The Norwegian indie-pop star walks us through the journey to her newfound confidence, teaming up with Sabrina Carpenter on her second record and the pressures of being a queer icon.
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00:00 Like for a very long time I really didn't, I looked down on fun.
00:04 Because I was like, that's not smart.
00:06 But then it's like, that's exactly what it is.
00:08 It's like the best part of being alive is just having fun, laughing.
00:12 [Music]
00:21 Hi, my name is Alex and I'm here for the latest Enemies in Conversation series.
00:25 We are welcomed today by Girl in Red, otherwise known as Mari.
00:28 Hey Mari!
00:29 How are you?
00:30 I'm good, thank you. How are you?
00:31 Feeling good, you know, just in the Sony building, meeting Sony people.
00:37 And doing some label stuff, some music stuff, talking about the music.
00:42 All the things I want to do, you know.
00:44 There you go.
00:45 I was wondering, you've joined us today in London.
00:47 Is there anything in particular that you always like to do when you come to the city?
00:50 I like to get good coffee here.
00:54 It's not always the easiest thing, but you know, there are some great places.
00:59 And yeah, mostly that's like the most important thing for me, just like get good coffee.
01:05 Where might one see you frequent some good coffee spots?
01:08 You know, there's this chain called Origin, which is pretty decent.
01:12 Like, it's not the finest of the fine, but it's still like, if you want some,
01:18 like you just want that decent flat white with oat milk, you get it there.
01:22 Are you a proper coffee snob as well? Like, do you have all the equipment when you're at home?
01:26 Yes, I am a real coffee snob. I'm very unlikable in that sense.
01:30 But you know, that's just how it is sometimes.
01:32 It must be really a nice process because you get to do everything.
01:36 Yeah, you know, I have like a hand grinder where I do it manually.
01:40 And I have like all the snobby equipment that you can possibly think of.
01:44 But I'm actually really bad at making coffee.
01:48 Like, even though I have all the equipment and I have all the facilities to provide with such great coffee,
01:53 I'm not really, I don't have the skills yet to do so.
01:57 Good vibes, bad coffee.
01:58 Yeah, exactly.
02:00 We're already getting off to a really good start.
02:03 So let's talk about your new album, which is coming out really soon.
02:07 Yes, April 12.
02:08 April 12. It's really exciting.
02:11 I was wondering, tell me about what you were going through at the time when you started making this record.
02:17 So when I started making this album, I was kind of, I was in a new relationship.
02:25 And I was doing so much better than what I had previously.
02:29 I was in a better place mentally.
02:31 And yeah, I think that's kind of like what really, that was like the catalyst of this album was just being in a good place.
02:40 And then I started just coming up with some new ideas.
02:43 Like one does when they start making an album.
02:47 And yeah, I just collected all the best ideas I had and went into the studio, was touring, went back to the studio.
02:56 Just like try to get this shit done.
02:58 It took a while though, because it was a long process.
03:01 I wanted to ask, I think across a lot of pop artists, there's this idea that you have to be suffering in order to make good music.
03:08 Yeah.
03:08 So now that you're in a good place, did you ever have that fear of not being able to make good music because you're not suffering?
03:13 What did you think?
03:14 Yeah, definitely.
03:15 There are a lot of fun and happy songs on the album and kind of just like cool vibes all through.
03:22 And I remember I tried to make those songs more like sad in a way because I was trying, I felt like, oh my God, you know, this Girl in Red project,
03:33 it's a lot about like mental health and it's a lot of, it's about a lot of these, I don't know, sad things.
03:40 But then I think, you know, when you talk about, you know, mental health, I think a lot of people just, having a mental health isn't just having a bad one.
03:48 You know, when you have a good, like when nobody really talks about also having a good mental health, when you hear the word mental health, you just think about all the bad stuff.
03:55 But also there is obviously good mental health, which is the healthy one.
04:01 And yeah, I was really struggling actually with accepting that, oh my God, I'm happy.
04:06 What the fuck do I do?
04:07 It was a whole like existential thing.
04:09 And then I realized that I had to stay true to myself and that being authentic and being honest on this new album means writing from like something funny and something humorous and something that's like a little bit more light.
