• 7 months ago
The House Homeland Security held a hearing on Wednesday on how Congress can support law enforcement.

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Transcript
00:00:00 We've come to order without objection. The chair may declare the committee in recess at any point.
00:00:04 Before we begin today's hearing, I would like to take a moment to recognize
00:00:08 the loss of our dear friend to all on this committee, Congressman Donald Payne, Jr.
00:00:15 Congressman Payne was a fierce advocate for the people of New Jersey's 10th District.
00:00:19 His legacy, along with his father's legacy, will serve as a reminder to us all of what it means
00:00:25 to be a true public servant. I really appreciated the time that I got to work with Congressman Payne
00:00:31 on the colorectal cancer caucus. He was a fierce fighter against that disease. I now recognize,
00:00:40 for a moment, the ranking member, ranking member Thompson, to honor the life and legacy
00:00:47 of Representative Payne. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. This morning we remember the life of
00:00:54 Congressman Donald M. Payne, Jr., our colleague and friend. He was a union worker, a toll collector.
00:01:01 He literally kept the buses of Essex County, New Jersey, running on time. He was an
00:01:08 Essex County freeholder, a New York City Council member, a City Council president.
00:01:16 He was a congressman, a statesman, a son, father, brother, and a husband. With a kind heart,
00:01:24 a closet full of bow ties, and a wit as sharp as his suits, Congressman Payne brought people
00:01:32 together. But he also fought for what he believed in. He gave a voice to the voiceless. He never
00:01:39 wavered. He never backed down. While we mourn the loss of our colleague and friend, we know his
00:01:46 legacy lives on. Congressman Payne's legacy lives on the work he did in Congress, including right
00:01:53 here in this committee, to make every child and every school in America safe. Because of Congressman
00:02:01 Payne's advocacy, the Department of Homeland Security today reports to Congress on school
00:02:08 security. Because of a law he authored, amply named the Homeland Security for Children Act,
00:02:15 the Department of Homeland Security must plan for children's unique needs during disasters.
00:02:20 His legacy lives on in the hearts of his wife, Bea, and it lives on in the bright futures of
00:02:28 his children, the triplets, Donald, Jack, and Yvonne. We pray for their peace and comfort
00:02:35 at this difficult time. Congressman Payne served in Washington, D.C., but his heart never left
00:02:42 Newark's South Ward. Every moment he spent in the halls of Congress was in service to the people of
00:02:49 Newark. Congressman Donald Payne, Jr. leaves a legacy to be proud of. May he rest in power
00:02:57 and rest in peace. I yield back. I ask that the members of this committee join me in observing
00:03:04 a moment of silence to honor Congressman Payne's memory.
00:03:09 [Silence]
00:03:38 Thank you. The purpose of our hearing today is to receive testimony from state and local
00:03:46 law enforcement officers and the hurdles that their law enforcement agencies face in keeping
00:03:51 our communities safe. I now recognize myself for an opening statement. Good morning. We're here
00:03:58 today to honor and recognize law enforcement officers nationwide during National Police Week.
00:04:03 While our nation has always been grateful to our men and women in law enforcement,
00:04:07 beginning in 1962, we officially began recognizing their bravery, sacrifice,
00:04:12 and unwavering commitment to public safety on the 15th of May. Supporting our men and women
00:04:19 in law enforcement should not be reserved for one week out of the year. Our nation should be
00:04:23 grateful every day to this unique group of men and women who risk their lives for our freedom
00:04:29 and who serve our communities with a distinct sense of duty and honor. There's a saying that
00:04:35 "service is the rent we pay for living on earth." Our men and women who protect us daily pay the
00:04:41 ultimate service and, for far too many, the ultimate sacrifice. Last year, 136 law enforcement
00:04:48 officers were tragically killed in the line of duty. This year, there's been 56 and countless
00:04:54 others injured. Just a few weeks ago, April 16th, Police Officer Michael Jensen of the Syracuse
00:05:00 Police Department and Lieutenant Houssak of the Onondaga County Sheriff's Office in New York were
00:05:09 both shot and killed while attempting to locate a subject who had led officers on a vehicle pursuit.
00:05:14 Officer Jensen had served with the Syracuse Police Department two and a half years,
00:05:19 and he has survived by his parents and sister. Lieutenant Houssak served with the County
00:05:25 Sheriff's Office for 16 years. He has survived by his wife and three children. I know for them
00:05:31 and their colleagues, this loss is incomprehensible. In early May, four law enforcement officers were
00:05:38 killed in Charlotte, North Carolina, while attempting to serve a warrant to a convicted
00:05:42 felon, and four more were injured. A former Durham-based Marshals Service Task Force officer
00:05:48 stated that he cannot remember another time in his 35-year career when eight officers were attacked
00:05:54 in one incident. From violent attacks on law enforcement to significant increase in crime
00:06:00 across the country, it is an understatement to say that Americans no longer feel safe in their
00:06:05 communities. We must provide reassurance to law-abiding citizens by holding lawbreakers
00:06:12 accountable and let the level of accountability serve as a deterrence to others. Tough prosecutions
00:06:18 and proper sentencing are not only examples of holding criminals accountable for their actions,
00:06:23 but they send a message that federal, state, and local jurisdictions will do what is necessary to
00:06:28 protect their citizens. Even more important, this action will communicate to our law enforcement
00:06:33 officers our appreciation and our commitment to equipping them with the resources required
00:06:39 to fulfill their duties. Increasing crime rates and obstacles to prosecuting criminals
00:06:44 are challenging enough, but dealing with these difficulties without adequate manpower and funding
00:06:50 adds to the burden that law enforcement agencies across the nation are confronting.
00:06:54 Law enforcement agencies are not only grappling with unprecedented challenges in
00:06:59 recruiting new personnel, but are also contending with attrition rates and budget reductions.
00:07:03 These factors hinder law enforcement agencies' ability to fulfill their obligation to safeguard
00:07:10 Americans and obstruct police departments nationwide from assessing the necessary resources
00:07:17 to enhance their officer training. In so doing, these factors also increase the risk to the men
00:07:23 and women of blue or in blue who risk all for us every day. By reducing law enforcement budgets,
00:07:31 police departments will face the tough decision of either lowering standards or being unable to
00:07:36 fulfill their hiring requirements. This committee plays a critical role in overseeing the Department
00:07:41 of Homeland Security, which aims to assist state, local, and tribal and territorial law enforcement
00:07:46 agencies in ensuring the safety, security, and resilience of our communities. We continue to
00:07:52 focus on ensuring that information is efficiently shared between the federal government and state
00:07:56 and local law enforcement agencies to combat the wide variety of threats from criminals and
00:08:01 terrorists. Different parts of our country have their own unique challenges when it comes to
00:08:06 dealing with crime. It is important that we ensure that DHS is properly supporting both metropolitan
00:08:12 and rural communities as they confront these challenges. Today, I hope we can examine the
00:08:18 ways that DHS supports these law enforcement agencies and identify new ways to improve.
00:08:23 We should all work to ensure that the resources provided by DHS are effective in assisting law
00:08:29 enforcement as they work to carry out their important mission. Lastly, it is crucial that
00:08:34 as a nation we regain a sense of appreciation and respect for the men and women in law enforcement
00:08:39 who serve our communities and who pay the ultimate sacrifice for our protections.
00:08:43 We have a distinguished panel of witnesses to testify about the daily challenges,
00:08:47 successes, and strategies their officers encounter in dealing with various issues within their
00:08:53 departments and communities. Thank you again to our witnesses for being here this morning,
00:08:57 and I look forward to this important discussion. Before I recognize the ranking member for his
00:09:02 opening statement, I would like to welcome Mr. Kennedy from New York to Congress and to our
00:09:08 committee. I look forward to working with you, and I will say that your addition here takes us
00:09:13 to seven members from New York. I think you're now 21 percent of this committee, so
00:09:18 not sure what that means, but we're glad to have you. It actually, as Ramin, you know, reflects
00:09:27 back to the start of this committee and really what started it all, so we're very glad to have
00:09:34 you. I now recognize the ranking member, the gentleman from Mississippi, Mr. Thompson, for
00:09:38 his opening statement. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank our panel of witnesses for being
00:09:44 here today and for their service to our country. In honor of National Police Week, I also want to
00:09:51 recognize the incredible contributions of law enforcement and honor those brave officers who
00:09:57 made the ultimate sacrifice to keep our communities safe. Our nation is forever in their debt. Today,
00:10:05 the committee is meeting to examine how Congress can support state and local law enforcement.
00:10:10 This is an important question. National Police Week is of great importance, but congressional
00:10:17 support for law enforcement is about more than attending a ceremony or wearing a blue ribbon
00:10:23 on your lapel one week out of the year. It's about supporting law enforcement, not just
00:10:29 where ceremonial words are symbolic gestures, but showing up when it counts and voting for
00:10:36 the resources our police officers need every day. It's about saying no when a disgraced former
00:10:43 president calls for defunding the FBI or certain members threaten to cut off funding for DHS
00:10:51 because they have political disagreements with the Biden administration. It's about keeping
00:10:57 dangerous weapons out of the hands of those who would seek to harm our communities, our kids,
00:11:04 our houses of worship, our supermarkets, our gathering places, and the police sworn to protect
00:11:11 all of us. And it's about honoring the heroic law enforcement officers, Capitol Police,
00:11:18 Metropolitan Police, and others who protected and defended this very Capitol and everyone in it on
00:11:26 January 6, 2021. While extreme mega-Republicans try to cut funding and undermine public trust in
00:11:34 law enforcement, Democrats are committed to providing federal, state, local, tribal,
00:11:40 and territorial law enforcement with funding and support to keep our communities safe.
00:11:46 Democrats have made historic investments in public safety, law enforcement, school security,
00:11:54 gun violence prevention, and non-profit security for churches, synagogues, and school. As a result,
00:12:01 violent crime has dropped across nearly every category during the Biden administration.
00:12:07 We're proud of doing right by law enforcement, but recognize more remains to be done. I hope to hear
00:12:15 from our witnesses today about supporting community policing efforts across the country
00:12:21 and how Congress can help fund these critical efforts. I also hope to hear from our witnesses
00:12:27 about how we can encourage police forces to recruit more diverse candidates, including people
00:12:34 of color and women, because police forces work best when they reflect the communities they serve.
00:12:41 Again, I thank the witnesses for joining us today and express my appreciation for all the men and
00:12:47 women of law enforcement who serve communities across America with honor and integrity. Be
00:12:54 assured that those words have been and will continue to be backed up by action. Before I
00:13:00 close, Mr. Chairman, I want to take a moment to welcome, as you did, a new member of our committee,
00:13:06 the gentleman from New York, Mr. Kennedy. While we have quite a few New Yorkers serving on this
00:13:14 panel, as has already been said, Mr. Kennedy is the only one that represents a district in western
00:13:22 New York. His district is located on the U.S.-Canada border and has multiple international crossings,
00:13:29 including the Peace Bridge. I know he will be actively engaged on northern border issues,
00:13:36 and we welcome it. Mr. Kennedy also recently chaired the New York State Senate's Transportation
00:13:42 Committee, which will be invaluable to his service on this committee's transportation
00:13:48 and maritime subcommittee. We welcome him and we wish you well. With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
00:13:56 Thank you, sir. Other members of the committee are reminded that opening statements may be
00:14:00 submitted for the record. I'm pleased to have an important panel of witnesses before us today,
00:14:04 and I ask that our witnesses please rise and raise their right hand.
00:14:08 Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give before the Committee on Homeland Security of
00:14:17 the United States House of Representatives will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
00:14:20 the truth? Let the record reflect that the witnesses have answered in the affirmative.
00:14:25 Thank you. You may be seated. I'd like to now formally introduce our witnesses. The Honorable
00:14:31 Gregory Mays serves as the Deputy Commissioner of Homeland Security for the Tennessee Department
00:14:35 of Safety and Homeland Security. Prior to his appointment, Mr. Hayes had a distinguished
00:14:38 career with the United States Secret Service, serving in a variety of roles that spanned a
00:14:43 25-year career. He holds a bachelor's degree from Auburn University, where he received his
00:14:48 commission as an officer in the United States Navy through the Navy ROTC program. Following
00:14:53 naval flight officer training, Mr. Mays was assigned to Patrol Squadron 5, where he was
00:14:59 designated a patrol plane mission commander and completed multiple deployments, including numerous
00:15:03 missions in support of Operation Desert Storm. Sheriff Mike Chapman was first elected Sheriff
00:15:09 of Loudoun County, Virginia, in 2011 and was re-elected to his fourth term in 2023. He directs
00:15:15 the largest full-service sheriff's office in the Commonwealth of Virginia and employs approximately
00:15:19 700 sworn deputies and 200 civilian personnel and serves a population of approximately 447,000
00:15:25 residents in an area of 519 square miles. Sheriff Chapman has been a leader in advancing proactive
00:15:31 and successful law enforcement and community engagement programs. During his tenure, major
00:15:36 crime decreased 37 percent, the greatest reduction of any jurisdiction in the Washington metropolitan
00:15:41 area. He has also successfully led efforts in addressing the heroin and, most recently,
00:15:46 fentanyl problems that have impacted Loudoun County. Mr. Michael Bullock currently serves
00:15:52 as the president of the Austin Police Association. During his time as president, he has worked to
00:15:57 address the recruiting and retention problems that have affected the Austin Police Department.
00:16:01 President Bullock is a six-year veteran of the Austin Police Department. Mr. Rodney Bryant
00:16:08 serves as the president of the National Black Law Enforcement Executives. Prior to his work with the
00:16:14 National Black Law Enforcement Executives, Mr. Bryant served 34 years in the Atlanta Police
00:16:18 Department. During his career, he climbed the ranks serving as a patrol officer, senior police,
00:16:23 sergeant, lieutenant, assistant commander, and major. Highlights of his career include leading
00:16:28 the command of the college football playoff championship in 2018 and Super Bowl 53 in 2019.
00:16:36 He retired in 2022 as the 25th chief of the department. I thank all the witnesses for
00:16:42 being here today and I now recognize Deputy Commissioner Mays for five minutes to summarize
00:16:46 his opening statement. Thank you Chairman Green and Ranking Member Thompson for holding this hearing
00:16:55 and for the invitation to testify with my fellow law enforcement leaders on some of the critical
00:17:00 law enforcement and security issues facing the American homeland. The Tennessee Office of Homeland
00:17:06 Security is a law enforcement agency with statewide jurisdiction. Our primary mission is to investigate
00:17:12 threats to life, threats to our schools, to protect our state's critical infrastructure and major
00:17:18 events, and to work with our federal, state, and local partners to prepare for and mitigate any
00:17:24 threat to our state. Our department's overall mission is to serve, secure, and protect the
00:17:29 people of Tennessee. We set about every day to accomplish that mission. As we gather here today
00:17:37 during National Police Week to honor the fallen police officers across our nation, it's also a
00:17:41 time for us to discuss or to focus on the challenges faced by local law enforcement and the threats to
00:17:47 our homeland. My testimony will focus on three areas to highlight some successes and challenges
00:17:53 and I thank you again for the opportunity to be here. I would like to start with security in our
00:17:58 schools. On March 27, 2023, Nashville was rocked by a shooting at the Covenant School. Three children
00:18:07 and three adults lost their lives in addition to the shooter who was killed by police while she was
00:18:12 still shooting at arriving officers from a second-story window of the school. This shooting
00:18:18 so close to home further steeled our resolve to do everything we can to prevent something similar
00:18:23 from happening again. We approach school security in Tennessee by focusing on three main areas.
00:18:29 Physical security, door locks, etc. Sometimes the simple solutions are the best.
00:18:35 Secondly, we must have proper response and training so that our officers
00:18:41 respond properly just as the Metro Nashville Police Department did at the Covenant shooting.
00:18:46 And third, perhaps the most complex, we must investigate every credible threat and evaluate
00:18:53 the subject's capability and intent to act violently. Research such as the U.S. Secret
00:18:59 Service's National Threat Assessment Center study published in 2021 titled "Averting Targeted School
00:19:05 Violence" looked at 67 different averted school attacks. 94% of the school shooters told somebody
00:19:13 they were going to do it. The other 6% in that study were behaving so oddly that someone else
00:19:19 reported them. So we can take away from that that in all of all cases we, the collective community,
00:19:27 need to have our ears turned and be listening and then respond when threats come to our schools.
00:19:31 We encourage this type of reporting and the Tennessee Office of Homeland Security operates
00:19:39 a 24/7 threat desk. We are, since the start of this school year, we have received approximately
00:19:49 322 threats to Tennessee schools. That amounts to a little over one threat to a Tennessee school
00:19:55 every day. In the interest of time here, I'd like to pivot now to the subject of grants.
