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Interior Secretary Deb Haaland testifies before the Senate Appropriations Committee.

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Transcript
00:00:00 [BLANK_AUDIO]
00:00:10 [BLANK_AUDIO]
00:00:20 [BLANK_AUDIO]
00:00:30 Come to order.
00:00:48 This morning the committee will discuss the President's proposed
00:00:52 fiscal year 2025 budget for the Department of Interior.
00:00:56 I'd like to welcome Secretary Holland, Acting Deputy Secretary Daniel Davis,
00:00:59 and Interior Budget Director Denise Flanagan back to the committee.
00:01:03 I want to thank you all three for joining us today.
00:01:06 To set the scene, the administration is requesting $18 billion for
00:01:09 the Interior Department for fiscal year 2025.
00:01:11 That's a $935 million or 5% increase over fiscal year 2024.
00:01:17 In active appropriations, I think it's important to note for context that
00:01:21 Congress has also provided departmental most $50 billion in additional annual
00:01:25 appropriations in the last three years to the bipartisan infrastructure law and
00:01:29 the Inflation Reduction Act.
00:01:31 I look forward to discussing how the department is implementing those laws
00:01:34 using this historic funding in addition to hearing the justifications for
00:01:37 the increase for fiscal year 24 in active levels.
00:01:40 Now it's been a year to the day since you were last before the committee for
00:01:43 the fiscal year 2024 budget hearing.
00:01:46 There have been some highs from renewing the impacts of the Free Association,
00:01:51 which we finally accomplished as part of the Consolidated Appropriations Act
00:01:55 passed in March, to achieving record-level energy production.
00:01:59 I'm also supportive of efforts by Interior to work collaboratively with the
00:02:02 states to distribute billions of dollars of federal funds Congress provided for
00:02:06 the abandoned mine lands program and the orphan well program.
00:02:10 States like West Virginia have done the heavy lifting for decades to power our
00:02:13 nation to greatness and still bear the scars of these sacrifices.
00:02:17 That is why funding to remove orphan infrastructure and reclaim abandoned mine
00:02:21 lands in order to make these communities better and safer places to live is so
00:02:26 vital, and I look forward to continuing working with you to ensure there are no
00:02:30 obstacles to distributing these funds going forward.
00:02:33 I'm also pleased to see the budget allocates just over $1 billion for land
00:02:37 and water conservation fund, federal and state programs as provided by the Great
00:02:41 American Outdoor Act.
00:02:43 The LWCF has helped acquire and protect inholdings in our national parks,
00:02:47 forest, wildlife refuges, and other public lands to provide important hunting,
00:02:51 fishing, and outdoor recreation opportunities to the nation.
00:02:56 I also note your budget includes just over $1.6 billion in funding for deferred
00:03:00 maintenance projects in the National Park Service and other department bureaus,
00:03:04 reflecting the final year of funding from the Great American Outdoors Act.
00:03:08 With $9.5 billion in funding over the five years of the program, I look forward
00:03:12 to getting a better understanding of the progress made into reducing the agency's
00:03:16 deferred maintenance backlog and the department's plans for moving forward after
00:03:20 the funding expires at the end of this year.
00:03:23 But with that, there have unfortunately been too many lows as well, with the
00:03:27 Interior Department and broader administration picking favors when it comes to
00:03:31 energy, leading to many instances when the U.S. investment has been discouraged.
00:03:36 Getting this administration to celebrate the abundant resources our country has
00:03:39 been blessed with, whether that be oil, gas, coal, or minerals, that we can produce
00:03:44 cleaner and safer than anywhere else in the world and that we and our friends
00:03:47 around the world rely on, should be an easy lift.
00:03:51 But the radical climate advisors in the White House have put election year
00:03:54 politics ahead of a thoughtful and achievable long-term strategy for the country.
00:03:58 Thinking back to a year ago, Secretary Haaland, we were waiting for the overdue
00:04:01 offshore oil and gas five-year plan, which has since been finalized with only three
00:04:08 potential sales over five years.
00:04:11 And as far as we've been able to tell, the department isn't actually doing the
00:04:14 necessary work for that first sale to take place.
00:04:18 Meanwhile, this administration, just like they did with Venezuela, has avoided
00:04:22 enforcing sanctions on Iranian oil, apparently to try to keep the prices down.
00:04:27 It's just ridiculous to allow Iran to evade sanctions and use its oil profits to
00:04:33 fund its terrorist proxies like Hamas when we're restricting our own production here.
00:04:39 This paltry lease schedule is not just bad for oil and gas production, it's bad for
00:04:43 wind as well.
00:04:45 You've recently announced a new five-year offshore wind leasing schedule with up to
00:04:48 12 potential lease sales through 2028.
00:04:51 But let me remind you all that the Inflation Reduction Act only allows -- and I
00:04:57 repeat, only allows -- Interior to issue offshore wind leases if it has held a
00:05:02 substantial oil and gas lease sale in the prior year.
00:05:06 Even if the three oil and gas lease sales in this new oil and gas plan went forward,
00:05:11 it would mean years of gaps between no wind leases can be issued.
00:05:15 It doesn't make any sense at all.
00:05:17 Despite the IRA requirements to hold offshore lease sales, the Department has tried
00:05:21 to undermine the law at every turn.
00:05:23 First, the Department reduced interest in a lease sale at the Cook Inlet in Alaska
00:05:27 by increasing royalties and rents.
00:05:29 Then the Administration entered into a sue and sale agreement with environmental
00:05:33 groups that at the last possible minute removed acreage and added highly
00:05:37 restrictive requirements to lease sale 261 in the Gulf of Mexico.
00:05:42 Not only do these decisions make us less energy secure, which of course was noted
00:05:46 in the Internal Department memos on the Alaska lease sale, they also don't help
00:05:52 reduce emissions or overall demand for these types of energy.
00:05:57 According to the Energy Information Administration's projections, which I know
00:06:00 are used by the Interior Department for its modeling, the United States will remain
00:06:05 a net exporter of petroleum products through 2050, and global demand for oil and
00:06:09 gas will continue to grow.
00:06:11 And when it comes to production from federal waters, the Department's own
00:06:15 environmental analysis show there will be less global emissions by holding more
00:06:20 offshore oil and gas lease sales here in the U.S.
00:06:23 We have some of the strictest standards in the world, so energy produced in America
00:06:27 displaces dirtier production elsewhere in the world.
00:06:31 Unfortunately, the story around efforts to onshore our critical mineral supply chain
00:06:35 is no better.
00:06:36 For example, in the past few weeks, the Interior Department also announced the
00:06:40 final environmental impact statement effectively canceling the Ambler Road in
00:06:44 Alaska, a road necessary for producing critical minerals in the United States.
00:06:49 Also, Congress directed the Interior Department and the bipartisan infrastructure
00:06:53 law to provide Congress with a report on improving and expediting the permitting
00:06:58 around our domestic critical mineral supply chain.
00:07:01 But the report we received, which was many, many months late, clearly failed to
00:07:05 meet the requirements set by Congress and barely contained any concrete
00:07:10 recommendations to actually accelerate mine permitting.
00:07:14 You don't need to take my word for it.
00:07:16 Interior's own inspector general recently found the Department failed to meet
00:07:20 Congress' direction and instructed Interior to provide the additional legally
00:07:25 required information.
00:07:27 So I look forward to hearing DOI's progress correcting that report and how Interior
00:07:31 is deploying its existing resources and current tools to help tackle the
00:07:36 significant permitting issues that we're facing.
00:07:38 Unfortunately, the only explanation that makes sense to me is that the
00:07:42 administration would prefer to continue to rely on Chinese-controlled critical
00:07:46 mineral supply chains than allow for the domestic production of these critical
00:07:50 minerals needed for the electric vehicles, for the batteries, for satellites, and
00:07:55 the list goes on and on.
00:07:56 At the end of the day, global demand for oil, gas, and minerals will continue to
00:07:59 grow, and we probably won't like who fills the void in our absence.
00:08:04 But that's why -- that's really what we're in for by continuing to give.
00:08:09 Into the NIMBY isn't for the far left.
00:08:11 It's not in my backyard, as we've all heard for years and years.
00:08:14 Secretary Haaland, when it comes to traditional energy and mineral programs that
00:08:17 are so critical to our energy national security, I must say that for the last few
00:08:22 years it has felt like we are repeating the same conversation over and over again.
00:08:28 I'm tired, and I know you are too, and I know other members of this committee are
00:08:32 tired of asking again and again, when will we all see progress on action required
00:08:36 by the law and being told soon or that we are working on it?
00:08:41 Even worse, I'm tired of hearing, I'll get back to you, and that when we just
00:08:44 received a few short weeks ago your responses to the questions for the record from
00:08:49 last year's budget hearing.
00:08:51 We need and deserve better and more timely answers than that, especially given the
00:08:55 importance of so much of what the Department of Interior does and what we expect.
00:08:59 So I'm hoping that we can have a productive discussion today and actually get some
00:09:03 detailed answers.
00:09:04 Now I'm going to recognize my friend, Senator Brasso, for his opening remarks.
00:09:07 Well, thanks so much, Mr. Chairman.
00:09:09 I agree with so much of what you just said there in your remarks about the secretary
00:09:12 and her appearance today and the unresponsiveness and illegality of the actions of
00:09:17 this department, and really abusing the way that the department ought to be following
00:09:23 the law because they're not.
00:09:24 So thanks so much for your strong statement, Mr. Chairman.
00:09:26 I thank you for holding today's hearings and to have the secretary here because the
00:09:30 Department of Interior has a profound impact on the people of my home state of
00:09:35 Wyoming.
00:09:36 That's because almost half of the land in Wyoming is owned by the federal
00:09:39 government.
00:09:40 Nearly 70 percent of the minerals under that land is owned by the federal
00:09:44 government.
00:09:45 And the secretary's decisions affect people's livelihoods, affect people's family
00:09:50 budgets, and even the quality of public education in our state.
00:09:54 And that's why I find Secretary Holland's record so troubling.
00:09:58 Yesterday, just yesterday, during a congressional hearing in the House of
00:10:03 Representatives, Wyoming Representative Harriet Hageman asked the secretary if
00:10:07 she had, quote, "heard of the Rock Springs Resource Management Plan."
00:10:13 The secretary testified, "No."
00:10:15 Well, the people of Wyoming know what it is.
00:10:18 It is this department's disastrous proposal to block access to 3.7 million acres
00:10:25 of public lands in southwest Wyoming.
00:10:28 It would severely restrict energy and mineral development, restrict grazing, and
00:10:32 restrict recreation activities on those lands.
00:10:36 It would affect nearly a quarter of the state's population.
00:10:40 These lands are the economic lifeblood of local communities.
00:10:44 They supply jobs.
00:10:45 They provide tax dollars.
00:10:46 They keep hospitals open.
00:10:48 They fund our public schools.
00:10:50 Thousands of people in Wyoming have written to the department opposing this
00:10:55 fiasco.
00:10:56 The secretary testified yesterday, she never heard of it.
00:11:00 The governor, the state legislator, county commissioners, local communities, all
00:11:05 strongly oppose this plan coming out of this Department of Interior.
00:11:10 And it's deeply troubling that Secretary Holland, as of yesterday, was not even
00:11:15 aware of one of her department's major actions affecting my state.
00:11:21 What's even more disturbing is how many of Secretary Holland's decisions are
00:11:24 lawless.
00:11:26 Take, for example, her refusal to follow the Mineral Leasing Act.
00:11:29 The act requires the secretary to hold quarterly lease sales in each state with
00:11:34 oil and gas resources.
00:11:37 That's one lease sale in each state with oil and gas every three months.
00:11:43 Yet during the first three quarters of Secretary Holland -- I'm sorry, the first
00:11:48 ten quarters of Secretary Holland's tenure, she held only two lease sales.
00:11:53 Since then, the department has had three more.
00:11:56 But the secretary has made no effort whatsoever to reinstate the eight missing
00:12:00 lease sales.
00:12:02 And we're now starting to see the damage in store for us.
00:12:05 So from fiscal years 2001 through 2021, the department leased an average of over
00:12:11 2.3 million acres each year.
00:12:14 2022, 2023, under Secretary Holland, the department leased an average of 83,000
00:12:20 acres per year.
00:12:21 From 2.3 million to 83,000, that's a 96 percent drop in the amount of acreage
00:12:28 leased.
00:12:30 Likewise, fiscal years 2001 to 2021, the department issued an average of 2,000
00:12:36 leases a year.
00:12:37 The last two years of the department, 132.
00:12:40 Again, a 93 percent drop in the number of leases issued.
00:12:45 Let's just compare President Biden to President Obama.
00:12:49 There has been a 93 percent drop in the amount of acreage leased, 90 percent
00:12:54 drop in the number of lease issues between Obama and Biden, Obama and Biden.
00:13:02 This is a horrible record, Mr. Chairman, undermining the economy of the United
00:13:07 States.
00:13:08 What's it all mean?
00:13:10 Well, first it means that today's oil and gas production has nothing to do with
00:13:14 President Biden.
00:13:15 It means that oil and gas production on federal lands that's happening today has
00:13:21 nothing to do with Biden.
00:13:23 It is headed for a fall.
00:13:24 It means that if Secretary Holland's decisions are allowed to stand, the people
00:13:28 of the West are going to suffer in the years to come.
00:13:31 The Secretary's lawless actions are not just limited to her failure to follow the
00:13:36 Mineral Leasing Act.
00:13:37 She has also followed -- failed to follow a host of other laws.
00:13:41 Last month was a good example.
