The cast of Ryan Coogler’s “Black Panther: Wakanda Forever,” including Danai Gurira (Okoye), Alex Livinalli (Attuma) Mabel Cadena (Namora), Producer Nate Moore, and the famed director himself are here to discuss making the epic Marvel sequel. Watch as they discuss filming the emotional and powerful scenes with stars Angela Bassett and Tenoch Huerta, where this film sits in the MCU’s timeline, and what’s next for the characters and Coogler himself.
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00:00 One, two, three.
00:02 Leaking telecon!
00:04 [LAUGHTER]
00:06 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:09 Show them who we are.
00:15 So just going into this story, I'm
00:18 curious just how far you went as far as determining
00:21 what has been happening in Wakanda
00:24 basically since the first Black Panther film
00:27 up until this point.
00:29 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:30 Yeah, that's something Joe and I had to sit down and talk
00:34 with Nate about.
00:34 It's just kind of establishing that back story
00:39 because we need to know it for ourselves,
00:42 but also our actors are very serious about their craft.
00:47 That's going to be the first thing they ask,
00:49 when they show up, like, all right, so what's been happening?
00:51 Where am I at?
00:51 You know?
00:53 And we decided that after T'Challa and Shuri were snapped
01:03 away by Thanos and all the damage that
01:04 happened in the invasion of Wakanda by Thanos' army,
01:08 that the vacant seat on the throne
01:12 was determined to be occupied by Ramon.
01:16 So that decision went a very long way
01:21 and led to the conflict between Ramon and Nakia.
01:28 It caused Nakia to leave.
01:29 So that decision right there started to inform more.
01:35 Like, because there is a one-year time jump in this film,
01:37 but when does this film take place?
01:39 Do you know specifically?
01:40 Oh, boy, in sort of a year's?
01:42 Like, I couldn't tell you.
01:44 I could tell you where it sits in the other movies,
01:46 because we try to do it somewhat chronologically.
01:48 But if you asked me-- if you held a gun to my head,
01:50 honestly, I probably would get it wrong.
01:52 So where do you say between the movies, then?
01:54 Yeah, I mean, look, if you think about, like, this movie
01:58 clearly happens after "No Way Home" and "Eternals."
02:02 I think it probably happens potentially
02:04 concurrent with "Thor."
02:06 "New Asgard" does exist in our universe, for instance,
02:09 or in our film, and almost concurrent with "Ant-Man
02:13 and the Lost Quantumania," which is coming
02:14 out in February, March, a few months.
02:17 So in the run-up to production and during--
02:19 while you were filming, what were the kind of conversations
02:22 that you were having with Ryan Coogler about kind
02:24 of the journey that Okoye is on, both what we didn't see
02:28 before this film and during?
02:31 Yeah, there was lots of conversations around, you know,
02:34 her arc and how we get it there and the journey that she's on.
02:39 We knew there was going to be quite a drastic thing that
02:42 happened to her in this film and, you know,
02:45 what that was really about, what was underneath that.
02:48 You know, her-- very much her position,
02:51 because there's a lot of elements of where grief is
02:56 and how it's hitting different members of this ensemble
03:00 in different ways.
03:01 So where exactly does it hit her,
03:04 and how is she handling it?
03:05 And, you know, she's a very control--
03:08 in control type of person and likes
03:12 to be that way, obviously she's handling
03:13 the protection of the nation.
03:15 So it's really understanding how that translates
03:18 into what she ends up doing, because she's a doer,
03:21 to feel that control maintained.
03:24 But is she taking care of herself?
03:26 So all those things were very much discussed all the time.
03:30 And just the tiny elements of what she would say,
03:32 what she wouldn't say, all those little things about what
03:34 comes out of her mouth was always something
03:36 we explored very, very, very, very thoroughly.
03:40 I love that you know the character that well
03:42 over this amount of time, too, that you can do that.
03:44 I'm curious, did you talk about the relationship with W'Kabi
03:48 and what has happened with Okoye and him since--
03:51 We did. We did.
03:51 I can't go into too many details.
03:52 You would ask my director about that whole thing.
03:56 But we definitely did.
03:58 There was stuff that, you know, we didn't end up doing,
04:01 but we definitely did.
04:03 Yeah, he's-- there's a--
04:07 he's basically banished, but still in Wakanda's borders.
04:12 Oh, OK.
