Scotland has a well-publicised and ambitious target of reaching net zero emissions of all greenhouse gases by 2045 – five years ahead of the rest of the UK. For this to be achieved, businesses of all sizes must work together to tackle climate change. The latest podcast in The Scotsman’s Sustainable Scotland series, entitled ‘Empowering the Transition’ and in partnership with The Scottish Business Climate Collaboration (SBCC)*, explores this challenge and highlights the opportunities.
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00:00 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:03 Hello, I'm Rosemary Gallagher.
00:04 And welcome to our Sustainable Scotland podcast,
00:06 brought to you by the Scotsman, Scotland's national newspaper
00:09 since 1817, now bringing you fresh and relevant content
00:13 for the 21st century.
00:14 Sustainable Scotland looks at how
00:15 Scotland is doing its efforts to be cleaner and greener
00:18 for the next generation.
00:19 In this episode of Sustainable Scotland,
00:20 in partnership with Scottish Business Climate Collaboration,
00:23 we're focusing on the topic of empowering the transition.
00:26 We look at the role of SMEs in Scotland's net zero future,
00:29 and how large businesses can help.
00:30 We'll discuss the Climate Action Hub,
00:32 and support offers businesses to address sustainability
00:34 challenges and take advantage of opportunities.
00:37 Our guests are Thomas Billum of Zero Waste Scotland,
00:39 Kate McGeach of Scottish Power, and Andrew Hastings
00:43 of EmTech Group.
00:44 Could you all please tell us more about your roles?
00:46 Thanks very much, Rosemary.
00:48 I'm Thomas Billum.
00:49 I work on the circular economy business support team
00:52 at Zero Waste Scotland.
00:54 I'm part of the work specifically
00:56 in tandem with the Scottish Business Climate Collaboration.
00:59 We provide one-to-one business support
01:02 for businesses looking to develop carbon reduction plans
01:05 and reduce their emissions.
01:08 Thank you, Thomas.
01:08 And Kate?
01:10 Thanks, Rosemary.
01:11 I'm Kate McGeach.
01:12 I'm senior environmental manager at Scottish Power.
01:15 And my background and experience cuts
01:18 across climate, circular economy, and nature.
01:22 I've had previous roles in business planning and stakeholder
01:24 engagement, and I'm currently leading some cross-company
01:27 groups on sustainable tendering practices, greenhouse gas
01:31 reduction, and the use of low-carbon concrete.
01:34 Thanks, Kate.
01:35 And Andrew?
01:36 Yeah, cheers, Rosemary.
01:37 Yes, so I'm the sustainability coordinator with EmTech Group.
01:41 So they're a mechanical and engineering contractor.
01:44 Got various subsidiaries who work in renewables, facilities,
01:48 management, fire and security, stuff like that.
01:50 So basically, my job is to oversee what they're up to,
01:53 see if they need any help, guidance,
01:55 on sustainability issues.
01:58 Because there's some varied companies,
02:00 they face different challenges.
02:01 So there's quite a few sustainability things
02:03 we see that I think will probably relate to what
02:05 we're talking about today.
02:06 OK, thanks to everyone.
02:08 And I'd like to start off, Kate and Andrew,
02:11 just asking you a bit about your organizations
02:13 and your commitment to sustainability
02:15 and reaching net zero.
02:16 So could you, starting with Andrew,
02:19 give me some examples of your organizations, of EmTech's
02:21 commitment to sustainability and net zero targets?
02:25 Yeah, the last couple of years, we've
02:27 been kind of pushing it quite a bit.
02:28 So I joined the company a couple of years ago,
02:30 and I was the first person in the role.
02:32 So I guess that was the first big step
02:35 in terms of going towards that way of things,
02:37 with targets and reduction.
02:38 So a few things we've done is introduce some EVs to our fleet,
02:42 as well as installing EV chargers at one
02:45 of our head office sites.
02:46 So kind of preparing for bringing more and more vehicles
02:49 in as that happens.
02:52 Head office site as well, we've got a large solar array
02:54 on the roof of the building.
02:56 So trying to get to net zero in our own buildings.
02:59 First of all, kind of tick that off, and then
03:01 move on to the larger items.
03:04 And yes, some other sort of efficiency upgrades
03:06 in our various locations.
03:08 So that at the moment, and then the next big ticket stuff
03:11 is more the sort of operational side of things.
03:14 OK, thanks, Andrew.
03:14 So a few interesting initiatives going on there.
03:16 And Kate, the same question to you
03:18 about what Scottish Power is doing
03:20 and its commitment to sustainability and the net zero
03:22 targets.
03:23 Scottish Power is a major energy company
03:25 with renewable generation, retail supply,
03:28 and network interests.
03:29 And we have tried to embed decarbonisation
03:32 into our overall business model over the last 20 years or so.
03:37 So we're a leading developer of wind power in Scotland
03:40 and across other locations.
03:43 We're part of the Aberdrola Group, which
03:45 is one of the world's leading renewable developers.
03:49 And we generate 100% green electricity as well.
03:53 And that's since 2018.
