WILLOW talks about her new album 'empathogen,' how it different from her last album '' the vision she had for the two singles "Alone" and "symptom of life," reflects on the virality and success of "Whip My Hair" ten years later, the viral success "Meet Me At Our Spot" had as well, how her biggest music influences came from her mom, the potential of collaborating with her brother Jaden Smith and more!
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00:00 And there's something to learn from that, you know what I'm saying?
00:02 And it's beautiful.
00:04 Sometimes you don't gotta think about it, you just gotta put it out there.
00:06 [laughs]
00:08 I'm gonna remember that.
00:09 [laughs] She's looking at her TV.
00:10 I'm gonna remember that.
00:11 Hey, I'm Willow and this is Billboard News.
00:14 Hey, it's Tetris with Billboard News,
00:26 hanging out with someone who doesn't really need an introduction,
00:29 but hi, Willow, how are you?
00:30 Hi, I'm so good, I'm so happy to be here.
00:32 I'm so excited about your new album, it's out this week.
00:50 - Yes. - You nervous?
00:51 Oh my goodness, I don't think I've ever been more excited
00:53 for a project to come out.
00:55 I'm just, I can't wait for people to hear it.
00:58 And the title, I mean, love that, "Empathogens."
01:01 So tell me the inspiration, why you wanted to name the album that.
01:03 Well, you know, during the time that, you know,
01:07 these songs were kind of coming into being
01:09 and I was creating this concept for the album,
01:12 I was learning a lot about indigenous plant medicine.
01:15 Another, you know, name for these molecular compounds,
01:19 these ancient molecular compounds, are called empathogens.
01:23 Empathy and pathogens.
01:25 Pathogens that create empathy when you ingest them.
01:28 And yeah, I just thought that was a really beautiful explanation
01:35 of, you know, kind of how I want to walk in the world,
01:39 how I want to affect the space when I enter the space.
01:44 And I just thought that was a really cool name.
01:47 âȘ I know âȘ
01:50 âȘ I know that it is we do âȘ
01:53 And "Empathogen" is your sixth solo album.
01:56 First of all, how old are you?
01:57 I'm 23.
01:58 I gotta get my life together.
02:00 23, six albums out.
02:02 Well, how is this project going to be different
02:03 from everything else you've done?
02:05 Wow. I truly believe that this album is my first grown-up album.
02:11 Okay. Okay.
02:12 Obviously, I'm still, you know, young,
02:15 but I feel like I started making music so young
02:19 that you always try to find yourself.
02:22 You know what I'm saying?
02:23 There's never a moment in your life where you're like,
02:24 "This is me!"
02:25 Right. This is true.
02:26 You know what I'm saying?
02:27 But there is a moment in your life
02:28 where you realize what really matters to you,
02:31 and you realize the path that, no matter what changes,
02:37 the path that you're always going to be on.
02:39 And for me, that path is sharpening my musicianship,
02:43 sharpening my compassion.
02:46 And those two go hand in hand,
02:48 and I feel like this album is the first album
02:51 where I'm on the same page with myself.
02:56 Nice.
02:57 And now that you've found yourself,
02:58 how do you feel like you would describe
02:59 the sound of the album?
03:01 There's a lot of funk elements, a lot of jazz elements.
03:07 I would call it fusion,
03:09 but some of the fusion that I listen to
03:12 can be extremely complicated
03:14 and expanding on so many different horizons.
03:19 I would say this is a little bit of a baby fusion.
03:21 Oh, baby fusion!
03:22 You know, just a little baby fusion energy.
03:25 But definitely a lot of jazz, definitely a lot of funk.
03:28 Oddly enough, some pretty big choruses.
03:31 I wasn't expecting that.
03:32 Oh, okay.
03:33 Some anthems in there.
03:34 Yeah, totally.
03:35 But kind of mixed with this,
03:37 a little bit more syncopated, off-timing kind of vibe
03:42 that I'm bringing to some of these songs.
03:45 And the way you describe the album,
03:46 I can already tell you're very, very involved in production,
03:48 I'm sure.
03:49 Tell me a little bit about the production process
03:50 when you create.
03:51 It really matters to me who I work with,
03:54 and sometimes you'll be in a room with someone
03:57 and you'll be working on something
03:59 for three and a half hours.
04:00 And this has happened to me.
04:01 This actually happened to me with "Symptom of Life."
04:03 We were working on the chorus for hours,
04:06 and in the middle of it I was just like,
04:07 "We have to scrap this, bro."
04:10 Like I just don't like this.
04:11 Everybody's looking at you like, "Uh..."