00:20:02 Tennessee has benefited greatly from our federal Homeland Security grant program. Funding for these
00:20:08 state and territorial preparedness grants has dropped 44% since FY 2010, with a 10% cut alone
00:20:16 in FY 24. We rely on these programs, state and local law enforcement do, and these grant programs
00:20:24 save lives. As an example, on July 31st, 2023, a suspect attempted to gain entry to the Margolin
00:20:32 Hebrew Academy in Memphis with the apparent intent to kill those inside this Jewish school.
00:20:37 After unsuccessful attempts to gain entry through locked doors, the subject fired shots outside the
00:20:44 school and fled. He was encountered by police a short distance away, was taken into custody after
00:20:51 brandishing a weapon. The school credited the recent security upgrades as saving lives.
00:20:58 They wrote a letter to my office, and I want to read just a couple of sentences from it.
00:21:03 Quote, "The implementation of the latest security grant," he's talking about the non-profit security
00:21:10 grant from DHS, "The implementation of the latest security grant allowed us to reinforce our
00:21:15 entrances with new doors and access control, ultimately preventing the shooter from gaining
00:21:20 entry. Additionally, the cameras installed from the previous grant played a pivotal role
00:21:26 in assisting law enforcement in locating and neutralizing the shooter swiftly."
00:21:30 Again, these grant funds save lives, and as federal funding for these programs decline,
00:21:37 the needs are increasing. In Tennessee, we do not rely just on federal funding for the non-profit
00:21:45 grants. We have a state-funded program, and as an illustration of how much of a need there is,
00:21:55 last year we received $2.2 million in requests, and far outstripping the $750,000 in state funds
00:22:03 that I had to award. And in the interest of time, sir, I'll conclude my testimony there. Thank you.
00:22:09 Thank you. I now recognize Sheriff Chapman. Thank you, sir.
00:22:14 Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, and members of the committee. My name is Mike Chapman.
00:22:21 I'm the elected sheriff of Loudoun County, Virginia. I appreciate being invited to testify
00:22:26 at this important hearing during this one of the most important weeks of the year for law enforcement.
00:22:31 Loudoun County sits about 30 miles southwest of Washington, D.C., and is home to about 450,000
00:22:36 residents. I am in my 46th year of law enforcement, having served as a police officer and detective in
00:22:41 Maryland, 23 years as a drug enforcement administration, as a special agent from coast
00:22:46 to coast, and in three foreign assignments, and over 12 years as an elected sheriff of Virginia's
00:22:51 largest full-service sheriff's office, employing close to 900. Prior to being elected sheriff,
00:22:56 I served three years as a law enforcement subject matter expert with Booz Allen. I bring firsthand
00:23:02 knowledge of police work, federal experience, a private sector perspective, and the complexities
00:23:07 associated with the elected office of sheriff. I'm here today on behalf of the National Sheriff's
00:23:13 Association and serve as its sheriff for Homeland Security and on its board of directors.
00:23:18 I'd like to address today's hearing, "Standing Strong with the Thin Blue Line, How Congress Can
00:23:22 Support State and Local Law Enforcement." Historically and currently, law enforcement
00:23:28 collaborates well together, regardless if it is the sheriff's office or police department.
00:23:32 When national law enforcement organizations collectively present their concerns and
00:23:36 positions, whether in support or opposition to legislation, Congress needs to listen.
00:23:41 Congress's decision can significantly impede law enforcement service performance investigations
00:23:47 or even recruiting. Supplying grant money or funding is not the cure-all. Backing from Congress
00:23:54 in all aspects is essential. This is National Police Week as America honors the day-to-day
00:24:01 service and sacrifice of our law enforcement community. And on this day, Peace Officer
00:24:07 Memorial Day, we honor those who have given their lives in the line of duty. This year,
00:24:11 we have already witnessed 58 line-of-duty deaths among law enforcement officers, with 23 of those
00:24:18 by gunfire. Our job is dangerous, and we need to help and serve and protect our communities
00:24:24 and ourselves. We ask that you recognize how law enforcement has and continues to raise the bar.
00:24:30 The progress that I have witnessed since I was hired to be a police officer back in 1978
00:24:35 when it comes to training, professionalism, innovation, and best practices is nothing
00:24:40 short of amazing. It is important that you recognize the progress and publicly show
00:24:45 your support for our profession. It is also important that you listen so that you can help
00:24:52 us do our jobs better. Let's start with intelligence gathering and police response.
00:24:57 Currently, there are 80 state or locally run fusion centers in 50 states and U.S. territories.
00:25:03 They receive federal grant funding, which accounts for about one-third of the cost of operation.
00:25:10 There is also federal, state, and local coordination through six strategically placed
00:25:14 regional information systems risk centers across the U.S. Considering that local law
00:25:20 enforcement are the boots on the ground, it is critical that federal information flows
00:25:25 quickly in our direction, even if the information is incomplete. The responsibility for this
00:25:30 communication and coordination primarily falls under the Department of Homeland Security
00:25:35 Intelligence and Analysis, INA, and is the only federal entity that is statutorily required to
00:25:44 coordinate Homeland Security threat information sharing with state and local law enforcement
00:25:49 governments throughout fusion centers. Congress should ensure that INA is equipped and empowered
00:25:55 to carry out that mission effectively. In Loudon County, I experienced a personal case study with
00:26:00 DHS regarding poor communication, both laterally and with other federal agencies, and onward to
00:26:05 state and local agencies. In February of 2022, I was made aware of some 1,000 evacuees from
00:26:12 Afghanistan that would be arriving in Loudon County in two weeks as part of Operation Allies
00:26:17 Welcome, following the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan. This would be the first wave
00:26:23 during a six-month period, all to be located at the National Conference Center dorm-style living
00:26:28 facility in the suburban residential area of our county, next to a middle and a high school.
00:26:33 I immediately reached out to the DHS's Chief of Staff for additional information and to question
00:26:39 their lack of notification earlier to local enforcement and our public safety partners.
00:26:44 We needed to know how well the evacuees were vetted, if the local hospital had been contacted,
00:26:50 if school personnel and community members living within walking distance
00:26:54 in that community were notified, if any houses of worship had been contacted, if language
00:27:00 capability services had been retained, and how security would be conducted. Unfortunately,
00:27:06 none of these concerns had been addressed. DHS subsequently postponed the resettlement for two
00:27:10 weeks, still not addressing these issues. I alerted the public and organized a community
00:27:16 stakeholders meeting, including dozens of agencies, which led to specific assignments
00:27:21 and a community forum that, for the most part, alleviated the apprehension of this to the
00:27:25 community. Our local initiative made a huge difference. For the next six months, potential
00:27:30 chaos was averted and there were no major public safety incidents. This extraordinary effort,
00:27:36 however, would not have been necessary had DHS communicated an organized plan. We hope that this
00:27:41 will improve in the future. Today, we face a new set of challenges on many of our college campuses
00:27:46 and cities over matters regarding the Middle East. It is critical that we receive timely
00:27:51 information from DHS to get ahead of the curve. We need your help. We need your backing. We need
00:27:56 improved communication from DHS to our local officers and deputies. Thank you again for
00:28:02 holding this hearing and for listening. Thank you, Sheriff Chapman. And I now recognize Mr.
00:28:08 Bullock for five minutes to summarize his opening statement. Chairman Green, members of the
00:28:12 committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today. My name is Michael Bullock,
00:28:17 and I'm the president of the Austin Police Association in Texas, as well as a senior
00:28:21 police officer with the Austin Police Department. I wish it were amidst better times that I sat here
00:28:26 before you today, but this somber week of honoring our fellow law enforcement officers killed in the
00:28:30 line of duty sets the tone for the state of our profession. In my view, the state of law
00:28:36 enforcement is dire. We all recognize that criminal justice as a whole is a complex policy issue
00:28:42 for which no singular solution exists. But if we continue to do nothing, the sense of lawlessness
00:28:47 being perpetuated in urban city centers and across the country will only get worse. Austin is the
00:28:53 10th largest city in the United States, with a million people living in the capital of Texas.
00:28:58 Despite this, we don't even make the top 25 list when it comes to staffing. We are 700 officers
00:29:05 short of where studies done by the city of Austin have shown we need to be. Our staffing issues can
00:29:11 be linked to a few key events, though our struggles are shared by agencies all across the country.
00:29:16 In 2017, the Austin City Council unanimously voted against a contract with the Austin Police
00:29:21 Association, which governs the wages, benefits, and working conditions of the men and women of
00:29:26 the Austin Police Department. As a result, beginning in 2018, we have had more officers
00:29:32 leave our department each year than have joined. Compounding this problem in 2020 was when our city
00:29:37 leaders defunded our department by $150 million, cut 150 authorized positions, and canceled cadet
00:29:45 classes, all for the sake of political posturing. Our staffing has been in a freefall that's led us
00:29:50 to a vacancy rate of over 30 percent. Little surprise then that after these decisions and an
00:29:56 exodus from the department began, that a year later our number of homicides nearly doubled.
00:30:01 The last three years have been the highest homicide numbers in Austin's history.
00:30:07 Though we are not a border city, the impact of immigration policies is felt by us as well.
00:30:11 Our city has asked for help from the Texas state troopers who came for a time and had a notable
00:30:17 impact on crime by increasing patrol presence. But due to the ongoing border crisis, they were
00:30:22 called away to help secure the Texas border and no longer able to help us in Austin. As a result,
00:30:28 in May of 2023, teenagers shot and killed a man in southeast Austin when attempting to rob him.
00:30:33 The reason they gave for this heinous crime was they knew state troopers had left Austin
00:30:37 and they decided to start committing crime again. Adding additional layers of complexity to this
00:30:42 issue is a lackadaisical attitude towards holding criminals accountable by judges and prosecutors,
00:30:48 while at the same time seeing those same prosecutors target officers, which in turn
00:30:53 has encouraged criminals to be increasingly violent towards law enforcement. Over these
00:30:58 same time periods, we've seen a myriad of critical incidents take place. Austin is dealt with a
00:31:03 serial bomber planting improvised explosive devices all across our city, killing our residents.
00:31:09 We've had numerous mass shootings, including one breaking out during one of our largest festivals
00:31:14 that draws people from all across the country to visit our city. And most notably on our minds
00:31:19 is an incident that took the life of one of our own. On November 11, 2023, in the early morning
00:31:25 hours, our APD SWAT team was called to a residence in southeast Austin where an armed subject was
00:31:30 barricaded inside the residence, had already stabbed one of his family members with two more
00:31:34 held hostage inside, and he had shot at officers when they had initially responded. Fearing for the
00:31:42 lives of others inside the residence and knowing this vile suspect had already attempted to kill
00:31:47 one of his own family members and willingly shot at our fellow law enforcement officers,
00:31:52 our SWAT team went through the door to try and save lives. After going in, they were met by a
00:31:57 hellacious barrage of gunfire from the suspect who was well armed and wearing body armor. While
00:32:03 the suspect was ultimately killed, it came at a high price. Two of our officers were shot,
00:32:08 one of which was Officer George Pastor, who paid the ultimate sacrifice. Across this country,
00:32:14 we now see a law enforcement officer shot in the line of duty every 21 hours. This year alone,
00:32:19 we've had over 145 officers shot, which has been increasing year over year. Our job is to uphold
00:32:27 the Constitution and enforce the laws passed by yourselves, as well as your state and local
00:32:32 counterparts. This is a charge that we take seriously and one we are willing to sacrifice
00:32:37 our lives for. I sit here before you today, though, pleading for your help. We need help in addressing
00:32:44 our staffing needs, support and enforcing our laws, providing better training resources and
00:32:50 transcending the political rhetoric to end the war on law enforcement and restore law and order in
00:32:56 our country. The trends we see in Austin are not isolated, and if not reversed, I fear that
00:33:02 lawlessness is all but inevitable. Again, thank you all for your time and for taking up this
00:33:06 important matter, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Bryant, for your testimony. I'm sorry, Mr. Bullock,
00:33:13 for your testimony. I now recognize Mr. Bryant for his five minutes, summarizes opening statement.
00:33:19 Mark Green, Ranking Member Congressman Benny Thompson and committee members, I bring you
00:33:30 greetings on behalf of the Executive Board, members and constituents of the National Organization of
00:33:37 Black Law Enforcement Executives, NOBLE. My name is Rodney Bryant and I am the National President.
00:33:44 NOBLE serves as the conscience of law enforcement by being committed to justice by action.
00:33:50 NOBLE has 58 chapters and represent over 4,500 members worldwide that consist of chief executive
00:33:59 officers, command level law enforcement officials, and federal, state, local, county law enforcement
00:34:08 agencies and criminal justice practitioners. I have served more than 35 years in law enforcement
00:34:18 profession in various positions of increasing responsibilities to include serving as a patrol
00:34:25 officer and then sending all ranks to become the 25th chief of police of the city of Atlanta.
00:34:31 It is an honor for NOBLE to provide written testimony on the topic of standing strong
00:34:37 on the thin blue line, how Congress can support local law enforcement. I would be remiss if I did
00:34:44 not recognize that this week is National Police Week, where we honor and remember those law
00:34:50 enforcement officers who have made the ultimate sacrifice in the line of duty. In 2023, approximately
00:34:59 136 officers died in the line of duty, representing a 40 percent reduction compared to 2022.
00:35:07 However, one officer is one too many. NOBLE will continue to stand vigilant and in solidarity
00:35:17 with law enforcement in an effort to reduce the statistics. We invite Congress to join us in this
00:35:25 NOBLE pursuit. On April 29th, our nation experienced the deadliest attack against U.S.
00:35:33 law enforcement officers since 2016. An AR-15 semi-automatic rifle and a 40 caliber handgun
00:35:42 were deployed in Charlotte, North Carolina, shooting that result in four law enforcement
00:35:50 officers being killed and wounding four others. I extend heartfelt prayers and condolences to the
00:35:57 officers, families, agencies, and affected communities. NOBLE is very concerned about
00:36:04 the level of gun violence in the United States and specifically the correlation between violence
00:36:09 and proliferation of assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines. It is our
00:36:15 organization's opinion that violence, particularly gun violence, is a public health issue. And with
00:36:23 all public health issues, it demands a comprehensive, non-judgmental, pragmatic,
00:36:29 evidence-based approach to saving lives and reducing injuries. A positive step toward addressing
00:36:38 the level of gun violence in our nation has taken with the passage of the Bipartisan Safer
00:36:45 Communities Act. NOBLE supported this legislation. The bill combined gun safety,
00:36:51 legislation with mental health, and school security resources. We at NOBLE recommend that
00:36:59 in addition to the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act, that Congress, the law enforcement profession,
00:37:05 and communities across this nation work to secure the passage of bipartisan legislation
00:37:12 that at minimum will address the following mandate universal background checks,
00:37:18 assault weapons, ban high-capacity magazines, and mandate safe gun storage. It is NOBLE's belief,
00:37:29 and many in our profession, that the continued relaxation of gun laws poses a real danger
00:37:35 to the law enforcement officers and the community. It is my opinion that the law enforcement
00:37:41 profession is in need of comprehensive federal legislation such as the George Floyd Justice and
00:37:48 Policing Act. NOBLE did support the Biden administration executive orders on advancing
00:37:55 effective accountable policing and criminal justice practice to enhance public trust and
00:38:02 public safety. There are key elements in the order that we feel are responsible and actionable such
00:38:09 as accountability, workforce support, use of force, and resources support for mental health
00:38:16 and behavioral health services. Our organization recommends to Congress a bipartisan effort to find
00:38:23 common ground on a very basic constitutional right within the 14th amendment, equal protection
00:38:31 under the law. For many parts of our societies, cities, citizens have not felt equally protected
00:38:39 by key American constitution, law enforcement. In many communities of color, the first names
00:38:45 of unarmed citizens that were killed by officers who took an oath to protect and serve resonate
00:38:52 today and for generations to come. Lastly, I appeal to our congressional leaders on both parties
00:39:01 to continue to support our federal law enforcement agencies in the areas of funding, public support,
00:39:07 and policies that ensure that they maintain their readiness. It is critical that federal
00:39:14 law enforcement resources are available to support state, local, county, tribal law enforcement
00:39:23 agencies. There must be a unified congressional understanding of the importance of ensuring
00:39:29 homeland security for our nation which equates to strengthening all levels of public safety.
00:39:35 On behalf of the National Organization of Law Enforcement Executives,
00:39:41 I thank you for supporting our profession and our ability to maintain public safety.