03:55 In terms of our commitment to sustainability,
03:59 we launched a sustainable development strategy
04:01 called Action 2030 last year, which
04:05 includes 28 targets across clean energy, climate,
04:08 circular economy, nature, communities, and skills.
04:14 Within that, we have a science-based target for 2030.
04:19 And we're currently on track to deliver that.
04:23 And we also aligned to our parent group's net zero target
04:26 before 2040.
04:29 Yeah, and then we have targets for circularity and nature
04:31 positivity, which are obviously key to my actions.
04:36 Thanks, Kate.
04:37 And obviously, Scottish Power is a very large organisation
04:39 with many sites.
04:40 So what do you see as the main challenges and opportunities
04:43 for your business, for Scottish Power,
04:44 when it comes to sustainability and net zero?
04:48 There are lots of challenges and lots of opportunities.
04:51 As a business, we've tried to really grasp
04:54 those opportunities over the last 20 years or so.
04:59 I think within the context of this discussion,
05:02 one area of both challenge and opportunity
05:04 is supply chain data and engagement.
05:08 We've got a really broad and deep supply chain.
05:11 And we are working to get actual data for the products
05:15 and services that they provide us.
05:18 Some suppliers are able to provide information currently,
05:21 whereas others need some help to understand their own footprints
05:24 and work out how best to collect that data and provide it.
05:30 Recognising that we have common supply chains
05:34 across our subsidiary companies, we
05:36 need consistency across the ask to the supply chain.
05:41 And it's really important that we share our knowledge
05:45 from our own sustainability journey with our supply chain
05:49 and support them to do this.
05:52 The opportunity, of course, is that any company better
05:56 understanding its emissions footprint
05:59 can often find efficiencies in there and cost reductions
06:03 in the long run and improve relationships
06:07 across their own supply chain as well.
06:11 Thanks, Kate.
06:11 Sounds like there's a lot to happen in the supply chain
06:14 side of things for your business.
06:15 So Andrew, is the same for you at MTech?
06:18 What do you see as the main challenge and opportunities?
06:20 Is supply chain a big thing for you as well?
06:23 Yeah, yeah.
06:23 It's interesting that you and Kate cover that sort of stuff,
06:26 because I guess it's very similar challenges
06:28 and opportunities, but a little bit on a smaller scale,
06:31 I suppose, at a different stage of the supply chain.
06:33 A lot of the time, so if we are subcontracting work out,
06:37 it could be potentially one guy in a van doing the work.
06:41 So there's the same problems potentially
06:43 with accessing data and stuff like that.
06:46 So when we are trying to get our own scope fee emissions
06:49 in line, it's hard to rely sometimes on the data
06:51 that we're being given.
06:52 So as Kate mentioned, that is a big challenge,
06:54 kind of engaging the supply chain
06:56 and making sure everyone's on the same page.
06:58 And obviously, then the asks that come from us
07:00 can potentially be the impact for a medium company
07:03 might not be a big ask, but if it's a couple of guys,
07:06 it could be quite onerous sort of stuff
07:08 that we're asking them to do.
07:09 But yeah, the opportunities are massive, obviously.
07:11 Like Kate mentioned, there's the competitive advantage.
07:15 There's coming, meeting, and surpassing legislation.
07:18 So there's endless ones beyond, obviously,
07:21 the sort of moral obligation to do our bit, in a sense.
07:24 So yeah, there's a lot of opportunities to be met.
07:29 Thanks, Andrew.
07:30 You both mentioned opportunities.
07:31 It'd be good to hear what you've done
07:33 that you're proud of in your organisations,
07:35 what they've achieved in terms of sustainability.
07:37 Perhaps, Kate, you first of all mentioned some achievements
07:40 at Scottish Power that you're particularly proud of.
07:42 Yeah.
07:44 Well, beyond us sort of being a leader
07:46 in onshore and offshore generation,
07:49 we've recently moved more into smart solutions
07:51 to help businesses and homes to decarbonise.
07:54 And we're kind of pushing into that area of the market now.
07:59 And we're also setting up a green hydrogen production arm
08:03 just now to help to decarbonise,
08:05 difficult to decarbonise areas of society.
08:08 So I think as a business, we're quite proud
08:10 of that track record of trying to stay ahead of the curve
08:15 and trying to be a leader.
08:17 Personally, something that I'm seeing more and more
08:21 in my role, and others might chime with this as well,
08:24 is we're starting to see sustainability mainstream
08:28 across our staff and across our supply chain.
08:30 So whereas a few years ago,
08:33 we used to be push, push, push, push, pushing,
08:35 now people are pulling from us and saying,
08:38 have you thought about this?
08:38 Have you thought about that?
08:39 I'm really interested to know more.
08:41 And we get asked so many different questions
08:44 and there's so many different people across our company
08:47 and our supply chain that are seeing opportunities
08:50 for sustainability and taking them and making it happen.
08:54 So that for me, I think is a great achievement
08:59 as a company culturally to be moving in that direction.
09:02 - That sounds very positive.
09:04 And Andrew, you finding that as well
09:06 in terms of what you're seeing at MTech
09:08 and the achievements you're proud of
09:10 in terms of sustainability at your organisation?
