Veteran actor Makarand Deshpande reflects on his cinematic journey, discussing Aamir Khan's simplicity and Shahrukh Khan's charisma in an exclusive Lehren Retro interview. From Monkey Man to Razakar, he shares insights into Indian cinema's evolution.
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00:00 If the people who were oppressing the government had to stop it,
00:04 what would have happened if Sardar Patel hadn't taken this decision?
00:07 And if Sinha hadn't sent him?
00:08 And if he hadn't taken the decision forcefully, what would have happened?
00:12 Propaganda is about whether you want to make a film or something else.
00:16 People are thinking that people are making films so that you get vote bank.
00:23 No one is taking votes by investing 50 crores.
00:25 50 crores is a lot of money.
00:27 I think it's better to give money than that, so that you get votes.
00:30 Web has come, people thought that OTT platform has come.
00:33 This is not censorship.
00:34 Come on, you can abuse.
00:35 Come on, you can take off your clothes.
00:37 Shah Rukh has made so many films, but still, he has made three in a year.
00:41 Amir gives his entire time from subject selection.
00:46 He makes amazing films.
00:48 I had offered a film, 'Whisper'.
00:52 I told the director, "Are you mad? How will you sell a film with me?"
00:57 Hello, I am Rehan Hussain and you are watching Lehren.
01:04 At this time, to talk to us, famous theatre artist and film actor, Makrand Deshpande is present.
01:11 His film is coming, which is called 'Rasakar'.
01:15 We will talk about this and at the same time, we will talk to Deshpande about some other films.
01:21 So, let's start this conversation.
01:23 Welcome to the first Lehren.
01:26 What would you say about this film?
01:29 I think this film is a very important part of Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel's life.
01:35 It has not been portrayed.
01:40 If India had been freed, but Hyderabad had not been ready,
01:49 and the Razaqar were committing atrocities,
01:54 if it had to be stopped,
01:57 what would have happened if Sardar Patel had not taken this decision and not sent the army?
02:03 And if he had not taken the force from him, what would have happened?
02:07 It is a different story.
02:08 I think the reason behind making this film is very important.
02:22 When we went to see the statue of unity of Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel with the Razaqar team,
02:31 we saw the towering statue and realized that the work they have done in the free country we are in,
02:43 their contribution is huge.
02:49 And Hyderabad is a very important part of that.
02:54 So, we made this film to tell that.
02:56 You have been in this industry for four decades.
02:59 When you get an offer for a role, what is the reaction?
03:04 You have had so many experiences, you have played so many roles of different shades.
03:10 When you got an offer for this role for Razaqar,
03:13 what was the reaction?
03:16 What was the excitement you had about this role?
03:20 It was very shocking.
03:22 It was surprising that you are a Maharashtrian actor.
03:30 And it is being said that, especially my first film, Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak,
03:37 when Nasir Hussain directed it, his son Mansoor Khan directed it,
03:41 but Nasir's 'yes' was important.
03:46 When I went to meet him, he said, "You are Makrand Deshpande,
03:50 will you speak Hindi? Will you speak Urdu?"
03:53 I said, "No language barrier for an actor."
03:58 So, when I asked him about Nizam's character,
04:03 I felt that we have succeeded in asking a Maharashtrian artist
04:11 about Nizam's character.
04:16 Secondly, he is the richest man in the world,
04:22 born in 1937.
04:25 You are getting a chance to work with him.
04:33 But with him, his complexity of character,
04:38 of a well-educated man, cruel, what he had to do for religion,
04:46 what he had to make a country,
04:50 so the complexity of a poet and how cruel he can be,
05:00 it was more challenging for me to realize that.
05:05 The film 'Razakar' was made from the point of view of the atrocities
05:11 that Razakar committed.
