Secretary of State Antony Blinken speaks at the World Economic Forum in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
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NewsTranscript
00:00 - Good afternoon, your highnesses, excellencies,
00:04 ladies and gentlemen, a warm welcome to Secretary Blinken.
00:12 - Thank you.
00:13 - Coming to this special meeting.
00:16 We know that you've been traveling the world,
00:21 also the last week, been in China.
00:24 I at least read in the media that you're heading
00:29 to Israel tomorrow, and what a complicated world.
00:33 We have had this summit now for two days,
00:38 and I think the conclusion has been that the global economy
00:42 is doing a lot better than expected,
00:45 especially the US economy, but geopolitically,
00:50 we are in a kind of a recession.
00:53 And your, also, has a big task in maneuvering this
00:58 and we know that decisions we're making now
01:02 will also have consequences for many years to come.
01:06 We are kind of between world orders.
01:09 We had one world order, and we don't know really
01:13 what the next one is, and I think everyone,
01:16 before we go into the more original situations,
01:20 would like to hear your aspirations for the world.
01:26 What kind of world order does the Biden administration
01:29 and you personally aspire for, Secretary?
01:32 - Jorge, thanks very much.
01:33 It's great to be with you, great to be with
01:35 so many colleagues here.
01:37 Wonderful as well to have the full world economic
01:41 forum experience, having been in Davos,
01:43 and now having been here, so couldn't be better.
01:47 And you're right that this is a moment
01:50 of particular challenge.
01:53 It's a moment of challenge because in many ways,
01:55 as President Biden likes to say,
01:58 we're at an inflection point.
02:00 There are fundamental changes taking place
02:02 in terms of geopolitical competition,
02:05 but also global challenges that no country
02:10 can effectively address alone,
02:11 where the decisions that we make in these moments
02:16 are likely to have repercussions,
02:17 not just for the next few years, but for decades to come.
02:21 That's what he means, that's what we mean
02:23 by an inflection point.
02:25 So for us, the starting point in dealing with this
02:29 effectively is to make sure that we're well organized.
02:33 And what do we mean by that?
02:36 For President Biden, for the United States in this moment,
02:40 and over the last three years,
02:43 we started with a proposition that, again,
02:46 we can't effectively do and meet these challenges alone
02:52 as large and as powerful as the United States is.
02:55 And so he's put a premium on revitalizing,
02:58 reimagining, reinvigorating alliances,
03:01 partnerships around the world and every corner,
03:06 and making sure that we were working together
03:09 with different groupings of countries
03:11 that were fit for particular purposes.
03:14 And so you see it in everything we've done
03:16 to strengthen existing alliances and partnerships.
03:20 You've seen it in everything we've done,
03:22 also to reimagine some new ones,
03:24 to bring countries together in common purpose.
03:26 We have a global coalition now to deal with
03:29 synthetic opioids that are afflicting so many countries,
03:32 coalitions of countries to work on infrastructure investment
03:35 on global health, as well as on these big
03:38 geopolitical challenges.
03:40 And I think that organization, that foundation,
03:44 has actually helped us do well and do effectively
03:49 in meeting some of these big problems, big challenges.
03:53 Two quick examples.
03:54 On Ukraine, we were able to bring so many countries together
03:59 not just in Europe but beyond because countries recognized
04:02 that there was an aggression not only against Ukraine
04:05 but against some of the foundational principles
04:07 of the international system.
04:09 And if we let that challenge go with impunity,
04:12 then it was likely that would-be aggressors everywhere
04:15 would take note and we would have a world of more conflict,
04:18 but not less conflict.
04:19 And having brought many countries together effectively,
04:23 we helped the incredibly courageous Ukrainians
04:26 repel the aggression.
04:27 Now, it's an ongoing effort, an ongoing struggle,
04:30 but the designs that Vladimir Putin had on Ukraine
04:33 to begin with, to erase it from the map,
04:35 to subsume it into Russia so that it no longer existed,
04:38 that's failed.