09:13 - Yeah, definitely.
09:14 I think like Kate said, the mainstreaming sort of aspect
09:16 of it's definitely happened,
09:17 even in the couple of years that I've been involved,
09:20 the questions that come up in tender documents
09:23 and things like that from potential clients,
09:25 they've definitely increased in terms of detail
09:28 and the requirements and the data and stuff
09:30 that they want from us.
09:31 So it's definitely becoming more and more important.
09:33 And like Kate also mentioned, within the organisation,
09:36 I'm getting the odd email here and there
09:37 from people saying, I was on site
09:39 and this is something we could do
09:40 or this is something we could do in the head office.
09:42 So yeah, it's definitely becoming a kind of collaborative
09:45 thing within the organisation.
09:46 Thankfully, we've managed to reduce our scope one
09:49 and two carbon intensity by 17% in 2022.
09:53 So that's measured against our turnover
09:56 and based on our 2019 baseline.
09:58 So all these wee bits and bobs
10:00 that we've been kind of pulling together
10:01 have made us more efficient
10:02 while also kind of growing the business.
10:04 So it's good that we can kind of continue
10:07 to do what we're doing,
10:08 but while also reducing the emissions per turnover.
10:12 So yeah, we've also managed to set some targets
10:15 which follow a 1.5 degree warming pathway.
10:17 So we're kind of getting a little bit more
10:19 and more science-based, I suppose,
10:21 in terms of the targets
10:22 and they're getting a bit more, yeah,
10:25 a bit more kind of accurate
10:26 and a bit more tight as we go.
10:29 - That all sounds good in terms of what you've achieved
10:32 and the level of data and engagement you're seeing
10:34 across your businesses.
10:35 And I'd like to turn to Thomas.
10:38 Thomas, could you perhaps explain
10:39 the Scottish Business Climate Collaboration
10:41 Climate Action Hub and what it offers to businesses?
10:45 - Yeah, sure thing.
10:46 So the Climate Action Hub is a public
10:51 and private sector funded resource
10:53 that all businesses in Scotland can sign up to,
10:55 to help them understand what the climate crisis is all about,
10:58 how to measure their impact
11:00 and to take action to reduce their emissions.
11:01 And it kind of plays into exactly
11:03 what we were just discussing.
11:04 This demand is increasing.
11:07 We've got requirements from national,
11:11 international organizations, governments,
11:16 through funding and tendering requirements.
11:20 It's being asked off a lot more
11:21 and it has always been asked historically
11:23 for the larger organizations, the Scottish powers,
11:26 those that represent
11:27 the Scottish Business Climate Collaboration themselves
11:31 are eight large organizations themselves.
11:33 But as we tend to move forward,
11:36 we're gonna look at seeing how that trickles down
11:38 and affects those within the supply chain.
11:39 So Andrew and Kate are already looking into that.
11:43 And I think it's gonna be no news
11:45 for the vast majority of SMEs in Scotland
11:47 that they're gonna be required to disclose information
11:50 about their carbon footprint
11:52 and what they're gonna do to reduce it more and more.
11:54 So we're working with
11:56 the Scottish Business Climate Collaboration
11:58 at Zero Waste Scotland
11:59 and produced this learning material
12:02 in the form of the Climate Action Hub
12:04 to educate businesses about what they can do
12:06 and help them reduce their emissions,
12:07 but also come out with a climate reduction plan
12:11 that can meet tendering and funding applications.
12:13 So that is a relatively easy bit of work
12:16 even for the smallest micro-organizations.
12:18 They can assign a little bit of time to put it together
12:21 even though they might not have resource
12:23 in terms of a specific sustainability officer or analyst.
12:26 - Okay, thanks Thomas.
12:28 That sounds interesting.
12:30 Could you go into a bit more detail
12:31 about how the Climate Action Hub
12:33 actually helps businesses address sustainability challenges
12:36 and how you help them take advantage
12:36 of opportunities as well?
12:38 Just sort of work you do day to day with businesses?
12:40 - Yeah, so in addition to all the learning material
12:43 that you can find by visiting the Climate Action Hub,
12:46 Zero Waste Scotland is providing one-to-one business support.
12:49 So we get a whole host of different questions
12:52 regarding what small businesses can do
12:57 to pull together a climate reduction,
12:58 a carbon reduction plan.
13:00 And it's incredibly varied.
13:04 The discussion has been very interesting,
13:06 but I think the main value that businesses are getting
13:09 is learning material, but also the ability
13:12 to piece together information from their activity data.
13:17 So we're looking at bills primarily
13:18 for their scopes ones and twos,
13:20 and then looking at ways to capture carbon data
13:23 across their scopes ones, twos, and threes,
13:26 and putting that into a carbon reduction plan.
13:28 And this is exactly what businesses are being asked for.
13:31 So we've been working directly with businesses of all sizes,
13:35 all sectors, and locations across Scotland,
13:39 and yeah, we're fortunate in Zero Waste Scotland
13:42 to be tapped into a wide network of support agencies.