00:13:43 Within the span of two days, Secretary Holland issued three decisions that have
00:13:48 made a mockery of Congress and the law.
00:13:51 First, the Secretary issued the so-called Public Land Lands Rule.
00:13:56 This rule turns the multiple-use mandate, which has been a decades-old bedrock
00:14:01 principle of federal land management, turned it on its head.
00:14:05 It equates the non-use of land with productive use of the land.
00:14:11 It's going to allow activists to stop grazing, to stop energy and mineral
00:14:15 production, to stop timber harvesting, and to stop recreation on the very lands
00:14:22 where Congress directed these activities to take place.
00:14:27 One day later, the Secretary prohibited oil and natural gas production in the
00:14:32 National Petroleum Reserve in Alaska.
00:14:35 This is an area that Congress has established with the express purpose of
00:14:40 producing oil.
00:14:42 That's why it's called the National Petroleum Reserve in Alaska.
00:14:46 Right there in the name.
00:14:48 This area is central to our nation's long-term energy security, and the
00:14:52 Secretary is locking up half of it.
00:14:56 Then the Secretary announced plans to block access to the Ambler Mining District.
00:15:01 This is a large mineral deposit on the state and native lands in Alaska.
00:15:05 It is a rich source of copper, as you talked about, Mr. Chairman, cobalt, zinc,
00:15:10 other minerals.
00:15:12 Federal law guarantees access to these lands, yet this Secretary is doing what
00:15:16 she wants in spite of the law.
00:15:19 She's doing what she wants in spite of the fact that President Biden is driving
00:15:23 up demand for these very same minerals.
00:15:27 Mr. Chairman, the American people deserve much better than we're getting from
00:15:30 this Secretary and from this administration.
00:15:33 They deserve leaders who will uphold and honor the laws enacted by Congress, not
00:15:37 take every opportunity to subvert them.
00:15:41 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:15:42 Thank you, Senator.
00:15:43 Madam Secretary, you're with your statement.
00:15:47 Chair Manchin, Ranking Member Barrasso, and members of the committee, thank you
00:15:51 for the opportunity to testify in support of Interior's fiscal year 2025 budget
00:15:56 request.
00:15:57 I appreciate all of the support this committee and your staff have consistently
00:16:01 shown the Department of the Interior.
00:16:03 I have especially enjoyed visiting so many of your home states.
00:16:07 Every trip informs my understanding of the issues important to the American
00:16:12 people, the impact of the work that we do, and how our budget can support those
00:16:17 interests.
00:16:18 Our 2025 budget totals $18 billion in current authority.
00:16:22 First, I want to highlight several important proposals.
00:16:25 Permanent pay legislation and reforms for our wildland fire workforce, mandatory
00:16:30 funding for future Indian water rights settlements, and reclassifying contract
00:16:35 support costs and leasing payments to tribes from discretionary to mandatory
00:16:40 funding starting in 2026.
00:16:42 This administration has made a steadfast commitment to strengthen government-to-
00:16:46 government relationships with tribal nations.
00:16:49 We are doing so thanks to significant investments from Congress, which are
00:16:53 helping address the deficiencies that decades of underfunding have created.
00:16:58 I'm grateful to the members of this committee for working on a bipartisan basis
00:17:02 to champion tribal priorities.
00:17:05 With a total request of $4.6 billion for Indian affairs programs, this budget
00:17:10 will address complex and difficult challenges, such as the missing and murdered
00:17:14 indigenous peoples crisis, the legacy and continuing impacts of federal Indian
00:17:19 boarding school policies, and native language revitalization.
00:17:23 Public safety continues to be a top priority for tribal leaders across the
00:17:27 country.
00:17:28 The budget includes $651 million to support critical public safety needs across
00:17:33 all of Indian country.
00:17:35 We also request $1.5 billion for Indian education programs, with strong
00:17:40 investments in the day-to-day operations of schools.
00:17:43 This funding is critical as we prepare the next generation of indigenous
00:17:48 Americans to lead their communities.
00:17:51 Turning to wildland fire, we continue to see the devastating impacts they are
00:17:55 having across the country.
00:17:57 I want to thank Congress for extending supplemental fire pay for another year.
00:18:01 The 2025 budget invests in reforms, including $75 million to support permanent
00:18:07 pay increases for federal and tribal wildland firefighters.
00:18:11 Stewardship of our natural resources is a core mission for us.
00:18:15 Interior manages about 20 percent of America's lands and is responsible for
00:18:20 protection and recovery of more than 2,300 endangered and threatened species.
00:18:25 Our request includes $2.8 billion in annual funding for conservation efforts
00:18:30 that support key initiatives, such as wildlife corridors and implementing the
00:18:35 nation's seed strategy.
00:18:37 I'm proud of the proposal of $8 million for a mandatory funded tribal land
00:18:41 acquisition program, a top priority of tribes, as part of our implementation of
00:18:47 the Land and Water Conservation Fund program.
00:18:50 This proposal honors the role that tribes play as stewards of the land and will
00:18:54 help ensure they have resources to ensure healthy lands for future generations.
00:18:59 The 2025 budget invests $189 million to continue the progress we have made in
00:19:05 deploying clean energy, building a resilient domestic-based supply chain, and
00:19:10 creating thousands of good-paying jobs.
00:19:13 The demand for renewable energy has never been greater, and Interior is leading
00:19:17 the way to a clean energy future.
00:19:20 Regarding infrastructure, our request includes $2.7 billion to fund operations
00:19:25 and maintenance for our more than 130,000 buildings and structures and 65,000
00:19:31 miles of public roads.
00:19:33 In addition, there is $1.6 billion in mandatory funding available in 2025
00:19:38 through the Great American Outdoors Act Legacy Restoration Fund.
00:19:46 We are currently executing 326 GOA-funded projects, with 83 additional projects
00:19:52 requested for 2025.
00:19:55 We cannot address our major maintenance needs through an annual appropriations
00:19:59 alone.
00:20:00 I look forward to working with Congress to reauthorize the GOA Legacy
00:20:03 Restoration Fund.
00:20:05 Overall, the President's budget request for Interior invests in programs to
00:20:10 strengthen our nation for all Americans.
00:20:13 This great work would not be possible without the dedication of career public
00:20:17 servants at Interior.
00:20:19 I look forward to our continued work together on these important issues.
00:20:23 Thank you for your partnership and support for the important work of the
00:20:27 Department and its incredible employees.
00:20:30 And we are pleased, Denise, myself, and Acting Deputy Secretary Laura Daniel
00:20:36 Davis are pleased to answer any questions that you have about the budget.
00:20:40 Thank you, Secretary Allen.
00:20:41 Now we'll start our questioning.
00:20:42 I'm going to start with Secretary Wyden since he has a very important meeting
00:20:47 to go to.
00:20:48 Thanks very much, Madam Chair.
00:20:50 And good to see you, Madam Secretary.
00:20:52 I've enjoyed working with you since we were working across the House and the
00:20:57 Senate.
00:20:58 There are a couple of issues that are particularly important in the West,
00:21:01 and I think you all are aware that we were going to get into these briefly
00:21:06 this morning.
00:21:07 As you know, for a lot of folks in the West, D.C.
00:21:10 might as well be Mars for kind of all the connection.
00:21:13 And so what we're trying to do is shorten the distance,
00:21:17 and your folks have been very constructive with us on two very important
00:21:21 natural wonders that our rural communities care a great deal about.
00:21:25 One of them is Crater Lake, and one of them is Owyhee.
00:21:28 With respect to Crater Lake in December,
00:21:30 I learned of very alarming issues with the private concessionaire at Crater
00:21:35 Lake National Park.
00:21:36 It was clear that NPS staff were working tirelessly to prevent the contractor
00:21:41 issues from damaging irreplaceable park resources.
00:21:45 And I wrote to the National Park Service outlining in a very lengthy letter
00:21:50 about all these issues and asking for a swift effort on the part of the
00:21:55 department to address the problem.
00:21:57 And so I want to start by thanking you for the department's immediate action
00:22:01 that set an example, really a land speed record,
00:22:04 almost for responding to a really important issue in the West.
00:22:08 And it ultimately resulted in the transfer of the contract to a new
00:22:12 concessionaire.
00:22:13 And as I say, you know, getting this done in a matter of months,
00:22:16 essentially at the end of the year, is something much appreciated.
00:22:20 Now I understand you have safeguards in place to prevent the issue from
00:22:24 recurring.
00:22:25 And my first question, I have only two,
00:22:27 are you confident that visitors to Crater Lake National Park and the park
00:22:31 itself are now being better served by the concessionaire?
00:22:35 Senator, thank you so much for the very kind comment.
00:22:41 The NPS, as you know,
00:22:43 works closely with concessionaires in our parks to ensure that they are
00:22:46 providing the appropriate services for the visiting public.
00:22:49 We know that visitation has exploded over the last several years and we are
00:22:54 working hard to meet those demands.
00:22:57 I understand that in very rare circumstances our concessionaires do not meet
00:23:00 the terms of their obligations and that the NPS must take immediate action to
00:23:06 remedy that.
00:23:07 So I appreciate the opportunity to help you get the solution to this issue.
00:23:16 And I thank you for it.
00:23:17 And your last comment is particularly relevant because working with the
00:23:21 department, which your folks have indicated we can continue to do,
00:23:25 allows you to have a preventive kind of effort,
00:23:28 which ensures we don't get in this situation again.
00:23:31 My other question involves the O'Wahi in Malheur County.
00:23:36 Much of this rural landscape is managed by BLM and supports the local economy.
00:23:42 Ranching is a way of life there, as is hunting and fishing and outdoor
00:23:46 recreation.
00:23:47 And management of these lands has been a long-running source of frustration,
00:23:52 as you know.
00:23:54 I have been working very closely now with the local ranchers at their request.
00:23:59 They had been watching the years of gridlock.
00:24:02 And a few years ago they all came in and basically said,
00:24:05 "Would you take this on?"
00:24:06 And I smiled at them and I said,
00:24:07 "I think you're asking because you believe I'm the only one crazy enough to
00:24:11 be willing to jump into the middle of this battle."
00:24:14 And I said, "We've just got to get it done."
00:24:16 And the ranchers deserve an enormous amount of credit for working with the
00:24:20 tribes and the stakeholders.
00:24:22 And Senator Merkley and I have teamed up on legislation called the Malheur
00:24:26 County Empowerment for the O'Wahi Act that really makes it clear that we can
00:24:31 champion these local concerns and do it in a way that fits with sensible
00:24:37 environmental policy.
00:24:38 It provides interior with new management direction,
00:24:40 tools to meet tribal needs, and it improves livestock -- improves
00:24:46 flexibility for livestock grazing, which is absolutely important for land
00:24:51 health.
00:24:52 And as we all know as Westerners, nothing brings these discussions to a
00:24:56 close faster than having everybody go into battle over grazing.
00:25:02 And we have brought people together on this issue and the consultation with
00:25:07 all of you has been very, very helpful.
00:25:09 So my question is, Madam Secretary,
00:25:12 do you foresee any problem with Interior's ability to implement the
00:25:16 legislation if passed, especially with BLM having recently finalized its
00:25:21 Southeast Oregon Resource Management Plan for the area?
00:25:25 We believe we've got the ducks in a row and are in good shape,
00:25:28 but we'd be very glad to have your comments with respect to this on the
00:25:33 record as well.
00:25:34 Thank you, Senator.
00:25:35 And, of course, we appreciate the work that you've done on this legislation
00:25:38 and support as it aligns with the administration's conservation goals.
00:25:42 Thank you so much for all of that.
00:25:44 We actually don't foresee any issues,
00:25:47 and I can assure you that BLM will follow the law as enacted and consistent
00:25:51 with other applicable authorities.
00:25:53 My time is up.
00:25:55 I just want to thank you for this effort.
00:25:58 Back east, people call the Oahe Oregon's version of the Grand Canyon.
00:26:03 We call it home.
00:26:05 And these local ranchers and tribes and stakeholders really are pretty amazed
00:26:10 that we have gotten to this point,
00:26:12 and I think it's because there's been a lot of goodwill between the
00:26:15 department and Sarah Bittleman and our team that's been working on it.
00:26:18 We look forward to continuing that, and we thank you.
00:26:21 Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the courtesy.
00:26:23 Thank you.
00:26:24 Thank you, Senator.
00:26:25 And now to Senator Brasso.
00:26:26 Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
00:26:27 Secretary Haaland, 2023, the United States produced a record amount of crude
00:26:31 oil and natural gas.
00:26:32 Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
00:26:36 Senator, I believe that President Biden is --
00:26:40 Good thing or bad thing, that we produced a record amount of crude oil
00:26:44 and natural gas?
00:26:46 I agree that we have a record amount of production on federal lands.
00:26:52 No, not on federal.
00:26:54 Is it a good thing or a bad thing?
00:26:55 Just a simple question.
00:26:56 Well, I think that energy independence for our country is a good thing.
00:26:59 Because two weeks ago,
00:27:00 Secretary of Energy Granholm told the committee good thing,
00:27:03 so you agree with her.
00:27:05 Senator, I think that energy production on our public lands is at an all-time
00:27:11 high.
00:27:12 We're grateful that we have been able to produce energy,
00:27:16 specifically also our work on clean energy.
00:27:19 It doesn't seem like you're helping so much because of what we've talked
00:27:22 about in my opening statement.
00:27:24 So the Rock Springs Resource Management Plan would,
00:27:27 among other things that you proposed,
00:27:29 prohibit oil and natural gas exploration on more than 2 million acres.
00:27:33 It would ban Toronto production on over 2 million acres.
00:27:36 It would severely restrict all surface uses of 1.6 million acres.
