Join us for an insightful podcast discussion with Sudesh Verma, author of the groundbreaking book "Narendra Modi: The GameChanger," as he delves into India's transformation under Modi's leadership. From the 'fragile five' to the 'fabulous few,' witness India's ascent to global power and Modi's relentless journey marked by unwavering determination. Together with Oneindia, explore Modi's legacy, government initiatives, and the impact on India's trajectory in this candid evaluation of his governance.
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NewsTranscript
00:00When I analysed Narendra Modi, I realised the Chief Minister of Gujarat, he had done a wonderful job.
00:05I remember in the newsroom when you ask someone,
00:08Modi ji addressing in Ferguson College, you know, about development and all that,
00:11then the person who comes, my colleague reporter, starts talking about Ghoda Rats.
00:15So you had an inbuilt agenda to defame a person.
00:18Here we have a Prime Minister who is almost on a daily basis interacting with his people.
00:25And he did not need media as a tool to communicate his ideas.
00:30You see, what questions media people will ask, questions impacting the common man,
00:35those things are already being addressed on a daily basis.
00:39Why Amnesty leaves the country, why BBC has a problem, why Greenpeace leaves the country,
00:43the government did not do anything special against them. Just ask them to give account.
00:48Hello and welcome. We are living in interesting times.
00:51So, these are the election times in India and the world's biggest democracy is voting for its new government.
00:59Prime Minister Narendra Modi who is touted to be coming in with large numbers for the third term
01:07is something that the Indian polity is not saying in as many words but the feel, the feeler is exactly the same.
01:15Now what happens if around this time of the year when the 97 crore voters are going,
01:24making their way to the voting machines, a book named Transforming India, Game Changer in Action
01:32comes and it refers to none other than Prime Minister Modi himself.
01:38Today we are joined by Sudesh Varma who is the author of this book and Sudesh Varma needs no introduction.
01:44Thank you so much sir for speaking to One India and for coming to our studios.
01:48Sir, this is your second book on Prime Minister Modi. The first one was Narendra Modi, the Game Changer.
01:555 to 7 years have passed and Prime Minister Modi is completing his second term.
02:00A book at this time, how do you see it as far as the normal temperament of the voter is concerned,
02:09the wave that at times we see and hear about Prime Minister Modi. So, where does this book fit in?
02:16Pangaj, the motivation is the same, what was there for my first book. You remember we were part of the newsroom.
02:23You were also there. So, I always used to think that the country must know facts about Mr. Narendra Modi.
02:30Because after the political energy unleashed by Anna movement against corruption, there were very few people who could actually catch on this national theme.
02:42And build the party and the image that yes, they are going to fight corruption. And when I analysed Narendra Modi,
02:49I realised that Chief Minister of Gujarat, he had done a wonderful job by using IT, by introducing technology.
02:55Because merely saying against corruption would not take you anywhere unless you bring institutional changes.
03:01So, I had studied that and I realised that there is only one person who can actually fit into the group of becoming the Prime Minister and that person was Narendra Modi.
03:11So, I thought the people of this country must know and I as a journalist because we, what is our plus point that we communicate.
03:19We know how to communicate. So, I thought that must be the time that we should not miss this. People should know that what Narendra Modi is.
03:29So, that they can make an informed choice. There are lot of rumours about him, you know. I remember in the newsroom when you ask someone,
03:36Modi ji addressing in Ferguson College, you know, about development and all that. Then the person who comes, my colleague reporter, starts talking about Gujarat.
03:44So, you had an inbuilt agenda to defend a person. So, I thought, I thought a survey, a research must be made and that is what produced the book.
03:53And this issue also, we should not talk about. Ten years have passed. So, nine years of governance I have. Facts and figures with me.
04:00We can analyse and then people must know that what happened. Of course, Modi ji is there. He has communicated in this country.
04:07He is telling people what has happened. But I also as a party man, as a former journalist, it is my duty also to bring those things to the record.
04:15So that intellectually oriented people, those who are trying to be critical can look into the facts and then maybe change their opinion.
04:22It's very important also, you know, to look at from this prism also. And Sudesh Varma himself, you must have seen him on lots and lots of TV debates.