13:47 So we get to put businesses in touch
13:50 with not only other business support agencies out there,
13:54 but also individual businesses
13:56 that have managed to overcome some of those barriers.
14:01 And building that network effect has been pretty great.
14:04 It's something we're able to do through the use of the hub.
14:07 - Yeah, sounds great.
14:08 And you've managed to work with all businesses there,
14:10 so is it across sector, all size of business
14:12 that the hub works with?
14:13 Is there any certain businesses or types
14:16 you concentrate more on, or is it really sector-wide?
14:19 So we're on the different side of things?
14:21 - I mean, we're opening up the resource entirely
14:23 for any business that wants to use it in Scotland.
14:26 We've been working directly
14:29 with one person's single entrepreneurs
14:31 that work off a computer in their spare room
14:34 to then looking at multifaceted manufacturing businesses
14:38 with really intense and quite complicated supply chains.
14:42 So it's a resource that's fully available to anyone.
14:47 We don't really want to,
14:49 especially when we're working as,
14:50 with private and public sector funding,
14:54 we really don't want to put any barriers
14:56 to accessing the information that's there.
14:58 We've been working with the energy sector,
15:01 agricultural sector, hospitality and tourism sectors.
15:04 We've been working with third sector organizations,
15:07 charities and community groups.
15:08 I mean, we've been working with sports clubs
15:11 and we've even got volunteers
15:12 for this year's World Athletics Championships
15:16 using the hub itself.
15:18 So it was kind of, you know,
15:19 we're making it as accessible as possible
15:21 for anyone to use to their benefit.
15:24 - Okay, that sounds great.
15:26 And you're also doing lots of work.
15:27 So is there any specific achievements,
15:29 successes that you'd like to talk more about?
15:32 - So, yeah, I mean, I think when working with businesses
15:35 directly to support their decarbonization journeys,
15:38 I mean, even small wins can seem pretty successful for us.
15:43 We've been working in tandem with local authorities
15:46 and business gateways and the likes
15:50 to create workshops around the learning material
15:54 and support businesses in person as well as online.
15:59 And some of the key successes I've been seeing
16:01 off the back of that is that, you know,
16:03 some people come and join us at a workshop
16:06 and be really struggling with a particular
16:09 tendering requirements.
16:13 You know, we've got NHS asking
16:15 for changing their public procurement policies
16:20 so that, you know, changes things,
16:21 puts stresses on those that work in that department.
16:24 It's the same with loads of other public
16:26 and private sector groups.
16:28 And when they come in and they, you know,
16:30 they're kind of confused,
16:32 they're unsure how to answer a question,
16:33 they can leave a session feeling relieved.
16:36 That for me is a massive success.
16:38 That's something that, you know,
16:39 I think having that information there, you know,
16:41 and then they can look back on as well is super helpful.
16:45 And I think as well as now that we've been running the hub,
16:48 it launched in March of last year.
16:50 So we're coming up to a year's worth of businesses
16:53 coming through and accessing the material.
16:55 It's been fantastic to see that the hub has been used
16:58 for funding applications.
17:00 And sometimes we see those funding applications
17:02 come through successful.
17:04 And, you know, businesses are getting back in touch
17:05 and saying, "Oh, great. I mean, we used the hub.
17:08 We pulled together a carbon reduction plan,
17:10 slotted it into an application."
17:11 And I think it really helped.
17:13 And that for me is a massive success.
17:16 And I think, you know, if we can do that for everyone,
17:20 every SME and every large and medium,
17:21 small size business in Scotland,
17:23 that would be fantastic.
17:25 - If you're listening to our Sustainable Scotland podcast,
17:28 we're set to be brought to you in partnership
17:29 with the Scottish Business Climate Collaboration.
17:31 If you'd like to discuss partnering with the Scotsman
17:33 for an episode of Sustainable Scotland,
17:35 please email podcasts@scotsman.com.
17:38 Now back to Sam, so we'll focus on SMEs and reaching net zero.
17:41 - Yeah, I mean, obviously SMEs are a mass part
17:43 of the Scottish economy.
17:44 So what more can we've done to help them reach net zero?
17:47 And what do you think the consequences could be
17:48 for the wider economy and for the just transition
17:50 if SMEs don't focus enough on the sustainability journey?
17:54 - Yeah, so, I mean,
17:58 there's a whole host of risks that come involved
18:01 with when we're looking at climate change going forward.
18:04 Some of them might not be so obvious.
18:06 Some of them we see them day in, day out,
18:07 with, you know, just changes in the climate in general.
18:10 But if a business hasn't really thought
18:12 or had the opportunity to take a step back
18:15 and not build any climate resilience whatsoever,
18:17 they're really kind of setting themselves up
18:20 to fail going forward.
18:22 You know, whether it affects directly the climate
18:25 that we're in right now, we might not see it,
18:26 might see some flooding going on.
18:28 But if the climate impacts are affecting other areas
18:32 of the world that you rely on for your supply chain
18:34 and your supply chains weakened by that,
18:36 it will have a direct effect on you.
18:37 And if you haven't got some way of stabilizing that,
18:39 controlling that or understanding that,
18:42 then especially for an SME,
18:44 you're pretty vulnerable going forward.
