-governance for Palestinians.
00:38:06 That is something so many of us hope we can see. And thank you, Mr. Secretary.
00:38:10 Senator Durbin.
00:38:12 Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Secretary. It's good to see you, and thank you for your tireless efforts on behalf of this nation. I appreciate it.
00:38:19 I'd like to mention two political prisoners in different parts of the world that we have reached out to and been in contact with,
00:38:28 a Cambodian-American Democrat activist, Terry Singh, who is serving a six-year sentence on nonsense charges,
00:38:39 and Gulshan Abbas, a Chinese Uyghur doctor languishing in a Chinese prison on a 20-year dubious charge.
00:38:46 I hope you'll continue to advocate for these two.
00:38:49 The short answer is yes, we will and we are.
00:38:52 I want to reiterate something I said on the floor last week, specifically supporting President Biden
00:38:59 in suspending key weapons deliveries to Israel that could be used for a full assault on Gaza and Rafa.
00:39:06 Our president has stood in solidarity with the Israeli people since the horrific October 7th Hamas attack,
00:39:12 which I might add included taking hostage someone with ties to my state, Hirsch Goldberg Polan.
00:39:19 There's recent evidence of life and survival, so we're anxious to see his return.
00:39:26 But like President Biden, and like many of us, I've had enough with Prime Minister Netanyahu's strategy in Gaza
00:39:33 that has caused the deaths of thousands of innocent Palestinians, many of whom are women and children.
00:39:40 How can we in good conscience continue to supply Netanyahu with weapons for a war where he restricts access
00:39:48 to humanitarian aid like food, medicine, and fuel at the expense of women and children?
00:39:56 Senator, we've been determined from day one to do two things.
00:39:59 One, to make sure that Israel had what it needs to defend itself, to make sure that October 7th couldn't happen again.
00:40:05 But also in so doing, to look out for the protection of civilians and their needs, their humanitarian needs.
00:40:12 And from day one, we've been pushing, pressing Israel to make sure that access was there, supplies were there,
00:40:20 distribution was there, deconfliction was there.
00:40:23 And that's been virtually every single day of the last eight months, working on that to try to improve the conditions
00:40:31 for those who are caught in this horrific crossfire Hamas is making.
00:40:34 And particularly the children, the women, the innocent men who are suffering terribly every single minute or every single day.
00:40:41 We have heard over and over that there is an Israeli strategy to restrict access to humanitarian aid in Gaza.
00:40:50 And as a consequence, children are starving to death and people are in desperate situations.
00:40:55 I have personal friends of mine who've been there, medical doctors.
00:40:58 The reports are horrific of what deprivation has been caused there.
00:41:04 Is that at the hands of Israel's strategy or is that a part of it?
00:41:09 In our judgment, this is not and has not been a deliberate attempt to deny people what they need.
00:41:15 But this has not been the priority that it should have been and needs to be in terms of what Israel is doing in Gaza.
00:41:23 It's, as we know, an incredibly complicated terrain in which to operate, given the nature of the enemy and what it does.
00:41:31 But we have said for some time, for a long time, that in our judgment,
00:41:37 the needs of the civilian population need to be put front and center and to design everything else around that, not the other way around.
00:41:45 Over these many months, as we've gotten different access points open,
00:41:49 starting with Rafah back in October, to Kerem Shalom some weeks later,
00:41:54 to other crossing points, whether it was Erez or the 96 crossing, the route from Jordan with trucks, now our own maritime pier.
00:42:02 All of this has been designed, and with Israel's cooperation, to get assistance to people who desperately need it.
00:42:10 But it has not been enough. It has not been effectively distributed. And people continue to suffer grievously.
00:42:15 So we're working to do everything we can to maximize what they get. De-confliction remains a real problem as well.
00:42:22 So I understand the administration's position and agree with it, that when it comes to denying them, for example,
00:42:27 access to 2,000-pound bombs, which may destroy the lives of innocent people, and certainly would in those confined circumstances,
00:42:36 that is an expressed statement by the United States that any policy of the Israelis that includes those bombs, we are not going to be complicit. Is that true?
00:42:44 To be clear about what the president said, and we've shared this for some time,
00:42:49 we have deep concerns and in fact cannot support a major military operation going into Rafah absent a credible plan to protect civilians.
00:42:59 We haven't seen such a plan. We have deep concerns in a dense urban environment like Rafah with the use of something like a 2,000-pound bomb.
00:43:07 That's why we've been engaged in a discussion with the Israelis about it.
00:43:11 So the point I'm getting to, though, is when you look at the interdiction or denial of humanitarian aid and the deaths of innocent people,
00:43:20 particularly women and children, what are we doing to put the pressure on Israel to stop that?
00:43:26 Oh, I think that's there every single day. The president's been very clear with Prime Minister Netanyahu about that.
00:43:35 I've done the same with my various counterparts. We have commitments from Israel, including in writing,
00:43:41 about the steps that haven't been taken that need to be taken, that they say they will take and are taking,
00:43:47 and we're working to hold them to those steps. We have to make sure that more aid gets into more people more effectively.
00:43:52 But I see this television coverage of miles and miles of trucks waiting to bring humanitarian aid, and I'm thinking while they're...
00:43:59 We're refraining Jewish values. We're refraining Jewish values.
00:44:04 At the same time that these children are starving and being denied basic medical assistance,
00:44:11 it strikes me that we're building extraordinary piers, temporary piers, at cost of millions of dollars,
00:44:19 because the Israelis will not open up the gates to let the trucks in. Is that...
00:44:25 No, the pier, which is now functional, was designed to be a complement to, not a substitute for, these gates.
00:44:31 So the gates are open?
00:44:32 So in the north, we have Erez and Zakim, which were recently opened.