04:21 So the way that you use genre on this album, it's very cinematic.
04:25 It's like you use certain genres to evoke certain emotions or images.
04:29 So do you have certain things that you associate with certain genres?
04:32 I don't think so, actually.
04:34 I think all kind of like by accident and just like I'm kind of just like going with feelings and vibes.
04:40 So whatever is on the song is just something that I felt like enhances the feeling that the initial idea or something.
04:47 So and I feel like throughout the whole record, it's like it's really hard to pinpoint like what genre the album is.
04:54 Because like it's a little bit of everything and each song is not fully just one thing either.
05:01 You know, like there's a song on the album called 'A Night to Remember', which is like a piano kind of pop song-ish.
05:08 But then like it also starts leaning into more like there's like an electronic side to it almost.
05:14 So I think I just do whatever feels right.
05:16 Another thing that I noticed with the album is that it's you've moved into a slicker pop kind of production.
05:23 Whereas before you were known for these very indie lo-fi songs.
05:26 How did it feel to move on from a sound that defined you so much?
05:29 I actually don't think that my previous sound really defined me.
05:34 I think personally, but I think it gives off an impression to the world of who I am.
05:39 But you know, my earlier songs are, they're really old now.
05:43 Like songs like 'I Wanna Be Your Girlfriend', I think that's like seven years old, you know.
05:47 So obviously a lot of things have happened.
05:49 And I feel like even with the first record, I really took a step, like I really took a step up
05:55 and away from my kind of smaller indie productions.
05:59 And even my indie productions, smaller indie productions, I can really hear them like reproduced now
06:05 and sounding bigger because I feel like all the songs are,
06:09 they have this like strong DNA of being produced like a bigger song.
06:13 But I definitely think, you know, this album is a little bit more slicker.
06:17 But also I think that's because like I've become like much more of a perfectionist than I was previously.
06:22 I've developed as a producer, as a songwriter, you know, as a musician.
06:27 So I think kind of like it just makes sense that that's the type of sonics that I prefer now.
06:33 But you know, it might change.
06:35 The next one, I might be like, oh, I'm bored with that sounding so professional and so like high end.
06:41 Like I just want to like do it completely opposite.
06:44 I don't know. We don't really know what's going to happen, but yeah.
06:47 Of course. And I was going to say, because this album is meant to be,
06:52 you said that you were a lot more ambitious, there was a lot more artistic growth.
06:55 So what do you define as artistic growth?
06:58 I mean, that's really hard because like, but for me, I think artistic growth has just been like thinking a lot bigger,
07:05 more holistic, like really leaning into the ideas.
07:08 Obviously, I've signed a new record deal and there's more budget now.
07:11 So also having a bigger budget also allows for like greater ideas and like bigger ideas.
07:17 So I think artistically, like the growth has just been like letting the ideas really lead the ambition.
07:24 I feel like I've had really big ideas and then the ambitions have just kind of like grown after the fact.
07:30 Yeah, but I don't really know what artistic growth is.
07:33 I guess it's just like, I think visually it's different, sonically it's different.
07:37 The growth has definitely happened, but I don't know what the growth is specifically.
07:41 I guess you're still in it, so it's a bit difficult to zoom out and like see the full picture just yet.
07:45 Yeah, I guess like I feel like I'm at the tail end of it, sort of.
07:49 And, you know, I want to start going into new stuff soon so that I don't like stagnate.
07:54 I definitely, you know, probably in a year's time, I'm going to be like, wow, yeah, that was what it was, you know.
08:00 I think I really detect on the last song of this album, whose title I literally can't pronounce because it's just like...
08:06 It's 5 Stars, but I think I'm going to like do a parentheses thing on Spotify where it's called like The Factory so people can call it The Factory.
08:14 But I do detect with that song a real concern about like what are the people saying, what the critics are saying, this real pressurizing environment.
08:23 So could you talk to me about the place you were in at the time that you wrote that song?
08:26 I wrote that, that was the last song I wrote for the album and I wrote it like very quickly in like two weeks.
08:32 Yeah, that's pretty much, that's the whole, the whole concept for the album is pretty much has been this journey within of like feeling, having no confidence.