18:47 You know, there's things that we can all do as individuals
18:51 and as business owners and operators to reduce
18:55 the amount that we consume.
18:57 That's something that we like to strive for
18:59 at Zero Waste Scotland.
19:00 But there's this additional benefit of doing that,
19:03 is that, you know, costs can be reduced.
19:06 Having a better control over our bills
19:09 is always good for business.
19:11 And, you know, building that climate resilience
19:14 is something that we've been seeing for years
19:16 at Zero Waste Scotland.
19:17 You know, businesses have been able to do that
19:18 instead of following business as usual.
19:20 You know, they're the ones that are still around.
19:22 - So obviously you mentioned the Climate Action Hub
19:23 is now about a year old.
19:25 So what are the priorities coming up?
19:26 What have you got planned for the next year or beyond?
19:30 - Yeah, so our future plans and priorities for the hub
19:33 are really to just roll it out nationwide even more.
19:37 Make it accessible for everyone.
19:38 Make sure everyone knows about it.
19:40 Make sure people who, you know, aren't really sure,
19:43 just try out and see if the resources are useful for them.
19:47 You know, work more in tandem with local authorities,
19:51 business networks, business gateways,
19:53 and help provide them that zero support as well.
19:56 And then, you know, after we've been working
20:00 with more and more businesses,
20:01 we want to start pairing them up.
20:03 We want, you know, to build cohorts of businesses
20:05 that struggle with similar issues
20:07 and help troubleshoot them collectively.
20:10 Like one of the biggest benefits of sustainability
20:13 is that it's relatively competition agnostic.
20:16 You can be, you know, fierce competitors
20:19 in the business world,
20:20 but still struggle in similar ways
20:23 with your bills, for example, or with your supply chain.
20:27 And you can pair up together
20:28 and actually mutually benefit from one another,
20:31 learn from each other,
20:32 and building that communication piece.
20:34 So, you know, obviously we want to support businesses
20:37 and help educate businesses as much as possible
20:39 from our standpoint,
20:43 but what I've been seeing more and more
20:45 is that businesses learn from each other a lot.
20:47 And I think that can be one of the most useful parts
20:49 of any workshop, any sort of event
20:54 that we've ever put together.
20:55 It's that communication between businesses
20:57 around one another to say,
20:58 "We're struggling with this.
21:00 What are you guys doing?"
21:01 And so that's been really good.
21:03 So we want to help take that forward,
21:05 build those cohorts more.
21:07 And then finally, we want to grow the resource bank.
21:11 You know, currently we've got, you know,
21:13 e-learning modules that take you through the whole process
21:17 with, you know, basic carbon literacy
21:20 and the tools to develop a carbon reduction plan,
21:22 but we want to look at specific sectors.
21:24 We want to look at specific areas of sustainability
21:27 and sort of drill down deeper there too.
21:29 So yeah, there's lots of scope for benefit
21:33 and there's lots of outreach opportunities
21:35 that we're looking to explore going forward.
21:38 - Enough to keep you busy then for a year at least.
21:41 And obviously you mentioned working together
21:44 then how important it is for business
21:45 to come together in cohorts.
21:47 Kate and Andrew, could you perhaps expand on that
21:49 and why you think collaboration is so important
21:52 for companies looking to meet sustainability objectives
21:54 and net zero?
21:55 Perhaps Andrew, could you go first on that please?
21:58 - Yeah, sure.
21:59 From a, as Thomas just mentioned,
22:01 like businesses learn from each other
22:03 and we've got a good number of businesses
22:05 in our supply chain and ultimately we want to measure
22:09 and reduce our scope for the emissions.
22:10 So the more that our supply chain knows about,
22:13 you know, carbon reduction, carbon accounting,
22:16 whatever that may be,
22:17 the more it'll benefit us in a sort of M to XL fish fashion.
22:20 Like looking at it from our point of view,
22:22 it's going to increase our reliability
22:25 of our carbon footprint and help us to reduce.
22:27 So, because realistically we wouldn't be able to do it
22:30 without them.
22:30 You know, we could make all the changes in the world,
22:32 but there's going to be a big chunk of our emissions
22:35 that are in the supply chain.
22:36 So, you know, resources like the Climate Action Hub
22:38 are really going to help us do a bit of our work for us
22:41 in terms of educating other businesses
22:44 which sit within our supply chain.
22:46 And from a sort of a wider economy standpoint,
22:50 I think last year SMEs contributed
22:53 to about half of private sector turnover in the UK.
22:56 So in terms of, you know, UK wide goals,
22:58 Scotland goals, trying to reduce carbon emissions
23:02 at that sort of scale is going to be ultimately,
23:04 you know, it's going to be pivotal
23:05 for meeting any goals that are set.
23:07 - And Kate, would you agree that that's why collaboration
23:10 is so vital?
23:12 - Absolutely.
23:13 I agree with everything that Thomas and Andrew
23:15 have already said.
23:17 I think for us, you know, we recognise
23:19 that sustainability issues are systems issues.