00:27:42 The governor, congressional delegation, state legislature,
00:27:45 county commissioners in Wyoming, local communities,
00:27:47 all strongly oppose this plan by your department.
00:27:51 I just want to know,
00:27:52 how can the department be a good partner to Wyoming if it ignores the
00:27:56 opposition from the people who are most affected by this plan?
00:28:01 Thank you for the question, Senator.
00:28:03 And I do also appreciate your opening statement and want you to know that
00:28:08 I apologize.
00:28:09 This project has also been referred to as Sweetwater,
00:28:12 and so that's what I have been calling it.
00:28:15 We appreciate that your governor put together a constructive task force.
00:28:20 We're taking those recommendations as well as all the public comments we get
00:28:24 very seriously, as we always do.
00:28:27 We expect that the task force,
00:28:29 as well as the many people who took the time to weigh in on the draft plan,
00:28:33 will see their comments reflected in a final plan that best balances,
00:28:37 as I have always promised, to manage our public lands with a balance,
00:28:41 the many important uses in the Rock Springs or Sweetwater area,
00:28:45 such as grazing, trona mining, recreation, and wildlife migration.
00:28:49 Because this proposed plan is a stake at the heart of the Wyoming economy.
00:28:54 The department needs to listen more to the people of Wyoming,
00:28:56 and I would appreciate all your efforts in that area.
00:28:59 I want to go to it also.
00:29:00 The Bureau of Land Management had another rule called the public lands rule.
00:29:04 That's going to turn decades of multiple-use mandate on its head.
00:29:08 You just said you're for a lot of these things, but that rule isn't.
00:29:12 It's going to allow third parties to lease public lands to block the productive
00:29:16 use of the land.
00:29:17 We're not talking about national parks.
00:29:20 We're not talking about wildlife refuges.
00:29:21 We're not talking about wilderness.
00:29:23 These are lands that Congress has specifically made available for grazing,
00:29:28 as you mentioned, for energy, for mineral production, for recreation.
00:29:32 I mean, the three big parts of the Wyoming economy, agriculture, energy,
00:29:36 tourism.
00:29:37 So I don't know how non-use of land qualifies as the productive use of land.
00:29:43 Could you explain that to me?
00:29:45 Thank you very much, Senator.
00:29:47 And since I have been in this committee during my confirmation hearings,
00:29:52 I have promised to manage our public lands in a balance,
00:29:56 and that's what this rule seeks to do.
00:29:58 It makes conservation on par with BLM's other uses in our multi-use mandate.
00:30:04 Recreation and grazing, consistent with BLM's multiple-use and sustained yield
00:30:09 mission.
00:30:10 It enables the BLM to manage public lands to maintain their health and
00:30:14 function for years to come because we believe we have an obligation to future
00:30:18 generations for those public lands.
00:30:20 Well, it does sound like when I read through this public lands rule,
00:30:25 you'd be happy if all the land went away, if people rented it all,
00:30:28 took it all, and then just put it all non-use.
00:30:30 So I think that what you're saying is not at all true in terms of what the
00:30:33 intent of the law is to allow multiple use for productive use of the land.
00:30:38 And one other area,
00:30:40 the Bureau of Land Management has yet to issue leases to the winning bidders
00:30:44 of its December 2020 onshore oil and gas leases.
00:30:48 These were paid for, $7 million, went to the Treasury.
00:30:51 Government took the money.
00:30:53 The law says the leases must be issued in 60 days.
00:30:56 When do you plan to issue these leases to the winning bidders who paid for the
00:31:01 leases back three years ago?
00:31:03 Thank you, Senator.
00:31:05 I want to assure you that BLM is following the law.
00:31:08 We're holding regular onshore lease sales.
00:31:11 That's not the question.
00:31:13 The question is leases have been sales.
00:31:16 Money has been paid, $7 million taken in.
00:31:20 You're supposed to put out the lease in 60 days.
00:31:23 They handed you the wrong paper to read the wrong answer.
00:31:26 You had three and a half years to issue the leases.
00:31:29 Will you commit to issue them in the next 30 days?
00:31:32 Thank you, Senator.
00:31:33 As soon as I get back to my office,
00:31:35 I will double check on this issue and make sure that we give you the status
00:31:40 when we get back to our office.
00:31:42 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:31:43 Thank you, Senator.
00:31:45 To follow up on that, is there a penalty for not -- is there any penalty in the
00:31:48 law or the rule that basically if you don't basically allow the leases to
00:31:53 happen in a timely fashion, any retribution to the department?
00:31:59 Not aware of that?
00:32:01 Maybe that's our problem.
00:32:03 Secretary Holland, as alluded in my statement,
00:32:08 your request of a budget increase of $935 million or a 5% increase over last
00:32:13 year, I also see your proposed budget expects Interior will collect nearly
00:32:17 $700 million less in bonuses, rents, and royalties because you all have
00:32:23 chosen to have less lease sales and discourage production on public lands
00:32:27 and waters.
00:32:28 It's kind of hard to justify to the taxpayers why we should be using tax
00:32:33 dollars to increase the budget for the Department of Interior $935 million
00:32:39 when you have the ability to collect this and be self-sustaining.
00:32:44 But you've reduced it by $700 million.
00:32:46 So I'd like to hear you all's concerns about that.
00:32:50 That's a $1.6 billion swing.
00:32:53 Thank you, Chairman.
00:32:55 The fiscal year 2024 estimate was recently updated and increased $3.3
00:33:00 billion from last year's projection.
00:33:03 Both the fiscal year 2025 and fiscal year 2024 estimates reflect an overall
00:33:10 upward revenue trend and differences between 2025 and 2024 reflect lower OMB
00:33:17 price assumptions for oil and gas and lower offshore bonus amounts for 2025.
00:33:23 So you agree that there's going to be less coming in, the $700 million you
00:33:26 agree with is less revenue coming in because of a reduction of -- you're
00:33:32 saying -- I think you're saying reduction of the prices and the royalties you
00:33:35 would get or just the leases that we have and the money we receive from the
00:33:38 leases?
00:33:39 Chairman, the estimates reflect a point in time and can change quickly based
00:33:43 on assumptions and events.
00:33:45 For instance, the price of oil affects the royalties companies pay and that
00:33:50 can actually fluctuate.
00:33:52 You'd all have to agree that having less sales, less lease sales is going to
00:33:56 affect that greatly.
00:33:58 I mean, we'd have to acknowledge that because that's just quite -- it's just
00:34:03 common sense.
00:34:04 The other question I have, in the Infrastructure Investment Jobs Act,
00:34:07 Congress gave you a statutory deadline to issue a final offshore carbon
00:34:10 capture and storage regulations by November '22.
00:34:13 Okay?
00:34:15 November '22.
00:34:16 We're two years down the road.
00:34:17 You missed that deadline and continue to delay each year.
00:34:20 All the science tells us we cannot meet our climate goals without carbon
00:34:24 capture sequestration.
00:34:25 And given the administration's focus on decarbonization, this initiative
00:34:29 should be a top priority, which we made it a top priority in about every
00:34:31 piece of legislation that we had done, yet a draft rule has not even been
00:34:35 published yet.
00:34:36 So when do you think you will publish a proposed rule for comment since we're
00:34:40 two years behind already?
00:34:43 Chairman, thank you for the question.
00:34:45 And as you can imagine, creating a new regulatory program for a new applied
00:34:49 technology is creating -- it's very technical and it's very complex.
00:34:55 We want to make sure we're doing a good job.
00:34:58 We're consulting with the industry, with other government agencies and
00:35:01 countries to ensure efficient and comprehensive process.
00:35:05 We don't have an actual estimated time for this to be completed, but I want
00:35:09 to assure you that we are working on it.
00:35:11 How much CO2 has a three-year delay that's been left unsequestered?
00:35:16 I mean, do you have any idea how much is out there that we're not
00:35:19 sequestering?
00:35:20 I couldn't answer that at the moment, but of course we would be happy to
00:35:25 give you a status update on where we are with this and know that our
00:35:29 scientists --
00:35:30 Let me make it very clear that the people that are producing records amount
00:35:36 today and makes us more energy secure than ever before.
00:35:40 You know, we produced 38 trillion cubic feet of gas, 4.7 billion cubic feet
00:35:46 -- billion barrels, 4.7 billion barrels of oil last year.
00:35:50 We produced 14 billion cubic feet of LNG.
00:35:54 We did more solar and more battery storage than ever before.
00:35:59 So it's an all-in energy process that we have.
00:36:02 I've just tried to make the -- just the rational evaluation that we are
00:36:09 all understanding there's a transition coming, and we have to be part of
00:36:13 that transition.
00:36:14 And gas and oil and all of this, but we have to do it cleaner and better,
00:36:17 and we can't.
00:36:18 But if the administration is fighting us on sequestration, then it's an
00:36:21 oxymoron saying we can't do that because you're still putting out CO2
00:36:25 because you won't give us -- we can't get class 6 well permits.
00:36:29 We have 128 pending.
00:36:31 Only two has been provided.
00:36:32 Yet we're willing to go ahead and start collecting fines on companies that
00:36:36 are still producing CO2 because they can't get a permit.
00:36:40 It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
00:36:42 We're fighting our own selves on energy security, and we're not going to be
00:36:46 able to switch for the public.
00:36:48 There's no way that we can switch before we have something that will do
00:36:52 exactly what dispatchable fossil is doing, 24/7 production of energy.
00:36:57 That's just common sense, too.
00:36:59 For the superpower of the world, for the rest of the world, security that we
00:37:03 have in our allies are depending on it.
00:37:05 And every time we displace Venezuela, I think we've gone back and forth on
00:37:10 Venezuelan oil, and now with turning -- still turning a blind eye to the
00:37:15 ghost ships coming out of Iran that uses their profits to support Hamas and
00:37:21 his terrorist operations around the world.
00:37:24 It just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever why we would be doing that
00:37:27 when we produce it in the Gulf cleaner than anyone.
00:37:31 So if we displace by producing more, it's good for the environment.
00:37:35 But we're having a hard time.
00:37:37 And finally, I have -- last month, the BLM published a final rule that
00:37:42 authorized BLM to grant restoration and mitigation leases to third parties,
00:37:47 restricts development of potentially environmentally sensitive areas on
00:37:50 public lands, allows BLM to waive fair market value if the leases would
00:37:54 further other policy priorities identified by BLM, grazing, mining, and
00:37:59 non-renewable and renewable energy stakeholders all oppose the proposed rule.
00:38:04 How much public land do you expect to restrict from development under this
00:38:07 new rule?
00:38:09 Senator, I couldn't tell you the specific amount of acreage, but I can tell
00:38:14 you that fair market value will apply to the restoration and mitigation
00:38:18 leases that is -- that we're moving forward.
00:38:22 We would like to have an answer on two things.
00:38:24 Okay, how much do you think that's going to restrict, and how much public
00:38:27 land do you expect you will lease without charging fair market value, which
00:38:33 has been historical with BLM?
00:38:36 We'll take those questions back, Senator -- or Chairman, and consult with you.
00:38:42 Okay.
00:38:43 With that, Senator Hoeven, we're so glad that you're here, sir.
00:38:48 Mr. Chairman, I just want to start by thanking you for your comments and
00:38:52 your common sense, because it's right on.
00:38:55 Right on.
00:38:56 And so I really appreciate those comments.
00:38:58 And, you know, it's not only a national imperative in terms of energy
00:39:06 production for our economy and for good jobs and all those things.
00:39:10 It really is -- it's a national security issue.
00:39:12 It's really a strategic global issue now.
00:39:15 And along those lines, I want to ask you, Secretary, there's a resource
00:39:20 management plan you're putting in place on North Dakota BLM lands.
00:39:24 Now, in North Dakota, you've got what's called split estate.
00:39:27 It's a checkerboard.
00:39:29 Ms. Daniel-Davis, you're familiar with this, and I appreciate that.
00:39:32 And I appreciate where you've worked with us on this, so I want to thank you
00:39:35 for that.
00:39:36 But these rules that you're putting out, Secretary, are very problematic,
00:39:40 because in many cases, the BLM, the federal government, will own the
00:39:45 surface acres, but they don't own the mineral acres.
00:39:48 So under your resource management plan, because of that, 95% of the
00:39:55 federal coal lease acres are taken out of production because of this
00:39:59 checkerboard, okay?
00:40:02 And those are private individuals, or maybe the state that owns the
00:40:06 minerals, in most cases private individuals, and because you own the
00:40:09 surface acres and you won't allow leases, you're disenfranchising those
00:40:13 individuals.
00:40:15 Imagine if you own those minerals and you could lease them and be paid
00:40:21 for them, but now the federal government won't let you because you own
00:40:25 the surface acres, you're blocking them.
00:40:28 That's 95% of the acres on those lands that have federal coal, access to
00:40:36 federal coal blocked, and now 45% oil and gas.
00:40:42 So your resource plan is disenfranchising all the people that own those
00:40:48 mineral acres where you own the surface acres.
00:40:51 Do you think that's fair?
00:40:53 Do you think that's reasonable for the federal government to do that to
00:40:55 private individuals?
00:40:58 Senator, with respect to the question, I appreciate that, and I wonder if
00:41:02 you wouldn't mind if I pass that question to --
00:41:05 Sure, sure.
00:41:07 Because the question I have is what are we going to do about it?
00:41:09 Yes, indeed.
00:41:11 The federal government is unfairly disenfranchising its own citizens, and
00:41:14 that is not fair, and we need to do something about it.