08:42 And then kind of finding some of it back and then making that music, but then realizing like, what if it's all really fucking bad?
08:49 And I think a lot of my, like my whole career has been led by a lot of artistic doubt.
08:54 And I think my everyday is led and kind of controlled by artistic doubt.
08:57 So it can be, I can be very doubtful with everything. And I think that's like that last song is kind of wanting something to be received well, but also believing in yourself a little bit still and kind of staying delusional and being like, I just got to know this is really good.
09:14 And like, that's the whole kind of concept of the album with that self-esteem.
09:18 But also the album is called I'm Doing It Again Baby, which is me being like making a better album than the first one.
09:24 Like it's, but then towards the very, very end of it, I'm like, can I do it again?
09:28 Kind of ask either, did I do it or else, or can I get another shot at it?
09:33 Because it also feels like the sophomore album is like, if that doesn't go well, usually I feel like the tendencies that people's careers kind of drift apart.
09:43 And then you kind of, they're just like, I don't know, dissolve a little bit. And I just don't want that.
09:47 I was going to say, because your first album was so well received by critics, it got a lot of attention. So did that impact how you wrote the second album?
09:56 I definitely think, you know, getting good critical acclaim impacted me as in like, I trusted myself a little bit more, but also that disappears very quickly.
10:10 Like then the doubt starts taking over again. So I don't really think that it impacted this album, like that I wanted to make something more kind of like wanted to make music that I think people would like.
10:24 Because I feel like a lot of the songs are songs I'm really worried people won't like because they are a little bit weird.
10:29 Or maybe like, there's a song called Phantom Pain where I do this whole like Disney moment where I'm like completely manic.
10:37 And I'm like, what if people just think that's fucking weird, and they don't really get the vibe.
10:42 So I don't know, I don't, I definitely feel like getting the critical, like good reviews and stuff makes me feel really good.
10:50 It's like a dopamine hit, but also it's, I don't think it affected it long term because I was still back to feeling like shit when I was making the new one.
10:58 I really hear that. But it sounds like with the making of this album, you've sort of seemed to found a way to get to a point where you feel a bit more confident.
11:06 So when you did start to feel artistic doubt, who did you turn to? Or what did you read? Or what did you think in order to gain confidence?
11:13 I, you know, I definitely get a lot of confidence from my mom and my collaborator, Mattias Telles, who I co-wrote and produced the album with.
11:22 So I definitely did find my confidence, like that's kind of been the whole journey has been to like how like, I got that high feeling of like, I'm doing it again, baby.
11:33 And then really throughout the whole process, I felt like I wasn't doing it. But then like, it was kind of like overcoming that, like my writer's block.
11:42 Like, I literally been sitting hours and hours in the studio, not writing a single fucking word.
11:47 Definitely it's been that journey of finding that self-esteem again, you know, on songs like "Doing It Again Baby", which is like this funny, upbeat song about feeling fucking cool.
11:57 And like, that was like such a hard song to write, because I wasn't feeling so cool. So I had to like really tune into that.
12:05 But yeah, mostly I've been turning to my mom and my sister, my girlfriend, Mattias, who I produced it with.
12:11 Yeah, just like my best friends, people around me, my creative director Isaac Jensen, who also shot the album cover with me.
12:16 And he's been such an important player in this whole thing.
12:21 And then I also want to go on that song as well, because during that song, there is this whole country kind of breakdown that you do.
12:28 And it's so, it's just really fun. So what brought you to use country as that sort of frame?
12:35 Just because it's fun. Like, I feel like on this album, I'm like, I'm just, just want to have fun.
12:41 And I just want to do things because they're fun and not because it's like, and also like sonically, I was like, this is fucking cool. It's fucking sick.
12:47 Like, I'm just going with like my intuition, mostly like this whole, like, I don't know, I can't read like scores or notes or like, I don't know anything musically other than what I feel.
12:58 And yeah, my intuition was just like, this is fucking sick. It's so funny with the fucking banjo coming in and then the top line being all,
13:07 I'm loving this new self esteem, like, it's just like, ballsy, big dick energy. I just fuck with it.
13:13 And also Beyonce just made a country, country song. So I, you know, it's like, it's contemporary.