05:14 When it was found that Mountbatten was not ready to declare Hyderabad
05:21 as an independent state,
05:24 then Mukassim Rizvi, who is the leader of the Razakar army,
05:30 who is the central figure of the film,
05:36 he takes Nizam in his words
05:45 and makes it an Islamic country, Turkistan,
05:50 and establishes it.
05:53 And he becomes a part of it.
05:57 Sir, as you said, what was your reaction to the offer of this role?
06:02 Because the character was quite different.
06:04 How much preparation did you do, especially to play Nizam?
06:08 Body language, how did you prepare?
06:12 I thought I should work on body language only.
06:15 Because if you become Nizam from the body,
06:19 Nizam was a thin man,
06:25 and he looked weak.
06:28 The age group that was shown,
06:31 he was shorter than Singhasan.
06:36 He was 5 feet 3 inches tall,
06:38 had a lot of wealth,
06:41 and was also the most miserly man.
06:44 So how can I show him in small things without dialogue?
06:49 That was my effort.
06:51 He smoked a cigarette without a filter.
06:57 Smoking a cigarette was a bitter experience.
07:02 How can he be a man?
07:09 I wanted to show the character in his eyes.
07:16 That was my job.
07:19 And if you have feelings for the camera,
07:23 you can look at the camera.
07:26 So that was my effort.
07:28 In the film, there are a lot of violent scenes.
07:32 It is said that you have been tortured.
07:35 Did you face any difficulties while shooting?
07:39 Actually, I was not in those scenes.
07:42 Where there was violence, I had to stop the scenes many times
07:47 because I did not get permission.
07:50 The state government was not allowing me.
07:54 They did not get the real spaces,
08:00 like the palace, because they were making this film.
08:05 So there were a lot of difficulties.
08:08 When the shooting was stopped,
08:13 there were many cases.
08:19 The producer was threatened with death.
08:26 Many people say that the film should not be made.
08:30 There is a campaign on social media
08:34 to promote propaganda films.
08:38 Like Kashmir Files, Kerala Story, Buster, The Naxal Story.
08:42 These are the films that are based on true events.
08:47 So what do you say about the word propaganda?
08:54 What do you think about the word propaganda?
08:58 If you try to understand it,
09:05 propaganda is about your intention to make a film.
09:10 People are making films to get votes.
09:18 But I don't think anyone is voting for this film with 50 crores.
09:24 50 crores is a lot of money.
09:28 I think it would be better to give money to get votes.
09:32 The reason for this is different.
09:35 The producer's story of the Razaakar
09:40 is based on history.
09:45 He knows the history.
09:48 So will you call it propaganda or not?
09:51 The producer knows the truth.
09:56 But as far as actors are concerned,
09:59 we worked on this film like a film.
10:02 We used the material we got.
10:05 People are confused about what to do.
10:11 Some people are using it for political mileage.
10:15 If you go against it, you will lose your job.
10:19 Let's say a film is propaganda.
10:22 But if you are using it for your party,
10:27 then it's the same on both sides.
10:31 If someone says that political realism is fun,
10:35 and it's shown wrongly in the film,
10:38 I think it should be seen from both sides.
10:42 Is this film targeting a particular religion?
10:47 Like the previous films, is this film also targeting that?
10:52 After watching the second half,
10:55 you won't say anything like this.
10:58 You won't say anything.
11:01 In the first half, you may feel like it's a show of violence.
11:05 But as you reach the second half,
11:08 you will gradually understand that
11:11 it's about those who are being treated badly.
11:14 I sometimes think that the British made Gandhi.
11:19 They produced him. Who was the one who tortured him?
11:23 The British.
11:24 But they produced him.
11:26 This means that they were interested in the film.
11:29 Not that we are showing our history wrongly.
11:34 So I think it should be a little objective.
11:38 If it's objective, then the question is where you will be looking at this.
11:46 Your film 'Monkey Mind' has been released.
11:49 It's getting a very good response.
11:52 There are many things being discussed about the release in India.
11:55 Some people are saying that the censor board doesn't want the release.
