A formerly feared army general who cultivated voters with his dancing skills is Indonesia’s likely next president. Louise Watt chats to Randy Mulyanto, a Jakarta-based freelance journalist, about the aftermath of Indonesia’s elections, the legacy of the country’s still-popular leader, Joko Widodo, and lesser known ethnically Chinese candidates.
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00:00 Hello, I'm Louise Watt and welcome to Correspondence, where we talk about the news and what's going
00:19 on behind the news with journalists around the region.
00:24 In Indonesia, Defence Minister Prabowo Subianto has claimed victory in presidential elections.
00:31 He's a former army general who turned himself into a cuddly grandfather figure during the
00:36 campaign.
00:37 But his presumed victory has led to fears that Indonesia, the world's third largest
00:42 democracy, could be backsliding on its democratic values.
00:47 To discuss this and more, today I'm joined by Randy Mulyanto, a freelance journalist
00:53 based in Jakarta.
00:55 Randy, welcome to the show.
00:56 Hi, good morning, Louise.
00:58 Now, could you start by telling us a little about this presumed winner?
01:03 Who is Prabowo Subianto?
01:04 Right, so Prabowo Subianto is Indonesia's current Defence Minister under the outgoing
01:10 President Joko Widodo administration.
01:13 He has basically become one of the most known politicians in the country.
01:18 So back in 2014 and 2019, he actually lost twice to the outgoing president, but now he
01:25 is one of the president's most trusted ministers.
01:30 And he's a bit of a controversial figure in Indonesia because of his past as a former
01:36 special forces army general.
01:38 Yeah, so he was related to the new order dictatorship.
01:42 He was the husband of one of the late dictator Suharto's daughters.
01:47 So obviously for many people, it is bringing lots, basically worries that he is going to
01:55 take the country slightly backwards in terms of the democratic governance.
02:00 But obviously it remains to be seen.
02:02 He's basically, you know, related to the dictatorship.
02:07 So obviously some Indonesians who lived through that era especially will definitely have some
02:12 concerns about that.
02:14 He was a feared general.
02:17 So has he changed or has he fooled everyone?
02:21 Or is it that a lot of voters just don't care about his past anymore?
02:25 If you ask people who lived through the dictatorship, obviously some do still believe that it's
02:31 just part of his persona.
02:32 It's just doing all of that for social media gimmicks.
02:35 But if you talk to young people, obviously they are not aware of that.
02:40 Many of them are not aware of the alleged abuses that he allegedly committed.
02:45 But basically with that being said, many Indonesians obviously have in other hopes job opportunities,
02:51 a stronger economy, and basically how they could prosper and thrive more in Indonesia.
02:57 I actually spoke with a few of Labo supporters in weeks leading up to the election.
03:02 One of the voters said he was the right candidate because he is firm, he's from the military,
03:08 he's one of President Joko Widodo's ministers.
03:12 And so he believes that as the continuity candidate for that, he's going to at least
03:17 believe to be able to take some of outgoing President Joko Widodo's policies still intact.
03:23 Half of voters, they were aged from 17 to 40.
03:29 So it was really about attracting the young vote.
03:34 And part of the reason that Prabowo was seen to reinvent himself was his use of TikTok
03:40 and Instagram.
03:41 He posted videos of himself dancing on stage.
03:45 He posted a video of him stroking a cat, which was seen to cultivate this cuddly grandfather
03:51 image, although I'm not sure if it looks more like a James Bond villain.
03:56 But how integral do you think social media was to his presumed victory?
04:01 I don't think social media is the only factor that has brought him the most votes in those
04:08 quick count results.
04:10 But I've seen a few comments on social media from TikTok users basically expressing their
04:17 admiration of Prabowo's cute character in those dance moves, with those social media
04:22 videos.
04:24 So I think that's one of the factors, and especially those who did not experience the
04:28 new order dictatorship, those who did not live throughout the era, obviously, perhaps
04:33 for them, again, Prabowo Subianto is one of President Jokowi's ministers.
04:37 So they believe that he's actually a good person to some.
04:41 Another factor seen in his presumed victory was the tacit support of the current president,
04:47 Joko Widodo, President Jokowi, you just mentioned him.
04:51 Now presidents aren't supposed to throw their support behind candidates in Indonesia.
04:56 But Jokowi's son was Prabowo's running mate.
05:00 Now if Jokowi had thrown his tacit support behind one of the other two candidates, do
05:06 you think that would have been a factor?
05:09 Would they have got elected?
05:11 Because Jokowi is still very popular.
05:14 That's right.
05:15 And his approval rating is over 60, over 70, even some say at around 80%.
05:21 He actually has been involved in developing parts of Indonesia through his infrastructure
05:26 development initiatives.
05:27 For example, if you go to the easternmost region of Papua, you'll realize that he's
05:31 actually done quite a lot of things throughout his almost 10 years in power.