04:39 And we also have an alliance in Europe that's stronger,
04:43 that's also larger than it was,
04:46 and I think a plan to enable Ukraine to be a success
04:50 over time, a strong country militarily,
04:54 economically, democratically.
04:56 In Asia, we have the most consequential
05:00 and in many ways complicated relationship with China.
05:04 It can't be defined in a bumper sticker,
05:06 but we've approached it from a position of strength.
05:09 The aspects where we're competitive,
05:12 the aspects where we're cooperative,
05:13 the aspects where we're contesting.
05:15 And that strength has to do with the fact
05:18 that there's now greater convergence
05:20 than at any time I can remember between us,
05:23 key partners in Europe, key partners in Asia,
05:26 and in other places on approaching
05:28 some of the challenges posed by China.
05:30 I just came back, as you noted, from there,
05:32 and I think that's very much something
05:34 that they see and understand.
05:37 And of course, in this moment,
05:39 we have arguably the worst crisis in the Middle East
05:43 since 1948.
05:45 And we're addressing it, working on it,
05:48 together with partners throughout the region,
05:52 trying to bring the conflict in Gaza to an end,
05:55 trying to ensure that it doesn't spread.
05:57 And all of that is a collective effort.
06:00 So I guess I'd sum it up by saying that,
06:03 on the one hand, it's really two sides of the same coin.
06:06 One is that we're determined,
06:09 and I keep hearing this everywhere I go,
06:13 that countries continue to look to the United States
06:15 to be engaged and to lead.
06:18 And I think there's a recognition
06:19 that in the absence of that engagement,
06:21 in the absence of that leadership,
06:23 then one of two things happens.
06:25 Either someone else is doing it,
06:28 maybe not in the most positive ways,
06:30 or maybe worse, no one is doing it.
06:33 And then you have a vacuum that's filled by bad things
06:34 before it's filled with good things.
06:36 But the other side of the coin is that, as I said,
06:41 more than at any time since I've been involved
06:43 in these issues, which goes back 30 years now,
06:45 more than 30 years, we have to find
06:48 cooperative, collaborative responses,
06:51 because none of us have the ability
06:54 to effectively deal with these challenges alone.
06:57 So we put a premium on that more than anything else.
07:01 And again, I think you can see the results
07:03 in the areas that I just mentioned.
07:05 - Thank you, Secretary.
07:07 Let's start with the latter, the region,
07:10 and the ongoing humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza.
07:14 During the two last days, it's been said
07:19 from many speakers that there will never be
07:21 a two-state solution without U.S. taking leadership.
07:25 But we also know that Egypt now presented
07:30 a ceasefire and release of hostages deal to Israel.
07:37 We've learned that it's now with Hamas,
07:40 and they will have to decide maybe
07:44 what you think are the prospects.
07:48 I guess if Hamas then doesn't accept this,
07:52 I think Netanyahu has said that then he will go
07:56 full-fledged into Rafah.
07:58 So your visit, I guess, to Israel tomorrow
08:02 will be very important, because I think
08:05 there is a big fear in the region
08:08 that's for a further escalation.
08:11 - Well, I think there's a lot to be said
08:14 about this, of course, but to try to put it in a nutshell,
08:18 a few things are important.
08:19 One, we strongly support Israel in its effort
08:23 to ensure that what happened on October 7th
08:27 never happens again.
08:29 But at the same time, we are determined
08:32 to do everything we can to bring an end
08:34 to the terrible human suffering that we're seeing
08:36 every single day in Gaza among children, women, men,
08:40 who've been caught in a terrible crossfire
08:44 of Hamas's making.
08:46 And so maximizing protection of civilians,
08:49 maximizing the support that gets to them,
08:51 this is very much our focus.
08:54 Now, the quickest way to bring this to an end
08:58 is to get to a ceasefire and the release of hostages.
