Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00 We have with us a very special guest, Brijbhushan Agarwal of Shyam Metallics and Energy joins in.
00:05 Remember this company has been on the radar for a lot of the big private investors and also caught
00:11 the fancy of retail investors. Mr. Agarwal joins us to talk to us about what the outlook looks like,
00:16 how's business and of course the big plans locally and globally. Mr. Agarwal, thank you. Thank you
00:22 for joining us this morning. I'm going to start with the most recent news flow on Shyam Metallics
00:29 where we had the business update from you where your sales volumes have actually looked really
00:33 good. There's been a sharp rise in sales volumes but realizations are actually down across all
00:38 segments. You want to elaborate on that and tell us why? Yeah, very good morning and as your first
00:46 thought process about the business, it's very exciting and I would say there's no complaint
00:52 with the kind of changes what we are seeing in the economic policy, the kind India is shining,
00:58 the business is doing very well and related to the sales realization, yes, this is going down
01:06 because the major pricing is being controlled by the international price and we are seeing there's
01:14 a steep fall in the raw material. So, there is some kind of a correction which is happening in the
01:18 finished deal on the product side. So, it's nothing, it's maybe 30-35 days or 40 days
01:26 carryover of the high price of inventory which affect but I would say from the data point of
01:32 view or from the point of view, the overall margin, it is pretty decent. Mr. Gawal, just
01:39 looking ahead right in the next couple of months or couple of quarters, so a little more out there,
01:44 would realization stay at these levels or we could expect an improvement as early as next month?
01:52 See, I see now we are at the election quarter, I don't see the realization should further
02:01 improve because there will be a lot of concern from the supply side and a lot of concern on the
02:11 election quarter, the general issue will be there. But the margins are going to remain and I also
02:18 don't see any kind of a steep correction in the pricing as well. Okay, so no steep correction
02:23 anticipated and margins will maintain because those have also had gone up quite substantially
02:28 quarter on quarter. I am going to be very brave and ask you any upside risk on margins going into
02:34 the next few quarters and also you did talk about how it's election time. Usually at this time,
02:40 business does slow down until and of course, elections are done with and policy continuities
02:45 in place. Fair assumption for me to make that the next quarter potentially could be a little
02:50 more subdued in terms of reporting? See, business is doing pretty decent and I don't see a major
03:00 changes in the next quarter as well. Because we have to understand like during the election time,
03:05 there's a lot of disruption in the logistics side and the consumption of the steel also depends on
03:12 the people, down the street, the workers, the labours. So that is only a kind of a hitch.
03:19 Otherwise, everything is good, the order booking is very good and we are seeing a very good demand,
03:26 extremely good demand in the domestic market. Can you quantify the kind of growth you're
03:34 expecting on your top line, sir? For this year? Yes. Oh, my God. So whatever we had stated before,
03:45 you know, whatever we have, it's almost going to be in the same line. We should be doing in the
03:50 range of around 8 to 9% this year. And that of course, is going to be consistent. You don't
03:58 anticipate any sort of upside on that? This coming year is going to be a big time change
04:05 because a lot of KEPACs, what we did, you know, almost four and a half thousand crores KEPACs we
04:09 did in more than two years from now. So most of the plan will be commissioned in the coming year.
04:15 So this coming year is going to have a good steep hike on the volume as well on the revenue side.
04:23 You know, we talked about our realizations were slightly weaker, but if I look at your margins
04:28 year on year, there's an 85% increase and quarter on quarter is an improvement.
04:33 Further improvement is expected, Mr. Agarwal, any sort of ballpark guidance in terms of what
04:39 margin growth can we expect from your company? Margins are, you know, we are focusing more on
04:44 the B2C market and whatever new expansions we have done, it is majorly either the backward
04:50 integration or the forward integration. So forward integration is announcing our margins
04:55 and creating more value to the consumer directly. So I think we have done, in last two years,
05:02 we have done major issues. We will not see that kind of growth, what we have seen in the margins
05:08 of B2C, but on an average, you can see we should be doing around 12 to 15%.