11:59 Because there are some things in it that the public here won't accept.
12:04 So what do you say about this new controversy?
12:08 I think there's been a lot of controversy about whether the censor board is equal or not.
12:13 What should the censor board do or not do.
12:16 I think the censor board only looks at it so that the peace doesn't get removed.
12:23 I think that's a big job.
12:25 A film is a film in its own right.
12:27 If there are going to be fights because of it,
12:30 I think it can be avoided.
12:32 I'm completely with it.
12:34 But there's one thing.
12:36 A film doesn't bring peace.
12:40 If someone wants to take political mileage from it,
12:43 then like a film, I don't think anyone should be afraid of a film.
12:48 A film is a film.
12:49 Watch it.
12:50 You can say that it's rubbish.
12:53 So as an artist, if a film doesn't get released in India,
12:58 what will be the reaction of the public?
13:04 I believe that every project has its own destiny.
13:10 Right?
13:12 Like a person's birthplace is different, his karma is different.
13:17 I think the same is true for a film.
13:19 A film doesn't go where it's made.
13:22 It goes somewhere else.
13:24 It will go wherever it goes.
13:26 I think so.
13:28 Like Jay Ho Gaana, it was for Subhash Ghai.
13:31 He didn't take it.
13:32 It was a slumdog.
13:34 He took it and won an Oscar.
13:36 I think the one who is destined should be seen that way.
13:40 If you believe in the art of life,
13:43 then why is his destiny different?
13:46 What would you say about Deo Patel, the director of Monkey Man?
13:51 It's amazing.
13:52 He doesn't get tired.
13:54 And he doesn't get happy either.
13:56 Even after the film became a hit, he says that he got 60% sound.
14:00 I didn't get 40% time.
14:02 I mean, that man is so relentlessly,
14:06 without getting tired, without being happy,
14:10 he wants to do good.
14:12 So I think he is a man who wants to make it better and better.
14:18 And he doesn't feel shy to say bad things.
14:22 He says that he did a lot of bad things.
14:25 It's terrible what I did.
14:27 So I think the man who can criticize himself,
14:30 he can do something good.
14:31 Before this, there was Triple Aal,
14:33 in which you were also there,
14:35 you were a part of that team.
14:37 So when such films are honored internationally,
14:42 how does it feel as an actor?
14:44 It feels very good that you are a part of something.
14:47 I remember, Mahesh Bhatt's brother, Mukesh Bhatt,
14:52 he always used to say that he is a good luck man,
14:54 he is my lucky mascot.
14:56 So it feels good that you are a part of a film
14:58 and that film works.
15:00 Because how much money does it take to make a film?
15:05 How much hard work does it take?
15:07 And that film is successful.
15:10 It's released now, let's say it's political propaganda,
15:14 what is it, that is it, it's history.
15:16 You will see how much hard work is involved in making a film.
15:19 How much hard work is involved by people.
15:21 At least it should be released and then people can decide.
15:24 So much money is involved.
15:27 I don't think anyone has invested 50 crores for the election.
15:32 And if they have invested, then it's good.
15:34 I think he doesn't know how to behave. 50 crores.
15:38 Earlier, entertainment was a limited resource.
15:41 There was a cinema house, then came TV, now OTT.
15:45 So these different platforms that are coming out,
15:48 there is a lot of content on OTT these days,
15:50 films are also being released, web series are also being released season by season.
15:54 So how do you see OTT, which is a new platform that has come out,
15:59 especially after COVID.
16:01 It's amazing, I think that there are some subjects on which there can be no flow.
16:06 Because there is no limit to flow, so it keeps going for a long time.
16:10 There are some subjects on which films are made, some are short films.
16:14 But there are some, whose long or short episodes can make a long season.
16:19 So that's why the web format is good.
16:26 I think. And the actor also enjoys that he gets a graph.
16:32 In a way, it is limited that he has given a year or whatever 6 months he has given.