09:02 And as you said, there's been an extraordinary effort
09:05 that's been made, and I really want to thank profoundly
09:09 our friends from Qatar and Egypt,
09:12 who've been playing an instrumental role
09:14 in trying to get this ceasefire and release of hostages.
09:18 A major effort that's been made
09:20 over the last couple of months to get to that ceasefire,
09:23 to get the hostages out.
09:24 And right now, as you said, Hamas has before it
09:28 a proposal that is extraordinarily
09:31 generous on the part of Israel.
09:34 And in this moment, the only thing standing
09:39 between the people of Gaza and a ceasefire is Hamas.
09:43 They have to decide, and they have to decide quickly.
09:47 So we're looking to that, and I'm hopeful
09:50 that they will make the right decision,
09:54 and we can have a fundamental change in the dynamic.
09:58 - But let's say that Hamas turns it down.
10:02 You will still recommend Prime Minister Netanyahu
10:06 tomorrow not to go ahead with that attack on Rafa?
10:10 - We've said clearly and for some time now on Rafa
10:15 that in the absence of a plan to ensure
10:19 that civilians will not be harmed,
10:25 we can't support a major military operation in Rafa.
10:29 And we have not yet seen a plan that gives us confidence
10:32 that civilians can be effectively protected.
10:36 - But if there is an agreement,
10:39 ceasefire release of some hostages,
10:42 there will then need to be a plan for the way forward.
10:47 And the destructions in Gaza is like a war zone now.
10:54 But will there be any appetite from any donor
10:58 to support a rebuilding without a political plan?
11:02 Because it was rebuilt 10 years ago after the last war
11:06 and invested billions.
11:08 I guess there is also no donors today
11:11 that want to do this again without a political path.
11:16 And do you think there can be a political path?
11:19 And with Hamas still there, it's gonna be complicated,
11:23 because I guess Gaza has to be run then by others than Hamas.
11:27 - Well, one of the benefits of being here
11:32 is to be able to see all of my colleagues.
11:34 And we have been meeting and talking on a continuous basis
11:39 since October 7th,
11:41 but particularly since the beginning of the year,
11:44 looking really at two things.
11:46 The need to be ready for a day after plan for Gaza
11:50 to include what is to be done about security,
11:54 what is to be done about governance and administration,
11:56 what is to be done about the humanitarian
11:58 and reconstruction needs.
12:00 And a lot of work has been done on that.
12:03 More work needs to be done so that we can be ready.
12:07 At the same time, I think it's clear that
12:10 in the absence of a real political horizon
12:14 for the Palestinians, it's going to be much harder,
12:19 if not impossible, to really have a coherent plan
12:23 for Gaza itself.
12:24 So we're working on that as well.
12:27 And all I can tell you in this moment is
12:30 a lot's gone into this.
12:33 I think many of these things are achievable,
12:36 but we still have a lot of work to do.
12:39 That's what we're here to do,
12:41 and that's what I'm here to do in part on this trip.
12:44 But let me say something else.
12:46 I think we really can see two paths forward
12:48 for the region as a whole,
12:50 as well as for Israelis and Palestinians in particular.
12:54 There's a path forward where the region
12:58 is genuinely integrated,
13:00 where Israel has normal relations with its neighbors,
13:03 something that it's sought since its creation,
13:06 where Palestinians have their legitimate aspirations met
13:10 for a state of their own,
13:17 and where we end once and for all
13:19 a cycle of violence, a cycle of destruction,
13:24 a cycle of profound insecurity,
13:27 and where the preeminent challenge,
13:30 the preeminent threat to virtually every country
13:33 in the region, Iran, is in a box, is isolated,
13:37 because the region has come together in this way.
13:42 So that's, I think, a path that you can see,
13:45 you can see very clearly.
13:47 And again, the other path is that path
13:51 of an endless cycle of insecurity, violence, destruction,
13:55 that has caused so much suffering and that needs to end.
13:59 But it requires everyone concerned
14:02 to make difficult, real decisions about the future.