00:44:38 We have routes in the south, though, and this is what's happened in the last couple of weeks.
00:44:43 With the operations now taking place in the area of Rafah, and particularly the Rafah gate, that was shut down.
00:44:50 Kerem Shalom was operating at much less capacity than before because of the military operations that Israel's engaged in in the last few weeks.
00:44:59 So what we don't want to see is a reversal.
00:45:03 We had terrible problems, particularly in the north, in getting aid in,
00:45:07 and the north was a particularly acute disaster area for the people that were still there.
00:45:13 That's been improved, again, not sufficiently, in opening these crossings from the north.
00:45:18 We have convoys coming in from Jordan as well that are going directly to the north, Ashdod port.
00:45:23 But now the situation in the south is deeply, deeply, deeply concerning,
00:45:29 because these gates have either been shut down or they're not operating as efficiently as they should.
00:45:35 I hope that the United States, through the President, will take the same resolute, determined stand
00:45:40 when it comes to the interdiction of humanitarian aid.
00:45:44 We have been briefed by credible sources that there is little or no smuggling taking place into Hamas,
00:45:50 and that the basic foodstuffs and medicine and fuel that are needed for these families that are struggling to survive there
00:45:58 is being stopped and trickles in instead of coming in at full force.
00:46:02 I hope we show the same level of determination for that as we did with these 2,000-pound bombs.
00:46:07 We do. Thank you.
00:46:10 Thank you, Senator Durbin.
00:46:11 Senator Bozeman.
00:46:14 Senator Moran.
00:46:17 Thank you, Senator Bozeman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:46:19 Mr. Secretary, introduction of Russian troops into Niger,
00:46:25 same bases where American personnel, including Kansas members of the National Guard, are stationed.
00:46:33 What's being communicated to the junta in Niamey to make certain our service members are protected?
00:46:40 And what can you assure me about our pending withdrawal, that it will be safe and responsible?
00:46:46 Thank you, Senator.
00:46:47 My number one priority, the number one priority of the Secretary of Defense in this case is force protection or personnel protection.
00:46:53 And particularly in a situation like Niger where, yes, we had a coup,
00:46:57 we sought to reach an agreement with the junta or the government that exists now about staying.
00:47:04 We haven't been able to reach an agreement that meets our needs.
00:47:08 But we've been absolutely clear with them about the imperative of making sure that as we pull forces out,
00:47:16 we do it in a way that is safe and secure for those forces, just as our embassy personnel needs to be protected.
00:47:22 We have assurances from that government about that.
00:47:27 But my number one priority is making sure that whatever happens as we proceed with bringing forces out,
00:47:34 it's done in a way that protects them.
00:47:36 I think I read in the general press about a September 15th date for departure.
00:47:41 That's correct.
00:47:42 What's that based on? Why from now until then?
00:47:45 Basically the amount of time it takes to do it safely, securely, to retrograde all of the material that's there.
00:47:52 Again, to your point, we also want to make sure that we not only bring our people home,
00:47:56 we bring all of the equipment home, technology home, because we certainly don't want Russians or Russian proxies getting a hold of that.
00:48:04 Related but concerning is we've spent billions of dollars in security assistance for countries across the Shahil,
00:48:13 including training their militaries.
00:48:16 I think we've seen five coups by the very military that the U.S. is training since 2020.
00:48:24 And the numbers I've seen suggest that terrorism-related activities grow by 2,000 percent in the last 15 years.
00:48:33 What is it that we need to do to change our policies and where do we go?
00:48:39 Emphasis on security assistance versus governance, peace building, conflict resolution.
00:48:44 Yeah, I think you put your finger on something critical, which is that as necessary as the security and military assistance is, it's not sufficient.
00:48:51 And a more comprehensive approach that gets at trying to build government capacity, institutions, transparency, economic development, social needs,
00:49:03 all of those things are imperative if we're actually going to have something that's sustainable.
00:49:09 So we have some comprehensive plans in place to do that.
00:49:12 With some of the countries surrounding the Shahil, we have the Global Fragility Act, thanks to Congress and indeed many members of this committee,
00:49:19 that gives us both the means and the long-term approach to try to help build that up,
00:49:24 because I think if we don't, all the security assistance in the world is probably not going to work and we're going to be on the wrong end of what you've just described.
00:49:33 Mr. Secretary, I think in last year's hearing I raised this topic and asked this question.
00:49:39 There's lots of reasons that this is important, but we have an average 400-day wait time to receive a visitor's visa to the United States.
00:49:53 Senator Klobuchar and I have introduced the Visa Process Improvement Act.
00:49:58 I'm reminding you that we have the Olympics coming to the United States, FIFA, World Cup in 2026.
00:50:08 Eleven cities, including Kansas City, are hosting this event, these events.
00:50:15 It's expected to attract 8 million international visitors.
00:50:20 What's the plan? Is there changes that we've not yet seen that improve the situation for the visa processing system to address this 400-day average wait?
00:50:30 Yes, in short, yes, and we've been on this relentlessly.
00:50:33 The fact is, right now, more visitors can travel to the United States than ever before as a result of visas.
00:50:39 For FY23, we issued 10.5 million non-immigrant visas, and that exceeds what we issued before the pandemic,
00:50:47 which is when we got into a great deal of difficulty, exceeds it by 20 percent.
00:50:53 We have – with a high – high standards for security and vetting, which, of course, remains critical in what we're doing.
00:51:00 We have reduced interview wait times across the board.
00:51:04 They are now at pre-pandemic levels in every single category except for first-time visitors to the United States from non-visa waiver countries.
00:51:13 So this is an area that we're putting particular focus on because every other wait time is actually below now pre-pandemic wait times.