04:29Former BJP spokesperson and now a member of the media committee there in the BJP. A former journalist also.
04:37Sudesh ji, how did it happen, you know, leaving a lucrative career, if I may say so, comparatively.
04:43Coming into politics, joining mainstream political party, what was the change that was required at that time?
04:50And secondly, the contributions that you have made. How do you think it makes a difference in politics today?
04:56You see, there was a clear choice I would have continued with a great salary which at that time in my status as a journalist was giving me.
05:03And after writing the book, of course, there was likelihood of that many channels would like to have me there.
05:08Because I had a better understanding about the person who was going to be the prime minister and the person who became the prime minister.
05:14So, but I decided that this is the time now because I had aligned completely with my subject. And I had no reasons to believe that he was going to do wrong thing.
05:23So, it was time that I must become a part of his system and try to support him, try to articulate the views which he is trying to communicate.
05:33And this is how I landed up in the BJP and I was lucky that BJP made me a part of the media relations department, made me a spokesperson.
05:40I used to go and, you know, talk on television about the policies. So, I was very happy that I could contribute in making people aware.
05:48And because of my journalistic background, naturally, you understand that I don't have to say about myself that we communicate in a much better way.
05:55And understanding the pulse of the people. Staying with media, Sudeshi, now, one of the chapters in your book, it says, why do they oppose him?
06:03And you have given a quotation also from Albert Einstein. But media and Prime Minister Modi, many would say don't go hand in hand.
06:11He doesn't do press conferences. So, how do you look at that then? –You see, we had a Prime Minister who never used to open his mouth.
06:21It was very difficult. For him, press conferences mattered. Because he had to communicate something, he would use press conferences.
06:28Here we have a Prime Minister who is almost on daily basis interacting with his people. And he did not need media as a tool to communicate his ideas.
06:40Because social media has given him a huge platform where he can interact directly. And the kind of smartphone users we have in this country.
06:48The kind of, you know, depth, the kind of penetration of social media and internet and telephones.
06:55It has given, you know, it has given people access to what Modi has to say. So, he doesn't need the media actually.
07:02So, media is free to criticize the government, do research, do some investigation and bring out the bad things which the government is doing.
07:09But sadly media has not been able to do that. What I have seen mostly on this column, in the columns of the newspapers,
07:16that they would be critical. Critical of something but it lacks the facts and lacks investigation. So, Modi said, I am doing my job.
07:23You do your job. Your job is to criticize me, to pinpoint that, okay, where I am doing wrong, you please tell me, I will try to correct that.
07:29So, it's a brilliant thing. And not that he has not addressed. He has addressed whenever there is need. –And, well, if that be the two-way communication,
07:37then through Man Ki Baat, I am sure he takes the questions and the plight of the people also, if that is, you know, what can be supposed to be.
07:45Yeah, Man Ki Baat is biggest transformative instrument any leader in the world has evolved. I will tell you why.
07:52You see, this is not a propaganda tool he has evolved. Through Man Ki Baat, he interacts with people.
07:59He gets the feedback of what positive things have happened. And actually, he is singing, he is singing praise of the country,
08:05where people are trying to rebuild the nation by their own efforts. So, this is what Man Ki Baat is all about. He is an inspirational leader.
08:12Nobody has asked Prime Minister to inspire people. But he knows that, you know, people need to be inspired for the country to march ahead.
08:18And Man Ki Baat is the biggest transformational instrument. And it has been tested too by many leaders of the world.
08:24They are wondering that how Modi ji has evolved this instrument. No leader has been able to do that in an era of social media,
08:31where there are mainly leaders who are on the social media. – Right. Well, you see, I mean, Sudejji, you know, having said that,
08:38often, you know, in terms of communication, they say it's a two-way process. And Modi ji has been facing flak, you know, many a times for not addressing the media,
08:48the mainstream media. And then there are later on other allegations also, as far as, you know, the role of media is concerned.
08:55Nonetheless, one more aspect that this governance of Prime Minister Modi has worked closely on is the feeling of pride, the Bharat factor,
09:05the Indian pride that they hold. And doing away with a lot of British legacies is something that we have seen happening in the past.