16:38 Although there are some good things on OTT, good series have come,
16:44 but questions arise about the content, that there is a lot of abuse,
16:47 insolence is being presented.
16:49 I think this is very typical that when you go to college from school,
16:54 the uniform is removed, then you start wearing all kinds of clothes.
16:57 Similarly, when the web came suddenly, people thought that the OTT platform has come,
17:03 people said that there is no censorship, come on, you abuse, come on, you remove your clothes.
17:08 You have forgotten that it is necessary.
17:11 Yes, some stories that you were not able to make, now you are able to make them,
17:16 that you are able to show more bloodshed.
17:19 That I have to show some blood, or I have to show some serial killer,
17:26 or I have to show the real abuse on a family or a girl,
17:36 so that people are affected, that the case is not made properly.
17:41 All this is fine, that a hard-hitting film is made, that's why you do it.
17:46 But because there is no censorship here, now we can show this.
17:51 What is made for this, I feel wrong there.
17:54 If we talk about your initial career, the initial phase,
17:58 you started Aamir Khan's film 'Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak'
18:02 and after that you were also associated with Shahrukh Khan's 'Sarkas'.
18:06 So how do you see yourself in this phase so far?
18:10 What have you gained and lost in these four decades of your journey?
18:16 If you analyze it.
18:17 I think I have joined life and art, I think there is an overlap, I have found that.
18:26 And now it is not two, it is one.
18:29 So now I don't feel like I am acting, it is a different life.
18:33 And when I don't act, it is a different life.
18:38 So from the beginning, your interest was in acting or in art itself?
18:42 As you said, you were a very good cricket player.
18:45 Yes, I was a sports person. I used to play any sport.
18:49 And this was made by accident.
18:52 And I always felt that I kept making everything by accident.
18:55 I kept becoming a writer by accident, a director, a producer.
18:59 And I still don't consider myself to be a colourist or anything.
19:04 I feel I am living. And that's it. That's the only truth.
19:09 You started as an actor, then became a director, then a producer.
19:13 So what is the difference in these three roles?
19:16 How many challenges do you face as an actor, as a director or as a producer?
19:20 What are the challenges? Do you have more responsibilities?
19:23 Or does the focus change?
19:25 I feel that a writer is actually the most important person who can write.
19:32 After that comes a producer who finds the director.
19:39 And after that come the actors and the rest of the head of the department.
19:46 So I am the first writer. Whenever I do my work.
19:52 But if I go somewhere as an actor, I don't give any suggestion to anyone.
19:57 That this scene should be written like this. Or make it like this.
20:01 No, I can say that I am doing this. If you like it, then tell me.
20:06 So there I am absent as a director. I am present as an actor.
20:11 And the job of an actor is to be mindful so that you listen to what the other person is saying.
20:16 And after listening, he does. Absolutely.
20:20 And when I direct, I completely forget that I am myself as an actor.
20:26 So I definitely understand the actors more.
20:29 I know what the actor needs. So how to keep the actor happy.
20:36 I definitely do that.
20:38 So there are different roles. And I feel as an actor, as we play our own roles.
20:44 I feel that you will have to play all your roles.
20:48 In your decades, you have worked in Tamil, Malayalam, Telugu, Hindi, English, Marathi, in many languages.
20:57 So while working in all these languages, how much preparation or preparation do you have to do?
21:03 I didn't do that much. I am definitely upset that I didn't learn any language.
21:08 But yes, I learned as much as necessary for that scene.
21:14 I did as much as I could at that time. Because I feel it is humanly a little bit not possible
21:19 that I learn so many languages and then act. And then it becomes a burden.
21:27 Then it feels like a person gets tired. That's why I thought, do acting.
21:34 Language is just a tool or a means by which you are conveying this emotion to people.
21:43 So I prepare for that only. But I do feel sometimes that I can dub myself so that my voice remains.