00:51:21 The processing times that are most impactful to our economy, whether it's students, temporary workers, business travelers, all of those wait times are actually down.
00:51:31 So we have to focus on and we are focused on the first-time travelers who are not coming from visa waiver countries.
00:51:36 We have dedicated extensive resources to this to make sure that both in our embassies and back home we can do what's necessary to process people, process them quickly.
00:51:46 Is there any evidence, Mr. Secretary, that China has taken steps, tangible steps, to reduce the flow of fentanyl and precursor chemicals into the United States?
00:51:56 Yes, a good start, but not enough.
00:52:00 By a good start I mean this. After the meeting between President Biden and President Xi, President Biden secured an agreement by China to act and act more effectively on this.
00:52:12 And what we've seen since then is the promulgation of new regulations to their chemical-producing companies.
00:52:19 We've seen them take down some companies that were engaged in the illicit transfer of chemical precursors.
00:52:25 And in addition, they established with us a working group so that we are working on this regularly and we can bring information to them about things that we're seeing.
00:52:34 Having said that, we believe that to really have an impact on the flow of these precursors that typically would go to Mexico, synthesized into fentanyl, come to the United States, there are a few things that we really need to see.
00:52:45 One is very public law enforcement with prosecutions and convictions of people or enterprises that are engaged in this.
00:52:54 Two, there are a number of chemical precursors that should be scheduled, that China at least theoretically has agreed to schedule, that they still haven't, thus making it more difficult for companies to divert them.
00:53:06 And third, there is a financial nexus between some actors and entities in China and criminal organizations in Mexico in particular that they need to act on.
00:53:18 Is China ambivalent or it actually gains benefit from supporting the trade?
00:53:24 I think from what we've seen, they saw it before as principally a problem for us and a demand problem that we were not addressing effectively.
00:53:34 We have made it clear to them that one, this is a number one priority for us.
00:53:40 As you know well, Americans between the ages of 18 and 49, number one killer is fentanyl, synthetic opioid.
00:53:47 So this is a national emergency.
00:53:49 Second, what we've seen is that even as our markets have become saturated, these criminal enterprises are making markets elsewhere around the world, in our own hemisphere, in Europe, in Asia.
00:53:59 And we've made it clear to China, there's going to be a growing demand signal on you to act responsibly in dealing with this.
00:54:06 You may not care so much if it's coming from us.
00:54:08 You're probably going to care more if it's coming from a lot of other countries.
00:54:11 We've put together a coalition now of almost 150 countries and organizations to deal globally with the synthetic drug crisis.
00:54:18 And I think China is hearing those demand signals and we're seeing action.
00:54:22 But again, it's a start, but it's not enough.
00:54:25 Thank you.
00:54:28 Senator Van Hollen.
00:54:30 Thank you, Senator Schatz.
00:54:32 And good to see you again, Mr. Secretary.
00:54:34 I do want to follow up here where we left off earlier in this morning's Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing.
00:54:40 I did hear your exchange with Senator Murray, where you indicated that in the middle of a conflict,
00:54:47 it would be difficult to reach any final conclusions about whether or not U.S. weapons were used in violation of international humanitarian law.
00:54:56 I would just point out that there are many other conflicts where we are able to quickly make and do issue those kind of judgments.
00:55:04 But what I don't think is complicated at all is if you look at the period of time from October 7th,
00:55:11 the terrible Hamas October 7th attacks to the present,
00:55:15 I don't think it's complicated to conclude that the Netanyahu government has complied with international norms
00:55:24 with respect to the delivery of humanitarian assistance along that continuum of time.
00:55:29 Is it your testimony today that the Netanyahu government has complied with international norms
00:55:36 when it comes to delivering humanitarian assistance to desperate people in Gaza since October 7th until today?
00:55:43 I think there's been a huge gap between stated intent and actual results,
00:55:47 and that's a gap that we've been trying to close every single day.
00:55:50 And I think that's what we've been seeing for many months.
00:55:54 Mr. Secretary, I get that.
00:55:56 Obviously, my question was whether or not there's been a violation of international norms,
00:56:01 which I think to any person with eyes to see and ears to hear, there have been.
00:56:09 And as you know, there are many people in the U.S. government who have reached similar conclusions,
00:56:14 and actually it's been well reported on.
00:56:17 So I think that does hurt our credibility when we're not able to make that clear call.
00:56:22 Let me move on to the issue where we were in agreement, I think, this morning,
00:56:27 which is that it's in our national security interest to have a durable end to the conflict in Gaza
00:56:34 and to the larger Israeli-Palestinian conflict,
00:56:38 and that we can only achieve security and self-determination and dignity and justice for Israelis and Palestinians alike
00:56:46 by securing a normalization of relations with Israel and Saudi Arabia and other states,
00:56:52 as well as a clear plan – I think you said time-bound plan – to establish a Palestinian state.
00:56:59 Am I paraphrasing that fairly?
00:57:01 That's correct.
00:57:02 And you agree that it's not possible to achieve a secure and just end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
00:57:10 by jumping over the equities of the Palestinian people. Is that right?
00:57:14 Absolutely not. That's impossible. It would be self-defeating.
00:57:18 I want to emphasize that point because you know, Mr. Secretary, you've been around Washington for a long time,
00:57:25 because it has been fashionable in some foreign policy circles to believe that you could do that,
00:57:32 that you could somehow achieve peace and stability and security by jumping over the Palestinian issue.
00:57:40 And I want to emphasize this because you have said that the Saudis are insistent on a clear path
00:57:48 to a Palestinian state and time-bound path, but it's also in our national security interest.
00:57:56 So are we also insistent on that?