14:06 I think our job is to clarify those choices,
14:15 clarify those decisions,
14:16 and make sure that we're doing everything possible
14:19 to provide the support necessary
14:21 for anyone who's ready to make a hard decision
14:24 about the future.
14:25 - And I know you're meeting with your G7 colleagues
14:28 here today, but also the key foreign ministers
14:32 from the region, some of them sitting here
14:35 on the first row, listening very carefully
14:39 to what you're saying.
14:40 I think one of the things that you've been working hard on
14:43 is a normalization plan also between the Kingdom
14:47 of Saudi Arabia and Israel.
14:49 And I think one of the preconditions there, I guess,
14:52 will be from the Kingdom, that there is a clear path
14:56 to a two-state solution.
14:58 And yesterday, it was also made very clear
15:00 from many speakers here that what is fueling
15:03 also this crisis is, of course,
15:06 the Palestinian, unsolved Palestinian issues.
15:09 And if that was solved, it would also take a lot
15:12 of momentum out of Iran and its proxies,
15:16 some speakers said yesterday.
15:19 Do you feel that there is progress
15:23 on the Saudi-Israeli peace?
15:25 And do you feel that Israel sees the connection
15:29 between the momentum for Iran and their proxies
15:33 based on the big impasse that we've faced for decades
15:38 on the Palestinian issues?
15:42 So first, I think the single biggest,
15:45 most effective rebuke to both Iran and Hamas
15:51 would be Israel having normal relations
15:55 with every country in this region
15:58 and the realization of a Palestinian state.
16:02 Of course, both Hamas and Iran have opposed
16:07 a two-state solution.
16:09 So almost by definition, achieving it
16:12 would be a profound rebuke to everything
16:13 that they've stood for and destroyed for
16:17 in over many years.
16:19 Second, when it comes to normalization,
16:22 look, I'm not going to speak for our hosts here
16:25 except to say that we have done intense work together
16:28 over the last months.
16:29 And in fact, well before October 7th,
16:32 this is what we were focused on.
16:34 And in fact, I was scheduled to be in the region,
16:38 to be in Saudi Arabia and in Israel on October 10th,
16:41 a trip that didn't happen because of October 7th,
16:44 to focus specifically on the Palestinian piece
16:47 of any normalization agreement.
16:49 Because that is, as you said, an essential component.
16:53 I think, look, the work that Saudi Arabia
16:56 and the United States have been doing together
16:58 in terms of our own agreements
17:01 I think is potentially very close to completion.
17:06 But then, in order to move forward with normalization,
17:08 two things will be required.
17:10 A calm in Gaza and a credible pathway
17:12 to a Palestinian state.
17:14 So to the extent we finish our work between us,
17:19 then I think what's been a hypothetical
17:21 or a theoretical question suddenly becomes real.
17:25 And people will have to make decisions.
17:28 - Secretary, just shortly, you went from China
17:32 and back to D.C. for a day or two,
17:35 and I guess you also seen what is unfolding
17:39 at many campuses, at leading universities in the U.S.
17:44 as a reaction to what is happening.
17:49 - Emotions, the profound feelings
18:04 that many people have at the suffering
18:07 that so many people are enduring,
18:09 in particular, the innocent--
18:11 (audio cuts out)
18:14 (laughter)
18:16 (silence)
18:18 (silence)
18:20, we're reflected in the way that we're doing things.
18:25 (silence)
18:27 We're reflected in what people are saying,
18:54 what they're doing.
18:55 I don't hear anything said about Hamas.
18:59 I don't hear anyone reflecting on the fact that,
19:02 obviously, the atrocity of October 7th
19:05 never should have happened, but once it happened,
19:08 everything could have been over in an instant
19:11 if Hamas had stopped hiding behind civilians,
19:14 put down its weapons, given back the hostages,
19:17 and surrendered.
19:18 None of the suffering that we've seen since
19:21 would have happened.
19:23 So, where is the demand on Hamas?
19:25 There's been silence.
19:28 It's almost as if it's been erased from the story.