23:22 There's no single organisation that can see
23:26 some of these tricky sustainability problems
23:29 from every angle.
23:30 And so the only way to do that is to collaborate widely
23:34 and share a lot of information
23:36 and seek to understand and solve issues
23:39 from a number of different angles.
23:42 As Andrew said, we learn a huge amount from our peers
23:46 and from our supply chain.
23:48 And there's a lot of cross-industry engagement
23:51 that happens within the energy industry.
23:53 And, you know, we're trying to encourage
23:56 more of our supply chain into that engagement.
23:58 And we do find that some of the most powerful solutions
24:02 come about from that open,
24:04 non-competitive collaboration space.
24:08 So, yeah, that's super important.
24:11 Thinking broadly about sustainability
24:14 and nature and circularity as well,
24:18 as others have mentioned,
24:21 we've got impacts through our supply chain
24:24 and we need to look at the risks and dependencies
24:28 that we have within our supply chain
24:30 on nature and on materials.
24:33 And so that also requires lots of collaboration
24:36 internationally, trying to winkle out
24:41 all of the different supply chain actors
24:43 right down through that chain.
24:46 So, yeah, it's collaboration is, we're nothing without it.
24:49 - Yeah, and can you give me some examples of collaborations
24:53 Scottish Power has been involved in recently?
24:55 - Yeah, so we do, as you would imagine, quite a lot.
24:59 We are, of course, a member
25:01 of the Scottish Business Climate Collaboration,
25:03 which we find really valuable.
25:05 We have been active in the development
25:09 of the recent Scottish Onshore Wind Sector Deal,
25:12 which looks at aspects including circularity and things.
25:17 We have a partnership with WWF
25:21 on how to accelerate decarbonisation
25:23 specifically within the home.
25:25 And there's also the Powering Net Zero Partnership
25:29 with SSE and others in the sector supply chain
25:34 that we're a member of as well.
25:36 And in terms of my current involvement,
25:38 I'm involved in Scottish Water's
25:40 Low Carbon Concrete Partner Ecosystem,
25:43 which is made up of group
25:44 of large infrastructure organisations.
25:47 And that group's aiming to stimulate and accelerate
25:50 the uptake of low carbon concrete products in Scotland.
25:52 And as you may know, there are a lot of actors
25:56 of large and small sizes in that supply chain,
26:00 and it's a very local supply chain as well.
26:04 So that's quite interesting
26:05 from an SME perspective as well.
26:07 And then finally, I'm also a member
26:09 of the Sustainable Glasgow Green Economy Hub,
26:12 which brings together Glasgow-based businesses primarily
26:15 to deliver collective action on climate
26:18 and to share best practise.
26:19 And recently we also had Thomas come and present
26:22 about the climate hub to that group.
26:25 - Sounds great, lots of collaboration there.
26:27 And Andrew as well, in terms of MTEC,
26:30 what recent collaborations have you been involved with?
26:32 - Yeah, yeah, we've had quite a few.
26:34 We're very much looking to kind of learn
26:36 as much as we can.
26:37 As we've mentioned previously,
26:38 a lot of that comes from other businesses,
26:40 but a lot of that can come from sort of expert organisations.
26:44 So even with climate itself,
26:46 organisations like Scotland Against Modern Slavery
26:49 and Social Enterprise UK,
26:51 we've been kind of getting involved with
26:52 to learn from them the best, you know,
26:54 well for Scotland Against Modern Slavery in particular,
26:57 it's all about quite recent legislation and stuff
27:00 that's come out that can potentially affect us
27:02 when we're employing people,
27:05 all things that, you know, as a responsible business,
27:08 we really need to be up on.
27:09 So, and then on the sort of environmental side of things,
27:12 we've been looking for accreditation,
27:14 you know, the various sort of,
27:18 the actions and stuff that are recommended from them.
27:20 So, EFOBADIS is one that we went for.
27:22 So we're trying to improve that score year on year.
27:24 So it's a good sort of, a good marker
27:27 to kind of check every year,
27:28 just to see how we're doing policies, procedures,
27:30 and our actions on things like climate reduction.
27:33 But kind of going back to the supply chain,
27:36 we're quite often collaborating with our clients
27:38 or with subcontractors and stuff on various asks.
27:40 So one particular one recently we delivered a project
27:44 and then the client came back to us
27:45 and asked us to quantify our carbon footprint
27:48 for that project for the delivery of it.
27:50 So that was an interesting one where
27:53 we kind of turned the work we've done
27:54 on our annual carbon footprint
27:56 and kind of focused it down into one particular area
27:58 in terms of an actual operation.
28:00 So I wouldn't be surprised
28:01 if that becomes a little bit more common
28:03 as various organisations want to be even more particular
28:06 with their own carbon footprint.
28:08 So they are coming to us and saying,
28:09 that job you did for us,
28:10 how much was that in terms of carbon?
28:12 So yeah, I think there'll be more of that on the horizon.
28:16 - Okay, that sounds good.
28:17 Thank you both.
28:18 We've also talked about the Climate Action Hub
28:19 throughout our conversation today.