00:39:46 Our members stand ready to meet the needs of our communities and nation. Thank you again
00:39:51 for this opportunity to provide testimony. Thank you, Mr. Bryant. Members will be recognized by
00:39:58 order of seniority for their five minutes of questioning. An additional round of questioning
00:40:02 may be called after all members have been recognized. I now recognize myself for five
00:40:07 minutes of questioning. First, I'd like to start with Mr. Mays. You mentioned, I think, three
00:40:14 sort of avenues of approach, so to speak, use a military term,
00:40:21 through which you guys are working on school safety and you talk specifically about response
00:40:27 and training. Can you describe some of the training that you're talking about and the
00:40:31 net effect and where DHS and the federal government are assisting in that area?
00:40:37 Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the question. We learned as a nation, we learned after the
00:40:45 Uvalde, Texas school shooting what a bad response looked like. We know from these shootings that
00:40:54 the law enforcement needs to respond and go into the school immediately and stop the killing.
00:41:03 We saw in Nashville at the Covenant school shooting, the Metropolitan Nashville Police
00:41:08 Department officers went in immediately. It was interesting for me to find out that most of those
00:41:14 officers did not know each other and had never trained together, but yet their training in the
00:41:20 police department under Chief Drake's leadership was so good that if you watch the body camera
00:41:26 video, it looks like they train together every day. Training works and the procedures that needed
00:41:33 to need to be in place are now pretty universal through a system called ALERT. It's an active
00:41:41 shooter response type training. School resource officers are trained in this. Police officers are
00:41:46 trained. Homeland security agents in Tennessee are trained in this response. We believe that
00:41:55 that's a key part of school security, but much more important, I think, or just as important
00:42:01 as the response is not waiting until the danger is at the doorstep. As I stated in my written
00:42:08 testimony about the averted school attack study, we hear a lot of information about a planned school
00:42:15 attack. We must go out and confront that threat and determine whether there is capability and intent
00:42:23 before it ends up on the doorstep of the school.
00:42:29 Plessy recently came to the state and did a little bit of training. Was that helpful? Do you know
00:42:33 about their trip to Tennessee and what they did?
00:42:36 I do not, Mr. Chairman. I'm not familiar with that particular trip.
00:42:40 I think they may have worked with THP on that. Thank you. Mr. Bullock, you described
00:42:49 the impact of budgets, budget cuts, and the mass shortage of officers. What's the impact on the
00:42:57 other officers on the force, stress-wise, marriages, things like that for these huge
00:43:08 shortages of personnel? It takes a tremendous mental toll on officers. Just as an example,
00:43:17 because of the severe shortages that we are experiencing, officers who are assigned
00:43:21 as a detective that should be investigating major crimes like homicides, robberies, things of that
00:43:26 nature, are having to work patrol shifts. They are being sent back to patrol and are diverted away
00:43:33 from their assigned duties as an investigator in order to take 911 calls. They are having to do
00:43:39 that on a regular rotation basis each quarter. That does have a significant impact, as you
00:43:44 mentioned, on mental health. It has an impact on family life. It adds another layer of unpredictability
00:43:50 to an already unpredictable job. We do see an increase in officers who may have issues at home
00:43:58 that may deal with alcohol use, a variety of other things that come as a result of increased stress.
00:44:03 What about the rhetoric? It's died down a little bit, but over maybe a year or two ago, this whole
00:44:13 defund the police thing, how has that impacted morale of the force down at the, as we'd say in
00:44:21 the Army soldier level, but at the officer level? Yes. As you put it, for the boots on the ground,
00:44:26 it has a pretty devastating impact as well because you feel like you are not valued for what you're
00:44:33 being asked. You're asked to be willing to give of your life in the defense of others, and those
00:44:38 who are responsible for providing resources to do the job you're being asked to do are seemingly
00:44:44 pushing you to an invaluable role. So from that aspect, it does have an impact as well, and I will
00:44:55 say even though we have seen to a degree some of those funds restored, we do see some shell
00:45:03 games that get played with that nonetheless, where the funding may seemingly be restored,
00:45:07 but yet it's a responsibility that wasn't necessarily given back to the department,
00:45:11 and so we're given the funds back, but it's not actually going to areas where we need it to go in
00:45:17 order to recruit, retain, and provide the resources for officers to do their job. Thank you. I now
00:45:23 yield, and I recognize the ranking member for five minutes of questioning. Thank you so much,
00:45:29 Mr. Chairman. One of the questions, comments that ran through everyone's opening statement
00:45:38 was the threat of violence that occurs in this country, and most of those threats have occurred
00:45:47 with the use of firearms. Some of us advocate universal background checks for people who own
00:45:57 guns. I'm a hunter. I try to get in the woods every chance I get, and every now and then I get lucky
00:46:05 and bring something home, but I don't have a problem with whatever the requirements are to
00:46:14 own that gun. So, you know, I'm a loyal Biden gun owner. So I'd like to ask each witness
00:46:24 their position on universal background checks to be able to purchase a gun.
00:46:29 Mr. Mays. Thank you, Ranking Member Thompson, for the question.
00:46:37 Whether it's background checks or extreme risk protection orders, whatever may be necessary,
00:46:47 we would like to keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them.
00:46:52 I've spent my career, both in state law enforcement and as a Secret Service agent,
00:46:57 encountering people who are suffering from mental illness, people who are homicidal,
00:47:03 people who are delusional, and they have guns, and we have very little tools available
00:47:08 to take the weapon away. I'm not too worried about law-abiding citizens like yourself who
00:47:17 go hunting. It's people who are of limited capacity or have bad intentions, and this is
00:47:24 where the mental health piece and the law enforcement piece need to work better together.
00:47:31 I've encountered people over my career who are admitting to me that they're mentally ill and
00:47:37 depressed, and he's holding a pistol in his hand, and I have to call his dad to come up and try to
00:47:42 talk the guy out of the pistol to give it to his dad because I have no way to take it away from him.
00:47:47 These are the kind of challenges I have. I understand, and let me just say that what we did
00:47:52 for the federal people in DHS, we passed a specific piece of legislation to help with the
00:47:59 mental health of those people because we talked to the family members and other people who were
00:48:05 distressed. Sheriff, can you address that? I have a large agreement with my colleague here.
00:48:14 I think the biggest problem isn't so much the people that are criminals that get the guns,
00:48:21 and they don't necessarily get them, purchase them properly and the way they should and with
00:48:27 the background checks. We do have background checks, obviously, in the Commonwealth of
00:48:31 Virginia, but I'd have to know the details, quite frankly, of exactly what you mean by
00:48:36 universal background check. I think a lot of that's already done within the Commonwealth
00:48:40 of Virginia, but my biggest concern is the fact that a lot of these weapons are stolen.
00:48:45 They're stolen or used in crimes, and so you can do whatever you want. The fact of the matter is,
00:48:53 I think we've got to hold these people accountable that use guns in crimes and prosecute them to the
00:48:58 fullest extent of the law rather than constantly trying to change laws that are really only going
00:49:04 to impact the honest citizen buying a gun. Well, Sheriff, we won't debate it, but an honest citizen
00:49:11 can get a gun. I'm just saying that if there's a dishonest citizen and it may be 5%, 2%,
00:49:18 that's one of those steps we can do to mitigate that. Mr. Bullock?
00:49:23 I'd like to hit on what Sheriff just said, which is a large part of what we deal with is stolen
00:49:30 firearms. I certainly understand the question about universal background checks. Coming from
00:49:35 Texas, we definitely like our guns as well. I think that efforts are probably best spent in
00:49:42 holding people accountable that are breaking the law very actively, including people that are
00:49:47 knowingly using stolen firearms. Thank you very much. Mr. Bryant?
00:49:54 Likewise, many of my colleagues, I think that universal background checks will assist us in
00:50:01 issues that we're seeing. In many instances, with the level of proliferation of guns that we're
00:50:08 seeing on our streets, any aspect that can allow us to minimize what we're seeing will be beneficial,
00:50:13 not just to the citizens, but to the law enforcement officers as well. Thank you very much.
00:50:20 One more question. On January 6th, thousands of angry supporters who quipped into a frenzy by the
00:50:28 former president marched on the White House to the Capitol, where they broke a police barricade,
00:50:35 smashed windows, and assaulted police officers in an attempt to obstruct the democratic process.
00:50:41 Over 140 officers protecting the Capitol were injured that day. Five police officers died
00:50:50 in the days and weeks followed. Mr. Mays, do you agree that this violence against police officers
00:50:58 was unjustified? Absolutely. Thank you. Chair?
00:51:03 Any violence against police officers doing their job should not be allowed in any sense of the
00:51:13 word. So I agree that anybody that does that should be fully prosecuted. Mr. Bullock?
00:51:18 Take the same stance. Anyone that commits violence towards law enforcement should not be tolerated.
00:51:22 Mr. Bryant? I agree that any violence against police officers lawfully doing their job
00:51:28 should not be tolerated. Thank you. Yield back, Mr. Chair.
00:51:32 The gentleman yields. I now recognize the gentleman from Mississippi and the vice chair of the
00:51:38 committee, Mr. Guest, for five minutes of questioning. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To our
00:51:42 witnesses, thank you for being with us this morning. Chief Bryant, before we begin, I was
00:51:48 wondering if you could give the committee an update if you have any on the three officers
00:51:52 in Atlanta who were shot over the weekend. Absolutely. Thank you so much for inquiring.
00:51:57 All three are in recovery. I spoke to the chief immediately after that incident occurred. He has
00:52:05 continued to update me as a courtesy to inform me that they are improving. Thank you so much for
00:52:12 asking. And if you will please send along to those officers and the members of that department that
00:52:17 our thoughts and prayers are with them during their period of recovery and they will particularly
00:52:23 be remembered this week. As we look at the headlines, I pulled some very brief headlines
00:52:29 in preparation for today's hearing. I put in the search engine officer involved shooting.
00:52:38 One came up 3 a.m. this morning. New Mexico State Police and Roswell Police Department
00:52:45 investigating an officer involved shooting that left a Roswell police officer injured.
00:52:50 A headline from May the 12th. Police identify man shot dead by law enforcement after opening fire
00:52:58 in Amazon warehouse. The article says West Jefferson Police have identified a man killed
00:53:03 by police Sunday. The gunman was fatally shot by law enforcement after he shot a Columbus police
00:53:09 officer. Also a headline from May the 12th. Euclid police officer dead after ambush shooting.
00:53:16 The first paragraph said a first year Euclid police officer in his 20s was shot dead Saturday
00:53:24 night in what authorities described as an ambush after officers responded to a disturbance on East
00:53:30 211th Street. We referenced and just spoke of the three Atlanta police officers who were shot and
00:53:38 injured this weekend as they respond to a call involving an armed gunman. And I think it was
00:53:45 mentioned and at least one if not several of the opening statement by the officers of the shooting
00:53:51 that happened in late April in Charlotte where we had four officers killed and four other officers
00:53:58 who were wounded in that particular incident. And so my question and I'll start with you Mr.
00:54:05 Mays. Are law enforcement officers, are they safer today than they were three years ago?
00:54:17 Thank you for the question. That's a tough one to answer. I have a sense that it's worse out there
00:54:25 on the streets. I don't wear a uniform every day so I get that information from talking to my
00:54:32 fellow officers. I'm not asking you to explain why you feel yes or no but just you know and again
00:54:39 I'm not I'm just asking for your opinion because you're deputy commissioner and you're involved
00:54:46 every day. Do you feel the law enforcement officers are safer today than they were three
00:54:52 years ago? Yes or no? No. Sheriff? No I don't and in fact the FBI just reported yesterday that
00:55:01 79,000 law enforcement officers in 2023 were assaulted and that's a 10-year high. So what
00:55:07 that shows is increasing assaults on law enforcement officers. So to answer your question whether
00:55:12 they're safer we certainly are better well equipped and can save lives much better than we
00:55:17 did in the past but for sure they're not as safe as they were in the past. And very quickly because
00:55:22 I've got a couple other questions. Mr. Bullock, do you believe officers are safer than they were
00:55:25 three years ago? No sir. And Chief, do you believe they were safer than they were three years ago?
00:55:30 As we see the increase in violence against police officers today I would have to say no due to the
00:55:35 increases. Okay and thank you for your answers. Two of the things I want to focus on very quickly
00:55:41 and I probably will only have the time to focus on one. First is the open border policies that we
00:55:46 see. I know that was referenced particularly in your testimony Mr. Bullock about some of the
00:55:52 challenges that you're seeing because of that and though not referenced in other testimony I believe
00:55:58 that we can say that the open border policies has put a strain on law enforcement. But the other
00:56:02 thing I want to touch on very briefly is rogue prosecutors and I know particularly as it relates
00:56:11 to you Mr. Bullock there have been some allegations in media not by you about the prosecutor there in
00:56:16 Austin but want to read this headline and talk on this very briefly and this kind of calculates both.
00:56:23 This is a CNN article. It says seven people indicted in connection with assault on NYPD
00:56:28 officers outside migrant shelters officials say. The article which is dated for the purpose of the
00:56:36 record is February the 8th. The article says seven people have been indicted in connection with an
00:56:40 assault last month on two New York police officers near Times Square and authorities are working to
00:56:46 identify three others who were involved. The indictments come in a case that has drawn attention
00:56:50 in part because of the migrant status of at least some of the defendants and because four of these
00:56:56 named in the indictment were released last week without bail. Are rogue prosecutors do they pose
00:57:04 a risk to law enforcement in general? I'll let you answer just yes or no very quickly because I'm
00:57:11 over time and with that I will yield back. Yes. The gentleman yields. Can I answer the question?
00:57:20 Yeah go ahead. Sure. Yes sir. If each of you would mind answering the question then I yield back and
00:57:24 I apologize for being over time. Yep go ahead. Yes sir. Briefly. Yes I agree. Absolutely.
00:57:32 Not just to police but to the community as a whole. Yes. Thank you very much. I yield back.
00:57:37 Gentleman yields. I now recognize the gentleman from California Mr. Swalwell the ranking member
00:57:42 on our cyber security subcommittee. Police week's always a bittersweet week in Washington D.C. We
00:57:50 remember the fallen those who have given their lives in the service of their community over the
00:57:57 last year but also it's a time for fellowship and brotherhood and sisterhood of the profession to
00:58:03 come together in our nation's capital and just first want to honor the service of those who we
00:58:11 lost last year. I want to thank each of you for your service and wanted to just go through a
00:58:20 couple of different incidents that this committee has focused on and this congress has focused on
00:58:26 and just get your perspective. Do you agree Mr. Mays that the officers who defended the capital
00:58:36 on January 6th are heroes? Yes sir I would agree. How about you Sheriff Chapman? Anybody that puts
00:58:47 their lives on the line to make sure that they're keeping people safe is a hero to me so I would
00:58:52 agree that anybody that was assaulted certainly by the rioters were heroes. And how about you Mr.
00:59:00 Bullock? I would stand by the same words any officer that puts on this uniform lawfully doing
00:59:06 their duties is a hero in my book. And Mr. Bryant? I am in concurrence that any person that puts on
00:59:14 this uniform and honorably serve out their career is a hero absolutely. And Mr. Mays if you
00:59:22 assaulted or physically harmed an officer on January 6th does that make you a criminal?
00:59:29 Anyone that assaulted an officer on January 6th and then is arrested and
00:59:37 and convicted as a criminal yes sir. Mr. Chapman?
00:59:42 An assault on a law enforcement officer is a crime so yes that would be a criminal.
00:59:46 Mr. Bullock? Mr. Bryant? I'm in agreement that you become a criminal. And by the way I support
00:59:55 legislation on the Judiciary Committee that would make assaulting or committing a battery against
01:00:01 a law enforcement officer a separate class of crimes and I hope we can. Gentlemen yield for
01:00:07 just a second. Yeah they do that in Tennessee. Good yeah we should do it federally. Thank you
01:00:12 Chairman. One last question as it relates to January 6th. Do you believe that anyone who is
01:00:19 convicted of harming an officer on January 6th is a hostage?
01:00:24 If they're in prison for that?
01:00:27 I no sir I do not. Sheriff? I don't really understand the question. I don't either.
01:00:37 Do you believe that calling a January 6th convict a hostage is appropriate? That if
01:00:44 they're in prison that they're a hostage? I would say that anybody is that assaulted a law
01:00:50 enforcement officer that was charged with it and is going going through their legal processes is
01:00:54 the appropriate action is being taken. Mr. Bullock? Regardless of the event if someone is
01:01:04 charged with a crime follows due process and is convicted they are a convicted criminal not a
01:01:09 hostage. Mr. Bryant? I do not consider someone who was arrested for assaulting a police officer.
01:01:16 I also just want to point out there are some on this committee not all certainly not the chairman
01:01:24 who have advocated for defunding the FBI. Do you think we should defund the FBI Mr. Mace?
01:01:32 No sir. Sheriff? No sir I have a son who's an FBI agent so no I want to keep him keep him employed.