09:13Do you believe that that is one key step of making him the mass leader that he is today? – I will come to this question.
09:20But first I must answer the earlier comment which you have made. – Okay. – You see, it's not important whether you are addressing the media
09:28and whether some media people are asking questions. You see, what questions media people will ask?
09:34Questions impacting the common man. So, those things are already being addressed on a daily basis. People are asking him.
09:42Lakhs and lakhs of questions come to him. And he keeps answering them in Man Ki Baat and other platforms also.
09:47He has been talking about his government's achievements. Say, for example, if a journalist actually wants to confront,
09:52then he has the whole paper with him, newspaper with him to investigate and say this has not happened.
09:57So, this will help the government to rebuild the strategy that why this has not happened.
10:01The correct thing may say, but media want, why should the Prime Minister, you see, earlier it used to be time when
10:06Prime Minister used to take, you know, entourage of journalists with them and all these PR things will happen.
10:11These things are not happening. Because if you are interested in covering the Prime Minister, you will go in any case.
10:15Because he is news. So, organization should, you know, it's a wonderful strategy that has worked well for Narendra Modi ji,
10:22even when he was the Chief Minister. He says that I should give my time to people. It's people's time.
10:26And if media wants to criticize, okay, if they are fair enough, they can do that.
10:30But if they do wrong criticism, then they would face the flag. So, this should not be an issue for a person who is speaking
10:35almost on a daily basis, interacting with people and answering all the questions which are being raised.
10:41No, absolutely. See, I mean, if actions are speaking louder than words, then so be it for Narendra Modi ji.
10:49Now, coming to the question of Bharat, you see, the way Modi ji has created the pride of being an Indian.
10:55Inside, for those who are staying in this country and for those who are staying outside, if you interact with NRIs, you would know what Modi name means to them.
11:06Country is now known by Modi. The moment you utter the name Modi, you will say, yes, India is developing.
11:13It's no longer a country of snakes and ladders. It's a country of IT, artificial intelligence. We are transforming the whole thinking of people.
11:21So, Bharat, which used to be, you know, an enigma for people, but it was actually, what do you call it, sone ki chidiyan.
11:31You know, it is transforming back into that with the kind of economic growth we are witnessing. No, no. So, very soon we are going to be the third largest economy.
11:40US, China and India. So, entire world, whether they want or not, they have to recognize the importance of India being the largest populated country in the world.
11:50Such a huge manpower, such a huge potential, you cannot ignore it. –So, why do people oppose him then?
11:56For this, you know, I have a chapter, why do they oppose him. I will just give you a gist, you see, when you take action against 20,000 NGOs,
12:07who were getting funds from abroad, but not accounting for why they were getting the fund and where they were spending.
12:12So, action taken against them, now they cannot take the fund. Why Amnesty leaves the country?
12:17Why BBC has a problem? Why Greenpeace leaves the country? The government did not do anything special against them.
12:23Just asked them to give account. BBC has agreed that yes, there was a fudging in the account.
12:28Amnesty has gone back because Amnesty was doing business here. Running a private company, you were an NGO, then what was Greenpeace doing?
12:38If you don't want to follow the law of the land because you feel that you are an international
12:42organization, supranational organization, nothing will happen to you, this is not the age.
12:47You have to be accountable. You are getting money from abroad, you must state why you are getting that money.
12:52And then you must be accountable for saying where you are spending it. Are you spending it to create chaos in this country?
12:58Or you are really spending it to benefit the people of this country for which actually it is meant.
13:03So, these advocacy NGOs, they are facing lot of problems. These 20,000 NGOs means,
13:07lakhs of people who get employed, some senior journalists, some opinion makers,
13:11they used to go abroad on their money, they used to create, now they cannot do that because they don't have the money.
13:17You see, more than 3 lakh people have been debarred from becoming director because they are running the
13:22cell companies which used to, you know, do this money laundering.
13:27So, you can't do that because the government is very, very strict in that and trying to investigate all the companies.
13:33You see, the ED is taking action against those people and even today, you see, lots of cash has been found.
13:39With a servant to the PS. Just imagine, this is the situation. So, if you take action against so many people,
13:46in trying to correct the system because many times the government changed and the system remained the same.