05:14 Okay, so 12 to 15% is the range that you're looking at for the rest of the year. You know,
05:20 I want to talk to you about your Greenfield expansion project for coal rolling mill in
05:25 Jamuria in West Bengal. I believe that's got an approval for PLI benefits. What is the quantum
05:31 of that, sir? We'll be producing around close to 4 lakh ton, and which we plan to commission this
05:39 plant middle of this year. And so the capacity will come on stream as early as mid year?
05:47 No, third quarter, you know, since we'll be commissioning in the second quarter, so from
05:54 the third quarter, it should get regularised. And by end of last quarter, you know, we expect that,
05:59 you know, we should be able to streamline to the extent of around 89%.
06:02 Right, and how is exports looking right now? You do export to seven countries, from what I
06:08 understand, big conversations happening outside India as well. And how much does exports contribute
06:14 to your top line A and what are the margins there, sir? So presently, I would not say that the export
06:20 market is very encouraging, but it's not bad as well. Like earlier, we were doing around close
06:26 to around 18 to 19%. But this year, I think we should be doing around 10 to 11%. So there is a
06:32 steep, you know, the reduction in the international businesses, because you know,
06:40 of the geopolitical situations and a lot of issues which is happening around the world.
06:45 Right, you know, we talked about infrastructure, we talked about real estate, what I forgot to
06:50 ask you was EV, I mean, that's another upcoming space. And there's so much of conversation around
06:57 that. Are you in talks with partners, collaborators for the EV business manufacturing in India? Can we
07:05 expect anything from Sham Metallics on that front? Very interesting question, but I will not be able
07:13 to discuss in detail, but I can just brief you. Like all the top battery manufacturers, we are
07:19 in touch with them, we have done some kind of a confidential agreement on the product development
07:26 and long-term supply. So this is very much, this is one of a very unique product of Sham Metallics,
07:34 what we have been always talking and we see we will have a good presence in the time to come in
07:41 the EV battery and all the battery, you know, plant which has come up in the country under the
07:48 BLI scheme, like they'd be, you know, regulated to buy more than 70%, 65 to 70% of the stuff from
07:57 India. So we will have a good value, you know. How significant can the contribution of this be
08:04 to your top line over the next three to five years? And I know it's early days, early days,
08:10 but internally, what sort of projections are you working with? And I'm not talking about the next
08:14 few quarters now, a little more long-term, the next three to five years, if it's how significant
08:18 can this be to your top line? See, this is very interesting. In aluminium, we are doing
08:24 a backward integration also. We are putting up a green cycle, you know, green recycle aluminium
08:32 plant. So the present battery foil raw material also we will be making as a green alloy, which
08:39 is also going to add a lot of value to our business. So this is also going to be one of a
08:43 very unique product and is going to be a backward and forward integration. Also, we are planning to,
08:50 you know, enhance the capacity in the battery foil. So once we are through with our board
08:58 approvals and all things, we'll be declaring it officially. You know, I want to ask you very
09:04 quickly about the Mittal Corp as well, which you acquired towards the end of last year. You usually
09:10 land up doing a lot of, you know, ramping up at that unit. You want to tell me what is happening
09:16 there? Any additional capex in this company that you've acquired? And if yes, what can we expect
09:22 in terms of numbers over the next couple of quarters? First of all, I would like to brief
09:27 you. Mittal Corp was a very strategic buyout for us. Number one, like, you know, the raw material,
09:34 the ingredient, what we make, what is used to make in stainless steel is a forward and backward
09:41 integration of our existing plant. We have taken over the Mittal Corp this year and today we are
09:47 operating, this year we'll be operating at around say 30 to 40 percent. Coming year, we expect that
09:53 we should be able to ramp up to around 70 to 80 percent. To your next question, you know,
09:59 we are going with a high value business in the stainless steel as, you know, we are going into
10:08 the stainless steel wires and we are planning to get into the engineering applications like
10:14 stainless steel bars and special sections of the stainless steel, which is a huge international
10:20 market and India has a, as well as developing a lot. Also, we are focusing on some railway segment
10:28 in our stainless steel business. So, this is a good plan and next two years, you know, I feel
10:33 we should be able to put everything, you know, on the street and we can very well enhance extremely
10:42 good value in our stainless steel business. Right. You know, just going out maybe one to
10:49 two years from now, there are a couple of brokerages who believe that contribution of
10:54 additional revenue streams such as color-coded steel, pig iron and downstream steel products
11:00 could actually lift your EBITDA quite significantly, maybe F526 really. Is that a
11:05 possibility and if yes, what is your F526 EBITDA target? Oh, see, we can't discuss all these things
11:14 but yes, I see since we are commissioning the major expansion this middle of this year,
11:20 '26 is going to be a very interesting year and definitely our investors will see a huge
11:29 exponential, you know, in the terms of revenue and yes, with the top line increasing,
11:37 the bottom line also will increase. And the most beautiful thing if you see,
11:41 it's all backward and forward integration from B to C and value addition. So, we will see a very
11:48 different, you know, Apple over and above what we are seeing now in the company and it will really
11:56 have a good edge on the specialty product side, specialty alloy side, aluminum side, stainless
12:03 steel side. So, if you see this is going to be a only company in the country with having so much of
12:10 unique apples and portfolio in the metal space. Right. Also, you know, you did launch a QIP,
12:17 right, to the tune of 1380 crores. So, your net cash position looks very healthy at this stage.