01:01:39 Mr. Bullock? No sir. And Mr. Bryant? No no sir. So I just want to have some real talk with you all
01:01:49 and some of my colleagues because I'm the son of a cop my brothers are cops I was a prosecutor.
01:01:55 Law enforcement for our family is not a career it's a way of life. It's about putting the bad
01:02:00 guys away and keeping the community safe. And so to me when I hear some of my colleagues again not
01:02:07 all but some of them on this committee thump their chest and say that they back the blue
01:02:12 but then they're going to call a January 6 convict a hostage that's not backing the blue that's backing
01:02:19 the coup. And when some of them say that they back the blue but the second the blue raids the house
01:02:26 of their preferred candidate for president that's not backing the blue that's backing a fool. And so
01:02:31 I'm all about supporting law enforcement and honoring them during police week but we got to
01:02:35 be consistent. Police don't give a rip about politics they just want to serve the community
01:02:40 they want to be independent and free of politics and we should back them every time they do their
01:02:44 job expect the highest amount of accountability but not just expect them to wear red team blue team
01:02:50 when it suits them and I yield back. Gentleman yields I now recognize Mr. Jimenez the gentleman
01:02:56 from Miami Florida for five minutes questioning. Thank you thank you very much and you know most
01:03:02 of you probably know that I was a firefighter for the city of Miami but probably most of you don't
01:03:07 know that I was a special officer actually served on the SWAT team of the city of Miami Police
01:03:12 Department. So while I rode a red fire truck I also every once in a while especially during certain
01:03:20 difficult times I also rode with the police department and so I honor the four of you for
01:03:26 your service in public safety and the police department. When I was the mayor of Miami-Dade
01:03:32 I was also the sheriff of Miami-Dade and one of the things that I did was after the incident in
01:03:40 Paris France I mandated that all my officers patrol officers etc would be equipped with AR-15s
01:03:48 and enhanced body armor. Is that something which is normal in in the United States and do you think
01:03:54 that we should protect our police officers you know more if we're asking them to take their life
01:04:00 and put put it at risk should we as a either community or a country also give them the
01:04:06 protection that they need in order to carry out their tasks and so I'll ask the four of you is
01:04:11 this something normal or is this something a little bit unusual? Thank you for the question
01:04:17 sir. Protecting law enforcement officers is essential and that comes in the form of equipment
01:04:22 including the body armor, the rifles, the all the weapons, the radios, less than lethal force
01:04:29 methods everything they need and it also includes the training all of it together they need to be
01:04:34 properly equipped. But is that normal is that are we is that are the officers in this country
01:04:44 sufficiently protected across the nation or is it something which is jurisdiction by jurisdiction?
01:04:50 I don't know that I can answer for the entire nation I could say in the state of Tennessee
01:04:56 it's it's generally jurisdiction by jurisdiction it depends on funding. Fair enough.
01:05:01 I would agree it's jurisdiction by jurisdiction and I served in Miami with the Drug Enforcement
01:05:07 Administration so I know how dangerous it was certainly during the cocaine wars down there.
01:05:11 I think we do need to be equipped well we need to be able to defend ourselves against very
01:05:15 violent criminals out there but that does come down to a jurisdictional issue and how
01:05:20 those communities feel about how the police law enforcement officers in those areas should be
01:05:24 equipped. Yeah and I was on SWAT team during the cocaine war so yeah. Next. I would say that's
01:05:30 probably not the normal I'd tell you in Austin every officer is not equipped with an AR nor
01:05:36 are they all certified to use one per se as well as us getting enhanced body armor is not
01:05:42 standardized that they'll carry it on them all the time it'll always be on their purse. Would
01:05:47 you want that? Absolutely. Okay. Mr. Bryant. Thank you. As a representative of law enforcement
01:05:54 not just nationally but internationally I can tell you that it goes from jurisdiction to
01:05:58 jurisdiction there's not an equal level of distribution nor an equipment or training and
01:06:05 so we we have to improve upon that nationally. All right my second question is the Director Wray
01:06:12 has informed us that because of the the openness of the border that he expects
01:06:20 or he has apprehensions about a a possible terrorist attack here in the United States
01:06:27 because frankly there was about two million people we haven't the faintest idea where they came from
01:06:32 who they are where they are or why they're here. Do you all have the same kind of apprehensions in
01:06:38 that Director Wray has?
01:06:41 Yes sir I do very concerned about people coming across the southern border and we don't know
01:06:49 where they are and we don't know where they're going. That absolutely concerns me yes.
01:06:57 I would also agree we deal with on a regular basis interacting with individuals who have
01:07:02 no form of identification that we know who they are. Mr. Bryant. Yes we trust the information
01:07:10 being provided to us by Director Wray and so I'm in agreement with it. Do you feel that that the
01:07:16 federal government is giving you enough in in the terms or in the the area of intelligence
01:07:24 to be able to protect your jurisdictions to the best of your ability in light of the fact that
01:07:32 the Director Wray believes that there is a a great threat to the homeland from terrorists unknown to
01:07:38 us? Go ahead one at a time. Yes sir we're not getting all the information that would be helpful.
01:07:50 We the federal government is apparently unable to tell us how many immigrants are coming to Tennessee,
01:07:59 where they're going in the state, where they came from. We don't have that information. We
01:08:05 so if I if I don't even know how many are coming and where they're from
01:08:10 then how can I begin to understand what kind of threat they pose to our to my state?
01:08:18 We have a good relationship with the federal counterparts and the information we get is more
01:08:23 kind of personal personal contact but I would say that as always that communication could be better.
01:08:27 We're probably a little bit more different in that we have issues with our local
01:08:34 local officials that tend to try to restrict our use of information that is
01:08:39 that is trying to be passed on to us or accessible to us.
01:08:45 Having a strong relationship with our federal partners is essential to what we do. However,
01:08:49 we do recognize that there'd be there's a level of continuous challenges around intelligence and
01:08:55 information. Thank you again for your for your service and I yield back. Gentlemen yields I now
01:09:01 recognize Mr. Ivey the gentleman from Maryland for his five minutes question. Thank you Mr.
01:09:05 Chairman and I thank you for calling this hearing today and I appreciate the panel of witnesses as
01:09:13 well. Deputy Commissioner Mays, I was especially impressed with your testimony. I thought it was
01:09:20 right up the alley of the types of things that we can do here on the committee and things that
01:09:25 we should hear about. Your points about the school shootings I thought was very helpful
01:09:29 and one thing I did have a question about you mentioned I think it was 94 percent there's an
01:09:35 opportunity to preempt some of these shootings because we have information that somebody's
01:09:40 planning on doing it and you know 94 percent of the time. I wonder if you could elaborate a bit on
01:09:47 things that you think we could do especially here in Congress to help address that.
01:09:52 Thank you for that question. Those study numbers are compelling and the NTAC, the National Threat
01:10:01 Assessment Center study that I referenced in my written testimony is not the only one. There are
01:10:06 multiple studies and again and again they tell us that most attacks on schools targeted violence as
01:10:13 it were there's a pathway to violence and if we can get involved and get the shooter off that
01:10:19 pathway to violence we have a chance at stopping it something from happening. Unfortunately there's
01:10:25 no real shortcut. It's a roll up your sleeves and get out there and talk to the person
01:10:30 and intervention. It's a multidisciplinary team approach. I think certainly the United States
01:10:38 Congress could help by more funding for those type of programs. Just last year in Tennessee
01:10:47 the multidisciplinary threat assessment approach in each school prior to last year was
01:10:52 it was permissive but not required. A new state law has made that a mandate and so part of the
01:11:00 governor's initiative to put a homeland security agent in each of Tennessee's 95 counties is
01:11:05 specifically to help coordinate that multidisciplinary approach which is needed.
01:11:10 I hope that answers your question. It does. It does. I might follow up with you afterwards as
01:11:16 well and I did want to actually I forgot to welcome our new member Representative Kenney
01:11:23 from New York and I take the chairman's point that we're close to having a quorum for New York
01:11:28 delegation meetings here on the committee but certainly welcome you. I did want to make a point
01:11:35 with you Mr. Chairman and my colleagues here. I had a chance to go out and visit the Secret Service
01:11:42 facility which is in my district where they do training and some of the training they do and I
01:11:48 take the point from some of the testimony today about how important training can be.
01:11:54 So I was quite surprised to see that our Secret Service doesn't have a facility for training
01:12:00 on protecting the White House. So when they took me out to show me what they do, they took us to
01:12:06 an open field literally and they said imagine the tree line at the back is the White House
01:12:12 and the road that we're on would be Pennsylvania Avenue and then they did the demo you know with
01:12:17 people coming in and you know the dog went out and intercepted them and all of that but it was
01:12:23 like playing pickup football and you know as a kid you know the the pine tree is the touchdown line.
01:12:29 That's what they're doing actually to prepare for attacks on the White House. So one of the things
01:12:34 I'd like to ask at some point we you know not today obviously but I hope that's the kind of
01:12:40 thing that we can take a look at and try and figure out ways to help them get some kind of
01:12:45 environment where they can do some training. The best they can do right now is Tyler Perry built
01:12:52 a mock White House for a movie or something back so they fly them down there and use this this mock
01:12:57 White House which obviously isn't the same thing as the real thing and certainly wouldn't be the
01:13:01 kind of place that you'd want to do training to protect the President of the United States and
01:13:07 the family but that's what they've got right now. So I would love to have a chance to for us to take
01:13:12 a look at that as as a committee and see if there's a way to step up on that front and then finally
01:13:17 let me end with this. National Police Week and I thank the Chairman again for holding a hearing
01:13:23 on the topic. I thank all of you for the service that you provide, the risk that you've taken,
01:13:28 the sacrifices that you and your families have made and for police officers around the country
01:13:33 and their families as well. I was a local prosecutor. I first got elected in 2002.
01:13:40 Before I took office, two police officers were gunned down trying to serve a warrant for a mental
01:13:48 health issue and they was in the guy's parents house. They didn't know that he had a firearm.
01:13:54 There's a guns issue, there's a mental health issue. I think all those are the kinds of things
01:13:59 we need to talk about more as we move through these but thank you to you and law enforcement
01:14:07 officers around the country for the sacrifices you make and the work that you do to protect
01:14:12 the country and our communities and with that I yield back.
01:14:15 Gentlemen yield. Sounds like rock drill doesn't it Mr. Crane?
01:14:20 I now recognize Mr. Gonzales, a gentleman from Texas for his five minutes of questioning.
01:14:27 Thank you gentlemen and thank you gentlemen for your service to our country and thank you for the
01:14:32 men and please reshare to the men and women that serve alongside you that this committee is
01:14:38 committed to making sure that you have all the tools you need to be successful in keeping Americans
01:14:43 safe. In particular I want to thank Mr. Bullock. Justin Barry is a good friend of mine,
01:14:50 an officer there in Austin and I hear a lot about kind of behind the scenes what's happening
01:14:55 and in many cases I feel as if you're serving behind enemy lines and I want to take this
01:15:00 opportunity to really tear into the Travis County District Attorney. I think that guy has done a
01:15:06 terrible job. I think that that individual has made that community unsafe and those type of
01:15:14 situations need to go away. We need to get back to everybody is on the same team paddling in the
01:15:20 same direction for the safety of all citizens not this ideology or the other and my question is to
01:15:27 you sir. In recent years rogue prosecutors have brought radical ideas on how to approach our
01:15:33 criminal justice system. We are seeing prosecutors refusing to prosecute offenders and allowing low
01:15:40 bond amounts for violent criminals. We've seen criminals posted bond that end up committing more
01:15:46 violent crimes in some cases shooting police officers and endangering the community. This is
01:15:51 a dangerous trend and tells communities that there are no real penalties for breaking the law.
01:15:57 My question to you Mr. Bullock is what are some of the tools that states or congress might be
01:16:02 able to use to reel in some of these criminal friendly prosecutors? Thank you sir. It undoubtedly
01:16:11 is an issue that we deal with. You know it's the the enforcement aspect is the biggest part where
01:16:16 laws are passed, laws are in place but yet we have individuals that decide on their own not to
01:16:22 enforce those laws. I think that some opportunities are what congress is already looking at and in
01:16:29 particular when officers are targeted that that becomes a federal crime because then we tend to
01:16:34 have decent working relationships with uh district u.s attorneys that do prosecute those crimes along
01:16:42 with a lot of the other drug crimes that we have. For example, we just recently in Austin had almost
01:16:48 80 overdoses on fentanyl that resulted in nine people dying and then we had between EMS and APD
01:16:55 over I believe it was over 300 doses of Narcan that were administered within a single weekend.
01:17:00 Yet we have a prosecutor who drops unilaterally any possession of a controlled substance under a
01:17:08 gram and that can be a lethal dose of fentanyl. So any efforts that would strengthen prosecution
01:17:13 that make sure that crimes are actually enforced and prosecution is followed through would be
01:17:17 extremely beneficial. Thank you. This is certainly getting a whole lot more attention here on
01:17:21 congress because I feel as if you are doing your part of the the job. You're putting the uniform on,
01:17:26 you're going to work, you're once again trying to protect your community and then when you pass
01:17:31 that ball off to the prosecuting standpoint in some cases you have people that are throwing the
01:17:36 ball the other way and it's not getting down the field. I recently introduced the COPS Act and one
01:17:42 of the things that I thought was interesting on it and I'd love to get your take is the COPS Act
01:17:47 includes any attack against a police officer to include explosive materials such as fireworks and
01:17:55 other dangerous weapons. We always talk about guns, we always talk about a police officer getting
01:18:00 shot in the line of duty. What I'm starting to see is this morph into something else. You know,
01:18:05 these criminals, these rioters, they're using fireworks, they're using you know bottles of
01:18:11 water that have been frozen. So once again, are you seeing an increase in other than kind of
01:18:17 firearms, this is Mr. Bullock, other than firearms are your officers under attack with these other
01:18:23 areas? Yes, other things that you mentioned such as fireworks are being used, high-powered lasers
01:18:28 are an issue as well. We've even recently discovered of a dry chemical that can be thrown
01:18:35 on officers that burns and it causes, it can be potentially lethal depending upon how it's treated
01:18:41 and so these are all things that we're having to prepare for now that it is not just firearms that
01:18:44 are a threat to law enforcement. I see this growing and I also, we have to get ahead of this. It can't
01:18:48 just be firearms when a police officer gets fired on. My last question is for you Sheriff. I lean on
01:18:54 sheriffs heavily. I have nearly half of the overall southern border and one of the questions I want to
01:18:59 ask is a little bit more blocking and tackling is license plate readers. In many cases what I hear
01:19:04 from my sheriffs is license plate readers are a game changer. They include, you're able to to find
01:19:10 more information and get an aspect of it. So just in general, what is your thoughts on interacting
01:19:18 license plates readers and the data along that into your county?
01:19:23 License plate readers are critical information that helps us solve crimes up and down the coast,
01:19:28 anywhere in the area. Gives us a heads up on anything that might have been like a crime that
01:19:34 had already passed occurred in like a neighborhood where we can go back then and track it. A license
01:19:39 plate reader and see who might have been in the neighborhood and then you can get yourself a
01:19:42 suspect and and possibly prosecution based on something as simple as that. So they're critical
01:19:48 to what we do. We need to have them. We need to have access to that information and it really
01:19:52 does help us quite a bit. Thank you Sheriff and I yield back Chairman. The gentleman yields. I now
01:19:58 recognize Mr. Garcia for his five minutes of questioning. Thank you Mr. Chairman. I want to
01:20:02 thank all of you for your service as well. I was mayor of Long Beach before I got to Congress
01:20:07 for the last eight years and so I worked with our police department obviously very closely.