13:51So, here you are trying to create a different institution, try to create a different system, then you will face flag.
13:56You see, one example, Pankaj, before you ask me another question. You see, earlier, remember late Rajiv Gandhi, his prime minister said,
14:04that only 15 paisa of the 100 paisa, we said, reaches the beneficiary. So, where did 85 paisa go? To the middlemen.
14:13Now, 100 paisa goes. So, these middlemen who were pocketing the entire majority of money, so, naturally they would be unhappy.
14:20So, naturally, there are so many vested interests which Modi government has annoyed. But at the same time,
14:26Modi government has done wonders for many people who are not getting the benefits.
14:30So, they are solidly standing with Modi ji. So, despite this opposition, he is coming with a great majority.
14:37Coming with a great majority. Sudesh Varma there, author, former journalist and also the media relations team of the BJP there with us, talking to us.
14:46Sudesh ji, obviously, what you mentioned that, you know, there was a time when the NGOs were operating on their own, not following the law of the land.
14:57In comes Prime Minister Modi, things change. And now people say that yeh Bharat bhi badal chuka hai.
15:03And there are so many, you know, examples given, yeh desh ab sunta nahi hai, aankh dikhata hai, yeh ghar mein ghuske marenge.
15:10Is tarak ab, this kind of approach also has come in. Do you believe that somewhere down the line, the country which worships and
15:20operates upon the theories of Mahatma Gandhi, an eye for an eye would make the whole world blind.
15:27Where is the demarcation or the line that the Modi government is, whether very off or not, that responding to everything,
15:37or may be showing courage at a time, or may be showing teeth to someone like a country like US or UK.
15:44Do you believe that in the longer run this is going to help India? –It's a huge, huge gamut of, you know, areas you have opened for me.
15:52You see, Mahatma Gandhi, if you read his Hind Swaraj, you will know what Mahatma Gandhi was. The British banned Hind Swaraj.
15:59Because it went against the British opinion. Whatever Mahatma Gandhi did, did because of the context.
16:05He knew that the British empire was very, very strong. You cannot fight bullet to bullet. So, he took the weapon of non-violence.
16:11And he also wanted to appeal to the heart of the people, common Londoners, common Britishers, who he thought that would support.
16:18So, it worked in a different way. There were violent agitation also. So, all these contributed. You cannot take away the
16:24contribution of Subhash Chandra Bose and all those people who sacrificed like Bhagat Singh.
16:29So, it's a comprehensive thing. India was never docile. Indian democracy, you see, existed even before the west realized what democracy is all about.
16:38They were the ones which started the crusade. They were the ones, were violent societies. We were never violent societies.
16:45Our society evolved over a period of time and democracy was inherent in our blood. When we talk of Vasudeva Kutumbakam,
16:52the whole world is a family. We take the whole world as one. We are not talking in terms of Hindus or Muslims or Christians, Americans and all that.
16:59So, if you want to create a just world order, you have to talk with value system, with morality. It cannot be that if America does something, it's moral.
17:07And if India does something, it's not moral. What applies to America applies to India also because we belong to the same pedestal on the basis of equality.
17:15So, if equality exists, we have to talk like friends. Whether you are a small country or a big country, it doesn't matter.
17:20So, no different rules for two brothers of the same family. One big family and the rules should apply.
17:25You mentioned about, you know, the religious parity. I mean, as we speak, there is a lot of opposition, I would say,
17:36on what Prime Minister Modi mentioned as far as the Muslim community is concerned.
17:42For a party like BJP which has very openly supported the cause of Hindutva, came into power riding high on anti-corruption and vikas.
17:53And 2019 was almost, you know, whitewashed by the BJP again on the factors of development.
18:01Why suddenly there is a change in tone, if at all, and bringing the religious angle now into these elections?
18:08No, it's not religious angle. You see, when opposition comes out with a manifesto that talks about redistribution of wealth,
18:15I come from JNU, I can tell you that redistribution of wealth is a Marxist concept, a socialist concept.
18:20Where you take from the rich and give it to the poor. And when you are talking in terms of minorities in the Congress manifesto,
18:27naturally, as a party which is there in competitive politics, we talk about the politics of others to expose them.