04:13 Yeah, if that makes sense.
04:14 Yeah.
04:15 So, yeah, so it's one line that refers
04:17 to him still being alive.
04:18 Mm-hmm.
04:19 Yeah, I was curious about that.
04:20 Yeah.
04:21 And one question-- one scene that I specifically
04:23 wanted to ask about is actually the scene
04:25 where W'Kabi is brought up.
04:26 It's the scene with you and Angela
04:28 Bassett in the throne room, because there
04:31 are some heavy emotions there, and from both sides.
04:34 And you can understand where both of them are coming from.
04:36 I'm just curious what it was like on set
04:38 and just sharing that moment with Angela Bassett.
04:41 It was amazing.
04:42 It was intense.
04:43 It was a lot of--
04:44 it was a very intense and exhausting day.
04:48 My character is exhausted.
04:50 She is, of course, unex--
04:52 she doesn't-- she's horrified at her failings,
04:55 and she doesn't expect even the results to be as dire
04:59 as it is at the same time.
05:01 So it's a lot that's going on for her in that scene.
05:03 And this relationship between her and the queen
05:06 is very-- is more than dear to her.
05:08 So there's that as well that's stirring in her.
05:12 But the beauty of it all is that working with the people
05:16 I get to work with, I'm blessed enough to work with, is we--
05:19 sometimes I say it's because a lot of us are from theater,
05:21 but that's not right to say, necessarily.
05:24 But we just give each other everything we've got.
05:27 It doesn't matter who the camera's focused on.
05:29 So that was a day where I really was so thankful for all
05:32 of our ensemble, because when the camera was on her,
05:37 I was giving her everything I had.
05:38 And when the camera was on me, she
05:39 was giving me everything she had.
05:41 It didn't matter.
05:42 And that's when you're-- you know you're in good company.
05:46 When you just-- that's just what we naturally do for each other.
05:49 We live in the story as many times
05:51 as necessary to deliver the story as fully
05:55 as we possibly can.
05:57 Have I not given everything?
06:00 Everything you want, we got it all.
06:03 When it came to Atuma and Namora,
06:05 like when you were first getting into the characters,
06:07 what was it about them that you just personally really
06:09 honed into at first and kind of wanted to express
06:12 through your performances?
06:13 I think the story.
06:15 The story how, you know, being--
06:19 she's from Mexico, I was born in Venezuela.
06:22 And the representation that we're bringing, you know,
06:25 in the story, you see this group of people
06:28 diving into the ocean in search of a better life.
06:33 So I think we can all somewhat imagine or have seen that here
06:38 on the stage, just people coming here in search of a better
06:41 life, the American dream.
06:43 And being part of that is such an honor,
06:46 to represent diversity, to give a chance
06:49 to people in South America, Central America,
06:51 to see themselves.
06:53 Hey, like, hey, they look like us.
06:54 They talk like us.
06:55 They have accents like us.
06:57 And in some ways, you know, inspire them.
07:00 You know, if we can inspire at least one person, yeah.
07:04 You know, to me, at the beginning, it was like,
07:07 well, I'm an actress.
07:09 I need to focus on my process.
07:11 I need to work a lot for representing with dignity
07:15 to the women, and to Mexican women,
07:19 to Latin American women.
07:21 And two days ago, when I watched the movie for the first time,
07:26 to me, was like, in my stomach.
07:28 It's like, whoa.
07:30 What means the representation?
07:33 I don't have enough words, but that.
07:37 What I feel it's to me means this movie.
07:41 It's like, wow.
07:42 I feel for the first time what it means.
07:47 Watch my face in a superhero movie for the first time.
07:51 Because it's not just a superhero movie.
07:53 It's a lot for people like me, you know?
07:56 Change my life in every detail, personal detail.
08:02 I don't know.
08:03 I also just want to also ask about just working
08:05 with Tenoch Huerta, because I mean,
08:07 Calcan is like an incredible character that people--
08:10 I mean, obviously, there's the legend,
08:12 but also Namor from the comics.
08:14 What was it kind of like working with him,
08:15 and just developing the dynamics between your characters?
08:19 It's so beautiful to see the growth that we all
08:22 had together from our first day, whether it
08:24 was the stunt training, the language training, the water
08:27 training, to see each of us just growth into training,
08:32 to shooting, to actually seeing it.
08:34 It's such a bonding moment that, you know,
08:37 these are not my co-stars.