19:31 That's something that I think we also need to reflect on,
19:34 even as I say, I profoundly understand
19:38 the deep emotion that the people are expressing,
19:41 whether it's on our campuses or other places.
19:45 - When you were in China, you raised a lot of questions
19:52 to the Chinese leadership.
19:53 You met with President Xi Jinping,
19:55 and of course, your counterpart, Foreign Minister Wang Yi.
19:59 One thing I saw, you also asked China to nudge Iran
20:05 when it comes to this crisis,
20:11 because we were very close to a full escalation
20:15 two weeks ago between Israel and Iran.
20:18 We avoided that, but what was the response
20:21 when you raised this with Wang Yi to nudge Iran?
20:25 - Well, two things.
20:27 First, Borgia, as you've said,
20:29 we did come very close to an escalation,
20:33 a spread of the conflict,
20:34 and I think because of very focused,
20:36 very determined efforts, we've been able to avoid it,
20:40 and that's usually important.
20:43 And this is something we've been on since day one,
20:45 trying to make sure that even as we work to resolve Gaza,
20:49 we don't see this conflict spread to other places
20:51 in the region.
20:53 Second, with regard to China,
20:55 they have a clear, obvious interest in stability
20:58 in the Middle East.
21:00 They obviously depend on the region for energy resources.
21:04 There are many vital trading partners here.
21:06 - 90% of the Iranian oil, I think, is bought by China.
21:10 - Well, there's that too, which is another challenge.
21:15 But you start with the premise
21:18 that they have an interest in stability here.
21:20 They also have relationships.
21:22 They have influence.
21:23 And so the question that I raised
21:25 with our Chinese counterparts is,
21:28 given that, we would urge you to use the influence,
21:32 because it's in your interest.
21:34 And also, it's something that other countries
21:37 would look to China to do.
21:38 So I think we've seen some examples of that,
21:42 and that's a positive thing.
21:46 But again, it goes to their own self-interest.
21:48 - Yeah, because I think China played a role
21:50 in the rapprochement between the kingdom and Iran,
21:52 even if, I think, you were part of it too.
21:55 But China played a role there.
21:58 - They did, and it's something that we supported.
22:00 Because again, if we can find, through diplomacy,
22:04 ways to ease tensions and to avoid any conflict,
22:08 that's a good thing.
22:12 And to the extent China can play a constructive role
22:14 in advancing that, that's good too.
22:17 - I think you had other topics
22:19 that you raised with Wang Yi too.
22:21 One of them was your concern over China's support
22:24 for Russia's defense industry.
22:27 What did Wang Yi respond to that one?
22:31 - Well, I raised this both with my counterpart, Wang Yi,
22:34 as well as with President Xi directly.
22:37 And let's understand what's going on.
22:40 We have engaged with China
22:43 from the start of the Russian aggression against Ukraine
22:46 and urged them not to provide Russia with arms,
22:50 with weapons that would fuel the aggression.
22:53 And I think it's fair to say
22:54 that China's not directly supplied Russia with weapons,
22:58 with missiles, with munitions.
23:00 Iran is doing it.
23:03 North Korea's doing it.
23:05 However, what China is doing is providing
23:12 invaluable support to Russia's defense industrial base
23:15 that's helping Russia deal with the massive pressure
23:20 that's been exerted through sanctions,
23:22 through export controls, and other measures.
23:25 If you look at what Russia's done over the last year
23:27 in terms of its production of munitions,
23:30 missiles, tanks, and armored vehicles,
23:32 it's produced them at a faster pace
23:35 than at any time in its modern history,
23:37 including during the Cold War as the Soviet Union.
23:41 How has it been able to do that?
23:43 Because it's getting massive inputs of machine tools,
23:47 microelectronics, optics, mostly coming from China.
23:51 70% of the machine tools,
23:53 90% of the microelectronics are coming from China.
23:56 Now, these are dual-use items,
23:58 but we know very clearly where so many of them are going.
24:01 And this poses two problems.