21:55 When our voice is not there in South Indian films, then it is a little sad, it is painful.
22:00 We should have our own voice.
22:02 If we talk about stardom or superstars in Bollywood, especially Shahrukh Khan or Aamir Khan,
22:08 you have been associated with them since the initial stage.
22:13 So how many changes do you see in these artists?
22:16 Like Shahrukh Khan returned last year through Jawaan, Pathan and Dunkie.
22:21 Aamir Khan is also busy returning.
22:24 So this is a period of change and artists again prove to themselves that no, my time has not gone yet.
22:33 So how do you define this period, the different periods that pass?
22:37 I think that this tells their wisdom that how wise they are, that they have not lost.
22:42 Shahrukh has not made so many films, but still in a year he made three.
22:47 It's amazing, that man's tenacity. Aamir also, I don't think any film has flopped,
22:53 but his Lal Singh Chadha was a very good film. And what was that, see he had produced Lapata Ladies.
23:03 So it's an amazing film. So I feel that Aamir is not wrong.
23:08 It has been seen for a long time, I mean, the filmography that has been seen in it.
23:12 Both, whom I met earlier when they were not stars, I saw their growth is very good.
23:22 Aamir gives his whole time from subject selection.
23:27 So his film, his unique way of telling the story, he has understood it.
23:37 He makes very good films. I mean, with his director.
23:43 I think Shahrukh, I think his stardom, aura is something different.
23:50 So how impressed were you with Shahrukh Khan that you made a film with him, a title?
23:56 Very much. I think he has a lot of impact as a person.
24:00 If you meet him, you take his impact home.
24:05 Aamir's simplicity and Aamir's simplicity, you will take it home.
24:13 Shahrukh has an aura, he will not leave you.
24:22 So both are very much in their place. And you will see that in Jawan.
24:29 I liked Jawan more. Although Pathan was also his hit.
24:34 But in Jawan, the one who plays his age, he felt good.
24:40 More than his age. But yes, I think they have done a lot of work.
24:51 They have not just started.
24:53 When it comes to comparison, South cinema and Bollywood, or if Marathi cinema is also compared,
24:59 then if we talk about Marathi cinema, then whether the recent release of Ritesh Deshmukh's Veda,
25:05 or before that Sairat came, or before that a film called Swans came.
25:09 So all these films were also appreciated.
25:11 But in recent days, whether it is Bollywood or Marathi cinema,
25:15 such content is not coming out.
25:18 Whereas in the South, we are seeing more than one film.
25:21 So this creation is coming out in the South, people are liking the films there.
25:28 Even Kantara came, so suddenly it was a blast, it came in the eyes of people.
25:32 Whether it is Tripalar or Pushpa, the film that came, and now Pushpa 2 is also coming.
25:38 So how do you see this?
25:40 I think they are making their own films, which are of their own soil, which people understand.
25:44 They are making the same cinema as they make.
25:48 It is possible that they are getting better technically, but their cinema is the same.
25:53 In our Marathi films, they are making films like South, that is wrong.
25:59 In Marathi films, there will be Marathi ethos, like why is the audience of drama now?
26:04 Because Marathi drama is still like Marathi drama.
26:07 If your Marathi films have Marathi ethos,
26:10 then the films that you are talking about, like Ved, Sairat, or Laibhari,
26:14 those are Marathi films.
26:16 The drama of Bollywood can be mainstream, but the Marathi film should be there.
26:23 When your film is Marathi, it will be a hit.
26:26 The Marathi audience should feel that, yes, I understand, this is my film.
26:31 Although their problem is that they don't get theatres, that is a problem.
26:38 Competition is not only from Bollywood, but from Hollywood too.
26:41 So that is a problem, definitely.
26:44 But to make an observation, I can say that Marathi films
26:49 should have the feeling of being Marathi.
26:54 For the audience. Otherwise, you can make this film as you like.
26:58 That is not a problem.