00:57:58 Yes, we are. And again, it's interesting and I think instructive to note that perhaps the two most vicious
00:58:06 and vociferous enemies of a two-state solution are Hamas and Iran.
00:58:11 That should tell you something and it also should tell you what a rebuke to both Hamas and Iran it would be
00:58:17 if we could finally get on this pathway in a credible and time-bound way.
00:58:22 And I think certainly everything we've heard from the Saudis in the context of having these normalization discussions
00:58:28 makes it clear that they feel the same way.
00:58:30 Well, I'm glad you raised that because there is one other party, right, in addition to the two that you mentioned,
00:58:36 that has been dead set against a Palestinian state and a two-state solution.
00:58:43 In December of 2022, just the day before the new Netanyahu government was sworn in,
00:58:49 Netanyahu issued a list of priorities for this new, very extreme government.
00:58:54 And I'm quoting one of his guiding principles was the Jewish people have an exclusive
00:59:02 and inalienable right to all parts of the land of Israel, meaning including all the West Bank.
00:59:10 So I want to read to you something else that Prime Minister – now Prime Minister Netanyahu said back in 2019
00:59:17 at a Likud meeting, and this has been well reported, and I quote,
00:59:22 "Anyone who wants to prevent the creation of a Palestinian state needs to support strengthening Hamas.
00:59:30 This is part of our strategy to divide the Palestinians between those in Gaza and those in Judea and Samaria," end quote.
00:59:40 So, Mr. Secretary, you mentioned some of the other opponents of a two-state solution,
00:59:46 and it's absolutely true that Hamas believes in one state, right?
00:59:50 Their despicable endgame is one state where they wipe out the state of Israel, right?
00:59:57 And so can you be really clear as to why Prime Minister Netanyahu is simply misrepresenting the case
01:00:06 when he says that a Palestinian state and a two-state solution would be, quote, "a reward for Hamas"?
01:00:12 Isn't it exactly the opposite?
01:00:13 I believe it's exactly the opposite.
01:00:15 Of course, a Palestinian state has to come with the necessary security guarantees for Israel.
01:00:21 No one wants to see a state emerge that would become a threat to Israel,
01:00:27 and I think it's – there are effective ways to make sure that that doesn't happen.
01:00:32 But yes, to your point, again, I think the biggest rebuke to Hamas and to Iran
01:00:38 would be the realization of a Palestinian state alongside a Jewish and democratic Israel.
01:00:43 And I agree with you 100 percent, Mr. Secretary.
01:00:47 I just want us to be clear-eyed about all the forces that are raided against us.
01:00:51 Part of the effort to undermine the PA or the two-state solution
01:00:55 has been undermining the Palestinian Authority.
01:01:00 As you know, Finance Minister Smotrich has been withholding funds for the PA,
01:01:05 which is weakening the PA and creating an even more unstable security situation on the West Bank.
01:01:13 Today, Ben Gavir talked about reoccupying Gaza.
01:01:16 He said he'd like to live in Gaza.
01:01:19 So this is today reported.
01:01:21 So my question, Mr. Secretary, is what are we willing to do
01:01:26 when people like Finance Minister Smotrich hold up funds for the PA, weakening security,
01:01:34 and at what point do we say that our continued support is contingent on more cooperation?
01:01:41 I think if you ask the Israeli security forces, whether it's the intelligence forces, Shin Bet,
01:01:47 whether it's the IDF, they will tell you that the PA plays an absolutely critical,
01:01:52 essential role in trying to preserve security and stability on the West Bank.
01:01:57 They do it in an incredibly difficult environment
01:02:01 precisely because they're constantly being starved for funds.
01:02:05 They're doing work that's actually vital to Israel's security.
01:02:08 And so it's manifestly against the interests of Israel,
01:02:14 and it's against our own interests to see the PA undermined
01:02:18 in the fashion that some are attempting to undermine it.
01:02:21 Second, in terms of governance going forward,
01:02:25 it's imperative that not only the conflict in Gaza end as soon as possible,
01:02:32 but that Israel come forward with a clear plan for how Gaza is going to be governed, secured, redeveloped,
01:02:40 because the trajectory we're on right now in the absence of such a plan
01:02:44 is either Israel stays and occupies Gaza, which is unacceptable to us
01:02:50 and should be unacceptable to them because they'll be inheriting an insurgency
01:02:54 that will bleed them for a long time,
01:02:57 or if they're not going to do it, then Hamas will come back,
01:03:00 and we've seen already in areas that have been cleared in quotation marks by Israel,
01:03:05 the return in some cases of Hamas,
01:03:07 or you'll simply have anarchy, lawlessness, which we see in most parts of Gaza right now,
01:03:12 and that eventually will be filled almost certainly by something bad,
01:03:16 even worse than the lawlessness.
01:03:18 So there's an imperative, an absolute imperative for that.
01:03:21 We believe strongly that, of course, Palestinians must be governing themselves,
01:03:25 whether it's in Gaza, whether it's the West Bank,
01:03:27 and whether it's ultimately, of course, in a Palestinian state.
01:03:30 And right now, for all of its deficiencies and challenges,
01:03:34 the Palestinian Authority is the best vehicle for that.
01:03:38 They have a new prime minister.
01:03:40 They have a new government.
01:03:42 They have a reform plan which needs to be implemented.
01:03:44 In our own engagements with the prime minister,
01:03:46 he struck us as someone who is serious and focused on actually trying to reform the PA,
01:03:50 so it's responsive to the needs of people and that it roots out corruption.
01:03:55 But, of course, if it has no resources to work with, it's going to be impossible to do the job.
01:04:00 So we are at this constantly,
01:04:02 including trying to make sure that the revenues that the PA is entitled to actually get to the PA.
01:04:08 Thank you.