13:19 But it's funny that you do the cowboy, because I really did think listening to the song, it sounds like a cowboy just riding off into the wind being as confident cowboy self.
13:26 Right? I mean, that's what it is. It's like, yeah, it's just about fun. And like, even that last chorus of that song, it's just like firework.
13:35 I mean, I just like, sampled a bunch of fireworks to just like be the big moment. And that's so cheesy and just so fun.
13:43 It's like, I think having fun is like one of the most intelligent things you can do. Like for a very long time, I really didn't, I didn't, I looked down on fun.
13:51 Because I was like, that's not smart. That's like, but then it's like, that's exactly what it is. It's like, the best part of being alive is just like having fun laughing.
13:59 Why didn't you think it was smart or good to have fun?
14:02 I was young and stupid. I was like, thought I was thought I was onto something, but I was so off.
14:08 I know that you took a bit of a break to write this album. So what is the importance of living life and just kind of enjoying life for you as a musician?
14:18 I definitely feel like you can kind of hear on the album that I've lived life a little bit more. But I think that's number one, like, obviously, you got to collect experiences to be able to write something that's authentic.
14:28 It's so, being alive is so exciting. There are so many fun things happening as well as horrible things, unfortunately. But I don't know, I think I was just, I'm so overwhelmed and excited by life.
14:39 So I think I've just like been really enjoying friendships and fun Saturday nights and just like things that are just like fun.
14:47 And that sounds really like trivial, maybe, but I used to not allow myself to have fun. And I used to be like punishing myself if I wasn't making music a Saturday night.
14:58 And like I used to say no to all my friends and I was pushing everyone away because I was like, I don't deserve this or like I need to work harder.
15:05 But now I'm like, fuck no, I need to work hard, but I also need to have fun.
15:10 Was there something that triggered this for you to start having a bit more fun and to let loose a little bit?
15:15 I think, you know, when I moved from my hometown in 2018 to Oslo, it was a bigger city. I was very lonely for a very long time.
15:24 So I think the catalyst for a lot of it was just like actually allowing myself to get to know people and be like, oh, I just met this people.
15:33 I just met this person for like a photo shoot. And instead of just like being like, OK, bye, never see you again.
15:38 I was like, we actually had great chemistry. We're like, we get along so well. Let's be friends.
15:42 We started hanging out. I started basically it's just like I started saying yes to my life.
15:47 I started saying yes to things. I think like that was the whole kind of change here.
15:52 And it all happened right after the first album came out. You know, I'm not very famous, but like I have to some level something because like someone can recognize me at a store in a town I've never been.
16:04 Like that has happened. So to some level, I have a little bit of fame.
16:08 I think that can very quickly go to your head. And I think also maybe I haven't for a while.
16:16 I was a little bit high on myself. I think I was like, oh, like these people are like they're not really interested in like being my friend.
16:23 So I also realized that's fucking stupid. I'll get I'll realize if the vibe is off and then I'll just won't hang out with them.
16:31 But preemptively just going into every single meeting, every single person thinking that they think you're cool is also really like awkward.
16:39 And like so I just stopped doing that in 2021. And yeah, I just became like a more open person.
16:45 I think I just became more humble and chill and low key.
16:48 I was also wondering how does living in Norway impact your understanding of fame?
16:53 That's interesting because like Norway is it's very much like people don't really come up to you.
16:58 They're they're just stare at you. And so I can definitely tell when someone someone recognizes me.
17:03 Plus, Norway is a very small country, so it's not very hard to kind of like be all over the news there.
17:08 But yeah, I think. I don't know, in a way, it's like it's a it's a very low key place to be famous.
17:15 It's like I think let's say if this album did really well, fingers crossed, like then like and it brought me to another level of fame.
17:25 I don't think I would really notice the difference in Norway. So I think it's a pretty like sheltered kind of hidden gem.
17:31 Well, then tell me all about like what you can do on a Saturday night in Oslo, because I've never been before.
17:37 So you've got to tell me you're my tour guide now.
17:39 Well, with me and my me and my friends, we're kind of like roasting also recently because like the night life has really deteriorated.
17:47 But we're kind of what we're doing really is just we're seeking places that are just fucking weird.