12:23 Any plans to sort of, you know, use that, I mean, what is the cash utilization plan
12:29 that you have in mind? Because this is significant. So, we have a good treasury but this
12:36 QIP money was, you know, utilized to reduce our working capital and, you know, other short term.
12:46 So, in the time to come, since we have a good treasury also and we see a decent EBITDA, so
12:51 new CapEx plans are going on. So, once we are done with our internal
12:56 review and board and all, we definitely would love to share.
12:59 Sensitive are your margins to coal prices because, I mean, that also looks very volatile. I know in
13:05 Jan that was much higher. We look at them now, coal prices have reduced. Any measures to hedge
13:11 that? Because I know that's a key, you know, it's a key sort of input cost that goes in for you.
13:16 See, coal is a very important cost because, you know, we have a huge capacity of power
13:21 and in steel making, you know, as I have rightly said, you know, the most
13:26 interesting thing in our business is like our dependency on the Indian coal. So, we are seeing
13:33 there is a huge correction in the coal prices. So, we will definitely be beneficial.
13:38 And in the time to come also, you know, we are seeing the capacity in the coal India,
13:42 the supply of coal in our country is growing exponentially. So, I don't see any kind of
13:48 major correction further in the coal prices because I think today whatever
13:52 prices are there, it's almost at the very, very reasonable, you know, bottom level.
14:00 And in the time to come also for next one or two years, you know, at least for two years,
14:04 I don't see there's going to be a major change in the coal prices.
14:08 So, you're comfortable at these levels, is that right?
14:11 I feel so, you know, I feel so because, you know, we are totally dependent on the coal India
14:15 production and the… Yeah. So, if there is operational efficiency, there is an upside
14:20 risk to your margins then. That's a fair assumption if coal prices stays at these levels.
14:25 Yeah, but, you know, whenever the coal prices goes up, the prices of the metal also goes up.
14:30 So, there are… sometimes there is, but what we say that it's, you know, it's very sustainable and,
14:36 you know, very, very consistent margin business because, you know, maybe for 30 days or 60 days,
14:43 the cycle changes. But majorly, it doesn't have a big impact.
14:46 Okay. Also, very lastly, and I have to ask you this, any more acquisition on the cards? Because
14:51 at the pace you're growing and like you said, the demand is not going to stop anytime soon,
14:56 you're venturing into the EV business, there are PLI benefits that you're going to avail,
15:00 and your books are quite healthy. Any more acquisitions, anything that you're currently
15:04 eyeing, brownfield projects on the anvil? So, presently, not very serious on the table,
15:11 but yes, our media team is evaluating a lot of projects and we are seeing if there is any
15:17 strategic value what we can add to the investors and to the organization, then only we go more
15:25 deeper. But since we are seeing that we have a lot of capex, a lot of expansion for the next
15:31 two years, what we have already declared. So, not very, very serious, but yes, I would say
15:39 we are looking for a few acquisitions, but not majorly on the larger side,
15:44 mostly on the strategy side, and we are focusing more on our brownfields.
15:48 And no risk to delay in commissioning, right, at any of these capacities?
15:53 No, not at all. Okay, lovely. Thank you very much,
15:56 Sagarwal. Good luck with business. It's looking good for you. Enjoy this and we'll hopefully see
16:01 you soon.