24:04 It is enabling Russia
24:06 to continue the aggression against Ukraine,
24:08 so it's perpetuating a war
24:10 that China says it would like to see come to an end,
24:12 as all of us would.
24:13 But second, it's also enabling Russia
24:16 to rebuild a defense industrial base
24:21 that countries throughout Europe are deeply concerned
24:24 will be turned against them after Ukraine is done.
24:28 And so at the very time that Russia is seeking
24:32 better relations with countries in Europe,
24:34 it's also fueling the greatest challenge
24:36 to European security since the end of the Cold War.
24:39 And as I shared with my Chinese colleagues,
24:42 you can't have it both ways.
24:44 - What was their reaction?
24:46 Did they promise to then not supply 70%
24:49 of the machine tools?
24:52 - It wouldn't be fair of me to speak for them
24:54 or characterize their response.
24:55 Let's see what actually happens.
24:58 - But you're hopeful?
25:00 - I'm not gonna put a label on it
25:02 other than to say they've heard us clearly,
25:05 but I think as important, maybe more important,
25:08 they're hearing this from European countries.
25:11 I've talked to a number of European leaders
25:14 about this in recent weeks,
25:16 including, for example, President Macron in France,
25:19 and I know the deep concern that Europeans have
25:22 about this support for the defense industrial base
25:27 in Russia, because again, this poses a threat
25:30 to Europe's security, not only Ukraine, but all of Europe.
25:34 - I also saw that in the meeting
25:37 between you and President Xi Jinping,
25:40 he said that at least the Chinese media reported
25:44 the following, that the US and China should be partners,
25:49 not rivals, and seek mutual success
25:52 rather than harming each other.
25:55 What was your response to that?
25:59 - Well, look, let's look where we've been
26:00 over the last year.
26:01 I went to China almost a year ago,
26:05 the first trip that anyone from the administration
26:09 had made at a senior level to China,
26:11 because President Biden was determined
26:14 that we would manage responsibly the relationship
26:17 between our two countries.
26:18 He believes that's something that's a requirement,
26:21 and that the rest of the world looks to us
26:22 to manage it responsibly.
26:24 And that starts with communicating.
26:25 It starts with making sure that we have sustained engagement
26:28 at every level of our government
26:30 with our Chinese counterparts.
26:32 And it's a reflection of the fact that, as I said,
26:34 the relationship is incredibly complex,
26:36 and it's clearly very competitive,
26:39 but we want to make sure that competition
26:41 does not veer into conflict.
26:43 And the best way to do that is to be talking, to be engaged.
26:47 There are aspects where we're directly contesting each other,
26:51 but there are also places where we're cooperating.
26:53 And you start, again, by engagement, by talking.
26:57 And after my trip, we had other colleagues go to China,
27:02 and then, most important,
27:03 President Biden and President Xi met at the end of last year
27:06 on the margins of the APEC Summit outside of San Francisco.
27:09 And they agreed that we would work to make sure
27:13 that we were responsibly managing the relationship,
27:18 putting as much stability into it as we possibly could,
27:22 dealing directly with our differences,
27:25 but also looking to see if there were areas
27:26 where we can cooperate.
27:27 And they identified a couple of areas.
27:31 One, making sure that we actually restored
27:34 the military-to-military communications that we had,
27:36 but that have been interrupted.
27:38 Absolutely essential to trying to make sure
27:40 that we don't have a miscommunication,
27:42 a misunderstanding that leads to conflict.
27:44 That's been restored, and we now have these communications
27:47 between our militaries at every level,
27:49 from the Secretary of Defense and the Joint Chiefs on down.
27:53 Second, looking for areas where it made sense
27:56 for us to actually cooperate.
27:58 One of those is on the scourge of synthetic opioids.
28:01 The number one killer of Americans
28:04 between the ages of 18 and 45
28:06 is a synthetic opioid, fentanyl.
28:08 And just think about that for a second.
28:09 Let that sink in.