00:41:18 I'll just say thank you, Senator, very much for the question, and I've
00:41:21 appreciated the many conversations we've had on this and other issues, and
00:41:25 with regard to the resource management plan, I'm going to admit I'm not
00:41:29 completely steeped in the details, but I understand exactly what you're
00:41:32 saying.
00:41:34 BLM's responsibility --
00:41:36 Will you work with us on this to address it?
00:41:38 This is fundamental fairness.
00:41:40 And so I would really appreciate it, and if you would take a lead and work
00:41:43 with us on it, I would greatly appreciate it.
00:41:45 Thank you for raising it.
00:41:46 I'd be happy to.
00:41:48 Okay, and then just to add to that, the Dakota gasification project is the
00:41:51 largest carbon capture project in the world now.
00:41:55 Fifty percent of their CO2 goes for EOR in the wave and oil fields, and
00:42:00 35 percent now is just coming online.
00:42:02 It's going to go for geologic storage, okay?
00:42:04 So this is a great example.
00:42:06 They are out there in the area that I'm talking about.
00:42:09 If you cut off their coal supply, here's this huge carbon capture project
00:42:13 like the chairman was just talking about.
00:42:15 Here's how we're going to provide base load electricity, you know, for the
00:42:21 -- not only for the grid, as well as natural gas and so forth and oil that
00:42:25 we need.
00:42:27 Also, Project Tundra, DOE, Department of Energy, just awarded $350 million
00:42:31 for Minn Kota to do the same thing with their coal-fired electric plant,
00:42:36 again, stability of the grid.
00:42:38 They need access to these mineral acres owned by individuals, okay?
00:42:43 They're not even your acres, okay?
00:42:45 And so we've got to address this.
00:42:47 The second thing I want to bring up is just what the chairman was talking
00:42:50 about, the conservation lease program.
00:42:54 Under the federal law, the Federal Lands Management Act of 1976 requires
00:43:01 multiple use on these federal lands.
00:43:06 And once you put those easements in place on millions and millions of acres,
00:43:10 that won't be multiple use.
00:43:11 That contravenes the law, does it not?
00:43:15 Senator, the land in question, BLM lands, will still be used for -- they will
00:43:22 be multipurpose still.
00:43:24 The existing leases will not be jeopardized in any way.
00:43:32 The grazing permits, people will still be able to use the land for a
00:43:36 multiuse purpose.
00:43:38 Not on the lands that you restrict with those easements.
00:43:41 You are taking them out of multiple use and contravention of the law.
00:43:47 Would you like to add?
00:43:49 Would you mind if Laura Daniel Davis worked on this?
00:43:52 Please.
00:43:53 Senator, I just wanted to provide a short clarification.
00:43:57 The mitigation and restoration leases will be time-bound, and they'll be
00:44:01 specific to activity in the case of mitigation, probably tied to a project
00:44:05 proponent.
00:44:07 And in the case of restoration, a specific restoration objective.
00:44:10 So they're not unbounded by time, and they will be specific to the work that
00:44:16 is meant to be done.
00:44:17 I just wanted to be sure.
00:44:18 But as to those lands, they no longer will be multiple use.
00:44:22 I think that -- I don't expect that they would be limiting in terms of
00:44:27 recreation.
00:44:28 I suspect even in the case of grazing leases, that they may wish to also
00:44:32 have a restoration lease potentially.
00:44:34 So I don't think they're being taken out of multiple use, and certainly not
00:44:38 for all time, sir.
00:44:39 I see I'm over my time, Mr. Chair.
00:44:41 This is one that we'll end up litigating clearly based on the law.
00:44:47 Thank you, Mr. Chair.
00:44:48 Thanks.
00:44:49 Senator Heinrich.
00:44:50 Thank you, Chairman.
00:44:52 Secretary, in 2022, Congress finally passed the STOP Act.
00:44:56 And I know you're very familiar with this law.
00:44:59 But for my colleagues, it made it illegal to export stolen tribal cultural
00:45:05 patrimony and sell it overseas.
00:45:07 That law authorized $3 million for the Interior Department to coordinate
00:45:13 with State, with Department of Homeland Security, with Department of
00:45:16 Justice, to put a stop to these illegal exports of stolen cultural items.
00:45:22 Your budget request includes $0 to implement that law.
00:45:27 Why on earth is there no funding in this budget for STOP Act
00:45:31 implementation?
00:45:34 Thank you for the question, Senator.
00:45:36 And the 2025 budget advances implementation of the revised NAGPRA
00:45:41 rule and the STOP Act, $7 million across DOI to implement the NAGPRA rule,
00:45:47 $4 million in DOI bureaus to support their compliance, and $3 million in
00:45:52 the National Park Service for grants and assistance in repatriation of
00:45:56 remains and collections.
00:45:58 That's very important work at the National Park Service, but it doesn't
00:46:01 substitute for the coordination with DOJ and DHS.
00:46:05 I think this should be a higher priority for the Department and for the
00:46:09 administration.
00:46:11 Senator, I could just say we'll look forward to working with you to move
00:46:14 that forward and appreciate your support of Indian tribes.
00:46:18 I want to move on to NACA.
00:46:20 That's the North American Wetlands Conservation Act.
00:46:23 In my view, it's the single most successful public-private conservation
00:46:27 partnership in the United States.
00:46:30 It has historically been funded, I think, last year at $49 million.
00:46:36 In this budget, it receives a $16 million cut from $49 down to $33.
00:46:43 Why is this singled out for such a large cut in this budget?
00:46:49 Thank you for the question, Senator.
00:46:51 Of course, our budget includes some tough choices.
00:46:55 It would be great if we had unlimited amounts to put towards these important
00:46:59 efforts.
00:47:01 We took reductions in several very good and important grant and payment
00:47:04 programs like this Conservation Act.
00:47:08 You have a 5 percent increase overall, and this program, which is wildly
00:47:12 successful, has a 33 percent cut.
00:47:16 I would just say that it reflects top priority to fund ongoing operations and
00:47:22 the services Interior directly provides to the public, as well as reflecting
00:47:26 the program receives both mandatory and annual funding each year and a $22
00:47:31 million increase in mandatory funding available for NACA in fiscal year 2025.
00:47:38 Let's move on to the Great American Outdoors Act.
00:47:43 I was proud to join my colleagues on this committee to fully fund the Land
00:47:47 and Water Conservation Fund and provide those five years of extra funding to
00:47:52 address the deferred maintenance backlog.
00:47:56 I think it's important that we get this infrastructure funding to work as
00:48:00 quickly as possible.
00:48:02 For the Fish and Wildlife Service, for the Bureau of Land Management, for the
00:48:05 Park Service, what percentage of funds from the early years of Great American
00:48:09 Outdoors -- that would be like fiscal year '21, fiscal year '22 -- are actually
00:48:14 under contract at this point?
00:48:18 Fiscal year -- well, fiscal year 2021.
00:48:27 If it's okay, I'll have Denise answer it.
00:48:29 I have a chart here, but she is the budget person and has put all these
00:48:33 numbers together.
00:48:34 Denise, you want to address that?
00:48:36 Sure.
00:48:37 Sir, I'd be happy to do that.
00:48:38 Fiscal year '21 projects are 82 percent obligated.
00:48:42 And if I did the break-up for you, the Fish and Wildlife Service is 95 percent
00:48:46 obligated.
00:48:48 The National Park Service is 85 percent obligated.
00:48:50 And, of course, they have the vast amount of funding under them.
00:48:54 The Bureau of Land Management is 70 percent funded, and the Bureau of Indian
00:48:57 Affairs is 34 percent funded.
00:48:59 In fiscal year '22, the department is 54 percent funded.
00:49:03 Why is the Bureau of Indian Affairs number so low?
00:49:07 The Bureau of Indian Affairs program, they work with tribes and other
00:49:12 organizations, and they're doing schools and other things.
00:49:15 And so it's just these are multi-year projects, and they need to work and go
00:49:18 through that process.
00:49:19 So, for example, in 2020, Congress appropriated funding to install HVAC
00:49:23 systems for dormitories at the Navajo Preparatory Academy, and they're still
00:49:28 not installed.
00:49:30 And so I'm just wondering why the Bureau is getting this work done at such a
00:49:35 lower rate than the other agencies.
00:49:39 All right.
00:49:41 So if you wouldn't mind, what I would just say is that the Indian Affairs, I
00:49:45 mean, they do recognize some of their improvements are needed to their deferred
00:49:48 maintenance programs and their processes.
00:49:50 But, of course, what we don't want to do is slow down the progress to
00:49:53 modernize their schools.
00:49:54 And so their actions are underway, of course, including those in response to
00:49:58 the Inspector General report that you're doing.
00:50:01 And they are continuing to implement their critical school facility
00:50:04 improvement and repairs, as well as school replacement programs.
00:50:07 Well, I think we need to really focus on that because it's not an isolated
00:50:12 situation at Navajo Preparatory Academy.
00:50:14 If you look at the crystal boarding school on the Navajo Nation, it's been on
00:50:18 the priority list for a new school building since 2016.
00:50:21 The current timeline for completion is 2027.
00:50:25 So I'd love to see the Bureau implementing these projects at the same rate as
00:50:30 the BLM, at the same rate as the Park Service, as the Fish and Wildlife
00:50:33 Service.
00:50:34 Sure.
00:50:35 Thank you.
00:50:36 Thank you, Senator Heidrich.
00:50:37 Senator Murkowski.
00:50:38 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:50:39 Madam Secretary, I think you know that at these hearings I usually take my time
00:50:44 to ask questions.
00:50:46 But this morning I'm probably going to be talking more than asking questions
00:50:50 because, quite honestly, I've got a lot to say.
00:50:53 And I think you know it's not good feelings.
00:50:58 Right now the State of Alaska is looking at what is coming out of the Department
00:51:02 of Interior, and they're not seeing a single thing that Alaskans are asking of
00:51:07 Interior that is actually advancing.
00:51:10 It seems like every single decision coming out of the Department is working
00:51:15 against Alaskans.
00:51:18 It was a pretty tough week just a couple weeks ago now.
00:51:25 In one day, in one day, the Department closes off 13 million acres of our
00:51:33 petroleum reserve.
00:51:35 In the same day you rejected the Ambler Access Project.
00:51:40 And the heartburn here -- I mean, it's not more than heartburn.
00:51:45 The danger here is you -- this is a project that is literally guaranteed by
00:51:50 federal law.
00:51:51 And you basically have rejected that and closed that off.
00:51:54 You released a major land plan where it took Interior ten full years to fail to
00:51:59 meet the direction of a law that I wrote 20 years ago.
00:52:02 It was to lift the PLO public land orders in Alaska.
00:52:06 It took no time at all to close off millions more acres in the State of
00:52:12 Alaska.
00:52:13 And, again, the kicker on all of this is you did it all on the same day, one
00:52:17 day, one day.
00:52:19 We have actually come to dread Fridays in Alaska because that's when we see
00:52:26 the stuff coming out of Washington, D.C., that is burying Alaska and our
00:52:32 economy.
00:52:33 And these decisions are now piled on top of dozens of others, from your
00:52:36 conservation rule to the cancellation of the leases in the 1002 area to the
00:52:41 looming kneecapping of the oil and gas program in the area that you're
00:52:45 mandated to carry out.
00:52:48 You know, when -- there's a lot of history in Alaska.
00:52:51 You know much of it.
00:52:53 But when signing ANILCA, President Carter promised -- the deal was 100
00:52:58 percent of Alaska's offshore and 95 percent of our onshore would be open to
00:53:02 responsible development.
00:53:04 President Biden voted for that law.
00:53:07 He voted for ANILCA.
00:53:09 But his administration, led by your department, has broken its promises to
00:53:13 Alaskans again and again and again.
00:53:15 And we've kept our side of the bargain here.
00:53:18 We've been working to do just that.
00:53:20 Our environmental record is second to none.
00:53:22 We'll put it up against anyone out there.
00:53:25 But now it's effectively being held against us because Interior's decisions
00:53:29 are punishing us for decades of responsible development.
00:53:33 And ironically, it undermines the President's own policies.
00:53:39 He's talking about all that he wants to do to advance the renewables and EVs.
00:53:43 They all require critical minerals.
00:53:45 Well, where are we going to get the critical minerals?
00:53:48 We have opportunities in Alaska, and a road to those minerals could have been,
00:53:54 hopefully one day will be, a way that we're accessing that.
00:53:58 But in addition to all of this, you're setting a precedent for future
00:54:02 administrations to ignore the law.
00:54:05 We pass things in Congress, we put the laws in place, and the administration
00:54:10 does whatever they please.
00:54:12 And it's doing nothing to protect the environment because we know that our
00:54:15 projects are going to have small footprints.
00:54:19 We put in place the strongest safeguards in the world here.
00:54:23 You've heard it before, but the headline is true.
00:54:25 This administration is sanctioning Alaska.
00:54:29 We're sanctioning Alaska while we're boosting foreign resources.
00:54:33 And you don't pay attention.
00:54:35 You overlook the pollution, the human rights abuses, the regimes that it
00:54:39 enables from Russia and Iran.
00:54:42 And in the meantime, you've got a president that seems to think that Willow
00:54:46 is enough to sustain an entire state.
00:54:50 The administration here has effectively reduced Alaska to nothing more than
00:54:54 a debit card to pay off national environmental groups in an election year.
00:54:59 And I know that that's tough.
00:55:01 I know that that's tough.
00:55:03 But we can't look at it any other way.
00:55:05 There is no valid reason.
00:55:07 There is no good excuse for Interior's decisions.
00:55:11 The department needs to follow the law.
00:55:14 They need to follow the law.