01:04:10 And I do think this is sort of the last gasp the coming year for a two-state solution,
01:04:15 and it's going to require strong U.S. leadership.
01:04:18 Thank you.
01:04:19 Thank you, sir.
01:04:20 Senator Schatz.
01:04:24 Thank you, Chairman.
01:04:25 Thank you, Secretary.
01:04:26 I want to follow up on Senator Van Hollen's line of questioning.
01:04:29 The Israel's defense minister called on Prime Minister Netanyahu to, quote,
01:04:34 "make a decision and declare that Israel will not establish civilian control or military governance in Gaza,"
01:04:40 and that, quote, "a governing alternative to Hamas in the Gaza Strip be raised immediately."
01:04:45 Can you comment on that?
01:04:47 We agree with what the defense minister has said and other members of the cabinet have said,
01:04:54 and it's just as I said, in the absence of such a plan,
01:04:58 the trajectory is very negative in terms of Israel's own interests.
01:05:04 So it's imperative that we see that.
01:05:06 Now, we've not been standing still.
01:05:08 We have been working very, very intently with many Arab partners over the last three months,
01:05:14 four months, on developing possible plans for Gaza, for post-conflict Gaza,
01:05:19 because we also see that as a means of speeding the end to the conflict,
01:05:22 which we very much want to see as soon as possible so that the suffering of people stops.
01:05:28 Now, of course – and it's unfortunate – more than unfortunate, this has gotten lost in the conversation.
01:05:34 Hamas could have arranged that – for that on day one by surrendering, giving up the hostages,
01:05:40 putting down its arms, stop hiding behind people and using them as human shields.
01:05:45 Of course, it's not done that.
01:05:47 And the fact that there's been virtual silence on that these many months also is deeply unfortunate.
01:05:52 But it's imperative that there be a clear plan and that Israel's ready to move on.
01:06:00 Otherwise, we're going to wind up exactly where I described to Senator Van Hollen.
01:06:04 Yeah, that's right. I mean, no decision is a decision, right?
01:06:07 Sort of sandbagging this ends us inevitably in a place where there are no two states
01:06:14 and there is some version of chaos.
01:06:16 But I'm glad you said that about Hamas because I do think that one of the things that members of this committee,
01:06:21 members of Congress, even in American society, go straight to is that we do criticize Israel,
01:06:26 and I think they are worthy of criticism.
01:06:29 But one of the reasons we criticize Israel is because they will listen sometimes.
01:06:33 And it is not common for a member of Congress to criticize Hamas,
01:06:38 and it's not like Sinwar is like reading a statement worried about whether or not they're in good standing with the American public.
01:06:45 And so I do think it is worth reiterating that without a partner for peace, it's going to be incredibly difficult.
01:06:55 I want to pursue the question of normalization.
01:06:58 You've talked to Senator Graham and others about where we are.
01:07:01 It seems to me that we have many of the partners ready to go, and the prime minister is the sort of last piece of that.
01:07:09 Is that a fair characterization of where we are?
01:07:11 Well, look, in fairness, we've had a lot of work to do to try to get as close to final as possible agreements on normalization
01:07:19 between us and Saudi Arabia that are part of this – that would be part of this arrangement.
01:07:23 And of course, those are agreements, if we reach them in principle, that we will bring to Congress.
01:07:28 But I think we're at a point now where those agreements are very much within reach, very close reach.
01:07:34 And that suddenly turns what's been a theoretical or a hypothetical into an actual question.
01:07:39 I guess the question I'm trying to figure out is when you talk about how sort of vanishingly close,
01:07:45 and that's what the public reporting has been, is that things are actually going reasonably well in the kind of bilat piece.
01:07:51 The problem is that this is not a bilateral negotiation.
01:07:55 So where are we with that?
01:07:57 So I think my point is this.
01:08:00 From – for Israel, in talking about this, till now it's been a sort of theoretical or hypothetical conversation.
01:08:09 Assuming we reach conclusion on these agreements with Saudi Arabia, all of a sudden that becomes a real question.
01:08:15 We're, in effect, calling the question.
01:08:17 And I can't tell you what the answer will be, but actually having to answer the question
01:08:21 as opposed to answering something that might happen is a very different thing.
01:08:25 I can't tell you whether Israel, whether it's the prime minister or the country as a whole,
01:08:31 is prepared to do in this moment what would be necessary to actually realize normalization,
01:08:37 because that requires an end to Gaza and it requires a credible pathway to a Palestinian state.
01:08:42 Are they able and willing to do that in this moment?
01:08:44 I don't know.
01:08:45 But until you actually pose the question in a concrete way, we're not going to find out.
01:08:49 I want to go back to the humanitarian aid question and the sort of throughput of the various crossings
01:08:56 and the pier and all the rest of it.
01:08:58 We all know we want more.
01:08:59 We all know that we're dissatisfied with both Hamas and IDF and the Israeli government on the throughput.
01:09:08 My question is rather specific.
01:09:12 Where are we on numbers?
01:09:14 How close are we to a sort of steady state of obviously still not a good situation but alleviating suffering?
01:09:21 I know there was a number thrown around between 500 and 600 trucks.
01:09:25 You know, these crossings get open.
01:09:27 The numbers are getting fuzzy so that all we do is sort of point our finger in the air and say,
01:09:32 "You ought to do more."
01:09:33 How much more do we need to accomplish and what specifically needs to happen in order to accomplish that?
01:09:38 I think, Senator, the challenge is twofold.
01:09:40 First, we tend to get fixated on the number of trucks.
01:09:42 That's probably the wrong metric, but it's an input metric at least that is visible and countable.
01:09:48 But what we really need to be focused on is this, and we are.