01:20:12 I'm really proud of the of the men and women that serve in Long Beach and police departments
01:20:16 across the country. I also want to thank them for working in those eight years to focus on
01:20:22 also issues that I believe made the Long Beach Police Department focus on issues around diversity,
01:20:27 around equity, around community policing and other initiatives that really made I think our
01:20:32 police department inclusive of the of the community. Now we know that law enforcement
01:20:36 and keeping people safe shouldn't be a partisan issue. I hope people understand that we talk
01:20:41 about supporting the police. We need to follow through on that support in Congress through real
01:20:46 actions not just partisan messaging bills and police officers actually need the tools to do
01:20:51 their jobs. They need training. They need technology and of course we need to make sure that we can
01:20:55 hire and recruit talented people into our police departments. That also includes and means federal
01:21:01 funding. Now Mr. Bryant, would it support state and local law enforcement to actually defund
01:21:07 federal support programs for community policing? Absolutely not. Many of our agencies
01:21:14 work together within a type of ecosystem that we are relying upon one another and so any defunding
01:21:24 of our federal agencies will have a significant impact on our local enforcement agencies as well
01:21:33 as we typically have TFOs on part of those. Thank you sir. I'm assuming you're familiar with the
01:21:38 COPS federal funding program as well which as we all know if you ask any police department
01:21:43 across the country particularly those in in urban large cities they're critical for our police
01:21:49 departments. You know 80 percent of the majority have signed on to a budget which actually eliminates
01:21:56 and reduces funding for a COPS federal program for police departments. I think it's really
01:22:00 important that we keep that funding and that we support law enforcement across the country in
01:22:04 places like Long Beach and across America. Now Mr. Bryant, I also wanted to show you this graph because
01:22:08 I think it's really important. As mayor we would track data. This is data that comes from police
01:22:13 departments from across the country. You can see here there was a surge of homicides by 30 percent
01:22:19 to the highest level of the 90s here in 2020 and overall we know that violent crime and
01:22:26 homicides has been decreasing over the last few decades even though some like to scare folks and
01:22:31 and act like somehow we are in this massive crime wave that we've never seen. We know that's just
01:22:35 actually not true but in 2020 when we did see a small increase who was president in 2020?
01:22:43 In 2020 it was President Trump. That's right and so if you look at the graph of the overall crime
01:22:50 that was decreasing we see the one spike that we had it was actually during Donald Trump's presidency
01:22:55 and since then crime is actually beginning to decrease. In fact we're now reaching again
01:23:01 lower levels because President Biden and other presidents and other mayors and other governors
01:23:06 have also invested in community policing, in community safety, in park programs and ensuring
01:23:12 that we not just focus on the policing side but that we're also investing in communities and so
01:23:16 I just want to be very very clear about where actual homicides in the U.S. have actually gone.
01:23:21 They're going down and in fact the only real increase we had was when Donald Trump was
01:23:26 president just to know when he talks about what's happening across this country as relates to crime
01:23:30 he's actually wrong and so I wanted to make that note and I wanted to say one final thing.
01:23:35 As you probably know we want to go back to January 6th. We talk about policing and supporting police
01:23:41 officers. I think it's very important to support our capital police that were here and protected
01:23:44 the capital on January the 6th. I toured the DC jail with in fact one other member of this committee
01:23:49 in the majority and when we did that unfortunately those prisoners, those insurrectionists
01:23:56 were treated like heroes. They were hugged. They were given handshakes by members of the majority
01:24:03 and particularly one member of this committee. Let's remember the facts. 17 of the 20 that were
01:24:08 charged at that jail were charged with assaulting police. Six of them had already pled guilty yet
01:24:14 they are being called in some cases heroes. They're being called hostages by folks in the
01:24:20 majority. In fact this right here is a reminder these circles of folks that actually are in the
01:24:27 DC jail that have been called heroes that have assaulted police that have done nothing but
01:24:34 essentially committed insurrection and treason against this country. So when we talk about
01:24:38 supporting law enforcement sir, we talk about ensuring that we support our police officers.
01:24:44 It's very important that we support the capital police and not the 20 people that are being held
01:24:51 and that are being coddled, supported and uplifted by some members of the congress which I think is
01:24:57 shameful, disgusting, there's no place and quite frankly hypocritical as well. To conclude I want
01:25:02 to submit this profiles of the January 6th inmates of the DC jail which is an article that just
01:25:08 outlines and lists exactly who these quote-unquote hostages as called by some of the
01:25:14 majority actually are. Mr. Chairman. Gentlemen yields I now recognize the gentleman from
01:25:22 Mississippi Mr. Eazell, former sheriff for five minutes. Thank you Mr. Chairman. It's an honor
01:25:29 to be here this week especially serving in the house on national police week acknowledging the
01:25:34 hard work of local law enforcement and federal partners that we work with. Yesterday I was proud
01:25:40 the house unanimously passed my resolution which expresses congressional support for local law
01:25:46 enforcement and condemns the call to defund the police. This is particularly important and I
01:25:52 believe relates to the conversation today as the Biden administration refused to enforce laws at
01:25:58 our border that would make law enforcement officer jobs easier. Sheriff Chapman, it's great to see
01:26:04 another sheriff in the room today and glad to see all of you here with us. I know you glad to be
01:26:10 here. Your testimony about DHS silence when you were seeking answers about the resettling of 1,000
01:26:19 refugees in your community is disturbing. As a former sheriff I know how important information
01:26:25 sharing is and I would expect DHS to fully cooperate with local law enforcement. Clearly
01:26:32 that's not happening. I'm sure you brought your concerns regarding intel sharing to DHS and
01:26:39 tell us what the response was. The first response was okay we understand your concerns we'll get
01:26:48 back to you we'll work this out. About two weeks later still nothing had been done and it was clear
01:26:54 that the only way that we're going to solve this issue with the people coming in and getting the
01:26:58 community notified there was no transparency in this with regards to anything that was occurring
01:27:03 with that would be for us to do it ourselves. So I called a stakeholders meeting myself. I thought
01:27:07 I'd have about 12 people that would show up. I ended up having probably close to 70 that showed
01:27:12 up. We went around the room everybody from faith-based leaders to hospital members to fire
01:27:19 rescue to you know many three-letter agencies around the beltway here and we were able to put
01:27:24 together a plan and do it and then have a subsequent community meeting so that the citizens would know
01:27:30 what to expect what was coming in. So in other words everything that was handled that was that
01:27:35 needed to be done was done at the local level with very little assistance until we had that community
01:27:40 panel where they all came in and then were able to after we had already organized where we needed
01:27:46 to go with that that community panel for then relay what was what was going to happen and how
01:27:51 we were going to handle it. Fortunately because we did that at the local level we didn't have any
01:27:55 issues of concern. Very good. Has anything improved since you had that community meeting with DHS?
01:28:04 The process went well. We have very little contact with DHS. Have a lot of contact with
01:28:10 our other federal partners but we do not have very much contact with members of DHS.
01:28:15 As long as I'm here I'll continue to work with the committee to find ways to instruct DHS to
01:28:20 cooperate with local law enforcement officers. We all know the importance of information sharing.
01:28:26 You also testified that even though Loudoun County is not a border county you face many of the same
01:28:32 issues as these border counties do. Can you elaborate and tell us how this open border
01:28:38 policy is affecting your county and even if you have some knowledge about some other counties
01:28:44 around your area? I would say the most critical part of that is is the fentanyl that's coming in
01:28:51 and and I just saw recent stats I think there was 115 million pills that were seized in 2023. There
01:28:57 was a up 71 million from the year before. Fentanyl deaths are impacting everybody throughout the
01:29:04 throughout the country. We've seen when I testified before a subcommittee a few weeks ago I talked
01:29:11 about the nine fentanyl overdoses that we had from one particular high school members of one
01:29:16 particular high school in one area within about a three-week period. So we are seeing issues of
01:29:22 concern and we're seeing the fentanyl used by younger people. It's really concerning me that
01:29:28 it's now going down to the teenage level where before that we saw between 25 and 35 years old.
01:29:33 Now then it was 20 to 25 now it's 15 to 20 uh 25 whatever and it really does concern me that the
01:29:39 age is dropping and I would say that's the biggest impact that we're seeing from the open border
01:29:43 policies and the constant influx of of drugs that are that are permeate throughout the United States.
01:29:49 Can you walk us through some of the challenges that's going on with local law enforcement
01:29:58 as a part of this border mess that we have and has this hurt your department's ability to recruit?
01:30:07 I think we've actually done pretty good recruiting because we answer directly to the citizens that we
01:30:12 serve. I think there's a lot of people that like that being being an elected official rather than
01:30:16 an appointed official. So we're in a position where we answer directly to them and aren't taking
01:30:21 our direction from necessarily people that have other agendas that might want to try to impose
01:30:27 that on us as law enforcement leaders. So our ability to recruit has actually gone pretty good.
01:30:31 We have we've we have about a six percent attrition rate most of which are retirements.
01:30:36 Our recruitment has got we hired I think went through 100 people last year close to that.
01:30:41 So we're we're doing pretty good in the scope of things in comparison to surrounding areas. So
01:30:46 I don't really have any personal complaints but I do know that it's a that's a problem that's
01:30:50 impacting many of our law enforcement agencies in the area. Thank you Mr. Chairman. I yield back
01:30:55 and thank you all again for being here today. The gentleman the gentleman yields. I now recognize
01:31:00 Mr. Mirez from Illinois and you're welcome to oh yeah that's right thank you for the reminder.
01:31:06 We'll so order. Thank you. Yeah I just want to make sure we put in the profiles of the January
01:31:11 6th inmates into the record. So ordered and you're welcome to introduce your guest if you'd like.
01:31:16 Thank you Chairman. My mother who oftentimes many of you have heard of was here for about an hour.
01:31:24 I had to leave but really grateful that she was here as as you know she brought me here.
01:31:30 She was pregnant when she crossed that border and her daughter today is a member of Congress.
01:31:34 So I wanted to make sure that she was in committee. Chairman I want to thank you and ranking member
01:31:40 and the witnesses that are here today for being here. And you know I heard one of my colleagues
01:31:47 say look the number one job for our officers is to put the bad people away. Not just the bad guys
01:31:53 because guys girls could be it could be it could be anyone and to protect our communities and make
01:31:59 our communities safe. I agree with that and after I've heard so many of your testimonies it's clear
01:32:06 to me that we all agree that we must strategically invest in community safety. I believe community
01:32:12 safety is bigger than policing because it requires long-term preventive solutions with professionals
01:32:18 that are trained in multiple disciplines and that working together officers and other trained
01:32:25 professionals were able to address the root cause of violence. For years now law enforcement has
01:32:31 increasingly become the first responder and primary way that we address systemic problems.
01:32:36 For example increased global instability resulting in unprecedented unprecedented numbers of refugees
01:32:42 needing urgent resettlement support as Sheriff Chapman mentioned occurred in London County.
01:32:48 To unaddressed issues that undermine school safety as Deputy Commissioner Mays noted
01:32:54 is a priority in Tennessee. We have over burdened our public servants with tasks in crisis that
01:33:00 they're not equipped to confront which makes them and our communities right less safe. And I believe
01:33:07 as we're talking about where we are in this precise moment I think we can restore balance
01:33:12 in public safety ecosystem by investing initiatives that allow professionals to respond to the crisis
01:33:18 that they were trained to confront that mental health crisis. President Bryant I appreciate you
01:33:24 noting how public health and safety require a comprehensive non-judgmental pragmatic evidence
01:33:30 based approach that includes violence prevention measures. So I wanted to ask you how would
01:33:37 increasing the role of community members, health care providers and other trained professionals
01:33:43 in public safety response affect police departments? Thank you so much. Public safety is
01:33:50 the responsibility of all citizens involved. And so when we are and I agree that police law
01:33:58 enforcement primarily police are typically the first responders to almost every given incident
01:34:04 which over burdens the profession. But increasing allowing the community to play a significant part
01:34:12 is very beneficial to what we do. Incorporating other professions and what we do as as stated in
01:34:20 this base of mental health I think will help us tremendously. Thank you Mr. Bryant. You know
01:34:26 Chicago I represent I believe one of the greatest cities in the world Chicago and it's been working
01:34:32 to right size the role of police. It's been re-designating some of the overwhelmingly amount
01:34:37 of public health and service work delegated to the police department back to community partners
01:34:42 and trained professionals. The Chicago Police Department reported that in 2019 its officers
01:34:49 had to respond to over 40,000 calls with a mental health component of some case. And it generated
01:34:57 obviously deep frustration among officers who feel that they're required to respond to social
01:35:01 and medical problems for which they're not trained and that mental health systems should be managing
01:35:07 those instead. So to address this Chicago has started the treatment not trauma pilot that has
01:35:13 counselors responding to 911 mental health calls instead of having to call the police. And one
01:35:19 organization using this model has reported that they have had they have not needed police presence
01:35:26 for over 94 percent of those calls. That means that those officers that would have had to respond
01:35:31 to those calls can actually address the issues of crime of violence. And because of community
01:35:37 intervention programs my own district has seen a 50 percent reduction in shootings and homicides.
01:35:43 So as I think about that and I think about our officers one of the things that I want us to think
01:35:48 about is how do we make sure that you have the resources you need the partners you need to do
01:35:53 this work and that you are able to put the bad guys and the bad women behind bars while focusing
01:36:00 and also protecting our communities. That's why to me as we talk about police week I want to make
01:36:06 sure that we continue to incorporate community policing and partnerships so that we do what we
01:36:11 all care about reduce crime and have communities that are safe. With that chairman I yield back.
01:36:18 Then the lady yields back. I now recognize myself for five minutes of questioning.
01:36:22 Thank you all for being here today. I thank the ranking member and the chairman Green
01:36:27 for holding this hearing. President Bullock I want to start with you about recruitment retention.
01:36:32 In your testimony you discussed how your department is 700 officers short of where
01:36:37 staffing should be. One of the reasons you attribute this shortage was the city of Austin's
01:36:41 defunding the police department by 150 million dollars. As you mentioned in Austin's case
01:36:46 political posturing has led to the defunding of countless police departments across the United
01:36:50 States which has increased crime and eroded public safety. Austin continues to be one of
01:36:55 the America's fastest growing cities. As this growth continues what do you foresee will be
01:37:00 some of the impacts of rising crime on economic development and quality of life for city residents
01:37:05 in Austin? I think we're already seeing it quite honestly. I've had a number of discussions with
01:37:10 business owners that are involved in recruiting new businesses to come to Austin to come to Texas
01:37:16 and public safety is one of their biggest issues and people have opted not to come to Austin
01:37:22 because of the issues that we have seen in particular with crime and as it relates to a
01:37:28 lot of homeless issues and various other things but in particular enforcement and public safety
01:37:33 is the number one factor that businesses take into account and we're now starting to see people
01:37:38 choose not to come to Austin because of the environment that's been created. Are these and
01:37:43 these are not just small businesses these are pretty sizable companies as well right? Correct
01:37:46 yeah they're businesses of all size they are still like new startups but also significant
01:37:50 companies as well. What has the impacts of the defunding department had on officer morale
01:37:56 and recruitment and retention? I mean from the recruiting and retention part I think it's very
01:38:03 it's pretty quantifiable because we have seen every year since this started in particular back
01:38:08 in 2018 we've lost more officers than we've been able to recruit so it has a very definitive
01:38:14 impact on that on those numbers. As far as morale goes it takes a very heavy toll on officers to try
01:38:22 to maintain the same level of service that our community expects and deserves while at the same
01:38:27 time doing it with ever diminishing resources so that's a that's a lot for officers to try to
01:38:32 carry as they're trying to go out and keep the city safe. Absolutely and just to double down on
01:38:38 that I mean with you saying you're losing officers but also in your testimony you talked about how
01:38:43 Texas state troopers have been reassigned from from Austin to the southern border which also hurts
01:38:51 what impact does that had on public safety in Austin the reassignment of the state troopers?
01:38:59 When they were when they were assigned to be in Austin they had a pretty they had a notable impact
01:39:04 in particular in areas where we had seen increased call volumes we'd seen increase in 9-1-1 calls and
01:39:10 criminal activity so being able to go and suppress that activity by an increased presence of state
01:39:15 troopers was very beneficial in particular as we have dealt with in recent years street takeovers
01:39:20 state troopers being able to assist in curbing that issue and when they left we saw spikes
01:39:27 city a study was actually done as well as it related specifically to traffic fatalities where
01:39:32 there was a notable increase that as we dealt with a decreased level of patrol activity and
01:39:38 traffic enforcement we saw I believe was around a 60 percent increase in traffic fatalities that
01:39:43 occur as a result of the lack of enforcement we're able to do. So you actually just answered my next
01:39:47 question so the reassignment has had a heavy impact on the ability of Austin police to protect the
01:39:54 public because you can't you don't have enough people responding so the thin ranks really
01:40:01 really does have a negative impact on what you can do. Yes sir. I appreciate you being here.
01:40:05 Deputy Commissioner Mays I want to ask you a question about interagency coordination
01:40:10 collaboration and sharing information among law enforcement agencies plays a crucial role
01:40:14 in mitigating the threats since 9-11 there's been a growing trend of agencies working together to
01:40:19 promote transparency and exchange of information in what ways does the Tennessee Office of Homeland
01:40:24 Security coordinate with state local and federal law enforcement agencies to address address
01:40:29 security concerns and how has how has your experience been working with them?
01:40:34 Thank you for the question. We coordinate several different ways I would say at the forefront is the
01:40:42 Tennessee Fusion Center one of the other witnesses mentioned there are 80 fusion centers around the
01:40:47 nation and in the territories. Tennessee has one fusion center and we have state local and
01:40:53 federal partners that participate there. We've also embedded Tennessee Office of Homeland Security
01:41:00 intelligence analyst in the intelligence units of police departments around the state.