04:12 Like, we've literally been working on this
04:13 for like the whole day, and you just want to scrap this?
04:16 And I'm like, "Yeah."
04:17 But then that's where that beautiful chorus comes from
04:20 with those bass intervals and how it slides up.
04:24 And yeah, that would have never happened
04:25 if I would have just been like,
04:26 "Oh, well, we spent so long on this.
04:28 Let's just go with it."
04:29 You had to start fresh.
04:30 100%.
04:31 And you're talking about like you're very careful
04:33 about who you pick.
04:34 So also, some cool collaborators on this album,
04:36 Saint Vincent, John Batiste.
04:38 Why did you pick those artists first?
04:40 With Saint Vincent and John Batiste,
04:42 they both just have such brilliant minds.
04:45 Yes.
04:46 And personally, I feel like this new album
04:49 and just me coming into myself even more,
04:53 these are the kind of people that I want to have around me.
04:55 These are the kind of people that inspire me.
04:56 These are the kind of people that stretch me
04:59 to become not only the musician that I've always wanted to be,
05:03 but the person that I've always wanted to be.
05:05 The album's out this weekend.
05:07 People will know who you are as a musician now,
05:09 who's somebody you will want to hear the project
05:11 and be like, "Oh, Willow's dope."
05:12 And that kind of dream collaborator.
05:14 Oh my goodness.
05:16 Napalm of Hiatus Coyote,
05:19 David Longstreth of the Dirty Projectors.
05:21 I mean, I could go on forever.
05:22 Okay.
05:23 But who knows?
05:24 Hopefully, hopefully one day.
05:26 But this is a beautiful start to a journey
05:31 that's gonna go for the rest of my life
05:32 of just honoring the craft and honoring the lineage
05:35 that I'm a part of.
05:37 So I couldn't be more grateful.
05:39 And now let's talk about the single.
05:40 So let's talk about "Alone."
05:41 The vocals, amazing on "Alone."
05:44 âȘ Alone âȘ
05:48 âȘ Alone âȘ
05:50 Tell me why that was the song
05:52 you wanted to kick this era off with.
05:53 Wow.
05:54 So "Alone" has a lot of different elements to it.
06:01 It has that 5/4 groove for a little bit,
06:03 which is a little bit off kilter.
06:05 It's not something that you hear very often,
06:07 but then it breaks down into this rocky section.
06:12 You're so good in that pocket, by the way.
06:14 Thank you.
06:15 Thank you so much.
06:15 I wanted to kind of create a bridge
06:18 between what this album is going to sound like
06:21 and what I've done in the past.
06:23 And doing a kind of a different odd time signature
06:27 and using my vocals in a different way,
06:30 but also giving that big kind of guitar,
06:33 big guitar section, belting section.
06:36 I felt like it was just a really nice bridge.
06:38 I felt like it was a good bridge.
06:39 And that's musically, but also lyrically.
06:41 I mean, the song is very vulnerable.
06:43 So how was it to write from a personal space?
06:46 I had a lot of practice doing that on "Coping Mechanism."
06:50 I feel like "Alone" is different from "Coping Mechanism"
06:53 because "Coping Mechanism" was very outward.
06:56 Lyrically, the energy was very outward,
07:00 but "Alone" felt very inward.
07:03 I wasn't looking at the world and critiquing it.
07:06 You know what I'm saying?
07:06 And being like, "This is what I don't like,
07:07 "and you did that to me, and da-da-da-da-da."
07:09 It's more about, damn, how do I feel
07:12 when no one's around?
07:13 What are the things that, you know,
07:15 what are the things that scare me?
07:17 What are the things that bring me joy?
07:19 And yeah, it was, that song is really special to me.
07:22 - What I think I love talking to you about
07:24 is that you sound like you're still a student.
07:25 Like you're always anxious to learn.
07:28 - Of course.
07:29 I definitely feel like the day that I die
07:32 will be another big learning, big learning lesson.
07:34 Everything-- - I'm finding something
07:35 out there, too. - You know what I'm saying?
07:36 We're finding things out every day of our life.
07:38 We never arrive.
07:39 That's why this album, for me,
07:42 doesn't feel like I'm arriving somewhere.
07:44 It feels like I'm settling into
07:47 a path that I've always wanted to find,
07:52 and I always knew was there.
07:54 But now I'm just trusting that like,
07:56 "Oh no, this is the path."
07:57 Like, cool.
07:58 Like there's no question in my mind
08:00 of like, I'm just gonna be walking this path forever.
08:02 - Yes. - Yeah.
08:03 - And let's talk about the visuals for "Alone."