00:55:16 They need to consult with all Alaska Natives, all Alaska Natives, and,
00:55:19 frankly, I think, Clean House at the BLM.
00:55:24 I want you to give this some thought because we're going to have an
00:55:30 opportunity next week at Interior Appropriations for me to ask more
00:55:35 questions, to ask questions.
00:55:37 But I want you to think about this.
00:55:39 What justifies this?
00:55:41 What justifies this singling out of one state, of one state alone, to treat
00:55:47 Alaska in this way and in this manner where you are effectively not only
00:55:51 locking up the resources, you are going against our statehood compact,
00:55:58 you're going against the laws that we have passed, and against policies
00:56:08 that seemingly as an administration you should support?
00:56:12 It seems like we are -- we're the giving tree with more and more being
00:56:17 taken from us every year, but we don't know that there is that much more
00:56:20 to give.
00:56:22 So, again, I'll look forward to the opportunity in the Interior Committee
00:56:29 or the subcommittee to ask these questions.
00:56:31 You probably won't be looking forward to it as much as I will, but I think
00:56:35 Alaskans deserve some answers.
00:56:37 Senator Hickenlooper.
00:56:40 Thank you, Mr. Chair.
00:56:42 I thank all of you for being here today, but also for your service.
00:56:48 Madam Secretary, there is still resonance.
00:56:53 People are still talking about your visits to Colorado.
00:56:56 I just want to make sure you understand that going -- I'm sure it's not easy
00:56:59 to be going all over the country because I hear you're going to everybody's
00:57:02 states.
00:57:04 For a while there I thought Colorado was a special, but you're getting
00:57:07 everywhere.
00:57:09 People really appreciate it.
00:57:11 It makes a big difference for people trying to create a relationship with
00:57:15 the government.
00:57:17 I want to talk a little bit about the Colorado River Basin, of course.
00:57:20 Big for the communities all along the river in all the lower and upper
00:57:24 basin states.
00:57:26 We've had some snow the last couple of years, but the levels at Lake Powell
00:57:31 and Lake Mead are roughly the same levels now that they were two years ago.
00:57:36 I think we've made a lot of progress in the last few years.
00:57:41 I think while conditions have improved, we've still got a lot of work to do.
00:57:45 I just want to take your pulse and see how optimistic you felt on the
00:57:50 progress we've made.
00:57:54 Thank you so much for the question, Senator.
00:57:57 Yes, we've always enjoyed our opportunities to be in Colorado.
00:58:01 So thank you for always welcoming us.
00:58:06 As you know, the Colorado River Basin is incredibly important.
00:58:11 It provides water for more than 40 million Americans, seven states, 30
00:58:15 tribes.
00:58:17 We're actually very proud of the fact that our team has worked diligently to
00:58:23 make sure that everybody is at the table.
00:58:26 It's really the first time that Indian tribes have had an opportunity to be
00:58:29 at the table and have a real voice in these negotiations.
00:58:34 And I do want to say that it has been an unprecedented level of
00:58:41 collaboration and partnership with those entities, and Mexico, I will say.
00:58:48 We've made significant investments to conserve water and modernize critical
00:58:52 infrastructure.
00:58:54 And we've laid the foundation to ensure that future guidelines and strategies
00:58:57 will be sufficiently robust and adaptive to withstand the uncertainty of
00:59:02 climate change.
00:59:04 We're grateful for the moisture we've gotten.
00:59:06 We know how precious that is in the West.
00:59:08 It doesn't mean that it will last from one year to the next.
00:59:11 But we're grateful for Congress's support and the work that we've been able
00:59:16 to do there.
00:59:18 Yeah, we appreciate all the effort.
00:59:20 And as you know, Camille Tutin is a remarkable public servant and has done --
00:59:28 I'm not sure the woman sleeps.
00:59:30 You should worry about her health.
00:59:33 Also, I am very sober about climate change.
00:59:40 You referred to the uncertainty of climate change.
00:59:42 I feel there's a fairly high degree of certainty that it is changing and it's
00:59:46 moving more rapidly than we thought.
00:59:49 Things that I -- you know, I got a master's in earth and environmental science
00:59:52 back in 1979.
00:59:54 Don't want to date myself.
00:59:56 But back then we called it the greenhouse effect.
00:59:59 But much of what we predicted back in the '80s and the '90s is coming true.
01:00:03 The wildfire, the droughts, the rising sea level, the extreme weather that
01:00:08 creates hurricanes and tornadoes.
01:00:12 I wonder -- part of what I think as we address this, we're going to have to go
01:00:16 more rapidly and change the way we permit for clean energy if we're going to
01:00:20 have any real chance of succeeding in this.
01:00:23 I was excited to see BLM last -- announced last month that categorical
01:00:30 exclusions will enable the agency to expedite the review and approval of
01:00:34 geothermal exploration proposals.
01:00:37 I was knocked over by the USGS report looking at the potential of geothermal
01:00:42 and how much -- how much larger that potential is than I thought.
01:00:47 Can you speak to how permitting reforms can fit into meeting our climate
01:00:50 goals, especially if we can prioritize developing projects in less sensitive
01:00:55 locations?
01:00:56 And obviously we always are going to make sure we have a platform to make
01:00:59 sure the public is heard and everyone gets a hearing.
01:01:02 >> Absolutely.
01:01:03 And thank you for that question, Senator.
01:01:05 Of course we need faster permitting for clean energy if we have any chance of
01:01:08 addressing the climate crisis that we're experiencing now.
01:01:12 Last month I was very excited to see BLM announce new categorical exclusions
01:01:18 that will enable the agency to expedite the review and approval of those
01:01:22 geothermal exploration proposals.
01:01:25 We know that more is needed to put clean geothermal energy on the same
01:01:29 footing as oil and gas, and so we're committed to permitting efficiencies
01:01:34 across everything that we do.
01:01:37 The Department of the Interior has a significant role to play, as we have
01:01:41 made establishing a clean energy future one of our key priorities, and I
01:01:45 think that is shown in the work that we've done all over the clean energy
01:01:49 spectrum.
01:01:50 As you know, the White House Council on Environmental Quality released a
01:01:54 final rule to reform, simplify, and modernize the federal environmental
01:01:59 review process under the National Environmental Policy Act.
01:02:03 And so we'll continue working, of course, with everyone to ensure that we
01:02:09 can move this forward.
01:02:10 Great.
01:02:11 Well, thank you, and we salute all the hard work you guys are doing.
01:02:14 We really appreciate it.
01:02:15 I yield back to the chair.
01:02:17 Thank you, sir.
01:02:18 Senator Risch.
01:02:19 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
01:02:20 Madam Secretary, as you recall, last time we were here we had a spirited
01:02:23 discussion about the Lava Range Project.
01:02:26 I think you're quite familiar with that.
01:02:29 I delivered you a very clear message about what the people of Idaho think
01:02:33 about this and the tens of thousands of people that are affected by this, all
01:02:37 of whom oppose it.
01:02:38 We've actually identified three people that are for it, but those three
01:02:42 people have a financial interest in the project itself.
01:02:48 Where are you on this?
01:02:51 Thank you, Senator.
01:02:52 And we're currently working to meet the direction included in the 2024
01:02:57 appropriations bill to conduct additional consultations with local elected
01:03:01 officials and stakeholders.
01:03:04 We will report on the status of those consultations as required by law, and
01:03:08 we will not complete the final EIS until we've conducted all of those
01:03:12 consultations and incorporated any of those relevant -- any of the relevant
01:03:18 information into the analysis.
01:03:20 So you say you're in the process of that.
01:03:23 Since we had that discussion last time, can you tell this committee whether or
01:03:27 not you can confirm what I told you, and that is the number of people in Idaho
01:03:32 that support this, you can count on one hand?
01:03:35 Senator, in the consultations that we've had, there have been roughly 26
01:03:40 government-to-government consultation meetings with tribes, at least 19
01:03:44 meetings with county commissioners from Lincoln, Jerome, and Minidoka
01:03:48 counties, 14 briefings for members of Congress and their staff, six meetings
01:03:53 with local organizations, four meetings with grazing permittees and other
01:03:57 members of the agricultural committee, and six public meetings on the draft
01:04:01 environmental impact statement.
01:04:03 We are doing our work.
01:04:05 That's good.
01:04:06 Can you identify for me the people who support this project?
01:04:10 Because this will only take a few seconds for you to name the three people.
01:04:13 Thank you, Senator.
01:04:14 Thank you, Senator.
01:04:15 I appreciate you mentioning that you have found three people.
01:04:20 Have you not found those three?
01:04:22 I can give you their names.
01:04:24 Thank you, Senator.
01:04:25 We'd be happy to be in touch with your office regarding this issue, and happy
01:04:30 to have a conversation with you and your staff about who we're talking to.
01:04:36 Sure.
01:04:37 And that's a great list of people.
01:04:39 Tell me, how many people have you found on that list that support this project?
01:04:43 Senator, I don't have a number for you today.
01:04:47 You surely have a feeling about this.
01:04:50 Have you found anybody that's in favor of this?
01:04:54 Senator, I do truly appreciate your line of questioning here, and as I mentioned,
01:04:59 we'd be happy to be in touch with you.
01:05:02 No, no, no, no, no.
01:05:03 Have you found anybody that said, "We support this project.
01:05:08 I support this project"?
01:05:09 Have you found such a person or an entity?
01:05:12 Senator, I have some really amazing and dutiful career staff.
01:05:22 Your staff supports this, I gather, but I'm not looking for staff that supports this.
01:05:26 No, I understand that.
01:05:28 Tell me somebody who supports this project.
01:05:31 I don't have a list of people currently, but I'm happy to get back with you.
01:05:36 Can you name one?
01:05:38 Senator, I would be happy to reach out to you.
01:05:41 You can't tell me one person today.
01:05:43 I haven't actually done the conversations.
01:05:45 As I mentioned, I have staff and people at the department who have carried on these conversations.
01:05:53 Great. Can you give me a list of those people that support this?
01:05:56 Will you commit to do that?
01:05:57 Senator, we will commit to getting in touch with your office about the list.
01:06:01 Now, will you commit to give me a list of people and/or entities who support this project?
01:06:08 Will you commit to that?
01:06:09 Senator, I will commit to being in touch with your office about this project.
01:06:14 Now, will you provide me the information I'm asking for?
01:06:19 And that is a list.
01:06:20 You are required to go out and publicly contact people and determine who supports this and who opposes this.
01:06:28 Will you give me a list of the people and entities who support this project?
01:06:33 Senator, we will have that for the record.
01:06:36 When will you have that for me?
01:06:38 As soon as I get back to my office, I will come.
01:06:41 It won't take you but minutes to put it together, believe me.
01:06:44 I appreciate that. Thank you, Senator.
01:06:46 Then the question I have for you is this.
01:06:48 Suppose you find what I'm telling you is true.
01:06:51 And that is there are tens of thousands, perhaps in the hundreds of thousands of Idahoans who are opposed to this
01:06:58 and a very small handful of people who support this.
01:07:03 What do you do about that?
01:07:05 Senator, we take all of, as I mentioned in my previous response,
01:07:10 we take all of those comments from all of the meetings and the entities that we've had.
01:07:14 We put that together with other analyses such as the science and the data,
01:07:20 and we come to a final decision about the issue.
01:07:26 Will you be moved if the position is as I have described for you?
01:07:31 Senator, we always take the public comments into grave consideration when we are considering these things.
01:07:40 It means a lot to us.
01:07:42 We know that the people on the ground are important, and we take their comments into deep consideration, yes.
01:07:51 But you are not going to commit that you will abandon this if indeed the situation is that nobody in Idaho wants this?
01:07:57 Senator, I appreciate and recognize that you do not like this project.
01:08:03 No, no, no, not me.
01:08:05 The people of Idaho do not like this project.
01:08:08 I don't like it either, but the people of Idaho do not like this project, and not by one or two,
01:08:14 but I'm telling you there's nobody here.
01:08:16 You can't even name one person that you think is opposed to it.
01:08:20 My time is up, Madam Chairman.
01:08:22 Look, don't do this.
01:08:24 Your own agency has said don't do this.
01:08:27 The people of Idaho said don't do this.
01:08:29 Don't do this.
01:08:31 Thank you, Madam Chair.
01:08:33 Senator Hirono.
01:08:34 Thank you, Madam Chair.
01:08:36 Welcome, Secretary Holland.
01:08:39 Before I begin with the questions, I just want to thank your department for your part in having Congress finally approve
01:08:48 the Compact of Free Association Agreements, which took years to negotiate with the island nations of the Marshall Islands,
01:08:57 Palau, and Micronesia, and these compacts are critical to our national security, especially in the Indo-Pacom AOR.
01:09:05 The challenge with these compacts, though, was that it involved three departments, yours, state, and the DOD,
01:09:14 so we can imagine all the moving parts and the number of chairs and ranking members who had to agree to this.
01:09:22 Before Senator Reich leaves, I want to thank him for his part.
01:09:25 Hello.
01:09:26 Thank you, Senator Reich.
01:09:28 He was ranking on foreign relations, very much a supporter of the compacts.
01:09:32 An important part of the compacts was the restoration of federal benefits to the citizens of these compact nations who live in our country.
01:09:43 These compacts are so important that the citizens of these island nations are able to come and live in the United States without the need for visas.
01:09:51 They are, as far as I know, the only group of people who are able to do that.
01:09:56 But I'm really thankful that the chair of this committee, the ranking member of this committee, and over a dozen chairs and ranking members
01:10:03 in both the Senate and the House worked hard to get this done.
01:10:08 So, Madam Secretary, I thank you for your support.