17:54 That's what we're doing. Like I find it very like when a sort like I guess like I'm a sort of person like I'm kind of like in the art world, kind of like in the music world.
18:03 And when art and music and culture people kind of just seek those type of bars, it becomes very much.
18:10 It's just a boring environment where you just meet the same people all the time.
18:14 So I feel like it's very the new trend right now is just like to go weird places that are just like random and fun and a lot more genuine.
18:23 So that's kind of I feel like a Saturday night in Oslo is just like go somewhere, play darts, throw darts, drink lots of beer, go somewhere else, end up at my place, smoke a lot of weed inside my apartment.
18:37 And then, yeah, I don't know, just drink a lot of alcohol.
18:42 I have I have a big selection of wine as well as my coffee snobbery.
18:46 I also am a wine snob and I just I just keep pouring everyone's glasses.
18:51 I'm just like this great gaspy dude.
18:54 Yeah, honestly, I don't know. I don't know what the greatest night of Oslo is, but just like being with friends.
18:59 Honestly, any Saturday night is best when you're with your friends.
19:02 That's really beautiful. I also want to I'm really glad that you brought up your apartment because I noticed that you had a TikTok showing us around the apartment.
19:10 Yeah. In that TikTok, I noticed you had a painting.
19:13 Two paintings. Two paintings by someone with the first name Taylor, last name Swift.
19:18 Correct. Correct.
19:20 How did that happen? Tell us all about it.
19:22 That was right after my first album came out and she reposted my album and stuff.
19:27 And I was like, oh, my God, what the hell? That's insane.
19:30 I sent her my album as like a thank you.
19:33 And then she was she emailed me being like, oh, my God, you sent me your album.
19:37 I was just about to order it. That's so kind of you.
19:40 And then she was like, I want to send you something.
19:42 And then she sent me some paintings and her vinyls, which I already had.
19:46 But like still, she's just a gem and she's a very beautiful person.
19:53 So she made those paintings and I got them framed and I got them hung up because like her little flowers and my lyrics on there.
20:01 So it's very it's a very cute little thing.
20:03 Did she write the lyrics on there as well?
20:05 Yeah, she wrote the lyrics on there, too.
20:07 So it's like it says, put me in a field of daisies.
20:10 And then it's like a little daisy and stuff.
20:12 And it says words by Marie Daisy by Taylor or something.
20:17 Yeah, that must feel like such an honor because I know you're a massive Taylor Swift fan as well.
20:21 Right. Yeah, I'm a really big fan.
20:23 I think, you know, she's really fucking cool and she's a great songwriter, great musician.
20:29 She's great with melodies.
20:31 I feel like there's science that goes into her songs because like she's like a scientist almost with songs.
20:36 And same with Jack Antonoff. And I really like their working working relationship.
20:39 And Aaron Dessner, all all of them are kind of like, it's really cool how they're just like cooking up music.
20:46 I always call making songs like solving puzzles and like being you are like a scientist.
20:51 You're like you're researching what works and what doesn't and what's cool and what's not cool and stuff.
20:57 So she's like a scientist.
21:00 So I know that in this you've called yourself a bit more of a perfectionist for this album.
21:03 Yeah. So talk me through like how much editing are you doing in order to make sure a song is perfect for this album?
21:09 I think I've spent like 18 months on the whole album.
21:13 It's been a lot. Like, first of all, just making the songs and making sure they sound perfect.
21:18 And then it's mixing, which took like a month and a half.
21:21 And then it's mastering and making sure that took even like another month.
21:24 So it's just like so many months of perfection and perfecting and perfectionism.
21:30 But I think like when you hear something and it sounds like it could have been on the radio and it sounds like it's radio ready or like if you put it in a playlist of other songs that have made it to Spotify and you're like this blends in.
21:43 But like not not being bland, but like it doesn't stand out as an unfinished song.
21:48 I think that's like when you know that you've done everything you could.
21:51 No, this album definitely sounds like, as I say, real slick pop production, like it sounds proper and genuine and really professional.
21:58 Like, well done. Thank you. Thank you so much.
22:00 I've poured every little tiny bit of energy I've had into it of all the details and everything.