01:09:51 What's the actual amount of assistance, however many trucks it takes, that's getting in,
01:09:55 sufficient to meet the basic needs of the people?
01:09:59 But then not just getting in, getting distributed.
01:10:02 So, for example, we've had days where we've had 400 trucks get to the crossing,
01:10:07 but then there's nothing effective on the receiving end to pick them up and take them out and about in Gaza.
01:10:14 Or there is, but then something gets bogged down because there is a deconfliction problem
01:10:19 and trucks get stuck at checkpoints.
01:10:21 That's one piece.
01:10:22 The other piece, very quickly, is this.
01:10:24 It's not just as central as it is the food.
01:10:28 It's the water system.
01:10:30 It's sanitation.
01:10:31 It's medical supplies.
01:10:32 We've gotten repairs done to now two of the three major pipelines that go from Israel into Gaza.
01:10:41 Now, the second challenge was the distribution network inside of Gaza had been heavily damaged,
01:10:47 so we needed to get that repaired.
01:10:49 And up until recently, a number of dual-use items that were necessary to do that,
01:10:55 the Israelis were holding back on,
01:10:57 because it turned out that in the past pipes, chlorine that you need for both of these things,
01:11:06 had been misused and turned into tunnels or turned into weapons.
01:11:11 But now we have agreements on those items going in so that the repairs can be made to the distribution network inside of Gaza.
01:11:18 I think the challenge for us is that, you know, look, you're right.
01:11:22 A bunch of nice trucks sort of crossing a border and ending up in a base yard somewhere,
01:11:28 not to be distributed to actual people, is missing the point,
01:11:33 and we need a logistics chain as if we're coming in for a natural or man-made disaster.
01:11:38 The challenge is that recognizing those logistical challenges
01:11:42 and recognizing how hard this is to deconflict
01:11:45 and then just to have basic sort of humanitarian infrastructure
01:11:49 that can be used as an excuse to sort of throttle the inputs and say,
01:11:53 look, we would be doing this, but these guys can't even get it to the people.
01:11:56 And so I think that we have to be careful about how we characterize these problems, very real issues.
01:12:02 I know that the Secretary of Defense had a spokesperson today saying a lot of this stuff is not even,
01:12:07 even when it crosses, doesn't get into the humans.
01:12:10 But I also think that we shouldn't use that as an,
01:12:13 or allow anyone to use it as an excuse to throttle the throughput at the borders or any of the crossings.
01:12:18 Exactly.
01:12:19 Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Secretary.
01:12:22 Thank you, Mr. Secretary.
01:12:24 If you don't mind, I'm going to ask two or three more questions.
01:12:26 Please.
01:12:27 I don't know if any of the other remaining members have any additional questions they'd like to ask before we conclude.
01:12:32 In terms of economic statecraft, the PRC is the world's largest creditor just by raw volume
01:12:38 and has grown its influence through the Belt and Road and lots of other ways of giving loans,
01:12:45 but often behind a very opaque and needlessly coercive set of terms.
01:12:53 It's increasingly important we work with like-minded governments to create alternatives.
01:12:57 And last week, this committee held a hearing with DFC, EXIM, and MCC.
01:13:03 And I just welcome your thoughts on what more we could be doing to strengthen our efforts to provide alternatives to PRC lending.
01:13:11 And the work we're doing together and the whole of government is doing together.
01:13:15 I will soon go to the Philippines in part to talk about the Luzon corridor.
01:13:19 And Chair Murray recently led a trip to Angola where we were largely looking at the Lobito corridor.
01:13:25 What more could we be doing?
01:13:27 So I think, Senator, what you're putting the spotlight on, Senator Murray's putting the spotlight on,
01:13:32 are extraordinarily positive examples of what we can do when we effectively marshal our resources,
01:13:39 both the resources of the U.S. Government so that everyone is rolling together in the same direction,
01:13:45 notably DFC along with USAID, along with the State Department, along with Commerce, Treasury, you name it.
01:13:54 Also, our ability to catalyze private sector investment, because as we were discussing earlier,
01:13:59 that really is for us the comparative advantage that we bring to the table.
01:14:03 But government is critical in particularly challenging investment environments to be able to do things,
01:14:09 to secure investments in ways that bring the private sector in,
01:14:13 and then to also do this in a way where we're working with allies and partners
01:14:19 so that we can take advantage of their own investments and focus.
01:14:25 So the President put together PGI at a G7 meeting at the beginning of the administration,
01:14:33 where we are mobilizing together resources with G7 partners to direct them at specific investment opportunities.
01:14:39 Similarly, we have this mineral securities partnership where we now have 14 countries
01:14:45 that are prepared to make coordinated investments in developing critical minerals, rare earths,
01:14:55 and to match them up with countries that have these things,
01:15:01 and to do that in a coordinated way where we get a much bigger impact
01:15:05 because we're managing to get other governments, other companies, other countries working with us.
01:15:11 So Luzon's a really good example of what we're doing, in this case mostly bilaterally with the Philippines.
01:15:17 We're – it's the first PGI project in the Indo-Pacific.
01:15:22 We have Subic Bay, we have Clark, we have Manila, we have Balangas.
01:15:28 These are economic hubs that are all being joined with, in effect, an infrastructure corridor,
01:15:33 rail, port modernization, agribusiness, semiconductor supply chains.
01:15:38 And then the Project the Libido Corridor, which I saw as well, is truly extraordinary,
01:15:44 where you now have the infrastructure starting to come in place, linking Angola, Zambia, the DRC,
01:15:53 right across the continent in ways that are creating tremendous efficiencies
01:15:57 but that are in the same corridor bringing together the transportation, primarily rail,
01:16:02 the communications, the agribusiness, all of that coming together in ways
01:16:07 that are benefiting the communities along that corridor and that are moving things
01:16:12 much more efficiently and more effectively than ever before when it's fully realized.