01:10:13 Moving on.
01:10:14 Hawaii experienced an unprecedented degree of devastation from the Maui wildfires that occurred last August.
01:10:24 And afterwards, our natural resource managers, like so many others across the country,
01:10:29 found that there was not enough native plant material available to adequately revegetate the burned landscapes.
01:10:37 In order to address this issue, I have been working on a bill that would establish a national interagency seed and restoration center
01:10:44 to enhance the availability of native plant materials across the United States.
01:10:49 This would complement your announcement in February about the National Seed Strategy Keystone Initiative.
01:10:55 Can you talk a bit about the importance of Congress working with your department on this effort to ensure that land managers all across the country
01:11:03 have a consistent supply of regionally appropriate native plant materials?
01:11:12 Yes, thank you, Senator, for your support on that.
01:11:16 And, you know, we battle invasive species all over the country.
01:11:20 And in Hawaii, it's especially important.
01:11:24 Native plants are important.
01:11:26 Promoting native plants is a critical way to help prevent against wildfire risk in the face of climate change.
01:11:32 I know that the department provided technical assistance on your draft bill to establish a national interagency seed and restoration center.
01:11:40 We remain committed to working with you on this important issue.
01:11:44 So I remain saddened by what happened in Maui, and we'll do everything we can to help.
01:11:53 And, of course, as we face these natural disasters all across the country,
01:11:58 I think that the restoration of native plant material is one approach to preventing these kinds of devastations.
01:12:10 I know that addressing the missing and murdered native peoples is, especially, of course, the women and girls, is an important issue for you.
01:12:20 And is it still an issue that you are addressing?
01:12:25 Can you talk a little bit about the progress that is being made to prevent these kinds of --
01:12:33 what's happening to native women and girls?
01:12:35 And you probably are aware that in Hawaii, one-fourth of the missing children are native Hawaiian women and girls.
01:12:44 So can you update me a bit on your addressing this devastation?
01:12:51 Thank you, Senator.
01:12:52 Yes.
01:12:54 As you know, we started the missing and murdered unit in 2021, dedicated investigators for this issue.
01:13:04 And so far we've investigated 950 missing and murdered persons cases and solved or closed 595 missing persons cases.
01:13:13 We're staffing up the MMU, and it continues as 38 of the 63 positions are now filled.
01:13:22 We're still working to make sure we can fill all of those positions,
01:13:26 and we'll continue to collect and review unsolved cases involving missing and murdered so that we can add other cases.
01:13:35 But we're committed to it and appreciate your commitment as well.
01:13:41 I want to commend you for your continuing efforts in these lines,
01:13:45 and I would assume that you are pursuing prosecution of the perpetrators.
01:13:51 Yes, thank you.
01:13:52 Thank you.
01:13:53 I have a few other questions for the record that I will submit.
01:13:57 Thank you, Madam Chair.
01:13:58 Thank you.
01:13:59 Senator Daines.
01:14:01 Thank you, Madam Chairman.
01:14:03 Secretary Haaland, exactly a year ago you were before this committee to testify
01:14:07 and ask you about the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service's 12-month status review on grizzly bears
01:14:12 in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem and Northern Continental Divide Ecosystem.
01:14:15 We're now 15 months into what's supposed to be a 12-month status review, and there's no one in sight.
01:14:22 Both grizzly populations are well over objective, set by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service,
01:14:28 and they continue to grow both in number and range.
01:14:31 In fact, the Fish and Wildlife Service scientists have twice determined that the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem bears
01:14:38 have recovered and they've delisted them, but litigation and court rulings prevented those from going into effect.
01:14:45 Now, we should be celebrating the fact that grizzly bear has recovered
01:14:50 rather than dragging out the delisting process.
01:14:54 Montanans in grizzly bear country have been forced to adjust their life
01:14:57 and to be bear aware at all times as they live with the bears.
01:15:01 Where the kids play, hiking with bear spray, fencing gardens, fencing playgrounds at schools,
01:15:09 everything is done with grizzly bears in mind.
01:15:12 My question is, what is the target number of grizzly bears in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem
01:15:17 and the Northern Continental Divide Ecosystem needed to meet the Fish and Wildlife Service's criteria for recovery?
01:15:22 Senator, I would have to get back to you with the numbers that the scientists and that the data shows,
01:15:29 but I can tell you that the reviews...
01:15:30 No, no, just what's the recovery target?
01:15:32 What's the recovery... not what the current populations are, what's the recovery target?
01:15:36 Senator, I don't have...
01:15:38 I've asked you five times since you began the process.
01:15:42 First, when we began the process for your confirmation, before we became public,
01:15:46 I asked you and you said, "I don't know."
01:15:49 If I haven't telegraphed the test questions to you, let me be clear, I'm just asking, "What is it?"
01:15:54 So you don't know.
01:15:55 I don't have the target number.
01:15:57 That's another way to say, "I don't know."
01:15:59 But I would be happy to get back with you.
01:16:01 Okay, well, you know what?
01:16:03 Unlike Senator Risch's question, you don't have to get back to me.
01:16:06 I will tell you what they are, and please write these down.
01:16:09 The Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem recovery target is 500 bears.
01:16:15 Write that down.
01:16:16 And next time I ask you the question, when you come before me, please have that answer for me.
01:16:20 Thank you, sir.
01:16:21 The second is the Northern Continental Divide Ecosystem.
01:16:24 That number is 800 bears.
01:16:26 So 500 for Greater Yellowstone, 800 for the Northern Continental Divide.
01:16:31 My next question, how many grizzly bears are currently estimated,
01:16:36 according to FWS information, to be in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem
01:16:41 and the Northern Continental Divide Ecosystem?
01:16:44 Are you asking me to add these two numbers together?
01:16:48 No, you wouldn't do that, because those are the targets.
01:16:50 So target is the threshold we need to meet or exceed to get delisted.
01:16:55 So that's the target.
01:16:56 I'm asking you now, how many bears are there?
01:16:58 Let's start with the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem.
01:17:00 Senator, I have a suspicion that you would just tell me that number,
01:17:05 because you likely know it.
01:17:07 If you would like to tell me, I'm happy.
01:17:10 I don't have the number.
01:17:12 So here you can write down target, 500 and 800.
01:17:15 And I'm going to give you the numbers from FWS.
01:17:17 These aren't numbers that my staff made up.
01:17:19 OK.
01:17:20 These are the 2022 numbers, the most current data.
01:17:23 It's 965 in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem.
01:17:29 It's 1,138 in the Northern Continental Divide Ecosystem.
01:17:33 So make a chart.
01:17:34 500 is the target.
01:17:36 Actual is 965.
01:17:38 That's Yellowstone.
01:17:40 And now the Northern Continental Divide, the target is 800.
01:17:44 Actual, according to FWS, is 1,138.
01:17:49 So if the populations are greater than the recovery target,
01:17:56 would you conclude the grizzly bears have now recovered?
01:18:01 Senator, unfortunately, I am not a scientist.
01:18:04 So I don't -- I refrain from --
01:18:06 You are the Secretary of Interior.
01:18:07 Indeed.
01:18:08 With complete respect.
01:18:09 Indeed.
01:18:10 You're in line of succession of the presidency of the United States.
01:18:12 I appreciate that.
01:18:13 But I am not a scientist.
01:18:14 You are the Secretary of Interior.
01:18:15 So if the target is 500 and the actual number is 965,
01:18:20 nearly twice the target, have we recovered?
01:18:23 Senator, I'm happy to ask the scientists when I get back to the Department of the Interior.
01:18:28 I am not a scientist.
01:18:29 I don't want to speculate what the science would say to your --
01:18:34 The science tells us we're well over the targets.
01:18:37 And here's another question.
01:18:39 When did the numbers for the greater Yellowstone ecosystem,
01:18:43 the population of bears, exceed for the first time the recovery target of 500?
01:18:49 What year was that?
01:18:50 Senator, I can't tell you that.
01:18:53 I will tell you that.
01:18:54 It was 2002.
01:18:56 It was 22 years ago where the population targets first exceeded the recovery target.
01:19:06 22 years.
01:19:09 So question, will you commit to finalize at least the now overdue status review on grizzly bears?
01:19:18 It was supposed to be a 12-month review.
01:19:20 We're now into 15 months.
01:19:22 Will you commit to getting that done here?
01:19:25 Senator, I know the reviews for Montana and Wyoming began in February 2023,
01:19:31 and I believe that the Fish and Wildlife Service does not have a date for completion,
01:19:35 but I will ask --
01:19:36 Let me ask you, that was --
01:19:37 But when we started in February, it was a 12-month review.
01:19:41 Indeed.
01:19:42 I can open my calendar up here, and now we're in month 15.
01:19:44 Thank you.
01:19:45 You're past due.
01:19:46 Thank you, Senator.
01:19:47 Yeah, and not only that, we are way over the targets.
01:19:50 I am pleading with you to look at the science, delist the bears,
01:19:55 return the management of this incredible species back to the people of Montana where it belongs.
01:20:02 Thank you, Senator.
01:20:03 Senator King.
01:20:04 Thank you, Madam Chair.
01:20:07 Madam Secretary, you may be surprised, I'm going to start with a compliment.
01:20:13 This week the department published draft wind lease areas on the East Coast,
01:20:18 two off the shore of Maine, one -- or rather six off the coast of Massachusetts.
01:20:23 What I want to compliment you on is listening to the people of Maine,
01:20:27 listening to our congressional delegation, and taking those lease areas out of what's called Lobster Management Area 1.
01:20:38 That was important to us as we pursue our offshore wind goals,
01:20:43 that they be done compatibly and responsibly with regard to our important fisheries.
01:20:49 So the fact that the department removed potential lease sites from Lobster Management 1 is a big deal in Maine,
01:20:56 and I want to express appreciation to the department for that.
01:21:02 That's the good news.
01:21:06 I was one of the folks that worked very hard on the Great American Outdoors Act,
01:21:10 and a key part of the Great American Outdoors Act was a fund to deal with deferred maintenance in our national parks,
01:21:18 which was and is a very serious problem.
01:21:22 Here's the problem.
01:21:25 The budget underfunds maintenance, so we're digging a hole again.
01:21:30 I don't know if this is in the expectation that we're going to be able to do another Great American Outdoors Act
01:21:35 or that there will be a good ferry come and take care of the deferred maintenance,
01:21:40 but the maintenance budget is way below what it should be.
01:21:45 A kind of rule of thumb for businesses is 2 to 5 percent of the asset value for annual maintenance.
01:21:53 In that case, this would be a $4 billion or $5 billion budget.
01:21:56 Instead, it's a $569 million budget.
01:22:00 In other words, we're funding about 10 percent of what should be the maintenance for our national parks.
01:22:07 I have talked to the Office of Management and Budget about this.
01:22:09 I've talked to your department about this.
01:22:11 I hope next year when you're proposing a budget, you're going to fight for a maintenance,
01:22:16 for an adequate maintenance budget for the national parks.
01:22:19 It does not make sense on any level to be continuing to defer maintenance on our gem properties across the country.
01:22:31 Will you commit to aggressively fight for a decent maintenance budget?
01:22:36 Senator, we are so grateful for GOA and understand how important it is.
01:22:41 I want you to know that the budget does balance a continuing commitment to address the maintenance backlog
01:22:48 through all sources of funding.
01:22:50 In addition to the $1.3 billion from the GOA Legacy Restoration Fund,
01:22:54 the budget proposes over $993 million to prevent or eliminate deferred maintenance from multiple sources,
01:23:01 including line item construction, cyclic maintenance, Federal Lands Recreation Enhancement Act,
01:23:07 and the Federal Lands Transportation Act.
01:23:09 We'll continue to discuss this.
01:23:11 I believe that the fundamental maintenance budget is below where it should be,
01:23:14 and we're simply digging the deferred maintenance hole once again in contravention to the intent of the Great American Outdoors Act.
01:23:25 Next issue is permitting.
01:23:28 We are not going to be able to achieve a clean energy future if we can't build things,
01:23:34 whether it's transmission lines, whether it's mining facilities, processing facilities.
01:23:42 In other words, the environmental benefits we want to obtain are going to require going through a permitting process.
01:23:51 The problem is your department sits astride a great deal of the time involved in these permitting processes
01:24:00 by virtue of the time it takes to do the analysis and the impact analysis.
01:24:04 You just talked to Senator Daines about a project that was due in February.
01:24:09 It's not done yet.
01:24:12 From the point of view of the environment, we have to do a better job.
01:24:16 We don't have time to spend years and years and years and years waiting for an environmental analysis
01:24:22 to permit a project that has a net environmental gain.
01:24:28 And my problem is that there seems to be no sense of urgency in getting these studies done.
01:24:35 Here's my standard for my staff.
01:24:38 If Eisenhower retook Europe in 11 months, nothing should take longer than that.
01:24:45 If Eisenhower can take Europe in 11 months, you should be able to determine what the impact on the environment is
01:24:52 of a particular project in a particular place.
01:24:55 Please, please work with your department, work with your scientists to incur a sense of urgency
01:25:03 because this is urgent for the environment.
01:25:06 That's the point I'm trying to make.
01:25:07 This isn't an anti-environment position.
01:25:09 This is a pro-environment position.
01:25:11 But we can never get where we need to get on clean energy as long as environmentally sound projects
01:25:18 languish in permitting hell at the Department of the Interior.
01:25:24 Senator, thank you for acknowledging that this is an important issue.
01:25:30 The department, as we've sought ways to improve permitting efficiency in the face of a growing workload,
01:25:36 that exceeds available staffing, quite frankly.