22:05 And also Matthias and I, we work so well together.
22:08 It's like we are one person. He's also his birthday is February 8th.
22:12 Mine is 16th. Eight plus eight is 16. He's born eight, no, 10 years before me.
22:16 So it's like and so in 1989 and I don't know, we're just like we call ourselves twin bodies because we are so in sync.
22:27 We're like the same person, but with 10 years difference.
22:30 And he's a man. But still, I was wondering, have you worked with many other producers before and how do they compare to Matthias?
22:38 The only other one I've really worked with is like in a studio was with Aaron Dessner when I did 'My October Passed Me By', which was the sequel to 'With a Love in October'.
22:50 But yeah, I think there's something with Matthias that's so it's just like, it feels like he is almost an instrument to me.
22:58 And I think for him also, it's like we kind of use each other to push each other.
23:04 And then but also we're so in tune. So whenever I say something that I want to do this, he's like, yeah.
23:10 And then it's just like, it's like we're each other's limbs almost like.
23:15 And so it doesn't even feel like we're two people in there sometimes.
23:19 So you've got a special guest on this album, and I didn't notice that you were going to have a special guest because it wasn't in the title.
23:25 But Sabrina Carpenter just comes into the song out of the blue.
23:28 Was it intentional just to slip her in there as a little secret?
23:32 I mean, when it comes on, when it's on Spotify and everything, it's going to say featuring Sabrina Carpenter.
23:37 So it'll be official. But yeah, it's my first ever feature.
23:41 I think it's really sick that she was able to do it.
23:44 And she is such a pro and she's so cool and amazing.
23:48 So I just feel so lucky that she's my first feature.
23:51 I was going to say the first feature is a really big honor.
23:53 So why did you choose Sabrina and why did you choose her specifically for the song that she's on?
23:58 When I was making that song, I did that last part myself and it just wasn't right.
24:04 And but I already did like an intro.
24:06 I did something like, oh, you know, I'll be really fucking cool on this.
24:09 And then I did like that whole intro where I kind of introduced myself in a way.
24:13 But I really felt like creatively and like sonically, I needed another voice here.
24:21 And I just I just felt like it was like the perfect moment of introducing a completely new kind of color to the song.
24:27 And I really admire Sabrina's voice. I really admire her whole new artistry.
24:32 I just feel like she's leveling up her stuff, too.
24:34 And I think she's really finding her voice.
24:37 So, yeah, I just like I just felt like it was it's really it's just cool.
24:42 Also, it's unexpected because we are kind of operating in maybe two different realms.
24:48 I might be a little bit more indie and she's a little bit more pop and like kind of American sweetheart maybe.
24:54 But I also think her voice on a production like that is so fucking sick.
24:58 And I really hope that she's going to do something a little bit more like that.
25:01 Maybe it was just it was just mostly because it's like ballsy, fun, cool and also just a little surprise.
25:07 Because I don't think it was I don't think anyone really expected something like that.
25:11 But you mentioned your girlfriend, though, and I wanted to ask, how did you how did you meet her?
25:15 Because she's obviously made such a huge impact to your life.
25:18 I met her at a bar in Oslo Saturday night. You know, it actually was a Friday, I think.
25:23 But, yeah, we met like during the pandemic and at like around 10 p.m. on a Friday night, 11th of June, 2021.
25:35 I remember it very specifically because I had gotten a text from my friend and she was like, you should come here and meet this.
25:41 And then she sent a picture of her. I was like, OK, I'll come.
25:45 And then the beer and like the alcohol sale had just closed. So we took the night a different direction.
25:52 We started going to other people's places and really hit it off.
25:55 It was it was that's like phantom pain. And and I remember is all about her and those nights.
26:02 So just she has impacted the record to get a lot of information.
26:06 Yeah, it's very specific. You know, I remember I remember the night. Remember everything.
26:11 And I remember is all about that night, which was very much like a like a long, beautiful summer night.
26:17 And also where the sun never went down because we have like almost 24 hours of sunlight in Norway during summer.
26:24 It's so special. Yeah. So that's why I met her. And we're still we're still kicking it.