27:00 But if you say that my film should be popular, people should watch it in the mainstream,
27:05 then you have to be careful. That is all I can say.
27:08 Sir, in your career, the small roles you have played,
27:12 they were very impactful.
27:14 Like if we talk about Sarfaroj, or other films,
27:18 like Satya, or the films you have done of Ram Gopal Verma,
27:22 but have you ever been offered a lead role?
27:26 As a hero, or have you ever been offered such roles?
27:30 I was offered a film, Whisper, long ago.
27:34 I told the director, "Are you mad? How will you sell a film with me?"
27:39 He said, "Sir, why are you thinking this?" I said, "Yes, don't do this."
27:45 Then he forced me to make it. He said, "Give me the money."
27:48 Then he suffered a loss. I said, "Now it can be made."
27:52 I am talking about 30 years ago.
27:54 I think if you want to make it now, then it can be made now.
27:59 Now, the time has come. Like in Marathi, I have already done a film in Central Lead.
28:07 So, it will be released. We will know then.
28:11 So, the roles that are being offered to you,
28:14 do you have any Bollywood project that will be able to see the fans in the coming days?
28:21 There is a web show that is very good, which I am waiting for. It is complete.
28:26 It is produced by Ekta Kapoor. It is a very good director.
28:31 He has invested a lot of money in it. It is a very good film.
28:34 So, I am waiting for it. It is called Dhanbad.
28:38 We will tell you more about it later. But it is good. I am waiting for that.
28:42 And Monkey Man. I am waiting for that.
28:45 Marathi or South?
28:46 It is in Marathi, but I cannot say it right now.
28:49 Because they have not announced it, so I do not want to tell you.
28:53 There are three films that will be released in Marathi.
28:56 Three films will be released in the next two months.
28:59 Now, what else do you want?
29:02 Three or four South films are ready.
29:05 They will also come.
29:07 If we talk about an artist,
29:10 the relationships in Bollywood have become very temporary.
29:15 They break and keep on joining.
29:19 Like films are released every Friday.
29:21 They flop and become a success.
29:23 If we talk about relationships,
29:25 the relationships in Bollywood are breaking and are falling apart.
29:28 Do you think that people are not giving each other time?
29:33 Do you think that is the reason?
29:35 I do not think that relationships have anything to do with Bollywood.
29:38 People have to be in touch with themselves.
29:41 Some people live with themselves. They are happy with themselves.
29:45 Some people are happy together.
29:47 Success and failure will be in every film.
29:50 I do not think that it has increased today.
29:52 It has always been like this.
29:54 Films used to hit and flop.
29:57 That is something new.
29:59 I think that we can say that
30:04 we have more access to everything.
30:10 Everything is access now.
30:12 We are rooted in that.
30:16 We are moving a little above the ground.
30:20 We are falling apart in that.
30:22 If you want to answer a personal question,
30:25 you are so romantic in your personal life.
30:28 Because there is a lack of time.
30:30 So, it is very difficult to balance the family in today's time.
30:35 So, tell us something about your family.
30:38 My family is my theatre group.
30:41 I am alone.
30:43 I have my villa.
30:45 I have my pen.
30:48 My theatre group is my family.
30:53 What message would you like to give to the fans?
30:56 I would say that if you can watch films in the theatre hall,
31:00 in the cinema hall, it is a good thing.
31:02 Especially, Raza Kaar.
31:03 Because it will cost a lot of money.
31:05 Tell us how you liked the film.
31:08 Do not discuss it.
31:11 Do not say that it is propaganda.
31:15 You are a film, so you should watch it.
31:17 We have worked hard.
31:19 You should watch it.
31:20 How do you like it?
31:21 Watch it.
31:22 Thank you very much for talking to us.
31:25 He is the famous theatre artist and film director,
31:28 Makrand Deshpande, who was talking to us.
31:30 Namaskar.
31:31 Thank you.
31:32 (upbeat music)
31:35 you