08:05 - Hell yeah. - How was it to be
08:06 in the creative process of that?
08:07 - Man, you know, I'm always so focused on the music,
08:11 and I'm always so focused on the lyrics
08:14 and everything that goes into making a composition.
08:18 And so sometimes other things fall by the wayside.
08:21 - That's so interesting that you say that,
08:22 because obviously I think your aesthetic
08:23 and your look is like so interesting.
08:25 - Thank you. - But I would think
08:26 that's like top tier in your first thoughts.
08:29 - Now it's gonna be, it's about to be.
08:31 I feel like this, I did a really good job
08:34 with this specific rollout,
08:36 and just the art that, you know, surrounds the music.
08:39 But in the past, I feel like I definitely could have
08:42 been a little bit more focused on that,
08:44 and not so obsessed with like, just the music,
08:47 but the music is the thing, you know what I'm saying?
08:50 But yeah, this process, these visuals,
08:53 it was a way more of like, okay, let me really hunker down
08:58 and be obsessed with this for a little bit.
09:00 And I'm glad, and I'm gonna continue doing that,
09:03 because it really matters.
09:04 âȘ My eyes are my weapons âȘ
09:05 âȘ My beauty is a symptom of life âȘ
09:07 âȘ Gotta decide if I'm gonna stay or not âȘ
09:10 - "Symptom of Life," tell me why that was the next one.
09:12 - We had that 5/4 groove in "Alone,"
09:15 and you know, still gave you big guitars, big vocals.
09:19 But for "Symptom of Life,"
09:21 we're kind of going deeper into this like,
09:24 now the song is at seven, you know what I'm saying?
09:26 Now we're in a little bit of a weirder time signature.
09:30 Now we're bringing in pianos.
09:32 It's just kind of easing myself and also others
09:36 into this like, just a little bit of a new vibe,
09:39 you know what I'm saying?
09:40 Even though I personally feel like
09:43 if you listen to "Coping Mechanism"
09:44 and listen to this album, you'll see similarities
09:48 and you'll see like, ah, like specific rhythms
09:50 and specific chord changes.
09:52 Like, it doesn't matter what genre you're playing,
09:55 music is music.
09:56 And I feel like that connection is strong.
09:59 - And so people have heard "Alone" and "Symptom of Life."
10:01 When you think about the album as a whole,
10:03 do you feel like they properly kind of take you
10:05 in the direction or what else can people expect?
10:08 - I think people can definitely expect to be surprised.
10:12 Like how "Coping Mechanism" kind of
10:14 brought you inward to like, express yourself this way.
10:22 I feel like this album is going to bring you inward
10:26 so that you can like, really just be more present
10:31 with every single moment.
10:32 I feel like with "Coping Mechanism,"
10:34 it was about escaping.
10:37 The whole album, I mean, it's called "Coping Mechanism."
10:39 You know what I'm saying?
10:39 It's like, I'm trying to escape this emotion.
10:41 I'm trying to escape this.
10:42 And this album is really about just being where you are.
10:46 And I hope that people can feel that.
10:48 - I feel like I'm learning so much from you
10:50 in this conversation.
10:51 I'm like, girl, preach to me, girl, tell me things.
10:54 Let's rewind a little bit.
10:55 So let's go 10 years ago to "Whip My Hair."
10:58 âȘ I whip my hair back and forth âȘ
11:00 âȘ I whip my hair back and forth âȘ
11:01 âȘ I whip my hair âȘ
11:02 - I don't remember anything from when I was 10.
11:04 So do you even remember that time
11:05 and kind of going through all of it?
11:06 - I do.
11:08 I really, really do.
11:09 I really do.
11:10 There were a lot of fun things about it.
11:12 Now as an adult, I'm like,
11:14 I feel like when I was a teenager,
11:16 I was very like, oh no, like trauma.
11:18 Like I'm feeling sus and there were things that hurt me
11:21 and things I don't understand.
11:23 And now I'm like, okay, yeah,
11:25 obviously there are things that hurt you
11:26 and things that you don't understand,
11:27 but overall, my message hasn't really changed.
11:32 Like "Whip My Hair" is like be yourself, live out loud,
11:36 don't care what anybody thinks, express yourself.
11:38 That hasn't really changed.
11:39 - Oh, I love that.
11:40 - So I really feel like "Whip My Hair"
11:43 is just a foundation for everything that has come later.
11:46 You know what I'm saying?
11:47 - Do you remember like filming the video?
11:48 It was so fun.
11:49 - It was, it was crazy.
11:51 I remember the specific kind of paint that we had.
11:54 It might've been like a weird latex based paint or whatever.