01:41:05 We found that that's a good way to be present and to learn for example we have someone in the
01:41:12 Memphis Real-Time Crime Center that gives us a good idea of what's going on in Memphis better than
01:41:16 than we can ascertain from sitting in Nashville. And then the other really important thing I would
01:41:22 say is it has to do with just personal relationships and investing in those those relationships before
01:41:29 something bad happens. On the Christmas Day bombing in Nashville in 2020 we were opening
01:41:36 presents with my kids and I got a phone call that a bomb went off in downtown Nashville and blew up
01:41:41 most of Second Avenue. When I responded downtown everyone was there for all the federal partners
01:41:47 all the local and state law enforcement agencies in the area and I knew personally the leader of
01:41:54 every one of those agencies that we had met before and discussed responses before. The only one I had
01:41:59 met was the the agent in charge of the ATF because he had only been on the job two weeks right.
01:42:05 So those are the ways we cooperate and we do it daily. I appreciate it Commissioner. I'm out of time.
01:42:11 I now recognize the gentleman from New Jersey Mr. Menendez for I'll give you five minutes.
01:42:17 Thank you Chairman. I'd like to begin by thanking our witnesses for being here this morning and for
01:42:23 the work you and all of your colleagues do every single day to keep our community safe. And this
01:42:28 week and in this committee I want to focus on some of the bipartisan things we've been able to achieve
01:42:33 in this Congress and some of it thanks to our cyber subcommittee led by Chairman Garbarino
01:42:40 and Ranking Member Swalwell. Deputy Commissioner Mays during your testimony you touched on the
01:42:45 importance of collaboration and responding to cyber related incidents. How does Tennessee
01:42:50 Homeland Security support capacity building efforts to ensure that state and local agencies
01:42:55 have the resources and expertise to effectively respond to cyber related incidents?
01:43:00 Thank you for that question and it's many of many people already know we are in a cyber
01:43:09 conflict right now with nation-state actors. There are cyber attacks ransomware attacks every day.
01:43:14 We partner with the federal government CISA. We're very appreciative of the federal cyber
01:43:24 security grant. Tennessee has set up a state cyber security council where we are making decisions.
01:43:32 The Office of Homeland Security has a seat at that table where we are making decisions on where to
01:43:37 put that money to get the best use. We are partnering with one of the innovative things
01:43:45 we're doing is partnering with our Tennessee colleges of applied technology like trade schools
01:43:50 so that we can we sponsor cyber security training so these students coming up learn about cyber
01:43:57 security training they get a chance to work with us and can maybe pursue a career in that.
01:44:02 The cyber issue is very complex and it's going to take a full nationwide effort to
01:44:09 every day to be successful there. Yeah and I'd love to learn more about that program because
01:44:14 we talk a lot about building the pipeline of cyber security professionals because we're going to need
01:44:18 them at every level of government so I appreciate the collaboration that you've done there. President
01:44:23 Bryant thank you for your testimony this morning. Given the prevalence of mental health crises and
01:44:28 law enforcement interactions how can agencies better collaborate with mental health professionals
01:44:33 and community-based organizations to provide appropriate care and support for individuals
01:44:38 in crisis? Absolutely I think that what we have to do is really come to the table and have a more
01:44:43 in-depth conversation on how we can work more collaboratively to play together. One of the
01:44:50 things and clearly my colleague can attest to is that many of our county jails and prisons have now
01:44:56 become a subset of a mental hospital and so we have to address that because that too has an impact
01:45:04 on how we are responding to crime throughout our community and so having the ability to come
01:45:10 together and come up with a more in-depth way to respond to the community will be beneficial.
01:45:16 I think it would also be helpful for you as well to continue your primary function by shifting some
01:45:20 of those responsibilities away to either community-based organizations or people who are
01:45:24 trained professionals in the mental health space. Would you agree with that? Absolutely I think in
01:45:29 many instances law enforcement officers are just ill-equipped to address the mental issues that
01:45:34 we are encountering on the street and when it becomes a bad situation it becomes even worse
01:45:40 for the community. Well if you see any best practices please come back to us and let us know
01:45:44 so we can work with them at a federal level. I also want to touch on a different issue but coming
01:45:51 back to you President Bryan. You have a great deal of experience working with DHS to get federal
01:45:56 resources for securing major public events like the 2018 college football playoff and the 2019
01:46:01 Super Bowl. In fact you led the command for both events I believe is that correct? That is correct.
01:46:06 Thank you. I want to talk a little bit about your experience with the 2018 college football playoff
01:46:11 which received the second highest special event assessment rating or SEER from DHS. It was a SEER
01:46:17 2 event as you know. That SEER 2 rating brought some federal interagency support to Atlanta which
01:46:23 helped your law enforcement team ensure the safety of everyone at the championship game including the
01:46:27 president. The DHS SEER program has never been authorized by Congress but my colleagues Ms.
01:46:32 Titus of Nevada and Mr. Hudson of North Carolina have a bipartisan bill that would authorize the
01:46:37 SEER program, streamline the rating process and make the program more robust. It is obvious to
01:46:42 me that SEER is an important tool to help state, local, tribal and territorial law enforcement
01:46:47 keep these large public gatherings safe for everyone. In the time that we have remaining,
01:46:52 what in your opinion can Congress do to support law enforcement in these efforts?
01:46:57 So to improve upon this I think again having the collaboration of all our federal partners,
01:47:05 state and local entities coming together to address any large-scale event is very beneficial
01:47:11 to the community as we serve. I had the privilege of leading both events and having a strong
01:47:17 relationship with our federal partners was very beneficial to ensuring that both events went
01:47:23 went off very peacefully. I appreciate that. Thank you all again so much and I yield back.
01:47:27 The gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. D'Esposito from New York for five minutes
01:47:35 questioning. Well thank you Mr. Chairman and good afternoon everyone. Thank you for being here and
01:47:40 thank you for your service to law enforcement and to this country. Mr. Bullock, you mentioned
01:47:45 that even though you are not a border city, the impact of the Biden border crisis has been felt
01:47:55 cities and counties throughout the country and I think that we could agree that we've witnessed
01:48:02 every state become a border state, every city a border city. The mayor of the city of New York
01:48:07 actually said that the migrant situation would "destroy New York City." So I want to ask you,
01:48:13 what impact has the border crisis had specifically on your officers? So the few specific examples
01:48:22 that I have is one we did because of our staffing crisis. We were relying upon state troopers to come
01:48:27 in and to help us in order to support our patrol efforts and in order to tamp down violent crime.
01:48:33 As a result of what's going on at the border, they were diverted away from helping us in order to go
01:48:38 and help secure the southern border so that took away additional resources that we had as a
01:48:43 department to try to help the citizens of Austin. We also deal with it on a fairly regular basis
01:48:48 whether it's as a victim or as a suspect. Difficulties in identifying people. We have
01:48:56 people who come and all we get handed is a passport card, a matricular card, a voting card
01:49:02 that tells us nothing about where they're living currently in the U.S. and so our officers can't
01:49:06 encounter difficulties in investigations and trying to identify people where they are.
01:49:10 And like I said, that could be either as a victim or suspects. We do have people who come here
01:49:16 legally that are engaged in both. And obviously one of the biggest issues that we as law enforcement
01:49:23 have I think throughout this country is recruitment and retention. So we clearly understand that the
01:49:31 anti-police rhetoric and the inability for many elected officials and government agencies across
01:49:39 this country to support law enforcement and give them the resources that they need
01:49:43 has created issues. But what specifically have you seen with your officers with regards to the
01:49:50 migrant situation and its effect on morale and obviously something important I know there's
01:49:55 legislation on the floor this week regard to mental health. But what have you seen happen to
01:50:01 the morale of your men and women with regards to the issues that your department's facing?
01:50:08 I think the number one recruiting asset that we have are the officers that are currently with the
01:50:15 department and when they don't feel valued and when they don't feel like they are appreciated
01:50:20 it's very unlikely they're going to encourage anyone else to undergo the same mental stress.
01:50:24 And so that perpetuates the issue of us having difficulty keeping people in the profession as
01:50:30 well as recruiting people to come into the law enforcement profession. So I think holistically
01:50:35 that's probably one of the most significant impacts that it has is the increased stress levels
01:50:39 and the toll that it takes on officers and their families is it dissuades anyone else from coming
01:50:46 in. So that makes it very difficult for us to get out of the situation. Yeah I would agree you know
01:50:49 I spent a career in the NYPD and I think that we're seeing now you know that's a fire departments,
01:50:57 police departments, their careers that are generational and when you see individuals
01:51:02 whose grandfathers and fathers and great-grandfathers all served in the New York City Police Department
01:51:06 and they're telling their children not to join the ranks I think that we have a serious issue.
01:51:12 Also mentioned in your testimony you talked about the fact that you don't have a sufficient amount
01:51:17 of officers and that your department was previously defunded by 150 million dollars,
01:51:25 cut 150 positions and canceled recruitment classes. Obviously Austin's not alone in places
01:51:35 across New York, luckily not in Nassau and Suffolk County, but there are members of the City Council
01:51:42 in New York City who would love nothing more than to defund the NYPD. So it really goes back to the
01:51:49 to the question that I really have in the last 45 seconds is what can we do better as as Democrats,
01:51:57 as Republicans, as Americans, what can we do to help departments and I know the answer but I think
01:52:03 that people need to hear it. What can we do to help law enforcement agencies from the big ones like
01:52:08 the NYPD and the LAPD to the small ones in small towns? What can we do to help make sure that you
01:52:15 have not only the resources that you need but that you have the officers that want to join your ranks?
01:52:20 I mean the resources is obviously the biggest thing, it's support, it's making sure that
01:52:25 officers know that the work they do is valued, that the work that they do has meaning to it
01:52:30 and that another member mentioned it earlier that officers aren't too interested in politics. We
01:52:37 want to go out, we want to do our job and we want to be able to do that without being used as
01:52:42 political pawns in other people's games and that's what we deal with with rogue prosecutors in a
01:52:47 variety of other different ways. So the support is the biggest thing as well as quite honestly
01:52:52 addressing some of the things we we may not have an issue if funding were taken away, if
01:52:56 responsibilities were taken with it, if some of the mental health issues were taken on by other
01:53:00 agencies and not given to us, it may not be as big of an issue. Well thank you, my time's expired but
01:53:05 I appreciate all of you and I value you, I appreciate you and I hope you all stay safe. Mr.
01:53:10 Chairman, I yield back. Gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. Suozzi, the gentleman from New York.
01:53:17 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me first start by welcoming my colleague Senator Tim Kennedy, now
01:53:22 Congressman Kennedy, to Washington. He's a great public servant, he's done a fantastic job in New
01:53:27 York State and I know he'll do a fantastic job here in the United States Congress and he's going
01:53:32 to make a lot of friends here because of the seriousness with which he takes his job. I want
01:53:37 to thank all the witnesses for being here today. We really appreciate the time that you've taken
01:53:41 to help to educate us. I know you listen to a lot of this stuff back and forth and you wonder what
01:53:46 makes sense because people are just trying to score political points on both sides of this and
01:53:50 we've got to start working together more to try and solve the problems we face in our country and
01:53:54 we've really got to all support law enforcement. I was the mayor of a small city, my hometown of
01:54:00 Glen Cove, and I was the county executive of Nassau County where I oversaw the 11th largest
01:54:05 police force in the United States of America where we reduced the crime rate to the lowest of any
01:54:10 community in the nation, over 500,000 people. And I know what an important job you do. I know the
01:54:16 challenges you're facing right now because of all the attacks that have been made on law enforcement
01:54:22 over the years. It's not fair, it's not right, there are people trying to do their jobs. One
01:54:26 of the dumbest statements that's ever been created anywhere in our country that is misused so often
01:54:31 is this defund the police idea. It's an awful, terrible idea. If anything, I think that most
01:54:37 people in the United States Congress agree upon is we need to figure out how to get more money
01:54:41 to law enforcement and I think that there are extremists on both sides. Some people that want
01:54:47 to defund the police, other people want to defund the FBI, people want to cut the COPS program.
01:54:52 We need to get more money for law enforcement and I think most people on both sides of the aisle
01:54:58 believe on that, believe in that. Do we need to fund the police? Yes. Is mental health a problem?
01:55:05 Mr. Bryan, I think I was just saying, I've read statistics over the year,
01:55:08 75 percent of the people in jail have a drug, alcohol, or mental health problem.
01:55:12 75 percent of the people in jail have a drug, alcohol, or mental health problem. And those
01:55:18 are problems we need to address earlier in life before everything blows up into a crisis. We need
01:55:24 to go after bad actors. Are there bad actors in the police department? Yeah, there are. But the
01:55:28 large, large, overwhelming majority of law enforcement officials are good people trying
01:55:33 to do the right thing to make the world a better place to live in and our society would not exist
01:55:38 without the good work of law enforcement. So in thanking you, I'm thanking everybody you represent
01:55:44 in law enforcement. So what can we do with the federal government? One size is not going to fit
01:55:48 all. You've got these little small communities, you've got these big communities, you've got
01:55:50 border communities, non-border communities, you've got places with heavy drugs where they want to
01:55:55 carry, like Mr. Jimenez was saying earlier, AR-15s and body armor, and you've got little
01:55:59 small towns as well. One of the great things that happened when I was the mayor of Glen Cove was the
01:56:03 COPS program that President Clinton did. They wanted to put 100,000 more cops on the streets
01:56:09 and we could get a grant to bring more cops into our local little police department. It was a
01:56:13 fantastic program. I want to know, would you support the idea of funding for grants to hire
01:56:19 more officers or buy equipment or do whatever you think is right for your department? Would you like
01:56:23 to see the federal government provide more money for law enforcement? I'll just ask you all quickly.
01:56:28 Mr. Bays, would you like to see more money from the federal government for law enforcement?
01:56:31 Yes, sir. Absolutely. Mr. Chapman? Of course. Mr. Bullock? Absolutely. Mr. Bryant? Yes. We all
01:56:38 agree. Everybody agrees we need more money from the federal government for law enforcement.
01:56:42 Now, one of the things, I can't talk about all the things, but one of the things we can do at
01:56:45 the federal level in addition to providing funding is to try and address laws that would fill holes
01:56:52 that exist in some communities. Mr. Bays, I was very interested to listen to you earlier. It
01:56:57 sounded like you support red flag laws, the idea of a police officer or a family member or somebody
01:57:04 being able to go before a law enforcement official like a judge and say, "Listen, this person should
01:57:09 really not have a gun. We need to take this gun away from that person." Go through due process,
01:57:14 go through a procedure, but have professionals testify and take guns away from people that
01:57:19 shouldn't really have guns. Do you believe in red flag laws? I don't use the term red flag laws
01:57:26 because it's loaded language that gets people all upset, but extreme risk protection orders,
01:57:32 the ability to take a weapon with due process available, someone who is mentally ill or
01:57:38 unstable or we believe has capability and intent. The governor of Tennessee
01:57:43 proposed something like that. It didn't go, but so I would answer yes, but with the different words.
01:57:52 And the words you use are high, say it again? Extreme risk protection orders.
01:57:57 So I know you have extreme risk protection orders type of laws in Virginia already,
01:58:01 Mr. Chapman, so I'm not going to ask you, but I want to ask Mr. Bullock. You don't have those
01:58:05 in Texas. Do you think we should have that as a nationwide basis? I believe there's value in
01:58:09 providing additional layers of protection in Texas. One of the situations that was mentioned,
01:58:14 if we do place someone on an emergency commitment due to mental health, we have the ability to seize
01:58:18 the firearm, but it's temporary. It only lasts for maybe a week, depending upon, you know,
01:58:24 a variety of different circumstances, but the ability to make sure that individuals we know
01:58:28 are at risk don't have access to weapons, I think is valuable. It'd be great if we had
01:58:32 extreme risk protection laws nationwide, I believe. I just wanted to try and get some support from the
01:58:37 different witnesses here today. Thank you so much. Appreciate your time. I yield back,
01:58:41 Mr. Chairman. The gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. Higgins, the chairman of the order
01:58:46 subcommittee, for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank our panelists for being here
01:58:54 today. I'm honored and humbled to be a brother of the Thin Blue Line. Long ago, as a younger man,
01:59:04 I served in the United States Army as a military police officer, and then later in life
01:59:10 as a civilian police officer in my home state of Louisiana for many years. I maintained my
01:59:19 post certification through the Louisiana State Attorney General's office. I'm a cop as I sit
01:59:26 in front of you today. This is a week in Washington, D.C., this bizarre realm of Washington,
01:59:34 D.C., where there's a great cacophony of support across the political spectrums for law enforcement.