28:10 It's not guns, it's not cancer,
28:14 it's not automobile accidents, it's a synthetic opioid.
28:18 And the nature of this challenge
28:22 is that chemicals that are made for perfectly legal purposes
28:28 can be manufactured on one side of the globe
28:30 and then diverted to criminal enterprises
28:33 that turn it into an opioid.
28:36 And that's what's been happening in the United States.
28:38 But this problem, where we've been a canary in the coal mine,
28:41 it's hit us hard, it's hit us first,
28:43 we now see spreading around the world.
28:45 And as our own market gets saturated,
28:47 we see these criminal enterprises developing markets
28:51 in Europe, in Asia, in Latin America.
28:55 Now, sometimes it's fentanyl,
28:56 sometimes it's ketamine, sometimes it's captagon,
28:59 sometimes it's methamphetamines,
29:01 but we see the spreading.
29:02 That's why we put together a coalition
29:05 of more than 140 countries to work on this.
29:08 But China has a critical role to play
29:10 because it's a huge chemical manufacturer,
29:12 and we found, not by intent,
29:14 that many of the chemicals that are used
29:18 to synthesize fentanyl start in China,
29:21 get sent near us, typically to Mexico,
29:24 turned into fentanyl, come into the United States,
29:26 kill a lot of people.
29:28 So, we sought to see if we couldn't cooperate together,
29:33 and we now have that cooperation,
29:35 and we've seen positive steps that China's taken
29:38 in terms of taking down some of the companies
29:42 that are involved, putting in place new regulations.
29:44 More needs to be done,
29:45 and this is what we talked about on this trip,
29:48 to really carry this forward, but it's progress,
29:51 and it's a demonstration that we can work together
29:53 when it's in our mutual interest to do it.
29:55 We're now gonna have a dialogue
29:56 on artificial intelligence.
29:58 Really important that our countries talk about the risks,
30:02 the safety issues, attendant to AI,
30:04 which is gonna be one of the defining technologies
30:07 of the coming years.
30:10 - We need some traffic rules there.
30:12 - We do. - On cybercrime,
30:13 on climate change, on future pandemics, and all that.
30:18 Secretary, I know you have a busy agenda for PISAIR.
30:23 There is a lot to be achieved in the coming hours.
30:26 I don't want to take too much of your time,
30:29 but maybe last questions coming back
30:32 to the situation in Europe and Ukraine.
30:36 The Congress did pass 61 billion to Ukraine.
30:41 It was not an easy road.
30:46 The Ukrainians appreciated this a lot,
30:50 but is there a path towards an end of the Ukraine war?
30:55 We're talking about breaking impulses and all this,
31:03 but it's very hard to see
31:05 what such an end could be.
31:13 - Well, look, it depends mostly on Vladimir Putin
31:16 and what he decides.
31:17 Now, I think Putin has believed that he can outlast Ukraine
31:22 and outlast Ukraine's supporters.
31:24 The success in, as we say, better late than never,
31:29 getting the supplemental budget request
31:32 is a demonstration that we're not going anywhere.
31:35 That support is continuing, and in fact,
31:38 the 61 or so billion dollars is, as we speak, moving forward.
31:43 And that's critical,
31:45 because I think it's both a practical
31:47 and psychological boost to Ukrainians
31:50 who have had a tough nine months or so,
31:54 but also a clear demonstration
31:55 that the support remains and it endures.
31:59 Beyond that, there are a number of things
32:01 that are happening that I think are a demonstration
32:03 that we're in this for Ukraine to be strong in the long haul
32:08 and to stand strongly on its own two feet,
32:09 militarily, economically, democratically.
32:12 Militarily, beyond the support that we're providing
32:15 in the immediate, and Europeans are providing.
32:17 And by the way, I said this before,
32:20 but we often talk about the challenges of burden sharing.
32:23 I've never seen a better example of burden sharing
32:25 than in the case of Ukraine,
32:26 where European partners, Asian partners,
32:29 others, for as much as we've done, have done even more.