05:36 As you say, he still has really good approval ratings, which is quite impressive given that
05:41 he's coming up to, well, he's in the twilight of his presidency, shall we say.
05:47 Some people have called him Asia's Barack Obama.
05:50 Why is that?
05:51 President Jokowi is Indonesia's first head of state, not from the political elite backgrounds.
05:58 He started everything as a furniture salesman and entrepreneur, and then he rose to the
06:03 ranks and became the governor of Jakarta before he won the presidency twice.
06:07 So many Indonesians saw him as someone who could bring drastic changes, lots of changes,
06:14 especially as he's not coming from the political elite background.
06:17 So he has lots of fresh ideas.
06:20 Infrastructure development is one of his successful outcomes of his presidency, if you will.
06:25 If you go to other parts of Indonesia, those outside Jakarta, you can see that he is trying
06:32 to build other parts of Indonesia more equally, not just focusing on Java.
06:38 But obviously, if you ask other Indonesians, many Indonesians will say that there were
06:44 a lot of regulations, controversial regulations passed under Jokowi's presidency, like the
06:51 jobs creation law, as well as what some would say as the weakening of Indonesia's corruption
06:56 eradication commission.
06:58 So there are both aspects of his presidency that we need to take into account.
07:05 And as Jokowi has thrown his unprecedented support, it seems, behind Prabowo, is he going
07:13 away after the elections?
07:14 Is he going to disappear when his successor takes office in October?
07:19 Or will he be there still behind the scenes somehow?
07:23 I believe that will be the case because, you know, Indonesia's past presidents, I mean,
07:27 although they're no longer in the presidential palace, they will still be around.
07:32 For example, the former president Megawati Sukarno Putri is still very much the leader
07:38 of one of Indonesia's largest political parties.
07:42 And you mentioned there, Randy, Jokowi, his big infrastructure projects and program, and
07:48 a lot of that was financed with Chinese money.
07:52 And something Jokowi is seen to have done is balance relations with both China and the
07:58 United States.
07:59 Now, Prabowo, just four days after the elections and him declaring victory, he hosted at his
08:07 residence the Chinese ambassador to Indonesia, Liu Kang.
08:11 They posed for photos and there's that cat again.
08:16 But what do you see are the early signs of where will Prabowo go when it comes to deepening
08:22 relations with Washington or Beijing?
08:26 I think the key word here is continuity because, you know, Indonesia under President Jokowi
08:31 Dodo has tried to maintain good relations with both the world's two superpowers, really.
08:38 So in terms of Jakarta-Beijing ties, for example, we've seen that China has invested heavily
08:46 in Indonesia.
08:47 China has taken part in building the Jakarta-Bandung high-speed rail, for example, as well as other
08:53 several projects in Indonesia.
08:56 There are Chinese companies here, but for the U.S., obviously, Indonesia has military
09:01 exercises with the United States and several other countries, for example.
09:05 So Indonesia is trying to make as many friends as possible, you know, that is trying to balance
09:10 the ties between the two.
09:12 It wasn't just the presidential elections that have taken place.
09:16 Almost 10,000 people were competing to be lawmakers in Indonesia's parliament.
09:22 There's 580 seats there.
09:25 Your reporting honed in on ethnic Chinese Indonesians who are about 1% of Indonesia's
09:33 population.
09:35 How much representation do they have?
09:38 Well, before 2000, obviously, I think it was very, very minor.
09:44 But after the fall of the dictator, the late dictator Suharto, you know, things have changed
09:49 for the better for the ethnic Chinese communities.
09:52 You know, these days you will see a lot of, you know, more, I'm not saying that significantly
09:58 a lot, but basically, you know, there have been more and more ethnic Chinese individuals
10:04 decided to, OK, we want to run for parliament, for example.
10:08 And we've seen several ethnic Chinese MPs and, you know, several ethnic Chinese government
10:14 ministers.
10:15 So their faces, I think the political representation is getting more visible there.
10:21 And I think that's a good thing for Indonesia.
10:25 It has always this, you know, a model of unity and diversity.
10:30 And if you want to grow a country, you need people from every kind of possible background,
10:35 you know, to take part in developing it.
10:37 And what kind of issues were they running on?
10:40 One of them was part of, one of them ran with a part of the Labour Party.
10:45 Basically, she wants more better working conditions for Indonesia's white collar and blue collar
10:51 workers.
10:52 Another one ran with Perindo Party, and he wants to make Indonesia a more attractive
10:57 destination for foreign investments, as well as trying to impose more taxes on imported
11:05 products from abroad so that Indonesians could actually have a competitive advantage.
11:11 Randy, thanks so much for joining us today.
11:15 It's been great speaking to you.
11:17 And thanks to you for watching.
11:19 This has been Correspondence.
11:20 We hope to see you next time.
11:21 We hope to see you next time.
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