11:58 But after the shoot, I had it all over my body, bro.
12:01 And I had to peel that shit off of me, dude.
12:03 It wasn't the kind of thing that was like,
12:07 you wipe it off.
12:09 It was like, I don't know.
12:10 - You had to physically peel the paint off.
12:11 - It was like a, I don't know, bro.
12:13 It was strange.
12:14 It was weird.
12:15 Still to this day, I'm like, I have no idea.
12:17 I need to try to find out what kind of paint that was.
12:19 It was a lot of fun and I am so grateful.
12:22 I would never take it back.
12:23 - Now thinking about now,
12:25 are you grateful that kind of your start,
12:27 your introduction to the world as you will,
12:29 was musically based?
12:31 - Yeah, I mean, I've tried to run away from it.
12:35 I've tried to be like, no, I'm not a musician.
12:37 I'm gonna do something else.
12:38 And then guess what?
12:40 It just keeps on coming back.
12:41 - It's just knocking on the door.
12:42 - And so that's how you know, like,
12:43 something is really important to you.
12:45 If it causes you pain and discomfort
12:47 and you're still wanting to do it, you know,
12:51 that's like, okay, like, I trust that inner drive,
12:56 you know, even through the discomfort,
12:58 you're like, I gotta stick with this.
13:00 - How do you feel like it would have been different
13:02 releasing music at 10 now that there's TikTok,
13:05 now that there's social media?
13:07 Like, I feel like my hair would have went
13:08 in a whole different direction if that was the round.
13:11 - Yeah, yeah.
13:13 I honestly can't even really imagine it.
13:18 But it would probably be, I mean, lit.
13:22 It would probably be lit.
13:23 - I agree.
13:24 - Thinking about it is actually kind of interesting,
13:28 you know?
13:29 - And you did have another viral moment,
13:30 like jump off real big, "Meet Me at Our Spot."
13:32 So tell me about like,
13:33 did that kind of come out of nowhere for you?
13:35 How amazing was it to be, to get all that great feedback?
13:38 - I never would have guessed.
13:40 I never would have guessed that people
13:41 would have liked that song so much.
13:42 - And then, I mean, it hit, girl.
13:43 - It really hit.
13:44 People really felt it.
13:46 And I feel like the reason why people really felt it
13:48 was because the song was written by two best friends
13:51 talking about some shit that they do every day,
13:53 let alone when one person is being honest,
13:55 but when two people are being honest,
13:57 you know what I'm saying?
13:58 That's like, how can you not feel that?
14:00 I feel like I was confused about it before,
14:03 'cause I put a lot of thought into compositions
14:05 and chord progressions,
14:06 and that song was just a fun thing to do randomly.
14:10 And there's something to learn from that,
14:11 you know what I'm saying?
14:12 And yeah, it's beautiful.
14:15 - Sometimes you don't gotta think about it,
14:16 you just gotta put it out there.
14:18 - I'm gonna remember that.
14:21 - She's looking at her TV.
14:21 - I'm gonna remember that.
14:23 - And then you talk about writing a song
14:25 with your best friend.
14:25 What about writing with your family?
14:27 Jayden's a musician.
14:28 - Yeah, totally.
14:29 - You guys have worked together,
14:29 so how was it to kind of share influences with him?
14:32 - I just love him so much.
14:33 And being able to share a purpose
14:38 with someone so close to you
14:42 that shares your blood and your veins,
14:44 like, there's nothing better.
14:46 There's really nothing better than that.
14:48 To be able to act on our purpose together,
14:53 like, that's what life is about.
14:54 You know, I'm hoping we have more music in the future.
14:57 I'm hoping--
14:58 - That's what I was gonna ask.
14:58 I mean, you guys worked together on this last project,
15:00 so there's gotta be something in the future.
15:02 - There's things in the works.
15:03 There's things bubbling up.
15:05 I'll let him express more about that.
15:07 - What's your discovery process like?
15:09 Like, how do you feel like you found artists?
15:10 Was it family playing stuff around the house?
15:12 You kind of did your own digging?
15:13 - My mom, 100%.
15:15 My mom.
15:16 She would always just be like,
15:19 "You're gonna like this.
15:21 "Just take a listen to that."
15:22 - She knew you.
15:23 - Like, Little Dragon, Goldfrapp, you know, all of that.
15:27 With female musicians who were so unique and eclectic.
15:31 My first foundation of music that I listened to
15:34 was all from my mom.
15:35 When I stopped making music,
15:36 I was in a ballet company for a little bit,
15:39 and then the only thing I was listening to
15:40 was classical music for like two or three years.
15:43 - Wow.