01:59:45 You'll hear political testimony and agenda-driven questions like
01:59:54 how to trick panelists into supporting red flag laws, where in the limited time available,
02:00:05 you just don't have the time or the venue here to go into it as to why we oppose such things.
02:00:15 And the actual existence of—Mr. Suozzi has left the room, but in the state of Louisiana,
02:00:24 we have the authority law enforcement that takes guns out of houses all the time under
02:00:31 protective order, under investigation of an ongoing criminal allegation.
02:00:40 And that property receipt is turned over to the spouse or whatever. Sometimes at the request of
02:00:47 the spouse, you remove firearms from a residence. These laws and protections already exist.
02:00:56 The problem is when you force them from the federal government into the sovereign states and
02:01:04 municipalities. This is where you have major issues and infringement of Second Amendment rights.
02:01:11 So, moving on, Mr. Bollick, you're from Austin, Texas, correct, sir? Yes, sir.
02:01:21 And I would like for you to speak, if you don't mind, regarding the impact of the border crisis.
02:01:30 You're a couple hundred miles from the border there, and we know, of course, that the invasion
02:01:38 at the southern border, the disintegration of our sovereignty at the southern border has affected
02:01:43 the entire country. But would you speak to the impact in your community that the border crisis
02:01:49 has had in your city, your police department? It's had an impact, not just from a resource aspect,
02:01:59 but our population continues to grow through a variety of different circumstances. But we've
02:02:07 relied upon the state to help us, and the state's resources have had to be diverted to the southern
02:02:11 border. We also have issues when it comes to identifying individuals, when it comes to
02:02:17 following up, when people report crimes, or when people commit crimes. About response to complaints,
02:02:25 911 calls, response times, they continue to go up. We've struggled with that for
02:02:32 several years now. So, your citizenry that's accustomed to having access to police assistance,
02:02:38 or things like domestic disturbances, break-ins, burglaries, etc., suspicious people on their
02:02:47 property, things of that nature, are they having to wait because your officers and your
02:02:55 deputies in your community are doing other stuff? Either wait or not get a response at all.
02:03:01 There are numerous instances where we quit. Unfortunately, this is happening across the
02:03:06 country. Sheriff Chapman, in my remaining 30 seconds, sir, would you touch on the impact of
02:03:15 the cartel pipelines, human trafficking, and drug trafficking into your community?
02:03:24 I would say that, as I mentioned before, the biggest problem that we've seen there is the
02:03:29 fentanyl problem, which is impacting us, starting to impact our community at younger ages, and I
02:03:36 think that's the biggest aspect that's represented by the open borders there, with an increase in
02:03:43 that. So, we are starting to see that. I think our crime rate is starting to tick up a little bit.
02:03:50 We're still doing pretty good in our particular area, but it does concern me, the open borders
02:03:55 and the impact that's happening across the country certainly is more significant, but
02:04:01 in our community, we're still doing pretty well. Thank you, Sheriff. Mr. Chairman, my time has
02:04:05 expired. The gentleman yields. I now recognize Mr. Kennedy, the gentleman from New York, for five
02:04:10 minutes, questioning. Thank you very much. First of all, Chairman Green and Ranking Member
02:04:20 Thompson, thank you for holding this hearing today. Also, I'd like to recognize the service
02:04:28 of Congressman Donald Payne Jr., who passed away far too soon just a few weeks ago, served on this
02:04:35 committee so nobly, and leaves behind an incredible legacy for over a decade. He honorably served
02:04:43 and fought for his constituents in Newark, New Jersey. Yesterday, May 14th, was the second
02:04:51 anniversary of the Topps supermarket shooting in Buffalo, New York, my hometown.
02:04:56 An attack that struck the heart of our city and really of our nation. Racist, white supremacist
02:05:08 gunmen came to Buffalo armed with an AR-15 style rifle covered in disgusting racist messages
02:05:17 and attacked citizens that were simply going to the supermarket on a beautiful Saturday afternoon,
02:05:27 taking 10 beautiful souls while it was streamed online in over a matter of minutes.
02:05:36 One of the victims was Lieutenant Aaron Salter Jr., a retired Buffalo police officer working
02:05:44 at Topps as an armed security guard. And when the shooter came in,
02:05:49 Lieutenant Salter didn't hesitate and returned fire, hitting his target.
02:05:59 But because of the enhanced body armor, the shooter was unharmed and murdered Lieutenant Salter.
02:06:08 Lieutenant Aaron Salter Jr.'s courageous actions bought precious seconds for store patrons and
02:06:16 employees to escape, saving lives at the expense of his own. And he serves as a true testament to
02:06:24 the sacrifices that police officers make for their communities and we're grateful for his
02:06:29 historic actions. I also want to recognize all law enforcement, this being National Police Week.
02:06:37 The grandson of a Buffalo police officer myself, I recognize the sacrifices that families make on
02:06:46 a daily basis as their loved ones go off and put themselves in harm's way.
02:06:54 I want to talk about enhanced body armor and I have questions for our panelists and I thank the
02:06:59 panelists for your testimony today and your lifelong commitment to protecting our streets
02:07:06 across this country. As I described the situation that played out in Buffalo just over two years ago,
02:07:12 we know that Lieutenant Aaron Salter Jr. died a hero and embodied everything that police officers
02:07:21 across the nation stand for. He used his training to help others. Because of that body armor,
02:07:29 he was unable to stop the perpetrator in that moment. I would like to ask each of you in your
02:07:38 respective capacities to believe that enhanced body armor should be readily available for citizens
02:07:45 who are not law enforcement. Thank you for the question, Congressman. It's something I haven't
02:07:55 considered before. I would suppose there are opinions on both sides. Body armor also provides
02:08:02 safety for people who are doing shooting sports. I would hesitate to say people can't have it,
02:08:06 but I don't have a clear answer for you on that. This would be enhanced body armor,
02:08:11 level three body armor, military style grade. Again, I don't have an answer for you. Thank you.
02:08:19 Sheriff? That's an interesting question and I don't know if I have an answer either, although
02:08:26 if somebody's going to purchase that, it would certainly be nice for us to know and have that
02:08:30 information available in the event that we have to encounter that person at a later time. Thank you.
02:08:39 I'm kind of in the we're all in a similar boat, I'm going to imagine, where it's not a question
02:08:44 that's yet been posed. You know, we're here obviously to protect people's rights and their
02:08:49 ability to purchase what is legal for them to do so, but obviously it's concerning when it
02:08:57 impedes our ability to enforce the law. So I think there's a balance that has to be found in all of
02:09:01 that. I would agree that more conversation would need to be had as it relates to it.
02:09:09 It is concerning when people can use that level of equipment in a criminal act.
02:09:16 I yield my time. Thank you.
02:09:19 Gentleman yields. I now recognize the chairman of the counterterrorism subcommittee, Mr. Fluger,
02:09:26 the gentleman who's been in the back seat for five minutes questioning.
02:09:28 Thank you, Mr. Chairman, as well as the law enforcement subcommittee and
02:09:34 especially in this week, I want to say thank you to all those who serve. Sheriff and all of you in
02:09:41 your respective jobs as part of the law enforcement community, thank you. I think one of the reasons
02:09:49 that we're having this hearing is to express our appreciation to make sure that even in some
02:09:57 communities where law enforcement may not feel as appreciated, and Mr. Bullock, I'll talk to you
02:10:03 about that specifically in Austin, Texas, what we want to do today is to say thank you across the
02:10:11 nation to our law enforcement personnel, to the families that support them and allow them to put
02:10:18 that uniform on every single day to protect and serve. And I know that when I spoke to our
02:10:24 sheriff's department and a police department, those that are DPS troopers, just on Monday,
02:10:30 that's exactly what I told them was thank you for the service that you all do. Mr. Bullock,
02:10:35 I'll start with you. We have a tragedy of untold and immeasurable
02:10:43 negative aspects that's unfolding at our southern border for the past three and a half years,
02:10:50 and this committee in particular has held multiple hearings on that. What I'd like to ask you is in
02:10:55 Austin, Texas, tell us about the impact of transnational criminal organizations, cartel
02:11:02 activity, human trafficking, drug trafficking. How has that impacted Austin, Texas?
02:11:08 Well, I think the sheriff mentioned it earlier as well, but the influx of new drugs is a major
02:11:18 concern as well as when you talk about human trafficking and organized crime activity,
02:11:23 they're very resource-intensive investigations. And unfortunately, those are resources we lack
02:11:31 at the moment, which impedes our ability to fully investigate and leads to a likelihood that we're
02:11:37 not going to be able to investigate everything. So my concern overall is that as you deal with
02:11:42 more complex crime, as you deal with an influx of individuals who are engaged in criminal activity
02:11:48 and very serious when you're talking about trafficking individuals, that we don't have
02:11:53 the resources to appropriately interdict and to stop that kind of activity.
02:11:58 And there was a lack of political will as well inside Travis County, specifically inside Austin.
02:12:04 Has that been reversed? Do you feel supported by local leaders as far as the prosecution goes of
02:12:10 these crimes that you're referencing? No, we have yet to see that reversed.
02:12:14 That's really unfortunate. A lot of those officers have come to St. Angelo and Midland,
02:12:18 Odessa, where I live, because they do feel supported there.
02:12:21 Sheriff, I noticed in your testimony you referenced your time as a DEA agent. So I'll
02:12:26 ask you the same question. When it comes to fentanyl and other illicit drugs that are coming
02:12:30 across the southern border, how has that impacted you, the job that you're in right now,
02:12:35 the community that you serve? And then, you know, maybe give us an idea of what this looks like over
02:12:41 the past couple of years, 20 years in your time in service, and how bad is it right now?
02:12:47 Well, as I mentioned before, I served all over the country, but I served in Miami back in the
02:12:52 1980s, and I thought I'd seen the worst of the drug problem back then as a special agent.
02:12:56 It's far worse now because, you know, we've had over, for the last three years now, I believe,
02:13:00 over 100,000 people that have died from overdoses. So the tragedy associated with it in a different
02:13:06 way, it's not organizations competing for product share. It's just people dying because they're
02:13:12 being fed this fentanyl. I can tell you that in Loudoun County, we're very proactive. We've had
02:13:19 several fentanyl forums. We're out there all the time. We're working with the schools. We're doing
02:13:22 everything that we can. And I mentioned earlier that we're seeing a decrease in the ages of people
02:13:29 that are using fentanyl. Overdoses are starting to go down to the teenage level, which we hadn't
02:13:35 seen a couple years ago. It started with heroin, then it's fentanyl, and now it's almost all pure
02:13:40 fentanyl now. So it does really concern me here. And then I look at the problem nationally, and I
02:13:46 always, when I give my presentations, I say if you were to fill up the Washington Commander Stadium,
02:13:51 every single one of those seats probably still wouldn't have the amount of people that died
02:13:56 from overdoses last year. So it is critical that we address this issue. We've got to be proactive
02:14:02 on it with the education, Narcan, and all these other things that we do that we're very active on.
02:14:08 But also to hold these people accountable and stop whatever we can at the border.
02:14:13 Do you think there's accountability at the border right now?
02:14:15 I think it's the poorest border, so no, I don't think we're having the accountability we need
02:14:21 down there. To our other two witnesses, I'm sorry we didn't have time to come to you again. Thank
02:14:26 you for being here. And I'll reiterate, thank you to all that serve, all those who serve and their
02:14:32 families for sacrificing so much for the safety of our communities. And it is my sincere hope that
02:14:39 we will actually get back to accountability with that. Mr. Chairman, I yield. The gentleman yields.
02:14:43 I now recognize the gentlelady from Georgia, Mrs. Green, for five minutes of questioning.
02:14:47 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I'd like to thank you all for coming to our committee today,
02:14:53 and thank you for the job that you do. Today I'd like to begin by honoring a police officer in my
02:14:58 district who died in the line of duty after being exposed to fentanyl during an arrest.
02:15:03 Corporal Christopher Jackson Dye spent his life in service to our nation and to the community of
02:15:09 Northwest Georgia. He committed 12 years of service to the Army, followed by many years of
02:15:15 law enforcement in Walker County. In November 2020, Corporal Dye was conducting an arrest when
02:15:21 he was exposed to fentanyl. The arrest tragically resulted in his passing away from a heart attack
02:15:28 associated with the fentanyl exposure. This week we honor him, along with many other brave men and
02:15:34 women who have died in the line of duty serving our communities. Their commitment to their jobs
02:15:41 should always be remembered. Fentanyl is the number one killer of Americans between the ages
02:15:47 of 18 and 45. It kills approximately 300 Americans a day, every day. In counties throughout the 14th
02:15:54 district from 2019 to 2022, fentanyl deaths increased by over 350 percent. This is something
02:16:03 I know that you gentlemen deal with far too often. According to the Georgia Narcotics Association,
02:16:10 approximately seven out of ten pills on the street are laced with fentanyl coming across
02:16:16 the southern border. I'd like to ask each of you, is this something that you're having to deal with
02:16:22 as well? Thank you. Yes, short answer is yes. The drug problem that you're speaking of is
02:16:29 prevalent in Tennessee, along with the human trafficking element that is a part of that also.
02:16:34 Absolutely. The poorest border is basically the cause for all this fentanyl going through the
02:16:42 United States. Austin is something we deal with on a daily basis all throughout the day.
02:16:46 Fentanyl is an issue that law enforcement is dealing with throughout the country.
02:16:52 Yeah, thank you for that. Also, you know, for many years in the past, we used to hear young men and
02:16:59 women say that they wanted to be a police officer when they grew up, but unfortunately, we're not
02:17:05 hearing that as much anymore. Law enforcement agencies across the country experienced a wave
02:17:10 of retirements and departures and are struggling to recruit the next generation of police officers
02:17:16 in the years following the BLM and Antifa riots, where we saw police attacked night after night,
02:17:22 continuously, all summer. Over 93 police cars were burned and over $2 billion in damages
02:17:30 were wrought in communities all over America. The rate of retirements in some departments rose 45%
02:17:38 with the previous year, according to research on nearly 200 law enforcement agencies.
02:17:43 At the same time, hiring slowed by 5%. The wave had come as local lawmakers and federal lawmakers
02:17:51 pledged to enact reforms on police, such as ending the policies that give officers immunity for their
02:17:58 actions while on duty. Studies show there has been a 44% increase in retirements and an 18%
02:18:04 increase in resignations in police departments. In Atlanta, the department has been down 400 to
02:18:11 500 officers over the past three years. One officer who left Atlanta said, "Basically,
02:18:17 we're one bullet away from death and one mistake away from indictment, so why roll the dice with
02:18:24 my future when I can go do something else?" These are the saddest statements that I think we can
02:18:31 hear coming from police officers feeling that they're forced into retirement because no one
02:18:36 is supporting them on the job. In their exit interviews, many of them cited the defund
02:18:43 movement and lack of support from local elected officials as a reason for leaving their departments
02:18:49 and leaving law enforcement completely. But now with the Biden administration's open border policies,
02:18:54 it's opened our border to tens of millions of people from over 160 countries all over the world
02:19:02 and a steady flow of human and drug trafficking, police in America are now on the front lines
02:19:07 facing new and staggering dangers in every community all over America. I'd like to again
02:19:14 ask each of you, can you tell us, is it difficult to hire new recruits to be police officers?
02:19:22 I would say to give you a brief answer that the difficulties you're describing are similar
02:19:29 issues are being faced in Tennessee for law enforcement agencies across the state.
02:19:33 I can't speak for nationally, which I think you have spoken for, which is a problem. Loudon County,
02:19:42 we're actually doing pretty well and a lot of that has to do with the fact that I'm an elected
02:19:45 official of a full service sheriff's office and I answer directly to the people.
02:19:48 And even though I'm an elected official, I'm not, we run an apolitical shop and we support
02:19:55 the constitution and that's what we do. And so I don't have, I don't have political agendas
02:19:58 driving what we do in the law enforcement community. So it actually works out well
02:20:02 for our community. I'm happy to hear that.
02:20:04 In Austin and I'd say in the major city centers across Texas, yes, we are dealing with those
02:20:11 issues. As a matter of fact, we tend to lose officers. We have a lot of officers that are
02:20:16 in the police department. As a matter of fact, we tend to lose officers from our department
02:20:20 that will go to a smaller department because it has a more positive environment that they
02:20:26 feel supported in that they want to go there.
02:20:28 I spoke to Chief Shubham just recently as it relates to Atlanta Police Department and they
02:20:35 are seeing improvements as it relates to recruitment. Having discussion with other
02:20:40 police chiefs throughout the country, what we are seeing is those numbers begin to stabilize
02:20:45 and we are seeing that as a result of the unique effort to recruit and challenge differently
02:20:50 in their spaces of recruitment. So we are all hopeful.