28:21 But can you both tell a bit more about your involvement
28:22 with the Climate Action Hub itself?
28:25 Andrew?
28:26 - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
28:27 So I've been the sort of, the MTech guinea pig, I suppose.
28:30 So I was the first to access it from our organisation.
28:34 So I've used the various kind of action plans
28:36 to set benchmarks and see what I kind of need
28:38 to work on personally.
28:39 And then I've moved through the e-learnings
28:41 and access to other resources and things like that.
28:44 It's been very good for,
28:45 you know, it's a lot of very informative stuff.
28:47 So I can imagine that we're lucky at MTech
28:50 and that my sort of little job is this sort of topic.
28:54 But I can imagine if you were one or two people
28:57 or even slightly more than that,
28:59 you didn't have too much resource to give to it.
29:01 It would be an excellent resource for working through
29:03 and kind of giving you a good step-by-step
29:07 on how to go through your sort of carbon accounting
29:09 and reduction journey.
29:11 - And Kate,
29:12 tell us what you've done with the Climate Action Hub.
29:15 - Yep.
29:16 So obviously we were part of the steering group
29:19 that helped to conceive the idea in the first place.
29:24 And, you know, since it's been up and running,
29:26 we've been encouraging our supply chain,
29:28 particularly SMEs to engage with the Hub.
29:31 And we've been looking at how we can start to highlight
29:34 the Hub as standard through our typical procurement process.
29:37 So there's particular points where we could head,
29:41 point supply chain members to the Hub within that process.
29:46 And we've recently launched an SME product
29:51 through our customer business.
29:54 So the Hub might also be of value
29:55 for SME customers as well.
29:58 So that might be on the horizon too.
30:00 - You've talked a lot about SMEs
30:03 and the challenges they face
30:04 and the support they're getting from initiatives
30:06 like the Hub.
30:07 What more do you think can be done
30:08 to help SMEs reach net zero?
30:10 How would you sum that up, Kate?
30:12 - I think that one area
30:13 that we've not previously touched on
30:14 is the responsibility of larger businesses like ours
30:18 in giving a clear direction of travel
30:21 to all of our supply chain.
30:23 It can end up that you have these discussions
30:27 on a tender by tender process basis.
30:29 And actually what we're looking to do
30:34 is to try and give an earlier view
30:37 of what our expectations are
30:39 so that the supply chain and particularly SMEs
30:43 are aware of those requirements
30:45 before they get into a tender process with us.
30:48 And so that they can start to access tools
30:50 like the Hub earlier and be prepared.
30:53 And then, yeah, really that peer-to-peer engagement
30:57 between SMEs is super important.
31:01 So we really support the work of Thomas
31:06 and Zero Waste Scotland and the Hub
31:08 in bringing together SMEs to learn from each other.
31:11 And then bringing our own suppliers along
31:15 with us on the journey by sharing our experiences.
31:18 So we try to engage quite heavily with our supply chain
31:22 and put as much information out there
31:26 as we could reasonably put out there
31:28 for transparency as well.
31:30 - Okay, thank you.
31:31 And a question for both Andrew and Kate.
31:33 I mean, what are the consequences
31:35 for the energy transition and the wider Scottish economy
31:37 if SMEs aren't focused on this drive to net zero?
31:42 Andrew?
31:42 - Yeah, where to start?
31:45 I guess, which Thomas mentioned earlier,
31:47 there's the almost physical climate impacts themselves.
31:51 Like we've seen, there's been some pretty heavy storms
31:55 and flooding and stuff recently.
31:56 So that'll impact every business,
31:58 no matter what it is you do.
31:59 And like Thomas mentioned,
32:00 a lot of supply chains are global.
32:01 So you may not necessarily see a particularly marked change
32:06 in the climate here,
32:06 but a few thousand miles away or wherever it may be,
32:11 the impact there could really affect your business here.
32:13 So particularly for a business like EmTech,
32:17 we do quite a lot of our work outdoors,
32:18 like a lot of other businesses in Scotland.
32:20 So we don't want to be exposing our employees
32:23 to extreme heat, floods, storms and the like.
32:26 So that can really disrupt our business
32:28 'cause we won't be able to actually complete the work
32:30 that we've been contracted to do
32:32 if these sort of impacts get worse and worse.
32:34 So I guess with that becomes price fluctuations
32:39 with various resources and things like that.
32:41 So the actual financial modeling that you do
32:44 for your company, it's gonna be much harder to do
32:46 because there's so many uncertainties.
32:48 The impacts could come almost out of nowhere
32:50 and from a quite unpredictable source.
32:53 So that's a big point as well.
32:55 And I think the overall way that things are going
32:58 in terms of the increased focus on sustainability,
33:02 like Kate mentioned earlier and Thomas has mentioned,
33:04 at the moment, it's sort of a competitive advantage
33:07 and very much a positive thing to be doing,
33:09 but almost 15, 20 odd years down the line,
33:11 it might get to the point where rather than it being
33:14 a sort of positive to have it done,
33:16 it could be a massive negative to not have it done.
33:18 So potentially some sort of carbon tax could come in
33:21 and if your business isn't in line with the legislation
33:24 and the targets that are set,
33:25 it could be seriously damaging to the business.