08:39 These are like family members that we spent so much time.
08:42 And it was difficult. It was nothing easy.
08:45 And that adversity, I think, made us even closer.
08:50 And I'm very happy to be here next to her
08:52 and have worked with Tenoch, you know?
08:54 And we work-- Tenoch, Alex, and me work a lot for--
09:01 I don't know-- one year training together every day for that.
09:08 For that movie.
09:09 It's crazy.
09:11 We're a tripod.
09:13 That's amazing.
09:14 One of the most exciting things about this film
09:16 is the fact that you're introducing Namor,
09:17 which is a character that fans have
09:18 been waiting for forever.
09:20 Is this-- was this always the film
09:22 that he was going to be introduced?
09:23 Or were there, like, considerations
09:24 of introducing him earlier?
09:26 That's a good question.
09:27 I actually think this is the first time
09:28 we seriously considered it.
09:29 And it was something that Ryan had pitched
09:32 in post on the first movie.
09:34 Hey, if we get to do a sequel, which was an if,
09:37 I would love to tackle Namor.
09:39 Because he's such a compelling character.
09:41 Ryan is a fan of publishing and Namor
09:44 and in publishing Atlantis.
09:45 And Wakanda have had such great conflicts in the past.
09:48 He was really interested in exploring
09:49 that in a potential sequel.
09:50 But I can't say that I remember another property before this
09:55 where that was a real consideration.
09:56 Yeah, I love that you got to save it for him, basically.
09:58 That's awesome. - Totally.
09:59 Yeah, we went through a lot of iterations of Namor.
10:03 But they always had that at the core.
10:06 Like, the idea that he feels like it's
10:09 only a matter of time before he comes in conflict
10:12 with the other people that they have at the planet.
10:14 Like any wise leader or general or anybody.
10:18 You know what I mean?
10:19 He knows that your chances of victory
10:21 improve if you can throw the first punch, so to speak.
10:25 So that's where he is.
10:28 And Namor in the comics, he's very pragmatic.
10:31 You know?
10:34 And also, has a distaste for people
10:39 from that part of the world.
10:40 Sir.
10:41 Yeah.
10:42 Was that big question of just the ethics of that,
10:45 was that the heart of the movie where
10:47 you started the plot from?
10:48 No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
10:50 Not at all.
10:51 I think that--
10:52 I think it's more like when we knew that we set along
11:01 this idea of the underwater empire being influenced
11:05 by the culture of the classic, post-classic Mayan civilizations
11:09 of the Yucatan.
11:11 When we made that decision, we realized that, OK,
11:14 these are people who had a very specific history when it came
11:23 to other people from far away and what happened to them.
11:27 And how does that influence their views?
11:30 Whereas Wakanda's history with the other people,
11:35 they've been less affected.
11:38 And that contrast, I thought, would be an interesting place
11:41 to start.
11:42 It was less about who's down to do a preemptive strike or not.
11:47 And more about this idea of proven vulnerability.
11:51 You know what I mean?
11:51 Like when things have happened to you in the past,
11:54 you kind of never stop feeling vulnerable.
11:56 You know what I mean?
11:58 I think that's the key difference that the film is
12:03 kind of talking about here.
12:04 Sir, absolutely.
12:05 Yeah.
12:06 We know what you whisper.
12:08 And they have lost their protector.
12:13 Well, actually, one scene I wanted to specifically ask
12:15 about kind of within that realm is the rise
12:17 of the Holocon scene.
12:18 Because it is so passionate.
12:19 I'm curious just-- - He caught that.
12:21 Yeah, of course.
12:22 He caught that.
12:22 He caught that.
12:24 I mean, what was it like, I mean,
12:25 both to film it and see it on the big screen?
12:30 That was not part of the original script.
12:33 You know, it was a consensuous thing
12:35 that we were like, you know, the Black Panther,
12:40 you know, they have Wakandan forever.
12:42 And it's so powerful.
12:43 We need something.
12:44 We need so much.
12:45 And we're like, we're very similar to the Wakandans,
12:48 you know?
12:49 We need something.
12:51 So after a conversation with a language instructor,
12:56 we came up with "Talocan Rises," which is--
13:01 1, 2, 3.
13:04 Leaking Talocan!
13:07 Which is like, yeah, we're here.
13:09 This is our montage, so to speak, you know?
13:12 Let's go.