01:16:16 So for us, having the tools to start these projects, obviously the diplomatic resources to go around and about,
01:16:27 identify them, bring countries together on them, bring the private sector in,
01:16:31 the tools then to finance not the full projects but, for example, the feasibility studies,
01:16:38 delivering government capacity to the host governments to be able to manage them on their side.
01:16:44 All of these things are critical to their actual realization,
01:16:46 and that's where things like our own budget, DFC, is essential.
01:16:51 Thank you.
01:16:52 You've been doing this work a lot longer than I have, but one of the things I've noticed in,
01:16:56 I guess, 14 years now of going and visiting posts and asking foreign service officers about their work-life balance,
01:17:04 their experience, their career, knowledge transfer, it's completely understandable that there's a structure whereby,
01:17:13 partly because of needing to move on to the next post, partly because of family and school schedules,
01:17:20 often someone will be at a post two or even three years, build a lot of relationships, connections,
01:17:26 and have the best of intentions to write a very long and detailed memo and leave behind all sorts of numbers and pictures,
01:17:32 but they end up leaving, and then their successor at post arrives weeks later, and there is not a warm handoff.
01:17:39 And particularly in cultures where personal relationships matter,
01:17:44 and saying the sorts of things that you might not want to write down about,
01:17:48 you can really trust this person, you really can't trust that person.
01:17:51 I'd just be interested in what you think we might be able to do together to provide more resources
01:17:56 and strengthen the ability within the department for there to be engagement from the departing officer to the incoming officer.
01:18:05 I would think in the age of Zoom and social media platforms and iPhones,
01:18:11 it would be easier than it may have been in decades past.
01:18:14 But as we're about to take up the state authorization bill, I wondered what your thoughts were on this topic generally and what we might be able to do.
01:18:20 Yeah, look, it's a great point, and one of the things that we hate to see is reinventing the wheel,
01:18:26 because someone's been at something for a while, they leave, the knowledge doesn't get shared effectively,
01:18:31 and then someone has to pick up from where they started.
01:18:35 So we do try to correct for that.
01:18:39 So, for example, we try to make sure that in a given embassy, if someone from one unit is leaving,
01:18:48 it's staggered with other people in that unit so that to the extent we actually have all those resources,
01:18:54 which is another question, that there is some continuity, and that if there's not overlap between the incoming and the outgoing,
01:19:00 that at least the outgoing has shared a lot of that with other folks or maybe his or her boss
01:19:09 in ways that get passed on as effectively as possible to whoever's coming in.
01:19:14 But you raise a really interesting question, which I think we should look at,
01:19:17 about whether there's more we can or should do to have some kind of more sustained connections
01:19:24 between someone who's left and has built up tremendous expertise and maybe somewhere else,
01:19:28 but whose knowledge is still essential to whoever's coming in.
01:19:32 And I want to go back and look at that because it's an interesting idea.
01:19:35 I think it would help both with the effectiveness of the incoming officer in terms of how quickly they get up to speed,
01:19:41 but also improve work satisfaction, career satisfaction for the outgoing,
01:19:47 because you spent years building these relationships, and then to feel like you now have to go on.
01:19:51 And maybe it's because I visit more posts in Africa than anywhere else, and they tend to be understaffed.
01:19:57 They tend to be stretched a little thin.
01:20:00 And this is another challenge that we're facing, which is understaffing.
01:20:04 And by the way, it's interesting. It's not just in Africa.
01:20:07 We have the critical mid-level positions, including, for example, in our European Affairs Bureau,
01:20:14 that are open and understaffed.
01:20:17 We've had two of the largest incoming classes of Foreign Service officers in a decade, which is very gratifying,
01:20:23 but it takes a while for people to work their way through to a point where they're taking on these very important positions.
01:20:28 And we do have real gaps that we're trying to rectify.
01:20:31 Now, we've got new authorities also to bring in people mid-career.
01:20:36 That's helped.
01:20:38 But ultimately, we have to have a department that not only continues to attract the talent,
01:20:42 but that retains it and supports it as it goes up the ladder in these jobs.
01:20:48 That's something I'm passionate about, supporting you and helping you achieve.
01:20:52 Last question, promise.
01:20:54 The Global Fragility Act, we've talked about it a number of times.
01:20:57 It was signed into law back in 2019.
01:21:00 I've talked to the Secretary of Defense about it.
01:21:02 Earlier today, I talked to the Secretary of the Army and Chief of Staff about it.
01:21:05 Bluntly, it's a lack of involvement by the Department of Defense that concerns me most.
01:21:11 State Department has the lead.
01:21:12 AID has been a good partner.
01:21:14 There's a number of identified countries for implementation that I think are outside the mandate of the act.
01:21:20 But at the very least, Papua New Guinea, Mozambique, coastal West Africa strike me as great examples of where
01:21:27 we should be able to demonstrate a strategy that is state-led, AID partner, DOD partner,
01:21:33 with a common agenda, common priority to prevent fragile states from becoming failed states.
01:21:39 I just would be interested in how you see the State Department's efforts in ensuring
01:21:44 we actually can move ahead with meaningful implementation.
01:21:47 Yeah, look, I think – I've got to tell you, I think the importance of the act and
01:21:51 actually implementing it effectively has only been reinforced by what we've seen in the Sahel,
01:21:55 which is – the countries, of course, are not part of the act, but countries adjacent
01:21:59 to the Sahel, the ones you've – in some cases, the ones you've cited, are.
01:22:03 And it just reinforces the fact that whatever we're doing in terms of security assistance
01:22:07 to countries, that may be necessary, but it is certainly not sufficient in allowing these
01:22:13 countries not only to remain stable but actually to move forward.