18:34But that was not just one minority group. –No, that is what I am saying. And we believe
18:39sincerely that the biggest chunk of community, Muslims, they cannot be minority in this country.
18:47There are many communities which are much lesser in number. They deserve to be minority. And when we believe in equality,
18:55when I am talking of equality at the level of world, the same equality should exist there, isn't it? So, when the
19:00constitution says that you cannot have reservation on the basis of religion,
19:04how can you give religious basis reservation? Because this reservation was given because of
19:09Sidhu caste and Sidhu tribes who were thought to be behind the system
19:14because of atrocities committed by the upper caste or manipulated by the upper caste. So, it primarily concerned the Hindus.
19:21So, you want to take away that right and give it to the community. Say, for example,
19:26OBC's Muslims already enjoy reservation there in OBC.
19:30Paswan Das Muslims and Bacchus Muslims. But you want to give them on the basis of religion which is not
19:35constitutional and which is against the interest of the OBC community.
19:39So, naturally, we will speak about that, you know. This is politics. We cannot allow you to go scot-free like that. You have to
19:44come and tell people what you want. Because people must have a clear cut idea about what choices they are making.
19:50Right. I think, Sudeshi, you know, talking about reservation and elections will need another an hour or so.
19:58Especially dedicated to that. But coming back to this book, once again,
20:03forwarded by Arif Mohammad Khan, Honorable Governor of Kerala and M.J. Akbar, eminent intellectual journalist and former union minister
20:12to Major General K.K. Sinha, Professor Mamidala Jagdesh Kumar and the list goes on who have reviewed the book.
20:20Your favourite chapter through this or any excerpt that you would like to read out to our viewers and secondly, where do we find this book?
20:27Your book will be available. It's available in the market. That's not a big thing. And, you see, I would like people to understand why
20:37those who are opposing, those who are ganging up, say, people like Lalu Prasad Yadav, Rahul Gandhi, K.J. Jewel, Mamata,
20:45what is common thread that connects them? Why they are all anti-Modi? Modi has not done anything personal against them.
20:51It's corruption. Action against corruption is being taken up. So, fear that if this man comes again,
20:58we shall renew the mandate, they are going to be in trouble. And that is true. He has said,
21:03Modiji has said, kisi ko nahi chhodo. And he believes in that and he will do that. He will allow the agencies to work.
21:09I will just read from there. So, that maybe your readers would understand whether I have captured the spirit or not.
21:15You see, one can understand the reasons behind opposition parties opposing Narendra Modi. In competitive politics, they have to.
21:23Since their survival depends on mobilizing the section of the population that may have been rough-shouldered by the government policies.
21:29Even for the good of the nation, you need to remove the bottlenecks and annoy many
21:34people including the vested interests and people who seek to misuse the system for their personal benefits.
21:41There may be many people, such as the leftists, who oppose Modi because one caterpillars party cannot tolerate the other.
21:47Their ideology which is borrowed may also conflict with the ideology of the BJP which is rooted in cultural nationalism.
21:54Nationalism for many is anathema and often synonymous with majoritarianism. There are some people, like the Islamists,
22:02who think that the government represents the larger Hindu population and that continuing the same would endanger their special status in the future.
22:10I have tried to analyze all these factors in this chapter which will be very interesting.
22:14So, basically, Sudesh Varman there, right, meaning to say that what Prime Minister Modi is doing may upset a lot of people.
22:22But that at least is good for India and that's what the demand is. Well, getting more than 300 seats in the last 2019 elections,
22:29the BJP alone can definitely command at least that mandate of the people and I guess if a party commands that kind of number,
22:39then certainly the people, the voices of the people are with them. At least that's what the interpretation of democracy is.
22:45Thank you so much for watching Dhritarashtra. Thank you, Sudeshi, for speaking to us also.
22:49And this is the book, Transforming India, Game Changer in Action. This is Sudesh Varman's second book.
22:56The first one being Narendra Modi, The Game Changer. Go for it. It's available on Amazon from 14th of May onwards.
23:03You can pre-order it and also it's available on all the bookstalls near you.