01:25:39 The Fish and Wildlife Service is streamlining its environmental review process
01:25:44 and inventing in our online system to provide greater transparency
01:25:47 and improve both the process and conservation outcomes.
01:25:50 We're working at it, and we feel very proud of the work that we have been able to do
01:25:58 with our clean energy projects and appreciate the opportunity to --
01:26:04 >> When you get back to the office, send a one-word e-mail to your permitting staff, Eisenhower.
01:26:11 Thank you, Madam Chair.
01:26:18 >> I slipped back in, and Madam Chair did a great job while I was gone.
01:26:22 With that, we go to Senator Lee at this time.
01:26:25 >> Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
01:26:26 Thanks to all of you for being here today.
01:26:28 Secretary Haaland, I understand you've been directly involved with the ongoing management process
01:26:34 for the Bears Ears National Monument.
01:26:36 Now, the Bears Ears Commission, which was formed following President Obama's creation
01:26:42 of the Bears Ears National Monument on December 28, 2016,
01:26:46 includes representatives from five different tribes.
01:26:50 Yes or no, did you commit to that commission, to the Bears Ears Commission,
01:26:55 that the commission would be able to draft an alternative that would be designated
01:26:59 as the preferred alternative to the management plan?
01:27:06 >> Senator, thank you for the question, and I would say that that draft plan incorporates considerable input
01:27:16 from the Bears Ears Commission, the State of Utah, and other cooperating agencies.
01:27:21 >> I understand that. I understand that.
01:27:23 And it's also my understanding that you made a commitment to the commission,
01:27:26 that the commission would be able to draft an alternative that would be the preferred designated plan.
01:27:32 Now, you and I spoke in December about the Bears Ears Land Exchange that we had been working with in good faith
01:27:41 and put a lot of effort into it, really over the last three years.
01:27:45 And after putting in that much effort on the end of the State of Utah,
01:27:51 I was really disappointed with your decision to proceed with a temporary plan instead of a permanent land exchange.
01:27:58 But is it any wonder why the State of Utah withdrew from that exchange?
01:28:03 Well, it's because of this sort of thing, of the target shifting after the fact.
01:28:08 Now, the draft management plan includes the phrase "collaboration" or "coordination"
01:28:13 in reference to collaboration coordination with the Bears Ears no fewer than 559 times,
01:28:20 while the phrase "collaboration with the State of Utah" is mentioned only once
01:28:24 and "coordination with San Juan County, Utah" is not mentioned at all, not a single time,
01:28:29 even though this is home to the Bears Ears National Monument.
01:28:34 And then, according to the draft plan, and from what I understand of how things unfolded,
01:28:40 the commission was provided with over 100 meetings to offer and receive input.
01:28:47 And meanwhile, as a cooperating agency, the State of Utah was provided only six meetings to offer input into the plan,
01:28:55 and two of those were listed as input only.
01:29:00 So, effectively, four meetings versus 100 meetings. It's quite a disparity.
01:29:05 All that Utah has asked for over the years is a real, actual seat at the table.
01:29:11 And it's obvious that you've given the Bears Ears Commission a seat and left Utah off in the corner wearing a dunce cap.
01:29:20 So, it appears to me that the department's weighing stakeholder input disproportionately,
01:29:29 far above any position where they're taking with serious or even comparable consideration the affected state and county.
01:29:41 The Bears Ears Commission's website, for its part, states openly that it's funded by Resources Legacy Fund,
01:29:49 a dark money, radical environmental group.
01:29:52 However, the Bears Ears Commission is nowhere to be found on the fund's financial disclosures.
01:29:57 It appears that this is just another example of a radical, far-left NGO that's seeking cover to do what it's doing by doing it through tribes.
01:30:09 And, sadly, you've decided to let the whims and the wishes of this dark money group
01:30:16 effectively dictate the management of 1.4 million acres of federal land,
01:30:20 land that hard-working people in my state rely on for their livelihood.
01:30:27 Look, I want to be clear about something. It isn't too late. It isn't too late to fix this.
01:30:36 And I ask that you please do so.
01:30:38 The state of Utah, San Juan County, we all stand ready to assist in finding a balanced approach to land management,
01:30:47 not only for Bears Ears, but across the entire expanse of the 67% of my state that's owned by the federal government,
01:30:59 causing us to feel very much and be very much at the whim and at the caprice of the U.S. Department of the Interior.
01:31:09 Look, we all want to work together, but as a state that's occupied to the degree of 67% by your department,
01:31:23 we first need a seat at the table. Thank you.
01:31:30 Thank you, Mr. Chair. Madam Secretary, thank you for being here.
01:31:33 And thank you for your attention to Nevada and your staff.
01:31:37 You've been out there so many times.
01:31:39 And I have to say, you have some amazing staff on the ground there in Nevada that I have the opportunity to work with every day.
01:31:45 They're committed. They're passionate about the issue. They really believe in the work that they're doing.
01:31:50 I do want to talk to you about an area that I'm focused on in Nevada, and I hopefully can get your support.
01:31:57 This is a statewide resource management plan, a modernizing issue that we need to focus on.
01:32:04 Last year, I sent a letter supporting efforts by BLM's state office in Nevada at undertaking that statewide resource management plan
01:32:11 to allow for a comprehensive science-based approach to determine management for BLM lands across the whole state
01:32:18 and would thus be able to incorporate entire ecoregions, competing land use needs, and varied stakeholders.
01:32:25 It's particularly important in Nevada because Nevada contains 48 million acres of BLM-managed lands.
01:32:33 That's three-fifths of Nevada's total land mass.
01:32:37 Currently, there are 12 resource management plans in effect, with some completed over 36 years ago.
01:32:44 These plans are out of date. They're impacting BLM's multiple-use management mission across my state.
01:32:51 However, several rules are being processed at the department level that have significant impact to how our lands are managed in my state,
01:32:59 including the oil and gas leasing rule, the solar PEC rule, the public lands rule, and others.
01:33:06 So my question to you is, what is the status of Nevada's statewide resource management plan?
01:33:13 What steps are being taken to align all of these rules with our local and state planning efforts?
01:33:21 And can we expect to see something relatively soon as we build out our clean energy across the land and our mining opportunities across the land as well?
01:33:32 Thank you, Senator.
01:33:34 First, I want you to know that we support wholeheartedly the RMP work of the Nevada BLM.
01:33:41 Thank you for working to build the relationship with those folks.
01:33:46 They do work very hard and care deeply about your state.
01:33:50 And with respect to the rulemakings, the public lands, oil and gas, renewables, as well as the updated Western Solar Plan,
01:33:58 they're all complementary and will ensure consistency across BLM's conservation and permitting work.
01:34:05 So happy to get with you and your staff, kind of talk about how all those things fit together if that's helpful to you.
01:34:14 But we appreciate the opportunities to be in Nevada, and we'll do whatever we can to make sure that things are --
01:34:26 Thank you. And I will take you up on that offer.
01:34:28 We will have a meeting to go over the resource management plan to figure out how we incorporate all of these rules.
01:34:33 It's not just for me. It is for so many people in the state of Nevada that need an understanding of what that looks like,
01:34:39 including our local and state and really private sector partners as well.
01:34:46 So I will take you up on that.
01:34:48 I want to call your attention to the pressing threats to Ash Meadows National Wildlife Refuge
01:34:53 and the Devil's Hole unit of Death Valley National Park in Nye County, Nevada.
01:34:58 I was just there. It's an absolutely spectacular area, and it's threatened by a proposal to drill into the sensitive groundwater system,
01:35:06 which then could dry up seeps and springs at our core of this refuge,
01:35:11 and to the tribal community that cherishes this land.
01:35:17 I'm going to be sending you a letter on the matter shortly,
01:35:19 but can I get your commitment to work with me and my constituents to make sure that the incredible resources in the refuge and park are protected in the future?
01:35:27 We'll absolutely be happy to look at a proposal for review.
01:35:32 So we'll be in touch about that as well.
01:35:34 Thank you.
01:35:36 And then I want to draw your attention to the contamination at the Duck Valley Reservation.
01:35:40 The Interior Department, including the Assistant Secretary for Indian Affairs,
01:35:44 has promised the Shoshone Paiute tribes of the Duck Valley Reservation that the Department would put resources behind remediating the tragic and longstanding contamination
01:35:54 caused by BIA's dumping of heating oil, pesticides, and the use of Agent Orange on the Duck Valley Reservation.
01:36:03 This has been going on for decades.
01:36:05 We have heard that assessments need to be done in order to fund and remediate the issues,
01:36:09 yet we have recently heard that BIA missed the timeline for the first milestone in an agreed-to schedule between BIA, EPA, and the tribes.
01:36:21 And BIA has failed to finalize the draft assessment by April 12th.
01:36:25 We have also heard that BIA will not be able to meet the June 30th deadline to finalize the scope of the work.
01:36:32 BIA has indicated that this assessment is a prerequisite to starting remediation,
01:36:37 so that's why we need to get this going as soon as possible.
01:36:40 So my question is, why is this taking so long?
01:36:43 And can you give me answers to why BIA is missing this deadline
01:36:48 and not making this a priority to remediate this land that is poisoning the members of the Duck Valley Reservation?
01:36:56 Thank you for that, Senator, and I want you to know that this contamination issue is extremely important to me personally
01:37:04 and important to our department. It's a priority.
01:37:08 So I'll take those comments back, and I will get answers, and I will make sure that we respond to you in a timely manner.
01:37:15 Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
01:37:18 Absolutely. Senator Cassidy.
01:37:20 Madam Secretary, thank you for being here.
01:37:23 Madam Secretary, I'm from Louisiana. You're going to guess what I'm going to be interested in.
01:37:27 Is there going to be -- it's a plain question -- will the Department of Interior hold at least three lease sales in the next five years?
01:37:38 Yes, Senator.
01:37:40 So 2024 is the first year without a lease sale since 1965.
01:37:47 I'm worried that lease sale 262 might slip till the end of 2025.
01:37:53 DOI must complete several reviews and planning steps prior to the lease being issued.
01:37:58 I'm told it has hardly begun the process.
01:38:01 So given that the Department of Interior has not issued the notice of intent for lease sale 262,
01:38:07 when is the earliest by which the agency can hold the lease sale?
01:38:11 Senator, that review is underway, and I promise you we will get back to you.
01:38:20 The lease you refer to is in our five-year plan, and the law directs the process.
01:38:27 I gather that, but we're now like almost halfway through 2024,
01:38:32 and I'm told the necessary steps prior to that lease sale have not hardly begun.
01:38:38 So how long does that process typically take to be completed?
01:38:45 Senator, with your permission, I would pass this question to our acting Deputy Secretary.
01:38:53 Thank you, Madam Secretary, and thank you, Senator.
01:38:55 I just want to reaffirm what the Secretary said, that the first steps are underway.
01:38:59 With regard to your timing question, it typically takes approximately 18 months, I think, at a minimum,
01:39:06 we would say, for our folks to do diligent review.
01:39:09 So, again, I've been told that it's hardly started, and so 18 months puts us almost into 2026.
01:39:15 And you said at least, suggesting that it often goes further.
01:39:20 So it looks like we might miss a lease sale in 2024 and a lease sale in 2025.
01:39:27 That's how I'm gathering this answer.
01:39:31 Well, Senator, with respect, I would say that we're working diligently in the process.
01:39:35 Okay.
01:39:36 Okay, so how does your five-year offshore wind leasing schedule with 12 potential offshore wind energy lease sales comply with the law?
01:39:46 Because under existing statute, there should be a sequence,
01:39:49 and as Secretary, you cannot issue a lease for offshore wind unless there's been an oil and gas offshore lease
01:39:55 of more than 60 million acres within the preceding year.
01:40:02 Thank you.
01:40:03 Thank you, Senator.
01:40:04 We're confident that we can achieve our clean energy goals while complying with the IRA.
01:40:11 But will the lease sale for wind occur before 2026?
01:40:19 The planned OCS lease sales would meet IRA requirements if conducted and allow us to issue offshore wind leases.
01:40:27 We'll comply with the law.
01:40:28 So that means what I'm hearing that if you will not be completing,
01:40:34 even completing the necessary preliminary steps for the oil lease sale before 2026 or best the end of 2025,
01:40:42 that there will not be a wind lease sale offshore until 2026.
01:40:47 Senator, I want to assure you that we will comply with the law.
01:40:51 Yeah, I found that lawyers figure out what they want it to be, and then they work backwards.
01:40:55 And I've also found this administration has played fast and loose with the law.
01:40:59 They decide what they want to do, and they do it, and they say, sue me.
01:41:02 And so if I'm a little skeptical, this is this administration's practice.
01:41:07 So what specific lease sales are you using to allow for the four lease sales planned for 2024?
01:41:15 For example, what was the date and the acreage of those lease sales?
01:41:19 With all due respect, Senator, I can pass that to our acting deputy secretary as well.
01:41:25 Thank you, Madam Secretary.
01:41:26 And, Senator, we held a lease sale in the Gulf of Mexico in December 2023, and I don't --
01:41:32 I honestly don't recollect the acreage, I apologize, but it was over 60 million, I'm confident.
01:41:37 You're confident?
01:41:38 Will you confirm that?
01:41:39 Happy to confirm that back to you for the record, yes, sir.
01:41:41 Thank you.
01:41:42 I appreciate that.
01:41:44 On carbon sequestration, Secretary, your testimony mentions a forthcoming rulemaking by Bohm and Bessey on offshore carbon sequestration.
01:41:53 And so given Louisiana's proximity to the Gulf and our new Class VI well primacy, of course I'm interested,
01:41:59 when do you anticipate the rule to be proposed?