15:43 - Yeah, it was interesting.
15:45 Really, really cool.
15:46 - And how do you feel like all of those people
15:48 that have inspired you, have shaped you
15:49 to who you are today?
15:50 - I feel like
15:51 the courage
15:56 of all of the musicians who have come before me
16:00 who have done something that was different
16:03 or that people didn't expect
16:05 or that people thought was weird at first
16:06 or that people shunned them for,
16:10 I feel like that soul spark inside or that flame,
16:15 that's that thing that just carries on, you know?
16:16 That's the real inspiration.
16:17 It doesn't matter what the genre is.
16:20 It doesn't matter if they're a man or a woman or whatever.
16:23 It's that soul spark, that flame inside of them
16:27 that makes you go, "Oh my God,
16:29 "I could ignite that inside of me.
16:31 "I could help people ignite that inside of themselves."
16:33 Like, I wanna, you know what I'm saying?
16:35 And so that, for me, is the most important,
16:39 intriguing part of it all.
16:41 - And then, of course, we're talking about
16:42 your beautiful music,
16:43 but we have other things to talk about as well.
16:46 You wrote a book!
16:47 - I did write a book.
16:47 I did. - So talk to me
16:48 about "Black Shail Maiden."
16:50 It's out May 7th.
16:51 - Yeah, yeah, I wrote a book,
16:53 60 years in the making.
16:55 I'm just a nerd.
16:56 Like, I just love getting into the most random,
17:01 esoteric, off-kilter things.
17:06 A story about an African Viking is just that.
17:10 Who would ever expect that?
17:11 - Well, now I wanna know,
17:12 when you approach your friends or your family,
17:14 what do they think when Willow comes up to them
17:16 and is like, "Guess what?
17:16 "I'm writing this book, and this is what it's about."
17:18 - They're like, "Sounds about right."
17:20 They're like, "Last week, you were talking about
17:23 "anthropology and going to school to be an anthropologist.
17:27 "It makes sense that you would be talking about this."
17:30 I think my friends and my family, they just know me.
17:34 They just know all of my weird quirks
17:36 and all the things that I love to read about
17:38 and pontificate about randomly.
17:41 So, I don't think it was a huge surprise.
17:43 - And I mean, you're touching on a lot of topics here.
17:44 So, Scandinavian, African history,
17:46 why were those things that you wanted
17:47 to tap on in this book?
17:48 - It's so interesting.
17:50 While I was in the process of writing the book,
17:53 I realized I need to do some research
17:56 about West African mythology.
17:59 I need to do some research about,
18:01 you know, during this specific time period,
18:03 and I hadn't learned about that.
18:06 You don't learn about that in school.
18:08 You know what I'm saying?
18:09 So, I was going around to all of these different bookstores
18:12 trying to find books on this specific time period
18:16 in West Africa, and I really just,
18:19 I had a hard time finding literature.
18:24 - That's crazy to me.
18:25 - And so, I went to my parents, and they were like,
18:28 "Yo, we have a library,
18:30 "and we have a bunch of books on this."
18:33 - Wow.
18:34 - And I was like, "Score."
18:35 I've been going around everywhere trying to find it,
18:38 and now I'm in my home,
18:40 and this is where I could have found it all along.
18:42 So, that was a deep lesson to me,
18:44 and I'm so grateful to my parents,
18:46 because I would have been like,
18:48 "I don't have the information to write this book."
18:52 And also, big shout out to my beautiful friend,
18:55 Jess Hendel, who has an amazing historical mind
19:00 and creative mind, and us coming together
19:03 really made this book exactly what it needed to be.
19:08 - You talk about your growth.
19:09 We've spoken about that a lot today.
19:10 When people have figured out they know who you are,
19:13 know who your family are,
19:13 they kind of already have these preconceived notions.
19:15 Who would you say is Willow?
19:17 How would you want to describe yourself?
19:19 - I would say Willow is
19:29 at her highest potential.
19:32 What she could be at her highest potential
19:34 is a very pure reflection
19:39 of the unconditional love
19:44 that holds everything together.
19:47 I am every day working.
19:49 I just want to be a servant of love in everything that I do,
19:53 and I definitely think that this album
19:56 is me trying to be a servant of love through music.
20:00 And this book is me trying to be a servant of love
20:03 through writing.
20:04 And this interview is me trying to be a servant of love
20:07 through talking to you.
20:09 It all kind of connects.
20:10 - Servant of love, unconditional love.
20:12 That's so beautiful.
20:13 Thanks so much for hanging out today, Willow.
20:14 Thanks. - Thank you so much.
20:16 (upbeat music)