On Wednesday, Rep. Lisa McClain (R-MI) questioned Acting Labor Secretary Julie Su during a House Education and Workforce Committee hearing.
Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:
https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript
Stay Connected
Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes
Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes
Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes
More From Forbes: http://forbes.com
Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:
https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript
Stay Connected
Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes
Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes
Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes
More From Forbes: http://forbes.com
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00 The representative from Michigan, Ms. McCoy, is recognized for five minutes.
00:04 Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you for being here today.
00:07 I want to talk about the independent contractor rule.
00:12 What is the goal of that rule or that piece of legislation?
00:17 So thank you for that question.
00:19 I'm sorry.
00:20 I said thank you for the question.
00:22 The goal of the rule is under the Fair Labor Standards Act, employees are entitled to a
00:30 host of protections, minimum wage, overtime, and others.
00:36 The definition of who is an employee is important because independent contractors don't have
00:45 those protections and employees do.
00:48 So what we were doing with the rule --
00:50 But isn't that the choice of the employee?
00:54 So I'm still going back to, very simply put, what is the goal of the independent contractor
01:00 rule?
01:01 The goal of the rule was to restore decades' worth of interpretation about who is an independent
01:09 contractor and who is an employee.
01:10 And you think you're best suited to make that definition?
01:13 Well let me say, Congresswoman, I didn't make up the test.
01:17 When I say it comes from decades of case law -- And I'm still confused on what the goal
01:20 of the rule is.
01:22 It was to -- Where's the problem?
01:24 Seems to me like we're trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.
01:28 Well, Congresswoman, misclassification is a real problem.
01:33 Misclassification refers to -- What is the problem?
01:36 What is the problem?
01:37 Because people have a choice.
01:39 Am I not mistaken?
01:40 I mean, here's an example.
01:42 I'm not looking for an example.
01:44 I'm looking for an answer.
01:45 There's a problem if you are hired to do a job in which you should have all the protections
01:53 of employee status -- Then go and don't be an independent contractor.
01:57 Choose an employer.
02:00 You can either be a 1099 or you can be a W-2.
02:03 That's your choice, right?
02:04 If I don't want to be an independent contractor, is there a law out there that says I can only
02:11 be an independent contractor?
02:13 The answer to that, because I know you're going to give a 20-minute dissertation, is
02:17 no.
02:18 So let me ask you this.
02:19 Have you ever been a business owner?
02:20 I'll be brief about this.
02:21 I will just say that for the many workers who have come to us and said, "I wasn't paid
02:26 what I should have been paid," and I was called an independent contractor --
02:29 But the confusion -- Stop.
02:31 You're mixing apples and oranges.
02:33 So I go and I'm an independent contractor.
02:37 I know I'm an independent contractor.
02:40 And then what's the problem?
02:43 I mean, you know what you're doing.
02:45 You're either an independent contractor or you're not.
02:48 So what my biggest concern is, you haven't even been able to clearly articulate what
02:53 the goal of that rule is.
02:57 I mean, we talk in circles.
03:00 Do you believe in capitalism?
03:02 Yes.
03:03 Wonderful.
03:04 Have you ever owned a business?
03:08 I've said this before, and I'm sure I'm going to get cut off saying it now, but I'm the
03:12 daughter of small business owners who had small businesses when I was growing up.
03:16 So my parents had a laundromat.
03:17 This should be really easy for you.
03:19 Let's try this again.
03:20 Let's try this again.
03:21 Listen carefully.
03:22 If you need to write a note down, that's fine.
03:24 Have you -- It is kind of comical when you're supposed to be the acting secretary and you
03:30 can't answer a question.
03:31 So I'm with you on the comedy.
03:33 Unfortunately, it's not that comical because it's real life.
03:37 So let's try it again.
03:39 Have you -- not the daughter, not the mother, not the sister, not the aunt -- have you ever
03:46 owned a business?
03:50 Congresswoman, you asked me why the rule was important.
03:53 Have you -- Okay.
03:54 Let's try this again.
03:55 So you're making a ton of money.
03:57 You're trying to -- You're making legislation for business owners.
04:01 You're supposed to be in charge as the acting person, yet you can't answer a simple question.
04:08 Amazing to me.
04:09 Maybe we should just pay you more money and that would help you answer the question.
04:13 I'm going to go back to the question again.
04:15 Have you ever owned a business?
04:20 Not a trick question.
04:22 Congresswoman, there are working people in this country -- Yes.
04:27 -- who do not choose to be independent contractors -- I mean, this is the very reason why you
04:30 can't get confirmed is because you can't answer a question.
04:35 Right?
04:36 I'll even accept an I don't know.
04:39 Have you ever owned a business?
04:43 And yes, I'm Congresswoman.
04:45 So have you ever owned a business?
04:49 Working people in this country are entitled to basic protections under the federal law.
04:56 It is our job -- So is that yes, you have owned a business,
05:00 or no, that's not?
05:02 I mean, you are brilliant at answering a question that I didn't ask.
05:07 And this is the very reason why you can't get confirmed in the Senate.
05:12 Because nobody trusts you.
05:14 Because you can't answer a simple question.
05:17 If you're supposed to be in charge, I would think it's not too much to ask to be able
05:24 to answer a question.
05:25 And with that, my disappointment continues to grow, and your smugness continues to be
05:32 very unacceptable.
05:34 But you continue being acting secretary, making policies of which you know nothing about.
05:38 And with that, I yield back.