01:42:04 Senator, I don't have an estimate of when it will be completed, but we are working on it.
01:42:09 We recognize that it's late.
01:42:12 Creating a new regulatory program for a new technology, it's very technical and complex.
01:42:17 But just in my remaining time, ballpark, two months, six months, 12 months, 18 months?
01:42:23 I couldn't -- actually, I couldn't say.
01:42:25 But I will go back to the office and find out where they are on it,
01:42:29 and we're happy to give you a status update to your office.
01:42:32 Thank you.
01:42:34 Senator Hawley.
01:42:36 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
01:42:37 Secretary Holland, do you know the group called the Wilderness Society?
01:42:44 I've heard of it, yes.
01:42:46 And what, to your knowledge, what is this group?
01:42:50 It sounds like the name is explanatory.
01:42:53 Well, it's -- let me help you a little bit.
01:42:55 It's a left-wing environmentalist pressure group.
01:42:59 Do you know who funds them?
01:43:01 I do not.
01:43:02 Well, I can help you with that, too.
01:43:03 It's funded in large part by a foreign billionaire, Hans-Jorg Weiss,
01:43:08 who has routed his money through all manner of dark money groups, including the Arabella Network.
01:43:14 Hans-Jorg Weiss was investigated by the FEC for illegal campaign contributions
01:43:19 because he's not a United States citizen.
01:43:22 He sits on the governing council of this dark money environmentalist group.
01:43:26 Has anybody in leadership at your department met with them, the Wilderness Society?
01:43:30 Senator, I do not know this individual.
01:43:35 Has anybody in leadership at your department met with the Wilderness Society?
01:43:40 Well, I'm sure we've met with a lot of groups and organizations in the work that we do,
01:43:47 and we're discussing the environment.
01:43:49 So does that mean you don't know or you're not going to answer my question?
01:43:51 I don't have a full list of everyone that everyone has met with.
01:43:55 Well, I can help you with that as well.
01:43:59 The answer is yes, your leadership has met with the Wilderness Society.
01:44:05 They met with the Wilderness Society when that group was a plaintiff
01:44:09 suing the Department of the Interior with an adverse lawsuit against you,
01:44:13 and they met with them off the books.
01:44:16 I've got the e-mails.
01:44:18 In July of 2021, after you had come to office,
01:44:23 members of the Wilderness Society, when they're suing the department,
01:44:26 write to your top deputy and ask for a meeting and keep it off of his calendar.
01:44:32 Here it is, July 14, 2021.
01:44:34 Can we set up a meeting with these folks?
01:44:36 July 19, 2021, they propose how they might calibrate this
01:44:41 so it doesn't look like they're violating any of the rules of the court,
01:44:44 and remarkably, it stays completely off of everybody's calendars.
01:44:48 We only know about it because FOIA requests were filed.
01:44:52 And then after they have these off-the-books meetings,
01:44:57 their request is to cancel the mineral leasing rights in Minnesota
01:45:02 in the Superior National Forest.
01:45:04 This is a critical minerals mine.
01:45:07 The society wants the mine shut down.
01:45:10 After they meet off the books with your leadership, you do it.
01:45:13 A few months later, you do it.
01:45:15 You cancel the leases, and then you withdraw 225,000 acres
01:45:21 of critical mining from production and leasing shortly after that.
01:45:26 Is it common practice at your department to meet with dark money groups
01:45:32 off the books and conceal it from the public?
01:45:35 Senator, thank you for the question.
01:45:37 And, of course, I can't answer to--
01:45:40 if you're referring to our former deputy secretary,
01:45:43 he's no longer at the department.
01:45:45 Who worked for you.
01:45:46 He worked for the president.
01:45:47 He was appointed by the president.
01:45:49 He's your deputy secretary.
01:45:50 Are you the secretary of the Department of Interior?
01:45:52 I thought that's why you were here.
01:45:53 Are you the secretary?
01:45:54 Don't look at her.
01:45:55 Look at me.
01:45:56 Are you the secretary?
01:45:57 I am.
01:45:58 Do these people who are sitting here today answering most of your questions,
01:46:00 do they work for you?
01:46:01 They work with me.
01:46:02 Do they report for you?
01:46:03 You're not in charge?
01:46:04 They work with me.
01:46:05 They work with you.
01:46:06 So you're not in charge of the department.
01:46:07 Oh, my gosh.
01:46:08 I thought you were in charge.
01:46:09 I thought that's why you were here.
01:46:11 We work as a team.
01:46:12 Oh, okay.
01:46:13 So who's in charge then?
01:46:15 I provide the vision.
01:46:17 I provide the overall direction.
01:46:20 But you're not in charge.
01:46:21 Do you take responsibility for what happens at the Department of the Interior?
01:46:25 I take responsibility.
01:46:26 Do you take full responsibility for what happens at the Department of the Interior?
01:46:29 Good.
01:46:30 Then why are your leadership meeting with dark money groups and concealing it from the public?
01:46:35 Why are they doing it off the books?
01:46:36 How many times has this happened?
01:46:38 Senator, this is the first I'm hearing of this.
01:46:40 I don't -- I didn't -- my deputy secretary is no longer there.
01:46:45 And I can't answer to what he did when he was there.
01:46:50 What did they get out of it, do you suppose?
01:46:52 What do you suppose Hans-Jorg Weiss got out of you canceling the leases after they asked you to?
01:46:57 I don't know who --
01:46:58 In an off-the-books reading.
01:46:59 I don't know who this individual --
01:47:00 Oh, sure.
01:47:01 I mean, you don't know.
01:47:02 You're not in charge.
01:47:03 You're not responsible.
01:47:04 We have a corruption problem in this government, Madam Secretary.
01:47:07 And, frankly, we have a corruption problem in your department.
01:47:10 We don't.
01:47:11 We've got foreign -- we certainly do.
01:47:13 We have foreign billionaires who are funding dark money groups coming to meet with your leadership,
01:47:18 concealing it from the public, while they are filing lawsuits adverse to the department,
01:47:24 doing it without the court's knowledge, doing it, you say, without your knowledge,
01:47:28 and then getting exactly what they want.
01:47:30 Now, I don't know how much money he made off of it.
01:47:32 I'm sure it was a lot.
01:47:33 I know how he made his money.
01:47:35 He made his money by poisoning people.
01:47:38 Hans-Jorg Weiss, here's what his company did.
01:47:42 In 2009, Synthes USA, with Weiss at its head, was charged by Philadelphia's U.S. attorney
01:47:47 with running an illegal clinical trial on humans.
01:47:50 They injected them with a cement that turns to bone inside the human skeleton.
01:47:54 That's the guy who's funding this group, who's pressuring your department,
01:47:58 and you're meeting with them off the books and giving them exactly what they want.
01:48:02 I did not meet with him.
01:48:04 You're implying that I met with him.
01:48:06 I'm just trying to figure out who's in charge of the Interior Department.
01:48:09 You said it isn't you.
01:48:10 It sounds to me like it's the billionaires.
01:48:12 It sounds to me like it's the dark money billionaires
01:48:14 who are calling the shots at the Department of the Interior.
01:48:17 All I have to say to you, Madam Secretary, is that is a travesty.
01:48:21 It is a travesty.
01:48:23 The American people should be in charge, not the foreign billionaires.
01:48:26 The fact that you've let them run rampant is outrageous.
01:48:29 It's outrageous.
01:48:30 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
01:48:32 Well, thanks so much, Senator.
01:48:34 Secretary Haaland, a couple questions.
01:48:37 You've been in office for over three years now.
01:48:40 During that time, you've applauded President Biden's energy policies.
01:48:43 His policies, I believe, are going to dramatically drive up our nation's demand for cobalt,
01:48:48 for nickel, for zinc, for other critical minerals.
01:48:51 Yesterday, you testified that your department has permitted, you said, five new critical mineral mines.
01:48:58 Do you know what those mines are?
01:49:00 Can you name them for me?
01:49:02 I'm trying to ask about whether these were expansions of existing mines, modifications,
01:49:08 or actually permitting of new mines.
01:49:10 And if you need to visit with your staff, they might have the answers to that, because you testified to that yesterday.
01:49:15 I'm just trying to figure out what they were.
01:49:17 Thank you, Senator.
01:49:18 I'll start, and I can pass it to the acting deputy secretary.
01:49:22 So, yes, there were five mines producing critical minerals, such as lithium, vanadium, and barium.
01:49:28 And also, we recently took another step forward on the Rhyolite Ridge lithium mine in Nevada.
01:49:34 Laura might be able to provide more detail.
01:49:36 All right.
01:49:37 Whether there's new mines or expansions.
01:49:39 Thank you, Madam Secretary, and thank you, Senator, for the question.
01:49:42 The five are new permitted mines.
01:49:45 I honestly only know the name of one.
01:49:48 It's the vanadium mine in Nevada.
01:49:50 So we can get you the list, and we'd be happy to.
01:49:52 And the reason I ask is, Madam Secretary, you just testified to Senator Hawley about you provide the vision.
01:49:58 So what I'm concerned about is the experts are telling us that the world is going to need 400 new mines to meet the growing mineral demand for the minerals that you've just referred to.
01:50:10 So instead of trying to solve the problem, it does seem to me that the department has actually been blocking access to American minerals.
01:50:18 You've blocked access to minerals on federal lands and blocked access to minerals on state lands, some on native lands.
01:50:25 So as you're providing this vision, what's your solution?
01:50:29 And I'm just trying to see how to equate the math of the five with the 400 that are needed.
01:50:34 Thank you for that, Senator.
01:50:37 And, yes, of course, we understand that if we want to have a clean energy economy, that critical minerals are definitely a part of that in President's energy independence vision for our country.
01:50:53 I will say I apologize.
01:51:00 The point of your question again, I am so sorry.
01:51:04 But you testified yesterday there were five new mines permitted at a time when we feel the world is saying we need 400 new mines to meet what the president is trying to do.
01:51:15 Thank you. Yes.
01:51:16 One of the things that I feel very proud of that we've done, the interagency task force on mining reform, as you know, our mining law is 150 years old.
01:51:28 This is 2024.
01:51:30 New technologies have come up.
01:51:32 The interagency work group on mining reform has come out with a report.
01:51:36 We feel that the recommendations in that report will help us to be more efficient and effective when it comes to permitting mines and moving the industry forward.
01:51:45 Because the sad reality, as you know, is that if we're willing to rely on China and the Congo and Indonesia for these critical minerals, they have horrible records in terms of environmental standards, in terms of labor standards.
01:51:57 And I just find that unacceptable.
01:51:59 We need to get more permitted.
01:52:01 The other area of mutual concern to both of us is the lack of housing for employees at our National Park Service.
01:52:08 And you're going to hear that on both sides of the aisle.
01:52:10 Many of the housing units for Park Service employees don't meet modern standards.
01:52:15 Many of the living conditions are unacceptable.
01:52:18 I understand there may not be a single solution to the problem.
01:52:22 I think you need to partner with the private sector at least as much as you're partnering and relying on Congress.
01:52:29 Can you describe in terms of the vision you have in your efforts to address the lack of suitable housing for Park Staff?
01:52:35 Thank you so much for the question and for caring about where our career staff actually live.
01:52:43 So, of course, we're working on many new options.
01:52:45 The budget proposes over $100 million from different funding sources to improve employee housing in parks.
01:52:51 That includes $17 million to replace obsolete and deteriorated housing or housing to add housing capacity where affordable housing for purchase or rent is limited.
01:53:02 $2 million to continue to support private sector leasing for seasonal housing.
01:53:06 More than $60 million in 2025 LRF projects to rehabilitate or replace NPS housing in various national parks.
01:53:16 We were also successful at working with partners.
01:53:20 We're very grateful for a $40 million anonymous donation to Yellowstone National Park that will support housing construction.
01:53:29 As you know, in some of these gateway communities, it's very expensive.
01:53:33 It's where the folks who buy vacation homes can live.
01:53:37 And so we're grateful that we're putting all these sources together and appreciate you caring about it.
01:53:44 Thank you.
01:53:45 My final question is that there's a wildfire crisis, and you're hearing this from both sides of the aisle.
01:53:51 The Department has more than 50 million acres of forest that must be actively managed to prevent them from going up in smoke.
01:53:58 This can't happen without partnering with forest product sector.
01:54:03 The Wildland Fire Mitigation and Management Commission has called on the Department to support the forest products sector.
01:54:11 Sawmills, though, are closing across the West, and the threat of catastrophic wildfires continues to increase.
01:54:19 So shutting down forest management and restoration activities I think is dangerous,
01:54:23 not a viable option if we're going to get control of the wildfire crisis affecting the West.
01:54:29 Secretary Holland, what happens to the federal forests when they lose a local sawmill?
01:54:34 And would you agree that the Department needs to try to retain its existing private sector partners in the timber industry?
01:54:41 Senator, thank you for the question, and I recognize that this is an issue.
01:54:48 It's also an issue for tribes.
01:54:50 We visited a tribal community in Wisconsin who has a sawmill and actively works to manage their forests.
01:54:58 We appreciate the reports that were developed in a unified fashion.
01:55:07 I will take your suggestions forward to the Department, and we recognize that this is all important.
01:55:15 Fuels management is also an issue for these wildland fires, and our budget reflects the commitment to that as well.
01:55:24 Thank you, Madam Secretary.
01:55:25 Thank you again for being here, joining us this morning.
01:55:28 Members, we'll have to the close of business tomorrow to submit additional questions.
01:55:31 For the record, the committee stands adjourned.
01:55:34 [Gavel]
01:55:35 [BLANK_AUDIO]

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