33:27 So definitely good to kind of get the work done now
33:30 and get ahead of the game rather than be catching up
33:32 in 10 years time and worried about penalties and the like.
33:35 - Yeah, definitely.
33:36 And Kate, what do you see as the possible consequences
33:39 of not having a focus on net zero,
33:41 press and media advertisers of all sizes?
33:44 - Yeah, I agree with everything that Andrew's said
33:46 about the physical impacts of climate change
33:48 and also the transition risks,
33:52 the risk of not being ready for new policy changes,
33:54 for instance, is something that we should all be aware of.
33:57 On a practical level, our big projects go through
34:03 the planning process and more and more we're being asked
34:08 to show how we're embedding sustainability
34:11 in those projects in order to get the planning consents
34:14 that we need.
34:15 And that means that we then have to cascade
34:18 those commitments into our supply chain.
34:20 So there could be a time, maybe sooner than 10, 15 years,
34:25 Andrew, sorry to say that,
34:27 where we just can no longer work with suppliers
34:31 if they can't show us that they're making some progress
34:34 on reducing their impacts.
34:37 And there's a kind of stepped process to that.
34:41 Just now, a lot of our communication is about
34:45 how do you get started and how to take the first steps,
34:49 but we need to go up that ladder really quite quickly
34:51 over the next few years if we're gonna meet our targets.
34:55 So yeah, there's a real risk that suppliers
34:57 in our supply chain might not be able to access
35:01 those tenders in future unless they can show evidence
35:05 that they're working hard on this.
35:07 - Thanks Kate.
35:09 Thanks everyone.
35:10 There's lots going on in the areas of helping SMEs
35:13 reach net zero, but a lot more work to be done
35:15 for everyone across the board and across the supply chain.
35:18 Is there anything else we haven't touched on
35:20 during our conversation you'd like to add?
35:22 - I think for me, I'd just like to say
35:26 that there's a lot of positive in all of this as well.
35:30 And what we've learned is that sometimes you set a target
35:34 and it's very ambitious, but once you've taken that step
35:39 to do something ambitious,
35:42 then you're into the solutions mode
35:44 and you're into finding solutions.
35:45 So what I would say is to businesses of all sizes,
35:48 don't be scared of setting quite an ambitious goal
35:53 because once you've set yourself down that path,
35:55 then solutions start to come towards you.
35:58 - Yeah, and I definitely agree with Kate there.
36:03 I think a key takeaway would just be that
36:06 when we're looking at disclosing and reducing our emissions,
36:11 we're not looking for perfection in this transition.
36:14 It's gonna be messy, there's gonna be hurdles,
36:17 but we are at a stage now where it just needs to be done.
36:23 We need to start thinking about it.
36:24 And I think the most important thing is that
36:26 it doesn't require rocket science levels of expertise.
36:29 What we're asking for, it's actually relatively simple.
36:32 And most of the information that we're asking for
36:35 is kind of there in front of you anyway.
36:37 And the threshold we're asking for, as Kate said,
36:42 is getting started on the journey
36:45 and pulling together that basic carbon reduction plan.
36:47 And of course, there's gonna be more challenges
36:49 that lie ahead, but if we can get
36:52 that foundational knowledge understood
36:54 and that foundational plan put in place,
36:57 then that's obviously gonna help us going forward.
37:01 - Yeah, I completely agree with what Thomas and Kate have said.
37:05 I think a point that both of you touched on is this thing
37:08 that you don't need to necessarily be perfect straight away,
37:10 like you were saying, Thomas.
37:11 There's maybe this worry that someone sees net zero 2045
37:15 and they think net zero is an impossible goal
37:17 and I'll kind of deal with that in 10 odd years,
37:20 I'll start making my way towards it.
37:21 But making incremental gains now,
37:23 you're gonna get all the sort of co-benefits
37:26 from it a lot earlier than if you kind of kicked it
37:28 down the road and then tackled it at a later date.
37:31 So don't feel like you need to do it all at once
37:33 is something I'd say to SMEs as well.
37:35 There's maybe a worry that if you went through
37:37 a certain training regime, you need to implement everything
37:40 from that regime, the next day you can pick out
37:43 the low hanging fruit and tackle them first
37:45 and get the easy gains first,
37:47 and then maybe work on the more complex solutions
37:49 like Kate mentioned.
37:50 The solutions will kind of come to you
37:51 when you're in that way.
37:53 - Thank you.
37:54 Business shouldn't be scared, they should get started
37:56 on the journey and see what support there is
37:58 available for them.
37:59 - Thank you for listening to us this episode
38:00 of our Sustainable Scotland podcast,
38:02 produced by the Scotsman.
38:04 This episode is delivered in partnership
38:05 with Scottish Business Climate Collaboration.
38:07 Please listen out for and enjoy more episodes
38:09 of Sustainable Scotland on all your main podcast platforms.
38:12 Sustainable Scotland is presented by me,
38:13 Rosemary Gallagher, and produced by Andrew Mulligan.
38:15 (upbeat music)