13:13 Yeah.
13:14 You know, our approach to it--
13:17 and there's a lot of--
13:19 man, a lot of phenomenal creatives
13:21 that had their hands realized in Talocan, you know,
13:26 not just me and Joe, but in the actors,
13:28 and Hannah Buechler and Ruth Carter,
13:32 the visual development department at Marvel,
13:35 led by Ryan Meinerding.
13:36 And like, once we got in there, you know,
13:39 like in terms of making the movie,
13:42 it was really about like, what's the right amount to show
13:46 in this Black Panther movie, you know?
13:49 Less is more, I think, you know what I mean?
13:50 Like, we wanted just enough to understand what we need people
13:57 to understand for the story to work for them,
13:59 and not trying to do too much, because the film--
14:03 you know, I don't know if the film could hold too much.
14:04 You know what I'm saying?
14:05 It already has so much--
14:06 so many other things to hold.
14:09 So I think by doing that, that leaves--
14:10 that leaves the door open for whatever comes next.
14:14 For sure.
14:15 And I mean, speaking of also new characters,
14:17 I mean, Riri Williams is such a wonderful spark.
14:19 And I'm just instantly excited for Ironheart
14:22 to be here just immediately.
14:24 I'm curious just what the coordination was
14:25 between the productions and just like--
14:28 also, and how much of this movie is going to kind of set up
14:30 what we see in that show.
14:31 Yeah, no, I mean, that show is an outgrowth of how much
14:35 we liked her in this movie, and even on the page.
14:38 So when we talked with Dominique initially,
14:41 obviously the character had been written to the script.
14:43 And she was the one and only person
14:46 we talked about for the role.
14:48 And when she said yes, and we were down the road
14:52 with the script, we also started talking to Ryan
14:54 about what the show could be.
14:55 So the show is a direct sequel to the movie.
14:58 So Riri is carrying the experiences
15:00 she had in this movie into-- back to-- back home to MIT.
15:04 And there's some interesting repercussions to her adventures
15:06 that will set her on a fun course.
15:09 Fans have obviously very much embraced
15:11 what you have contributed to the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
15:13 And there has been a lot of talk about the idea of you
15:16 potentially taking on one of the like bigger capstone
15:19 Avenger Marvel projects.
15:20 Right.
15:21 I'm curious if that's something that you're
15:22 personally interested in.
15:24 Um, yeah, yeah, that's a great question.
15:28 How I work, you know, like personally,
15:32 and hopefully there's no offense, like I can--
15:37 as a writer and director, I can only like do what's in front.
15:42 You know what I'm saying?
15:43 And I got a--
15:44 I'm very poor at multitasking when it comes to that.
15:48 I've never really been successful at multitasking.
15:52 Usually if I'm like trying to figure out something else
15:54 while I'm doing something, the thing I'm doing suffers,
15:56 you know?
15:57 So I like to stay focused on this,
15:59 get this movie out into the world.
16:01 Then I'll start thinking about like what I want to do next,
16:04 if anything, anytime soon, you know?
16:07 A lot went into this one.
16:08 Sure.
16:09 Yeah, it's-- and like I said, an absolutely incredible work.
16:11 Man, thank you.
16:12 Thank you, for sure.
16:13 It means a lot.
16:14 [MUSIC PLAYING]
16:14 Now is our time to strike.
16:19 [MUSIC PLAYING]
16:23 I've heard that you actually got the opportunity
16:35 to take a spear home.
16:36 But one question I want to ask--
16:37 I just took it.
16:38 You just took it?
16:39 This didn't actually ask anybody?
16:40 No, they knew.
16:41 They knew.
16:42 Props-- I mean, the guys who handle the props knew, yeah.
16:44 Well, now that we're getting to Halloween, I am curious,
16:47 have you ever considered taking the full-on Dora Milaj uniform?
16:51 No, no, no.
16:52 I think that's in a museum down the road, actually.
16:55 My actual uniform--
16:58 I know that that's--
17:00 it's in that museum.
17:01 So I don't know if I could take that home, but--
17:03 Heist.
17:04 Huh?
17:05 You can set up a heist.
17:06 Ha, ha, ha.
17:06 That's funny.
17:07 But yeah, no.
17:08 I think it's-- I like that it lives out there in its own way.
17:11 It's good.
17:12 As it should.
17:14 [BLANK_AUDIO]