26:29 Beautiful. Of course. But I was wondering, because you're you're known for being really honest and upfront,
26:35 both in your music and just as a person. How did it feel documenting your new love for your girlfriend on this new album?
26:43 I mean, I think it might feel a little bit weird for her, but I'm not going to speak on her behalf.
26:48 But for me, it's very natural.
26:52 The initial feeling kind of idea might be might be from something that's, you know, has its roots in real life.
26:59 But then it's also a story and it's a song and I'm exaggerating. I'm being dramatic.
27:03 I'm kind of like so in a way, like things are like they have their kind of origin is from the real world.
27:12 But then it's also fiction because it's a song. So I don't know. For me, it hasn't really been that weird.
27:18 It's been very just like, of course, this is what I'm doing. This is what I do.
27:22 And from the outside, it always seems like your honesty is just so effortless and easy.
27:27 But is there anything that you do struggle to be honest about in general?
27:30 In my relationship, I think definitely I'm really bad with confront like confrontations.
27:37 So I definitely I definitely have a lot of emotional growth that needs to be growing a little bit more.
27:43 But, you know, I'm taking the right steps for all of that.
27:48 And, you know, I think the most important thing is just like you want to change and you want to grow.
27:52 I don't know. I think I'm a very honest person. And like I said, like I think other people are honest.
27:58 I like to think that I'm honest. That's kind of the way I go about things.
28:03 So I don't think I struggle with honesty that much, even though I don't like confrontation.
28:09 That's like my thing. I'm really bad at with like saying that way that hurt my feelings or, you know,
28:15 so I need to work on my communication skills. That's that's for sure.
28:19 That's a very odd pairing to have because you would think if you're honest, you'll I would think if you're honest,
28:24 you kind of would have no problem with conflict. I guess it kind of makes sense, doesn't it?
28:27 Well, I think, you know, I think you can be honest and you can also struggle with things.
28:31 I think you can be two things at once. And so I think that I can be honest with strangers about my life.
28:38 But when it's when it comes to being with that one person, I'm still honest with my girlfriend,
28:44 but it doesn't mean it's we don't, you know, like difficult conversations.
28:48 No, but we're still honest. But still, it's still, you know, the feeling I have is that it's hard, but I'm still doing it, you know.
28:54 So the one thing I did want to ask you is on your first album, you were heralded as this queer icon.
29:00 Looking back on it now, how did it feel to be put on such a high pedestal at such a young age?
29:04 I think at the time I was like, oh, this is a lot. But now I'm like, it's really it's really such an honor to be able to have impacted young people's lives or old people's lives.
29:16 Honestly, I don't know the specific age, but I honestly think it's such an honor.
29:21 But obviously, there's also can freak me out a little bit like, you know, when you asked me about Central City, I'm like, I don't know what's right.
29:27 You know, maybe offended somebody, didn't offend me. There was also like no right or wrong.
29:32 But so it can be a little bit intimidating because I mean, well, with everything I do, but also people are so picky on whatever might hurt their feelings and stuff.
29:42 So I'm like, I'm like a little bit nervous also. But, you know, I like I said, I choose to think that I'm an OK person.
29:49 So now thinking of it, I just think it's an honor to be able to impact people's lives through music and live performances and kind of just like.
30:01 I don't know, it's really just it's just it's a once in a lifetime opportunity to be able to do the thing I love the most.
30:08 And if people look up to me that way, then that's great. But also take everything you see in the world with a pinch of salt.
30:15 That's my little tip from your icon in red here. Your icon in red.
30:20 Well, thank you very much, Mari. I really appreciate you coming in to see us today. I've had a really good conversation.
30:25 Thank you so much. I hope everyone in the cameras and behind the cameras and you, everyone had a great time.
30:30 I did for sure. So like it's probably one of the better interviews I've done for this whole album because I was seated very eloquently.
30:36 So I feel like my words came out a lot better, too.
30:39 You do look very professional. You do look very, you know, that's great.
30:43 That's that's my style of recently. It's professionalism.
30:46 You want to make an important statement just to.
30:51 Thank you. That's my statement. Thank you.
30:54 It's all in the eyes. It's really nice to meet you.
30:57 (upbeat music)
31:00 (crashing)