32:32 And that continues.
32:34 But even as we're dealing with the immediate needs
32:37 of Ukraine, we have now more than 30 countries
32:39 that have negotiated or will soon complete negotiations
32:42 on bilateral security agreements with Ukraine
32:45 that will help it stand up a future force
32:47 that can deter aggression and defend against aggression
32:50 into the future.
32:52 At the same time, we're driving private sector investment
32:54 into Ukraine.
32:55 There are tremendous opportunities,
32:56 despite the difficult circumstances,
32:59 and we're seeing tremendous interest in that.
33:02 And even the initial success with that,
33:04 including Ukraine's success in making sure
33:06 that the Black Sea is open again to its commerce.
33:10 It's actually exporting more through the Black Sea now
33:12 than it was before February of 2022.
33:16 Revenues are going into the state coffers.
33:19 You can see a future where Ukraine
33:23 will be strong economically.
33:25 And then democratically, the European Union
33:28 are opening session talks with Ukraine.
33:30 That's the best pathway to deepening Ukraine's democracy.
33:34 All of that is the strongest possible answer to Putin,
33:38 because it says that Ukraine will not only survive,
33:41 it can thrive going forward.
33:43 So I hope that Mr. Putin gets the message
33:47 and demonstrates a willingness to genuinely negotiate,
33:50 consistent with the basic principles
33:53 that are at the heart of the international community
33:55 and the UN Charter.
33:56 Sovereignty, territorial integrity, independence.
34:00 If those are appropriately affirmed,
34:03 there should be a resolution.
34:05 Last thing I'll say on this is that
34:08 if you step back and look at it,
34:10 I believe that this aggression by Russia
34:12 has been a strategic debacle for Russia.
34:15 It's had to make this massive effort that we talked about
34:19 in trying to get around export controls and sanctions,
34:22 but it's reoriented its economy in a way
34:26 that is not sustainable.
34:27 It may work in the near term,
34:29 it can't be sustained in the long term.
34:32 And in the aggregate, Russia is weaker economically,
34:36 it's weaker militarily,
34:37 given the destruction of so many of its forces,
34:41 and it is weaker diplomatically in much of the world,
34:45 not all of it, but in much of it.
34:47 At the same time, Ukrainians are united
34:51 in ways that they have never been before,
34:53 including united against Russia,
34:54 which was not the case before 2014
34:56 when Russia committed the first aggression against Ukraine.
35:00 And as I mentioned before, the NATO alliance,
35:03 a defensive alliance with no designs on Russia,
35:07 never has had them, never will have them,
35:09 is stronger and larger than it was with two countries,
35:13 Finland and Sweden,
35:15 that no one thought would be interested in joining NATO
35:18 a few years ago, and now are members of the alliance.
35:22 And of course, Europe has moved itself away
35:23 from dependence on Russian energy
35:25 in extraordinary ways in just the space of two years.
35:28 All of this represents, I think,
35:30 a huge strategic setback for Russia.
35:32 In many ways, Putin has precipitated
35:34 many of the things he sought to prevent.
35:37 I hope that there's recognition of that.
35:39 And look, the minute that Russia demonstrates
35:43 that it's genuinely willing to negotiate,
35:45 we'll certainly be there,
35:47 and I believe the Ukrainians will be there.
35:50 - Thank you, thank you very much, Secretary.
35:53 This has been tremendous tour de horizon,
35:56 but it will not end with us,
35:58 because excellent Tom Friedman you're seeing walking there.
36:02 Tom is gonna moderate the next session.
36:04 - I'm the opening act for Tom, right?
36:05 - Yeah, so we're the curtain raiser for Tom.
36:07 I think he likes that.
36:09 He will have a panel of key foreign ministers
36:14 taking up the discussion,
36:16 but thank you so much, Secretary Tony,
36:20 for your leadership and for your hard work.
36:23 Thank you very much.
36:24 (audience applauds)
36:28 (gentle music)
36:30 (gentle music)