01:22:16 And in the absence of that, then you're likely to see what we've seen in the Sahel,
01:22:20 which is coup after coup.
01:22:22 And at the same time, when these coups happen and our military, which may have been helping
01:22:29 deal with violent extremism and terrorism, leave, we know what comes in typically afterward,
01:22:35 including, for example, Russian proxy forces, make things worse, not better.
01:22:40 And so countries find out the hard way that this is not a good development.
01:22:44 But I think it just places an emphasis on trying to make this work and work effectively.
01:22:49 We are reviewing on a yearly basis how this is working.
01:22:56 We're assessing the different commitments that partners have made to it, the availability
01:23:01 of resources, the actual status of the program so that we are in real time judging whether
01:23:06 is it – are we actually doing this, is it being implemented or not effectively, is it
01:23:11 – even though these are, of course, 10-year programs, are we starting to see movement
01:23:17 and progress, and we'll be sharing our own thoughts on that.
01:23:22 I think it has helped us leverage multidonor mechanisms to some extent.
01:23:29 We need to do more of that.
01:23:31 I think it has helped us start at least to more effectively align assistance across the
01:23:36 government, which was one of the big intents, but it's not yet where it needs to be in
01:23:41 terms of implementation.
01:23:42 So here again, given your leadership on this, this is something we should really work on,
01:23:46 and I think the Sahel has just reinforced the importance of it.
01:23:49 MR KONDIK: My core concern is the DOD doesn't really focus or respond until there's a
01:23:55 profound security crisis, and then when they do, they tend to respond massively.
01:24:00 And Coastal West Africa, their national leadership has been here repeatedly.
01:24:07 Some of our leaders have been there, and they are calling and calling and calling for more
01:24:12 significant partnership.
01:24:14 And I think if we fail to deliver on that, we'll be disappointed at the choices they
01:24:18 may make.
01:24:20 I am, in closing, grateful that we are hosting President Ruto this week for what I think
01:24:26 is an important state visit.
01:24:29 You and the Vice President, obviously the President, and many other Cabinet officials,
01:24:33 some congressional leaders, I think it's important for us to highlight the centrality of partners
01:24:39 that are democracies that share both economic and public health and climate and security
01:24:44 goals.
01:24:45 So thank you for everything.
01:24:46 MR RUTO: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
01:24:47 MR KONDIK: Mr. Secretary, thank you for what has been a very full day for you of testimony
01:24:50 before two committees.
01:24:51 I appreciate your service.
01:24:53 And with that, the record will stay open one week for any member of the committee who wants
01:24:58 to submit a question for the record.
01:25:00 Otherwise, this hearing is hereby adjourned.
01:25:03 Thank you.
01:25:04 (End of recorded material.)
01:25:05 (End of recorded material.)
01:25:06 (End of recorded material.)
01:25:07 (End of recorded material.)
01:25:08 (End of recorded material.)
01:25:09 (End of recorded material.)
01:25:10 (End of recorded material.)
01:25:11 (End of recorded material.)
01:25:11 [BLANK_AUDIO]

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Raul Ruiz Asked Point Blank: 'What's Your Position On Gain Of Function Research?'
Forbes Breaking News
3:56
Top Dem Defends 6-Foot Social Distancing After Bombshell Fauci Admission It 'Wasn't Based On Data'
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0:33
AOC: 'Patently Unproductive' To Have Israel's Netanyahu Address Congress
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14:50
Chuck Grassley Calls Out Hillary Clinton & Crossfire Hurricane In Response To Trump Guilty Verdict
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14:38
'We Should've Been Honest': Brad Wenstrup Confronts Fauci Over His Handling Of COVID-19 Pandemic
Forbes Breaking News
2:26
JUST IN: Hunter Biden Arrives At Wilmington, Delaware, Federal Court For Hearing In His Gun Trial
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31:46
BREAKING NEWS: Speaker Johnson, House GOP Leaders Rip 'Sham Trial' That Led To Trump Guilty Verdict
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13:33
Bernie Sanders Slams 'Netanyahu And His Extremist Government' After Biden Announces Ceasefire Deal
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7:08
BREAKING NEWS: Matt Gaetz Directly Confronts Merrick Garland About 'Lawfare Against Trump'
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1:19
BREAKING NEWS: First Lady Dr. Jill Biden Arrives At Federal Court For Hunter Biden’s Gun Trial
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4:01
'I Know Where You're Going': Fauci Grilled By GOP's Lawyer About Gain-Of-Function Research
Forbes Breaking News
31:31
WATCH: GOP Lawyer Spends Half An Hour Questioning Dr. Fauci About Vaccine Mandates, 6-Foot Rule
Forbes Breaking News
2:22
Dr. Fauci Asked Point Blank About How 6-Foot Social Distancing Rule Came About
Forbes Breaking News
1:10
Marjorie Taylor Greene Says Funding Government 'Does Not Matter' After Trump Guilty Verdict
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1:07
VIRAL MOMENT: John Rose’s Son Steals The Show Making Funny Faces Behind Dad’s House Floor Speech
Forbes Breaking News
7:42
JUST IN: Senate Democrats Warn Of Threats To Reproductive Rights After Dobbs Decision
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11:28
'Enormously Disappointed': Chrissy Houlahan Fires Back At Beth Van Duyne Over Abortion Amendment
Forbes Breaking News
1:19
JUST IN: Famed Sex Therapist, Dr. Ruth Westheimer, Dies At 96
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4:05
Political Scientist Reveals Issues In Minnesota Under Gov. Tim Walz
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7:25
‘SBA Has Failed To Substantially Produce Documents’: Beth Van Duyne Presses Offical On Delay
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