02:20:53 Well, I certainly hope so. I think supporting our police officers is the most important
02:20:59 thing that we can do, especially as elected officials. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield
02:21:03 back.
02:21:04 The gentlelady yields. I now recognize Mr. Latrell for five minutes.
02:21:08 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You know, as we honor the thin blue line of police officers that
02:21:13 say thank you, so the world can understand it. In the military, it is Mr. Crane and the
02:21:20 Chairman, four deployed overseas in a theater of war in the past 20 years when we were fighting
02:21:25 in multiple areas. They throw on their body armor, they grab the rifle, they go out the
02:21:30 wire, they do the things they do and they come home. They redeploy back to the United
02:21:35 States to take the armor off. They are able to relax. They are able to spend time with
02:21:39 their families. They are able to repatriate and cool down. And I think what is lost sometimes
02:21:45 is that the men and women that wear the shield wake up every morning, they kiss their loved
02:21:52 ones goodbye, and they walk out that front door with their badge and their weapon system
02:21:55 and they deploy out their front door every single day. Now, you hear the statistics in
02:22:01 the military of the cognitive and the physical struggles of combat and what that does to
02:22:06 the human body. And those are six months at a time. And over a period of 10 to 20 years,
02:22:11 you do multiple deployments, five, six, 10, and then you are expected to come back and
02:22:15 there is a healing process. There is no off ramp for the law enforcement officers. 10,
02:22:20 20, 30, 40 years, you deploy out your front door every single day to every single conflict
02:22:25 in your area. You know the most astonishing thing that most people do not realize either
02:22:29 is every single person, 330 million people in the continental United States have your
02:22:33 phone number. My seven-year-old son has your phone number. And if something goes wrong,
02:22:39 he is going to call you and you will respond. And I think what has happened is the narrative
02:22:45 has changed in a way that law enforcement has in some way become the bad guys and girls.
02:22:52 And it breaks my heart to say that. And I do not believe that, but it is just something
02:22:56 that it kind of resonates in the media and the social media and the platforms that you
02:22:59 see and the defunding police. And how did this happen? Everybody has a bad actor. Everybody
02:23:04 has a bad day. People do stupid things. And do you blame the entire establishment for
02:23:10 a bad day at the office? You know, you see that debated in this committee here today and in
02:23:17 Congress and in your local law enforcement agencies. But I think we need to take a step
02:23:21 back in the American public and understand that the thin blue line is something that is very real.
02:23:28 It is those men and women that no matter the circumstances, no matter what you see
02:23:32 every day, no matter what you hear, no matter what you feel in your heart. You know how amazing
02:23:36 it would be if you could take your eyes out of your head and put it in the American public's eyes
02:23:40 and your ears and your heart and say, "Now, see, now you see what I see. Now you hear what I hear.
02:23:46 Now you feel what I feel. And I am coming for you to help you regardless. And you may hate me
02:23:52 every second of the way, but I'll be there for you." And it's just tragic in a way that you,
02:23:59 law enforcement should be the most revered asset in our nation because you're there to save our
02:24:04 lives. You're there to do the things that most people don't want to do. You go running in that
02:24:08 direction. And that's the best way I can say thank you. I hope it resonates with you. I don't have
02:24:15 any questions for you. As it gets, it'll always get worse before it gets better. And the only
02:24:21 thing that I ask is you don't leave. You don't walk away from us. As hard as it gets and the
02:24:27 funding goes up and down and people do the things that they do, but every time you go home and you
02:24:32 see your loved ones and your kids and you say, "Man, this is the worst day of my entire life,"
02:24:37 get up the next morning and go, "I'm going to do it again." Because if you don't,
02:24:41 I don't even know where to go with that. But God bless each and every one of you. Thank you.
02:24:47 I yield back, sir. Gentlemen, yields. This fun transition, I now recognize myself
02:24:57 for five minutes. We want to thank all of you again for being here. Sincere gratitude for what
02:25:07 you do, what you believe in, the rule of law, the services that are provided to this country,
02:25:13 what you represent. We honor your courage. We honor those who have lost their lives
02:25:20 doing what I can't imagine. It's one thing to leave your family for extended periods of time.
02:25:27 It's another thing to leave your family knowing when you walk out that door whether or not
02:25:31 that day's circumstances would allow you to reenter that family dynamic.
02:25:36 This week, of course, we're recognizing law enforcement and police during police week.
02:25:41 And we acknowledge these challenges. And our nation is facing a crisis because of a culture
02:25:48 of lawlessness that's been advanced because of a belief system that's taken hold. And it's a
02:25:55 rebellious type atmosphere that highest leaders of our country are bolstering because we're not
02:26:05 in solidarity standing up for respect of authority, respect of the rule of law. And we see this,
02:26:13 you know, with the defund the police movement. It's, you know, just wreaking havoc. It's,
02:26:19 uh, as I've listened this morning, you all talking about your recruitment,
02:26:23 lack of ability to encourage for the just the loss of morale, knowing that people from the
02:26:30 highest positions of authority have your back. Specifically, what I hear in Oklahoma is our
02:26:35 flood of drugs that come into this country with this, you know, heightened because of what's
02:26:43 happening at the southern border. In Oklahoma, sadly, we had an initiative petition that,
02:26:48 under the guise of recreational marijuana, brought marijuana in Oklahoma. I'm not proud of this stat.
02:26:54 I don't think it is a majority. You will find there's there's pride in this of Oklahomans.
02:26:58 But we export more marijuana than any other state because of this ballot initiative that came in.
02:27:04 And it's the tie then for the cartel seizing upon that and sending drugs into our state. So let me
02:27:11 let me do this for Sheriff Chapman and President Bullock. How has this problem of
02:27:23 drugs flowing in affected you and what you're seeing?
02:27:26 We had to address the community directly with regards to the overdoses that we saw at the
02:27:36 school. We had nine overdoses in a period of about three weeks of students that were
02:27:41 affiliated or the students at the school, four of which happened in the school,
02:27:45 three of which required Narcan, two of which required CPR. So it was quite serious.
02:27:52 And what we find is that there's a reluctance to try to get that information out. We did our
02:27:58 own press release and it caused a little bit of a stir. But what that did was it really prompted
02:28:04 Governor Yonkin to immediately put an executive order and require a 24-hour notification
02:28:10 of two parents of that school in the event that somebody overdosed. That was then later put
02:28:18 forward as legislation and it didn't really pass the way it should have passed with the 24-hour
02:28:23 notification, which which was actually taken out, which was the whole purpose of the bill.
02:28:27 But it does impact us in the sense that, as I mentioned earlier, we're seeing younger people
02:28:32 doing this. We want to protect our children. We want to make sure we've got a safe community.
02:28:36 And that's my biggest concern is with the fentanyl, the proliferation of it,
02:28:40 the availability of it and the impact that it's having on our youth.
02:28:44 Mr. Bullock, can I transition? And just because I actually have a question, I think it's
02:28:49 that I can help me move the narrative given the limited time. You talked about the morale issue.
02:28:57 I think earlier today you talked about since 2018, you've had a loss of more officers
02:29:02 than you've had the ability to recruit them. And so, number one, would you speak to how defund
02:29:09 the police movement has impacted the morale? And then talk about the dollar loss that you've also
02:29:16 seen that's contributed. Well, I'd say it's all tied together because the defunding movement,
02:29:24 as well as the taking away of money from our department overall, means that we have less.
02:29:29 When you say, I apologize for interrupting, when you're talking about the loss of funding,
02:29:34 specifically you're addressing your state, the state of Texas, having to shift resources to
02:29:40 secure our southern border, billions of dollars, federal responsibility. And that is having an
02:29:45 impact because the state is no longer able to help you financially as they were prior.
02:29:49 That's correct. It's a correct characterization. But when you're talking about the defunding
02:29:54 movement overall, a lot of it ties into everything else that you're talking about in that we have
02:29:59 people that do not support officers when they are trying to enforce the law. And so the arrests that
02:30:03 they make are tossed out by prosecutors. And so people wind up re-offending. There's no
02:30:08 accountability for criminal activity. And so there's a perpetuation of crime that's going on
02:30:14 that is leading to no type of intervention. And that ties in directly with fentanyl overdoses.
02:30:18 It ties in with officers being exposed to deadly substances. And that all has a dramatic effect on
02:30:24 how officers feel they're able to do their job, almost to the comment of, well, what's the point?
02:30:30 Well, thank you so very much. You think you're sitting in the chair, you could yield yourself
02:30:34 more time, but I won't do that to my colleague who's next. And so thank you for answering those
02:30:38 questions. With that, I will yield the gentleman from Arizona, Eli Crane, his five minutes.
02:30:46 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, gentlemen, for coming today. Thank you for your service.
02:30:52 And I also want to say thank you to the men and women that you're here representing today.
02:30:58 I want to take a minute to honor the courage and resilience of my constituent,
02:31:02 Sergeant Preston Brogdon. The Sergeant, a former Marine veteran and a member of a police force in
02:31:10 Yavapai County, was shot in the line of duty a little over two years ago. He is a true hero.
02:31:16 In the face of danger, Sergeant Brogdon selflessly placed himself in harm's way
02:31:21 to protect his community. His unwavering commitment to duty was evident on that fateful
02:31:27 day in 2022 when he was shot, narrowly escaping a potentially fatal wound. The following months
02:31:35 were filled with surgeries and extensive physical therapy. He inspired many on his road to recovery,
02:31:41 but his road has not been easy and he continues to navigate what comes next for him and his family.
02:31:46 He was recently fired by the Yavapai Apache Nation Police Department.
02:31:51 Despite facing this adversity, he remains steadfast in his recovery, demonstrating
02:31:56 remarkable strength and determination. I bring him up today because I don't want his story to
02:32:01 be forgotten. Folks like Preston, who sacrificed for our safety, need to know that we stand with
02:32:08 them, especially when things get messy. I'm in awe of Sergeant Brogdon's bravery and resilience,
02:32:14 and it should serve as a shining example to us all. His legacy of courage and boldness
02:32:20 will forever be remembered with honor and gratitude.
02:32:23 We've talked a little bit about this on this panel, gentlemen, about red flag laws and even
02:32:35 whether or not the citizens of this country should be allowed to have body armor. So I got a question
02:32:42 for you, and you know, I apologize, but do you guys believe that the constitutional rights of
02:32:50 Americans should be dismissed when it increases the operational efficiency and safety protections
02:32:58 for law enforcement? Mr. Mays, I'm going to start with you. No, I do not. Thank you, Mr. Chapman.
02:33:06 I'm sorry, could you repeat the question? Yes, sir. Do you believe that the constitutional
02:33:11 rights of Americans should be dismissed when it increases the operational efficiency
02:33:19 and safety protections of law enforcement? No, I'm sworn to uphold the Constitution. That's right.
02:33:25 Mr. Bullock? I echo the same thing. We take an oath as well to uphold the Constitution. Mr. Bryant?
02:33:30 I agree. We have a responsibility to the Constitution. The reason I bring that up is
02:33:37 because I constantly hear arguments, usually coming from the other side, and though often I
02:33:43 think they're well intended, it's this constant push-pull that we deal with up here, whether we're
02:33:49 talking about firearms, whether we're talking about body armor, which I heard about today,
02:33:56 or whether we're talking about FISA and whether or not that whole system should be reformed. And so
02:34:02 I want to challenge you gentlemen, as I thanked you earlier for your service, to make sure that
02:34:08 we're not, as subject matter experts and people that are often leaned on for their advice
02:34:14 when it comes to protecting American citizens, that we hold that those constitutional rights
02:34:20 paramount, even though at times it makes it harder for you to do your job.
02:34:24 And I want to yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
02:34:30 The gentleman yields. I now recognize Ranking Member Thompson for closing remarks.
02:34:38 Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Let me thank our witnesses for your expert testimony. I think
02:34:45 what you do every day reflects very clearly what you shared with us. I can say that for the
02:34:54 Democrats on this committee, we've never ever voted against law enforcement. The non-profit
02:35:03 program for churches and houses of worship, legislation we promoted. And we started off with
02:35:11 just synagogues, but then we made it available to mosques and just other houses of worship in
02:35:20 general, because we have a fundamental belief that in America, everyone ought to be safe.
02:35:29 And whether I'm a Muslim or a Jew or a Christian, in our mind, you should be safe. The other thing is,
02:35:39 the training that was talked about today is absolutely essential. In addition to being a
02:35:47 hunter, I'm a volunteer fireman. I used to show up on scenes in mutual aid, and the equipment that
02:35:56 we had didn't match the equipment that the department we were backing up. Sheriff, I know
02:36:02 you can appreciate this. We used to have frequencies that certain departments would have that the others
02:36:10 didn't have. And so we've come a long way, especially after 9/11. We've said that first
02:36:18 responders have to have the ability to communicate. So if there's the police, fire, or whomever,
02:36:26 they should be talking to each other. The public expects and assumes that that's what's happening
02:36:32 anyway. Well, in 20 plus years, we've made that happen because we said to law enforcement,
02:36:42 if you want federal monies, you're going to have to solve the interoperability problem.
02:36:48 And so that's helped. 9/11, the police in New York had difficulty communicating with the fire
02:36:57 department. So we lost a lot of people. We've invested a lot. The COPS program, wonderful
02:37:03 program. We've used it in my district, and it continues to work. The fusion centers you talked
02:37:11 about, it is clear those fusion centers we created here in Congress and working with state and
02:37:19 locals, and now they're an integral part of how we protect and serve the general public. And
02:37:27 if you want a real fight, you talk about doing away with them. The last thing, I can't stress
02:37:34 training. Training is absolutely essential. We need to share facilities in the training.
02:37:43 I encourage you to do that. To Mr. Bryant's comments, we have to do a better job of recruiting
02:37:55 everyone into law enforcement. It can't just be a particular group. Law enforcement,
02:38:03 they're all protecting Americans and upholding the Constitution. And the Constitution,
02:38:08 I've been told is colorblind. It's the application of the law that creates the problem. And if we do
02:38:17 it in that respect, I think we all will be better because of it. So we thank you all
02:38:26 for your testimony. My comments about January 6th were twofold. I was in the Capitol on January 6th
02:38:35 and could not get out for almost four hours because of what was happening. The only way
02:38:40 most of us survived was because of the law enforcement presence in the Capitol protecting
02:38:49 those of us who were just trying to certify an election. But I also had the responsibility
02:38:55 of chairing the January 6th Select Committee. I tried to present a picture of exactly what happened.
02:39:02 It didn't take sides, but also in law enforcement, you just, just the facts. And we tried to present
02:39:10 the facts. That's what we did. And ultimately, we presented a report. I take issue that people
02:39:17 who break the law, I don't care who they are, they're not hostages. They're crooks. They're
02:39:23 felons. And if they are so adjudicated, then they go to jail, plain and simple. So apart from that,
02:39:31 again, let me thank the witnesses for your expert presentation. And if we have any questions,
02:39:38 we'll submit them for your response. Thank you much.
02:39:43 The gentleman yields. Now for the chairman's closing remarks. Let me just say again, thank you
02:39:53 on behalf of the committee for your time. And thank you again for what you represent.
02:39:57 I think most of us see, I heard it even recently, you know, in the last few moments,
02:40:04 the rule of law, respect for authority. I heard an interesting statistic this last weekend,
02:40:11 and I read it actually. American First Policy Institute has a quote, a commentary about
02:40:18 the likelihood, and then just falling under the thought pattern of respective authority.
02:40:24 Even on the microcosm of family dynamics, fatherlessness in homes produces 20 times
02:40:34 more likely in incarceration. Somebody's going to do something that would lead to incarceration,
02:40:38 some crime. 70% of those that are addicted to drugs come from a fatherless home. And so we have
02:40:45 a cultural shift that has to happen in this country of from the lowest level of us teaching
02:40:52 within our family dynamics about respective authority, understanding and authority,
02:40:57 doing what authority should. Number one, to love those people within that family,
02:41:01 showing them responsibility. And then in return, the children then respond with the
02:41:06 respective authority. So we've got a cultural dynamic that has to change in America. And I've
02:41:12 been convinced of those that have the platform, support for law enforcement begins in the family
02:41:16 first. I think you all deal with that day after day. And for those who are having to deal with
02:41:24 the after effects of a culture that's missing the mark on this, thank you for what you do. Thank you
02:41:28 for your brother and sister in arms that have given paid the ultimate sacrifice. With that,
02:41:33 the members of this committee have some additional questions for the witnesses. We would ask the
02:41:37 witnesses to respond to these in writing pursuant to Committee Rule 7d, the hearing record we open
02:41:43 for 10 days. And without objection, this committee stands adjourned.

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